>>WSOP<< 2010 World Series of Poker

[Covered_In_Bees!]

Starts on Friday (http://www.wsop.com/tourney/tourneydetails.asp?groupID=764) with the casual casino employee tournament then jumps head first into some hardcore action with the first tournament of its kind in the WS: $50,000 Poker Player's Championship.

PPC consists of eight poker variations: LHE, Omaha Hi-Lo Split-8 or Better, Seven Card Razz (Isn't Razz always seven cards?), Seven Card Stud, Seven Card Stud Hi-Lo Split-8 or Better, NLHE, PLO, 2-7 Triple Draw Lowball.

What is 2-7 Triple Draw Lowball? I honestly have zero idea what separates it from the rest. Not a clue.

I'm also interested in how Phil Ivey does (I'm alone in this I'm sure, as Ivey is kind of an unknown). With his final table I'm sure it's resparked some of his love for the game, if not just the main event. Nevermind the hundreds of thousands of dollars he is likely to be betting on himself all throughout the series like last year, which helped give him focus to win two bracelets.

I expect no less of him than two match his original record of three in a year. Put Mr. Lisandro back in his place. ;)

[notfrommensa]

Read all about Deuce to seven triple draw here (http://poker.about.com/od/pokervariations/qt/deucetoseven.htm)


I have played online for free a couple of times. Wasn't much fun.

CIB, you should join the SDMB poker game on Thursday nights.

[Covered_In_Bees!]

Read all about Deuce to seven triple draw here (http://poker.about.com/od/pokervariations/qt/deucetoseven.htm)


I have played online for free a couple of times. Wasn't much fun.

Sounds interesting. Especially that flushes and straights count against you and that aces are always high.

CIB, you should join the SDMB poker game on Thursday nights.

To save time I could just wire you all two bucks a week. :p

[notfrommensa]

ITS FREE!! Free! and highly competitive!

All you are risking is your pride. And the best part is beating PeekerCPA. I didn't think I would like, now it is one of the highlights of the week. And I have only played for three weeks (of course I am in first place).

Check out the thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=558168).

[Robot Arm]

All you are risking is your pride. And the best part is beating PeekerCPA. I didn't think I would like, now it is one of the highlights of the week. And I have only played for three weeks (of course I am in first place).

Check out the thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=558168).Why didn't you think you'd like it?

[notfrommensa]

Why didn't you think you'd like it?

because the free games that have played on-line are "All-in" Fests. Or it would have been really slow-paced. And it turned out to be neither.

[peekercpa]

because the free games that have played on-line are "All-in" Fests. Or it would have been really slow-paced. And it turned out to be neither.

plus he/she gets to rub my nose in it every week (so far :p)

but that's otay, revenge is a dish best served cold. 'course being that we are supposed to hit the mid 90s before the end of the week i'd better take room temperature.

seriously, bees join us. it is really a hoot. and if you hate it all you lost was like an hour and a half of your life. or you could just bot out after a hand or two.

and i don't want to be presumptious but it seems like the most recent joinees are enjoying themselves. now it would be nice if they weren't as successful but, meh.

[Covered_In_Bees!]

Doyle Bruson still has some fight left in him, being third in chips at the end of Day 1 for the 50K Player's Championship.

[Oslo Ostragoth]

Does anyone know of a twitter account for daily updates?

[Covered_In_Bees!]

Does anyone know of a twitter account for daily updates?

Daily updates? You'd get updates probably every thirty minutes since they have like four tournaments going on at any given time.

I think Jeffrey Pollack (not sure on spelling), some kind of suit with Harrah's has a twitter account, but I seriously doube he's giving chip counts and such.

Pokernews.com as the twitter feed from a bunch of a pros if you wanna know what they're up to.

What kind of updates were you looking for?

[notfrommensa]

Final Table and Chip Counts (http://www.pokernews.com/live-reporting/2010-wsop/event-2/) at the Champions Tournament includes John Juanda, the Mizarachi brothers, and Daniel Alaei.

IMO, not the A-list of players that ESPN wants, but at least some names that I recognize, plus a couple of names that I do not recognize.

[Covered_In_Bees!]

Go Juanda!

[notfrommensa]

good news for Juanda fans. He made the final 4. But he is last place in chip counts as of ~10 pm Vegas Time. he has got about 30X the Big Blind, so there is room to maneuver.

1 David Oppenheim 8,388,607
2 Vladimir Schmelev 4,385,000
3 Michael Mizrachi 2,150,000
4 John Juanda 1,825,000

Antes/Blinds 15K/K30K/60K

[Covered_In_Bees!]

Juanda is out in 4th. :(

[notfrommensa]

Juanda is out in 4th. :(

Yep, it looks like he was panicking.

He busted on hand 96 when he went all in with K-9 Suited. The Russian had pocket 10's

And apparently on hand 95 he went all-in on the button and was not called.

[notfrommensa]

Michael Mizrachi wins the 50K Players Championship and $1.56 Million.

On hand 235, he went "All-in" with Q5 Off :o and the Schmelev called with Q8Off :o:o:o.

Mizrachi got a 5 on the turn.

It finished about 4 am Vegas time. they played 80 hands heads-up and 50 hands with a 3-some. I wonder if they were getting tired?

14 hours to play 235 hands. Minus about 2 hrs? for breaks, that comes out to 3 minutes per hand. Considering, many (if not most) are won before the flop, that seems to be a long time per hand. 80 hands, in 3 hours of heads up action.

I think if I ever got to a final table at a WSoP event (especially a televised one), that pace of play would be the biggest hurdle for me.

[SenorBeef]

Well that was convenient timing for Mizrachi, who apparently was broke, owed hundreds of thousands in taxes, and had his condo foreclosed and sold.

But given that he played a 50k event despite that, I doubt he owns too much of his own action.

[SenorBeef]

What's interesting to me is that over the last few years there's been so much action amongst the great poker players at nosebleed stakes that the buyins and amounts you can win at WSOP events are trivial. These people regularly fight over $400,000 pots, so the idea of entering a dinky $5000 tourney and maybe winning $100,000 is a waste of time - you'd be better off playing in Bobby's room during the series.

But they also want to promote a brand. For whatever reason, people love poker celebrities - which basically translates to people who enter a lot of tournaments. You want to get some sort of sponsored status with a poker site, or if you already have one, you have an obligation to promote them.

So players like Tom Dwan, Phil Ivey, etc. need to put up crazy side action to make the series worth the time. They put tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars on long shots like 1000-1 odds to win the WSOP main event, or millions of dollars on lesser longshots like bracelet bets. If Ivey had won the main event last year, the 8.5 million he would've won from the tournament would've been a tiny fraction of his total take.

[MissTake]

What's interesting to me is that over the last few years there's been so much action amongst the great poker players at nosebleed stakes that the buyins and amounts you can win at WSOP events are trivial. These people regularly fight over $400,000 pots, so the idea of entering a dinky $5000 tourney and maybe winning $100,000 is a waste of time - you'd be better off playing in Bobby's room during the series.

But they also want to promote a brand. For whatever reason, people love poker celebrities - which basically translates to people who enter a lot of tournaments. You want to get some sort of sponsored status with a poker site, or if you already have one, you have an obligation to promote them.

So players like Tom Dwan, Phil Ivey, etc. need to put up crazy side action to make the series worth the time. They put tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars on long shots like 1000-1 odds to win the WSOP main event, or millions of dollars on lesser longshots like bracelet bets. If Ivey had won the main event last year, the 8.5 million he would've won from the tournament would've been a tiny fraction of his total take.

IIRC, Ivey has said something to the effect that he gets his high (and the majority of his income) off prop bets. Poker is now something to do in order to work the props.

With some of the new bloods, the Dwans, if you will, table play is so slow after the accelerated play online, that they have to do something to keep themselves stimulated. Watching some of them is like watching a room full of ADHD kids on crack.

[notfrommensa]

Notable WSoP Updates

Men (the Master) Nguyen wins his 7th bracelet in the 7-Card Stud WSoP event. Vladimir Schmelev made another final table.

Tom (durrr) Dwan is the chip leader at a $1500 no limit Hold'm event after Day 2. And he became the chip leader while playing in the deuce-to-seven low ball bracelet event simultaneously.

Apparently, durrr has $2 Million in side bets that he wins a bracelet this year.

[Covered_In_Bees!]

Men the Master had six bracelets? Jesus. I knew he had a few, but six? And now seven? Allen Cunningham and Daniel Negreanu have some catching up to do with their buddies huh? What do they have, like five bracelets each? Psh, they're small time now.

[notfrommensa]

Durrr is the final seven of Event 11, 1500 No Limit Hold'm. He is in 2nd place but trivially behind the chip leader. In fact the top 4 all have between ~2.1 and 2.6 million chips.

[SenorBeef]

Apparently, durrr has $2 Million in side bets that he wins a bracelet this year.

He has 2 million in bets, or he stands to win 2 million?

[notfrommensa]

He has 2 million in bets, or he stands to win 2 million?

Durrr came in 2nd in the 1500 NL Hold'em Event #11, losing to some guy (http://www.pokernews.com/live-reporting/2010-wsop/event-11/post.145928.htm) named Simon Watt. He looks like he is about 16 yrs old.

Durrr's side bets, not exactly sure what they are but here is a quote from the linked article:

Some of the most notable players in the world were sweating their faces off tonight, as Dwan stood to take a big chunk of money out of the poker pool should he have closed the deal. The numbers are varying and mind-boggling, making it hard to get a real feel for what Dwan had on the line tonight. Either way, as disappointed as Dwan is, there are a dozen or so high-stakes monsters that are going to sleep particularly well this evening after fading that huge bad beat.

Mike Matusow goes on to say:

Thank you for saving us all millions of dollars! How does it feel to be every high-stakes gamblers hero? They're gonna, like, put you on the wall in Bobby's Room or some shit.

I would guess that Durrr has something like $2 Million on the line, with some odds. I really do not know what the odds would be prop bet on a bracelet. 8/1? 10/1? Those odds seem kind of short to me.

[SenorBeef]

I'm actually not sure what sort of odds you'd get on a bracelet if you were playing every event. I'm pretty sure Ivey booked significant action on himself at 1000-1 or 2000-1 to win the ME last year, but that was one event. Durr could cram 25 events in to try to win a bracelet, some with a field of only a few hundred. I think it would have to be better than 10-1 for Durr to think he has the best of it (he's easily one of the best two or three players there, but the way tournaments work that by no means guarantees a win).

That's why I asked if Durr had a potential 2 million coming in or if he put up 2 million. If he has 2 million in action at, as your guess, 10-1, that means he stands to win 20 million for a bracelet. If that's the case, then Durr lost $20 million as a 4:1 favorite (he trapped a guy with KK vs TT and lost, I think), which might just stack up to be the worst beat every in terms of cost.

I suspect it's the other way, though - that Durr has 200k booked on himself at 10-1 and hence stands to win $2m. Putting up $2m of his own on a relatively long shot prop bet seems like too much, especially after his rocky year. I'll see if I can find out.

[SenorBeef]

. If that's the case, then Durr lost $20 million as a 4:1 favorite (he trapped a guy with KK vs TT and lost, I think), which might just stack up to be the worst beat every in terms of cost.


Ignore that part. Apparently that was related to him busting in another tournament, not this one.

Seeing mentions that Durr stands to win something like 8-9m if he gets a bracelet, but unconfirmed.

[notfrommensa]

I have a feeling that Durrr has wagered a significant amount on himself to win a bracelet:

Some Tweets from the Poker World:

Daniel Negreanu:

Congrats to Tom Dwan! We were all rooting for you... To come second! Wow I escaped. What a sweat that was.

...

just finished chatting with Durr. That kid is amazing. Rather than jump off a bridge he is smiling and gearing up for the next one. Cool cat

Annie Duke:

I'm enjoying sweating the Durrr match mainly because I have no money on it:) Big swing for a bunch of my friends and relatives though.

...

Durrrr is heads up fir the bracelet at about a 2.5 to 1 chip deficit. Lots of folks have big bets against him winning the bracelet.

...

Players in the Stud 8 or better championship breathe a sigh of relief as Tom Dwan finishes second. Never a bigger swing in a $1500 than 2day

[notfrommensa]

Related Story: The Unabomber (http://news.bluffmagazine.com/phil-laaks-record-poker-run-ends-at-115-consecutive-hours-12181/), Phil Laak, stays up 115 consecutive hours playing poker

[Oslo Ostragoth]

This (http://twitter.com/RealKidPoker) is a fun read. (Daniel Negreanu's tweets.)

[notfrommensa]

The WSoP Ladies Champion is Vanessa Hellebuyck. Never heard of her, or anyone at the final table.

Actually, Evelyn Ng (#27) is the only player I had heard that finished in the top 30.

And if you been reading Annie Duke tweets, you would know that there is quite a hornets nest about a "Women's" Only WSoP event.

Here is a link to her blog (http://www.annieduke.com/2010/06/the-ladies-event-redux/).




Technically it was not a womens open event because one guy (Shaun Deeb) did play in the event, initially dressed in drag. But it was a known fact that he was a dude.

[SenorBeef]

Ladies events, people talking about the "best woman player" like that means anything, etc. are all bullshit. This isn't boxing or football or something where women have obvious physical disadvantages, so why should we be impressed when some woman manages to play half-decent poker occasionally?

[Covered_In_Bees!]

There were at least twelve males playing in the Ladies Event, according to what I read from PokerNews.

[SenorBeef]

I looked to see how high any of the men finished in the event (http://www.pokernews.com/live-reporting/2010-wsop/event-22/payouts.htm), but I'm thwarted by a lineup of ambiguous names. "Timmi"? Maybe? Sidsel... Weirdest bunch of names...

From a post on 2+2


Table 61 just decoided to go to the bathroom together. The dealer stopped dealing and continued when they all got back. When table 61 was back, table 67 decided to go together. Lol, ladies events.


I should've played the event, probably the softest field at the series I'd imagine. You don't have to dress up in drag as far as I know - it's not like they were fooling anyone - you probably can't legally discriminate against men.

[Mahaloth]

Ladies events, people talking about the "best woman player" like that means anything, etc. are all bullshit. This isn't boxing or football or something where women have obvious physical disadvantages, so why should we be impressed when some woman manages to play half-decent poker occasionally?

Yeah, I never understood why there was a ladies events. Now, a children's event, I might be interested in. :)

Uh, I mean that kids are dumber than adults and would need there event. Women aren't dumber/weaker than men in poker and don't need their own event. Just want to clarify that.

There were at least twelve males playing in the Ladies Event, according to what I read from PokerNews.

God bless those brave warriors of equality!

[SenorBeef]

Sammy Farha on the O8 $10k FT.


Sammy Farha made the comment that he's been up all night to which James Dempsey asked, "Winning?"

Farha responded, "If I win this, I'll break even from last night. Seriously."


Oh Sammy.

[notfrommensa]

Sam Farha wins his 3rd bracelet in the 10K Omaha Hi/Lo event. All three bracelets are in Omaha.

IIRC, Farha has not been on the last couple of seasons of High Stakes Poker, and I haven't seen him on Poker After Dark.

[SenorBeef]

Woops, guess he won yesterday. I didn't check the post time of where I read it.

He wasn't broke (as far as I know), but rather he said the info he was giving away on TV on those games was hurting too much in his everyday games.

[KellyCriterion]

Well, Ivey's done it again (http://www.pokernews.com/live-reporting/2010-wsop/event-37/post.152830.htm).

[SenorBeef]

In fact after it was all over, Ivey was overheard to comment, "So how much is it for first place anyway?"


Baller.

Wonder how much he had on general non-ME bracelet bets.

[Covered_In_Bees!]

Did someone mention Phil Ivey?

*swoon*

[notfrommensa]

***Bump***

The Main event starts in just a couple of days. I wonder if they got the bugs out of the registration process?

And the Poker World is on edge again as Tom Dwan (Durrr) is a big chip leader in the 10K Pot Limit Omaha event.

There are still 33 players left, but Durrr (910k) has more than 50% more than the 2nd place player (563k). Some other big names are still left in this tournament including Hellmuth, Ulliot, Mercier, and Alaei.

[Oslo Ostragoth]

I don't know if I mentioned this, but Daniel Negreanu's twitter feed (http://twitter.com/RealKidPoker) is a good read - even doing a little coaching.

[Superhal]

Baller.


Not really. The winnings are based on the number of entry fees, minus the house take, and then put into a % table. It's not rare for first place to be a strange number like $123,449.37.

[SenorBeef]

Not really. The winnings are based on the number of entry fees, minus the house take, and then put into a % table. It's not rare for first place to be a strange number like $123,449.37.

No, he was asking how much the first place winner got because he had no idea and didn't care. The few hundred thousand dollars meant nothing for him, he was just trying to win it for the prop bets.

[notfrommensa]

Well, no big prop bets were paid off last night as Durrrr crashed and burned in the 10K PL Omaha and finished 17th. Hellmuth and Mercier are also out. They decided to carry the tournament into a 4th day for the final table. Ludavic Lucay and Daniel Alaei are players at the final table that I recognize and they are the two chip leaders. Another player I recognize is Alexander Kravchenko and he is one the short stacks. There should be some early action as the short stack have only 8X the Big Blind. (but no antes?)

Actually the WSoP has two big final tables happening today. The 10K PLO and the Tournament of Champions. The ToC features an all-star final table:

1 Mike Matusow 85,500
2 Huck Seed 73,000
3 Johnny Chan 68,600
4 Scotty Nguyen 64,700
5 Joe Hachem 64,300
6 Erik Seidel 58,900
7 Allen Cunningham 58,900
8 Phil Hellmuth 44,100
9 Annie Duke 42,600
10 Daniel Negreanu 39,900

What a lineup!

[notfrommensa]

Well it would have been a great final table if indeed it was the final table. Actually there were 18 players still left and the chip counts listed in the above post was the top 9.

They are now down to the final ten of the TOC. This is the lineup as it started about an hour ago

Seat 1: Annie Duke - 17, 900 (9bb)
Seat 2: Joe Hachem - 136,000 (68bb)
Seat 3: Erik Seidel - 35,600 (18bb)
Seat 4: Johnny Chan - 152,900 (76bb)
Seat 5: Daniel Negreanu - 175,000 (88bb)
Seat 6: Barry Greenstein - 51,500 (26bb)
Seat 7: Huck Seed - 100,300 (50bb)
Seat 8: Jennifer Harman - 53,400 (27bb)
Seat 9: T.J. Cloutier - 54,300 (27bb)
Seat 10: Howard Lederer - 31,000 (16bb)

Still a great lineup

Annie Duke has doubled up once through Hachem.


They are now at 300/1200/2400 antes and blinds.

[Oslo Ostragoth]

Does anyone do a live feed (real or animated) of these games? It would be way cool to rail.

[notfrommensa]

Huck Seed wins the ToC event at the WSoP over Howard Lederer. {yawn} I suspect that ESPN wanted two more exciting players in the finals. Johnny Chan was third, Barry Greenstein 4th.

[notfrommensa]

Daniel Alaei wins the 10K PL Omaha event

[notfrommensa]

And so it begins, Day 1A has started for the Main Event. Seidel, Matasow, Esfandiari, and Ray Romano are in todays field.

[notfrommensa]

Greg Raymor, 2004 ME Champion, was one of the first notable players to bust out of the main event. He lasted less than 1.5 hours.

He was the honorary starter of the Main Event. so maybe there is a "Shuffle Up and Deal" curse.

[Covered_In_Bees!]

For the main event, definitely better to bust out in less than two hours rather than in two days and still not make any money.

[notfrommensa]

For the main event, definitely better to bust out in less than two hours rather than in two days and still not make any money.

True enough.

However $5,000/hr is hard on the wallet. How many hand were dealt to him? Maybe 30? $333 per hand is lot to take.

[Oslo Ostragoth]

Greg Raymor, 2004 ME Champion, was one of the first notable players to bust out of the main event. He lasted less than 1.5 hours.

He was the honorary starter of the Main Event. so maybe there is a "Shuffle Up and Deal" curse.

PokerStars (http://www.pokerstarsblog.com/wsop/2010/wsop-main-event-day-1a-forget-the-20000-071051.html) blog:

"ELIMINATION OF THE HOUR
Greg Raymer. It was coming. And it came. The Fossilman had red pocket eights, half way to the winning hand he had in 2004. This time he was up against pocket aces, however, and couldn't outdraw. Raymer is gone."

[notfrommensa]

Maria Ho is amongst the early chip leaders on Day 1A. Amazing Race fans might remember Maria as a contestant with Tiffany Michelle.

Neither played in the Main Event last year as they were doing the race at the time.

[notfrommensa]

Tweet from Daniel Negreanu:

So bizarre, I signed yet another female body part that will become a tattoo. I will never, ever, get used to that.

So girls are getting tattoos of Kid Pokers autograph?

[notfrommensa]

deleted double post sorry

[notfrommensa]

The second Day 1 (Day 1B) is over, and some notables have busted out. Jamie Gold, Erick Lindgren, and Elky Grospellier are gone. 1125 and 1489 players entered Day 1A and Day 1B which is apparently slightly ahead of last year's pace.

Hopefully Day 1D won't be a cluster f*** like it was last year when they closed the entries.

Many of the biggest names have not played yet, like Hellmuth, Negreanu, Dolly, Duke, Matasow, Ivey, Durrrr. At least they haven't been mentioned in the pokernews blog. I have feeling that a lot of big names will be playing today, avoiding the circus that will happen tomorrow.

[ekweizn]

Random questions:
1. On these tournaments with multiple day 1's, do they keep players eliminated in previous days from rebuying into the tournament the next day? If so, how?
2. What's the rake (or whatever the proper term is for the difference between entrance fees collected and total payouts) for the main event?

[Covered_In_Bees!]

2) I heard the take was two or three percent. With another one percent or so going directly do dealers or such.

[notfrommensa]

Random questions:
1. On these tournaments with multiple day 1's, do they keep players eliminated in previous days from rebuying into the tournament the next day? If so, how?
2. What's the rake (or whatever the proper term is for the difference between entrance fees collected and total payouts) for the main event?

1. I think every player is requited to have a players card and other ids that act as failsafes against a tournament rebuy.

2. I think the house take on the WSoP 10K events is about 3%. Split between the house and the dealers. I think the players (who win) generally put in about 1% of their winnings in form of dealer tokes.

assuming it is 3% and 7000 players, the rake is 2.1 Million dollars.

I've been trying to estimate how many "dealer hours" are logged in the WSoP main event.

Back of the envelope calculation (anyone got a better method?)

~800 out of 1125 made it through the first day. I would guess that there was an average of 1000 people per hour. 9 players/table or 111 tables * 9 hrs or back to a 1000 hours

~1018 of of 1489 players made it through Day 1b. Same calculation would lead to 1200 dealer hours)

Based on day 1, dealer hours are somewhere about 85% of the players in the field.

I am skipping some steps, but I think the total number of hours logged from dealers is about 5000 hours.

Assuming that the dealers get half the rake, (1,000,000) that equates to $20/hr.


And Peter Eastgate has 'retired' (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=da&sl=da&tl=en&u=http://www.pokernyhederne.com/poker-nyheder/7/12783/pokerstop-peter-eastgate/peter-eastgate-stopper-med-poker.html)

[Covered_In_Bees!]

Good for Eastgate!

Nice to see someone that doesn't go and make poker the only thing they do once they have a short burst of success.

He was playing for the money, he now has a very large amount of it and the world is his oyster. Best wishes to him.

[notfrommensa]

Good for Eastgate!

Nice to see someone that doesn't go and make poker the only thing they do once they have a short burst of success.

He was playing for the money, he now has a very large amount of it and the world is his oyster. Best wishes to him.

Yes, I am happy for him, and quite a bit jealous. Financially secure at age 24 and able to pursue his life's dreams. He appears smart enough not to self destruct and "blow it".


Phil Hellmuth is suppose to be playing today. Making his usual fashionably late appearance dressed as a MMA fighter. Can't wait. :rolleyes:

other players in todays field include Negreanu, defending Champ Joe Cada, and Dennis Phillips.

[Covered_In_Bees!]

He appears smart enough not to self destruct and "blow it".

I agree. By the mere fact he hasn't let all the recent money go to his head and cloud his mind from pursuing his dreams shows he's well within the realm of being responsible with his money.

[notfrommensa]

Poker Brat Phil Hellmuth is down to 12,300 at the dinner break. Starting stacks were 30K.

Darn.

Johnny Chan is doing very well. Amongst the chip leaders

[Oslo Ostragoth]

WSOP hand of the day from Tuesday:

"All-in pre-flop Paulo Rink, a PokerStars qualifier from Brazil, turned over pocket kings. Next to him though was Brandon Adams who had called with pocket aces leaving Rink looking for help. He got it. The door card was a king, but as the rest of the flop emerged an ace also featured. Queue that 'punched in the stomach' noise from everyone at the table and all those who'd heard that noise and leapt chairs to see for themselves.

But this hand wasn't done just yet. The turn card may have blanked the Brazilian but the river card didn't, a fourth king giving Rink quads, Adams great pain and everyone else a good story."

From the PokerStars blog (http://www.pokerstarsblog.com/wsop/2010/wsop-main-event-day-1b-a-magical-year-071104.html).

[notfrommensa]

Hellmuth did not survive Day 1. Awwww And when it was announced in the room, there was a big cheer. His pocket Jacks were up against Pocket Queens and A-K.

Durrrr also busted out day 1c.

There were 7319 players in this years main event. Up 825 from last year. There were 400+ less people on Day 1D than last year so I guess they did avoid the clusterf**k from last year.

[Oslo Ostragoth]

Plus it is cool that Jack's Links Beef Jerky is giving a lifetime supply to anyone who scores quad jacks.

[Covered_In_Bees!]

Plus it is cool that Jack's Links Beef Jerky is giving a lifetime supply to anyone who scores quad jacks.

It's only $100 worth. :(

[SenorBeef]

Well, eating $100 worth of beef jerky at one time would probably kill you, so maybe they could consider it a lifetime supply on that basis.

[notfrommensa]

Reading the blog this morning, they are confirming that there are 7319 players. The total purse is $68,798,600. Simple math means that Harrahs is taking :eek: 6% :eek: of the purse as their cut. (dealers, promotion, etc)

Six percent, ($4.3 Million) is lot more than I thought.

I have no clue what Jack Links, ESPN and others pay in sponsorships.

I also have no clue what Full Tilt, Poker Stars etc. pay the "donkeys" and
"dead money" players who get lucky enough to get on a featured table.

If I ever got on a featured table, I would shave all the hair that is left on my head and pimp out my chrome dome to the highest bidder.

[SenorBeef]

Harrahs is pretty evil. They do their best to delay and stiff the payments to the dealers too - last I heard (and this was 2 years ago) they had to get dealers in from out of town because thel locals didn't want to work like crazy during the series and get stiffed by Harrahs again.

[notfrommensa]

Here is an article (http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/7160-wsop-a-day-in-the-life-of-a-dealer) on Poker Dealers at the WSoP.

the article says that the dealers get 1.8%, which is $1.3 million.

[Oslo Ostragoth]

Another awesome blog (http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-journal.php?subaction=showfull&id=1278899575&archive=&start_from=&ucat=&) by Kid Poker.

[notfrommensa]

Reading the PokerNews blog, I found this entry:


We've just received word about a rather remarkable WSOP story involving Belgian player Philip Goossens.

Goossens was an online qualifier who made it safely through to day three with 92,400 chips. The story that has been passed on to us, is that Goossens' package with the online poker site only extended until yesterday, and as such we would have to pay out of his own pocket to change his flights and book further accommodation to extend his stay.

Unfortunately Goossens couldn't afford to do that, so instead of seeking some financial assistance from perhaps some friends, family or fellow players, Goossens insted decided to head home, leaving his dead stack to fend for itself.

At the moment his stack is down to 58,900 and it doesn't look like it's going to survive the day.

Why go to the Main event if you cannot stay long enough to win anything?

[Covered_In_Bees!]

Probably just to experience the World Series and because he was on a completely free ride. I'd do the same in a heartbeat.

[notfrommensa]

I'd go too, but I would sell some interest in my WSoP earnings at that point to stay until i was eliminated.

I would have booked an open return ticket, and you can book hotel rooms in Vegas pretty cheaply during the week. If you have to go to Holiday Inn Express.

Of course, he could have had a real job that he had to get back to.

[Oslo Ostragoth]

Amazing story here (http://www.pokerstarsblog.com/wsop/2010/wsop-main-event-day-2b-robert-solock-sho-071289.html).

"I've only been playing poker for two months when I won a satellite seat for $1," he wrote.

[notfrommensa]

Day 3 is complete. It appears that many of the biggest names in poker are out of this tournament by now. Negreanu, Harmin, Moneymaker, and defending champ Cada busted out on day3.

But ESPN is probably very happy that Johnny Chan is amongst the chip leaders. One of my favorite poker players, Sam Fahra, has as an above average chip stack.

1240 players remain and 747 will be in the money.

The avg chip stack is about 177,000 and they are 300/1200/2400 antes and blinds. So the average stack had enough chips for 28 orbits.

They started the day at a avg chip stack of 86,000 and 100/500/1000 antes and blinds. the avg chip stack had enough chips for 35 orbits.

FWIW, they start the tournament with 200 orbits.

[notfrommensa]

Day 4 is in the books:

574 people. Johnny Chan is still amongst the chip leaders

Avg Stack is 382K
Antes/Blinds is 1K/3K/6K
1 orbit = 18K
~21 orbits per average Stack

When they got to the 2009 Final table, the avg stack had 26.7 orbits

Summary of orbits per avg stack:

Start: 200 orbits
End Day 1: 41 orbits
End Day 2: 35 orbits
End Day 3: 29 orbits
End Day 4: 21 orbits

blinds/antes are increasing faster than people are busting.

[notfrommensa]

Reading the blogs during the "bubble" period. A guy went busto with pocket aces (lost to pocket jacks) in 749th place. he still had 135K so he could have lasted about 60 more hands.

After he went out, a guy on a severe short stack and the Big blind got a walk. He had 4K after he posted his big blind which was enough for about 8 hands if he had folded.

THE Bubble guy lost with pocket queens to a guy with A-2 suited. The flop was A-A-2, so there was little suspense on the turn and the river.

They played hand-to-hand about 50 minutes. I didn't see how many hands were played, but I would guess it wasn't much more than 10 hands.

I have read on the blogs that players go "in the tank" for as long as 10 minutes. 10 minutes! Good gawd.

[Oslo Ostragoth]

Another amazing story here (http://www.pokernews.com/news/2010/07/2010-world-series-of-poker-a-chip-and-a-chair-brings-gualter-8558.htm):

"Former IRL and CART driver, Team PokerStars Pro Gualter Salles was down to just one single, solitary, lonely yellow 1,000 chip Wednesday afternoon at the World Series of Poker Main Event. Salles has since turned his 1,000 into 425,000."

[notfrommensa]

There is some truth to the old adage. All you need is a chip and a chair.

In a brick and mortar casino tournament, I called a fellow who was all-in right before a break. I had him out chipped by $25. he won, so I was left with one $25 chip. During the break, the were coloring up the $25 chips. Since you can get busted on a color-up I ended up with a $100 chip when I came back from break.

the antes were $100 so i was all-in on the first hand. I lost. So I needed a lot more than a chip and chair. IIRC, I had 10/9 suited, a playable hand.

[Covered_In_Bees!]

Johnny Chan in top 10 in chips at the end of day five. Scotty Nguyen is in there somewhere too.

Either one will make for a great story if they can keep going deep. Scotty with a blown final table (almost) appearance needs to make up for that. And Johnny Chan has accomplished a few things in the poker world I hear and for him to survive even deeper, no matter the finish already adds a little heft to his meager resume.

[notfrommensa]

pokernews has Scotty Nguyen has busted.

205 players left after Day 5. Avg stack (1.07 Million) has 25.5 orbits. 2k/8k/16k.

Johnny Chan is in 9th place in chips and IMO the the only "A-list" poker player still playing. I am sure ESPN desparately wants him to continue to play well.

I do not recognize a lot of names left in the field. Here's a few: Jean Robert Bellande is still in the field at 946K chips. David Benyamin is one of the short stacks at 353K. Michael Mizrachi, Johnny Lodden and Phil Galfond are still in the field.

Chip leader (Evan Lamprea) has 3.3 times the avg stack and does not have a huge lead over #2.

[SenorBeef]

Phil Galfond is probably the best player left by a large margin. Can't say for sure since obviously I'm not familiar with the entire roster, could be some hidden geniuses in there.

[notfrommensa]

Better than Johnny Chan? :dubious:

[SenorBeef]

Almost certainly far better. I haven't had a chance to analyze Chan personally outside of various tournament appearances, but to be honest, the guys who've been around the block all these years almost never have the fundamental intellectual skillset of the newer, more game theory oriented younger internet players. If they played HU4ROLLZ Galfond would almost certainly be the one walking away with the money.

[notfrommensa]

Poker Stars if offering this free roll tonight (http://www.pokernews.com/live-reporting/2010-wsop/main-event/post.160886.htm) FWIW.

I'm registered..starts in about 2 hrs...

[notfrommensa]

Johnny Chan and Phil Galfond have busted out of the Main Event.

~136 players left. reviewing the chip counts, I did not see any names that are obviously female. However, I think Breeze Zuckerman is female and that person is still playing.

[notfrommensa]

Breeze Zuckerman was the last woman in the Main event. And she just went Busto.

She went all-in under the gun with K/10? off and the button called with Pocket Aces.

[Covered_In_Bees!]

That was fun. See you guys in November:

Seat 1: Jason Senti - 7,625,000
Seat 2: Joseph 'subiime' Cheong - 23,525,000
Seat 3: John Dolan - 46,250,000
Seat 4: Jonathan Duhamel - 65,975,000
Seat 5: Michael 'The Grinder' Mizrachi - 14,450,000
Seat 6: Matthew Jarvis - 16,700,000
Seat 7: John Racener - 23,525,000
Seat 8: Filippo Candio - 16,400,000
Seat 9: Soi Nguyen - 9,650,000

Jonathan Duhamel - 65,975,000
John Dolan - 46,250,000
Joe Cheong - 23,525,000
John Racener - 19,050,000
Matthew Jarvis - 16,700,000
Filippo Candio - 16,400,000
'The Grinder'- 14,450,000
Soi Nguyen - 9,650,000
Jason Senti - 7,625,000

[Oslo Ostragoth]

Poker Stars if offering this free roll tonight (http://www.pokernews.com/live-reporting/2010-wsop/main-event/post.160886.htm) FWIW.

I'm registered..starts in about 2 hrs...

You guys are gonna love this:

I entered the freeroll (even registered late - about ten minutes in), but had to leave the computer for a frakking Family Dinner before playing a hand. When I got back 1.5 - 2 hours later, we were nearing the bubble (IIRC it paid 1170/6000), and I had 10 chips left with blinds at 200/100.

The BB puts me all in, but I triple up with T5o against QQ when I flopped two pair. The SB also puts me all in, but lightning strikes again and I double up to 60 chips. Very soon we are in hand-to-hand play, and 222 losers bust out before the blinds bust me for good next time around.

948th for $0.44* in cold, hard, real American money.

Proof here (http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn104/OsloOstragoth/Freeroll2/freeroll.jpg). (I'm OtbertVII at Stars)

I think I have a new strategy for tournament play: register, then disappear.



*I think this boosts my cash account to $0.50. Big time, baby!

[Robot Arm]

Breeze Zuckerman was the last woman in the Main event. And she just went Busto.

She went all-in under the gun with K/10? off and the button called with Pocket Aces.Hey, that play worked for you on Thursday.



Well, yours were suited, but close enough.

[notfrommensa]

The November 9 will have an average 24.3 Million chip stack. but only two of the nine of stacks greater than average. The chip leader has a huge lead.

antes/Blinds are 50K/250K/500K, avg stack has 20.3 orbits. Last year, the avg stack had 26.7 orbits. So the action should go a little faster this final table versus last years final table.

[SenorBeef]

Oh good, so the most important part of the tournament by far will leave the least amount of skill and complexity involved. Ahh, tournaments - where you get a few hundred BB on level 1 where it barely matters, and only a few BB at the last stage where all the actual important stuff is happening.

[notfrommensa]

Do you really think that this is the fault of the tournament structure? I don't

IMO, it is the players fault that the blinds are so big at this time. The play is so laboriously slow. I keep reading that plays tank for 10 minutes before making their play. I can't imagine why it would take more than 1 minute to make a play.

Last year, at the final table, they played 276 hands, in 17 hours, Gross. ~ 15 hours net. 18.4 hands per hour or more than 3 minutes per hand. Most hands didn't go to a flop.

I would guess that most hands that went to the river lasted at least 7 minutes. Good Gawd, that is a long time for dealing out 23 cards. (at the most).

[SenorBeef]

Of course it's the fault of the structure. That's how tournaments are designed - they're intentionally very lottery-like but making the structure top heavy and ensuring there's almost no skill involved at the point. The WSOP ME is better than most, but it's so anticlimactic for there to be early stages with actual good poker involved always devolve into some preflop pushfest.

But this is how the poker audience wants it apparently and I have no idea why. What do people get out of watching poker on TV when it's all just all in preflop races? Do they actually enjoy the cards being dramatically turned over to see who happened to hit their 50/50 shot this time? Would those same people watch someone playing a slot machine? Very peculiar to me.

I agree that the slow play is obnoxious.

[notfrommensa]

The tournament has 2 hour structures. How much longer would you want them to be? 4 hours 6 hours?

Maybe you think they should still be 100/200 blinds?

if the blinds were twice as long, the tournament could arguably last twice as long. Right now, the winner will play 10 days to win the tournament. 10 days! how many working stiffs can afford to take that many vacation days.

The tournament leader has worked very hard to get his substantial lead. He deserves to have the advantage going into the final table. And the higher the blinds, the more advantage he has.

Personally i think the structure is pretty close to where it should be.

[notfrommensa]

FTR, the average stack has enough for 20-30 orbits since Day 3


Start 200.0 orbits
End Day 1 40.9
End Day 2 35.8
End Day 3 29.0
End Day 4 21.3
End Day 5 25.5
End Day 6 23.5
End Day 7 25.8
End Day 8 20.3

[SenorBeef]

Sorry, I guess I'm kind of dragging this into a hijack. It's not necesarily the time per level, so much as the design of the levels. You could still give tournaments the same time to finish by making the earlier levels shallower and making the later levels deeper - and this would actually work out better for most people since they'd bust earlier and not waste so much time. Although, I guess, if you're a player who looks at the time spent at a tournament as a benefit in itself, rather than a cost, you'd see it differently.

But combining a top-heavy structure with a structure that's designed to have lots of play early and very little late makes it as lottery-like as you can manage. The ways to fix this are flattening the payouts (which has happened slowly) and structure the tournaments to have more play towards the end.

I mean - don't you find it silly that subtle, skilled 200+ bet deep poker can happen when there are 5000 people in it and no money is yet really at stake, and yet when we're down to 20 or 30 and all the money is being determined we're now playing a simplified 15 bet preflop pushfest?

Edit: Seeing the numbers in the post above, that's flatter than I thought, so my criticisms are partially out of place. I guess I just don't keep up with tournaments anymore. The M number you detail doesn't necesarily indicate everything there is about the depth of play though - the stack sizes relative to BB plays a somewhat different role in how deeply the hand can play, and hence, the complexity of the decisions involved.

[notfrommensa]

IMO, I think your proposal over values the the last stages of the tournament at the expense of the early stages. IMO, Day 1 should count every bit as days 8 and 9.

[SenorBeef]

Why? If the dropoff between first and 5th place is 9m vs 1.5m (estimating), that's a significant portion of the tournament being determined when play is 5 handed. Yet 5 handed will be less complex and hence less conducive to actual poker skill than any previous point in the tournament. They played all these days to make it this far, only to have the majority of the money determined during the least skillful part of the play. Combining top-heavy structures with shallow stacks at the end is exactly what you'd do if you wanted to seperate poker skill from winning money. Why is that desirable by anyone who's serious about poker?

Edit: And in any case, defending the status quo is not saying that Day 1 should be equally important to the FT. It's saying that it should be more important. The status quo favors complex, real poker early and some crippled half-assed poker late.

[notfrommensa]

Are you implying TPTB of the WSoP aren't "serious" about poker. I believe that they receive a lot of input from the "serious" poker players who play in many of the events. I think they know what they are doing.

It is not all about the final table. There is 68.8 Million purse for the ME of WSoP. 58% of that has already been won by players who did not make it to the final table.

[SenorBeef]

Are you implying TPTB of the WSoP aren't "serious" about poker. I believe that they receive a lot of input from the "serious" poker players who play in many of the events. I think they know what they are doing.


I think they're trying to sell a product to people whose interest in poker aren't necesarily related to the quality of poker being played. The poker watching audience, and hence ESPN, is a significant factor in designing these things - and for reasons that baffle me, the poker watching audience is completely uninterested in interesting, skilled poker. Every time ESPN shows a non-hold em game that could be interesting, or one of the networks tries to show a game that has deep, non-crapshoot play, the show fails. I mean, there are exceptions like High Stakes Poker on GSN, but I'm guessing its ratings are still dwarfed by the major network coverage, just that GSN is satisfied with those ratings.

For whatever reason, the TV audience wants to see people pushing all in preflop because they only have 8BB to work with and other people calling because their push range is huge, and then watching the cards slowly and dramatically dealt. Poker after dark is actually an interesting example of this - once a season they'll have a cash game which is as interesting and good as any poker that's ever been on tv, yet they still spend 95% of the season playing these crappy little sit and go tournaments with boring poker. I can only guess that's what the audience wants.


It is not all about the final table. There is 68.8 Million purse for the ME of WSoP. 58% of that has already been won by players who did not make it to the final table.

I only bring up the FT because it's the most extreme and obvious example. In general, the tournament becomes more crapshooty as time goes on - so those people who are busting near the bubble too have less room for play than the people starting on day 1. It's still the same problem, just a different matter of degree.

[notfrommensa]

Odds to win the main event (http://www.betus.com/sportsbook/poker-other_sports_futures-wsop_2010_main_event.aspx).

Chip leader is 11/4. Short stack is 16/1.

[Oslo Ostragoth]

Phil Helmuth issues (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYPP2TmSifA) a bad beat to the beef jerky Sasquatch - bad idea. "It's just a bad beat. Show a little class, buddy." LOL

[Dead Cat]

SenorBeef, I defer to your experience as a poker player and commentator (which is much greater than my own), but I'm not sure it's so related to the TV audience as you think. For one thing, I am part of that audience and I agree with you - I am not interested in watching all-in shoves followed by 50-50 races. Granted, it may well be that this represents a small proportion of the TV audience, but I don't believe it's an insignificant one.

More importantly, though, I think that the WSOP wants people to feel like they are getting value for money from the main event. It is, after all, only the biggest event in poker because people want to play in it, and the majority of entrants are not poker pros. While many of these no doubt get in cheaply through internet sites, a large number must stump up the full $10k. If the structure were reversed (to go to the other extreme) so that you had 20 orbits at the start and 200 orbits at the final table, this would result in many more people busting early. These people would not feel like they had had a reasonable amount of play for their $10,000, and would be less likely to enter next year (IMO). So I think the WSOP is catering for the majority of their players, not the majority of the TV audience (though this probably plays a part as well).

Additonally, as others have said, I'm not sure that it is possible to solve this problem except by making the event unacceptably long. Just out of interest, what sort of structure would you propose for the WSOP ME?

[Oslo Ostragoth]

Phil Helmuth issues (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYPP2TmSifA) a bad beat to the beef jerky Sasquatch - bad idea. "It's just a bad beat. Show a little class, buddy." LOL

And now he goes after the sweet Jennifer Harman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJUcZRF9rKY).

[notfrommensa]

Courtesy Bump, to let everyone know that the final table for the "November Nine" happens a week from tomorrow.

Here are the participants, chip counts, and Ladbrokes odds on who will win: (Spoiled in case you want to watch the poker telecasts on ESPN next week.


Jonathan Duhamel (65,975,000 chips) … 2/1
John Dolan (46,250,000 chips) … 3/1
Joseph Cheong (23,525,000 chips) … 8/1
John Racener (19,050,000 chips) … 8/1
Matthew Jarvis (16,700,000 chips) … 12/1
Filippo Candio (16,400,000 chips) … 12/1
Michael Mizrachi (14,450,000 chips) … 6/1
Soi Nguyen (9,650,000 chips) … 20/1
Jason Senti (7,625,000 chips) … 20/1


Interesting, the most well known name in the final table is 7th in chips, but is the third favorite to win.



Click here (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/poker/columns/story?columnist=wise_gary&id=5390285), if you want to see an ESPN article on the November Nine.

[Covered_In_Bees!]

Awesome! Thanks for the heads-up, I had completely forgotten that the final table was coming up.

[notfrommensa]

No problem, CIB, the final 18 get to the November Nine tonight on ESPN.

9 PM Eastern for two hours.

[Lamar Mundane]

I've gotten robocalls from Dennis Phillips on my cellphone each of the last two days asking me to vote for the Democrat in the Colorado Senate race. I have no idea how he got my cell number and how anyone knew I'd even know who he was. I haven't played poker for several years, although I used to.

[notfrommensa]

Preview article (http://www.bluffmagazine.com/wsop-november-9/) on the November Nine.

[notfrommensa]

Shuffle and Deal happened a few minutes ago.

Here is live reporting from Pokernews (http://www.pokernews.com/live-reporting/2010-wsop/main-event/)

[notfrommensa]

Dinner break: If they started at noon local time, they played 90 hands in 7 hours. with breaks, 90 hands in 6 hours. 15 hands per hour. 4 minutes per hand. Most hands do not get to the flop.

The problem is not the blinds escalate quickly. The problem is the slow play.

two players have been eliminated, Nguyen in 9th and Jarvis in 8th

[Covered_In_Bees!]

Are they going to play through the night until it's down to two? Or will they stop at a certain level/time of night/morning and restart sometime Sunday?

[notfrommensa]

No, they were going into the final two, no matter what last night. (good thing time "fell back" last night.

It took 219 hands, but they got down to the final two. It took about 14 hours (12 hours net?) to play the 219 hands. Or an average of 17 hands per hour.

Results to the final two:


Jonathon Duhamel (~189 Million) and John Racener (~30 Million) are the final two. It is an overwhelming chip lead for the Canadian. antes/Blinds are 200K/600K/1.2M. Very good chance that head-up play will only last a few hands.

Joseph Cheong lost the biggest pot in WSoP history (Hand #213) when he win all-in with A-7 Off and Duhamel called with pocket Queens. Duhamel was at risk and winning this pot put him in the overwhelming chip lead.

Candio was 4th. eliminated on hand #188

Mizarchi (Grinder) was 5th, eliminated on hand #185

Dolan was 6th, Hand #129

Senti was 7th, Hand #116

Jarvis was 8th Hand #43

Nguyen was 9th Hand , Hand 28

A lot hands between 7th and 8th, and 6th and 7th.



The final two go at it Monday night, and ESPN's coverage of the final table will be Tuesday night. heavily edited of course.

[Covered_In_Bees!]

So which one is the asshole and which one is the good guy? :P

[Cyberhwk]

Well, Duhamel is Canadian...

[notfrommensa]

And the winner of the Main event of the WSoP is:

Jonathon Duhamel, Congratz to the Quebecer, It took about 40 hands. Won with A/J off versus Racener K/8 diamonds