Please help me get to sleep [Archive] - Straight Dope Message Board

SanibelMan

09-02-1999, 09:30 PM

I have suffered for 10+ years with sleep. In elementary school, I'd go to bed at 8 or so, but stay awake (in th edark, waiting to go to sleep) for hours at a time. Now as a sophomore, I find myself wide awake at 11:30 or 12:00 and comatose at 7AM. During the summer, I stay up 'till 2 or 3, and sleep in 'till at least noon. I'm really suffering with 6 hours a night, 5 nights a week, and it's hurting my grades. Tonight, I'm trying my mom's recipie for sleep - milk and cookies. I'm starting to feel drowsy, but I have a little more homework to do. Please, whatever you do to fall asleep, tell me! I'm desperate (obviously)
Forever your SanibelMan

Shalmaneser

09-02-1999, 09:44 PM

Try melatonin. Two or three pills. Completely harmless, and helps make you drowsy.

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Christ, what an imagination I've got...

Louie

09-02-1999, 09:53 PM

Masterbating works as well, although I don't know if you're into that.

According to Pliny

09-02-1999, 09:58 PM

Melatoin washed down with milk and cookies followed by rigorous masterbation.

According to Pliny

09-02-1999, 09:58 PM

Oops! Someone beat me to it.

SanibelMan

09-02-1999, 09:58 PM

Well, melatonin doesn't help me much, because I'm basically at an age where I'm producing as much melatonin as anyone, and I've tried it and it doesn't really help me much. As for that other thing, I know it's supposed to get you right to sleep, but if I do that, 2/3 of the time, it keeps me up. Really.
Maybe this will be an advantage later...?
**NOTE TO MY PARENTS: What the hell are you doing here?

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Yes, I seem to be having trouble controlling THE VOLUME OF MY VOICE!
--Austin Powers

SanibelMan

09-02-1999, 10:03 PM

Papabear, that wasn't a pun, was it?

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Yes, I seem to be having trouble controlling THE VOLUME OF MY VOICE!
--Austin Powers

Therealbubba

09-02-1999, 10:12 PM

Sanibelman, your beef should be with your school district. Research shows ( you have to find it yourself ) that your sleep cycles are appropriate for your age. Up late, rise late is correct for teenagers.

As for choking the chicken, that's also normal for your age ( mine too ).

Therealbubba

SanibelMan

09-02-1999, 10:23 PM

Do you mean, it's normal to flog the dolphin (Florida) or for that to keep you awake?

Bluepony

09-02-1999, 10:29 PM

OK, important safety tip. Take the milk and cookies off your belly before spanking the monkey.

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"...send lawyers, guns, and money..."

Warren Zevon

dawnbird

09-02-1999, 11:52 PM

I sometimes use valerian root to help me sleep. It smells really nasty but I use the gelatine capsules, so I don't have to find out what it tastes like.

Ken

09-03-1999, 12:03 AM

Melatoin washed down with milk and cookies followed by rigorous masterbation.

Skip the milk. If you're taking any sort of medication, milk will act as a buffer and slow absorption. This is why you should always give milk to a child (or anyone for that matter) who has swallowed house hold cleansers.

mangeorge

09-03-1999, 12:03 AM

It's your natural (can't remember the word) rhythm, my friend. I've been that way all my life (54 yrs). I know only three solutions;
1: Go to night school
2: Get a night job
3: Suffer
Our shared problem can be blamed on the freakin' farmers. :)
Peace,
mangeorge

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Work like you don't need the money.....
Love like you've never been hurt.....
Dance like nobody's watching! ....(Paraphrased)

According to Pliny

09-03-1999, 12:10 AM

I have to get up at 5:30am tomorrow. Stupid farmers!

elbow

09-03-1999, 12:37 AM

I agree with acknowledging the obvious. I am one of those people who tried desperately to live my life according to the world's generally accepted timetable, but it's folly. And I suffered terribly through university. I now have a night job and I might be out of sync with the rest of the world but I am happy and healthy and cheerful and alert and well rested. I finally gave up the battle when I realised that it didn't matter how much sleep I had, I just wasn't as sharp in the early morning. And no matter how tired or sleep deprived I was, once the sun went down, I was on my game, alert and energetic. Remember sleep deprivation is actually a very effective form of torture.

moriah

09-03-1999, 03:42 AM

<body>
Well, this piece of advice is too late for you this year, but... Don't
stay up late in the summer!   If you get up at the same time
each day all year round, you will eventually adjust to it, although, you
may not like it.

Getting to sleep:
Don't go to bed too early.  If you're getting up at 7 am, then go
to bed at 10 pm, not 8 pm.
About an hour before beddy-byes, start preparing yourself with the same
ritual every night.  This includes:
lower the lights
shut off the TV
turn music down, make it mellow
relax, do slow stretches
put on your jammies

Don't nap during the day (at least not until you're sleeping at night at
the right times first)
Have some reading ready that you can do in bed.  This will keep you
from trying too hard to sleep, which only brings anxiety. 
Make the reading something that you're interested in, but no problem for
you to put down when you're drowsy.  (In other words, don't read an
exciting I must finish this novel tonight! book.)  Magazines
with their short articles and popular science books work for me.
Eating soon before bedtime is a bad idea (if you do eat, it should be 1
1/2 to 2 hours before bed time).  Bed time eating can lead to indigestion
and reflux (heartburn).   The rise in blood sugars can actually
stimulate you.
Try to resolve this without restort to medications.  If you do need
something to get you over a hump (not for long term use), the melatonin
or an antihistamine (like benadryl) will help a bit.
Getting up:
You may need to be awakened gently.  An alarm clock with a snooze
button can bring you out of a deep sleep and give you time to adjust to
a lighter sleep.
Usually, you'll have to run to the bathroom between snoozes -- drink lots
of water right away as soon as you can.  The dehydration of a night's
sleep makes you feel like going back to sleep.
Buy timer switches that will have your radio and lights go on 15 minutes
into your snooze-buttoning -- again, that will keep you at a lighter sleep,
and easier to finally get out of bed.
But don't let the snooze lull you into hitting it for an hour.  After
three hits (27 - 30) minutes you should get up.  So...
Have a second, loud, non-snooze alarm across the room go off 30 minutes
after the first alarm.  You must get up with that clock.

Hope this helps.

Peace.
</body>

aseymayo

09-03-1999, 04:12 AM

Lucky I'm up to answer this.

If you can't avoid having to get up in the morning, try developing different strategies for going to sleep. I find that a single solution seldom works every time - I have a variety of techniques, if one doesn't work, I can try another.

Some suggestions:
Read a boring book - something long-winded or technical does it for me. It is not recommended you use textbooks to put yourself to sleep, especially if you're in school.

Have a VCR? Try an old movie with the sound fairly low - avoid movies with sudden screams or train whistles.

Books on tape can be very soothing - again, this works even better if you have a boring book.

Count your breaths - close your eyes and focus on your breathing. This is good for distracting your conscious brain and letting the unconscious sneak up and take over.

If all else fails - antihistamines. They make you drowsy enough to drop off to sleep, with no side effects - at least none that have been reported.

funneefarmer

09-03-1999, 04:58 AM

OK, it's my fault, get over it.
Stop drinking soda with caffeine about 5 hours before going to sleep.
I've always got away with 5.5-6 hours of sleep. Went to bed last night at 9:30 (halftime SU-Toledo, GO ORANGE) and got up this morn. at 2:45.
Wind down before going to sleep. I know it's tough to find a half hour or so some nights before bedtime but it works. Reading, listening to music, etc, getting into a routine is essential.(I liked the suggestion about getting up the same times year round). Right before bed I put a couple of tapes in the player so that the first hour soft music is playing (This week it's Sarah McLachlan's "Solace" & "Fumbling...". I've found Classical and Waltzes work well too, and bring about great dream sequences as well.

Mac

09-03-1999, 07:19 AM

In my job I was constantly changing shifts every six months. Days, swings, graves over and over a horrible cycle to try to get used to. I heartily agree with moriah go to bed at the same time and wake up at the same time seven days a week. If you are having trouble falling asleep don't reward yourself (don't watch TV, snack, stay off the computer) lay there and suffer. Teach your body to sleep when you want it too not the other way around.

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The american people are very generous people and will forgive almost any weakness, with the possible exception of stupidity.---Will Rogers

Bert

09-03-1999, 07:49 AM

This is the technique I use when I'm having trouble falling asleep. It takes a little practice, but I now find it very effective...

Go to bed, get as relaxed as possible, and find a comfortable position. Lie completely still and, beginning with the tips of your toes, try to completely relax your body. Imagine that the section you are concentrating on is very warm and heavy. Taking your time, slowly move up the legs as you feel each part becoming as relaxed as possible.

I can't remember making it past the knees before falling asleep.

Hope this helps!
Bert

Hazel

09-03-1999, 10:20 AM

Sanibelman, Mangeorge -- you are probably on the wrong planet. I, too. We need a planet with a longer day. I think a 30 hour day might be about right: stay up 20 hours; sleep 10.

It's my hope that when there are orbiting space habitats to which one can immigrate, they will offer a range of choices as to length of day.

09-03-1999, 10:58 AM

Go to a sleep disorder clinic, and see an actual, accredited doctor about this.

Most of those "herbal remedies" are so much snake oil, and some of them have harmful ingredients (remember, none of them are regulated, so you have no idea what's actually in them!).

You're unlucky enough to have an inconvenient sleep cycle; maybe when you graduate, you can become a highly paid night-shift worker!

Lumpy

09-03-1999, 02:54 PM

If you're drinking anything with caffeine in it, give it up. You wouldn't think one lousy can of Dew could screw you up that badly, but some people such as myself don't tolerate caffeine very well. No matter how exhausted I am, if I've drinking any pop with caffeine, I always get that "DOIIING! WIDE AWAKE NOW!" at 9:00 pm.

Also bear in mind that it's tempting to stay up late weekends when you can sleep in the morning. But then Monday rolls around and it's "Dawn of the Dead" time. It's very hard to adjust your sleep cycle backwards. I know it sucks to have to go to sleep at 8:00 pm on a Saturday night and get up at 5:00 am Sunday morning. But you'll be in much better shape Monday if you do.

Sassy

09-03-1999, 03:13 PM

My favorite ploy for nights when I can't sleep is to cast movies that someone will make from my favorite books. Somehow trying to think of the perfect actor sends me off, probably by keeping my mind off the fact that I am not sleeping... I've never finished a cast yet! I can do the same book over and over, because I usually don't recall who I chose in the AM.

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The reason gentlemen prefer blondes is that there are not enough redheads to go around.

Fretful Porpentine

09-03-1999, 04:08 PM

Or you could try playing the Alphabetical Drug Game:

"I went to a party and took some acid."

"I went to a party and took some acid and barbiturates."

"I went to a party and took some acid, barbiturates, and cough syrup."

Etc., etc.

I don't know WHY this works, but I'm always asleep before I reach the letter J.

Strainger

09-03-1999, 04:41 PM

Before anyone else beats me to this:
SanibelMan, if all else fails, you can try reading my long-winded post in the "What to do with $12,000" thread. :D

09-03-1999, 06:56 PM

Look, I used to havr the same problem. Then I added a 20-minute-a-day exercise routine to my life. IT HELPS! A sedentary lifestyle can wreck your chances of a good night's sleep. But a brisk 20-min. walk does wonders for me!

Give it a try.

What the hell, it can't hurt you & it's free!

09-03-1999, 11:32 PM

Sanibel - you,like most teens, probably have an internal clock that is programmed for a 26-30 hour day. Your body is probably NOT tired at 10 PM, and it sure isn't ready to get up at 6, when you only got to sleep at 1 or 2. As people get older, their internal clocks change, so that the intrisic cycle is about 20-22 hours, which is why grandparents fall asleep at 8, and wake up at 5 and oh so cheerfullly tell you about the wonderful sunrise you missed...

Many of the above suggestions were very good ones - keeping to the same schedule as much as possible is the best way to train your wake-up hormones to peak just as you should be waking. But it's darned hard to stick too! Good luck!

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Sue from El Paso
members.aol.com/majormd/index.html (http://members.aol.com/majormd/index.html)

JillGat

09-03-1999, 11:56 PM

I've never been able to get to sleep before midnight, and it's gotten no easier as I've gotten older. I seem to need less sleep than I did as a teenager, though. Still badly need a nap around 2pm, but I'm always wide awake in the evening until 12 no matter how little sleep I got the night before. I exercise plenty, and it makes no difference. I've tried lots of tricks, but nothing works... it's just my internal clock. I still think it's sadistic to make teenagers get to school so early in the morning.

BoBettie

09-04-1999, 12:00 AM

Two words of advice:
See a doctor- I was dozing off at all sorts of weird times of the day..having trouble sleeping and waking up really tired. Turned out I was never hitting "REM" sleep, so it was like being up all the time. I take medication now and I sleep great.

Get a night job. I did it for two years. LOVED IT! The pay is great, your boss is never there, and other 3rd shifters are more fun. Plus, when the first shift rolls in all bleary eyed, you get to go home and snooze during the day, which may be your natural cycle...

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An optimist sees an opportunity in every calamity; A pessimist sees a calamity in every opportunity.

Damien

09-04-1999, 12:11 AM

There was a recent study talked about on www.bbc.co.uk (http://www.bbc.co.uk)
It suggests that wearing warmsocks and gloves will increase the rate at which you fall asleep because Melatonin will be able to get about the body easier because of the dialation of the blood vessels in your extremeties and that poor blood ciculation can cause you to not be able to sleep.

-Damien

Louie

09-04-1999, 12:13 AM

I forgot to say why masterbation works...

After you masterbate, your pituitary gland releases melatonin, which in turn, makes you sleepy, and then you sleep.

Another thing that works for me is to drink a lot a water (around 5 cups). The water will get you drowsy as well, and in turn, helps you sleep.

Give us an update on how you're doing, okay?

Jorge

09-04-1999, 12:38 AM

My 2 cents:

1. Avoid much carbos at dinner.

2. Take a walk afterwards.

3. A strong cup of Chamomile and Pau d'arco tea, with milk, before bed. (Maybe with Baileys.

4. Read book. Draw mind away from outside. No TV.

Nickrz

09-04-1999, 06:50 AM

If you're going to espouse jerking off, at least spell it correctly.
It's masturbate, dammit.

dawnbird

09-04-1999, 05:44 PM

I strongly suggest you do not try antihistamines if you have any addictive tendancies or if insomnia is a chronic problem.

The OTC (over the counter) sleeping pills I had such a problem with were antihistamines. I found out it's easy to get hooked on the "drunk" feeling. It hits fast and hard (20 minutes after you take them you are snoockered) but they take longer and longer to put you under the more you take them. Your body will develop a resistance to the sleep, so you just stay in the quasi-drunk state. Eventually, if you keep taking them you won't even get that drunk feeling anymore.

I actually felt even more tired in the morning when I woke up. I often stayed groggy until 8:00 or 9:00am. (Wakeup call was at 0400, that's four+ hours!)

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possibly the world's only naive cynic

SanibelMan

09-04-1999, 06:20 PM

Dawnbird, you're right, and I haven't tried antihistamines to get to sleep. I have taken Benadryl before, for allergies, and it leaves me feeling like jello for days. No good for school.
Nickrz, you're right too, but it's damnit, not dammit, damnit!
I'm afraid that I can't take night school - I'm not in college, I'm in high school. I'm a sophomore in high school. I've tried Valerian Root, but it tasted awful, and I have little willpower. As I said earlier, the melatonin doesn't help me. But the milk and cookies did, a little bit - I was asleep by midnight and was refreshed in the morning, on a Friday, so that's a good sign. But I got 12 hours of sleep last night, so I'll resume testing on Tuesday. I'll let you know how I'm doing before then. I'm going to a hypnotist at the Playhouse now; maybe that'll help. :D

SanibelMan

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Yes, I seem to be having trouble controlling THE VOLUME OF MY VOICE!
--Austin Powers

moriah

09-04-1999, 10:01 PM

Let me take a moment to correct some people:

Stop telling him to eat/drink right before bed time! It may not happen right now, but eventually it will lead to reflux. It is just a bad idea. So stop it.

For those of you telling him to go see a sleep specialist -- you're jumping the gun. It has not been established that this is a chronic disorder that can't be remedied through simple behavior modification. If the suggestions he is receiving here don't work, then he should see a specialist.

Antihistimines and other drugs: Antihistimines are not generally known to be physically addictive. They do not create a groggy effect for more than four to eight hours (unless you take large doses or time-released doses). The liver has a habit of disposing of foreign chemicals from the body in a somewhat timely manner. If you felt groggy a few days after an antihistimine, blame your poor sleeping habits, not the drug.

You should not be seeking a chemical solution to sleep problems until you've exhausted behavior modification. And when you do use a drug for sleeping -- it should only be a short term help. If it doesn't help in the short term, see a sleep specialist. Herbal remedies are based on anecdotal evidence and they may or may not have any real effect.

Peace.

Zyada

09-05-1999, 11:46 AM

I've had problems all my life too. Here's what I've picked up:

Antihistamines & alcohol make you sleep too deeply, skipping the all-important REM stage for stage 4 sleep. You'll get into a viscious cycle where you take a pill to get to sleep, then need one the next night, because you really didn't get sleep the previous night. If you absolutely must take sleeping pills, take them 4 hours before bedtime. (I only take them if I've had several days of insomnia already) Most of the medicine will be gone, but you'll be really sleepy by then.

Don't try to get to sleep for more that 15 or 30 minutes. After that time, you need to get up and do something. This needs to be something you don't like to do - cleaning, homework, etc. Before you go to bed, tell yourself exactly what you will have to do if you don't get to sleep, and do that if you do get up.

Sleep occurs in cycles of 3-5 hours, usually 4 hours. If you are woken up in the middle of a cycle, you'll be sleepier. If I wake up less than an hour before my alarm going off, I will get up & start the day. If I wake up and I'm really wide awake, I'll do this even if it's two hours early.

moriah

09-05-1999, 06:54 PM

The sleep - exercise cycle is interdependent. You're not going to sleep well (deeply and regularly) if you do not exercise. Your exercise and/or athletic performance will suffer if you don't sleep well. Sleep is very important for the recovery and rebuilding of muscle tissue.

Peace.

BigRoryG

09-06-1999, 12:04 AM

I'm gonna say that i have to agree with the exercise approach. I used to have the very same problem before i got into high school. As soon as i hit my freshman year, i started playing football and being active. All of a sudden, i never had a problem getting to sleep again. I occasionally do now, but only when I haven't exercised. Keep an active lifestyle, not only willl it help you to sleep but has innumerable other beneficial aspects to it.

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If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.

c-man

09-07-1999, 02:05 PM

I have to disagree with Moriah's big post (she sounds like a morning person). I 've always had the same problem (I'm 30). I'm better, but still not cured. Here's what I've found:

1. Yup - drop caffeine
2. Yup - do some rigorous physical activity during the day (the more energy I burn in the day, the easier I go to sleep)
3. Try to lay still with eyes closed. I sometimes do a mental exercise: I think of one of my favorite CD's and I start singing the songs in my head (don't pick Metallica - try Pink Floyd)
4. Don't read, watch TV or any of that crap- I find that all those things only keep my mind active.

Other notes:
Eating just before sleep has never affected me. Wearing pajamas keeps me awake (I have to sleep in the nude). Make your room as dark as physically possible. I recommend avoiding medication: just a short term solution and you may develop dependancy.

To wake up on time, I have two alarm clocks both set fast: one faster than the other and with alarms set at different times - one radio one buzzer. Basically - the way this works is the alarms go off at pretty close to the same time (about 5 minutes apart). Since I know both clocks are showing the incorrect time and I can't tell which is most correct, I get confused and force myself to realize I don't have much more time to sleep. I press snooze a couple of times on both clocks and eventually awaken (just about on time).

The only thing worse than having this problems is seeing some happy morning person who says, "You just need to train your body. Just go to sleep early and wake up early for a few months. That's all it takes."

THAT'S BULLSHIT!!!

okay... settling down now...

c-man

09-09-1999, 02:22 PM

Synchronicity!

There's a very good article on sleep problems in the current issue of More magazine (Sept/Oct). Seems very sensible and has some good tips, as well as the real low-down on "herbal sleep aids."

JawaTrader

09-09-1999, 04:53 PM

I have this problem all the time, except I'm not a teenager, I'm only 13. I've noticed it's complete and utter hell to wake up for school the way my sleep schedule works.

Anyway, I always play Weird Al/The Radio in the background, and I'm wondering if this is a good idea. Also, I leave my useless 486 on at night, thus creating light.. is this also a no-no?

Where can I get these timers to activate the radio and such?

Finally, is it bad for me to take these antihistamines or not? Everyone keeps contradicting each other.

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-Th' JawaTrader

moriah

09-09-1999, 07:58 PM

09-10-1999, 08:12 AM

Jawa--Of course you're a teenager at 13! I remember how excited I was to turn 13, because I was finally a teenager! Of course, that was when we still counted on an abacus . . .

OfficeGirl

09-10-1999, 08:46 AM

try counting backwards at odd increments. for some reason i always start with the # 897 and work down by 3's first.

usually by the time i'm into the 500's i'm so bored with it i just drift off.

or a good self-hypnosis cassette tape always works wonders. it may explain why i always wake up wearing nothing, but....

it sure works!

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ALLUSIONS- my page (http://www.homestead.com/allusions/allusions.html)

"Argue for your limitations; sure enough, they're yours."

Shirley Ujest

09-10-1999, 10:07 AM

Take a hot bath and read a book. It always works for me. Cut back on the sweets and caffiene.

If you eat before bed time now, it will become a habit and the pounds will attach themselves to you in the oddest places because eventually your metabolism dies on you without any warning or fan fare. You just wake up one day with an extra ten pounds around your gut.

Don't worry, eventually you will be like the rest of us, falling asleep at 10p and grumpy that the alarm clock goes off at 7am and you haven't had enough sleep.

Therealbubba

09-10-1999, 10:51 AM

This reminds me of a joke I heard.

Did you hear the one about the dyslexic atheist with insomnia?

He'd lie awake all night wondering if there really was a dog.

Therealbubba

09-11-1999, 04:57 PM

c-man: You've reported what has worked for you, I've reported what has worked for me. In addition, I've also reported what most doctors and sleep experts agree on: Don't eat right before sleeping. I'm glad you don't get reflux from eating right before sleep. Many people who do have reflux at night or in the morning and report it to a doctor are asked, "Do you eat right before sleeping?" They answer, "Yes." The doctor says, "Stop it." And when they do, the reflux goes away. That's why the expert opinion is Don't eat right before bedtime. Sorry if you disagree with this opinion, but don't be telling people that just because you don't get reflux, that they should eat before bedtime. It's just plain bad advice. (Additionally, eating before bedtime, when body activity is low, is a good way to put on extra weight.)
- Moriah

This is akin to saying that since 10% of people with high blood pressure are sensitive to salt, everyone should cut down on their salt intake. There is so much well-meaning "helpful advice" out there that most people have to pick & choose what makes sense for them.

The kind of sleep problem Sanibelman was describing is a ubiquitous teen/young adult problem. Very few people in this age range are plagued with reflux; most do not have any kind of weight problem. Eating 2 slices of leftover pizza and a coke may not be a great idea, but a glass of milk and a couple of cookies does help promote sleep.

If reflux and/or weight are a problem, I agree the snack should be avoided, but otherwise it's more important to avoid things like caffeine, strenuous exercise, showers, or intense mental concentration for various amounts of time before trying to get to sleep. Some people do do these things & still have no problem falling asleep; there is no reason for them to stop doing these things just because they may cause sleep problems for other people.

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Sue from El Paso
members.aol.com/majormd/index.html (http://members.aol.com/majormd/index.html)

TVeblen

09-11-1999, 06:15 PM

Forget the OTC and herbal crap, and the sexual advice. Suffering 10 yrs w/ this is no joke. Some of it may be just sleep patterns (owl vs. lark) but it sounds like more. What keeps you awake? Worrying? Just thinking? Whatever...do some reading on this. Lots of good advice, e.g. avoid caffeine, set a regular time for bed, don't watch TV in bed, etc. And get some real help on it. Hey, ask your school counselors. And be *very* wary of the drug "solutions". Whatever the problem and your particular solution may be, the answer's out there--and logical place to start is finding out WHY your aren't sleeping. You can't find *your* solution until you identify the factors in your problem. Best of luck!

moriah

09-11-1999, 10:48 PM

<body>
majormd posted:
<blockquote>This is akin to saying that since 10% of people with high blood
pressure are sensitive to salt, everyone should cut down on their salt
intake. There is so much well-meaning "helpful advice" out there that most
people have to pick & choose what makes sense for them.</blockquote>

And this is akin to saying <font color="#660000">"Some people
who smoke live to a ripe old age, so if I tell someone who wants to loose
weight to take up smoking, you shouldn't be going around carping on the
lung cancer thing."</font>

So, excuse me if I play the part of the Surgeon General to your Tobacco
Megacorporation.

 

 
<center><table BORDER=3 CELLPADDING=5 COLS=1 WIDTH="55%" BGCOLOR="#CCFFFF" >
<tr>
<td><font size=+1>Warning: Eating right before bed time contributes
to the development of night time and morning reflux and to obesity.</font></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<font size=+1></font>

 

09-11-1999, 11:17 PM

And this is akin to saying "Some people who smoke live to a ripe old age, so if I tell someone who wants to loose
weight to take up smoking, you shouldn't be going around carping on the
lung cancer thing."

So, excuse me if I play the part of the Surgeon General to your Tobacco
Megacorporation.
- Moriah

There are evils out there far worse than bedtime milk & cookies.

Smoking is one of them. There is a vast difference in:
addictiveness
severity of consequences
knowledge of damage being done (how many people's first knowledge of smoking-related damage is sudden death from a heart attack, or a diagnosis of inoperable lung cancer). Got heartburn, chronic cough, or hoarseness? Stop the bedtime snack.

Another is a person with a myopic, self-centered view of the world who makes alarmist exaggerated posts.

------------------
Sue from El Paso
members.aol.com/majormd/index.html (http://members.aol.com/majormd/index.html)

moriah

09-12-1999, 02:42 PM

What's truly myopic is suggesting a remedy for sleeplessness which not only has absolutely no proven scientific basis that it actually works, but is definitely linked to reflux (admittedly, not in all people), and in weight gain.

"Here, try this unproven remedy which has some possible and some definite side effects."

Just idiotic.

SanibelMan

09-12-1999, 07:29 PM

Guys, guys, guys! This is bad hoodoo, as Jimmy James would say. If you really want to fight, take it to the Pit. I'd like this to stay in General Questions, where it can help people. Right, Nickrz?

(Oh, BTW, I don't get heartburn after eating the milk and cookies, but I don't think they would because I eat them about an hour before I lay down...)

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"I like Florida; everything is in the eighties. The temperatures, the ages, and the IQs."
-- George Carlin

09-12-1999, 10:34 PM

San - I truly hope our yelling hasn't been keeping you awake :).

My argument with Moriah is that reflux as a chronic condition affects a minority of people. It has numerous causes including genetic predisposition, caffeine, alcohol, smoking, obesity, spicy foods, and late night eating. Focusing this much attention on one of these factors, and suggesting that late night eating, by itself, is certain to lead to reflux is wrong. OTOH, my responses were probably overly argumentative because a personal crusade of mine is trying to put all the well-meaning advice people hear from friends, the media, BBs such as this into some kind of perspective.

Ask a doctor (and I am one) does late night eating contribute to reflux, and you will most likely get a yes, or it can, response.

Ask a doc to pick the 3 worst offenders for reflux, and smoking, alcohol, and either caffeine or obesity are likely to be the winners.

For a kid still in in school trying to keep his body on what seems an unnatural schedule, a modest snack is most likely harmless. I do agree with everything else she said about establishing a bedtime routine, avoiding pharmaeutical, or even herbal solutions, and that a sleep clinic evaluation is probably not warranted at this point.

Finally, I'll crib her sign-off:

Peace
(and apologies if I've guessed Moriah's gender wrong)

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Sue from El Paso
members.aol.com/majormd/index.html (http://members.aol.com/majormd/index.html)

OpalCat

09-12-1999, 11:52 PM

You might want to visit the Nocturnal Society website...
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/5423/index.html

I've always been a night person, no matter what kinds of day patterns I force myself into and no matter for how long. When I don't have pressing daytime business for a length of time (like a week) I go back to the night schedule. Finally I just gave in. Now if I have to be up in the morning, I stay up all night for it.

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>^,,^<
"Cluemobile? You've got a pickup..."
OpalCat's site: http://opalcat.com
The Teeming Millions Homepage: fathom.org/teemingmillions (http://fathom.org/teemingmillions)