FlashForward April 8, 2010 [spoilers]

[Skammer]

I know a lot of people stopped watching this after the hiatus -- which is unfortunate, because the show has gotten better IMO. It's not that the characters have gotten any smarter, or the plot less contrived, but the twists, at least, have been pretty interesting in the last two weeks.

First, the revelation that D. Gibbons has been having regular flashforwards for 19 years and has "seen" the present (2010) and the future (his death, and Dimitri's). How do you track an enemy who knows what you're going to do?

The thing about the hidden phone number in the chess game was preposterous, but I kind of liked it.

Also - okay, Marcie is a mole. I don't think we ever saw her before tonight so no big deal. But who was the guy on the motorcycle? and Janice is a mole too :eek:! I did not see that coming. But I want to know who she works for. Who is pulling the strings? Is it Gibbons/Frost or someone else? Frost told Benford that he was willing to come forward now that the mole was caught: does he not know about Janice or is it a bluff to strengthen her cover?

This show is getting crazy in a way that reminds me of Prison Break, and I'm kind of digging it. Way better than last fall, anyway.

[MPB in Salt Lake]

I have been trying to muster the proper outrage and invective since watching last night's episode.........

All I can manage is that the time-travel aspect is BY FAR the most realistic and believable plotline of this entire trainwreck of a show. The characters and their relationships with one another makes Family Guy seem like a BBC docudrama in comparison.

That said, I am in till the mollyfocking bitter end (I have watched every episode weekly so far) and I may have to take a little trip down to ABC studio headquarters when it's over, just to have a "chat" with the writers of this rot.

(And somewhere, in the perverse recesses of my twisted psyche, I am enjoying just how fucking laughable and ludicrous these once-credible characters and relationships have become---It would be great to see if the actors are of the same opinion, being asked to put effort into acting out such utter hogg-shitt)

[duality72]

Another decent episode and I agree the twists since the break have been (mostly) good. Not sure I get some of the other hate for this show. The only real complaint I had before the break was that it was getting boring, but that hasn't been a problem since.

[sachertorte]

Janice is a mole too :eek:! I did not see that coming.

Of course you didn't see it coming. They just made that up out of thin air!

[Skammer]

Of course you didn't see it coming. They just made that up out of thin air!
Well, yeah, there's that. :D It does see like they are making it up as they go along.

[Fair Rarity]

I thought it was going to be Seth. It would justify his appearance, but his real secret was pretty awesome.

After that, I pretty much spaced out for the rest of the episode.

[Exapno Mapcase]

Oh sure, a bunch of them get shot. But why give them sympathy? Those are the red shirts who were sitting in a nice office with lots of coffee and probably bathroom breaks.

Won't anybody think of the poor guy sitting on his motorcycle for 36 hours waiting for the signal to pick up a rogue FBI agent on 15 seconds notice? What about him?

This show has gone so far past ludicrous that we need to time travel to the future just to gather some new words to describe it.

[jackdavinci]

Wow this show gets a lot of hate lol. I guess I'm the only one who still really likes it.

Well, yeah, there's that. :D It does see like they are making it up as they go along.

Some of the criticism of the show is apt, but the 'making it all up' rant has always struck me as bizarre. If anything, this show has been, of all the various long-mytharc mystery shows, the very best at proving itself as being well thought out and carefully crafted with respect to it's clues, mysteries, and answers. Nearly every episode has paid back clues we saw in the pilot, including the huge board of clues and calendar dates. I think the show pretty much has proven it's merit in this regard.

I happened to have gotten to talk with one of the writers a few weeks ago, and my suspicions were confirmed. They really are aware of all the various dangling plot pieces, and have a list of them to make sure things get addressed.

With regards to this particular bit, personally I suspect that she is *not* in fact a mole, and is actually punking Simon.

I thought it was going to be Seth. It would justify his appearance, but his real secret was pretty awesome.

He was in the pilot too.

The main thing I'm not liking is the dismantling of Mark and Olivia's relationship. Particularly Olivia's near ultimatum with regards to avoiding their future. There are obviously other lesser things they can do to come to a compromise.

[Exapno Mapcase]

With regards to this particular bit, personally I suspect that she is *not* in fact a mole, and is actually punking Simon.


I have to agree. No show gets away with a lead female being a villain after a season-long arc - and not a plot arc, a character arc - based on a heartfelt need for a baby.

And if she's also a mole that means that the bad guys have gotten to three of the people in that tiny room. That's one too many even for ludicrous.

You can have a show based on twists or you can have a show based on character. Never both. (I know some people claim Lost to be the exception, but not while I was watching it.) If you show is based on twists you have to have characters whose parts, presents, and futures can be altered and moved around like, um, chess pieces and that's not true for real people you've given any depth to. The fact that we didn't know the flashforwards of two of the major characters in the pilot until episode 14 is indicative that nobody on the show cares about them as people.

[MPB in Salt Lake]

The main thing I'm not liking is the dismantling of Mark and Olivia's relationship. Particularly Olivia's near ultimatum with regards to avoiding their future. There are obviously other lesser things they can do to come to a compromise.

This just kills me; "Honey, I want SO MUCH to save our marriage that I think we should just pack right up and move cross-country to prevent our impending break up. No? OK, then let's separate for a while then" :rolleyes:

[MPB in Salt Lake]

I have to agree. No show gets away with a lead female being a villain after a season-long arc - and not a plot arc, a character arc - based on a heartfelt need for a baby.

And if she's also a mole that means that the bad guys have gotten to three of the people in that tiny room. That's one too many even for ludicrous.

And then after this stunning bloodbath, where several of her FBI friends and colleagues were masacred and where she had actually shot and killed the getaway driver, Janice just strolls out of the office with Simon, coolly turns down his sexual come-on and then lets him know her secret identity, which if was found out would assure her being charged with treason, murder and espionage........... :dubious:

[JohnT]

I'm enjoying it. If you can suspend your disbelief re: the flaw in the central premise, the rest of the logic issues just seem to disappear... ;)

[Skammer]

I hope they explain that kangaroo in the pilot.

[Gangster Octopus]

I love how quickly he figured out the chess angle. I call this the CSI'ing of television, instant results using computers.

[Skammer]

Or that Frost knew, in the 1980s(?), that the chess game he was playing would one day be available as a detailed play-by-play on the internet including the amount time that each turn took. Can I go online and find that kind of detail for championship chess games from twenty-five years ago?

[Gangster Octopus]

I was thinking that it would be a cool plot twist if two people had future visions that did not coincide. Like, "In my flashforward I was having luch with Anna Paquin in Los Angeles" and then Anna Paquin, "In my FlashForward I was delivering medical supplies to Pakistan."

[RikWriter]

Mark me down as believing Janice is not, in fact, a mole and is trying to get information.

[BobLibDem]

I want to hit the mute button every time they show a computer because every time they hit the enter key, you have to hear the computer go beep and boop. Maybe in the 1980s people thought computers beeped every time they displayed data but jeez that is so irritating to see it now.

[ChuckForbin]

Well, I'm glad to see a thread on this, thought maybe I was the only one still watching it. Can I first though add that people who read the book PLEASE keep quiet ? I dropped out of the early threads on FF for fear of being spoiled by the bookworms.

Anyway, what confuses me in this show is whether the flash forwards MUST occur, or not. I assume that since the one guy died early, that the flash forwards are what *might* be as opposed to what *will* be ?

There's a lot that confuses me about this show, actually, but they slowly seem to be explaining things. I'm still diggin' it.

[RikWriter]

Well, I'm glad to see a thread on this, thought maybe I was the only one still watching it. Can I first though add that people who read the book PLEASE keep quiet ? I dropped out of the early threads on FF for fear of being spoiled by the bookworms.


No need for that. The show bears very little resemblance to the book.

[jackdavinci]

Anyway, what confuses me in this show is whether the flash forwards MUST occur, or not. I assume that since the one guy died early, that the flash forwards are what *might* be as opposed to what *will* be ?

Yes the two deaths of people who had flashforwards proves that the future can be changed. But given that the motivations of people remain the same, added to which all of the people who are trying to make their flashforwards self-fulfilling if they liked them, the timeline has some inertia/momentum to it, such that many of the same events will still play out.

My own personal theory is that the flashforward is like video feedback or one of those infinite mirror chambers, that is, the loop keeps repeating and spawning off alternative universes. So this flashforward was what happened last time the loop cycled, and that the next loop will see whatever our characters do on D day. So the best thing to do on D day is have some kind of note or video to oneself at the ascribed time. While this wouldn't help yourself per se, it would give the next loop's version of you a big head's up...

[Hal Briston]

I'm enjoying the show, but the entire "mole" angle drove me up a wall. Not that there was a mole, but that the team even considered there was a mole.

Since Dyson Frost has had so many flashforwards, why would they think there was a mole? Wouldn't the though be "Of course Frost had advance notice of our actions...he had flashforwards about it"?

[Omar Little]

I assume that the writers have some idea how they are going to end this season...at least one point to cling to, because it appears that it is being written week to week. If they feel the need to fill some sort of plot hole, they create some sort of contrived explanation with about 15 seconds of dialogue (i.e. Mark solving for Dyson's cell phone number using decades old chess moves that now are on-line).

However, it has created some unique plot twists that no one saw coming...not even the writers until this past week.

[MovieMogul]

The chess-move-second-intervals-as-morse-code-thing was so monumentally stupid, I think I have to give up on the show now.

[DigitalC]

I'm enjoying the show, but the entire "mole" angle drove me up a wall. Not that there was a mole, but that the team even considered there was a mole.

Since Dyson Frost has had so many flashforwards, why would they think there was a mole? Wouldn't the though be "Of course Frost had advance notice of our actions...he had flashforwards about it"?

Because advance knowledge meant he would have got rid of them long before, not immediately after they found out. That seemed fairly obvious to me, if the bad guys find out at the same time you do then someone is feeding them your info.

[BrandonR]

I've really enjoyed the show thus far and have religiously watched every episode, but the whole time of movements being morse code was reaaaaaally ridiculous. Even for a show whose premise is everybody seeing their potential future.

And I hope Janice doesn't end up being a mole (I haven't watched this past week's episode yet but it's sitting on the DVR). I can't stand when a show grooms you to like a character over the course of several months and then flips it on you. Stop playing with my emotions!

[Justin_Bailey]

I just watched this episode (and the next one) on Hulu and they both were a complete pile of suck. FlashForward has gone completely off the rails and I'm pretty convinced that the show is done at the end of this year.

It'll be a mercy killing really.

[Skammer]

I'm kind of hoping they wrap up the current season's questions and cancel the show - that'd be the best of both worlds for me.

I like how Television Without Pity's recap of last week's show asked "Remember how last week, Janice implied she was a mole? Well, you're the only one, since it doesnt get mentioned this week."

[JohnT]

I was wondering... Did Olivia go to bed with Lloyd, or did they just kiss?

Also, is that how you save your marriage? Get mad at your husband, kick him out of the house/move out, then kiss the guy you're scared you're going to have an affair with?

And btw, if I never see the alcoholic with the daughter in Afghanistan again, I would be thrilled. For some reason, the story completely bores me.