I'm Kinda Liking the Queen Lately. Can I be saved?

[Leaffan]

So, Queen Elizabeth the II has been touring Canada the last few days, and you know what? I like her. She's been the Queen of England since before my (Scottish) parents were married!

No, she's a class act all the way and I think I'm warming up to her. I used to oppose the monarchy in Canada, before I got edumacated and realized what a disastrous calamity it would be to try to revise the constitution at this point.

No. She's a grand lady and I truly respect her service to the Commonwealth.

I want to tell her that I love her a lot, but I gotta get a belly full of wine. (Paul McCartney)

[RickJay]

I don't like the monarchy as an institution and if we had a vote on it tomorrow I'd vote for it to be abolished, but the fact is that the Queen does her job damned well.

[2ply]

She was a hot piece of ass back in the day, let me tell you.

[Hypnagogic Jerk]

I don't like the monarchy as an institution and if we had a vote on it tomorrow I'd vote for it to be abolished, but the fact is that the Queen does her job damned well.
Yeah, I agree. She's a great queen, and apparently a charming lady as well. But as an institution, the monarchy is hopelessly out of date.

[Frank]

Under her constitutional role in Canada, she is properly titled "Queen of Canada", a title the Canadian monarch has held since 1931, albeit essentially only empowered since 1982, when it was recognized that as Queen of Canada she could only be advised on Canadian matters by her Canadian ministers.

Monarchy of Canada. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy_of_Canada)

But, yeah, she's a class act.

We'll see what you think when Charles takes over and starts criticizing Canadian architecture. :p

[RickJay]

We'll see what you think when Charles takes over and starts criticizing Canadian architecture. :p
Toronto could use him. Show me a North American metropolis with worse architecture. You can't.

[Gorsnak]

We'll see what you think when Charles takes over and starts criticizing Canadian architecture. :p

If he gets too uppity there's always the first of that name to serve as a precedent.

[panache45]

I always kinda think of her as "my" queen.

I was 7 in June of 1953, and I watched her coronation on our black-and-white Zenith tv with a round screen. My mother told me this is something I'd always remember, and she was right. In 2003 I finally visited London, and saw the gold coach that the queen rode in for her coronation. It is never used for any other purpose. How cool is that, to have a gold coach that you use only once.

[AK84]

The last "Queen of England" died in 1714, HM is the Queen of the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, Canada etc and was also previously Queen of Pakistan and South Africa.

[Poysyn]

I am hoping to meet her - I have to work Public Affairs for a few venues she is at, she may get bored of seeing me!

[blindboyard]

AK84 is wrong, RSA became an R in 1948, so HRH Brenda was never Queen of South Africa.

[Gyrate]

The Queen is definitely a great lady, a shrewd governor and the epitome of class. She also has very good skin, according to the wife who has met her.

[Savannah]

I also love the queen. This is a lady who is probably far from a perfect woman, but she has tirelessly given her entire life to doing her duty, and done so smiling all the while.

[Cat Whisperer]

<snip>

We'll see what you think when Charles takes over and starts criticizing Canadian architecture. :p
If he started putting the fear of God in Canadian architects, that would be nothing but good.

I've known some people who were bitterly opposed having the Queen being titular head of Canada, but I don't have a particular problem with it. Maybe if she started taking all our money to pay for her solid gold toilets or something I'd have a problem with that. If I understand things correctly, the Queen is happy to leave things alone with Canada, and we're happy to leave things alone with having a monarchy, and everything is business as usual.

[Attack from the 3rd dimension]

I had a bit of difficulty swearing allegiance to the Queen when I became a Canadian, but I figured it would be tougher once Charles came on board. As time has gone by I've become more pro-Queen, partly because of the sheer stability of the Monarchy. I keep wondering - are Monarchies, even constitutional ones, more stable than Republics?

If so, it's probably because you'd have to look the Queen in the eye when she asked about your budding dictatorship, and she might purse her lips at you.

[Indyellen]

"She's a right good Sheila and not at all stuck up."

[alphaboi867]

AK84 is wrong, RSA became an R in 1948, so HRH Brenda was never Queen of South Africa.

Nope (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy_of_South_Africa), South Africa didn't become a republic until 1961. Ireland declared itself a republic in 1948 (effective April 1949).

[Malacandra]

AK84 is wrong, RSA became an R in 1948, so HRH Brenda was never Queen of South Africa.

And Brenda hasn't been an HRH since the microsecond after her Dad croaked.

[UncleRojelio]

Why is she called Brenda?

And you guys are going to have to start spelling things out in full. I'm getting confused.

[hajario]

I hate monarchies and just about everything about them but Elizabeth II, I must grudgingly admit, is a very impressive person.

[jayjay]

HRH = Her Royal Highness, the styling of a princess.

What Malacandra is talking about is that Elizabeth stopped being an HRH when she was crowned, and instead became Her Majesty (HM).

[In Winnipeg]

We're going to see her tomorrow. She's in town to do a few things and give a speech.

I saw her once before, in the summer of '71 during British Columbia's 100th Anniversary as a province. The Royal Yacht Brittania was in New Westminster at the docks and we went (my mother had seen her in a motorcade earlier that day), but I didn't get to see her until a couple of days later when she was at Fort Langley.

"Happy and glorious"? For sure.

[Polycarp]

AK84 is wrong, RSA became an R in 1948, so HRH Brenda was never Queen of South Africa.

Nope. While the apartheid party took over in 1948, it remained a dominion until 1960, with George VI and then Elizabeth as official head of state.

[Polycarp]

And Brenda hasn't been an HRH since the microsecond after her Dad croaked.

She's been out of her tree since she ascended the throne, though! ;)

(She's the only monarch known to have become queen or king while up in a tree; she and Philip were visiting East Africa, and she was sleeping in a treetop lodge in a baobab the night her father died.)

[Celyn]

Why is she called Brenda?
She is "Brenda" because it's a joke name used by the magazine "Private Eye".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_and_organisations_frequently_parodied_by_Private_Eye

[Muffin]

Toronto could use him. Show me a North American metropolis with worse architecture. You can't.Detroit, or what is left of it, if it could be called a metropolis as opposed to a ruins.

[tetranz]

I suspect that the situation in Canada is similar to that of New Zealand. Yes, we'll probably become a republic one day but ... there are more important things to worry about right now. In practice, nothing much would change. The governor general would probably be renamed to president with much the same ceremonial role as now and then there would be the cost of renaming the military and other things with "royal" in the name.

[Bam Boo Gut]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/28/Private_Eye_Cover.jpg Here's a picture of the queen on the cover of Private Eye, she looks a lot like Brenda and I wonder if, by chance, they are related.

[In Winnipeg]

I saw her today, and it was great.

I was at The Forks (that place in Winnipeg where the Red and Assiniboine Rivers meet), located just down the path from where she unveiled a cornerstone for the new Human Rights Museum. We were at an area where she would have to turn to go to the stage where she was to be entertained by a few of our local entertainers.

I was probably no more than twenty feet away from her; she looked resplendent in a pink hat and a yellow dress. After she passed by, one of the security detail told us that she would be coming back if we wanted to wait an hour. During that time, they pulled in the motorcade vehicles, because she was going from The Forks right back to the Airport -- she is due back in Toronto tonight at approximately 9PM Toronto time. She gave a speech, watched a couple of acts, and then it started to thunder and then to rain, which was the signal apparently to cut her visit a little short (although it seemed as though everything was running behind schedule), and she and the other VIP's (including the PM and his wife) got into the motorcade and drove away. She got into her car on my side, no farther than twelve feet from where I was.

All in all, it was a wonderful experience.

[Mona Lisa Simpson]

I have trouble with the concept of monarchy ([Holy Grail]
Woman: Well I didn't vote for you.
King Arthur: You don't vote for kings.
<snip>
Dennis: Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony. [/Holy Grail])

But HM Elizabeth II is a very classy shrewd woman who has been head of state for 52 years, and yeah, I kind of have a soft spot for her.

Apres elle, le deluge?

[The Second Stone]

Well, She and Phillip are a package deal. With their brood. So while Brenda does seem to have her shit together, the rest of them seem right looney. (Loons are on the Canuck dollar, right?)

[Little Nemo]

If you're going to have a monarch, she seems to be doing a good job at it.

My favorite story about the Queen and Canada was when a Montreal radio station obtained her phone number and tried to prank her. They called her up pretending to be a Canadian politician discussing some upcoming election. But the Queen turned out to be familiar with the issues and was able to discuss them knowlegably - and in fluent French. After a few minutes, the radio guy excused himself and ended the call.

The next day, he admitted on the air, "Well, somebody looked ended up looking like an idiot yesterday and it wasn't the Queen."

[alice_in_wonderland]

I met her at a garden party quite a few years ago and she really is lovely. Gracious and pleasant, she totally overlooked at least one obnoxious social gaff made by one of the people in attendance (it was a very small function and this woman made a spectacle of herself).

I have no trouble with the monarchy at all and am honoured to have met her.

[Sunspace]

You met the Queen? :: envious :: The closest I ever get to her is the money in my pocket.

Though I did go to London and stand in front of Buckingham Palace like a million other tourists...

I'm a bit worried about what'll happen when she passes on. Is there a successor with her style and dedication? Maybe Canada should create its own monarchy or head of state when she passes on. Just don't call it a President--that's too confusing.

[detop]

<snip>I'm a bit worried about what'll happen when she passes on. Is there a successor with her style and dedication? Maybe Canada should create its own monarchy or head of state when she passes on. Just don't call it a President--that's too confusing.

So, you'd be OK with queen Celine de Dion or king Conrad von Black ?

[Annie]

So, you'd be OK with queen Celine de Dion or king Conrad von Black ?


Lord Douche-Hubris? Didn't Chretien make him surrender Canadian citizenship to get his Lordship papers? Also, no felons. We have some standards up here.
...but I didn't get to see her until a couple of days later when she was at Fort Langley.

"Happy and glorious"? For sure.

Hey, I was there too! Crashed my sister's Brownie troop and tagged along.

[alphaboi867]

...I'm a bit worried about what'll happen when she passes on. Is there a successor with her style and dedication? Maybe Canada should create its own monarchy or head of state when she passes on. Just don't call it a President--that's too confusing.

Oh come on; Her Majesty and the Francophones are practically the only things setting you people apart from Amercians (well that & universal healthcare). :p

[ElvisL1ves]

So the value of the monarchy as an institution depends primarily on the personal qualities of the individual at its head, is that it? Colo(u)r me confused.

[Guinastasia]

Charles will probably do fine. (Well, he might end up being George VII). People said the same thing when Victoria died, about HER son, Edward VII, and he turned out to be a pretty decent king. And back then, the monarchy had a lot more power than it does today.



(And her proper nickname I believe is "Lilibet", which is what she was called as a child)

[Declan]

Charles will probably do fine. (Well, he might end up being George VII). People said the same thing when Victoria died, about HER son, Edward VII, and he turned out to be a pretty decent king. And back then, the monarchy had a lot more power than it does today

Thats the whole thing with continuity and succession. I think that Charles is only going to be a care taker king with a short reign. Mind you , he said he would not abdicate, but really if he does'nt , I can see a return of the show spittn image.

Declan

[Little Nemo]

Thats the whole thing with continuity and succession. I think that Charles is only going to be a care taker king with a short reign. Mind you , he said he would not abdicate, but really if he does'nt , I can see a return of the show spittn image.I don't see any reason why he'd have a short reign. He's only 61 and in apparent good health. I think it's reasonable to assume he's got another fifteen or twenty years to live. And I see no reason why he'd abdicate - being King is the job he's been trained for all his life. Charles doesn't seem likely to be somebody who would force a major politcal crisis and be forced into abdication.

Nor do I see any reason why the British would want to rush into William's reign. He's only twenty-eight. Rush him into the throne and you might be stuck with him for fifty years. Maybe he'll turn out to be a complete dick. Give him another decade or so of training as the heir.

[alphaboi867]

I don't see any reason why he'd have a short reign. He's only 61 and in apparent good health. I think it's reasonable to assume he's got another fifteen or twenty years to live...

His problem is that based on her family history the Queen could reasonably live another 15 to 20 years.

[Little Nemo]

His problem is that based on her family history the Queen could reasonably live another 15 to 20 years.I don't see that as realistic. She's 84 years old, which already makes her the oldest monarch in British history.

Granted, her mother lived to the age of 101. But her father died at the age of 56.

[Leaffan]

I don't see that as realistic. She's 84 years old, which already makes her the oldest monarch in British history.

Granted, her mother lived to the age of 101. But her father died at the age of 56.

Yeah, except he was a heavy smoker, with lung cancer, who died of a coronary thrombosis.

[Gyrate]

And the Queen Mum lived to 101 despite being a virtual alcoholic, being a widow for half a century and having had multiple hip replacements. The Queen is in much better shape than her mother was at the same age.

The test will really be how she fares after Philip dies, but another decade is well within the realm of possibility.

[Nava]

So the value of the monarchy as an institution depends primarily on the personal qualities of the individual at its head, is that it? Colo(u)r me confused.

To a large extension, yes. A bad monarch devalues the monarchy and often leads to "troubles" (cf. Fernando VII; the 18th century Hapsburgs...) whereas a good one strengthens it (there are people who claim that Juan Carlos I organized the coup on Feb 23 1981 in order to be able to stop it; others who claim they don't think he's smart enough for that but his wife could be; in any case, it definitely strengthened the whole political system and even got politicians to start talking about "Spain" instead of "this country" again).

You don't think that a good President makes the political system stronger than a bad one? I don't think Nixon did a lot to make the American political system look good, or the American people trust its rulers.

[Muffin]

As Punch's Sellar and Yeatman would have said, a Good King, but a Bad Thing.

[Lo-Slung Denim]

I always kinda think of her as "my" queen.

I was 7 in June of 1953, and I watched her coronation on our black-and-white Zenith tv with a round screen. My mother told me this is something I'd always remember, and she was right. In 2003 I finally visited London, and saw the gold coach that the queen rode in for her coronation. It is never used for any other purpose. How cool is that, to have a gold coach that you use only once.

I think it's a shameful waste of taxpayers' money, but then, I despise the monarchy as an institution, and I don't have much time for any of the actual individuals either.

I suppose the Queen isn't as much of an obnoxious twat as some of the others. I'd be a very happy Brit if they were abolished tomorrow.

[Gyrate]

I think it's a shameful waste of taxpayers' money, but then, I despise the monarchy as an institution, and I don't have much time for any of the actual individuals.Let's not forget, however, that the Queen and the various Crown-related properties, assorted tourist tat, etc bring in a HUGE amount of tourist money to the UK (London mostly, admittedly). Take away the monarchy and the value of all that stuff drops dramatically.

[Lo-Slung Denim]

Let's not forget, however, that the Queen and the various Crown-related properties, assorted tourist tat, etc bring in a HUGE amount of tourist money to the UK (London mostly, admittedly). Take away the monarchy and the value of all that stuff drops dramatically.

I've never been taken with this argument, as I prefer to think that we could just get them taxidermied and put on display, and charge for that.

[jayjay]

I've never been taken with this argument, as I prefer to think that we could just get them taxidermied and put on display, and charge for that.

Might actually improve Charles's demeanor, and the benefits of a silent (and therefore gaffeless) Phillip are too many to list.

[Wile E]

Well, Bohemian Rhapsody is a bit overplayed but it's a classic. Somebody to Love is one of my favorites. No one can sing them like Freddie Mercury though.

[Celyn]

Let's not forget, however, that the Queen and the various Crown-related properties, assorted tourist tat, etc bring in a HUGE amount of tourist money to the UK (London mostly, admittedly). Take away the monarchy and the value of all that stuff drops dramatically.

Hmm, not sure about the actual economics of that. Not sure at all. And if they are just a tourist brand, then can we have a full and sensible look at whether they do deserve so much money?

Funnily enough, lots of people traipse along as tourists to visit Versailles or wherever without any mad thought of meeting some extant royal personage. Really, if I suddenly decided to visit Belgium, The Netherlands, Sweden, or lots of other places, I wouldn't be going there with the wish to find whatever monarch. I mean does the Italian tourist industry suffer because they don't have a Caesar any more? Do visitors go there and then go home all sad and disappointed?

And I suppose it must be a sad and terrible thing for the U.S.A. to have no visitors and no tourists because there is not a queen to look at. Yeah, I'm sure it suffers a lot from this lack. :D

[Muffin]

Let's not forget, however, that the Queen and the various Crown-related properties, assorted tourist tat, etc bring in a HUGE amount of tourist money to the UK (London mostly, admittedly). Take away the monarchy and the value of all that stuff drops dramatically.But the Queen of Canada brings in next to no tourist dollars to Canada.

[RickJay]

But the Queen of Canada brings in next to no tourist dollars to Canada.
But how much does she cost us? It's not really much of an issue here either way.

Yes, it costs money to have a Governor General. But Canada has to have a head of state; if it's not the Governor General, it'd be an elected President of something, and the same functions would have to be performed at, in all likelihood, at least the same cost.

[Sunspace]

I've never been taken with this argument, as I prefer to think that we could just get them taxidermied and put on display, and charge for that.You want to mount the Queen? :eek:

[Muffin]

But how much does she cost us? It's not really much of an issue here either way.

Yes, it costs money to have a Governor General. But Canada has to have a head of state; if it's not the Governor General, it'd be an elected President of something, and the same functions would have to be performed at, in all likelihood, at least the same cost.I guess the trick will be to elect a head of state, but ensure that anyone running for the job will not want to live in Canada -- sort of like that Ignatieff fellow, only he returned after all.

[Little Nemo]

And I suppose it must be a sad and terrible thing for the U.S.A. to have no visitors and no tourists because there is not a queen to look at. Yeah, I'm sure it suffers a lot from this lack.In terms of politics, Barack Obama is the American equivalent of Queen Elizabeth. In terms of tourism, it's Mickey Mouse.

[Gyrate]

In terms of politics, Barack Obama is the American equivalent of Queen Elizabeth. In terms of tourism, it's Mickey Mouse.And it's not like the commemorative "Cameron and Clegg" plates are flying off the shelves.

Oh dear God must not Google to see if these really exist must not Google must not Google...

[Lo-Slung Denim]

You want to mount the Queen? :eek:

Ewwwwww!



:D