Buckley's Chance - is there an American equivalent?

[woolly]

I was in discussion with a colleague recently on a work related matter. Specifically he was trying to sell me something. When he asked what his chances of success were. I told him "You've got Buckley's". Being a pommie, the phrase drew a stunned, blank look from him.

Trying to boost his knowledge of the local venaclular I found the following definition in [/url] Wilton's Word & Phrase Origins ( [url]http://www.wordorigins.org/home.htm) "Buckley's chance is an Australian phrase meaning no chance at all. It is not found in British or American speech. Partridge believes that it is probably a reference to William Buckley, a convict who escaped from Port Phillip in 1803 and lived with the Aborigines before surrendering to authorities."

I would dispute that Buckley's Chance means no chance at all. It is refers to an action with a negligible, effectively zero, chance of success. Something that just might happen, but you'd never bet on it. As an example, I have no chance of being President of the U.S.A. while I have Buckley's Chance of being Prime Minister (or President for that matter :) ) of Australia.

IIRC Buckley was a recalcitrant convict who was being transported from Port Phillip (now Melbourne) to Van Diemans Land (now Tasmania), presumably to the hell hole of Port Arthur. His prospects were pretty grim. Whilst about half way across Bass Strait he jumped overboard during a storm. He couldn't swim but somehow but made it the several miles to land, survived 32 years in the bush before surrendering. He was pardoned and lived another 20 years in "civilisation" and died peacefully a very old man having outlived all the people who were involved in his incarceration.

The phrase is usually either expressed as "You have two chances, Buckley's and none" or "You've got Buckley's". The phrase encapsulates the idea of "Don't just rollover and let it happen to you, any chance is better than no chance at all".

Now the fact that this colloquialism is not found in American speech is not surprising, but it's such a marvellously picturesque phrase with a meaning\attitude that many dopers could relate too.

Well that's more than enough verbiage, over to the TM. Does "Buckley's Chance" have an American equivalent?

[LazarusLong42]

Both "a ghost's chance" and "a snowball's chance in hell" have effectively the same meaning, but aren't nearly as evocative. :)

LL

[MinkMan]

The equivalent Southern US phrase that I've heard is "somewhere twixt slim and none," sometimes followed with "and slim done left town."

[Colibri]

[Disclaimer: I fully realize the term below will be offensive to those of Chinese or Asian origin. I am just reporting it. A web search turned up 318 hits on the phrase, some used by Asian Americans. Apologies in advance to anyone this may offend.]

I think the nearest American equivalent would be "chinaman's chance." Rather than no chance at all, it tends to signify "slim to none."

On my quick web search, I didn't immediately find anything on the origin (although there are a few book titles). However, I believe one proposed origin is the supposed practice of sending Chinese laborors, regarded as highly expendable, into mines in the California gold fields in the 1800's to set off explosive charges.

[samclem]

I think I agree with colibri that "Chinaman's chance" may be the US equivalent.

While I can find all kinds of fanciful suppositions about the phrase going back to the Chinese who were around in the West in the mid-1800's, the earlies cites in print for the phrase stem from around 1910-15.

As a generalization, if the phrase was commonly used in the timeframe of the 1850-60's, someone(such as Mark Twain) would have used it well before the 1910 period in print.

[AKAmame]

woolly, the equally popular derivation for "buckley's" is from an (I believe Victorian) department store 'Buckley and Nunn'. Vide The Macquarie Dictionary.

[woolly]

Originally posted by AKAmame
woolly, the equally popular derivation for "buckley's" is from an (I believe Victorian) department store 'Buckley and Nunn'. Vide The Macquarie Dictionary.



'Tis true, and many sources do cite both references.

However, Buckley and his exploits predated the department store. Buckley never sought publicity after his surrender. After 30 years living with the aboriginal tribes he'd lost the ability to speak English. Buckley & Nunn almost certainly exploited the play on words and local story. They may well have been what promoted and popularised the phrase outside Melbourne. IIRC Nunn was the controlling partner, so logically the store should have been Nunn & Buckley.

However try and fit the meaning to the same words (well actually the same phonetics) as an advertising slogan for a posh clothing store. Do you reckon it works?

Anyhow, see you at the DOG tomorrow and we'll thrash the question out there!

[hawthorne]

Buckley and Nunn is long gone BTW. David Jones is where it used to be. IIRC Buckley's closed in the early 1980s.