Rocky Mountain and Mesa Verde National Parks

[Ceejaytee]

In mid-August we're taking the kids (ages 6 and 8) camping and hiking in the Mesa Verde and Rocky Mountain National Parks. Does anyone have campground recommendations in either park? Or recommendations for easy to moderate trails, roughly 3 miles round-trip? Really, anything anyone can recommend for kids in either park would be great.

They've gone camping and hiking before. We've taken them to Yosemite and the Adirondacks, so they can handle that.

Oh, and while I'm thinking about it--what about altitude? Our younger son had some problems with altitude at Yosemite although we were there when he was only 4. We're driving from NJ and we figured there'd be adjusting along the way, but is there anything else we can do to prepare for the altitude adjustment?

Thanks!

[enipla]

'fraid I can't make any trail recommendations, but I do recommend that you try to plan your trip so that you spend a night in Denver before coming up to altitude. Denver is at 5280, and that will help you adjust.

[Kolga]

I agree with enipla about the night (or two) in Denver to acclimate. I haven't been to Mesa Verde in a long time, but I love Rocky Mountain. When you get to the entrance to the park, the rangers will give you a map that has some trails listed.

Here's (http://www.rocky.mountain.national-park.com/hike.htm) the official website, with hikes listed. I like Cub Lake and Cascade Falls, but there are so many to choose from. Please be sure to pay attention to the issues listed on the website regarding weather and other safety issues.

[Bijou Drains]

My wife and I went to Rocky Mountain after 1 night in Denver and had no problems with the altitude. We hiked some days up to 10,000 feet. I would tell you the trails we hiked but their official website is down now, I will try later. The link in the last post is an unofficial website.

[Ceejaytee]

Thanks for the Denver suggestion. I remember when I was a teenager we went to Colorado and zoomed up Pike's Peak first thing. I was horribly sick. We'll plan a day or two in Denver first.

[awldune]

It's been a while but I seem to remember we did the Emerald Lake and Dream Lake trails at RMNP. Very pretty. You can probably get a better recommendation from the park ranger or whoever is working the visitors' center.

Don't especially remember hiking at Mesa Verde, but the campground was fairly exposed-feeling. Not much shade.

I was very surprised at the dryness in the rockies as opposed to the mountains on the east coast. If you have any trouble with dry air, saline nasal spray and eyedrops and chapstick might be nice to have.

There is a state park with campground right in (or near) Denver, called Cherry Creek. Nice place to get used to the altitude.

On the way to RMNP from Denver you will go throuh Estes Park, which is a pretty crazy tourist town if you're into that sort of thing. I seem to remember there is nowhere to stop and eat for a very long time until you get there.

[wolfman]

Oh, and while I'm thinking about it--what about altitude? Our younger son had some problems with altitude at Yosemite although we were there when he was only 4. We're driving from NJ and we figured there'd be adjusting along the way, but is there anything else we can do to prepare for the altitude adjustment?

Thanks!

Unfortunately there really isn't much increase along the way. Into the middle of Nebraska it's still only 2500 feet or so. Then the way up to 5,6,7 thousand feet are a few hours driving at most. You definitely want to take it easy for a day or two to get acclimatized before going on anything high exertion.


As for particular areas, let me look and see if I can remember some of the cool ones.

[Bijou Drains]

Normally people only have altitude problems above 10,000 feet but it can hit before then in some people. I think we also did Emerald Lake and Dream Lake trails, they are good and not too long.

[NinjaChick]

My family did pretty much that trip (driving from NJ out to the southwest) when I was about 9. I don't recall any particular trails, but I do recall that some of the tours of the cliff dwellings involve a fair amount of climbing ladders and making your way through awkward spaces - I imagine it could be a bit much for a 6-year-old.

Altitude: The only way to get acclimated to high altitude is to spend time there. Even if you feel fine when you get there, even if you've spent a night in Denver, keep in mind that you will get out of breath and dehydrated much faster than you do at home, and it'll take you longer to catch your breath. Carry lots of water with you when you hike, and drink it. Adjust your time estimates for hiking as well - what would be a 2-hour hike in New York will probably take you longer in the Rockies. If you are hiking up a climb and you start feeling dizzy/nauseous/generally unwell, take a break, sit down, and drink some water. There's a very good chance that you're just dehydrated. If you don't feel better with some hydration, the best thing to do is cut the hike short and leisurely make your way back to camp, and drink some more water (notice a theme?). Seriously, I currently live at 7,000 feet and see it every summer: people who don't listen to their bodies end up pretty miserable, while people who do listen and are willing to take it easy if needed have a great time.

Something that's often forgotten about high altitudes is that while the days may be quite warm, the nights aren't. Dry, thin air doesn't hold heat like the humid, thicker air at sea level. It may be 90 degrees mid-afternoon, but overnight it'll probably drop down to somewhere in the 50's. Dress in layers. Also be aware that the weather can change pretty quickly for better or for worse, so keep an eye on the sky.

Some of the guided tours at Mesa Verde include (IIRC) quite a bit of climbing up ladders, so keep that in mind with your young kids.

Talk to the park rangers! They'll be able to answer your questions, recommend trails, and warn you about anything you should know.

[enipla]

Something that's often forgotten about high altitudes is that while the days may be quite warm, the nights aren't. Dry, thin air doesn't hold heat like the humid, thicker air at sea level. It may be 90 degrees mid-afternoon, but overnight it'll probably drop down to somewhere in the 50's. Dress in layers. Also be aware that the weather can change pretty quickly for better or for worse, so keep an eye on the sky. heh. Yep. It's snowing in Frisco right now. 9600 feet. But tomorow we might need sunscreen. Don't forget the sunscreen.

[Ceejaytee]

Thanks for the Cherry Creek recommendation, awldune. I'll look into it. Maybe we'll also do the tourist thing in Denver. We were prepared for the change in weather, having been through that before, but I'll remember the water, water, water. Ninja Chick has me re-thinking Mesa Verde, so I'll have to explore the official park website to see if we might be getting in over our heads. But I'm guessing even without Mesa Verde, there's 2 weeks of stuff to explore in RMNP.

These are all great recommendations. Thanks!

[TV time]

Mesa Verde ("Mesa Verd" to the locals), isn't especially high. Assuming you will be coming through the mountains to get there, you'll be pretty much used to the altitude by the time you get to the area.

Fewer campgrounds - just listen to the ranger for trails and such. But the heat is markedly worse. It is sort of high desert, so be prepared for that.

[NinjaChick]

heh. Yep. It's snowing in Frisco right now. 9600 feet. But tomorow we might need sunscreen. Don't forget the sunscreen.
Oh, I forgot that! Sunscreen. Lots and lots of sunscreen. If you don't normally burn at home - you probably will a mile above sea level. If you do normally burn at home, it'll happen in a quarter of the time. Seriously - I burn easily, which here translates to 20 minutes in the sun and I'm turning pink.

(And we've got a balmy 60 degrees today in Santa Fe. Offset somewhat by the 30mph wind with gusts up to 50 miles an hour.)

[Ceejaytee]

We apply sunscreen like mad when we hike (the littlest is blond and we take no chances with anyone). I'm getting more and more excited about this trip. 4 1/2 months away. Bah.

[Manda JO]

If you have time, The Black Canyon of the Gunnison (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Canyon_of_the_Gunnison_National_Park) makes a really nice third location in that tour: it's very different from them both, usually not at all crowded, and you can, as I remember, basically take "the long way" from Estes Park to Mesa Verde or vice-versa. This will take you across the Great Divide, and the drive in general is just spectacular.

[Xema]

... basically take "the long way" from Estes Park to Mesa Verde or vice-versa. This will take you across the Great Divide, and the drive in general is just spectacular.
Seconded - "spectacular" is actually something of an understatement here. I-70 through Glenwood Canyon has to be seen to be believed. You could then take routes 82, 133 and 92 south to Rte 50, which puts you within striking distance of the Black Canyon (not to be missed). You then continue south toward Mesa Verde past Ouray, Silverton and Durango. Simply a stunning route.

[wolfman]

Seconded - "spectacular" is actually something of an understatement here. I-70 through Glenwood Canyon has to be seen to be believed. You could then take routes 82, 133 and 92 south to Rte 50, which puts you within striking distance of the Black Canyon (not to be missed). You then continue south toward Mesa Verde past Ouray, Silverton and Durango. Simply a stunning route.

The Silverton Train is pretty cool too, If your kids are at all interested in trains. Takes about 4 hours. It is ugly expensive now though, depending on your budget.

[Shoeless]

It's been a while but I seem to remember we did the Emerald Lake and Dream Lake trails at RMNP. Very pretty. You can probably get a better recommendation from the park ranger or whoever is working the visitors' center.

Yep, we've done the Emerald Lake trail a couple times. It's a nice hike. If you don't want to hike that far, Bear Lake is just a short hike from the parking lot and you can take the trail around the lake.

Also, on the road to Bear Lake there is delightful little picnic area that has a mountain stream running right past it. We always make a point of stopping there for a picnic lunch.

[Super Kapowzler]

Dear Jersey:

I can give you the scrap on the campgrounds, but it is just my OPINION, based on facts and actual events.

You are going to be shocked when you get there, especially if you have never been to RMNP before 2005.
The whole place is grey/brown. See, the bugs came and killed just about everything, all the way up thru Montana, likely farther. You will see 100% kill for MILES. Grey and Brown, like a depressing cloudy day. I shit you not.
Campgrounds? When I pulled into Timber Creek Campground, RMNP, it made Darfur look like a better idea. The bugs killed the trees, the Service CUT DOWN THE TREES in the campground(because they might blow over on a camper), not one, not two, not six or sixty, ALL of 'em. Think "camping in a Wall Mart parking lot". No trees=I can see the neighbors, and their's, and so on and so on, and the main road, and the drunk guys way, way down there, and EVERONE ELSE.
What did they do with the cut-down trees? Shredded them. What did they do with the shreddings? Piled them up in super-huge piles in the areas of the campground where stands of majestic lodgepole once stood. So picture campers, blue tarps, dogs, kids, vomit, and pissy Rangers.
I saw the neighbors get drunk, party, get drunker, vomit, and crawl into their tent and then they HAD SEX WITHOUT BRUSHING THEIR TEETH. And made noise! GROSS!!!!! This is no shit, this is straight from the Kapowz'z adventure. Less than a year ago.

I say skip it and head south outta Denver, and find areas of green, living, Rocky Mountain spruce. Get a Colorado Gazetteer and find National forest Campgrounds. The views you seek will better in other parts of the state. Stay mobile.

Because of the dead trees, the place has become a tinder-box on a powder keg, on a short-fuse, on a powder keg, on a stack of claymores and lady fingers and Black Cats and bottlerockets, waiting to explode. If he Rockies don't burn down this summer, I'd be suprized. It is a disaster waiting to happen.

But, I am planning my own trip there too. So best of luck to us both!

[NinjaChick]

Oh, if you're going to be in the area, Great Sand Dunes Nat'l Park is well worth a visit, IMO. I find it's one of those natural features that's hard to do justice with a description - it's a great big pile of sand in the same way that the Grand Canyon is a great big hole in the ground. True on a simplistic level, but the place itself is beautiful and eerie and just kind of fascinating to look at. Hiking up the dunes was tremendous fun for me when I was nine - seriously challenging, but fun nonetheless.

[Ceejaytee]

I guess we'll be taking the long way from Estes Park. The trip sounds amazing. I'll check out Black Canyon and Great Sand Dunes (the pictures on the NP site are amazing). Thanks for the recommendations!

Super Kapowzler, you're scaring me.

[enipla]

I guess we'll be taking the long way from Estes Park. The trip sounds amazing. I'll check out Black Canyon and Great Sand Dunes (the pictures on the NP site are amazing). Thanks for the recommendations!

Super Kapowzler, you're scaring me. It is true. It affects Lodgepole pine particularly bad. Summit County has been hit quite hard. We are pretty much all Lodgepole. What happened, is that in the 1800's, gold was found up here, the forest was pretty much destroyed for lumber. Then, the fast growing Lodgepole took over, creating a forest of pretty much just one species.

This site (http://csfs.colostate.edu/pages/mountain-pine-beetle.html)has a map showing the affected areas. I get a drawing error when I click on it, but if you wait, it will down load and draw.

And I second the Dunes and the Black Canyon. Down at Mesa Verde, you won’t be too far from Telluride and Ouray. Very cool mountain towns in the beautiful San Juan Mountains. Also, Pagosa Springs has a nice little hotel with Great hot springs. I usually try to spend the night there when I’m in the area. Looks like their new ‘Luxury Suites’ are a bit expensive. We have always booked a regular room. Allows you full access to the springs, 24 hours a day.
http://www.pagosahotsprings.com/

[mack]

I third the recommendation for the Bear Lake/Emerald Lake area. Since it's in a valley it might make an east-coaster huff and puff a little but it won't kill ya.

That's a drag about the beetles, though. I haven't been in that area since sometime in the mid-'90s.

I don't recall there being many "hikes" in Mesa Verde. It's mainly park in the lot of a particular ruin and drop down from the rim. Great place.

In Durango you might find some guided river trips on the Animas. I don't think it's very treacherous and I imagine it would be a blast for the kids.

[Ceejaytee]

I've got a lot of places to investigate, plus the beetle situation. This has been very illuminating. Thanks all!

[Kolga]

DEFINITELY recommend Great Sand Dunes! I'm heading there myself in about a month. It's mindboggling.

Black Canyon is a very cool choice as well. It's been years since I've been there but I remember it being gorgeous and not that hard to get to.

Sunscreen, water, layered clothing - all very important. The weather can change dramatically very very quickly, so layers will help you cope with heat, then sudden downpours.

[Ionizer]

It should be mentioned that driving times on some of the roads can be different than what is 'typical'. Around RMNP/Estes Park, the roads are full of switchbacks/hairpin turns, etc, and what looks like a twenty minute drive may take hours if a large RV is ahead (or 18-wheeler, or even sightseers such as yourself, LOL).

Having lived in Central Idaho at 'altitude', I also strongly urge sun 'protection' of both eyes and skin during sunny days (hats/SPF-oils, etc...). Plus, do not push yourself too hard 'at altitude' unless you are particularly healthy and/or adapted physically (several days at least IME). As an example, had a brother come visit me from central TX for elk hunting around Salmon, ID...and he was a VERY fit Amy ranger that could kick my ass physically (usually). I was smoking cigs and laughing down at him as he did his bestest to keep up with me along the ridges (~8500'-ish or so, I guess). I ended up having to carry his gear/weapon not long after we started, and am never gonna let him live it down. He had been at around 6000' feet for three days prior to us going uphill, and it did him no good at all it seems, LOL. Just a little example of how altitude can unexpectedly sour a planned 'good time'.

Enjoy the beauty of the mountains - and respect the wildlife, of course, blah, blah... Binoculars can be worthwhile should you enjoy 'looking around'. One last thing, costs of typical things are often much higher when you get into the 'back areas' so finance accordingly.

[mack]

I don't recall there being many "hikes" in Mesa Verde. It's mainly park in the lot of a particular ruin and drop down from the rim. Great place.

Never mind - it looks like there actually are some little hikes in Mesa Verde around the Chapin Mesa area.

[Hanna]

I've visited both parks in the past few years, and while the pin beetle thing is true, it didn't diminish the experience, for me. I camped in Glacier Basin and Moraine Park campgrounds at RMNP. I preferred Moraine Park because the sites seemed to be a bit more private. Don't miss Trail Ridge Road. There are a couple hikes up there (altitude). Otherwisw the Bear-Dream-Emerald Lake hike is nice. Lisa Foster has a nice book out on hiking RMNP.

I didn't hike much in Mesa Verde because I only spent a day there, but that park is a must see.

[Belrix]

Get reservations for the campgrounds. The NP ones fill up fast and you can't depend on just getting a space during summer months.

I like the Moraine campground on the east side of RMNP. Lots of trees and nice spaces. The elk look tame. They're not.

Mesa Verde is fairly easy for young kids. I took my kids there years ago, three kids from age 6 & down. They hiked just fine to the mesa ruins.

Dunno if I agree with staying in Denver for a night. It's not like you're going to grow a bunch of red cells overnight. I'd say just go on up and take it easy at altitude. Rest when you get tired and drink lots of water. Yeah, don't forget the sunscreen.

As you travel from RMNP to MV (or the reverse), US-50 from Grand Junction to about Montrose or Ridgeway is booooring, IMO. I'd suggest zig-zagging around that part.

Independence Pass (Leadville to Aspen) is very nice, as is the famed Million-Dollar highway (Ouray to Durango). Great Sand Dunes is very interesting but the road from Walsenburg to Monte Vista isn't.

The drive to the top of Pike's Peak is interesting, dirt with 1000-foot drops if you wander wide. It's a bit pricey per car, I've always thought, but it's the only time you'll ever get to drive to the top of a fourteener. Shift to low gear on the way down - don't burn out your brakes. (That's a good suggestion for a lot of downhill grades in CO, too). The famed gift-shop donuts are over-rated, IMO.

If you get near Aspen, make the side-trip to the Maroon Bells to its south. During the summer, after 9:00 am, you have to park north of the area and take a bus due to limited parking. Google it up for details.

The peak-to-peak highway (Estes Park to Nederland to Central City) is a very nice drive and I'd highly recommend it. I ride it often on my motorcycle.

As you choose your way, avoid the interstates and choose the roads with lots of wiggles - those are the nice ones. If you've got a carburated car, you might have trouble starting it at altitude. Take a can of spray ether along.

[Hanna]

It's a bit pricey per car, I've always thought, but it's the only time you'll ever get to drive to the top of a fourteener.

Unless you drive to the top of Mount Evans (@ 14,264 ft.) It's $10 per car, but the road is paved. ;)

[Ceejaytee]

Moraine Campground, check. :) I've got to put together an itinerary. Thanks for the info on Mesa Verde Belrix. I was afraid we were just going to have to skip it, but I'll investigate further at the Park website.

[TV time]

I am also a big advocate of Black Canyon of the Gunnison. So I third it (or fourth, or whatever the current count is).

[Belrix]

Unless you drive to the top of Mount Evans (@ 14,264 ft.) It's $10 per car, but the road is paved. ;)Dunno why I forgot that. If I stand up and look out the right window, I can see Mt. Evans right now.

[Belrix]

Moraine Campground, check. :) I've got to put together an itinerary. Thanks for the info on Mesa Verde Belrix. I was afraid we were just going to have to skip it, but I'll investigate further at the Park website.

I should add that the youngest rode in the baby carrier for all the hiking. The youngest walker would've been about 3.5 years old, her older brother would've been 6.

[blondebear]

One thing to consider when visiting Mesa Verde is that you need to reserve a spot for touring some of the dwellings. If you show up later in the day and expect to see Cliff Palace or Balcony House, you might be disappointed.

[Ceejaytee]

Thanks blondebear, that's good to know. I'll be closely examining the Park websites for information about campgrounds and reservations for everything.

Thanks Belrix, if your daughter could walk it at 3.5, my 5 year old should be fine.