LOST 6.14 "The Candidate"

[Trion]

Mouseover spoiler space.
















Previously on Lost: Jack wound up in Locke's camp and I'm sure they'll be BFF. Sun and Jin have been reuinited and have declared that they will never be apart again. I just hope they don't wind up eternally united in death. Widmore's men have missles, Richard and crew are going for hand granades and I'm expecting plenty more explosions.

Episode Summary for tonight:
When asked to perform a difficult task, Jack must decide whether or not to trust Locke.


_______________________________________________

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The Official Lost Jargon Thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=286221)

Official “Lost” Questions Thread Season 1 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=284542), Season 2 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=336040), Season 3 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=390739)

Here are some interesting external links:

The Tail Section (http://www.thetailsection.com/): Excellent site for still frame photos of key scenes, along with some good analysis. But… beware of spoilers!

Sledgeweb’s Lost… Stuff (http://lost.cubit.net/): Pretty good site, but again beware of spoilers. I use it mainly for the Timeline section, which is an incredibly detailed breakdown of “how long since…?” for almost anything you can think of (pre- and post-plane crash).

Door Map from Episode 2.17 (http://www.thetailsection.com/uploaded_images/cleanwall-707484.jpg). A nicely cleaned up version of the diagram Locke saw while pinned under the lockdown doors. No spoilers.

Lostpedia ( http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Main_Page): The wikipedia of Lost information. Quite a comprehensive site, but beware of spoilers!

ThEmIsFiTiShErE (http://themisfitishere.blogspot.com/): The Misfit offers his whacky commentary on “Lost”. Is he a nut-case or a clever insider? Careful, though, possible spoilers.

[Bob Ducca]

Is this the episode where his wife turns into salt?

Sorry, couldn't resist a joke at the expense of the typo in the subject line.

[Trion]

Dammit! Does someone know how I can get the title edited?

ETA: I just sent a report. Hopefully a kindly moderator will be along shortly.

[Marley23]

ETA: I just sent a report. Hopefully a kindly moderator will be along shortly.
I don't see one, so I'll do it instead.

[VunderBob]

Well, I reported for you, too. Same time, apparently.

[John Mace]

Hey, I ask this in another thread, but... Did the writers ever explain when and why The Others couldn't reproduce? We know the Dharma folks had no problem pumping out babies, so it can't just be "The Island".

[Trion]

I don't see one, so I'll do it instead.

Thank you! And you too, VunderBob!

[UncleRojelio]

Is this the episode where his wife turns into salt?

Sorry, couldn't resist a joke at the expense of the typo in the subject line.

Wait, what did the original subject line say?

[John Mace]

Wait, what did the original subject line say?

I'm guessing "Lot 6.14 'The Candidate'".

Dropped the "s" from "Lost".

[cmkeller]

John Mace:

Hey, I ask this in another thread, but... Did the writers ever explain when and why The Others couldn't reproduce? We know the Dharma folks had no problem pumping out babies, so it can't just be "The Island".

I thought we were meant to infer that the detonation (or whatever) of Jughead was somehow responsible.

[John Mace]

John Mace:



I thought we were meant to infer that the detonation (or whatever) of Jughead was somehow responsible.

But that hadn't happened in the original time line.

[Winston Bongo]

Can't wait for this episode. I've heard some possible spoiler/rumors, and if they're even partially true . . . woo-boy, this is going to be a big one. (Of course, considering they only have 5 hours left, I guess they should all be big ones now.)

I also presume from the title that we'll find out who the final Candidate is. They've been foreshadowing Jack like crazy, but that only makes me wonder if it's a diversion and it will turn out to be someone else. Whoever it is, I'm anxious to find out how one officially accepts the job, seeing that Jacob isn't around to place his magic touch upon them anymore.

[cmkeller]

John Mace:

But that hadn't happened in the original time line.

Something with Jughead happened in the original timeline. It was "the Incident." It didn't cause the island to sink (that happened in the alt), but it could certainly have leaked radioactive stuff into the environment that rendered women sterile.

What exactly happened at the end of last season, how exactly it "created" the alt timeline or necessitated the Swan station to have the computer and failsafe key (not to mention the heiroglyphics) by the site - that's still something of a mystery. But certainly something happened.

[Mahaloth]

Assuming they answer it, anyone wanna take a final guess at who The Candidate is?

I'll go first:

Hurley

[Merijeek]

Do we know what -centric this episode is?

-Joe

[Winston Bongo]

Do we know what -centric this episode is?

-JoeNot 100% sure of this, but I think it's . . .
. . . a combo Jack/Locke episode. Which could mean Jack is the final Candidate. Or not. Anyway, I expect we'll get some swooshing between Jack/Locke in the ALT and Jack/Smocke on the Island. Should be interesting, especially if ALT Locke's consciousness starts to "bleed over" with his monster-possessed other self.

[middleman]

As for the final candidate, I'm betting it is....Geronimo Jackson!



I'm gonna keep beating that dead horse!

[Arcite]

Not that this will be answered in this episode, but I'd really like to know if the MiB can actually be killed by Widmore's airstrikes.

[Merijeek]

Not that this will be answered in this episode, but I'd really like to know if the MiB can actually be killed by Widmore's airstrikes.

Silly boy(?), whatever gave you that impression?

Smokey obviously needs followers, otherwise he'd just kill everyone. It never even occurred to me that they might be trying to kill him with an airstrike.

And why do I see people assuming airstrikes? From the sound I figured it was artillery of some kind.

-Je

[Monstre]

ALT Locke is a "candidate". heh. (For a new medical procedure)

[Monstre]

"I've got the gun"
Sawyer: "Not any more, Dough Boy!"

hahhaahha! nice.

[Mahaloth]

I forget who Anthony Cooper is. Locke's Dad?

[Merijeek]

I forget who Anthony Cooper is. Locke's Dad?

Locke's dad, Sawyer's "Sawyer".

-Joe

[Monstre]

Cool -- Flocke doing a little neck-snapping smackdown in non-smoky form.
Airplane wired to explode or something? Yep, apparently so.
---

Wonder if we'll see Richard arrive in this episode.

---

Ha -- now FLocke wants to take the sub. Should have been the original plan.

[MsWhatsit]

I'm confused. Why is Jack now determined not to leave the island? And why are Sawyer and Claire now with Smokey? Weren't they heading out on their own at some point? I feel like I've either missed something or forgotten something.

[Arcite]

Smokey obviously needs followers, otherwise he'd just kill everyone. It never even occurred to me that they might be trying to kill him with an airstrike.
Not sure what the first sentence has to do with the second. But Smokey has by now repeatedly expressed concern over being killed. And if Widmore can't hurt him, why threaten him with the fire and keep firing at him?

[Monstre]

Wild-Ass Probably-Wrong Theory:
Maybe in the end, Widmore will become the new "Smoky", the new container for the evil that has to remain bottled up on the island. (Just like one of our Losties might be the new Jacob).

[Monstre]

ALT Jack getting freaked by the "coincidences", meeting all the 815 passengers...
---

Bulletproof FLocke taking out the attack party. Looks like Jack may be going with them after all -- now he's on the sub.
----

Oooh, WHY doesn't Claire want to be on that sub? FLocke giving an ominous look there. Did he put the C4 in Jack's backpack?

[Monstre]

Yep -- FLocke's plan to kill all the candidates at once? Maybe without violating the "You can't kill them directly" rule?

[Winston Bongo]

Ohhhhhhhh. SHIT.

[Mahaloth]

Two weeks from tonight, the episode is called:

What They Died For




Uh oh.

[Monstre]

I'm confused. Why is Jack now determined not to leave the island? And why are Sawyer and Claire now with Smokey? Weren't they heading out on their own at some point? I feel like I've either missed something or forgotten something.
Jack has faith now -- he believes he's there for a reason, after real Locke's death, his return to the island, his experience at the lighthouse, as well as not getting blown up by the dynamite with Richard at the Black Rock. He is truly starting to believe he has a special purpose there.

As for Sawyer and Claire. Yes, they were heading out on their own in the last episode, took off with the gang, stole the boat to head to Hydra Island without FLocke, and then in this episode, Jack, Sayid, and FLocke broke them out of Widmore's cages. So they are now with Smokey for convenience -- Sawyer still wanted to leave on the sub, but without Smokey.

[Mahaloth]

Oh no!!!!

[Monstre]

"I have to go after Sayid!"
"There is no Sayid!"

Damn, that sub is going down down down fast. They have nowhere to go.

[well he's back]

Poor Sayid - and he didn't get a chance to redeem himself. or did he. where's Desmond?

[MsWhatsit]

"There is no Sayid...there is only Zuul." (Please tell me I'm not the only one.)

Thanks for the explanation, Monstre!

[Monstre]

Damn. Holy crap.... crap crap crap crap..!

[Shark Sandwich]

I'm normally not one who complains about the creator's art, and I normally don't get attached to characters very much, but I just have to say that that is some BOOOOLSHIT right there.

[MsWhatsit]

I'm normally not one who complains about the creator's art, and I normally don't get attached to characters very much, but I just have to say that that is some BOOOOLSHIT right there.

Preach it, brother.

[Monstre]

So did Lapidus make it out?

Clearly Sayid didn't, as well as Jin and Sun... :-(

[well he's back]

gads I'm dying here. My lost station is lost because of a storm. I see who died but I don't know who did it and whether they were in an airplane or a sub

[JerseyMarine2092]

The only bright side of this is that my friend who insists that Smokey has never lied is clearly completely full of it now.

[Mahaloth]

So, I wonder if those in the alternate timeline will figure out a way to merge timelines and be alive again, including Locke?

[Shark Sandwich]

The only bright side of this is that my friend who insists that Smokey has never lied is clearly completely full of it now.

As are the "Jacob is bad, Smocke is good" camp.

ETA: oh, and that was THE friggin 1-2 punch of character elimination. The Sayid thing happened and I was thinking, "Man, that sucks. And then the other thing happened, and I was saying "WTF?"

[Monstre]

So I'm thinking that Jack was totally on target when he said "do nothing -- we'll be okay". Because the bomb exploding on its own due to Smoky putting it in Jack's pack would effectively be Smoky killing them directly -- apparently against the rules.

Sawyer's intervention damned them.

[Algernon]

So did Lapidus make it out?

I want to know the answer to this too. I guess I'll assume he didn't, but I don't think we saw for sure so it could go either way. Sort of like Jin escaping the exploding freighter.

ETA: And are we down to 3 remaining candidates now? Jack, Hurley, and Sawyer?

[BrianJ4]

Lapidus got KO'd by a door when the water came in, so no..

I'm guessing that in the Alt timeline, Smokey is actually loose, since in that timeline all the candidates and everyone on the island is at the bottom of the ocean.

[Mahaloth]

And what are Richard and Miles doing?

[OpalCat]

Well I didn't see that coming :(

[Monstre]

Damn -- I liked Lapidus... he always had some fun wry comments to add to the situation.

poor Ji Yeon. Orphaned already... :(

[N9IWP]

Well, Jack actually figured something out.
Dunno about the bomb though. Guessing the submarine doesn't have torpedo tubes.

Major bummer about Jin and Sun (and Sayid, but he died saving others)

Brian

[Monstre]

How deep was that sub when they got out? Nobody got the bends?

[Winston Bongo]

You have to give Smokey some points for just manipulating the hell out of our heroes. For weeks I'd been wondering how he was planning on dealing with the candidates when he knew he couldn't kill them. Several discussions here even brought up the possibility that he may try getting them to kill each other. Problem was, I could never figure out how he'd go about it. Turns out he came up with a pretty damn clever way!

(So clever that I guess I can overlook the fact that an ancient being who's never seen modern civilization somehow knows how to set a time bomb, and rig it to explode when tampered with in a certain manner. Maybe he was accessing Locke's memories for that. Because I'm sure Locke would know how to do that . . . uh, right?)

And I'm placing my bet that Lapidus is still alive. We never saw confirmation that he was dead after that door hit him. That would be a pretty crappy way to kill off a fan favorite character -- sort of the Lost equivalent of Boba Fett's lame-ass death on Jabba's sand barge.

Gotta feel a little bad for Sawyer . . . it's his fault the bomb went off, and now he has to know that.

[Fenris]

John Mace:



Something with Jughead happened in the original timeline. It was "the Incident." It didn't cause the island to sink (that happened in the alt), but it could certainly have leaked radioactive stuff into the environment that rendered women sterile.

What exactly happened at the end of last season, how exactly it "created" the alt timeline or necessitated the Swan station to have the computer and failsafe key (not to mention the heiroglyphics) by the site - that's still something of a mystery. But certainly something happened.

Ok--thinking out loud here.

It's clear that the point of departure from the "real" timeline had to be far, far earlier than Jughead blowing up (or whatever) in 1977. Some of the changes include Locke's daddy not being a total scum for one. And it's implied in this episode that Locke may have even been raised by/with Daddy (instead of crazy mommy...like Claire and the Crazy French Chick? Hmmm...anyway, off with that tangent).

Anyway....what if the change was NOT them blowing up Jughead, but stopping Jughead from leaking all over the place in the '50s.

Follow me--I think I have an idea.

Army is driven off by Whidmore/Creepy Time Lady's Others. Jughead leaks causing "Other Sterility Disease" and necessitating A) the injections (to help prevent radiation poisoning?) and B) Making the "plague"/quarrantine thing make sense--The Swan is buried deeply enough that radiation won't get through. This is the un-tampered with timeline where Seasons 1-4 or so happened. It also allows for the much less stoopid Dharma initiative than the hippies of S5 who couldn't fart without an encounter group session, let alone build stuff like The Hatch and good lord, The Looking Glass (underwater!?). It's too dangerous there with the background radiation to send all the lusers that we saw in S5. Jacob still tags the Losties though. Hell, the DI could have even come 10 years earlier so the tech and cultural stuff (why does everyone in the hatch's musical tastes stop in 1972?) makes sense.

The divergence point is Daniel and Co stopping Jughead from leaking in 1952. With Jughead stopped we get the DI of S5. The cataclysmic events at the end of S5 are enough to convince Roger to go home with Ben. Because the island of the Alt-Timeline was blowed up/sunk, Alt-Ben's Otherizing doesn't take. Other changes could include Alt-Whidmore (soldier in 1952) having markedly different past . With that change, Richard would never have gone to look for Locke (and presumably alerted Jacob to Locke and the other Candidates. Without that, everyone's lives are different. The thing that's unique about them all is that, no matter what happens to the timeline, all of them get on flight 815.

Um....thus endeth fanboy speculation/wanking.

Liked Sayid's death, HATED Jin and Sun's needless death--we spent...what? Three seasons waiting for them to get back together and they shared maybe 5 minutes of screentime before they died?

Yuck.

What was the musicbox playing? I couldn't tell, but if it was "Make Your Own Kind Of Music", that's creepy.

I'm now in the "Smokey AND Jacob are Evil" camp. I'm really hoping someone (at this stage, it pretty much has to be the Doc) pulls a Babylon 5 speech at Smokey and Jacob (don't read the spoiler box if you haven't ever seen B5 but intend to. It'll ruin the show)
Jack to Smokey/Jacob: "It's over because we've decided it's over," Sheridan says angrily. "Now get the hell out of our world! Both of you!"

:D

[enalzi]

You have to give Smokey some points for just manipulating the hell out of our heroes. For weeks I'd been wondering how he was planning on dealing with the candidates when he knew he couldn't kill them. Several discussions here even brought up the possibility that he may try getting them to kill each other. Problem was, I could never figure out how he'd go about it. Turns out he came up with a pretty damn clever way!

(So clever that I guess I can overlook the fact that an ancient being who's never seen modern civilization somehow knows how to set a time bomb, and rig it to explode when tampered with in a certain manner. Maybe he was accessing Locke's memories for that. Because I'm sure Locke would know how to do that . . . uh, right?)



Smokey seems to have the ability to access pretty much anyone's memories. He probably got the bomb making info from Sayid, and build it in a way that he knew Sayid would say to pull out the two wires.

[Electronic Chaos]

What was the musicbox playing? I couldn't tell, but if it was "Make Your Own Kind Of Music", that's creepy.

"Catch a Falling Star" according to the Closed Captioning.

(I recommend watching LOST with the CC on, as it's easy to miss little tidbits of conversation just listening)

[Awgrimm]

I don't understand why, if FLocke wanted them all dead, he didn't let them get on the plane and start it up. You know, something like, "You guys go ahead and get started, I'll be right back."

And as far as FLocke putting the bomb in Jack's pack so he would take it into the sub, doesn't that seem like a stretch? I mean, even if he suspected Jack's "treachery", Jack still said he wasn't going with the others. Pretty lucky Widmore's flunkies shot Kate, making sure Jack HAD to get onto the sub, huh?

[jackdavinci]

Wow...

RIP Sayid, Frank, Jin, Sun... I have a feeling that Jack, Hurley, Claire and Desmond may be the only characters to make it to the final hour. At least Sayid got to redeem himself.

Next week: JvM!

So I'm thinking that Jack was totally on target when he said "do nothing -- we'll be okay". Because the bomb exploding on its own due to Smoky putting it in Jack's pack would effectively be Smoky killing them directly -- apparently against the rules.

Agreed that this was the writer's intention. Seems kind of silly the way it plays out though. Richard can light a stick of dynamite and Jack can just sit there and force 'the rules' to fizzle it out. But Sawyer can accidently activate a bomb and suddenly everyone is fair game. Wreaks of wand ownership... I guess Smoky was the first rules lawyer.

It's clear that the point of departure from the "real" timeline had to be far, far earlier than Jughead blowing up (or whatever) in 1977. Some of the changes include Locke's daddy not being a total scum for one.

It's far far from clear. So far the only thing that's clear is that the island did not sink immediately after the incident because Ben and Dr Chang escaped the island. We know that Cooper was still a scum because Sawyer is still chasing him, and did not raise Locke because they still have different last names. It's possible he had a change of heart later in life.

[silenus]

If I ever meet the producers, I'm going to punch them in the nose. Nobody makes my wife cry and gets away with it.

[John Mace]

OK, anybody else totally call the point where Locke handed Jack the backpack? I knew the C4 was in there.

And Jin and Sun dying. Oh, boo-hoo. Sorry if don't shed any tears for people who are alive and well in the ATL.

Speaking of the ATL, one of the Losties (Jack?) is going to do something about the fact that they were all on FL 815. Maybe if they all get together, they'll remember everything.

[Merijeek]

A couple comments...

First off, this west coast bullshit I'm living through this week is, um, bullshit.

As someone who knows nothing about demolitions (beyond CUT THE BLUE WIRE - IT'S ALWAYS THE BLUE WIRE), I've got a basic C4 question. Is there anything that would prevent someone from taking a knife and carving away a big chunk of the explosive?

I'm annoyed about Sun and Jin, but what really annoys me is that there's absolutely no indication whatsoever of what happened to Frank. At least show his body drifting past the lovers' poetic hands or something.

I don't understand why, if FLocke wanted them all dead, he didn't let them get on the plane and start it up. You know, something like, "You guys go ahead and get started, I'll be right back."

Presumably he needs the plane for something. He can't seem to cross water on his own (unless all the rowing was a bluff), and with the sub gone he might still need the plane.

I want to know why Widmore would set up such a clumsy trap. Something with the whole sequence is off.

And as far as FLocke putting the bomb in Jack's pack so he would take it into the sub, doesn't that seem like a stretch? I mean, even if he suspected Jack's "treachery", Jack still said he wasn't going with the others. Pretty lucky Widmore's flunkies shot Kate, making sure Jack HAD to get onto the sub, huh?

Nah. They were on a pier with only a little cover and only one way off. Jack was eventually going to have to get in the sub, get shot, or surrender.

Wreaks of wand ownership... I guess Smoky was the first rules lawyer.


Umm...he spent hundreds of years working to exploit a "loophole". You just figured that out?


It's far far from clear. So far the only thing that's clear is that the island did not sink immediately after the incident because Ben and Dr Chang escaped the island. We know that Cooper was still a scum because Sawyer is still chasing him, and did not raise Locke because they still have different last names. It's possible he had a change of heart later in life.

Maybe Cooper was still a bastard and still working the "best dad in the world - oh by the way can I have a kidney?" con when the plane crash happened. That's my current working theory.

-Joe

[oliversarmy]

I'm still standing by my earlier speculations and I think that at the end Jacob and Smoke will still be sitting on the island at the end and that all of our favorite and not so favorite characters will be living in the ATL.

I'll also add this. My daughter has watched and loved this show from the beginning. When the really bad thing happened, I made a stupid joke, not realizing she was tearing up. I wish I could take that back.

[Merijeek]

I'll also add this. My daughter has watched and loved this show from the beginning. When the really bad thing happened, I made a stupid joke, not realizing she was tearing up. I wish I could take that back.

Those of us burdened with a surplus of wit sometimes use it carelessly. It'll be OK - she's probably used to dealing with the surplus.

-Joe

[deedeeknowit]

I don't understand why, if FLocke wanted them all dead, he didn't let them get on the plane and start it up. You know, something like, "You guys go ahead and get started, I'll be right back."

And as far as FLocke putting the bomb in Jack's pack so he would take it into the sub, doesn't that seem like a stretch? I mean, even if he suspected Jack's "treachery", Jack still said he wasn't going with the others. Pretty lucky Widmore's flunkies shot Kate, making sure Jack HAD to get onto the sub, huh?
I think the reason why UnLocke didn't let the plane blow became evident when AlternaLocke revealed he had a pilot's license. UnLocke most likely possesses this knowledge now and will try to get off the island via the plane (at some point).


Or not.

I'm still sad over Jin and Sun so I may not be thinking straight.

My last best hope is that the alternate and island timelines do some kind of magical meshing thing and we see the friends we've come to know all shiny and new again.

[Merijeek]

I think the reason why UnLocke didn't let the plane blow became evident when AlternaLocke revealed he had a pilot's license. UnLocke most likely possesses this knowledge now and will try to get off the island via the plane (at some point).

Ooh! VERY good thinking. That's got to be it.

(golf clap)

-Joe

[Skott]

poor Ji Yeon. Orphaned already... :(
I kept thinking that Sun was going to tell Jin to go because he has a daughter to look out for! I'm very disappointed in her... acceptance of Jin's decision to stay. My wife would be really, really, REALLY pissed at me if I decided to stay when there's no hope of saving her. She wouldn't get all teary-eyed, "you're so romantic and I love you" if I said I was never going to be separated from her again; she'd curse the hell out of me, do anything to me to get me to leave and go take care of our daughter.

I guess we now know why Jacob said it was very important for Hurley to save Sayid.

Oh, and I certainly got a backgammon feeling when everyone piled into the submarine... almost like everyone was on the home board and ready to start bearing off.

[Morbo]

OK, anybody else totally call the point where Locke handed Jack the backpack? I knew the C4 was in there.

Yes, that was handled akwardly. Something way more subtle that people could've caught on rewatching it (and posting screenshots somewhere) would have been better.

I did like the touch of Smocke taking the wristwatch though.

[Blisters]

So...forgive me if I've missed something already posted...

Did Widmore's people rig the plane to explode? That seems the obvious answer, but weren't Richard/Miles/Ben headed back to the barracks to get some more explosives? What is it they were planning to blow up exactly?

Edit to add: agreed the bit about the backpack/C4 was awkward. I think I had about eleventy billion beers, and I called that one.

[Monstre]

I kept thinking that Sun was going to tell Jin to go because he has a daughter to look out for!
Yep, I was thinking the same thing -- "You two really aren't going to orphan Ji Yeon are you?!!" Tell him to get his ass out of there and go raise his daughter. Or cut off your leg or something and drag your torso to safety.

[jackdavinci]

Did Widmore's people rig the plane to explode?

I think so. Otherwise obvious plothole of why didn't Widmore just destroy the plane to prevent Smoky from leaving? Plus who else is responsible? We saw MIB dismantling it alone, so we know it's not him.

Of course the usual Lost complaint remains. If only people would share information, the whole series would be avoided. Particularly in this case. Ghost Jacob, tell Hurley how to make the candidate into the new Jacob, and wallah, MIB is defeated. Or even Widmore, you have a list, tell the people what you know about that list.

It's unfortunate that the entire series depends on unreliable information. And the bit about Jacob's "if I have to tell them what's right, it's pointless" is a cop out. Basic moral compass, OK people can take personal responsibility for that. But ultra-specific mythology involving a deceptive shape shifting monster? Sorry but that exceeds *anyone's* basic moral compass abilities and requires a PhD in ultra-specific moral situation reasoning.

Don't get me wrong, I loves me some Lost.

But more than anything, Lost reminds me of a game of Mu.

[ekweizn]

I have faith that the show-runners know what they're doing (cross fingers).

[Shark Sandwich]

Liked Sayid's death, HATED Jin and Sun's needless death--we spent...what? Three seasons waiting for them to get back together and they shared maybe 5 minutes of screentime before they died?


I thought this too, but then it made me realize why their reunion was so bland. The fanbase is going to be upset with Jin and Sun's death as it is, but can you imagine how much hate mail the directors/producers would be getting if they did some long, drawn out reunion on the beach in the last episode? Man, that would've just been...wrong.

Or I could be way off here. Maybe the creators of the show don't care since it's the last season.

[Dogzilla]

Something with Jughead happened in the original timeline. It was "the Incident." It didn't cause the island to sink (that happened in the alt), but it could certainly have leaked radioactive stuff into the environment that rendered women sterile.

Except that women weren't rendered sterile. Plenty got pregnant. Remember Juliet explaining that somewhere just before the third trimester, there was something about an immune system response and the women all died? Juliet wouldn't have ever been recruited to the island if the women were sterile and couldn't get pregnant at all. Note, there was nothing about stillbirths or miscarriages; the potential moms died before giving birth, which was why it was so important to get Sun off the island.

Sorry, no sterility!

[Shoeless]

Am I the only one who's starting to think that Widmore is working with Smokey instead of actually trying to stop him?

Remember the agreement between Sawyer and Widmore on the sub when Widmore asks "How do I know I can trust you?" and Sawyer says "Same way I know I can trust you." Sawyer was obviously planning to double-cross Widmore but Widmore may have been planning to double-cross the Candidates as well. Kate getting shot by Widmore's people may have just been part of the plan.

[JerseyMarine2092]

Some late night producer comments in the EW blog: http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/05/04/lost-producers-actors-candidate/

[Awgrimm]

Presumably he needs the plane for something. He can't seem to cross water on his own (unless all the rowing was a bluff), and with the sub gone he might still need the plane.

I guess, but unless my memory is off, FLocke handed Jack the C4 backpack before there were any shots fired. I guess he could have known Widmore's people were around, but it still seems like a stretch.

I think the reason why UnLocke didn't let the plane blow became evident when AlternaLocke revealed he had a pilot's license. UnLocke most likely possesses this knowledge now and will try to get off the island via the plane (at some point).

That makes a lot of sense, and yet it seems to me that if he'd allowed everyone to blow up with the plane, he still would have had the sub (and crew) to use to escape.

After the first couple of episodes, I thought I had figured out basically how things were going to end up. I don't know now if it's going to happen, but it's still possible.

Hurley will be the new Jacob. He's the only one who's really selfless. He's never really had alternative motives, etc. What you see is basically what you get.

The alt timeline will somehow be his "reward" to the other Losties. His attempt to fix things. I have no idea how he would have the power to pull this off, but it's just a hunch.

[Rachael Rage]

The thing I was most sad about was that I didn't feel sad about Jin & Sun (or Sayid or Lapidus). I loved Jin & Sun, but I think they were apart so long, and their reunion was so bland, and their ALT selves seem to be in good shape that their demise didn't matter much to me. But I, too, was pissed that they deliberately left Ji Yeon an orphan - unless they figured they'd never get back to the mainland anyway, in which case the result is the same.

As soon as the ALT timeline started, I felt like that was going to end up being the "real" reality and that it only really mattered how they turned out on that side. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if everyone we know and love on the island gets exterminated in favor of their better-off ALT selves.

I can't remember what's going on with Sayid's ALT self though - isn't he in jail or something? Poor Sayid! He can't catch a break this season.

[Bob Ducca]

Just read that the finale has been extended by a half hour, because they've filmed so much material. It'll now run on Sunday 5/23 from 9-1130p. Story here (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100505/tv_nm/us_lost).

[John Mace]

Yes, that was handled akwardly. Something way more subtle that people could've caught on rewatching it (and posting screenshots somewhere) would have been better.

I did like the touch of Smocke taking the wristwatch though.
Yeah, I was wondering what that was about.

[Edward The Head]

Just read that the finale has been extended by a half hour, because they've filmed so much material. It'll now run on Sunday 5/23 from 9-1130p. Story here (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100505/tv_nm/us_lost).

More material or more commercials? My DVR cuts commercials automatically and even the ones that are a few minutes longer, are the same as the rest of them, about 42 minutes. I can see an extra 20 minutes of commercials just because they know they have us.

[well he's back]

Does Sawyer realize he was partly to blame? well that sucks. except perhaps he can be more empathetic with Jack now.

[MsWhatsit]

Sawyer was pretty much totally to blame. If he hadn't cut the wires, the bomb wouldn't have exploded, Jin/Sun/Lapidus (maybe)/Sayid would still be alive, the sub wouldn't have sunk, etc.

[OpalCat]

I doubt that Locke's pilot license would cover flying a jumbo jet. Seeing as how he'd JUST gotten it and you start off flying things like little single prop planes and such. Just sayin'. I am also still confused as to how they were thinking they could get a jet off the ground with no runway.

[Dante]

As someone who knows nothing about demolitions (beyond CUT THE BLUE WIRE - IT'S ALWAYS THE BLUE WIRE), I've got a basic C4 question. Is there anything that would prevent someone from taking a knife and carving away a big chunk of the explosive?I've always wondered this myself. Can anyone clarify?

I'm annoyed about Sun and Jin, but what really annoys me is that there's absolutely no indication whatsoever of what happened to Frank. At least show his body drifting past the lovers' poetic hands or something.Just as they were showing the hands I imagined Lapidus drifting by with a "Weekend at Bernie's" look on his face. Made me giggle inappropriately. My wife may think I'm a sociopath...

[borschevsky]

I did like the touch of Smocke taking the wristwatch though.I'm trying to remember now - when did he take the watch? It was before he got on the plane, right? So why did he take the watch prior to finding the bomb? Did he know that the bomb would be there?

[Shoeless]

I doubt that Locke's pilot license would cover flying a jumbo jet. Seeing as how he'd JUST gotten it and you start off flying things like little single prop planes and such. Just sayin'. I am also still confused as to how they were thinking they could get a jet off the ground with no runway.

Yeah, I've been thinking all along that this whole "fly the jet off the island" thing is a red herring. If Frank Lapidus couldn't get that thing off the ground again, I doubt anyone else could.

[Meatros]

Sawyer was pretty much totally to blame. If he hadn't cut the wires, the bomb wouldn't have exploded, Jin/Sun/Lapidus (maybe)/Sayid would still be alive, the sub wouldn't have sunk, etc.


It kind of reminds me of the initial dynamic between Jack and Locke; ie, Jack was the skeptical one, Locke had faith. Now Jack has faith and Sawyer is the skeptical one...

[Meatros]

I don't understand why, if FLocke wanted them all dead, he didn't let them get on the plane and start it up. You know, something like, "You guys go ahead and get started, I'll be right back."

And as far as FLocke putting the bomb in Jack's pack so he would take it into the sub, doesn't that seem like a stretch? I mean, even if he suspected Jack's "treachery", Jack still said he wasn't going with the others. Pretty lucky Widmore's flunkies shot Kate, making sure Jack HAD to get onto the sub, huh?

I'm confused at this as well - why are Flocke and Widmore on (presumably) opposite sides, if they both want the losties dead?

[Baracus]

Am I the only one who's starting to think that Widmore is working with Smokey instead of actually trying to stop him?
I was kind of wondering why Smokey didn't go and wipe out the whole Widmore group while the sonic fence was down.

On the other hand, it would seem like if they were working together to off the Losties it could have been accomplished in a less complicated fashion. It also would make it unnecessary for Sayid to sneak in and capture Desmond. Not that they couldn't just hope that viewers not notice those details.

[wasson]

I'm confused at this as well - why are Flocke and Widmore on (presumably) opposite sides, if they both want the losties dead?Widmore said specifically in this episode he was trying to protect the candidates. He didn't care if Kate died because she wasn't one, but the rest of them he wanted to keep safe.

[Bob Ducca]

Yeah, I've been thinking all along that this whole "fly the jet off the island" thing is a red herring. If Frank Lapidus couldn't get that thing off the ground again, I doubt anyone else could.

Frank didn't seem that daunted with the idea of getting the plane off the ground, did he? When they found the plane he seemed more excited than anything.

[msmith537]

How deep was that sub when they got out? Nobody got the bends?

I would think the sub would be pressurized at or near sea level. If you haven't been breathing air pressurized at a lower depth, nitrogen bubbles wouldn't precipitate out when you surfaced. ergo, no bends.

[Merijeek]

I was kind of wondering why Smokey didn't go and wipe out the whole Widmore group while the sonic fence was down.

There have to be more rules. Ben didn't kill Widmore, he just exiled him. Ben didn't have Sayid kill Widmore once Alex was dead.

The tripod-mounted sonic fence was something that could been destroyed by a well-thrown tree trunk.

I don't think Smokey is allowed to kill Widmore.

-Joe

[Skott]

I am also still confused as to how they were thinking they could get a jet off the ground with no runway.

But there is a runway (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Runway). They'd mentioned having to turn the plane around first. They also said they'd have to repair it, since the windshield was broken. Not sure how they were going to do that, especially if the plan was for them to sneak on and take off without Widmore noticing.

Still curious who ordered the runway built...

[Meatros]

Widmore said specifically in this episode he was trying to protect the candidates. He didn't care if Kate died because she wasn't one, but the rest of them he wanted to keep safe.

So then why was the plane set with explosives?

If Widmore was going to just destroy it, it seems a little odd that he hadn't gotten around to it yet...

[jsc1953]

What was the musicbox playing? I couldn't tell, but if it was "Make Your Own Kind Of Music", that's creepy.

I wanted it to be "La Mer" ("Beyond the Sea"). Remember that little mystery from Season 1?

[FlightlessBird]

Did anyone catch Sayid's last line?
Sayid: <Stuff about Desmond>
Jack: Why are you telling me this?
Sayid: Because it's gonna be you, Jack.

Maybe I got it wrong, but it seems like non-zombie-Sayid may have some insight here.

[Dogzilla]

I'm trying to remember now - when did he take the watch? It was before he got on the plane, right? So why did he take the watch prior to finding the bomb? Did he know that the bomb would be there?

I think he might have because he seems to know what everyone on the island is up to whether he witnesses their activities or not. Therefore, he's probably pretty much tuned in to Richard & Co., who went off to rig the plane.

[Dogzilla]

So then why was the plane set with explosives?

If Widmore was going to just destroy it, it seems a little odd that he hadn't gotten around to it yet...

Richard and Miles (and a couple others?) went to rig the plane because Richard told everyone that Smokey must never be able to leave the island. So they went to go set the plane to blow up. IIRC, they were trying to convince the Losties that they didn't want to leave the island with Smokey because everyone we know and love will be dead if we let Smokey off the island..

[Merijeek]

I think he might have because he seems to know what everyone on the island is up to whether he witnesses their activities or not. Therefore, he's probably pretty much tuned in to Richard & Co., who went off to rig the plane.

I thought they went back to the barracks for grenades, because they didn't have any real demolitions explosives - which is why they needed to tote around unstable dynamite.

We haven't seen Frank in the ATL yet, have we?

-Joe

[Mahaloth]

Did anyone catch Sayid's last line?
Sayid: <Stuff about Desmond>
Jack: Why are you telling me this?
Sayid: Because it's gonna be you, Jack.


Is this the dialogue for sure? Anyone else catch this? I thought it was "It's gotta be you, Jack."

[phungi]

If I ever meet the producers, I'm going to punch them in the nose. Nobody makes my wife cry and gets away with it.

I was good with the first sentence alone...

[Skott]

Is this the dialogue for sure? Anyone else catch this? I thought it was "It's gotta be you, Jack."
Just watched that bit.

Sayid: Listen carefully: There's a well on the main island half a mile south of the camp we just left. Desmond's inside it. Locke wants him dead... which means you're going to need him, do you understand me?
Jack: And why are you tell me this?
Sayid: <beat> Because it's going to be you Jack.

The "going" is pronounced in a single syllable, kinda like "goin". But the line goes so fast, it could just as easily be "Because it's good to be you Jack."

Interesting that the producers didn't mention Frank (http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/05/04/lost-producers-actors-candidate/) among those they killed off last night.

[JerseyMarine2092]

But there is a runway (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Runway). They'd mentioned having to turn the plane around first. They also said they'd have to repair it, since the windshield was broken. Not sure how they were going to do that, especially if the plan was for them to sneak on and take off without Widmore noticing.

Still curious who ordered the runway built...

Well that Lostpedia article does say that the Producers said it was Jacob in one of the podcasts last year.

[Winston Bongo]

Did anyone catch Sayid's last line?
Sayid: <Stuff about Desmond>
Jack: Why are you telling me this?
Sayid: Because it's gonna be you, Jack.

Maybe I got it wrong, but it seems like non-zombie-Sayid may have some insight here.I also heard it as "It's going to be you, Jack" and interpreted that (plus the episode title) to be confirmation that Jack is indeed the final candidate to be the New Jacob. I think his actions at the end of the episode were a confirmation of this: he's the only one who is beginning to intuitively understand the "rules" of the Island, and more importantly, he had the faith to be willing to let that timer run down to zero. (Kind of like when Indiana Jones took the "leap of faith" onto that invisible walkway in The Last Crusade.) It was a final test to see if Jack was worthy of being Jacob 2.0, and he passed. Sawyer, on the other hand, flunked out big time.

At least that's how I interpreted that whole sequence.

[RainGrowsBrite]

All I know is that I was in shock about Sun and Jin until Hurley started crying on the beach. I just balled after that. Hurley hurting is just the worst.

[Morbo]

I'm trying to remember now - when did he take the watch? It was before he got on the plane, right? So why did he take the watch prior to finding the bomb? Did he know that the bomb would be there?

Yes, he grabbed the watch before he even walked into the plane. So he knew the explosives would be there and that he needed a timer. I'm positive they will explain how he knew.

Positive. ::nervous laugh::

[cmkeller]

Dogzilla:

Except that women weren't rendered sterile. Plenty got pregnant. Remember Juliet explaining that somewhere just before the third trimester, there was something about an immune system response and the women all died? Juliet wouldn't have ever been recruited to the island if the women were sterile and couldn't get pregnant at all. Note, there was nothing about stillbirths or miscarriages; the potential moms died before giving birth, which was why it was so important to get Sun off the island.

OK, then, not sterility. Some radiation-caused uterine disease. Maybe some form of cancer?

Or maybe I'm totally off-base, and the producers never meant for "The Incident" to be the explanation for the pregnant women problem at all.

[Merijeek]

Yes, he grabbed the watch before he even walked into the plane. So he knew the explosives would be there and that he needed a timer. I'm positive they will explain how he knew.

Positive. ::nervous laugh::

It was a very clumsy trap. There was also no reason for Widmore to keep guards there to die "to keep up appearances"...right after he had moved the pylons away from keeping smokey from the plane.

There's a huge hole here, and I'm relatively confident that when we learn the true motives between Widmore and Smokey it'll become clearer.

-Joe

[OpalCat]

All I know is that I was in shock about Sun and Jin until Hurley started crying on the beach. I just balled after that. Hurley hurting is just the worst.

Well that's an odd reaction! :eek: Now, bawling, I could undertsand... :p

[Icarus]

Didn't there used to be a guy named 'Ben' in this show? He seemed pretty important for a while.

[Shoeless]

I also heard it as "It's going to be you, Jack" and interpreted that (plus the episode title) to be confirmation that Jack is indeed the final candidate to be the New Jacob.

I can see the last scene in the series finale: Jack is appointed to be the New Jacob and looks over to see ghost Obi Wan Jacob and ghost Anakin Christian and ghost Yoda Sayid smiling and waving at him.

Maybe one last "Dude..." from Hurley.

Then fade to black.

[Merijeek]

Didn't there used to be a guy named 'Ben' in this show? He seemed pretty important for a while.

I expect that he and his companions will be bumping into the waterlogged survivors any minute now.

I knoW everyone thinks that either Hurley or Jack is going to be the new Jacob. I almost wonder if it isn't going to be Ben. He seems to be pretty repentant. I wonder if he will volunteer to be the Corkblocker for the sake of keeping Smokey on the island.

-Joe

[Dogzilla]

OK, then, not sterility. Some radiation-caused uterine disease. Maybe some form of cancer?

Or maybe I'm totally off-base, and the producers never meant for "The Incident" to be the explanation for the pregnant women problem at all.

Nope. Not cancer. From Lostpedia (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Juliet):
Soon after she accomplished this miracle, Richard Alpert and Ethan Rom began to recruit her to do some very specific fertility research. Once on the Island, Juliet was directed to resolve the reproductive problems of the Others. She began an affair with Goodwin Stanhope, prompting jealous Ben to have Stanhope killed after the crash of 815. After the first 6 months, Juliet wished to return to her home and family. She wanted to be present when her sister Rachel gave birth. However, Ben prolonged her stay on the island indefinitely by offering to cure Rachel's cancer if Juliet would stay. Having seen some unusual things on the Island, Juliet believed there was a chance these people might be able to cure cancer, as the Island inhabitants were cancer free, so she stayed for the sake of her sister.

And:
Juliet said she thought the problems occurred at conception, but the only way to be sure would be to take one of the women off the Island.

Then:
After a few days, Sun angrily confronted Juliet and asked her what happened to pregnant women on the Island. Juliet told her they all died, and later that night woke Sun and told her there may still be hope for her. She took her to the Staff, telling Sun the last nine pregnant women she had examined were dead, and she wanted to give someone good news for once. She examined Sun, hoping to find she had conceived off the Island, and was devastated to learn otherwise.

[RainGrowsBrite]

Well that's an odd reaction! :eek: Now, bawling, I could undertsand... :p

Ive been watching too much basketball lately... :D

[PaperBlob]

Why was the pregnancy/death problem such a big deal for the Others? They had the ability to leave the island via submarine, so why couldn't they just take the moms-to-be off-island until they gave birth? I can understand wanting to solve the problem medically just because, but why risk the moms' lives if you don't have to? Or am I missing/forgetting something here?

ETA: I see from Dogzilla's post that Juliet thought of this. Was it ever explained why taking moms off the island wasn't an option? It worked out OK for Sun.

[Dogzilla]

ETA: I see from Dogzilla's post that Juliet thought of this. Was it ever explained why taking moms off the island wasn't an option? It worked out OK for Sun.

To my knowledge, no, that was never explained.

Still doesn't make sense to me how some people seemed to be able to come and go as they pleased (Richard Alpert comes to mind), yet pregnant women in danger of dying... not so much.

[Stoid]

Sun & Jin = Really Really Bad. Sucked massively all by itself.

But what also sucked is this: I don't believe that Sun wouldn't have said to Jin: "You HAVE to live for OUR DAUGHTER." Both of them totally forgot the kid.

But back to it sucking all by itself...MAN it sucked.

[StarvingButStrong]

Wasn't there a prior link between Claire and "Catch a Falling Star"? Like she told Charlie her mother used to sing it to her, or maybe she sung it to Aaron or something? I don't recall the details, but I'm sure it came up at some point.

[aaelghat]

Wasn't there a prior link between Claire and "Catch a Falling Star"? Like she told Charlie her mother used to sing it to her, or maybe she sung it to Aaron or something? I don't recall the details, but I'm sure it came up at some point.

According to the Tail Section (http://www.thetailsection.com/)...

“Catch a Falling Star” - This song plays in the music box Christian left Claire. It’s the song he used to sing to her as a child and one Claire asked the baby’s adoptive parents to sing to her son.

[Morbo]

Am I the only one who thought that box held something important, and it would be locked, and then the key would mystically get discovered somewhere later, and they'd both open it together and...what the hell has this show done to me?

Also, both Claire and Jack looked in the mirrored lid of it, for those of you keeping "mirror" tabs.

[Fenris]

I just had a half-assed speculation about who Jacob and the MIB are.

MIB is Crazy Claire's Aaron, all growed up. Hence the "Don't let him be raised by another" prophecy.

Jacob is Alt-Claire's Aaron--raised by her.

[Rushgeekgirl]

I expect that he and his companions will be bumping into the waterlogged survivors any minute now.

I knoW everyone thinks that either Hurley or Jack is going to be the new Jacob. I almost wonder if it isn't going to be Ben. He seems to be pretty repentant. I wonder if he will volunteer to be the Corkblocker for the sake of keeping Smokey on the island.

-Joe

I don't think that. I think Locke is the candidate. Living Locke. From the ATL. I think they will go to the island somehow. Maybe at some point Mrs. Hawking have them all together with the proper coordinates.
Perhaps the last flight didn't work because Locke was dead and even wearing Christian's shoes didn't help him.

This show is friggen insane. I will miss it.

[Nan Sequitur]

Just watched that bit.

Quote:
Sayid: Listen carefully: There's a well on the main island half a mile south of the camp we just left. Desmond's inside it. Locke wants him dead... which means you're going to need him, do you understand me?
Jack: And why are you tell me this?
Sayid: <beat> Because it's going to be you Jack.


Having some memory problems, and my head feels like it's full of bees after this episode, but has anybody other than Desmond time traveled off the island without their corporeal bodies? Faraday, I think, but anyone still alive on the island?

[jackdavinci]

Or maybe I'm totally off-base, and the producers never meant for "The Incident" to be the explanation for the pregnant women problem at all.

It's not the incident per se - it's the fact that the incident made a huge hole from which electromagnetic energy is being released, every 108 minutes from the Swan.

Still doesn't make sense to me how some people seemed to be able to come and go as they pleased (Richard Alpert comes to mind), yet pregnant women in danger of dying... not so much.

We've seen that the Others are isolationists. Locke implies that in addition to that, they are also supposed to be somewhat Luddite. Most of the external technologies are Dharma artifacts that they've taken over. There were of course earlier technologies from the Egyptians, but Jacob says that they all killed themselves out. And there's certainly opposition to Ben's pregnancy project, but since he's leader he gets to overrule that. The fact that Ben is able to get cancer is seen as evidence that his off island jaunts, use of Dharma tech, and pregnancy project might not be kosher.

[Shark Sandwich]

I just had a half-assed speculation about who Jacob and the MIB are.

MIB is Crazy Claire's Aaron, all growed up. Hence the "Don't let him be raised by another" prophecy.

Jacob is Alt-Claire's Aaron--raised by her.

I like this theory, but so far we haven't seen the time lines converge other than memories. When someone bridges the gap, I'm on board with this.

[Monstre]

I doubt that Locke's pilot license would cover flying a jumbo jet. Seeing as how he'd JUST gotten it and you start off flying things like little single prop planes and such. Just sayin'. I am also still confused as to how they were thinking they could get a jet off the ground with no runway.
Well, technically there IS a runway (it's the runway strip on the Hydra island that polar-bear-caged Sawyer and Kate were forced to help build in season 3), but I'm not convinced it's big enough or long enough (or smooth enough) for a commercial jet. Especially one that made an emergency landing, took some major bumps, and ended up with a tree through the front window (and through the co-pilot).

I'm confused at this as well - why are Flocke and Widmore on (presumably) opposite sides, if they both want the losties dead?
It could be that Widmore just wants everybody dead, and he just wants the island all to himself, for his own control and exploitation.

I just had a half-assed speculation about who Jacob and the MIB are.
MIB is Crazy Claire's Aaron, all growed up. Hence the "Don't let him be raised by another" prophecy.
Jacob is Alt-Claire's Aaron--raised by her.
Well, I've seen the theory of MIB = Aaron before. Which I've been kind of leaning towards, too. Interesting notion on Jacob, though.

[Merijeek]

Well, technically there IS a runway (it's the runway strip on the Hydra island that polar-bear-caged Sawyer and Kate were forced to help build in season 3), but I'm not convinced it's big enough or long enough (or smooth enough) for a commercial jet. Especially one that made an emergency landing, took some major bumps, and ended up with a tree through the front window

Nothing a montage can't fix!


(and through the co-pilot).


...and a ShamWow.

-Joe

[N9IWP]

It was also nice to have in show confirmation that Kate's name was on the cave wall (but crossed off)

Brian

[Blisters]

Am I the only one who thought that box held something important, and it would be locked, and then the key would mystically get discovered somewhere later, and they'd both open it together and...what the hell has this show done to me?

Also, both Claire and Jack looked in the mirrored lid of it, for those of you keeping "mirror" tabs.

I thought it might be a throwback to Rousseau's music box, though I don't think they were similar...Another crazy mother connection?

[Jihi]

I just had a half-assed speculation about who Jacob and the MIB are.

MIB is Crazy Claire's Aaron, all growed up. Hence the "Don't let him be raised by another" prophecy.

Jacob is Alt-Claire's Aaron--raised by her.

I hadn't considered it before, but I really like this idea. It has a symmetry to it that certainly fits the shows MO. And, given Jacob's physical appearance, he does look like he could be Claire's adult son. We've seen Aaron's father haven't we? What did he look like? One of the showrunners stated outright that Jacob has never appeared as anyone else, (in contrast to Smokey), so I think we can make the assumption that Jacob doesn't make a habit of taking the shape of other people, even if he has the ability to do so, (an assumption supported by his statement to Richard about not interfering with people's choices.). The only problem with this is that this means Jacob and Smokey should be physically identical in their 'natural forms', but that's easily explained through Smokey being locked in a previous appearance much like he is with Locke now.

It creates a circular loop with the entire situation on the island being a product of 815's original crash creating the entire scenario. It's not entirely logical, but it makes a certain thematic sense within the show.

I'm not sure how I feel about that. Since the end of season 5 I've been operating under the idea that Jacob and Smokey have been locked in a philosophical battle that our Losties are destined to bring to a conclusion. ("It only ends once. Everything else is progress.") If Jacob and Smokey are both Aaron than that means this is only a stopgap and the two of them will continue to be locked in that same battle with someone else taking Jacob's place. (Jack, Hurley, Ben, someone else?)

I know that's where the whole 'candidate' stuff appears to be going though. Maybe it's a case of 'eternal vigilance'?

[Merijeek]

I'm not sure how I feel about that. Since the end of season 5 I've been operating under the idea that Jacob and Smokey have been locked in a philosophical battle that our Losties are destined to bring to a conclusion. ("It only ends once. Everything else is progress.") If Jacob and Smokey are both Aaron than that means this is only a stopgap and the two of them will continue to be locked in that same battle with someone else taking Jacob's place. (Jack, Hurley, Ben, someone else?)


Still, Jacob and Smokey have been on the island for hundreds of years. Something is going to need to launch Aaron/Jacob/GoateeJacob back in time if this theory holds.

Silly queston - do we have a middle name for Aaron Littleton?

-Joe

[Jihi]

Still, Jacob and Smokey have been on the island for hundreds of years. Something is going to need to launch Aaron/Jacob/GoateeJacob back in time if this theory holds.


I've thought about that, and given that time travel has become an integral part of the show since season 4, it seems entirely plausible.

At this point, I'm looking out heavily for anyone who looks even slightly like Smokey in either the ATL or the original TL.

[Frostillicus]

Based on this week's show, I get the feeling that all of the island Losties are going to end up dead, leaving the alt-timeline Losties to get on with their lives back in the real world.

[BlackKnight]

Yes, he grabbed the watch before he even walked into the plane.
Maybe it was just a really nice watch? I mean, if you're going to snap someone's neck, you might as well rob them as well. :D

(Actually, the sarcastic comment that came to mind at that scene: "Good idea, Locke! Now they'll think it was just a random mugging. They'll never suspect it was you.")

[Pigs in Space]

Still doesn't make sense to me how some people seemed to be able to come and go as they pleased (Richard Alpert comes to mind), yet pregnant women in danger of dying... not so much.

Because Ben is a fanatical control freak with a thing for Juliet? Best explanation I've got.

[OneChance]

Yeah, I've been thinking all along that this whole "fly the jet off the island" thing is a red herring. If Frank Lapidus couldn't get that thing off the ground again, I doubt anyone else could.Except for the pilot Smokey killed in season 1. Maybe Smokey now has all of the experiences and knowledge of that pilot.

[maikai]

Is it possible that the Island was done with the Others and prevented the women from having children so that the Others would die out eventually?

[curwin]

Am I the only one who's starting to think that Widmore is working with Smokey instead of actually trying to stop him?

Remember the agreement between Sawyer and Widmore on the sub when Widmore asks "How do I know I can trust you?" and Sawyer says "Same way I know I can trust you." Sawyer was obviously planning to double-cross Widmore but Widmore may have been planning to double-cross the Candidates as well. Kate getting shot by Widmore's people may have just been part of the plan.

Here's one more reason to suspect that Widmore and MIB are working together:

Naomi (who worked for Abadon who worked for Widmore) and Bram (who worked for Ilana who worked for Jacob), both tried to recruit Miles. That would seem to indicate that Widmore and Jacob are at odds with each other. We know that MIB and Jacob are enemies - so that might mean that Widmore and MIB are aligned.

[Koxinga]

Just wanted to make a post I've been anticipating for a year and a half, ever since I began with Season 1 in Feb. 2009.

Just watched 6X14 online and . . .

I'M FINALLY CAUGHT UP! I'M WITH YOU NOW! I CAN OPEN THESE THREADS WITH NO FEAR OF SPOILERS!

Except Sun and Jin are dead. That made me angry. And there's less than a month left.

[Unauthorized Cinnamon]

Like others, I was annoyed rather than saddened by Sun and Jin dying. I kept waiting for Sun to invoke her daughter to get Jin out of there, and honestly the only reason I can think why she didn't is It's In The Script. They either wanted to mine maximum pathos out their end-of-series ability to off characters, or they wanted potential candidates pared down (and to dispose of the "which Kwon?" question).

As for the plane/sub thing - it seems obvious to me that Flocke doesn't need a physical conveyance to get off the island. He needs Jacob and all candidates to be dead, then he can get off the island by supernatural means. He just needed the idea of getting off island to manipulate them into killing themselves.

In fact, when they came upon the plane, I fully expected Lapidus assess the plane and say, "Yeah, we're not going anywhere in that."

I feel bad for Sawyer - he made the wrong choice, and some lovely people died because of it. But it wasn't really negligent or anything - he's just still functioning on rationality instead of faith in the island, which is forgivable.

[JohnT]

Like others, I was annoyed rather than saddened by Sun and Jin dying. I kept waiting for Sun to invoke her daughter to get Jin out of there, and honestly the only reason I can think why she didn't is It's In The Script. They either wanted to mine maximum pathos out their end-of-series ability to off characters, or they wanted potential candidates pared down (and to dispose of the "which Kwon?" question).

My theories:

1. The script was written by male with no kids. "Oh, yeah - forgot about the baby."
2. It's sloppy writing because whoever wrote it "knows" that "live for the baby" is moot, that the ATL timeline will resolve to be the "real" timeline and that the kid will no longer exist.
3. They (the screenwriters) have to get to a place in a certain amount of time. Having Jin alive makes things more complicated and screws up their plotting. So they purposely didn't write the line, hoping that nobody (Ha!) would catch it.
4. The screenwriters are like "What are we going to do with the Kwon's?" "I'm tired of jiggling all these characters and time is running out - let's kill them." "What about the baby?" "Fuck it. We've only got 5 more hours of show left, who gives a crap? Me, I just want to be done so I can start collecting my royalties."

[silenus]

I'm betting it's a combination of #2 & #4. It isn't #1, because they were seen talking about the kid earlier in the episode. They also know how anal the viewers are, so it can't be #3.

[JohnT]

Thanks to many years of flying, whenever I'm in these Lost threads I keep on reading about the "Atlanta Timeline." ;)

[Bob Ducca]

If Jin had left Sun, would he have even had much of a chance to make it to the surface? The sub was sinking and Jack took the last oxygen tank. Maybe Jin figured that if he was going to likely die anyway, he may as well die with his wife. Plus, he probably didn't think his odds of surviving on the island were that great, and the odds of leaving it to actually see his daughter again weren't even worth thinking about. If I'm Jin, weighing all of those factors - I'd probably stay too.

[Bob Ducca]

Also, I suppose Sun should have mentioned their daughter and all that - but did she say much while she was trapped? If I remember right she seemed pretty much in shock and didn't say much of anything except "Go."

[ElectricZ]

My theories:

1. The script was written by male with no kids. "Oh, yeah - forgot about the baby."
2. It's sloppy writing because whoever wrote it "knows" that "live for the baby" is moot, that the ATL timeline will resolve to be the "real" timeline and that the kid will no longer exist.
3. They (the screenwriters) have to get to a place in a certain amount of time. Having Jin alive makes things more complicated and screws up their plotting. So they purposely didn't write the line, hoping that nobody (Ha!) would catch it.
4. The screenwriters are like "What are we going to do with the Kwon's?" "I'm tired of jiggling all these characters and time is running out - let's kill them." "What about the baby?" "Fuck it. We've only got 5 more hours of show left, who gives a crap? Me, I just want to be done so I can start collecting my royalties."

Poor justification (I think Sun should also have invoked the kid) is that Jin knew and decided to stay with his wife anyway. He just recently found out he even had a daughter and had only seen her picture. On the other hand, he had finally been reuinited with his wife, the woman he'd loved and sacrificed everything for and he decided he would not leave her ever again. I could see that overriding paternal instincts.

It reminds me a bit of a tragic case where a car crashed into a lake (http://www.allvoices.com/s/event-4709570/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5zdHVmZi5jby5uei9uYXRpb25hbC8zMTA3NzAzL0ZhdGhlcnMtY2hvaWNlLXNhdmUtc29uLW9yLXdpZmU=) and a man could save only one other person in the car: his wife or his son. He saved his wife.

Again, not saying it was well thought out or executed by the writers, but it's not unrealistic.

[Merijeek]

It reminds me a bit of a tragic case where a car crashed into a lake (http://www.allvoices.com/s/event-4709570/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5zdHVmZi5jby5uei9uYXRpb25hbC8zMTA3NzAzL0ZhdGhlcnMtY2hvaWNlLXNhdmUtc29uLW9yLXdpZmU=) and a man could save only one other person in the car: his wife or his son. He saved his wife.

Again, not saying it was well thought out or executed by the writers, but it's not unrealistic.

I guess they hadn't thought about it ahead of time, but when fictional stories bring up such things I point out to the wife that I'd choose the kid without any hesitation and that she'd damned well better do the same were the situation reversed.

-Joe

[VunderBob]

I guess they hadn't thought about it ahead of time, but when fictional stories bring up such things I point out to the wife that I'd choose the kid without any hesitation and that she'd damned well better do the same were the situation reversed.

-Joe
All this makes for entertaining film and literature, but IRL the cold, hard answer is you *ALWAYS* rescue people in increasing order of difficulty. Going for the tough ones first almost guarantees two dead victims and probably the rescuer(s).

Back to Lost. My theory is that everyone on the island dies in order to fix the alternate reality paradox.

[phungi]

I guess they hadn't thought about it ahead of time, but when fictional stories bring up such things I point out to the wife that I'd choose the kid without any hesitation and that she'd damned well better do the same were the situation reversed.

-Joe
I know we are on a minor tangent, but the man in the link was in a very different situation than "choose between your wife and son" or (akin to Jin and Sun) "choose between your wife in the present of the possibility of being a father to your daughter in the future."

If I read correctly, he ultimately chose to save his wife rather than letting both his wife and son die... his wife was in front of him screaming and struggling, and his son was trapped... he DID choose the son, but could not get to him, and then opted to save his wife... ("I tried to get down and get him but I couldn't, it was just too deep. And Vanessa was going under")

As for Jin, I was shocked he opted to stay with Sun...

[enalzi]

I wasn't surprised at all. He doesn't know Ji Yeon at all, and after the sub sank it's very unlikely that they'll be getting off the island at all.

[John Mace]

Why was the pregnancy/death problem such a big deal for the Others? They had the ability to leave the island via submarine, so why couldn't they just take the moms-to-be off-island until they gave birth? I can understand wanting to solve the problem medically just because, but why risk the moms' lives if you don't have to? Or am I missing/forgetting something here?

ETA: I see from Dogzilla's post that Juliet thought of this. Was it ever explained why taking moms off the island wasn't an option? It worked out OK for Sun.
It's complicated.

[SenorBeef]

This was supposed to be a tearjerker I assume, but I can't say I was moved at all. It's just.... it's hard to even care about the characters at this point since they're just arbitrarily jerked around to serve the plot, and besides that, there's not much of a sense of finality to it. We could use the magical goobledegook next episode and woop everyone is alive again. Maybe their alternate time line selves are alive and happy.

Dunno, just... after being manipulated like crazy and jerked around I'm pretty much completely numb to anything the show can throw at me. Anyone feel similarly?

[MsWhatsit]

Dunno, just... after being manipulated like crazy and jerked around I'm pretty much completely numb to anything the show can throw at me. Anyone feel similarly?

Yes. During the scene of Sun and Jin drifting lifelessly away from each other, I thought, "Huh, I guess this is supposed to be really emotional." I honestly didn't give a crap. It was just so ridiculously manipulative, with the characters spending the whole season trying to find each other, and then finding each other, and then this. Although, I've certainly watched TV before where I knew full well that the show producers were manipulating us into feeling emotional, and still felt some emotion for characters that I cared about, so the fact that it didn't happen this time I think says something about how little I am invested in the characters on Lost these days. There's been too much jerking our chains with plot twists that go nowhere, too many character about-faces, and just some really poor storytelling, IMO. The closer we get to the end of the season, the more irritable I get.

[Unauthorized Cinnamon]

Dunno, just... after being manipulated like crazy and jerked around I'm pretty much completely numb to anything the show can throw at me. Anyone feel similarly?Yes. And to give you a gauge of my emotional manipulability by hackneyed, predictable fiction, I cried my eyes out at Avatar. So this had to be pretty bad not to suck me in.

[Saint Cad]

I just had a half-assed speculation about who Jacob and the MIB are.

MIB is Crazy Claire's Aaron, all growed up. Hence the "Don't let him be raised by another" prophecy.

Jacob is Alt-Claire's Aaron--raised by her.

Which would also explain why his name is name is never mentioned in the show.
<Jack> What's your name? Schmoky McSchmokerson?
<MiB> It's Jacob.
<Jack> Wait a minute. I thought the other guy was Jacob.
<MiB> He is.
<Jack> I'm confused.
<MiB> He is me and I am him.
<Jack> And we are all together (hums "I am the Walrus")
<MiB> >.<

[bouv]

I'm guessing that in the Alt timeline, Smokey is actually loose, since in that timeline all the candidates and everyone on the island is at the bottom of the ocean.

Huh? All the candidates are off living normal lives. jack is still doctoring, Sayid is still killing, Jin and Sun are still boinking, etc...

Unles you mean all the candidates that existed before them that were already on the island pre-explosion. But what if the explosion took out Smokey/MiB too?

[Ellis Dee]

2. It's sloppy writing because whoever wrote it "knows" that "live for the baby" is moot, that the ATL timeline will resolve to be the "real" timeline and that the kid will no longer exist. The kid exists in the ALT timeline; it just hasn't been born yet. (Remember the ALT timeline is 3 years behind.)This was supposed to be a tearjerker I assume, but I can't say I was moved at all. It's just.... it's hard to even care about the characters at this point since they're just arbitrarily jerked around to serve the plot, and besides that, there's not much of a sense of finality to it. We could use the magical goobledegook next episode and woop everyone is alive again. Maybe their alternate time line selves are alive and happy.

Dunno, just... after being manipulated like crazy and jerked around I'm pretty much completely numb to anything the show can throw at me. Anyone feel similarly?
My thoughts exactly.

[JohnT]

I agree with SenorBeef as well. Seeing the way they died, especially with no mention of the child, irritated me quite a bit. I turned to my wife and said "When I rewatch this, now I know I can fast-forward through all the off-island Sun/Jin stuff." Though whether their ATL-selves are happy - wasn't the last time we saw Sun was when she was shot and being taken into the emergency room?

However, I still think the worst resolution of the problem that occurs when a childs existence becomes problematic to the show was the X-Files where, to protect her son from an international (nay, interstellar) conspiracy, Scully dumps him on some unsuspecting farmer in the middle of GodKnowsWhere, Montana.

:rolleyes: X 100

[Ellis Dee]

Though whether their ATL-selves are happy - wasn't the last time we saw Sun was when she was shot and being taken into the emergency room?The chronologically latest time we saw them in the ALT timeline, Sun woke up from surgery with Jin by her side, who told her that both she and the baby were fine and they could now start their life together.

[middleman]

Jin walked past Jack in the hallway of the hospital in this episode.

[oliversarmy]

In ATL, who is Jack's wife?

[Justin_Bailey]

In ATL, who is Jack's wife?

She's never been shown.

And it's not Kate, because she would have been about 12 when Jack's son was born.

[JohnT]

The chronologically latest time we saw them in the ALT timeline, Sun woke up from surgery with Jin by her side, who told her that both she and the baby were fine and they could now start their life together.

That's right... I completely forgot.

[Ellis Dee]

In ATL, who is Jack's wife?Presumably Julie Bowen, just like in the original timeline. Remember that he's divorced in both timelines so it would be inconsistent if he had a different ex-wife in the two timelines.

It's worth pointing out that Julie Bowen's new show Modern Family went to shoot on location in Hawaii for the episode that airs this Wednesday, meaning if they wanted to have her appear on Lost in the next couple weeks she just happened to be in the neighborhood.

[enalzi]

Presumably Julie Bowen, just like in the original timeline. Remember that he's divorced in both timelines so it would be inconsistent if he had a different ex-wife in the two timelines.


Except for the fact that he has a son, which is a huge change in this timeline. No reason to think he would have the same wife. And the fact that they've yet to even say her name implies it's someone we know. Big money is on Juliet.

[Ellis Dee]

Except for the fact that he has a son, which is a huge change in this timeline. No reason to think he would have the same wife.Locke is on good terms with his father, which is a huge change in this timeline. He still had the same wife.

I think the fact that they've yet to say her name is because they weren't sure they could get Julie Bowen.

Can you name a single character who has a different SO in the two timelines? Even Sayid has the same SO despite the fact that she married his brother. Desmond and Penny are drawn to each other regardless of timeline. And Hurley's crushing on the same mental patient in both timelines.

I just think it would be way out of character and highly inconsistent for the show to all of a sudden give Jack a different ex-wife in the two timelines.

To play devil's advocate for a minute, did Daniel ever meet Charlotte in the ALT timeline, or was the only time we saw her when she was rummaging through Sawyer's drawers? And have Claire and Charlie crossed paths?

[MsWhatsit]

Well, it wouldn't be inconsistent for the show to give Jack a different ex-wife if the reason was that the different ex-wife was a big shocking reveal because it's a character we already know. That would be totally consistent for this show.

[borschevsky]

To play devil's advocate for a minute, did Daniel ever meet Charlotte in the ALT timeline, or was the only time we saw her when she was rummaging through Sawyer's drawers? And have Claire and Charlie crossed paths?Daniel met Charlotte in the ATL, but it was offscreen. He told Desmond about it when they met in Desmond's episode. I don't think Charlie has met Claire, but he presumably is looking for her since he had the vision of her on the plane.

My guess is that Jack's ex-wife is Juliet. It would certainly be in keeping with the style of the show.

[John Mace]

My guess is that Jack's ex-wife is Juliet. It would certainly be in keeping with the style of the show.

Yeah, but she's really a reptile alien!

[singular1]

This was supposed to be a tearjerker I assume, but I can't say I was moved at all. It's just.... it's hard to even care about the characters at this point since they're just arbitrarily jerked around to serve the plot, and besides that, there's not much of a sense of finality to it. We could use the magical goobledegook next episode and woop everyone is alive again. Maybe their alternate time line selves are alive and happy.

Dunno, just... after being manipulated like crazy and jerked around I'm pretty much completely numb to anything the show can throw at me. Anyone feel similarly?Somewhat late to the party, but yeah, that's how I felt. I was more touched by Hurley crying than anything else in this episode.

[middleman]

I imagine it was fairly easy for Fox, Garcia, and Lilly to summon the emotion to film the beach crying scene. Even at this late date, how tough it must be to find out that even one of the main cast was killed off. Let alone three orginals.

Coupled with the end of an era sort of series, I'll bet it was an emtional moment in real life.

[curwin]

The producers talk here (http://ll.media.abc.com/podcast/audio/itunes/LOST_615_audio_podcast_55d80edf-b6b4-4b0a-b7e2-9df63693cef3_2944555.mp3) about some of the points discussed in the thread: why the Losties didn't react to Lapidus dying, why Jin didn't leave Sun for their child, etc.

[Merijeek]

Locke is on good terms with his father, which is a huge change in this timeline. He still had the same wife.


Locke's dad seemed to be a great guy up until he got the kidney he needed. For all we know, he just hadn't gotten Locke to sign before the plane crash.

The producers talk here (http://ll.media.abc.com/podcast/audio/itunes/LOST_615_audio_podcast_55d80edf-b6b4-4b0a-b7e2-9df63693cef3_2944555.mp3) about some of the points discussed in the thread: why the Losties didn't react to Lapidus dying, why Jin didn't leave Sun for their child, etc.

Not going to bother listening to that.

Frank is certainly dead then?

-Joe

[Sir Prize]

It was also nice to have in show confirmation that Kate's name was on the cave wall (but crossed off) Kate's name was not crossed out in the lighthouse. Jacob is faking out MiB and apparently Widmore
Locke is on good terms with his father, which is a huge change in this timeline. He still had the same wife.The alt timeline really is wish fulfillment (but be careful what you wish for). We are told outright that for Desmond it's his desire to be appreciated by Widmore. Hurley doesn't have the numbers curse and gets Libby. Locke keeps his wife and never has to find out that his father was using him. Jack has a son. Sayid's lover is still alive. Kate didn't really kill anyone. Sawyer didn't go into a life of crime. Claire hasn't been "spoiled" Charlie is alive. Ben has a good relationship with his father and gets to be a good person.

I think that the alt timeline is what the MiB will offer them. They will have to turn it down to save the world.

[John Mace]

Kate's name was not crossed out in the lighthouse. Jacob is faking out MiB and apparently Widmore
The alt timeline really is wish fulfillment (but be careful what you wish for). We are told outright that for Desmond it's his desire to be appreciated by Widmore. Hurley doesn't have the numbers curse and gets Libby. Locke keeps his wife and never has to find out that his father was using him. Jack has a son. Sayid's lover is still alive. Kate didn't really kill anyone. Sawyer didn't go into a life of crime. Claire hasn't been "spoiled" Charlie is alive. Ben has a good relationship with his father and gets to be a good person.

I think that the alt timeline is what the MiB will offer them. They will have to turn it down to save the world.

Interesting thought. I re-watched this episode last night, and I noticed that Jack seemed to be waking up from a dream when they first switched from Alt-time line to Island time line. Has this happened before? Are the Losties dreaming about the ATL while they are on the Island? Maybe that was just a one-off with Jack.

[Justin Credible]

Not going to bother listening to that.

Frank is certainly dead then?

-Joe

Man I shouldn't have listened to that either. They sound like a couple of snivelly, self-indulgent pricks.
It does sound like Frank is dead, unfortunately. They mention that the Losties didn't mention him because they didn't have as strong an emotional attachment to him and because no one actually saw him die. Maybe that last statement is a little tongue-in-cheek hint that he's alive and well and will wash up on the beach in the next episode, but I don't hold out any real hope for that.

[Sam Stone]

A couple of months ago I posted a theory that is starting to look more and more likely to me - the nuclear bomb created the second timeline, which is the 'correct' one. The main timeline we've been watching is slowly winding down, and everyone in it is dying, while in the other timeline, they are just starting to gather together.

Where I think this might be going is that as the main timeline starts to collapse, the characters in the alt-timeline will start remembering more and more about the island. Eventually, they'll merge into one timeline with everyone saved. In other words, the nuclear bomb worked, but the old timeline's characters still have work to do to see it through to completion.

That's one way they can kill off the main characters like Sun and Jin, while not really killing them off. I wouldn't be surprised if we have a scene where the alt-timeline Sun and Jin wake up from a sleep after having 'nightmares' about drowning in the sub, and suddenly realize that they have memories of both timelines (like Desmond), and are now fully alt-Sun and Jin and original Sun and Jin.

Cue last scene of the series, where all the characters get together in a big reunion, including Charlie, Libby, and all the other dead Losties who never died in the alt-timeline.

So then the question is, if Jack is the one who has to remain to be the main timeline's new Jacob, what happens to Alt-Jack? Does he die? Or does he become a Jacob-like character, able to teleport off the island and maybe even between timelines? Maybe alt-Jack will go the other way - instead of 'remembering' his other timeline, the Jack in the other timeline will start 'remembering' alt-Jack's memories, and they'll merge together on the island while the rest die off and become themselves back on the mainland.

Of course, now that I've said this, it will all turn out to be laughably wrong.

[TBG]

It's worth pointing out that Julie Bowen's new show Modern Family went to shoot on location in Hawaii for the episode that airs this Wednesday, meaning if they wanted to have her appear on Lost in the next couple weeks she just happened to be in the neighborhood.

And in the previous episode, set in the airport en route to Hawaii, her character's son made a funny comment to her about how cool it would be if their plane wound up crashing on an island "like on Lost". It was funny both because she's been on Lost and because her character was freaking out about flying.

[Rushgeekgirl]

And in the previous episode, set in the airport en route to Hawaii, her character's son made a funny comment to her about how cool it would be if their plane wound up crashing on an island "like on Lost". It was funny both because she's been on Lost and because her character was freaking out about flying.

Oh wow I just realized who Julie Bowen was. Did not remember her as being on Lost and I'm a fan of both shows!

[Monstre]

Has this happened before? Are the Losties dreaming about the ATL while they are on the Island?
That would be difficult for a few of them to do, considering that they are dead (and have been for a while in some cases, like Charlie and Locke...)

[Ellis Dee]

Saw that Julie Bowen was on Jimmy Kimmel last week so I tuned in to see if she'd drop any hints. It was a recent repeat, from late April or thereabouts. Jimmy asked her point blank if she was going back to Lost, and she said nope, not going back to Lost.

EDIT: Since I'm choosing to believe Bowen, I get to now make a guess about Jack's ex-wife. If we see her, I think it'll be Juliette's sister.

[middleman]

Saw that Julie Bowen was on Jimmy Kimmel last week so I tuned in to see if she'd drop any hints. It was a recent repeat, from late April or thereabouts. Jimmy asked her point blank if she was going back to Lost, and she said nope, not going back to Lost.

EDIT: Since I'm choosing to believe Bowen, I get to now make a guess about Jack's ex-wife. If we see her, I think it'll be Juliette's sister.

That's a nice Dark Horse guess! I doubt it will be as she would not be easily identified (I'm a diehard, and I doubt I would recall her face).

But since we are calling crazy shots, let me propose the mother of Jack's child in the ATL is the mother of Sawyer's baby in the regular timeline!

[Bob Ducca]

Not something that they'll get into on the show, I'm sure, but what do you think the media is doing back on the mainland once the Oceanic 6 all went missing again. They were pretty big media celebrities for awhile, so the fact that they all went missing again (after flying on the same plane) would raise some eyebrows back home right?

It's not something important to the story, but something kind of interesting to think about.

[Rushgeekgirl]

I just watched Julie Bowen on Youtube. She's freakin adorable isn't she?

[Rushgeekgirl]

Also I don't know why she couldn't still be Jack's wife, just because we don't see her again. Is it important to the plot to see her again?

I like the idea of it being Juliet's sister though.

[Shoeless]

Presumably Julie Bowen, just like in the original timeline. Remember that he's divorced in both timelines so it would be inconsistent if he had a different ex-wife in the two timelines.

It's worth pointing out that Julie Bowen's new show Modern Family went to shoot on location in Hawaii for the episode that airs this Wednesday, meaning if they wanted to have her appear on Lost in the next couple weeks she just happened to be in the neighborhood.

Yeah, I mentioned that in the "Modern Family" thread last week - maybe Julie Bowen had to go to Hawaii anyway to film some scenes for LOST. I was only half-serious but I think Julie Bowen as Jack's ex-wife in the ATL makes a lot more sense than Juliet.

[Arcite]

According to the spoilerslost (http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2010/04/finale-spoiler-davids-mother-revealed.html#axzz0ndTQ3lM3) blog, which has never been wrong in my experience, it will be revealed that

Juliet

is the mother of Jack's child in the ATL.

[Rushgeekgirl]

Jeff Fahey interview, which contains a spoiler about his character: http://www.movieline.com/2010/05/losts-jeff-fahey-on-the-fate-of-frank-lapidus-and-that-machete-trailer.php