Scandals and political affiliation

[dougie_monty]

Regarding the recent "scandal" about Jesse Jackson, isn't it strange that only Democrats and left-wingers are ever implicated?
Or does it mean that the political right controls the news media? And, hey, they're not going to criticize one of their own, even if it means stacking the deck.
Am I right?

[Coldfire]

The media doesn't reflect scandals regarding right wing politicians? You DO know there has been a presidential election recently, right? In the United States, even?

[pldennison]

Originally posted by dougie_monty
Regarding the recent "scandal" about Jesse Jackson, isn't it strange that only Democrats and left-wingers are ever implicated?

You must have missed Newt Gingrich. And Dan Burton. And Robert Livingston. And Rudolph Giuliani.

Or does it mean that the political right controls the news media? And, hey, they're not going to criticize one of their own, even if it means stacking the deck.
Am I right?

Wait, I thought the media was controlled by liberals. :rolleyes:

[dougie_monty]

Be my guest, Coldfire, enlighten me about sexual scandals, including any involving George W. Bush--perhaps I should have specified such in the OP. As for the presidential election, I don't know whether the reason was geographical (I live in Southern California), but I saw no commercial spots for Gore, only for Bush! And during the Reagan years the Presidents we heard scandals about were F. D. Roosevelt and Kennedy--never Eisenhower, Nixon, Hoover, or Ford. Doesn't that raise a question in your mind?

[CnoteChris]

Originally posted by dougie_monty
Am I right?

Not in my opinion.

I seem to recall Newt Gingerich getting his ass torched for having an extra-marital affair. It pretty much ended his political aspirations at that time.

It goes both ways when your dealing with affairs and things of the like. Both sides do it and both sides would rather it never come up as an issue.

[dougie_monty]

Thanks just the same, Cnote Chris. :) And I thought Gingrich's days were numbered when it was revealed that he had a lesbian sister...

[Coldfire]

Originally posted by dougie_monty
Be my guest, Coldfire, enlighten me about sexual scandals, including any involving George W. Bush--perhaps I should have specified such in the OP. As for the presidential election, I don't know whether the reason was geographical (I live in Southern California), but I saw no commercial spots for Gore, only for Bush! And during the Reagan years the Presidents we heard scandals about were F. D. Roosevelt and Kennedy--never Eisenhower, Nixon, Hoover, or Ford. Doesn't that raise a question in your mind? You didn't specify sexual - but I'm sure someone (other than a Dutchman ;)) can come up with some sexual scandals that brought Republicans to the limelight in a bad way.
Reagan makes a lot of thoughts come to my mind (few positive ones, BTW), but I don't think for one minute that the American media are now, or have been at one time the last 30 years, controlled by one political side or the other.

[dougie_monty]

I like that bulleting, Coldfire. How do I find out how to do it? :)
Reagan makes a lot of thoughts come to my mind (few positive ones, BTW), but I don't think for one minute that the American media are now, or have been at one time the last 30 years, controlled by one political side or the other.
You've raised an interesting point. Perhaps with right-wingers it's less relevant: all one needs to do is reel off the financial and political scandals of right-wingers. (Meese and Wedtech, Nixon and Watergate, Reagan and the Iran-Contra mess come to mind.)
As for which political faction controls the news media, I got an odd comment about this during the 1988 presidential campaign. I'm from Indiana, and some relatives visited us in California during the late summer. One, a retired employee of state government, said that Quayle's grandfather owned most of the news media in central Indiana, and used it to help Quayle defeat the popular senator Birch Bayh in the 1980 senatorial contest in Indiana. When I told that to someone I know locally (since deceased), who I knew to be a right winger, he came up with a smart-aleck remark: "Well, Bayh is an ultra-liberal!"
Not appreciating this jeering remark, I sourly shot back, "You buy a rope--I'll go find a tree!" He never discussed politics with me again.

[IzzyR]

Originally posted by dougie_monty
As for the presidential election, I don't know whether the reason was geographical (I live in Southern California), but I saw no commercial spots for Gore, only for Bush!Nothing in that. The Gore people did not think they had to worry about winning California, so they wisely used their money for "battleground states" in which the vote was closer. Towards the end of the campaign, the Bush camp became overly confident and thought they had an outside shot at winning CA. Plus, they had this strategy of projecting themselves as winners, and thought by making CA appear to be competitive it would serve this purpose. This led them to spend about $3M a week (IIRC) in the final weeks of the campaign. Bad move, as it turned out.

In any event, speculating that a discrepancy in paid commercial advertising is the result of Republican control of the media sounds like far-fetched "vast right wing conspiracy" speculation.

[beakerxf]

Originally posted by dougie_monty
Thanks just the same, Cnote Chris. :) And I thought Gingrich's days were numbered when it was revealed that he had a lesbian sister...

Well Dick Cheney seems to be surviving politically despite having a lesbian daughter. Sonny Bono also didn't seem to suffer any political fall-out for being father to Chastity. If I were a right winger, I would assume raising gays would be far more scandalous than merely being related to one.

How about Henry Hyde? (I think that's his name). A critic of Clinton's actions with Lewinsky, he eventually had to fess up to having a 14 year affair.

[UncleBeer]

Oh fer gawd's sake. Does no one remember the stink raised about one of Dubya's "lady friends" supposedly getting an abortion? And the attacks on him for that since he claims to be "pro-life?" Sheesh, are your memories that short?

[dougie_monty]

Well, Dick Cheney seems to be surviving politically despite having a lesbian daughter. Sonny Bono also didn't seem to suffer any political fall-out for being father to Chastity. If I were a right winger, I would assume raising gays would be far more scandalous than merely being related to one.
I confess that I didn't know this about Cheney. Perhaps people are going easy on him because of his known heart condition...

How about Henry Hyde? (I think that's his name). A critic of Clinton's actions with Lewinsky, he eventually had to fess up to having a 14 year affair.
Here we go again with motes and beams.

Oh fer gawd's sake. Does no one remember the stink raised about one of Dubya's "lady friends" supposedly getting an abortion? And the attacks on him for that since he claims to be "pro-life?" Sheesh, are your memories that short?
Oh wow...now that's an interesting tidbit. Have Democrats in Texas during George's governorship--or in Washington since the election was decided--raised a stink about this? I hope they do. Whose ox is being gored?
The Teeming Millions may have seen this morning's headlines about Bush and his abortion philosophy; since he has now divulged his official position he should be truthful enough to give his honest position as well! (This concept stolen from Hawkeye on M*A*S*H) :D

[John Corrado]

Originally posted by dougie_monty
Be my guest, Coldfire, enlighten me about sexual scandals, including any involving George W. Bush--perhaps I should have specified such in the OP. As for the presidential election, I don't know whether the reason was geographical (I live in Southern California), but I saw no commercial spots for Gore, only for Bush! And during the Reagan years the Presidents we heard scandals about were F. D. Roosevelt and Kennedy--never Eisenhower, Nixon, Hoover, or Ford. Doesn't that raise a question in your mind?

Yes, as to what you've been smoking.

The scandals about Eisenhower's suggested extra-marital affair with Kay Summersby came out in the early-mid '70's (though those in the know had speculated about them since the late '40's).

As for Nixon, Ford, Reagan, and Hoover- maybe they just had the presence of mind to keep it in their damned pants. Though I notice you leave out Harding from the list, whose conspicous affairs finally entered the public conciousness in the '70's and '80's.

As for recent sexual scandals- don't you remember Bob Livingstone, who was slated to become Speaker after Gingrich stepped down, only to have it revealed by Larry Flynt that Livingstone had had an extra-marital affair?

dougie, I'm afraid this entire thread reflects less upon "Republican dominated media" than your own inability to keep up with current events and think critically.

[dougie_monty]

Doesn't that raise a question in your mind?
Yes, as to what you've been smoking.
Very funny.

The scandals about Eisenhower's suggested extra-marital affair with Kay Summersby came out in the early-mid '70's (though those in the know had speculated about them since the late '40's).{/QUOTE]
Can you give me a source for this? Lord knows Nixon wouldn't want this known lest it louse up the marital relationship between his daughter and Ike's grandson...

[QUOTE]I notice you leave out Harding from the list, whose conspicous affairs finally entered the public conciousness in the '70's and '80's.
Now that I think about this, it would seem to me that Harding's presidency was such an embarrassment (Harry Daugherty, Teapot Dome, etc.) even to dyed-in-the-wool Republicans that the Nan Britton affair would be just surfeit. Even if she hadn't written, and had published, that book, I'd say Harding's goose was cooked without Ms. Beritton's presence.

As for recent sexual scandals- don't you remember Bob Livingstone, who was slated to become Speaker after Gingrich stepped down, only to have it revealed by Larry Flynt that Livingstone had had an extra-marital affair?

dougie, I'm afraid this entire thread reflects less upon "Republican dominated media" than your own inability to keep up with current events and think critically.
Larry Flynt? Is this the same Larry Flynt who publishes Hustler? The same Larry Flynt who wore a diaper when he appeared before the Supreme Court? Forgive me, but I think you'll have to muster a better source--not that I really need one to view a Republican Speaker with acute disfavor... :)

[2nd Law]

Originally posted by UncleBeer
Oh fer gawd's sake. Does no one remember the stink raised about one of Dubya's "lady friends" supposedly getting an abortion? And the attacks on him for that since he claims to be "pro-life?" Sheesh, are your memories that short?

Actually, I must be living in a cave or something. I hadn't heard this story until you mentioned it, UncleBeer.
I'm no fan of President Bush, and I think that his recent decision to limit funding to groups that distribute information overseas about abortion sucks.
However, Larry Flynt's claim that GWB's lady friend had an abortion did not include a claim that GWB encouraged her to have an abortion, or even knew she was pregnant, according to this pro-choice site (http://prochoice.about.com/newsissues/prochoice/library/weekly/aa103100a.htm).
I also saw some conflicting stories about what GWB knew and when regarding the pregnancy and abortion, but until I get to read the affadavits Flynt claims to have, I'm willing to presume GWB didn't know what was going on.

[Flymaster]

Dougie: How about virtually any nationally known (tel)evangelist other than Jesse Jackson that's been caught poking a member of the flock? Pretty much all of them are "right wingers."

[Necros]

Bob Packwood, anyone?

[beakerxf]

Originally posted by dougie_monty

Here we go again with motes and beams.


There was no motes or beams in my statement. Hyde was a vocal critic of Clinton and in turn someone dug up the goods on him. The two facts were related. I'll let you know when I truly wish to make a "mote and beam" statement.

[Sublight]

John Tower was a Republican, wasn't he?

[Jonathan Chance]

Originally posted by UncleBeer
Oh fer gawd's sake. Does no one remember the stink raised about one of Dubya's "lady friends" supposedly getting an abortion? And the attacks on him for that since he claims to be "pro-life?" Sheesh, are your memories that short?

Actually, UB, speaking as someone who covered politics and the media for two years (1998-2000) I've got to go with 2nd Law on this one. We saw the story and knew about it, sure, but the credibility factor assigned to it by us and our colleagues in the media as a whole was somewhere in the negatives. It's just not a reliable story.

Trust me. There is no overall liberal or conservative bias in the media. We'd bring 'em all down if we could, just to prove our power. The story UncleBeer mentions is classic. If there was confirmation of that story (or even some decent corrobarating evidence) we'd be talking about President Gore or McCain these days. Nothing excites a political reporter more than destroying a politician, even (maybe especially) if you agree with his or her politics.

[pldennison]

Originally posted by dougie_monty
[QUOTE]As for recent sexual scandals- don't you remember Bob Livingstone, who was slated to become Speaker after Gingrich stepped down, only to have it revealed by Larry Flynt that Livingstone had had an extra-marital affair?

dougie, I'm afraid this entire thread reflects less upon "Republican dominated media" than your own inability to keep up with current events and think critically.
Larry Flynt? Is this the same Larry Flynt who publishes Hustler? The same Larry Flynt who wore a diaper when he appeared before the Supreme Court? Forgive me, but I think you'll have to muster a better source . . .

What are you, incapable of reading English or something? It doesn't matter who revealed the affair. It doesn't matter whether it was Larry Flynt, Matt Drudge or Mighty Mouse. After it was revealed, Livingstone admitted it, realized that he would be a hypocrite to accept the Speaker position after his criticism of Clinton, and resigned from the Senate.

[Ukulele Ike]

Bush the First had a mistress. Remember when that came out, around 1990 or so?

Can't say as I blame him; if I were married to Barbara, I'd be looking for something on the side that didn't resemble my grandmother, myself.

But just as the media were getting ready to rumble, some ominous sounds came out of the White House and everybody got quiet REAL fast.

Dollars to doughnuts there was some serious Bushian (or more likely, Sununuean) arm-twisting happening.

[hawthorne]

Anything to overturn Cecil's judgement that the evidence is "laughably thin"? (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_311.html) Uke?

Surely everyone knows that the press is against them (whatever side you're on). Otherwise, how could we fail?

[Ukulele Ike]

You'll note that Cece calls for "lab tests and televised hearings."

I can only concur. Humbly.

[IzzyR]

Actually the Cecil column on Bush is outdated. Subsequently, additional evidence did come forth, in the form of the memoirs of a deceased state dept official, who had written that they took a room together during a certain diplomatic negotiation. But the person who wrote it was no longer alive at the time that the account was published.

[dougie_monty]

It doesn't matter who revealed the affair. It doesn't matter whether it was Larry Flynt, Matt Drudge or Mighty Mouse. After it was revealed, Livingstone admitted it, realized that he would be a hypocrite to accept the Speaker position after his criticism of Clinton, and resigned from the Senate.
Y'know, that's even better! I guess I'd have to give Livingstone his due here, in that, unlike some other politicos, Livingstone was decent enough to admit what he had done. (Compare Lt. Col. Oliver North, who blamed the Iran-Contra mess on his political adversaries, instead of admitting he was a secretive, power-hungry demagogue who hid behind a cloak of blamelessness.)
Actually, I maintain that the general credibility of a source is critical. For example, if a celebrity tells us that an asteroid is likely to hit the earth in the next ten years, who would be more credible--Steven Hawking or Dennis Rodman? If an economic downturn is predicted in the next X number of months, whom are we more likely to believe--Alan Greenspan or Jerry Seinfeld? (Although it's vice versa when we are talking about basketball or stand-up comedy. I might even consider Larry Flynt an unimpeachable source--in the matters of marketing, pornography, and magazine publishing.)