dissing Willy Wonka... them's fight'n words!

[dewt]

When people go around saying things like this:
He's a sadistic, manipulative EVIL little psychopath.

Someone's gotta stand up and say something. Cause that's just wrong you monkey mongrel snout-bagger. What- just because he doesn't cater to these self-centered snivling bivlets you call him EVIL? You're a bleeding-heart Liberal aren't you, you goat-felching, arrow-fletching, bug-fuggeure? :: rolls up sleeves :: Well, I've had it!!! You can advocate any kind of pathopathetic pissant parenting plan you propose, but my man Will lets these selfish snot snouted sirelings face the consequences of their bastardly behaviour. Nothing psychotic about that.

[dewt]

eh-heheheheheh...

here's a link (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=1080852#post1080852)

er... sorry

[BoBettie]

He's completely evil. I'm 30 years old, and Willy Wonka still scares the shit out of me. All his weird concoctions and machines making those bizzare noises. Those poor little people all painted orange. His habit of talking normally then SCREAMING INSANELY.

Hold me.

Zette

[Typo Negative]

That's my 5 yr old nephew's favorate film. He loves the oompa loompas(sp).

[broccoli!]

Grunka. -lunka, grunka-innnn-gredient
if. you are wise. you won't askaboutthescretingredient

Sorry, Futurama just had the worlds greatest spoof on Willy Wonka in their "Slurm" episode... But I Gots to agree that putting down then man is just a no-no. You better watch out, you non-wonka wanna be wannabe's - Wonka's Candy'll hit you sooo haaard, you're kids'll be born bruised! (I think it's the MDMA in it).

Well, back to work.
(punk snot dead,
broccoli!)

[struuter]

Hmmph. I learned some serious lessons about building character from Willy when I was a kid. And any time one of my kids starts to throw a fit about something, one of the others will start singing,
"What do you get when your kid is a...BRAT?"

It's as important a message about responsible parenting as anything else. And it's fun.

But if you don't like it, I'd suggest steering clear of anything else written by Roald Dahl. Willy might just be one of his milder characters.
I'll shut up now.

[c_goat]

FINE THEN!

Gene Wilder is a sadistic, manipulative EVIL little psychopath.

[Cartooniverse]

There's a lot of there there. I read the book, after seeing the movie of course. The film had a lot of threat to it, but nothing compared to the book.

Fear and violence is a common theme in Dahl's stoies, as is
Evident Here In This Spoiler Of A Short Story By Roald Dahl (http://www.roalddahlfans.com/shortstories/manf.htm#plot).

His imagination rivals that of Vonnegut. His life was more than a bit disturbing, especially His School Years (http://www.roalddahlfans.com/mydahlbio.htm).

Cartooniverse

[don Jaime]

I have to admire a man who has encouraged people to eat Nerds. :D

[Felice]

Originally posted by c_goat
FINE THEN!

Gene Wilder is a sadistic, manipulative EVIL little psychopath.

Uh....how do you figure? Gene Wilder is an actor. Pretty nice guy, from all I've read about him.

[c_goat]

I was just being stupid. Looks like I succeeded too :). I don't really think that about him.

[dewt]

Originally posted by c_goat
FINE THEN!

Gene Wilder is a sadistic, manipulative EVIL little psychopath.


Oh, well... that's ok then.

[Freudian Slit]

Roald Dahl is a disturbing writer guy but I love him for it.

But in the book, Willy Wonka is always experimenting on his oompa loompas. He "rescues" them and then does horrible things to them. Like makes them eat the gum, and drink the fizzy lifting stuff- things that he forbade his visitors from doing when they came to the factory. Not such a nice kind guy anymore, huh? It was benevolent of him to give the factory to young Charlie but it makes me wonder...did Willy Wonka believe in paying his Oompa Loompas a minimum wage?

[lucie]

Woo-hoo! Gene Wilder as Willy Wonka was one of my earliest crushes. I love the crazy bastard. The rest of the movie was a bore.

Heard rumors of a remake that would be more in line with the Dahl original. I vote for Geoffrey Rush as Wonka in a production directed by Tim Burton. Now that would be Dahl.

[c_goat]

Originally posted by Zoggie
...did Willy Wonka believe in paying his Oompa Loompas a minimum wage?

I thought they were slaves? He "saved" them from being eaten by the horrible monsters in oompa-loompa land and now they must serve him or go back to oompa-loompa land to be eaten. I'm against the persecution of oompa-loompas.

[Lemur866]

Um, Wonka pays the Oompa-Loompas in the currency they desire most: Cocao beans. Yes, just like the ancient Aztecs, the Oompa-Loompas consider cocoa beans to be the most valuable substance in the universe.

[PunditLisa]

Willie Wonka is an angel compared to Grandpa. I mean, he's bed-ridden for a decade, relying on Charlie's long-suffering mother to do all the freakin' work. His grandson wins a fabulous tour and LO AND BEHOLD Grandpa *discovers* he isn't crippled after all. Soon the freeloader is up DANCING around the room.

Fucking ingrate. I kept wishing WW to beat the holy snot out of him.

[broccoli!]

Forget Geoffrey Rush! I'm wanting Gary Oldman as the new Wonka!

...or Norm MacDonald acting like Burt Reynolds acting like Willy Wonka... I can see it now... "Yeah, Willy Wonka... that's a funny name. Hey look at my big hat... that's funny.. it's an oversised hat."

[Gsprowl]

This is my first time here but you have picked a subject very dear to me. First, this is Gene Wilders best movie ever, well besides Frankenstein. Second, I agree that Grandpa was pulling one over on the family the whole time but i wonder about the sleeping arangements they hadd, Hmmm The most important thing if you really want to appreciate try it with halucinating drugs. I did that alot when i was younger and i had some of the best times of my ife with that movie. And Dr. seuss also

[voguevixen]

Originally posted by broccoli!
...or Norm MacDonald acting like Burt Reynolds acting like Willy Wonka... I can see it now... "Yeah, Willy Wonka... that's a funny name. Hey look at my big hat... that's funny.. it's an oversised hat."

*SNORT*! Oh Christ on a Moped, broccoli! I haven't laughed that hard in months. You left out the part about hurrying up and making the candy, so he could get to the dirty, dirty sex, though. :D

[Helen's Eidolon]

Everything by Roald Dahl is disturbing and scary! Did anyone here read "The Wonderful Story of Henry Sugar"? That freaked the HELL out of me as a kid!

And all of the adults in Dahl's stories are twisted and evil. *shudders*

[BunnyGirl]

Dahl wrote Matilda? What a great movie? Did anyone see it? I was home with nothing to do on a Saturday and caught it - it's fabulous. A little heavy for kids, maybe (some innuendos I don't think they'd understand), but, shoot, what a cool flick.

And can you get any creepier than "James and the Giant Peach"? Wasn't it Tim Burton who directed the animation one they did? Cool, but creepy.

I also read "Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator". Was waiting for the movie on that one.

Guess I'm gonna have to go back and re-read some of those childhood books!

[pldennison]

Originally posted by BunnyGirl
And can you get any creepier than "James and the Giant Peach"? Wasn't it Tim Burton who directed the animation one they did? Cool, but creepy.

Actually, 'twas Henry Selick, who also directed "The Nightmare Before Christmas," produced and written by Burton. Excellent animator.

[Freudian Slit]

Yeah, see. He rescued them and expects them to put up with this crap. For all we know, the Oompa Loompas weren't persecuted. Why do we believe Wonka, anyway? We just met him! He's hardly credible. Of course he would want us to think he's charitable and benevolent.

The Grandpa thing? Hmm. Interesting theory. Crazy thing was how I never thought there was anything the least bit weird about an...octogenarian, was it? (he was 96 in the book but looked considerably younger in the film) rising up and cutting a caper.

Another injustice:
The candy store owner allowing all the upper/middle class kids with plenty of candy money to roam his store, eating lollipops, chocolates, and gummy frogs for free. And singing to them. Then when Charlie comes in later on, he's pretty abrupt with him. Alright, he's not that abrupt, he's pretty nice actually. But still...sort of got to me. That horrible unjust candy store owner! ;)

[OpalCat]

Ok, but what about the part where they're on the chocolate river and they go into that tunnel?! There is a chicken getting its head chopped off! That gave me nightmares for years, and I was afraid to walk down the hallway in our house at night for probably 3 or 4 years.

[Lsura]

Originally posted by LaurAnge
! Did anyone here read "The Wonderful Story of Henry Sugar"?

I read that one, and absolutely loved it.


I despise Willy Wonka and The Chocolate Factory though. I'm 27, and, while I'll watch it if it's on TV, it scares the crap out of me. I used to have nightmares about the Oompah-Loompahs, and the big fan in the ceiling.

[Kricket]

I love this move as do my children. My three year old gets very upset if anyone interupts her viewing.
The first time I watched it with them they thought that it was too cool that mommy was singing and saying all the songs and poems along with WW.
Those children were horrible little monsters. Charlie was the only one who got his ticket honestly, and he had manners! How dare they try to teach children of the 70's morals buy showing that if you are rude, gluttonous, and obnoxious you get what is comming to you.

BTW the woman who played Violet lives in my town now. A few months ago they showed the movie in one of our long forgotten theaters that they reopen on thursdays now for like $2 a show. The only time my kids would have ever been able to see it on the big screen. Myself for that matter since I was born in 71. Couldn't see it since they made a big deal about it and it was jam packed and no way I could take all the kids down in that crowd with one in a wheel chair. They did have Violet down there signing autographs.

[Badtz Maru]

I found out recently that my wife hates the movie, and also hates the fact that every single one of her boyfriends has loved it.

[Dr_Paprika]

You great big greedy nincompoops.
How long can we allow this beast
To gorge and guzzle, sup and feast
On everything he wanted to?
Great Scott! It simply wouldn't do!

[Erika]

I ABSOLUTELY love Willy Wonka and the chocolate factory! And of course it's disturbing! It's supposed to be, at least a bit. But it's a good self-rightous disturbing. I am a huge huge fan.


Yay! I hadn't thought about that movie in a long time. ::smiles::

[OpalCat]

If it weren't for the chicken getting its head cut off, I'd like the movie. Or even if it had been a fake chicken getting its head cut off. I just can't separate the killing of an animal (ok a bird) from the rest of the entertainment of the movie. I am just too bleeding heart I guess.

I loved the book.

[zen101]

I always figured Wonka as having a fractured personality. Actually if you look at the evidence in the book and film it's pretty clear that he was under tremendous strain and became somewhat of a paranoid because of it all. Slugwort and his spies drove him over the brink. The man was indeed a genius in candy as well as applied mechanics (see "WonkaVator") and it has been noted (forgot by whom) the genius and madness often go hand in hand. Read the Glass Elevator for more insight into his kooky mind set.

Mostly though what I got from the film was that Wonka represented the British Impreialist attitude which was at odds with the changing class system within the British Empire. Look at the stereotypical depictions of villains and heroes: Veruca was a snobbish upper class elitist, Augustus was a german pig, Tommy was an americal TV addled hyperactive and wanton fool, Violet was a gum chewing embarrasment, and finally the icon of British heroism Charlie who is orphaned (probably a war orphan) and who's mother works to sustain him and four grandparents. Only true heroes come from the working class.

Also let us not forget the Oompa Lumpas: Complete and utter Wogs. Little people from far away who toil endlessly w/o civil rights but they are happy to do so because in their own native lands there are horrible dangers that the empire...I mean that Wonka must protect them from out of the goodness of his heart. They even sing songs and impart wisdom, thus illustrating the assimilation of alien cultures in the Empire.

I actually did a paper on this for two classes. Creative writing (the assignment was to express a unique concept, and I had never heard anyone else express this idea before) and Political Science (the unit was on propoganda and I did this for additional credit).

[psylocke]

What about 'The witches' with the really nice ladies who get all vile at the annual convention? That pretty much still gives me the shivers when I think about it,especially since the naughty kids who got caught were all turned into mice....I can't believe that THAT escaped the censorships laws at the time , I mean witchcraft,depravity, the suggestion of lesbian orgies etc.
A truly terrifying tale was 'The BFG' who lived with a carnivorous horde of huge cavemen and preyed on small children by snatching them from their beds in the middle of the night.Dahl's adult storied are no less warped like the woman from 'Tales of the Unexpected' who kills her husband with a frozen leg of lamb and then prepares supper for the detective handling the case.Naughty but nice.

[caircair]

You mean it was ROALD DAHL who wrote the leg of lamb murder story? That was my favorite of all favorite Alfred Hitchcock episodes -- Barbara Bel Geddes serving the murder weapon to the police at the end gets me every time!

[caircair]

OOPS! Sent the last post off without this tidbit:

For all his strangeness, Dahl DID see his then-wife, Patricia Neal, through her debilitating stroke. (They did divorce years later, however. A pity, since I am also a Neal fan.)

[Lissa]

. . . and finally the icon of British heroism Charlie who is orphaned (probably a war orphan) and who's mother works to sustain him and four grandparents.

Uhm, how can he be an orphan if he has a mother?

I saw this movie for the first time about a year ago. My first reaction was, "This is NOT a children's movie!" It seemed too creepy and psychadellic for children, especially the freaky tunnel scene.

[Freudian Slit]

If children love it and identify with it so much, how can it not be a children's movie? This film was a staple of my youth, and though I will say horrible things about Mr. Wonka and his vile, non-minimum wage treatment of the Oompa Loompas (think "Fry and the Slurm Factory") I still love the movie. I don't think kids are all that disturbed by it- it's a lot of fun...way more fun than a Disney movie, man. I really don't think it will disturb kids; it wasn't until i was older that i realized the boat ride was supposed to be frightening.

[Anake]

Didn't Roald Dahl write a story about Gremlins that was the basis for the 1984 movie directed by Joe Dante? I would love to read it, because I'm sure it's pretty twisted.

-Anake

[boso4ever]

I could see bringing horrible punishments upon children who are rude, selfish dishonest and gluttinous. Excessive gum-chewing, however, is not really the kind of offence for which a child should be tortured. I have a brother-in-law with a property maintenence business who disagrees, but then he would.

[DigitalMuse]

that movie traumatized me when I was in 1st grade. I still can't watch that movie straight through. I don't remember why, but it really freaked me out

[jab1]

Originally posted by Anake
Didn't Roald Dahl write a story about Gremlins that was the basis for the 1984 movie directed by Joe Dante? I would love to read it, because I'm sure it's pretty twisted.

-Anake
Dahl's very first book for children was entitled The Gremlins-- A Royal Air Force Story (http://www.roalddahlfans.com/books/grem.htm). It was published by Walt Disney, who intended to base an animated cartoon on it, but it was never finished. (My WAG is that making military training films took up too much of the studio's resources. Others say the reasons were political (http://www.users.bigpond.com/kdelarue/1gremlin.htm).) Fewer than 5,000 copies of this book were printed; a mint-condition copy is worth at least $1200. You can read the entire book online beginning here (http://www.roalddahlfans.com/books/gremtext.htm).

At Warner Brothers, Robert Clampett heard about it and made two gremlin cartoons of his own, one that starred Bugs Bunny with one gremlin; the other cartoon featured Hitler against a whole horde of "Gremlins from the Kremlin" (the gremlins all had Russian accents and they were caricatures of the animation staff). I'm guessing the WB cartoons did not violate any copyright laws because pilots had attributed any mechanical faults to the mythical creatures long before Dahl wrote his story.

As for the 1984 movie directed by Joe Dante, it's nothing like Dahl's book at all.

[Some Guy]

Lamb to the Slaughter (http://mbhs.bergtraum.k12.ny.us/cybereng/shorts/lamb.html)

[kaylasdad99]

Zoggie said: The candy store owner allowing all the upper/middle class kids with plenty of candy money to roam his store, eating lollipops, chocolates, and gummy frogs for free. And singing to them.

In my opinion, having to listen to Aubrey Woods sing "The Candy Man" entitles the victims to all the candy they can eae and carry home. Plus subsidized psychotherapy for life, or until the trauma has been worked through.

[kaylasdad99]

"eat", not "eae".

sorry.

[Guinastasia]

Originally posted by caircair
You mean it was ROALD DAHL who wrote the leg of lamb murder story? That was my favorite of all favorite Alfred Hitchcock episodes -- Barbara Bel Geddes serving the murder weapon to the police at the end gets me every time!

Miss Ellie killing Jock with a leg of lamb? I can't see it!

LOL...anyhoo, I remember reading that story in 10th grade...hehehehe...

Anyhoo, btw, who ever said Tommy was the tv addict-HELLO!!!
THERE WAS NO TOMMY! IT WAS MIKE TEEVEE!!!!!!

ARGH!!!

Wonka kicks ass! I mean, come ON! The guy makes likable wallpaper and has a river full of chocolate. THAT makes him a genius. Hell, if I ever got rich, I'd make a chocolate river in my house too!

[Lemur866]

OK, I gotta disagree once again about people who claim that Wonka doesn't pay the Oompa-Loompas. READ THE BOOK! He pays them in cacao beans! Fer crying out loud, why won't you people pay attention? You know what happens to little boys and girls who don't pay attention, right?

[Greyson3]

Even though Wonka's factory is brightly colored and full of candy, it's obvious that it is a hub of despair. The Oompa Loompas scurry around like ants. Do you really think they care about cocoa beans? No way. They're slaves, that's all. If they tried to escape it would probably trigger all sorts of nasty fatal traps made out of candy.

Wonka himself hardly even tries to hide his contempt for other humans. He sees children as filthy creatures who will do anything for a taste of sweet, sweet candy. He sees adults as filthy creatures who will do anything for a taste of sweet, sweet money. And he himself thrives on the hopelessness and pain of others. He seems to have planned his whole factory layout with these sinister "tours" in mind. Chutes that go straight to the furnace? Delicious chocolate rapids? A fan right near the flying soda? Come on.

In the end he bequeaths his factory to Charlie and his grandfather in hopes of turning them into twisted creatures like himself, to carry on his dark legacy.

Although none of that explains the whole glass elevator thing. I can't remember what happened after that anyway. Something about buttons and knids and grandpa shrinking into a tot. And the president. I don't think it made much sense in conjunction with the first book.

i liek candy

[Billy Rubin]

I want an Oompa Loompa

b.

[Tars Tarkas]

BTW the woman who played Violet lives in my town now.

Holy hot monkey love!! Another Quad Citian on the SDMB? which one are you from, i'm a rock islander, but am currently working in St. Louis.

oh, and Billy Rubin, when we get home, daddy will buy you an Oompa Loompa.

[Beadalin]

I absolutely adored Charlie and the Chocolate Factopry (the book) for my entire childhood and right on up to now. But I hate the movie. I never did, and still don't, see Willy Wonka as sadistic or mean or even creepy. I think he's delightful. He gives obnoxious children their just des(s)erts, and rewards a good child with an entire magical candy factpry! Oh, the dreams I had about that place! I giggled my whole way through that book, and when I was in 4th grade, read it alound to my little brother, who giggled through it so hard he cried. It was GREAT.

Roald Dahl's other children's stories are also immensely creative and entertaining. The BFG and Matilda are other favorites of mine. Part of what I really enjoy about his stories is that his villians are so very villiany, and you can relate to his heroes, who are always a little off-beat, so well. His adult stories are just as wonderful, though often frightening. He's one of the coolest authors around, in my book.

But holy crap, do I hate that movie.

[Myron Van Horowitzski]

Did anyone read the original book, before they PC'd it in reprints?

The Oompa-Loompas were originally little black Pygmies. The had to redo the illustrations and everything.