What is "Audition Posting"? [Archive] - Straight Dope Message Board

CarnalK

07-05-2010, 01:36 PM

over in that other thread
There was a new poster early this morning, Thrustin, who disappeared with his thread, which was mainly posted to link to his druming on youtube. Not a bad sort, but we just don't allow it.

What do you mean "mainly posted to link to his drumming"? How many times did he do it?

I've got to say, seems like an incredibly wide definition of "spam". Didn't seem he was actively promoting sales or directing people to some personal website.

Attack from the 3rd dimension

07-05-2010, 01:39 PM

I've been waiting for the 'why was so-and-so banned?' thread.

Colibri

07-05-2010, 02:48 PM

What do you mean "mainly posted to link to his drumming"? How many times did he do it?

I've got to say, seems like an incredibly wide definition of "spam". Didn't seem he was actively promoting sales or directing people to some personal website.

Did you see the original thread? If not you seem to be doing a bit of speculation on what it consisted of.

Sam didn't say that the guy "mainly posted to link to his drumming"; he said that "his thread ... was mainly posted to link to his drumming." The OP consisted of little more than the link to youtube; the guy didn't post the link multiple times.

While we sometimes may allow this sort of thing by established posters (providing permission is requested beforehand), coming here mainly just to post a link to promote yourself (for whatever reason) isn't acceptable.

From the Registration Agreement:

This message board is intended as a medium for public discussion. Do not post spam, including but not limited to advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, solicitations, offers to trade or barter, charitable appeals, or other messages primarily intended to promote a cause, venture, organization, event (except Straight Dope-related events), website, or other entity or activity, whether or not money is involved.

Dallas Jones

07-05-2010, 03:15 PM

Did you see the original thread? If not you seem to be doing a bit of speculation on what it consisted of.

What sam meant by "mainly posted to link to his drumming" was that his OP consisted of little more than the link to youtube, not that he posted the link multiple times.

While we sometimes may allow this sort of thing by established posters (providing permission is requested beforehand), coming here mainly just to post a link to promote yourself (for whatever reason) isn't acceptable.

From the Registration Agreement:

Well I saw the original thread, and viewed the youtube video, which was a humorous song about joining a message board. Humor having been lost here a long time ago, I am not surprised by the banning. But it was out of line both from the standpoint of the rules and as a business decision. Some spammers are quite obvious, this non-spammer was not and should have been given a little more rope. There is no time clock ticking that requires an instantanous clearing of spammers, unless they are obviously linking to crap.

I really think that whomever made the ultimate decision on this had their head up their ass this time. To be so quick to reject new customers is quite amazing. This banning was wrong.

I wonder if the people who actually pay the bills here even pay attention to how the board is run. Frequent money making ideas proposed by Ed should include the possibility of encouraging new customers.

I know it's a crazy concept for the SDMB.

Lynn Bodoni

07-05-2010, 04:33 PM

CarnalK

07-05-2010, 05:49 PM

The guy was trying to get hits for his link. He's done it on other boards. He's not interested in participating on a board, other than to get hits. That's a spammer, whether or not he's making money from the hits he gets.

So you searched his posting history on other boards and found all he was doing was linking a youtube vid ("his" link)? Because a quick search by myself did not show that. Besides, it's not a malware-ridden site selling fake viagra. It was a guy who apparently likes to make goofy music.

I think I'll stand by my judgment that this was a very liberal and grumpy definition of spam.
While we sometimes may allow this sort of thing by established posters (providing permission is requested beforehand), coming here mainly just to post a link to promote yourself (for whatever reason) isn't acceptable.
Did you listen to the song? It was about joining a message board, ffs.

eta: not that I'm arguing that you should reverse the ruling. I think the first impression you guys gave would make most people welcome a banning.

Czarcasm

07-05-2010, 06:18 PM

So you searched his posting history on other boards and found all he was doing was linking a youtube vid ("his" link)? Because a quick search by myself did not show that. Besides, it's not a malware-ridden site selling fake viagra. It was a guy who apparently likes to make goofy music.

I think I'll stand by my judgment that this was a very liberal and grumpy definition of spam.

Did you listen to the song? It was about joining a message board, ffs.

eta: not that I'm arguing that you should reverse the ruling. I think the first impression you guys gave would make most people welcome a banning.How long are you sentenced to be here? Is there any hope for parole?

Sage Rat

07-05-2010, 06:48 PM

Judging by chacoguy's having a screenshot of the ban message, I'm suspecting that he knows the perpetrator (which makes it seem questionable that it was really a spammer).

BigT

07-05-2010, 07:00 PM

How long are you sentenced to be here? Is there any hope for parole?

Complaining about how a board is run does not have anything to do with enjoying the boards themselves. The mods overinflate their importance--they don't provide most of the content, and the content is the reason why people stay.

How stupid would it have been if I'd quit over your moderating decision against me? Not only were you one guy who was bugging me, but you were going to stop being a mod pretty soon afterward.

Quitting a board of over 6000 people because maybe 10 of them do something you don't like? That would be absolutely stupid.

samclem

07-05-2010, 08:02 PM

Let me try to add some insight to this matter. A timeline may help.

A person name Thrustin. registered and posted at about 3:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time(US) on 03 July 2010. That's the middle of the night for many moderators. Sorry about that.

I'm assuming that there was a "report this post" directed to the moderators in MPSIMS.

At some point the next morning, our newest moderator Spectre of Pithecanthropus, must have been alerted to the post and both removed the post and the poster from the Board. He didn't exactly do what long time moderators do---move the thread to moderation and disappear the poster. He disappeared the poster, but let's say, for arguments sake, he put the post in limbo. Yeah, we have a limbo and a purgatory here. He's new, remember? :)

Our own beloved Chefguy started the controversy [yeah! I'm looking at you, big guy :D] by starting a thread asking what happened to Thrustin.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=569512 This would have been at 3:51PM(EDT) 03 July 2010.

So then, some of the older mod-hands(as opposed to man-hands] started to investigate. It was made a bit more complicated because specs didn't remove the thread in the usual manner. He didn't screw up, he just flummoxed us. [Always wanted to use that term]

From this point on, the main import is that other mods got involved.

I was probably in the forefront. I'm up early, got on it, found out the guy had been banned from a music board, to which he had been a long time poster, for being a troll. Twice.

So, I didn't think twice about his being an asset to this Board. Maybe a bad business decision, but, meh. If I ban 50 people unjustly, then I'm a fuck-up.

If you bother to go to his posts, under his same name "Thrustin" on www.giraffeboards.com, then you can judge for yourself if he was truly just innocently posting a youtube vid here.

samclem

07-05-2010, 08:09 PM

Complaining about how a board is run does not have anything to do with enjoying the boards themselves. The mods overinflate their importance--they don't provide most of the content, and the content is the reason why people stay.

How stupid would it have been if I'd quit over your moderating decision against me? Not only were you one guy who was bugging me, but you were going to stop being a mod pretty soon afterward.

Quitting a board of over 6000 people because maybe 10 of them do something you don't like? That would be absolutely stupid.

Please, please, get over yourself.

The MODS here don't "overinflate their importance". Most of them try to downplay it. They really, really do.

MOST of the posters here provide "content" that is "shit." Most of the post are "shit." Worthless. We're always grateful for posters who provide intelligent, well thought-out, researched, vetted information. That's what we're looking for. But that sure ain't most of the posts here.

Now, if you have a bone to pick with czarcasm, then go pick his bones. But don't hijack this one.

CarnalK

07-06-2010, 07:05 AM

Now, if you have a bone to pick with czarcasm, then go pick his bones. But don't hijack this one.

You should probably remind czarcasm of that as well in regards to me.
If you bother to go to his posts, under his same name "Thrustin" on www.giraffeboards.com, then you can judge for yourself if he was truly just innocently posting a youtube vid here.
I think if people actually do that they will indeed see he was just posting "innocently".

TubaDiva

07-06-2010, 07:11 AM

Don't make us turn this thread around.

Czarcasm

07-06-2010, 07:12 AM

You should probably remind czarcasm of that as well in regards to me.Let me remind you of something-the "C" in my name is capitalized.

Your Friendly Neighborhood Czarcasm

CarnalK

07-06-2010, 07:13 AM

Let me remind you of something-the "C" in my name is capitalized.

Your Friendly Neighborhood Czarcasm

Sorry, I just cut and pasted from sam's post.

SoulFrost

07-06-2010, 07:18 AM

MOST of the posters here provide "content" that is "shit." Most of the post are "shit." Worthless. We're always grateful for posters who provide intelligent, well thought-out, researched, vetted information. That's what we're looking for. But that sure ain't most of the posts here.

Good to know how you feel, there, sam.

Even though the content may not always be what you're looking for, it is the reason why people stay.

kayaker

07-06-2010, 07:59 AM

MOST of the posters here provide "content" that is "shit." Most of the post are "shit."

At least mine don't stink.:p

TubaDiva

07-06-2010, 08:01 AM

People stay here for all sorts of reasons but I would venture to say few of them come for the spam.

MsWhatsit

07-06-2010, 08:22 AM

CarnalK

07-06-2010, 08:45 AM

People stay here for all sorts of reasons but I would venture to say few of them come for the spam.
I am sure a few come for the goofy youtube links in MPSIMS, which this seems a lot more like than spam.

MsWhatsit

07-06-2010, 08:52 AM

If you bother to go to his posts, under his same name "Thrustin" on www.giraffeboards.com, then you can judge for yourself if he was truly just innocently posting a youtube vid here.

OK, I did this. What the hell are you talking about? He has several posts on the Giraffe Boards. I looked at a handful, and he only linked to a YouTube vid in one of them, and it was relevant to the thread. He seems like a legit poster to me.

Of course, this post probably qualifies as just one more worthless piece of shit in your opinion, but you told us to go look at his posts over there, so I did, and I have no idea why you think his Giraffe Board posts indicate that he is some kind of spammer. Spammers post links to their spam sites and then disappear. They don't hang around posting in music threads and "threadkiller" threads and "random stuff I want to talk about today" threads.

Czarcasm

07-06-2010, 09:04 AM

Gee, thanks.I thought it was a humorous reference to Sturgeon's Law.

MsWhatsit

07-06-2010, 09:16 AM

Huh. I'm familiar with Sturgeon's Law and did not get that from samclem's post in the slightest, although to be fair his posts in this thread have been kind of rambly and hard to follow.

TubaDiva

07-06-2010, 09:20 AM

I note that this guy didn't bother to write and ask why he was banned -- instead he goes to another board and uses his banning as a teeing-off point looking to generate . . . I dunno, sympathy? Credibility? That is not the behavior of someone who wants to be a member of the Straight Dope community but looks an awful lot like someone who wants to play "let's you and him fight."

Yes, if we ban someone unfairly and they bring it to our attention we can reverse it. Sometimes all it takes is a bit of clarification on all sides and things can be copacetic. On the other hand, we remove spammers from this board all day long and something like 99.9% of them don't inquire why they got removed because they know damn well how and why.

This board is open to anyone who bothers to check in, read a little, and make themselves part of the community. There's no evidence this guy did that any of that; he had his own agenda. We're not obliged to support it.

MsWhatsit

07-06-2010, 09:28 AM

If I were a regular poster on another message board and a friend convinced me to come try out this SDMB place, and then I got banned after my first post here, I think it would be a pretty reasonable reaction for me to go back to the original message board and post about how, "Yo, I just got banned after my first post over there."

I probably would not bother to write the admins and ask about my banning, because getting banned right out of the gate like that would make me feel like this was not the kind of place I wanted to hang out at.

This is irking me, btw, not because I feel like specifically defending the bannee in this case, but because I feel like in general we should be working to get new members here and make them feel welcome, and not drive off newbies just because they posted a YouTube link in their first post here. I mean, you guys aren't robots; you can tell the difference between someone who's posting a Viagra link and someone who's posting a link to a funny song they made about joining a message board, right? Nobody banned lobstermobster back when she was linking to Microsoft Paint pictures that she made.

kayaker

07-06-2010, 09:34 AM

Huh. I'm familiar with Sturgeon's Law and did not get that from samclem's post in the slightest, although to be fair his posts in this thread have been kind of rambly and hard to follow.

(shhhhhhhh....I think someone snuck a big-boy drink off of the picnic table when nobody was looking.)

Really Not All That Bright

07-06-2010, 09:34 AM

People stay here for all sorts of reasons but I would venture to say few of them come for the spam.
The devil, you say.

CarnalK

07-06-2010, 10:09 AM

I probably would not bother to write the admins and ask about my banning, because getting banned right out of the gate like that would make me feel like this was not the kind of place I wanted to hang out at.

No kidding, If the fact that he didn't write an email to discuss how he could make amends is how the mods are retroactively justifying the "spam" call, it's rather weak. As I said upthread "I think the first impression you guys gave would make most people welcome a banning."

TubaDiva

07-06-2010, 11:10 AM

Welcome to your Tuesday movie matinee. This afternoon's feature is CarnalK starring in "I Was A Fugitive From A Message Board."

:D

MsWhatsit

07-06-2010, 11:14 AM

Huh?

Vinyl Turnip

07-06-2010, 11:23 AM

The MODS here don't "overinflate their importance". Most of them try to downplay it. They really, really do.

MOST of the posters here provide "content" that is "shit." Most of the post are "shit." Worthless. We're always grateful for posters who provide intelligent, well thought-out, researched, vetted information. That's what we're looking for. But that sure ain't most of the posts here.

This reminds me of an article I read somewhere once about a phenomenon that affects many police officers, who gradually lose their social ties with everyone except fellow cops and come to instinctively view all civilians as "scumbags," or at least potential scumbags. A troubling mindset that suggests the need for a good long vacation, no?

MeanOldLady

07-06-2010, 11:36 AM

If you bother to go to his posts, under his same name "Thrustin" on www.giraffeboards.com, then you can judge for yourself if he was truly just innocently posting a youtube vid here.Actually, reading that convinced me that he is not a spammer.

I note that this guy didn't bother to write and ask why he was banned -- instead he goes to another board and uses his banning as a teeing-off point looking to generate . . . I dunno, sympathy? Credibility? That is not the behavior of someone who wants to be a member of the Straight Dope community but looks an awful lot like someone who wants to play "let's you and him fight."So is the banning justified now because he didn't want strongly enough to be a proper member of this community, or because he was spam?

cerberus

07-06-2010, 12:11 PM

If you're going to spam us, be nice and provide some ponzu and daikon, so we can at least enjoy some spam tataki.

It isn't at all a subtle board convention to, at a bare minimum, to frown upon the practice of using someone else's board as a venue for publicizing your shit.

CarnalK

07-06-2010, 01:16 PM

Welcome to your Tuesday movie matinee. This afternoon's feature is CarnalK starring in "I Was A Fugitive From A Message Board."

:D
So not only do you let Czarcasm take a poke at me, you join in. You're a class act, ms fearless leader. But despite your efforts, this thread is about the itchy ban finger you guys have - not about me.

eta: cerberus, he was basically doing a "hello, I'm new" post which included a song about joining a message board. It really isn't spam even if the mods think he was annoying.

Dewey Finn

07-06-2010, 01:40 PM

Judging by chacoguy's having a screenshot of the ban message, I'm suspecting that he knows the perpetrator (which makes it seem questionable that it was really a spammer).
Thrustin posted the screenshot on The Giraffe Boards, which is where I assume that chacoguy got it from.

Omegaman

07-06-2010, 02:21 PM

People stay here for all sorts of reasons but I would venture to say few of them come for the spam.

I like the bacon kind. With miracle whip.

Dallas Jones

07-06-2010, 03:03 PM

MOST of the posters here provide "content" that is "shit." Most of the post are "shit." Worthless. We're always grateful for posters who provide intelligent, well thought-out, researched, vetted information. That's what we're looking for. But that sure ain't most of the posts here.

Thank you for this clear and concise mission statement from the Customer Service Department of the Straight Dope Message Board.

Even guests and people who are just clicking through out of curiosity generate income for this business. It is nice to occationally get such an honest statement.

The owners must be so proud.

MeanOldLady

07-06-2010, 03:19 PM

samclem hates us all. Sweet.

MsWhatsit

07-06-2010, 03:25 PM

Aw, come on. He doesn't hate us. He just thinks that our posts are worthless shit.

MeanOldLady

07-06-2010, 03:31 PM

Oh, he just hates our posts. Okay, I'm totally cool with that.

Giraffe

07-06-2010, 03:34 PM

Thank you for this clear and concise mission statement from the Customer Service Department of the Straight Dope Message Board.

Even guests and people who are just clicking through out of curiosity generate income for this business. It is nice to occationally get such an honest statement.

The owners must be so proud.
I'm really hoping that samclem will come back and clarify that -- I'm personally guessing that he was just having a weird sense of humor day and it was an attempt to be funny/ironic that fell kind of flat, because that came across as pretty out of character from my previous experience of him as a mod. I can't imagine he actually thinks most of the posters here post worthless shit.

samclem

07-06-2010, 06:39 PM

Please, please, get over yourself.

The MODS here don't "overinflate their importance". Most of them try to downplay it. They really, really do.

MOST of the posters here provide "content" that is "shit." Most of the post are "shit." Worthless. We're always grateful for posters who provide intelligent, well thought-out, researched, vetted information. That's what we're looking for. But that sure ain't most of the posts here.

Now, if you have a bone to pick with czarcasm, then go pick his bones. But don't hijack this one.

I'm really hoping that samclem will come back and clarify that -- I'm personally guessing that he was just having a weird sense of humor day and it was an attempt to be funny/ironic that fell kind of flat, because that came across as pretty out of character from my previous experience of him as a mod. I can't imagine he actually thinks most of the posters here post worthless shit.
Sorry, and I apologize to everyone on the boards.

I was having a hot and humid bad evening.

Just for the record, I never said any posters were "shit." They aren't. But most of the posts to the Board in general are mindless chitchat. My thinking progressed from "We posters provide the content here so treat us with more respect" to "moderators all suk" to "your bizness model sux." Then I let my bad evening cause me to post in a nasty way that isn't me.

Again, I apologize to Ed Zotti, all the other mods/Admins, but most of all to my fellow posters.

samclem.

SoulFrost

07-06-2010, 06:50 PM

Sorry, and I apologize to everyone on the boards.

I was having a hot and humid bad evening.

Just for the record, I never said any posters were "shit." They aren't. But most of the posts to the Board in general are mindless chitchat. My thinking progressed from "We posters provide the content here so treat us with more respect" to "moderators all suk" to "your bizness model sux." Then I let my bad evening cause me to post in a nasty way that isn't me.

Again, I apologize to Ed Zotti, all the other mods/Admins, but most of all to my fellow posters.

samclem.

Hope you're feeling better, sam.

Autolycus

07-06-2010, 09:04 PM

MOST of the posters here provide "content" that is "shit." Most of the post are "shit."

Hey, I resemble that remark! (Thanks for the apology).

hajario

07-06-2010, 10:23 PM

Giraffe

07-06-2010, 10:29 PM

Glad you're feeling better, sam. That was so crazily out of character that I figured you were having a bad day. I can sympathize. We've been overcast and hovering between 68 and 72 out here for weeks with no end in sight.
You are a monster. :D

Good job on the clarification, sam, and don't feel bad -- years and years of awesomeness can't be erased by one grumpy post. It takes like four.

MsWhatsit

07-07-2010, 08:14 AM

Yes, apology accepted. Now go forth and sin no more.

kayaker

07-07-2010, 08:20 AM

Sorry, and I apologize to everyone on the boards.

We cool.

Sorry about all the magazine subscriptions.

Shot From Guns

07-08-2010, 11:20 AM

samclem, thanks for the apology. Things like that make for good moderators.

And just chiming in to say that I think it was ridiculous to ban someone based on posting a single thread in the appropriate forum that would have been 100% innocuous if it came as anything other than a first post.

The new member was given no opportunity to contribute. And if that single thread was it... So what? How is the board harmed in any way by someone making one (one!) thread to share a song they wrote about... joining forums?

BigT

07-17-2010, 10:30 AM

You are a monster. :D

Good job on the clarification, sam, and don't feel bad -- years and years of awesomeness can't be erased by one grumpy post. It takes like four.

Or a threadful, Like I did.

And I apologize for implying more than I meant. I just hate the "If you don't like the way we moderate, then go away" style posts. Yeah, you can leave if it's that important to you, but if you like the content, is it that hard to follow the rules you don't like?

Oh, and sorry for not coming here sooner. Ever since that one explosion, I've been staying more out of ATMB. Plus, for once, I've been feeling somewhat better and have actually had a bit of a life.

And, yes, this is a public apology since I apparently offended you in public.

Spectre of Pithecanthropus

07-17-2010, 01:27 PM

Sam didn't say that the guy "mainly posted to link to his drumming"; he said that "his thread ... was mainly posted to link to his drumming." The OP consisted of little more than the link to youtube; the guy didn't post the link multiple times.

Thrustin's OP, by itself, actually only looked a little inane, but not banworthy. Think about it: here's a new member who evidently hasn't joined to ask a question or discuss a topic, but comes on with, "Well nobody's welcomed me, so I'll have to welcome myself.", witih nothing else in the thread but his link. What is that, anyway? Even so, in and of itself, that's not something that would normally incite me to ban someone, or even take any moderator action at all, at least with a first ever post.

However, in subsequent posts downthread, he mentioned "auditioning" for other message boards. What tipped me over the edge was that the top hits from googling his email address were all self promotional sites touting his services as a drummer, which led me to the conclusion that he was here only to promote himself.

We've had a number of threads where the OP invites members to show their chops musically. That sort of thing is fine, and it's usually OK to post a link to yourself playing an instrument or singing, provided it's done in the spirit of sharing with the community here. Lots of us here, myself included, have been mentioning here and there for years that we play this or that instrument, or write short stories, or whatever.

But if it appears that the OP has opened a thread only to solicit hits to his or her YouTube video, and you don't offer any additional commentary that's not good. If you exploit the way Google works with the SDMB to draw outsiders to your thread so they can listen to you play, then that's not OK. (FTR in this case it doesn't appear that Thrustin was trying to manipulate Google.). I

Some have questioned the use of the term "spam". Admittedly it was an overly-broad usage of the word, but it seemed to fit in terms of the OP's apparent effort at self promotion.

Shot From Guns

07-19-2010, 11:32 AM

samclem

07-19-2010, 06:51 PM

So what?

Why not let him actually demonstrate through his posts what he's here to do? If all he does is link back to his own work, great, then ban him. But to condemn him for self-promotion before he even gets around to doing anything that couldn't have other interpretations strikes me as being very, very quick on the ban-hammer.

At most, this should have been met with a friendly suggestion to contribute in additional ways.
thrustin's experience over at the Giraffe Board, IMHO, just backs up our original decision. He was boxed(a great tool) shortly after getting there. He was just let out with quite a few conditions, one of which was to limit his self-promotional videos. Time will tell.

After he was banned here by spectre, I followed up in the next few hours by searching the internet to see if he was a legit poster, a troll, a spammer, etc. I determined that he was a combination of a self-promoting spammer and tended to troll other boards which he had belonged to. Based on my findings, I let the ban stand. If I hadn't found what I did, then I would have suggested in the mod loop that we reinstate him.

CarnalK

07-19-2010, 07:09 PM

thrustin's experience over at the Giraffe Board, IMHO, just backs up our original decision. He was boxed(a great tool) shortly after getting there. He was just let out with quite a few conditions, one of which was to limit his self-promotional videos. Time will tell.

After he was banned here by spectre, I followed up in the next few hours by searching the internet to see if he was a legit poster, a troll, a spammer, etc. I determined that he was a combination of a self-promoting spammer and tended to troll other boards which he had belonged to. Based on my findings, I let the ban stand. If I hadn't found what I did, then I would have suggested in the mod loop that we reinstate him.

It's just kind of funny how we are often told that moderators have lives and that they can't read every thread and that they rely on people to report bad posts, but here we have a team effort researching somebody's off board activity to evaluate whether he should be/ was right to be banned, after he makes one very innocuous post. Quite bizarre.

Seems to me you could have saved yourselves a lot of effort by just waiting for him to do something ban-worthy here and let someone report it to you. Would have been tonnes more proper as well.

samclem

07-19-2010, 07:42 PM

It's just kind of funny how we are often told that moderators have lives and that they can't read every thread and that they rely on people to report bad posts, but here we have a team effort researching somebody's off board activity to evaluate whether he should be/ was right to be banned, after he makes one very innocuous post. Quite bizarre.

Seems to me you could have saved yourselves a lot of effort by just waiting for him to do something ban-worthy here and let someone report it to you. Would have been tonnes more proper as well.

He made his "innocuous" post at 3:53AM on a Saturday morning, Eastern Daylight Time in the US.

His post was reported to the moderators in MPSIMS. Sometime later that morning, when spectre read it, he banned the guy. It was a Saturday morning. I worked all that day until about 5PM, EDT.

Chefguy had started a thread a few hours before I got home, 3:51PM on Sat to be precise. I also read that thread when I got home and read emails and the Board.

I was probably the point guy. I did some work on the poster that night, but I think I did most of my work the next morning. It was Sunday, I didn't have to work, so I could do what I wanted. I determined, sometime on Sunday, that the banning was correct.

Since you're so concerned, why don't you cruise over to Giraffe Board and read all of thrustin's posts, and read Giraffe's post where he let's our boy out of the Box, with restrictions.

Maybe we were just prescient--yeah, that's it!

Spectre of Pithecanthropus

07-20-2010, 12:43 AM

thrustin's
After he was banned here by spectre, I followed up in the next few hours by searching the internet to see if he was a legit poster, a troll, a spammer, etc. I determined that he was a combination of a self-promoting spammer and tended to troll other boards which he had belonged to. Based on my findings, I let the ban stand. If I hadn't found what I did, then I would have suggested in the mod loop that we reinstate him.
In fact, what samclem did here is, in essence, what I did myself before I came to the same conclusion and pulled the trigger.

Spectre of Pithecanthropus

07-20-2010, 01:07 AM

but here we have a team effort researching somebody's off board activity to evaluate whether he should be/ was right to be banned, after he makes one very innocuous post. Quite bizarre.

Team effort? Indeed not. Sam and I conducted our researches independently of one another, and reached the same conclusion.

BigT

07-20-2010, 01:38 AM

Team effort? Indeed not. Sam and I conducted our researches independently of one another, and reached the same conclusion.

That someone who has a history of being a bad poster can't be a good poster. That behavior on other boards is now somehow grounds for banning.

Can you really not understand why people are upset, despite the fact that you did what you think was right? A spammer is usually thought of as being either a bot, or a shill. Not someone self-promoting. When evidence arrived that it was really a person, who was apparently upset, that pissed some people off.

And, of course, trollery on other boards, as far as I know, has never been a bannable offense, so that's irrelevant.

I'm not saying you made the wrong decision. But you do need to address the underlying problem, and not just what rationale went into your decision.

Garfield226

07-20-2010, 01:40 AM

Team effort? Indeed not. Sam and I conducted our researches independently of one another, and reached the same conclusion.

Both halves of that post (i.e. not just the part you quoted) are important. You seem to have missed that the point was not so much that moderators worked together, but rather that the amount of time and effort spent on this relatively benign post seemed to be excessive in light of the fact that we are often told that moderators have lives and that they can't read every thread and that they rely on people to report bad posts

And now we know that that time and effort was doubled. So...good job?

Shot From Guns

07-20-2010, 09:45 AM

thrustin's experience over at the Giraffe Board, IMHO, just backs up our original decision. He was boxed(a great tool) shortly after getting there. He was just let out with quite a few conditions, one of which was to limit his self-promotional videos.

So, going by your report, it seems that they:

a.) Actually waited for him to engage in nothing but self-promotion;
b.) Restricted him but did not ban him when he did;
c.) Made it clear to him what he was doing wrong; and
d.) Allowed him the opportunity to fix his behavior and become a member of the community.

If you can't see how that's completely different and 100% better than what was done here, you shouldn't be moderating.

Seems to me you could have saved yourselves a lot of effort by just waiting for him to do something ban-worthy here and let someone report it to you. Would have been tonnes more proper as well.

Exactly.

Except I would have spelled it "tons." USA! USA! USA!

samclem

07-20-2010, 04:26 PM

So, going by your report, it seems that they:

a.) Actually waited for him to engage in nothing but self-promotion;
b.) Restricted him but did not ban him when he did;
c.) Made it clear to him what he was doing wrong; and
d.) Allowed him the opportunity to fix his behavior and become a member of the community.

If you can't see how that's completely different and 100% better than what was done here, you shouldn't be moderating.

Giraffe Boards has quite a different policy about posters such as thrustin. They let anyone post until the point that he/she/it posts in a trollish or other manner that doesn't fit in with board policy/etiquette. That's actually an interesting idea but I doubt the SDMB will adopt it, and I"m not suggesting we should. I think you have to be a truly evil poster to get banned over there.

thrustin was allowed to post openly there for a number of days before he got put into the box. If the Giraffe Board hadn't adopted the "box," I have little doubt they would have banned him. Again, the idea that we'll institute a "box" at the SDMB is doubtful.

And, yep, he recently got let out of the box. Hope he follows instructions well and survives.

It really is just a matter of style in which you run your board.

hajario

07-20-2010, 06:04 PM

thrustin was allowed to post openly there for a number of days before he got put into the box. If the Giraffe Board hadn't adopted the "box," I have little doubt they would have banned him.

I'm only speaking for myself and not the rest of the staff over there but I think that we would have formally warned him once before resorting to banning. We've only ever totally banned one user (plus his sock) in a year and a half not including spambots.

And, yep, he recently got let out of the box. Hope he follows instructions well and survives.

So far so good.

It really is just a matter of style in which you run your board.

True dat.

hajario
Giraffe Board Admin.

Shot From Guns

07-21-2010, 10:55 AM

They let anyone post until the point that he/she/it posts in a trollish or other manner that doesn't fit in with board policy/etiquette.

Isn't that how it's supposed to work here, too? I mean, that's kind of the point of having policies in place for when people are banned--so that everyone isn't living in perpetual fear of being shut out just because some mod was in a bad mood. And yes, the SDMB staff can ban anybody at any time for any reason, but that doesn't mean they should.

I feel like I'm getting called a crazy person for saying that people shouldn't be banned until they break a rule.

If we're just straight-off banning anybody who isn't going to contribute anything worthwhile, or at least is going to spend the majority of the time repeating the same tired shit, I can think of a few posters who deserve to get the ban-hammer right-fucking-now.

ETA:

And I think you should also look at hajario's point about giving warnings. Unless someone is being actively destructive, there's no reason, ESPECIALLY WITH A NEW USER, not to say, "You're breaking Rule X; if you don't stop, then we'll ban you."

And as I'm sure I've mentioned before, I'm not saying this as just some poster--I'm saying it as a person who has been in your shoes, someone who's moderated on a community much larger than this one (500k+ users). I can't ever imagine banning someone just for making an OP like that.