What IS BBQ?

[silenus]

I asked this a few years ago and we had a lively discussion about it. Now, with the suggestion that we call a Council of Ribcea to settle things, I ask again:

Exactly what is barbeque, to you? Sauce or no sauce? Pork or beef? Goat? Tomatoes in the sauce? Vinegar? Coffee? Where is the best place to get your style of BBQ? Are all the others heretics? Do Texans know jack about it? How do you deal with the South Carolina Heresy? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Inner Stickler]

To have a barbecue is to have a bunch of people over to grill a variety of meats and drink beer and have fun. If someone has the wherewithal to smoke something that's fine and dandy but it's not required. Barbecue itself is meat that has been cooked on the grill, smoked or cooked in a crockpot device until it all falls apart and makes a messy sandwich. I don't care if you do tomato based sauces or vinegar or whatever the argument is about; it's all good and as long as everyone is fed and happy at the end of the day it was a successful barbecue.

[Munch]

I grew up in Kansas City, so know KC BBQ very well. I think there's a certain handicap to growing up in BBQ country, especially growing up in a regional BBQ area - and that's that we've known REALLY GOOD BBQ for most of our lives, and are thrown off by variations of that. And the regional variations really boil down to sauce - and that's not the foundation of what BBQ should be judged on.

For some time, when I encountered a different style, I was quick to dismiss it as "not real BBQ". I've grown to understand how very wrong I was. Dry ribs are very different than what I'm used to, but they're still incredibly good, and you have to get your tastebuds accustomed to focusing on different aspects of it.

My first trip to North Carolina was an eye-opener. 30 minutes after checking into the hotel, my brother and I got recommendations for the best, closest BBQ joint in the area. Vinegar! What the...? But once you see what's going on, you can appreciate it.

I think we can start with what BBQ isn't - things that people outside BBQ regions may not quite understand. BBQ is certainly not:

- boiled
- done inside (I don't really care how good you think your stove/broiler recipe is)
- hot dogs
- an event (a/k/a "a barbeque") - you can eat BBQ at a barbeque - but they're different things, because you can eat anything at "a barbeque"

[MTCicero]

What BBQ most certainly is not: Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky's Montgomery Inn (http://www.montgomeryinn.com/), which is essentially boiled ribs drowned in ketchup. But ask any (non-foodie) Cincinnatian who has the best barbecue, and nine times out of ten they'll say Montgomery Inn. Of course, these are also the same people who cite La Rosa's as their favorite pizza, so they're more to be pitied than scorned.

[Chronos]

Boiling ribs is just fine... if you're making soup. If you're taking the ribs out and serving them and then throwing out the liquid, that's an abomination before God. The same is true, incidentally, for most vegetables.

[samclem]

My first trip to North Carolina was an eye-opener. 30 minutes after checking into the hotel, my brother and I got recommendations for the best, closest BBQ joint in the area. Vinegar! What the...? But once you see what's going on, you can appreciate it. OK. You can stay. The rest of you--out! :D

Having lived in Virginia and North Carolina for many years, BBQ can only be pork, pit-cooked, over wood, long and slow, then pulled and served on cheap whitebread buns, with cole slaw on the sandwich. The Eastern Carolina vinegar-based sauce(no tomato) is preferred. But then you learn to appreciate the basic pulled pork, and you make allowances to accept the Western Carolina/Southern Virginia tomato/vinegar sauce. I'm sure you'd have to be a mutant to accept the (mainly) South Carolina mustard-based sauce. And, to add, you don't really put sauce on the pork while it's being cooked. Well, some do put on a mop sauce to keep it moist. And, that's OK. But you put the finishing sauce on once the meat is smoked and ready to be served.

Cooking ribs over a charcoal grill isn't BBQ. It might be what has become to be known to a majority of people in the US, but it's ain't BBQ.

Beef brisket, slowly cooked/smoked as they do in Texas and other Western states is mighty good eating when done right. I'd have to allow that as BBQ.

[hellpaso]

Being originally from Memphis, BBQ, to me, means pork. Most specifically, as a noun, slow-smoked pork shoulder shredded and served on a soft white hamburger bun topped only with a little spicy, very slightly sweet tomato-based sauce and freshly made creamy coleslaw. BBQ ribs are usually just called ribs (everybody knows they're slow-smoked pork, silly!). Ribs really didn't become that popular in Memphis until around 30 years ago. Until then, most BBQ places only served the aforemention BBQ sammich. (Of course, Charlie Vergos' Rendevouz restaurant was around serving "dry" ribs for years.) "BBQ" spaghetti has a meat sauce of pork shoulder, "BBQ" pizza is covered with pork shoulder, "BBQ" nachos have pork shoulder, etc. Having lived in Texas for many years, I just don't broach the subject. If we crave a BBQ, we either make it ourselves or order it from Memphis.

[devilsknew]

I guess around here the homey roots of traditional BBQ are rural Farmers, Churches, Firehalls, Family Reunions, towns and townships, etc. getting together for a Whole Pig Roast, an Ox Roast, or Slow Grilled (BBQ) Chicken prepared in a variety of ways... our sauces are usually vinegar bastes- but commercially and popularly it is babyback ribs grilled or smoked and a sweet tomato based KC style sauce.

[aruvqan]

A BBQ is a meeting of people to eat dead cooked animal flesh, with a few offerings to wierd vegetarians =) Occasional grilled veggies and fruits may find there way to the table, as will cold and hot salads. There will be ants, mosquitos and occasionally dogs and cats and kids underfoot.

BBQ specific is slow cooked meats, usually the cheap cuts that have the excellent connective tissues that go all gooey and tender from the slow cooking. It may or may not be rubbed with dry spices, or served with a sauce but it will be falling off the bones tender, or already pulled apart and served in a heap. It will be heavenly and somewhat messy to eat.

[The Hamster King]

Beef or pork. (Not chicken, or hamburgers, or sausage.)

Cooked in a pit or smoker. (Not grilled.)

Long and slow. (This is the key.)

The sauce is an afterthought. With really good BBQ, you don't need sauce. The meat just melts in your mouth.

My personal favorite is Mesquite-smoked Texas brisket. Favorite place to get it is Goode Company (http://www.goodecompany.com/) in Houston. If I had to pick my last meal, if would be Goode Company's sliced brisket sandwich on jalapeno cheese bread.

Back when I lived in North Carolina I tried a lot of the local pulled-pork-with-vinegar stuff and never really warmed to it. Too sour. I prefer more of a smoky flavor. In fact, my favorite BBQ place in the Triangle is Danny's (http://www.dannysbarbque.com/), which is owned by an out-of-stater who doesn't like the local BBQ.

I still haven't found a decent BBQ place in L.A. ... .

[devilsknew]

Around here, when we say "barbecue" in vernacular, we usually mean to say, or use it interchangeably, with " to grill out"... then, it is usually steaks, hamburgers, and hot dogs on the charcoal or gas grill. If we are going to smoke meats, then it would probably be clearly specified that we were going to have a "Smoke-out", "a Roast" or "Pit Barbecue", or some other adverbial or adjective descriptors.

[wolfman]

What BBQ most certainly is not: Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky's Montgomery Inn (http://www.montgomeryinn.com/), which is essentially boiled ribs drowned in ketchup. But ask any (non-foodie) Cincinnatian who has the best barbecue, and nine times out of ten they'll say Montgomery Inn.

Interesting. I drove by a place in Southfield Michigan that had sign that said they had "Montgomery inn ribs". I meant to look it up to see what the hell they were talking about, I guess now I know :)

[pulykamell]

To me, barbecue is the cooking method. The meat is unimportant. The sauce is unimportant. I'm a fan of pork, personally, but I enjoy the great barbecue traditions that involve beef and mutton, too. Chicken is also fine by me, but not what I usually think of when I think barbecue. I think of meats with a lot of collagen and connective tissue that is broken down by the low and slow cooking process.

To me, barbecue should be cooked in the general temperature range of 200-275F. It should be done over wood, usually indirectly, but not necessarily, as long as the temp is in the low range it's fine. Now, ideally, for me that's an all wood fire or lump charcoal with wood chunks or split logs. I've even made exceptions for all-charcoal barbecue (like Cozy Corner in Memphis. Even Payne's in Memphis said they're all charcoal, but I haven't been able to confirm that.) Still, I think those are the outliers. Before I had gone to Cozy Corner, I would not have made this exception.

Also, when it comes to ribs: No boiling. No foiling. No "falling off the bone" ribs.

Sauce should just be an accent in barbecue, never what defines it. Good barbecue can have sauce, certainly. (And keep your friggin Liquid Smoke out of my sauce!!! If, for whatever reason, I need to buy a commercial barbecue sauce, I will disqualify every one that has LS in it. And that's about 95% of the sauces out there.) But good barbecue should never need sauce. Oh, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with South Carolina's mustard-based sauce, although my favorite for pulled pork is Eastern North Carolina's vinegary finishing sauce. Mustard + pork is always a fantastic combination, and I don't understand the hate. I once had a barbecue with all three Carolina traditions represented in terms of sauce (a Lexington-style thin tomato-based sauce, a vinegar-based sauce, and a mustard-based sauce.) The guest's favorite was Lexington followed closely by the S.C. mustard sauce. My favorite finished a very distant third.

As for local barbecue, what defines the Chicago South and West Side barbecue traditions is the following: Spare ribs, ribs tips, and hot links (Mississippi, not Texas style--think spicy pork breakfast sausages in hog casings). Chicago barbecue is generally cooked on the hotter side of the barbecue range (in the 250-300 area), usually over pure wood in what's known as an aquarium smoker (http://chicago.grubstreet.com/sfa_barbaraanns3.jpg). The only place I've seen this outside of Chicago is at Cozy Corner in Memphis. The sauce is generally not too sweet and usually has a bit of a clove kick to it. It's also traditional to serve it in a styrofoam clamshell container with greasy steakcut fries, two slices of white bread, and the tiniest container of coleslaw. See here (http://www.gwiv.com/GNRBarbaraAnn14.jpg) for a typical pictures (coleslaw not included, but would come in the same container as the sauce.)

As for the best barbecue I've ever had, it's the pulled pork sandwich from Morris Grocery in Eads, TN. Seriously, if you are ever in the Memphis area, trek out the extra 40 minutes to Eads. It's well worth it. I still dream of that pulled pork sandwich.

[pulykamell]

Where is the best place to get your style of BBQ?

Whoops, missed this. Here, there's two places I go to for all my barbecue cravings: Uncle John's for tips & links, Lem's for spare ribs.

[RickJay]

Barbeque is friends and family together enjoying meat cooked outside. Doesn't matter how you cook it.

[Smapti]

As a native of southern CA, i'm going to have to disagree with all of you and say that carne asada is the one true barbeque.

[thirdname]

As for the best barbecue I've ever had, it's the pulled pork sandwich from Morris Grocery in Eads, TN. Seriously, if you are ever in the Memphis area, trek out the extra 40 minutes to Eads. It's well worth it. I still dream of that pulled pork sandwich.Is this it? (http://maps.google.com/maps?client=safari&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF8&q=Morris+Grocery+in+Eads,+TN&fb=1&gl=us&hq=Morris+Grocery&hnear=Eads,+TN&cid=0,0,3288656161813207094&ei=s9ftS-rEO8H88AbBjeH9Cg&ved=0CBMQnwIwAA&ll=35.1586,-89.709291&spn=0,0.019999&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=35.15864,-89.70939&panoid=27md0dbIjdvliiZJCzcyyw&cbp=12,193.92,,0,7.75)

[silenus]

As a native son of southern CA who is older than you (whippersnapper!), I counter your odd proposal and come down firmly in the camp of North Carolina.

No, wait. Texas.



OK...let's put it this way. When it comes to pork, nothing beats NC-style BBQ. Eastern or Western, doesn't matter. Pig means Tarheel cooking. The pulled pork sandwich at Lexington #1 is ambrosia. The hushpuppies at Bridges are sublime.

If we're talking beef and/or sausage, then Texas rules the roost. Lockhart is the center of the Texas BBQ world, and Smitty's is the king. Brisket, hot link, screw the sides, just let me eat.

KC and Memphis styles depend on sauces and are therefore lesser, although still legitimate forms of BBQ. The kind of meat doesn't matter, as long as it's cooked low and slow. The motto of one of my favorite joints is "If it will fit in the pit, we will barbecue it."

[Little Nemo]

I'm pretty flexible on my BBQ beliefs. Barbecue is meat cooked over a slow dry heat. Beef, pork, turkey, chicken, duck - the BBQ Gods love them all. Sauce can be good but it's not necessary. Arguing about tomato-based vs mustard-based vs vinegar-based is missing the point. It's like arguing about what kind of lingerie a beautiful woman should wear - she'll be beautiful in any kind of lingerie or none at all.

[silenus]

Mustard-based BBQ is heresy. Don't try to gussy it all up with your Gnostic clap-trap!

[DoctorJ]

Barbecue is meat cooked slowly with smoke, preferably outdoors. I'm partial to North Carolina-style pork and Western KY mutton, but I'm not picky--I wouldn't turn down a plate of Texas brisket and links or Memphis ribs. It's all good.

I'm far more hardcore about nomenclature. I'll go so far as to concede that cooking in this method is "barbecueing". But a gathering of people at which food is cooked outside is a "cookout", and the device on which food is cooked outdoors is a "grill".

[pulykamell]

Is this it? (http://maps.google.com/maps?client=safari&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF8&q=Morris+Grocery+in+Eads,+TN&fb=1&gl=us&hq=Morris+Grocery&hnear=Eads,+TN&cid=0,0,3288656161813207094&ei=s9ftS-rEO8H88AbBjeH9Cg&ved=0CBMQnwIwAA&ll=35.1586,-89.709291&spn=0,0.019999&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=35.15864,-89.70939&panoid=27md0dbIjdvliiZJCzcyyw&cbp=12,193.92,,0,7.75)

Yes, indeed.

Edit: We meant to take pictures of the pulled pork at Morris Grocery, we really did, but we were so into the orgasmic experience, that all we got was this shot of me enjoying the sandwich in the parking lot (http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1583/124/61/503153776/n503153776_1115157_4606.jpg). Seriously, this is some frickin' good barbecue.

[pulykamell]

KC and Memphis styles depend on sauces and are therefore lesser, although still legitimate forms of BBQ.

Memphis style is dependent on sauces? Really? Have you been to Memphis? There are (at least) two traditions there: dry and wet. Even with the sauced tradition, if you ask for sauce on the side, you'll realize quite quickly that those folks know what they're doing when it comes to barbecue.

[wedgehed]

No BBQ plate or sammich is complete without coleslaw & Brunswick Stew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunswick_stew) on the side.

[silenus]

I've had Memphis dry rubbed ribs. I wasn't impressed. The Rendezvous is vastly over-rated in my book.

[Spoke]

Barbecue is a cooking style. Slow-cooked in a pit, just like the Indians taught us. Pork for true believers, but I am open to other meats. (I take pity on the poor Texans who can't raise a decent hog in the scrublands.)

As for sauces, I am a universalist. I like 'em all. (Well unless they are just sickeningly sweet.) Tomato/pepper based, mustard based, vinegar based, it's all good. There's a restaurant near here that brings out a variety of sauces in a six-pack. Which one I use depends on my mood.

But what's up with the Carolina habit of serving hushpuppies with BBQ? (I love 'em but it seems a little odd.) In these parts, barbecue is served with white bread. Old-time restaurants would just leave a loaf on the table.

[silenus]

Same for Texas. You get crackers or white bread with your meat. But I'm not complaining...I love hushpuppies!

[John Mace]

I was introduced to BBQ in Oklahoma. I wasn't expecting much when taken to a BBQ place for the first time, but it was a revelation. The meat (I think I had pork the first time) was unbelievably moist and delicious. But what struck me most was the beans-- I had never liked beans in my life until I had them w/ BBQ. I went from thinking I hated beans, to loving them.

There's a Louisiana style BBQ place in Mt View, and if you can stand the shitty service, it has really, really good BBQ. They have a side which, IIRC, is called Louisiana creamed corn. This is not your grandmother's creamed corn! Unless, maybe, granny is from Louisiana...

[BrainGlutton]

I asked this a few years ago and we had a lively discussion about it. Now, with the suggestion that we call a Council of Ribcea to settle things, I ask again:

Exactly what is barbeque, to you? Sauce or no sauce? Pork or beef? Goat? Tomatoes in the sauce? Vinegar? Coffee? Where is the best place to get your style of BBQ? Are all the others heretics? Do Texans know jack about it? How do you deal with the South Carolina Heresy? Inquiring minds want to know.

The BBQ that can be described is not the true BBQ.

[Wargamer]

I've lived within 50 miles of Lexington, NC my entire life (OK, maybe 75 when I was at UNC).

BBQ is Lexington Pit Cooked pork shoulder. Tomato-vinegar sauce.

Anything else, as delicious as it is, just isn't BBQ.

(And I do like a moist brisket- but if it ain't a pig, it ain't BBQ).

Stamey's and Country BBQ in Greensboro are currently the vendors of choice for artery-clogging goodness. I can abide Eastern style BBQ. That's the same as the oddball cousin who just never seems to fit in at the family reunions, but that you like anyway, in spite of yourself.

But the mustard-based stuff they use just south of Charlotte? If it wasn't outlawed by the Geneva Convention after WW1, it should have been.

[devilsknew]

I guess around here the homey roots of traditional BBQ are rural Farmers, Churches, Firehalls, Family Reunions, towns and townships, etc. getting together for a Whole Pig Roast, an Ox Roast, or Slow Grilled (BBQ) Chicken prepared in a variety of ways... our sauces are usually vinegar bastes

Considering this, I guess the common thread is that they are all whole, and on bone animals slowly and lovingly prepared with some effort and coals. Those Firemen can make some mean BBQ Chicken. Our Ox roast has really devolved into Pot Roast territory.

[pulykamell]

I've had Memphis dry rubbed ribs. I wasn't impressed. The Rendezvous is vastly over-rated in my book.

You're not going to get any argument from me on that one, although I thought Rendezvous was better than the naysayers would have me believe. Most BBQ aficionados I know say that place is complete crap. I think it's deserving of some respect, although it's not quite what I would call BBQ.

[lokij]

I'm going to go right to the essential elements of barbecue...

It must be made from whole or primal cut meat. If it is too processed it cannot be barbecue.

Wood smoke. The source may be from wood fire or charcoal but it must be present as a result of the cooking process and not from a flavoring agent.

Long slow cooking time, if it is quickly seared and served rare it is not barbecue.

All true barbecue require these three things the variation is a matter of seasonings and condiments. The meat and the smoke are the thing, the rubs and sauces at their best simply showcase that sublime union of flesh and flame and at their worst attempt to make something of poor quality somewhat edible.

Sauces and rubs never make barbecue.

My personal preference is for whole hog barbecue over wood coals, preferably hickory and oak.

[USCDiver]

Stamey's and Country BBQ in Greensboro are currently the vendors of choice for artery-clogging goodness. I can abide Eastern style BBQ. That's the same as the oddball cousin who just never seems to fit in at the family reunions, but that you like anyway, in spite of yourself.


Well shit, apparently, I drive by a Stamey's on my way to work everyday and never noticed it. I'll have to stop by there this weekend and get a sammich.

I grew up in south Georgia and spent some time in both South Carolina and Eastern NC. I have to say I like a slow cooked boston butt over low slow heat (I like Alton's recipe for a brine and rub). Anything else just isn't BBQ for me, although I will allow for Texas beef on occasion. Personal preference for me is just enough Eastern NC vinegar sauce to taste, it isn't meant to be a sauce so much as a flavoring. I don't put a lot of it on there, I want to taste the meat! I haven't had enough Western NC BBQ yet to make a decision on it. I spent 8 years in SC and never developed a taste for the Carolina Gold, but that may be because the only convenient place I ever went to get it was Maurice's which sucked.

[devilsknew]

I simply believe that the Vinegar sauce in NC is a baste for the barbecue to caramelize and flavor the crust of a barbecue... not a condiment. The guy was probably basting his pork with the sauce, and put some out as extra on request.

[Autolycus]

I don't give a hoot any which way, but this song needs to be cited as an authoritative source:

The BBQ Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ubTQfr_tyY

[Rushgeekgirl]

BBQ is what I get from Tops (in Memphis, but I guess it's a chain). It's chopped meat with a good sauce sprinkled on, with a spoonful of slaw, on a nice warm bun. Beans and salty Lays on the side. Sometimes french fries.

Whatever else I get is "stuff cooked on the grill". I've never been to any fancy restaurants and don't know the difference between dry and rubbed. Maybe I should head out to the Memphis in May Barbecue Fest today and learn, but really it's not that big a deal. It's just meat. I like it most ways it's cooked.

[USCDiver]

I simply believe that the Vinegar sauce in NC is a baste for the barbecue to caramelize and flavor the crust of a barbecue... not a condiment. The guy was probably basting his pork with the sauce, and put some out as extra on request.

Nope, it is meant to be used as a topping/condiment/sauce whatever. It is definitely added to the meat after it has been smoked and pulled and usually there are bottles on the tables in restaurants so you can add as much as you like.

[Darth Nader]

My grandfather-in-law over in Rio Bravo was famous for his barbacoa. It's hard to find the real cow's-head-cooked-in-a-hole-in-the-ground anymore, and that's too bad.

BBQ is just meat cooked outside. Bad BBQ has sauce on it.

[Spoke]

Sauces and rubs never make barbecue.

This bears repeating. If it is properly prepared barbecue, the sauce is almost irrelevant. The real treat is the sweet, smoky, tender meat, and it would be delicious with no sauce at all. If the barbecue you are getting isn't like that, if it requires sauce to be edible, it is second-or-third-rate barbecue.

[hellpaso]

BBQ is what I get from Tops (in Memphis, but I guess it's a chain). It's chopped meat with a good sauce sprinkled on, with a spoonful of slaw, on a nice warm bun. Beans and salty Lays on the side. Sometimes french fries.

Whatever else I get is "stuff cooked on the grill". I've never been to any fancy restaurants and don't know the difference between dry and rubbed. Maybe I should head out to the Memphis in May Barbecue Fest today and learn, but really it's not that big a deal. It's just meat. I like it most ways it's cooked. oh yeah! Top's is a chain, but used to be only a local Memphis restaurant. I was on one of the BBQ cooking teams years ago, and it's not the same since all the corporate sponsers took over. Just head over to Top's or Corky's. (haven't been back to Mempho in 14 years--only thing I miss is the BBQ!):(

[Munch]

Cooking ribs over a charcoal grill isn't BBQ. It might be what has become to be known to a majority of people in the US, but it's ain't BBQ. I had no idea that grilling ribs over a grill was done, let alone widespread. Who does that?

Beef or pork. (Not chicken, or hamburgers, or sausage.)Hamburgers I understand. But why not chicken or sausage? Lack of connective tissue? BBQ chicken is rare - it's hard to do because it's so small. But what about turkey?

(And I do like a moist brisket- but if it ain't a pig, it ain't BBQ).
This I don't really understand. Is this just a personal preference, or does brisket (or other beef) violate some rule other than "it has to be pork"?

[samclem]

I simply believe that the Vinegar sauce in NC is a baste for the barbecue to caramelize and flavor the crust of a barbecue... not a condiment. The guy was probably basting his pork with the sauce, and put some out as extra on request.

Nope, it is meant to be used as a topping/condiment/sauce whatever. It is definitely added to the meat after it has been smoked and pulled and usually there are bottles on the tables in restaurants so you can add as much as you like.
How about you're both correct. :)

Many, if not most NC makers of old tyme BBQ use a mop sauce while they're cooking. It's vinegar based. You don't use tomato in it because it will burn. It just helps to keep the BBQ moist. In my experience, most people in Eastern NC today use a bit extra of the pepper/vinegar sauce as a condiment on their BBQ sandwiches. Not everyone.

[pope_hentai]

if there's no smoke it aint BBQ, its pulled pork. needless to say theres a few "bbq" joints i refuse to eat at here in TN. heck.... back at a gas station i used to work at we had a mean pressure smoker that left a smoke ring damn near all the way through the meat, and the smokey drippings made a helluva seasoning for some cheesesteak sammitches.

[devilsknew]

Nope, it is meant to be used as a topping/condiment/sauce whatever. It is definitely added to the meat after it has been smoked and pulled and usually there are bottles on the tables in restaurants so you can add as much as you like.

Oh yes, I am not disputing that is what has become of the NC Vinegar sauce... but my contention is that it's the grandaddy of "Barbecue Sauces" and was only ever conceived as a baste or mop to the barbecue, that this baste evolved into a sauce as condiment is something relatively new, considering the few hundred years of European Barbecue Tradition in America. I think it might be a corruption of the original purpose and overused in its modern form. Baste, not Sauce.

Actually, I also believe that NC Barbecue might be the most Orthodox and true to the original American Barbecue tradition of Early America.

[Spoke]

Actually, I also believe that NC Barbecue might be the most Orthodox and true to the original American Barbecue tradition of Early America.

That's quite likely true, although it doesn't mean North Carolina BBQ is therefore the best. :)

[samclem]

That's quite likely true, although it doesn't mean North Carolina BBQ is therefore the best. :)
Heritic! Witch! Burn him!

You can float, can't you? :D

[silenus]

Maybe we can build a bridge out of him?

[devilsknew]

But actually, I think Sweatman's South Carolina BBQ (http://porkandwhiskey.wordpress.com/2006/09/02/sweatmans-bbq-holly-hill-sc/) as seen on Tony's No Reservations is really the torchbearer of the real and authentic American BBQ in it's pure form that North Carolina has seemed to lost in its commercialization of the pulled pork sandwich and its reliance on Shoulder... I still say BBQ should be a whole piggy and a party. The pulled pork primal sandwich seems more like tourist BBQ, rather than the real thing.

[missred]

::cue Randy Travis music::

Hallelujah!

Brothers and sisters, we'd like to welcome you to the First Church of the Holy Barbeque. Let me hear you shout Amen! You've come to the right place.

Now, I know that some of you have worshipped at the altars of the false gods of beef and mutton...folks, so have I. But I'm here today to tell you of the saving grace of pork.

::cue B.B. King music::

Somewhere, right this very minute, a pig is laying down his life so that you might find yourself eating in the joy of the Lard. Brothers and sisters, those shoulders, hams and ribs can lead you to your heavenly reward.

Now, some churches will dress it up with sauces made with tomatoes, molasses or mustard, and folks, that's not necessarily bad, but if it's been baptized low and slow over smoking wood, a little vinegar is all it takes.

In the name of Old Major, Porky and Petunia, pass the cracklin' cornbread and go in peace!

::cue Lynyrd Skynyrd music::

[devilsknew]

I'm just an agnostic ascetic.

[samclem]

I'm just an agnostic ascetic. You do know that vinegar is just acetic acid? :D

[Ian D. Bergkamp]

I've had Memphis dry rubbed ribs. I wasn't impressed. The Rendezvous is vastly over-rated in my book.

I grew up in Memphis and agree. I think most Memphians would, in fact. The dry ribs started as a gimmick and have become very popular, but few bbq connoisseurs rate them highly. That said, I do like to have them on occasion, just as a change of pace.

The best bbq in Memphis used to be Interstate BBQ (http://www.interstatebarbecue.com/). I haven't been back in a while, so I don't know if that's still true.

[pulykamell]

I had no idea that grilling ribs over a grill was done, let alone widespread. Who does that?

I actually wouldn't knock it until you've tried it. Sometimes, when I'm in a hurry, I'll do loin back ribs over a two-stage fire in a kettle grill. I'll put the ribs on the side without coals (so I'm cooking indirect), and on the coal side I'll also throw in some wood chunks or some applewood trimmings I have lying around the garage. This method works best for baby backs, which are leaner than spares and more suitable for a quick cooking method, but I've seen spares done this way, too.

Rendezvous in Memphis does something similar, in which they do the ribs directly over the fire, but have the grate a few feet from the heat so the grate temp is in the low 300s, somewhere between barbecue and grilling. That's why I say upthread that it's not quite barbecue. As I'm Not Dennis says, they're nice as a change of pace, but not at all where you want to start in Memphis if you want to explore traditional barbecue. Memphis truly is a fantastic place for barbecue. Another place I just thought of there that has a great barbecue sandwich is Germantown Commissary. But Cozy Corner, Paynes, and Morris Grocery are the places I dream of returning to especially.

[pulykamell]

This I don't really understand. Is this just a personal preference, or does brisket (or other beef) violate some rule other than "it has to be pork"?

There are large parts of the US where "barbecue" literally means "chopped or pulled pork" (cooked a certain way, of course) in the local vernacular. So you'll find menus that say "chopped barbecue sandwich" or sell "barbecue by the pound," but that refers to pork only. You'll have menu items like "chopped barbecue" and "ribs" and "chicken" separated out, even though they might all be cooked using the barbecue method. (Or, more commonly, I've seen the menu items as "chopped BBQ," and "BBQ ribs," and "BBQ chicken," so, to be precise, when barbecue is being used as a noun describing a foodstuff (as opposed to a cookout or a grill or whatnot), it refers to slow-cooked and smoked primal cuts of pork.

I'm curious--is the term "barbecue" used in this way in Texas? I don't remember seeing it used like this, but I've spent little time down there. That is, will somebody use the word "barbecue" rather than "brisket"? So, you might say a plate of sliced barbecue or a barbecue sandwich instead of a plate of sliced brisket or a brisket sandwich?

[silenus]

I really need to open my own BBQ joint. All we have around here is a chain (Famous Dave's) and a couple of places that think that slathering commercial sauce on roast beef is BBQ. I have to drive into LA or Venice Beach to get a fix.

puly - Every Texan I know refers to the meat rather than the method. The method is understood unless specified.

[Little Nemo]

Every Texan I know refers to the meat rather than the method. The method is understood unless specified.Maybe that depends on what part of Texas you're in. I'm familiar with Houston and barbecue generally refers to a method of cooking not a product. Beef is the most commonly barbecued meat but pork and other meats are well known. So if you asked for some barbecue, you be asked "some barbecue what?"

[devilsknew]

Or Hey, what about Fish?

Can smoked fish be considered BBQ?

I had some great smoked Mullet on the roadside in Florida. Just a couple of guys selling whole fresh smoked Mullet filets from their smoker trailer hooked up to their pickup.

Had some great Pork BBQ from a guy who would pull up the same way on Sundays. Ribs, Sandwiches, and tips- his BBQ was inconsistent however. Some days were better than others depending on who was cooking, he had a young girl fill in for him on some days and it just wasn't as good... once got an undercooked/undersmoked chicken leg and thigh on her watch... that was definitely not good. His potato salad was just commercial stuff but he made a great "Crazy Beans"-- a bunch of different kinds of beans and sausage and bacon done in a crockpot.... A bit pricey, but seems like he always sold out.

I'm sure all of these weren't quite above board but it sure was tasty... what do you think about bootleg BBQ? Does its illicit and homebrew nature make it even more tasty?

[devilsknew]

Look, I don't want to impugn anyone. Because that young lady in the Tool shirt could have told me to come back in 30-45 minutes for that Chicken quarter, I would have come back or hung out there for a mess of mama's BBQ, they were out of pork ribs... didn't feel like a BBQ sandwich... I was actually making small talk about Tool, just shootin' the shit - Great Band. Instead she was lookin' to make the sale. Those guys that were smokin' the mullet were dressed in camo, lookin' to make some gas money for their boat... they just wanted to go fishin' again. They were both parked on private property with, I assume, the owner's consent.

[devilsknew]

Every perishable thing was iced in a cooler and the meat was kept at temp.

[devilsknew]

They were both fairly hot smoke methods.

[BigT]

Barbecue sauce is (sadly) what you get at McDonald's or the store, here in northern Arkansas. Barbecue is slow cooked meat, usually cooked outside. If someone invites you to a barbecue, that just means a party where the food is cooked outside. Chances are you won't be eating barbecue, unless you know someone with a slow cooker who has had it going for a while before you get there. And, even then, it's usually called brisket (or whatever cut is being used.)

BTW, does anyone else always want to spell it "barbeque"?

[Acsenray]

Barbecue to me is a method of cooking. It is not a synonym for cook-out or a kind of get-together of people.

[Oslo Ostragoth]

They were both fairly hot smoke methods.

Or Hey, what about Fish?

Can smoked fish be considered BBQ?

I had some great smoked Mullet on the roadside in Florida. Just a couple of guys selling whole fresh smoked Mullet filets from their smoker trailer hooked up to their pickup.

Had some great Pork BBQ from a guy who would pull up the same way on Sundays. Ribs, Sandwiches, and tips- his BBQ was inconsistent however. Some days were better than others depending on who was cooking, he had a young girl fill in for him on some days and it just wasn't as good... once got an undercooked/undersmoked chicken leg and thigh on her watch... that was definitely not good. His potato salad was just commercial stuff but he made a great "Crazy Beans"-- a bunch of different kinds of beans and sausage and bacon done in a crockpot.... A bit pricey, but seems like he always sold out.

I'm sure all of these weren't quite above board but it sure was tasty... what do you think about bootleg BBQ? Does its illicit and homebrew nature make it even more tasty?

Look, I don't want to impugn anyone. Because that young lady in the Tool shirt could have told me to come back in 30-45 minutes for that Chicken quarter, I would have come back or hung out there for a mess of mama's BBQ, they were out of pork ribs... didn't feel like a BBQ sandwich... I was actually making small talk about Tool, just shootin' the shit - Great Band. Instead she was lookin' to make the sale. Those guys that were smokin' the mullet were dressed in camo, lookin' to make some gas money for their boat... they just wanted to go fishin' again. They were both parked on private property with, I assume, the owner's consent.

Every perishable thing was iced in a cooler and the meat was kept at temp.

Dude. PWD? np

[devilsknew]

Dude. PWD? np

Dude, I'm not parsing what you are trying to say?

PWD np?

[Perciful]

BBQ is not popular up here. We had one Smokehouse Restaurant but it went out of business. I don't like sticky food. Have you ever tried to eat ribs neatly? If they could invent some tongs or something so I could get it to my mouth without getting sticky fingers?

I did work with some Kentucky boys that made some mean chicken wings. It took a long time with hot coals and a foil tent over it. He used some kind of special hot barbecue sauce from down south. They were crispy on the outside and tender on the inside and just the right amount of hot.

[devilsknew]

BBQ is not popular up here. We had one Smokehouse Restaurant but it went out of business. I don't like sticky food. Have you ever tried to eat ribs neatly? If they could invent some tongs or something so I could get it to my mouth without getting sticky fingers?

I did work with some Kentucky boys that made some mean chicken wings. It took a long time with hot coals and a foil tent over it. He used some kind of special hot barbecue sauce from down south. They were crispy on the outside and tender on the inside and just the right amount of hot.

Ok, first you say you don't like sticky fingers, then you say how good some tucky chicken wings are? If your lips ain't glistenin' then you ain't listenin'. Some Pitmasters would be offended and feel as if they didn't make a good BBQ if you didn't get a sheen on your lips like some wet lip gloss, or sticky collagen fingers. Nigh on a compliment if people are up to their elbows in sweet anointings of pork fat or sauce. You, my friend are missing the whole point of BBQ.

Also, kind of a rule of BBQ, you should never wear white if you are eating BBQ. If you come away from a plate of BBQ without a stain on your shirt, then you aren't trying hard enough!

[Oslo Ostragoth]

Dude, I'm not parsing what you are trying to say?

PWD np?

Posting While Drunk? no problem

Actually, I should apologize for not following your post.

[dogbutler]

Eastern N.C. Barbecue is the One True Faith. The rest of you heathens can be burned at the stake slow cooked over hardwood and served with vinegar based sauce.:D

[devilsknew]

Posting While Drunk? no problem

Actually, I should apologize for not following your post.

Oh, not familiar with those acronymns... just afterthoughts, mostly, that I thought of after my five minute edit window was through.

[devilsknew]

Mostly, I didn't want to ruin a good thing... Never know when some food safety crusader from the local Health Department is going to try to clamp down on this kind of homegrown BBQ. I wanted to reassure that although it was bootleg BBQ that it was entirely safe and really good food otherwise if not entirely legal. America is sorely lacking in the vibrant street food scene that seems to thrive with fewer restrictions in other countries and tends to make us corporate drones in food variety. Food Safety is important, but making too much hay and redtape is unnecessarily restrictive to small businessmen and really has no legtimate basis in food safety other than as an absolutist and militant stance. It also makes it really hard for the little guy to compete against the corporate entrenchment of fast food which has supplanted variety and choice in American cuisine.

[silenus]

The best BBQ is produced by an old black man who runs a little shack by the side of the road and is open three days a week. There are no tables, and everything is served on butcher paper.

[devilsknew]

Mostly, I didn't want to ruin a good thing... It also makes it really hard for the little guy to compete against the corporate entrenchment of fast food which has supplanted variety and choice in American cuisine.

And in the case of American BBQ, corporate entrenchment and modern "state of the art" techniques and modern food preperation have supplanted the true American Tradition. I see these electric smokers and fancy porcelain eggs and what not, why bother? If you want the art and intuition of BBQ these things just oblierate and obscure the real time honored methods of yore.

[missred]

The best BBQ is produced by an old black man who runs a little shack by the side of the road and is open three days a week. There are no tables, and everything is served on butcher paper.

To quote Roy Blount: "Never eat barbecue in a place where the chairs all match."

Pretty much sums it up. :p

[Perciful]

Ok, first you say you don't like sticky fingers, then you say how good some tucky chicken wings are? If your lips ain't glistenin' then you ain't listenin'. Some Pitmasters would be offended and feel as if they didn't make a good BBQ if you didn't get a sheen on your lips like some wet lip gloss, or sticky collagen fingers. Nigh on a compliment if people are up to their elbows in sweet anointings of pork fat or sauce. You, my friend are missing the whole point of BBQ.

Also, kind of a rule of BBQ, you should never wear white if you are eating BBQ. If you come away from a plate of BBQ without a stain on your shirt, then you aren't trying hard enough!

That is my problem I am not eating good barbecue up here and not ready to get sticky. I need to prepare better and get down and dirty with my BBQ. There is nothing messier then eating lobster and I put a bib on for that. Stay away from white and get messy!

Actually the Kentucky boys sauce was kind of thin and hot. It was not really sticky like some BBQ sauces are. It was orangish and it was the best!