Pete Stark is a frickin' idiot

[Clothahump]

This pompous jackass is a walking, talking argument in favor of term limits. I hope the citizens of California remember this piece of idiocy (http://indyposted.com/30024/california-congressman-pete-stark-sneers-at-constituents-video/) when his next election comes around.

[ElvisL1ves]

Sneering at the "Minutemen" yahoos is more polite treatment than they deserve. Bravo to Stark for not trying to make nice to every troglodyte in his district, and instead standing up for truer and more noble American values.

Clothy, you would do well to do the same.

[Airman Doors, USAF]

If, as the video title asserts, Pete Stark says the borders are secure, he's deluding himself. Baghdad Bob couldn't say that with a straight face.

Also, while I'm not too keen on the "Minutemen", he went right after them, immediately poisoning the well for the rest of the discussion (which I didn't see, I'm not sitting through 10 minutes of childishness). That's not appropriate, in my opinion. What ever happened to decorum?

[RickJay]

The problem with videos like this, as usual, is that they're edited. We join this discussion in the middle of a conversation and have no idea what took place BEFORE the video commences. For all we know a self-proclaimed Minuteman had been the previous speaker and had said he wanted to kill illegal immigrants, or had demanded the U.S. government provide Minutemen with weapons. (and isn't Fremont kind of far from the border?)

Absent an unedited version of the video, it's hard to ascertain the context, and therefore appropriateness, of Stark's comments.

[RickJay]

And frankly, his point about ladders is entirely valid. Like, seriously, the man thinks building a wall is going to help? You don't think they have ladders and ropes in Mexico? Or what the announcement that a giant wall was being built wouldn't cause a HUGE onetime influx of immigrants?

Perhaps Stark should have been more patient, and no matter what he should not have insulted the one questioner, but he's not an "idiot." He looks like a man who's dealing with idiots - almost every question he gets is absurd - and is just a bit short of patience. It's a hard job and he's gotta do it, but it's not "idiotic."

Even the makers of the video make idiotic comments. Here's the wording on the screen at 6:40:

"San Francisco, Oakland, and most Bay Area cities do not deport illegals."

Gosh, really? You mean San Francisco doesn't have a fucking Department of State or its own DHS to... of course the CITIES don't deport illegals. When has a municipal government ever been responsible for deporting anyone?

[Enderw24]

Cloth,

Here's a bit of math for you to brighten up this pit thread.

Total Miles of US-Mexico border: 1,969.
Total feet: 10,396,320

Minuteman's suggestion of a wall at $500 per foot (going up however high you feel like it should go): $5.2 billion

Minuteman's suggestion of 25,000 troops (in shifts of 5 because they can't work 7 days a week): 1 guard every 2,079 feet.
Cost for 25,000 troops at $35,000 per troop: $875 million.


So what have we learned here: giving a ridiculously conservative estimate on the cost of a wall and assuming NO upkeep to it, assuming a pretty low salary per soldier, and completely ignoring things like materials, supplies and transportation to get these soldiers to the middle of nowhere to guard nothing...you still have a $5 billion startup cost and $1 billion annual expenditure.
All of that on something that may or may not work anyway so that anti-government people can ironically force the government to solve a problem that isn't nearly as dire as the solutions would have you believe.

Or the TLDR version: nutty Mcnuttertons are nuts and a Congressman gave them about as much of a response as they deserved.

[NurseCarmen]

Total Miles of US-Mexico border: 1,969.
Total feet: 10,396,320

Minuteman's suggestion of a wall at $500 per foot (going up however high you feel like it should go): $5.2 billion

Minuteman's suggestion of 25,000 troops (in shifts of 5 because they can't work 7 days a week): 1 guard every 2,079 feet.
Cost for 25,000 troops at $35,000 per troop: $875 million.
One Mexican shovel? Priceless.

[Clothahump]

Cloth,

Here's a bit of math for you to brighten up this pit thread.

Total Miles of US-Mexico border: 1,969.
Total feet: 10,396,320

Minuteman's suggestion of a wall at $500 per foot (going up however high you feel like it should go): $5.2 billion

Minuteman's suggestion of 25,000 troops (in shifts of 5 because they can't work 7 days a week): 1 guard every 2,079 feet.
Cost for 25,000 troops at $35,000 per troop: $875 million.


So what have we learned here: giving a ridiculously conservative estimate on the cost of a wall and assuming NO upkeep to it, assuming a pretty low salary per soldier, and completely ignoring things like materials, supplies and transportation to get these soldiers to the middle of nowhere to guard nothing...you still have a $5 billion startup cost and $1 billion annual expenditure.

That's still cheaper than the cost of having illegals flood across the border.

This is an old study from 2003. I can only imagine that the costs have gone higher. Your estimate is a bargain compared to the existing costs.

This study is one of the first to estimate the total impact of illegal immigration on the federal budget. Most previous studies have focused on the state and local level and have examined only costs or tax payments, but not both. Based on Census Bureau data, this study finds that, when all taxes paid (direct and indirect) and all costs are considered, illegal households created a net fiscal deficit at the federal level of more than $10 billion in 2002.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

And the Border Fence Project (http://www.borderfenceproject.com/) is currently building new fencing at $5 per foot.

[Clothahump]

Sneering at the "Minutemen" yahoos is more polite treatment than they deserve. Bravo to Stark for not trying to make nice to every troglodyte in his district, and instead standing up for truer and more noble American values.

Clothy, you would do well to do the same.

Letting illegals flood across the border is a "truer and more noble American value"?

You're delusional, dude.

[ElvisL1ves]

You have no idea who these trigger-happy yahoos even are, do you?

BTW, where did your ancestors (or you) come from?

[suranyi]

Ah, my congressman.

Interesting district. It's liberal, but far from the most liberal district in California. One intersting thing is that has one of the highest percentage of Asians of any district outside of Hawaii. The city I live in is over 40% Asian. There are far more Asians than Latinos around here.

[jayjay]

Letting illegals flood across the border is a "truer and more noble American value"?

I can't think of anything more American, considering how this country was populated in the first place...

[Bryan Ekers]

And I'm surprised - his brother Tony is quite clever.

[RickJay]

That's still cheaper than the cost of having illegals flood across the border.

This is an old study from 2003. I can only imagine that the costs have gone higher. Your estimate is a bargain compared to the existing costs.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

And the Border Fence Project (http://www.borderfenceproject.com/) is currently building new fencing at $5 per foot.
Holy crap! OVER FIVE MILES OF FENCE ALREADY BUILT! And in colourful fonts!

Why, that will stop... nobody!

And in the year 2617, when they've finished the fence, I'm sure nobody in Mexico will have a ladder. Or a saw. Or be able to climb what appears to be a pretty rudimentary fence.

[ElvisL1ves]

It's only Mexican illegals we need to worry about, hmmm? Not you moosejockeys?

[Enderw24]

That's still cheaper than the cost of having illegals flood across the border.

This is an old study from 2003. I can only imagine that the costs have gone higher. Your estimate is a bargain compared to the existing costs.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

And the Border Fence Project (http://www.borderfenceproject.com/) is currently building new fencing at $5 per foot.

My estimates were ridiculously, purposely undercosted on all fronts to prove just how expensive it would be even at those bargain basement rates. Even with ALL my suggestions in place, there's no guarantee it's actually going to work to stop illegals from coming into the country.

And like rock to paper, your $5 fence falls to wireclippers.

[RickJay]

It's only Mexican illegals we need to worry about, hmmm? Not you moosejockeys?
The Minutemen tried building a fence on the border here, but they drowned in Lake Ontario.

[Little Nemo]

That's still cheaper than the cost of having illegals flood across the border.Heck, no. Here's the great thing about illegal immigrants - we get them for free! They're like kittens or zucchini.

[kaylasdad99]

"Illegal" is an adjective. Our language has no plural form for adjectives. "Illegals" is not a valid word in our language.

Q.E.D.

Knock it off.

[Polycarp]

Letting illegals flood across the border is a "truer and more noble American value"?

You're delusional, dude.

The Haudenosaunee and the Tsalagi would agree with you.

[The Second Stone]

Why should the Minutemice be treated with anything other than disdain? I don't see you objecting when a Republican like Bush requires people to sign a loyalty oath to their campaign to come into the same hall.

[Rhythmdvl]

Shit, for $5 a box you can get an awful lot of BBs. Throw handfuls of them all along the border. Not only will it stop illegal entry, the videos of the slipping and falling will be hilarious!

Now, since this will be just as effective at preventing illegal entry as a wall (chain-link, great, or otherwise), I demand that I be taken seriously.

I DEMAND TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY!

[Vinyl Turnip]

"Illegal" is an adjective. Our language has no plural form for adjectives. "Illegals" is not a valid word in our language.

Q.E.D.

Knock it off.


Sorry, not (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/illegal) true (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/illegal).

[Lobohan]

We should all stop for a moment and reflect on how utterly and amazingly stupid and uninformed Clothahump is.




...




Okay? Everyone done? Good, you may now resume the thread.

[Really Not All That Bright]

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

And the Border Fence Project (http://www.borderfenceproject.com/) is currently building new fencing at $5 per foot.
A study by an anti-immigration organization finds that illegal immigration costs money? Shocking!

[Rhythmdvl]

Sorry, not (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/illegal) true (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/illegal).

You gave kaylasdad99 the blues. :(

[elucidator]

"The blues ain't about making yourself feel good. The blues is about making other people feel bad!"

- "Bleeding Gums" Murphy

[Damuri Ajashi]

Total Miles of US-Mexico border: 1,969.
Total feet: 10,396,320

So if we took everyone on unemployment and had them link arms, we could create a human fence along the southern border?

[ElvisL1ves]

Red Rover, Red Rover, let Luis come over!

[Damuri Ajashi]

That's still cheaper than the cost of having illegals flood across the border.

Yes but without the benefit of all that cheap labor.

This is an old study from 2003. I can only imagine that the costs have gone higher. Your estimate is a bargain compared to the existing costs.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

I don't know a lot of people that are championing illegal immigration and the econmic impact of illegal immigration is real and significant. as a quick aside, 2010 was the first year when more than half of US households received more in direct payments than they paid in taxes. Now a lot of these are retireees whor eceive social security and medicare but the point remains. This obviously doesn't argue for adding more illegal aliens to the mix but its something to think about before we protray this cheap labor as parasites on society.

And the Border Fence Project (http://www.borderfenceproject.com/) is currently building new fencing at $5 per foot.

IIRC, its $5/foot because most of the 5 miles of fencings was paid for by the folks that owned the land along the border.

[Damuri Ajashi]

Shit, for $5 a box you can get an awful lot of BBs. Throw handfuls of them all along the border. Not only will it stop illegal entry, the videos of the slipping and falling will be hilarious!

Now, since this will be just as effective at preventing illegal entry as a wall (chain-link, great, or otherwise), I demand that I be taken seriously.

I DEMAND TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY!

Well fencing does work in diverting illegal crossing to places where there isn't any fencing. So the answer to that has been "lets fence the entire border" Well that's where the ladder comes in. Unless you are ready to patrol the entire border, the fence just slows down an individual illegal immigrant, it doesn't slow down illegal immigration. The only places i know whereh they are able to maintain border integrity with any success is places like the Berlin Wall, North Korea's northern border with China, the wall around Gaza, the Jewish ghettos, etc. You have to be willing to shoot to kill to deter people from moving cross an imaginary line in the middle of the desert that separates you from the American dream.

[Bosstone]

Well, we could cut costs on that wall if we got some cheap labor to build it.

[Voyager]

Ah, my congressman.

Interesting district. It's liberal, but far from the most liberal district in California. One intersting thing is that has one of the highest percentage of Asians of any district outside of Hawaii. The city I live in is over 40% Asian. There are far more Asians than Latinos around here.

Mine too. Plus, we have a very diverse population, with the biggest Afghan population in the US - and some awesome groceries.

This thread would inspire me to donate money to his campaign, except he doesn't need it. Minutemen are vigilante scum, so no problem there. Making fun of these buffoons is awesome. Too bad some the more polite congressmen didn't do this kind of stuff to the teabaggers accusing Obama of being socialist and other such shite.

All this and he's an atheist also. :cool:

[Normal Phase]

Well, we could cut costs on that wall if we got some cheap labor to build it.

I see what you did there.

[Cisco]

Sorry, not (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/illegal) true (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/illegal).
Contrary to popular belief, the dictionary is not the be-all, end-all of proper English.

"The job of the dictionary is to document the language as it's used." -Merriam-Webster editor.

It's not our fault that fucktards misuse the language in pursuit of denigrating an entire class (and let's face it, race) of people.

[Clothahump]

You have no idea who these trigger-happy yahoos even are, do you?

BTW, where did your ancestors (or you) come from?

There are no trigger-happy yahoos. Stark was just being an asshole with his brain-damaged comments about the Minutemen.

And what does it matter where my ancestors came from? We're talking about here and now, not 400 years ago.

[Clothahump]

We should all stop for a moment and reflect on how utterly and amazingly stupid and uninformed Clothahump is.

Okay? Everyone done? Good, you may now resume the thread.
No, actually, Lobo, you should all stop for a moment and kiss my ass.

I posted a thread about Stark acting like an idiot. It happened. There's no denying it - he was stupid enough to do it and be videoed while he did it. And I was stupid enough to think that there still might be a few non-brain damaged people left here on the Dope. Boy, was I ever wrong about that, and I'll freely admit it.

[ElvisL1ves]

There are no trigger-happy yahoos.Vigilante groups are that pretty much by definition.

And what does it matter where my ancestors came from? We're talking about here and now, not 400 years ago.It matters in terms of demonstrating your actual understanding of American values (remember those?). Unfortunately, you have proven that to be as minimal as your understanding of the facts of American history. It might help if you'd turn Hannity off once in a while.

[Lobohan]

No, actually, Lobo, you should all stop for a moment and kiss my ass.Present the rump. Then based on my assessment of its kissability, I will render my verdict.

[The Second Stone]

No, actually, Lobo, you should all stop for a moment and kiss my ass.

I posted a thread about Stark acting like an idiot. It happened. There's no denying it - he was stupid enough to do it and be videoed while he did it. And I was stupid enough to think that there still might be a few non-brain damaged people left here on the Dope. Boy, was I ever wrong about that, and I'll freely admit it.

Well, in a battle of wits between you and Stark, I'll take Stark and give you three to one odds.

[suranyi]

No, actually, Lobo, you should all stop for a moment and kiss my ass.

I posted a thread about Stark acting like an idiot. It happened. There's no denying it - he was stupid enough to do it and be videoed while he did it. And I was stupid enough to think that there still might be a few non-brain damaged people left here on the Dope. Boy, was I ever wrong about that, and I'll freely admit it.

As I said, I live in his congressional district.

There is no chance he will be defeated in November. That's why he can afford to be so cocky.

And, as I also said, this is not even the most liberal congressional district in California. It's pretty run-of-the-mill, actually. It's just that there are huge numbers of people here that simply won't vote Republican under any circumstances.

[magellan01]

Wow. I really am surprised that a congressman would take the tone with people. He's answerable to the people. What a dick. And I'd feel the same way if the shoe was on the other foot and a Rep. rep was treating people questioning him, say, on abortion.

I'm also quite surprised that many of the liberal posters here seem to think his performance is fine. another "wow".

[Voyager]

Wow. I really am surprised that a congressman would take the tone with people. He's answerable to the people. What a dick. And I'd feel the same way if the shoe was on the other foot and a Rep. rep was treating people questioning him, say, on abortion.

I'm also quite surprised that many of the liberal posters here seem to think his performance is fine. another "wow".

Hey, if a Republican congressman got all snarky with some idiot who said power to the people and that we should do away with corporations, I'd be all for it. And, as mentioned, politically speaking he'll get a lot more votes making fun of a Minuteman than being polite to him. Stark doesn't suffer fools gladly - I'm glad someone doesn't.

[Darryl Lict]

Mine too. Plus, we have a very diverse population, with the biggest Afghan population in the US - and some awesome groceries.

This thread would inspire me to donate money to his campaign, except he doesn't need it. Minutemen are vigilante scum, so no problem there. Making fun of these buffoons is awesome. Too bad some the more polite congressmen didn't do this kind of stuff to the teabaggers accusing Obama of being socialist and other such shite.

All this and he's an atheist also. :cool:
Yup, Pete Stark is a hero to me. He's got honest convictions and says what he means. I'm a patriot just like him.

[Monty]

This pompous jackass is a walking, talking argument in favor of term limits. I hope the citizens of California remember this piece of idiocy (http://indyposted.com/30024/california-congressman-pete-stark-sneers-at-constituents-video/) when his next election comes around.

Hey! Don't be blaming all of us Californians for that moron. He's the rep only for the 13th District.

[Rhythmdvl]

Hey, if a Republican congressman got all snarky with some idiot who said power to the people and that we should do away with corporations, I'd be all for it.

This needs to be a movement.

[BobLibDem]

Present the rump.

Now I have this mental image of drill sergeant:
"Present....rump! Right shoulder......rump!"

[jayjay]

Wow. I really am surprised that a congressman would take the tone with people. He's answerable to the people. What a dick. And I'd feel the same way if the shoe was on the other foot and a Rep. rep was treating people questioning him, say, on abortion.

I'm also quite surprised that many of the liberal posters here seem to think his performance is fine. another "wow".

The Minutemen are no different than the KKK or Christian Identity. Any Congressman who actually treats any of those groups politely loses my vote. Not that it matters, since I'm not in Stark's district, but still...

[ElvisL1ves]

Wow. I really am surprised that a congressman would take the tone with people. He's answerable to the people."People" /= "The People". He's answerable to the aggregate of all the people in his district, and less directly to the aggregate of the nation's people. Not to every single individual, and especially not to the nutcases whose own actions and statements leading to Stark's comments are pointedly missing.

A rep's responsibility to The People certainly requires dismissing and even disparaging some people. Perhaps a moment's contemplation would make you realize that, too.

[Really Not All That Bright]

In fairness, "our borders are secure" was an idiotic thing to say.

[jayjay]

In fairness, "our borders are secure" was an idiotic thing to say.

How about "Our borders are as secure as we can get them without turning the entire thing from the Pacific to the Gulf of Mexico into a new Maginot Line"?

[Death of Rats]

That would require these yahoos to know what the hell the Maginot Line is and then you would completely lose them because it turned out to be French.

[ElvisL1ves]

Some perspective on "serving the people" (bolding added): (http://www.newportindependent.com/opinions/columnists/x1328225419/Kent-Bush-Republicans-are-lucky-ones-right-now)

But even better than a Republican telling the tea partiers to enjoy their 15 minutes of fame is a California Democrat mocking the Minutemen.

The Minutemen take an unhealthy interest in border security. Despite the fact that there are twice as many border guards now than a decade ago, it isn't enough to completely stop illegal immigration.

So the Minutemen have followed Stark around to all of his town hall meetings and asked the same questions repeatedly.

Stark was fed up and he let it show.

"The Minutemen have something to say?" Stark asked. "Who are you going to kill today?"

Somehow, the belligerent border babysitters took offense to this question. In response to the response to his response to the question, Stark said he knew the man who brought up the topic very well and that the grass roots movement against him was from someone else's backyard - not his own.

"This guy has been at every one of my town meetings," Stark said. "He's a regular. I do recognize him. I didn't mind needling him a bit. We're getting hundreds of calls, none of them from the district, I might add."
Stark said he believes those callers are simply people who hate others who "speak with an accent."

"It's a xenophobic issue," Stark said. "It doesn't differ much in Florida where they're fearful of people from Haiti or Cuba, or New York where there's a huge Puerto Rican population - and they're citizens."

Of course, the Minutemen have a bigger problem with illegal immigration than with U.S. citizens who may roll their R's.

Their methods are extreme and often cross the line of acceptable behavior. But for a Congressman to allow himself to engage in such an uncivil debate shows that his patience has worn thin.

It is a sign of the times.

With so much anti-establishment sentiment and the polarization and radicalization of political activists, more and more elected officials will find themselves growing tired of fighting the daily battle against the new not-so-silent minorities in the political process.

Beck didn't tell you about that part, did he, Humpy?

[Steve MB]

He's answerable to the people.

Sounds like Stark is a true conservative:

Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays instead of serving you if he sacrifices it to your opinion.

[Steve MB]

Now I have this mental image of drill sergeant:
"Present....rump! Right shoulder......rump!"

"See, I told you this was going to happen if they got rid of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'...." :p

[Really Not All That Bright]

How about "Our borders are as secure as we can get them without turning the entire thing from the Pacific to the Gulf of Mexico into a new Maginot Line"?
Well, won't the Mexicans just cut through Belgium?

[descamisado]

That would require these yahoos to know what the hell the Maginot Line is and then you would completely lose them because it turned out to be French.When did this turn into a discussion of Toni Morrison characters?

[Rhythmdvl]

Some perspective on "serving the people" (bolding added): (http://www.newportindependent.com/opinions/columnists/x1328225419/Kent-Bush-Republicans-are-lucky-ones-right-now)"We're getting hundreds of calls, none of them from the district, I might add."

Sounds like someone's office needs a visit from an intrepid documentarian ... maybe someone from WND or Breitbart perhaps? Dressed and ready to go to a costume party later? Any volunteers? We're waiting tap ... tap ... tap ...

[Vinyl Turnip]

Contrary to popular belief, the dictionary is not the be-all, end-all of proper English.

"The job of the dictionary is to document the language as it's used." -Merriam-Webster editor.

It's not our fault that fucktards misuse the language in pursuit of denigrating an entire class (and let's face it, race) of people.

I'm aware that many people don't like it and think that it's a derogatory term. Nonetheless, as the m-w.com entry shows, it's been used as a noun since at least 1939.

I personally think the hyperbolic indignation over its use is a semantic red herring that does no particular favors for illegal immigrants or their advocates. Of the many problems to be solved regarding immigrants and how they're treated, the favored choice of noun ranks near the bottom of the list---- but being low-hanging fruit, makes a convenient (if not especially constructive) target.

[kaylasdad99]

How about "Our borders are as secure as we can get them without turning the entire thing from the Pacific to the Gulf of Mexico into a new Maginot Line"?

Well, won't the Mexicans just cut through Belgium?Yabbut, I heard there was some talk lately of letting Belgium cease to exist. If they time it just right, them Mess'cans'll just vanish inta thin air!

[Biffy the Elephant Shrew]

Our language has no plural form for adjectives. "Illegals" is not a valid word in our language.

Q.E.D.

He learned this while studying for finals.

[kaylasdad99]

I'm aware that many people don't like it and think that it's a derogatory term.worse than derogatory, dehumanizing. Nonetheless, as the m-w.com entry shows, it's been used as a noun since at least 1939.Then it's high time the lexicographers stopped enabling the pigfuckers who insist on using it that way. Label it as [usu. considered vulgar].I personally think the hyperbolic indignation over its use is a semantic red herring that does no particular favors for illegal immigrants or their advocates. Of the many problems to be solved regarding immigrants and how they're treated, the favored choice of noun ranks near the bottom of the list---- but being low-hanging fruit, makes a convenient (if not especially constructive) target.Noted.

[Cisco]

I'm aware that many people don't like it and think that it's a derogatory term. Nonetheless, as the m-w.com entry shows, it's been used as a noun since at least 1939.

I personally think the hyperbolic indignation over its use is a semantic red herring that does no particular favors for illegal immigrants or their advocates. Of the many problems to be solved regarding immigrants and how they're treated, the favored choice of noun ranks near the bottom of the list---- but being low-hanging fruit, makes a convenient (if not especially constructive) target.
I bet if we started referring to everyone who got a speeding ticket, or jaywalked, or took a hit off pot, or set off fireworks in the wrong place "an illegal," people would suddenly have a problem with it. Because white people do that stuff.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Contrary to popular belief, the dictionary is not the be-all, end-all of proper English.

"The job of the dictionary is to document the language as it's used." -Merriam-Webster editor.
That is the opinion of a Merriam-Webster editor - and one largely unshared by dictionary publishers not named Random House.

[Captain Midnight]

Pete Stark's penis resembles a Taco Bell Burrito with cheese!

[thelurkinghorror]

Pete Stark is a frickin' idiot, but not for this reason. He's rather typical of a career politician, who cares more about helping himself than his constituents. The outburst in the OP is not the first time he's done something like that. I am somewhat glad that he's not my representative anymore, although I may have traded him for a bigger idiot.

[Cisco]

That is the opinion of a Merriam-Webster editor
Yeah, maybe, but it's an opinion I give far more weight to on this subject than the opinion of anyone here.

[Death of Rats]

I like that he is willing to stand up to morons. I would happily trade Rep. Steve King and Sen. Chuck Grassley for him.


Of course, anymore,I would trade them for a box of Cheez-doodles.

[Condescending Robot]

In fairness, "our borders are secure" was an idiotic thing to say.

I don't think China or Iran could roll a tank across either US border without encountering some serious and immediate resistance. Our borders are secure for any correct usage of the word "secure."

What they are not is magically repellent to nonwhite people who want to work in the U.S., which is A-OK with me.

[Really Not All That Bright]

No, they really aren't, regardless of whether you think illegal immigration is a Big Deal or not (I don't).
se·cure
/sɪˈkyʊər/ [si-kyoor] -cur·er, -cur·est, verb, -cured, -cur·ing.

–adjective

1. free from or not exposed to danger or harm; safe.
2. dependable; firm; not liable to fail, yield, become displaced, etc., as a support or a fastening: The building was secure, even in an earthquake.
3. affording safety, as a place: He needed a secure hideout.
4. in safe custody or keeping: Here in the vault the necklace was secure.
5. free from care; without anxiety: emotionally secure.
6. firmly established, as a relationship or reputation: He earned a secure place among the baseball immortals.
7. sure; certain; assured: secure of victory; secure in religious belief.
8. safe from penetration or interception by unauthorized persons: secure radio communications between army units.
9. Archaic . overconfident.

[Spiff]

The Minutemen are no different than the KKK or Christian Identity. Any Congressman who actually treats any of those groups politely loses my vote. Not that it matters, since I'm not in Stark's district, but still...My sentiments exactly.

[gonzomax]

You can not secure the borders. You can stop the companies from hiring illegals. That is doable. A 1200 mile long fence that is impossible to beat is also impossible to build. Then they can use boats to go around it anyway. You can stop companies from hiring them therefore ending the reason to jump the border.

[NurseCarmen]

I just wanted to revive this just long enough to show how effective a twenty foot tall fence is.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dc9_1279058187

[tagos]

I just wanted to revive this just long enough to show how effective a twenty foot tall fence is.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dc9_1279058187

Dear God. Once the Latin American Newton comes along and invents the 'ladder' you American honkies are just doomed.

A 1200 mile moat with jaw to tail crocodiles should do it.

[Tom Scud]

In fairness, "our borders are secure" was an idiotic thing to say.

What hostile army is likely to invade?

[Really Not All That Bright]

Asked and answered.

[Drunky Smurf]

What hostile army is likely to invade?

The Mexican military is not invading but they are aiding drug smugglers.

This video shows the military on American soil.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c946b529e1

This video is of a reporter and a guy from the National Border Council saying the military is aiding drug smugglers.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=02c_1204722898

[Voyager]

The Mexican military is corrupt? Oh no, get me my smelling salts! I'm about to faint from the shock of it.

If they think a border fence is going to slow down drug smugglers, they are loony. They seem to do quite well in getting stuff into Florida which has no border with foreign countries, not counting Alabama. And sure, the average smuggler is going to make his shipment of weed inconspicuous by smuggling it along with a dozen people.

[BrainGlutton]

A study by an anti-immigration organization finds that illegal immigration costs money? Shocking!

SourceWatch page (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Center_For_Immigration_Studies) on the Center for Immigration Studies:

The Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) is an independent, non-partisan, non-profit research organization founded in 1985. It is the nation's only think tank devoted exclusively to research and policy analysis of the economic, social, demographic, fiscal, and other impacts of immigration on the United States.
Source: http://www.cis.org/aboutcis.html

WARNING: This center is actually a think tank directly connected to the anti-immigration advocacy group FAIR (Federation for American Immigration Reform) and is aligned with the conservative magazine National Review. "CIS has also been critiqued as being part of a network of anti-immigrant groups that cater to a white supremacist constituency by right-wing economic libertarians who believe in the benefits of mass and unfettered immigration." See http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1452.html

[Hyperelastic]

I bet if we started referring to everyone who got a speeding ticket, or jaywalked, or took a hit off pot, or set off fireworks in the wrong place "an illegal," people would suddenly have a problem with it. Because white people do that stuff.

I suppose a budding English professor like yourself, interested as you are in the fine points of language, uses the correct legal term, which is of course "illegal alien." Or do you just cut to the chase and call them "future Democrats"?

[Cisco]

I suppose a budding English professor like yourself, interested as you are in the fine points of language, uses the correct legal term, which is of course "illegal alien." Or do you just cut to the chase and call them "future Democrats"?

Who said anything about the correct legal term? I don't give one damn about laws that I believe to be morally wrong. We all get to choose how to use language in the way that we feel best represents our thoughts and feelings. Since I have Zero problem with what they're doing and wish with all my heart that it was legal, I prefer: People. Human. Migrant.

I guess if I had to be more clear in some case, I don't mind the term undocumented immigrant. I don't really like the term alien, especially in this case where the average Mexican almost certainly has deeper ancestral roots in this land than the average Anglo-American.

[Really Not All That Bright]

I suppose a budding English professor like yourself, interested as you are in the fine points of language, uses the correct legal term, which is of course "illegal alien." Or do you just cut to the chase and call them "future Democrats"?
The correct legal term is undocumented worker or undocumented alien, actually.

[gonzomax]

That's still cheaper than the cost of having illegals flood across the border.

This is an old study from 2003. I can only imagine that the costs have gone higher. Your estimate is a bargain compared to the existing costs.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

And the Border Fence Project (http://www.borderfenceproject.com/) is currently building new fencing at $5 per foot.

It is not cheaper if it does not work. They have built lots of tunnels in the past. But, most come over in cars and trucks through the borders. So a wall is just a feelgood ,that wont work.
Want to stop illegal immigration? Go to companies that hire them and severely punish them. They hire people without paperwork, that don't speak English and pay them below minimum wage. If there are no jobs for them, they wont come here.

[Clothahump]

Some perspective on "serving the people" (bolding added): (http://www.newportindependent.com/opinions/columnists/x1328225419/Kent-Bush-Republicans-are-lucky-ones-right-now)
...snip...
Beck didn't tell you about that part, did he, Humpy?

Doesn't matter whether the guy was a total stranger or someone Stark knew. Stark was an asshole from start to finish in that entire exchange.

[jayjay]

Doesn't matter whether the guy was a total stranger or someone Stark knew. Stark was an asshole from start to finish in that entire exchange.

Like I said, I'll cheer him on and contribute to his campaign every time he disses a Minuteman, a KKKer or a Christian Identity asshole.

[magellan01]

Like I said, I'll cheer him on and contribute to his campaign every time he disses a Minuteman, a KKKer or a Christian Identity asshole.

Ha. You're willingness—no, desire—to equate the KKK with those other two groups just shows that you can't be objective. It's imbecilic. Both comical and sad.

[jayjay]

Ha. You're willingness—no, desire—to equate the KKK with those other two groups just shows that you can't be objective. It's imbecilic. Both comical and sad.

Okay...explain to me how the Minutemen and Christian Identity are not equivalent to the KKK.

[thelurkinghorror]

Ha. You're willingness—no, desire—to equate the KKK with those other two groups just shows that you can't be objective. It's imbecilic. Both comical and sad.

I wouldn't go as far to compare the three, but is there a typo in your post? Did you mean to say Minutemen? Because the implication is that you think Christian Identity is a good thing? Or KKK is good and the other two are bad?

One main difference is that the Minutemen haven't committed any acts of terrorism (some of you may say yet...)

[magellan01]

Okay...explain to me how the Minutemen and Christian Identity are not equivalent to the KKK.

I wouldn't go as far to compare the three, but is there a typo in your post? Did you mean to say Minutemen? Because the implication is that you think Christian Identity is a good thing? Or KKK is good and the other two are bad?

One main difference is that the Minutemen haven't committed any acts of terrorism (some of you may say yet...)

I shouldn't have included "Christian Identity" in my response by saying "two groups". It's too amorphous and there are indeed some in that group just as bad as the KKK. My objection is jayjay's likening the Minutemen with the KKK. The latter group was a bunch of vile, ignorant, white supremacist murderers. The Minutemen are none of those things. They are ordinary Americans volunteering to help our government do a job that is constitutionally mandated. They should receive thanks and commendations, not disrespect. And every one of them would rather spend their time going about their lives rather than sitting watch in a dessert.

[jayjay]

I shouldn't have included "Christian Identity" in my response by saying "two groups". It's too amorphous and there are indeed some in that group just as bad as the KKK. My objection is jayjay's likening the Minutemen with the KKK. The latter group was a bunch of vile, ignorant, white supremacist murderers. The Minutemen are none of those things. They are ordinary Americans volunteering to help our government do a job that is constitutionally mandated. They should receive thanks and commendations, not disrespect. And every one of them would rather spend their time going about their lives rather than sitting watch in a dessert.

There aren't enough rolleyes.

They're a bunch of ignorant bigots who are just looking for a chance to shoot a few beaners in the back and not go to jail for it.

[magellan01]

There aren't enough rolleyes.

They're a bunch of ignorant bigots who are just looking for a chance to shoot a few beaners in the back and not go to jail for it.

:rolleyes: So, with all the Minutemen down there for all these months/years, they've not found the chance. Seems like they're not very good at either finding them or shooting them. If there weren't enough rolleyes before, you just made each one as valuable as the Hope Diamond. Especially since I just used the last one.

[Measure for Measure]

In fairness, "our borders are secure" was an idiotic thing to say.Er... really? Very few borders are secure from smuggling. Many borders are secure from invasion.

Calling the US border "Insecure" is preposterous, grist for hysterics. News flash: the US safe from invasion from the Mexican army. No sovereign nation is immune to smuggling, North Korea included. It's just that North Korea prefers to export people and import goods to and from China, rather than the opposite.

Kudos to Pete Stark for mocking these crazies. If he wants to make fun of the International Marxist Tendency or the Freedom Club that would be ok with me as well. So, with all the Minutemen down there for all these months/years, they've not found the chance. Seems like they're not very good at either finding them or shooting them. Give 'em time. Jason "J.T." Ready, a big supporter of the National Socialist Movement, "an organization that believes only non-Jewish, white heterosexuals should be American citizens and that everyone who isn't white should leave the country "peacefully or by force."" -- well his group hasn't been patrolling the Arizona desert for too long. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gI9VGR-rYGUBVsCKwBH-s8Rv11qAD9H0TLAO3 Personally, I have a problem with that organization.

[Measure for Measure]

Want to stop illegal immigration? Go to companies that hire them and severely punish them. They hire people without paperwork, that don't speak English and pay them below minimum wage. If there are no jobs for them, they wont come here. Somehow, I doubt whether the farm lobby would go along with that plan.

I think we should build a $100 gazillion wall and stock the Rio Grande with piranha and laser-guided sharks. It wouldn't do squat about illegal immigration, but it would be great for the economy.