Hey numbnuts(es)! Stop setting up automatic deduction from your bank accounts

[crazyjoe]

Seriously, if I read one more pit thread in which someone complains because X company automatically deducted money from their bank account without their consent after service was cancelled, I think I'll go into fits of laughter.

Set up automated payments FROM your bank account TO the provider, but never give them the ability to auto-deduct. They should not have authorization, EVER to deduct stuff directly from your bank account.

Yes, I learned this lesson the hard way a coulpe years ago. Yes I was a numbnut at the time. I am now a reformed numbnut, who sets up bills to either hit a charge/credit card, or uses bill pay from the bank to send payments. Never the other way around.

If the only way a company will deal with you is by giving them access to your checking account, that is not a company you need to be dealing with.

This educational message provided to you by crazyjoe.

[Una Persson]

And how about this bit - when your utility or credit card company screams at you every month GO PAPERLESS GO PAPERLESS IT'S THE WAY OF THE FUTURE ONLY FAGGOTS AND SAILORS STILL GET PAPER STATEMENTS - AND I DON'T SEE ANY JAUNTY CAP ON YOU, SUNSHINE, for the love of God do not let them send you paperless. All it takes is one spam filter set too high or changed, one hiccup in e-mail, one whatever, and you could miss your statement and end up with late fees. Or you could be like a friend of mine, who was fired from her job and had to try to contact 20 different billing agencies that her e-mail was no longer valid before she started being charged outrageous late fees - much hilarity ensued and the process took MONTHS, as several of the companies were locked in a circle-jerk clusterfuck loop of "to change your e-mail on record, please e-mail us from the old account..." :rolleyes:

And if you get sent paperless on accident, call them up and sit on the phone with Sanjay or Pratihba or whoever and demand that they re-enable the paper statements.

[howye]

And how about this bit - when your utility or credit card company screams at you every month GO PAPERLESS GO PAPERLESS IT'S THE WAY OF THE FUTURE ONLY FAGGOTS AND SAILORS STILL GET PAPER STATEMENTS - AND I DON'T SEE ANY JAUNTY CAP ON YOU, SUNSHINE, for the love of God do not let them send you paperless. All it takes is one spam filter set too high or changed, one hiccup in e-mail, one whatever, and you could miss your statement and end up with late fees. Or you could be like a friend of mine, who was fired from her job and had to try to contact 20 different billing agencies that her e-mail was no longer valid before she started being charged outrageous late fees - much hilarity ensued and the process took MONTHS, as several of the companies were locked in a circle-jerk clusterfuck loop of "to change your e-mail on record, please e-mail us from the old account..." :rolleyes:

And if you get sent paperless on accident, call them up and sit on the phone with Sanjay or Pratihba or whoever and demand that they re-enable the paper statements.

What the fuck was your friend doing using a work email address as the contact point for personal accounts? That is just one of the dumbest fucking things I have heard today. Plus, in regards to spam filters, that is pretty much bullshit. After the first billing, add the address the statement comes from to your contacts and tell your spam filter what it is AND keep track of your monthly bills. If I pay my bills and don't send money to gas company, I don't think that will I just don't owe them anything this month. If you don't know what bills you should be getting each month, then the format in which they come makes little difference.

Otherwise, I agree with the OP. Why would you allow a company to pull money out of an asset account? Even if for no other reason than to be prepared for the month when everything goes to hell and you need to skip a payment.

[Really Not All That Bright]

What the fuck was your friend doing using a work email address as the contact point for personal accounts? That is just one of the dumbest fucking things I have heard today.
This.

[tomndebb]

What the fuck was your friend doing using a work email address as the contact point for personal accounts?
I do not see that in Una's post.

I read it that, having been fired, the person could not afford to maintain her e-mail account, (even free e-mail requires an ISP--and those have not been free for anything reliable for five years, or so--and libraries are not really good places to maintain one's financial on-line activities).

[DianaG]

I think that's probably an overly generous reading. I know lots of people who use work email addresses for that sort of thing. Just because it's stupid doesn't mean that lots of people don't do it.

[Una Persson]

Plus, in regards to spam filters, that is pretty much bullshit. After the first billing, add the address the statement comes from to your contacts and tell your spam filter what it is AND keep track of your monthly bills.
Gosh, is that how e-mail works? And here I've been, using e-mail since Ronald Wilson Motherfucking Reagan was in office, and I never knew.

And you're pretty much speaking bullshit, because it happens all the time to me. Every day I have to fish legitimate e-mails out of my spam folder when something changes that the system doesn't like.

If I pay my bills and don't send money to gas company, I don't think that will I just don't owe them anything this month. If you don't know what bills you should be getting each month, then the format in which they come makes little difference.
No shit? I mean really, no shit? If people know what bills are supposed to be coming when then obviously there's no problem. The average American (and from what I've seen, more than a few Dopers) is a financial dumbass of breathtaking proportions. They need reminders for bills. Hellfire and damnation, some of them need reminders to fucking breathe.

As regards the e-mail thing, she had e-mail through her cable company and when she dropped cable TV to save money, she lost her e-mail account (so she was lazy, my Mom still uses her Time Warner e-mail, because they make it "convenient", etc.) She swears that she had in writing that the account would still be active even without the cable account, but apparently she was mistaken or they were. And so fucking what if she had a totally free account? I've also had a Hotmail account "vanish" on me once that I was never able to get back into, even sitting on the phone with technical support from Hotmail. The point is don't fucking rely on electronic mail exclusively over snail mail when finances are involved.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Ronald Reagan was President?

[Una Persson]

I think that's probably an overly generous reading.
Incorrect. Tom was right on the mark.
I know lots of people who use work email addresses for that sort of thing. Just because it's stupid doesn't mean that lots of people don't do it.
Exactly. So the solution is...either rely on another electronic mail provider, or refuse to go paperless (ideally, do both).
Ronald Reagan was President?
Subsequent to him being an astronaut and prior to him being a carpenter. He was also exactly 6 feet tall, the only man on Earth since roughly 30 A.D.

[LonesomePolecat]

I do not see that in Una's post.

I read it that, having been fired, the person could not afford to maintain her e-mail account, (even free e-mail requires an ISP--and those have not been free for anything reliable for five years, or so--and libraries are not really good places to maintain one's financial on-line activities).Nitpick: You can get dial-up service for as little as five bucks a month. (Admittedly, they're very bare bones, and you'd better be prepared to do any troubleshooting yourself.) Anyone who can't afford a cheap dial-up account probably can't afford checking accounts and credit card accounts either.

[howye]

Gosh, is that how e-mail works? And here I've been, using e-mail since Ronald Wilson Motherfucking Reagan was in office, and I never knew.

And you're pretty much speaking bullshit, because it happens all the time to me. Every day I have to fish legitimate e-mails out of my spam folder when something changes that the system doesn't like.


No shit? I mean really, no shit? If people know what bills are supposed to be coming when then obviously there's no problem. The average American (and from what I've seen, more than a few Dopers) is a financial dumbass of breathtaking proportions. They need reminders for bills. Hellfire and damnation, some of them need reminders to fucking breathe.

As regards the e-mail thing, she had e-mail through her cable company and when she dropped cable TV to save money, she lost her e-mail account (so she was lazy, my Mom still uses her Time Warner e-mail, because they make it "convenient", etc.) She swears that she had in writing that the account would still be active even without the cable account, but apparently she was mistaken or they were. And so fucking what if she had a totally free account? I've also had a Hotmail account "vanish" on me once that I was never able to get back into, even sitting on the phone with technical support from Hotmail. The point is don't fucking rely on electronic mail exclusively over snail mail when finances are involved.

You could have been using email since Jesus Christ was in diapers, but you seem unable to use a spam filter correctly or perhaps you should get a new spam filter or service. Your long experience as using email does not apparently making you fucking expert. On a rare occasion I have to remove something from my spam folder and mark it as not spam. At which point my service has never sent email from that address to the spam folder again. Plus, I see that the little spam folder is all boldy and highlighty and I can see there is an email in it, I go look and see if it is relevant.

Yup, I get reminders for my bills. Which I ignore. I have spreadsheet separate from an email account and from financial software. As I pay a bill each month, a little check mark goes next to that entry in the sheet. My point is that if the only way you know to pay somebody is through an email reminder, you need some help with money.

As to your friend, I partially withdraw my statement in her case. Although I will contend that using the email address provided by your internet provider to be almost as stupid, mostly because of the trouble she had. This is not such an obvious problem for most people and they will find out the error of their ways when it is too late. Don't rely on email or paper mail when it comes to finances.

[Una Persson]

You could have been using email since Jesus Christ was in diapers, but you seem unable to use a spam filter correctly or perhaps you should get a new spam filter or service.
I don't have that option because I'm an adult dying slowly at a paying job, where many IT matters such as spam filter settings are locked-down, handled by nameless, faceless individuals in a far-off land, where palm trees sway gently in tropical breezes and tigers prowl the city streets searching for tasty monkeys to snack upon.
Your long experience as using email does not apparently making you fucking expert.
Perhaps your short experience has not served you in the capacity that you might believe it has.

Yup, I get reminders for my bills. Which I ignore. I have spreadsheet separate from an email account and from financial software. As I pay a bill each month, a little check mark goes next to that entry in the sheet. My point is that if the only way you know to pay somebody is through an email reminder, you need some help with money.
I concur, but there's the difference between ideal and reality.

As to your friend, I partially withdraw my statement in her case. Although I will contend that using the email address provided by your internet provider to be almost as stupid, mostly because of the trouble she had. This is not such an obvious problem for most people and they will find out the error of their ways when it is too late. Don't rely on email or paper mail when it comes to finances.
I think that was my point, excepting that I trust paper much more than e-mail.

[Cat Whisperer]

I've avoided going paperless because the utility companies won't deal with me because I'm a woman, but you've given me another good reason. :)

[Sunspace]

I've avoided going paperless because the utility companies won't deal with me because I'm a woman, but you've given me another good reason. :)[bolding mine] Say what? Is anyone beyond the lowest rung of sleazeball used-car salesmen still pulling that kind of sexist crap in this day and age?

[Miller]

Ronald Reagan was President?

The actor?

[Martini Enfield]

I don't have that option because I'm an adult dying slowly at a paying job, where many IT matters such as spam filter settings are locked-down, handled by nameless, faceless individuals in a far-off land, where palm trees sway gently in tropical breezes and tigers prowl the city streets searching for tasty monkeys to snack upon.

Your IT department is in Thailand? :D

[gravitycrash]

[Please print this page out for your records]. Um no. Printer ink is expensive and I'm cheap, they can print out the paper trail on their dime. :cool:

[Una Persson]

Your IT department is in Thailand? :D
Either that or Bendigo.

[Martini Enfield]

Either that or Bendigo.

Bendigo is in Victoria and there are neither palm trees, tigers, or monkeys there. Sorry to disappoint you. ;)

[Cat Whisperer]

[bolding mine] Say what? Is anyone beyond the lowest rung of sleazeball used-car salesmen still pulling that kind of sexist crap in this day and age?
Sorry, I mis-spoke myself; utility companies won't deal with me because I'm a wife.

[Una Persson]

Bendigo is in Victoria and there are neither palm trees, tigers, or monkeys there. Sorry to disappoint you. ;)
I'm just name dropping is all.

[Martini Enfield]

I'm just name dropping is all.

Personally I prefer the image of Roy, Moss, and Jen (from The IT Crowd) lying in hammocks on a beach in Thailand, sipping cocktails from coconuts with umbrellas and fruit garnish, watching the monkeys scamper playfully away from the tigers roaming about. I'm sure you'll agree that's a far better mental image than an IT department located in an office in regional Victoria. :D

[BigT]

Sorry, I mis-spoke myself; utility companies won't deal with me because I'm a wife.

Is that because you have to put your husband on the account? My mom always wound up putting her name on everything because my dad is horrible on the phone.

[kaylasdad99]

I've avoided going paperless because the utility companies won't deal with me because I'm a woman, but you've given me another good reason. :)I've avoided going paperless because I work for the USPS. :)

[billfish678]

nevermind

[Enderw24]

I've avoided going paperless because I work for the USPS. :)

I avoid going paperless because my father is the Once-ler.

[Chessic Sense]

Why would you allow a company to pull money out of an asset account?

Because when left to my own resources, I forget to pay it, and it ends up costing me in late fees. I'm usually very intelligent with money, but for some reason, I...just...can't....pay bills on time. So I let the company do it for me.

[billfish678]

Because when left to my own resources, I forget to pay it, and it ends up costing me in late fees. I'm usually very intelligent with money, but for some reason, I...just...can't....pay bills on time. So I let the company do it for me.

You know who else can't remember to pay bills on time?

Pansies :)

Off to financial boot camp for you!

[teela brown]

The actor?

Yeah, right. Who was vice president? Jerry Lewis?

[Scarlett67]

Sorry, I mis-spoke myself; utility companies won't deal with me because I'm a wife.

No shit. But they cheerfully accept payment out of an account that has only MY name on it. Fuckers.

[Dangerosa]

Your IT department is in Thailand? :D

Ours is.

And in our house the bills come in my husband's name. He has to add me to the account for me to talk to them (and I do all the bills). And sometimes when he adds me it works and then I can talk to them, but mostly when he adds me the next time I call I'm told I'm not "authorized" and the nonsense starts again.

(Bills are in his name because I was a single woman who lived alone and had a bad stalking experience before I married. I don't want a female name on my mail).

[kaylasdad99]

So change your name to Fred.



ETA: :D :p

[Apex Rogers]

Because when left to my own resources, I forget to pay it, and it ends up costing me in late fees. I'm usually very intelligent with money, but for some reason, I...just...can't....pay bills on time. So I let the company do it for me.

Same here. But the alternative is to set up bill payment from your own bank account instead of leaving the control with the company. The point is to keep the control in your hands, so when you cancel service, the company can't just keep accessing your account.

[[Undecided] Adrian]

Can't you cancel a deduction in the US? In Germany that's no problem at all, and you get the money back.

[Dangerosa]

So change your name to Fred.



ETA: :D :p

I could just go by my own unisex diminutive. But at this point his name has been on the bills for over 15 years, and before the whole privacy act, it wasn't an issue. And if they can't add me, I'm not sure how I'd manage to get them to change the bills into my name.

[LunarPlexus]

I've avoided going paperless because I work for the USPS. :)

Could you talk to somebody? I went paperless because there is only an 80% chance that anything mailed to me actually gets delivered. Unless it's junk mail. That they manage to deliver by the cartload.

[Glory]

Yup, I get reminders for my bills. Which I ignore. I have spreadsheet separate from an email account and from financial software. As I pay a bill each month, a little check mark goes next to that entry in the sheet. My point is that if the only way you know to pay somebody is through an email reminder, you need some help with money.


I don't have anything as elaborate as a spreadsheet, but I know all the bills I pay per month and when they are due. Every bill I pay arrives by mid month. If I didn't get a bill for some reason, I'd just call the company and ask what I owed. It's being financially responsible!

[crazyjoe]

Sorry, I mis-spoke myself; utility companies won't deal with me because I'm a wife.

This is true. It's dumb, but true. My wife's name is on our phone bill, she moved into our house before we got married and set up all the utilities, so they are all in her name. And I never have a problem talking to them, because I'm the husband. But lord knows how many times I watched my mom tell my dad he had to call someone or other, because they didn't consider her to be authorized on the account.

[Cat Whisperer]

I understand their reasoning (don't want a bitter ex-wife calling up and cancelling her ex-husband's cable, now do we?), but still, there's got to be a better way than no wife can ever do anything on the family utility accounts without her husband putting a notarized letter on the account or something. When we moved, Jim added my name to all the accounts, but I have a feeling that I'm still going to run into trouble next time I need to call up and talk to someone, judging from how excellently they changed our address (into gibberish).

[crazyjoe]

Apparently it's OK for me to cancel all my wife's stuff, though....and we don't even have the same last name. As long as I can confirm the acct number and the billing address (which I could get by stealing her mail) I get to make whatever changes I want.

[The Devil's Grandmother]

Apparently it's OK for me to cancel all my wife's stuff, though....and we don't even have the same last name. As long as I can confirm the acct number and the billing address (which I could get by stealing her mail) I get to make whatever changes I want.

Behold, the mighty power of the Penis!
I gotta get me one of those!

[Monty]

crazyjoe: What do you think about my favorite "Huh?" stunt? The employee sets up direct deposit of his salary to a bank and then, without informing his employer, closes the bank account!

[Doughbag]

Lot's of shit works here over direct debit.
However it is very usefull for a phone bill, since it's different everytime. I also don't forget to pay it and get charged late fees.
If you cancle/quit something, you just go to your bank and cancle the damn thing, simple.

[Cat Whisperer]

Behold, the mighty power of the Penis!
I gotta get me one of those!
No kidding.

[LunarPlexus]

Behold, the mighty power of the Penis!
I gotta get me one of those!

I have one hanging around that doesn't get much use - maybe we could work something out.

[Autolycus]

Yeah, right. Who was vice president? Jerry Lewis?

I suppose Jane Wyman is the First Lady!

[Cicero]

Direct debits piss me off to the extent that they (say my ISP) can charge as much as they like to my account. I far prefer paying them money than trying to retrieve money from that pack of bastards.

Thanks Crazyjoe for your educational message.

[kbear]

Sorry, I mis-spoke myself; utility companies won't deal with me because I'm a wife.

and does it take your husband at least three months to get around to calling to sort out every little problem? :-/

[PunditLisa]

If you do online banking, you don't have worry about not receiving a bill if you change email addresses. The biller is responsible for sending it to your online bank in sufficient time to pay it within a reasonable amount of time. You just click on "pay balance" and it pre-fills in the due date. Click "pay now" and you're done. You can access it from anywhere with an internet connection, so it's super convenient.

You do have to go to a website to review your bill. Big deal. I've negated the need to have a filing cabinet in my study now.

[Cat Whisperer]

and does it take your husband at least three months to get around to calling to sort out every little problem? :-/
Ha - this made me snort out loud. No, not three months - only three weeks or so. :)

[crazyjoe]

Lot's of shit works here over direct debit.
However it is very usefull for a phone bill, since it's different everytime. I also don't forget to pay it and get charged late fees.
If you cancle/quit something, you just go to your bank and cancle the damn thing, simple.

Behold, a numbnuts is among us! Numbnuts, be educated as to the ways of online billing. If I absolutely must allow the billing to come from the provider as opposed to being initiated by me, I set it up to use another financial instrument that allows me financial freedom, the credit card.

You see, if someone fucks up a charge to my credit card, the worst thing that happens is I go over the limit or somesuch and have to call them to get the balance corrected before my next billing cycle. If someone fucks up my bank account, all sorts of bad shit happens. Checks bounce. I incur all sorts of fees and other obligations to my money that can tie it up for weeks, and in the mean time that money is no longer available to me for things that don't take credit cards, like my mortgage payment, or my local property tax bill.

[amarone]

Plus, in regards to spam filters, that is pretty much bullshit. After the first billing, add the address the statement comes from to your contacts and tell your spam filter what it is But that only handles the emails that get as far as you. I recently got charged $2 by TDAmeritrade for sending me a paper statement (not a bill) because their attempt to send it to me electronically was rejected by my ISP who, in their infinite wisdom, decided it was spam. My ISP (Comcast) also started blocking the Straight Dope emails, so now I use a gmail address.

[BlinkingDuck]

Ronald Reagan was President?

The Actor?!?