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The Facts
07-21-2010, 07:55 PM
This is a thought experiment. Imagine a virus, like ebola, started getting passed among the teabag parties. It was 100% fatal to everyone over the age of 18, but was not contagious, so they did not spread it to other people. So in the period of a couple weeks, all the teabaggers were gone. Wouldn't America be better off?

Some say it would be a bad thing, since there are going to be some doctors and useful people like that among them, but I say this wouldn't be a problem because there would also be less patients, so less need for doctors. The people who are disproportionaly represented in the teabaggers are all useless elements to society: religious idiots, racists, and morons. (I know, I'm repeating myself) If there was some magic way to eliminate the dross from society, that would be a great thing -- wouldn't it?

XT
07-21-2010, 07:58 PM
Imagine if the same thing happened to all the Liberals, or all of the Greens, etc etc. Would America be better off? I suppose it depends on one's perspective and political bent.

Personally, I think America is all about difference, and that our system is healthy because it's open even to the nutballs on either the right or left. Even the Liberals are ok...I suppose...

:p

-XT

The Hamster King
07-21-2010, 08:02 PM
"... it's easy if you try ... ." :D

Seriously, wishing death on a large swath of the populace because you disagree with their political views is a stinky thing to do. I don't want the tea partiers dead ... I want them beaten so soundly at the ballot box that they slink away in shame.

cosmosdan
07-21-2010, 08:06 PM
"... it's easy if you try ... ." :D

Seriously, wishing death on a large swath of the populace because you disagree with their political views is a stinky thing to do. I don't want the tea partiers dead ... I want them beaten so soundly at the ballot box that they slink away in shame.

I want them to wake up and see the bullshit Fox is dishing out. Remaining conservative is fine. Just be a conservative who is not so easily swayed with dishonest bullshit.

Stoneburg
07-21-2010, 08:17 PM
Why death? Why not just imagine they voluntarily moved to an isolated island that was exactly the kind of society they wanted to live in.

XT
07-21-2010, 08:19 PM
Why either? Why not imagine them simply as having a different point of view and seeing if reasoned debate is possible...and compromise? Why does everyone have to think the same or be the same or have the same view point or perspective? Why would that be a good thing?

-XT

BrainGlutton
07-21-2010, 08:19 PM
Seriously, wishing death on a large swath of the populace because you disagree with their political views is a stinky thing to do.

And, like many sins, so terribly, terribly tempting . . . *sigh* . . . :o

Well, I'm sure the Tea Partiers are not immune to said temptation either.

And, FTR, it is a kind of death-wish I have seen expressed openly on both Democratic Underground and Free Republic, but way more often on FR. There's just no comparison.

DigitalC
07-21-2010, 08:32 PM
Why either? Why not imagine them simply as having a different point of view and seeing if reasoned debate is possible...and compromise?

Cause that would be just as ludicrous.

kingbighair
07-21-2010, 08:57 PM
I think one of the funniest things in the past couple years is when the tea party called themselves teabaggers. Pure gold. I find myself using the term from time to time for a bit of comedic relief.

That said, continually calling them teabaggers does not lead to an honest debate, and comes off as pretty childish.

Or is that the point of this thread?

pkbites
07-21-2010, 09:11 PM
This is a thought experiment. Imagine a virus, like ebola, started getting passed among the teabag parties. It was 100% fatal to everyone over the age of 18, but was not contagious, so they did not spread it to other people. So in the period of a couple weeks, all the teabaggers were gone. Wouldn't America be better off?

Some say it would be a bad thing, since there are going to be some doctors and useful people like that among them, but I say this wouldn't be a problem because there would also be less patients, so less need for doctors. The people who are disproportionaly represented in the teabaggers are all useless elements to society: religious idiots, racists, and morons. (I know, I'm repeating myself) If there was some magic way to eliminate the dross from society, that would be a great thing -- wouldn't it?

Imagine if somebody started a similar thread, but instead of teabaggers said blacks or Hispanics. And then went on how, yes a few police officers and useful people like that would be among them, but then there would be less crime and therefor less need for cops.

I wonder how long the Mods would allow such a hateful thread to stay open.

Diogenes the Cynic
07-21-2010, 09:14 PM
It's pretty stupid to try to compare a political group (especially a racist one) to a racial minority.

magellan01
07-21-2010, 09:16 PM
This is a thought experiment. Imagine a virus, like ebola, started getting passed among the teabag parties. It was 100% fatal to everyone over the age of 18, but was not contagious, so they did not spread it to other people. So in the period of a couple weeks, all the teabaggers were gone. Wouldn't America be better off?

Some say it would be a bad thing, since there are going to be some doctors and useful people like that among them, but I say this wouldn't be a problem because there would also be less patients, so less need for doctors. The people who are disproportionaly represented in the teabaggers are all useless elements to society: religious idiots, racists, and morons. (I know, I'm repeating myself) If there was some magic way to eliminate the dross from society, that would be a great thing -- wouldn't it?

Man, you must be really, really afraid of what's coming in November. Well, suck it up, pal, 'cause CHANGE is coming.

Der Trihs
07-21-2010, 09:18 PM
Why either? Why not imagine them simply as having a different point of view and seeing if reasoned debate is possible...and compromise?
Because they are unreasonable, and because compromise with rightwingers doesn't work. The Democrats and now Obama have been making that mistake for years; trying to reason with lunatics and compromise with the uncompromising only leads to disaster.

Diogenes the Cynic
07-21-2010, 09:28 PM
Why either? Why not imagine them simply as having a different point of view and seeing if reasoned debate is possible
Not all viewpoints deserve respect or debate. Teabaggers are basically the Klan. What is there to talk about?

By the way, my answer to the OP is that no, I don't think have the Angel of Death kill them all off in a Passover would make the country better. It's the ideology that has to be defeated, not the people. It's a rump movement that will go the way of 60's segregationists eventually.

Rhythmdvl
07-21-2010, 09:40 PM
I think it would be great if they all got really, really bad gas. Not explosive diarrhea or anything harmful, just nasty, bloaty, stinky, gas. And not the fun kind of farts either, but the no-relief giving kind that makes you wonder if you need an emergency change of underwear.

The only cure would be to actually think about what you're saying, writing on a sign, or chanting. Bleating out engineered marketing slogans or echoing talking points would just make it worse, but taking a moment to reflect on the truthiness of a claim and distinguish between needless fearmongering or whatnot and actual policy discrepancies would offer relief.

Sure, some people would never catch on, and would always regurgitate Rush's or Beck's latest misdirection and tortured logic despite the intestinal disgruntlement. Racists, of course, would never make it out of the bathroom long enough to congregate.

But the throng of conservatives, those whose ideas and principles are sound and whose motivations stem from policy choices rather than vitriolic emotional rampage, would gradually become tamer and more rational in their discourse.

This means, of course, that though Fox news takes a major hit in viewership, the overall goals and aspirations of tea party members actually advance more quickly and more effectively than before--their message is heard, and ideas are actually articulated, not just their silly rhetoric. Since they take the time to listen and process ideas, more compromises are achieved and working together is possible in ways that were never before imaginable.

Sigh.

If only.

Oh, of course the only way for it to really work is if it was contagious and didn't discriminate between political bents.

The Facts
07-21-2010, 09:44 PM
Why either? Why not imagine them simply as having a different point of view and seeing if reasoned debate is possible...and compromise? Why does everyone have to think the same or be the same or have the same view point or perspective? Why would that be a good thing?So if the Nazis were marching, you'd celebrate their "different point of view?" If the Klan was marching down your street, burning crosses and screaming "kill the niggers", you'd try to have reasoned debate?

Kimmy_Gibbler
07-21-2010, 09:46 PM
Not all viewpoints deserve respect or debate. Teabaggers are basically the Klan.

A masterful, if unwitting, object-lesson. "Even stopped clocks" and all that.

Sam Stone
07-21-2010, 09:51 PM
Once again the 'progressives' show that they're anything but.

With all the expressions of intolerance and hatred here, you'd think this is Journolist or something. Someone call Ezra Klein - we've got some new candidates for him.

This thread belongs in the pit.

Diogenes the Cynic
07-21-2010, 09:53 PM
Opinions are not persecuted minorities. Where did conservatives ever get the idea that they are?

tomndebb
07-21-2010, 09:57 PM
Wishing death on groups, particularly when the only point of wishing them dead is to avoid hearing their viewpoints, is dumb.

Calling an entire movement racist when there is little evidence that the movement, as opposed to a few notable members, even cares about race, is dumb.

These are not the only dumb comments, but they are salient.

Since this thread started in the pits and has moved right along, I am going to give it a more appropriate home.

[ /Modding ]

BrainGlutton
07-21-2010, 10:02 PM
Imagine if the same thing happened to all the Liberals, or all of the Greens, etc etc. Would America be better off? I suppose it depends on one's perspective and political bent.

Well, I think it likely that losing the Teabaggers would be less damaging to America's gene-pool, by objective, quantifiable, nonpartisan measures. Completely non-provable WAG, of course. (And really there are no perfectly "nonpartisan" value-free measures of what hereditary characteristics are eugenic or dysgenic, that always implies a value judgment of some kind, but that's another debate . . .)

panache45
07-21-2010, 10:02 PM
The people who are disproportionaly represented in the teabaggers are all useless elements to society: religious idiots, racists, and morons . . .

Uh . . . do you actually have some kind of rational reason to make this statement? I mean, is it actually based on anything factual?

XT
07-21-2010, 10:04 PM
So if the Nazis were marching, you'd celebrate their "different point of view?" If the Klan was marching down your street, burning crosses and screaming "kill the niggers", you'd try to have reasoned debate?

I don't equate 'teabaggers' with Nazis, though obviously you do. To answer your silly question, I'd probably have no more to do with them if they were Nazis than I would if they were Commies. As they are neither, and as they seem to be at least a marginal political force in the US, I'd say that at least trying to reason with them would get you further than simply and childishly wishing they were dead. If nothing else, then having them alive to say stupid shit and to discredit them should have some appeal.

Because they are unreasonable, and because compromise with rightwingers doesn't work. The Democrats and now Obama have been making that mistake for years; trying to reason with lunatics and compromise with the uncompromising only leads to disaster.

Not all viewpoints deserve respect or debate. Teabaggers are basically the Klan. What is there to talk about?

It's ironic that they say similar things about Liberals, no? And in similar over the top ways too. Well...it's ironic to ME, anyway. :p

-XT

Yookeroo
07-21-2010, 10:17 PM
Imagine if somebody started a similar thread, but instead of teabaggers said blacks or Hispanics. And then went on how, yes a few police officers and useful people like that would be among them, but then there would be less crime and therefor less need for cops.

I wonder how long the Mods would allow such a hateful thread to stay open.

This thread is kind of dumb, but...

It's pretty stupid to try to compare a political group (especially a racist one) to a racial minority.

This. Pretty big false equivalency there.

But I love the teabaggers. Their long term effect on the GOP is gonna be a good one....for us liberals. Maybe even short term too. Keep them alive.

magellan01
07-21-2010, 10:33 PM
Uh . . . do you actually have some kind of rational reason to make this statement? I mean, is it actually based on anything factual?

It came from "The Facts". What more do you need?

Der Trihs
07-21-2010, 10:34 PM
It's ironic that they say similar things about Liberals, no? And in similar over the top ways too. Well...it's ironic to ME, anyway. :pClassic right wing garbage. "Oh, they say the same thing about you too" doesn't make them correct. But that's what defenders of the Right always do when someone calls them on their stupidity and evil; they claim a false equality with them and their opponents.

magellan01
07-21-2010, 10:34 PM
This thread is kind of dumb, but...

"Kind of"?!

Diogenes the Cynic
07-21-2010, 10:37 PM
It's ironic that they say similar things about Liberals, no?
No. So does the Klan.

XT
07-21-2010, 10:38 PM
Classic right wing garbage.

Well, you know how us right wingers are, ehe?

But that's what defenders of the Right always do when someone calls them on their stupidity and evil; they claim a false equality with them and their opponents.

I know what you mean. They also start threads concerning their deep fantasies about death to their political opponents, and then other chime in for the circle jerk to demonize their opponents and toss around Godwin-esque statements and...

...Oh...wait!

-XT

Der Trihs
07-21-2010, 10:41 PM
Well, you know how us right wingers are, ehe?You are defending the Right regardless of your own position.

I know what you mean. They also start threads concerning their deep fantasies about death to their political opponents, and then other chime in for the circle jerk to demonize their opponents and toss around Godwin-esque statements and...

...Oh...wait!
No, they actually brandish guns or outright try to kill their opponents.

XT
07-21-2010, 10:42 PM
No. So does the Klan.

Not sure what a Kave Bear Kult has to do with anything but...no? What was the 'no' referring to there? That it's not ironic at all that liberals and conservatives love to bash each other in ridiculous ways? Well, irony is in the eyes of the beholder, I suppose. Or was the 'no' saying that conservatives don't do those sorts of things? Or did the 'no' mean something else? Just curious.

-XT

XT
07-21-2010, 10:44 PM
You are defending the Right regardless of your own position.

Well, I'm certainly not going to be on YOUR side in this sort of discussion! :p

No, they actually brandish guns or outright try to kill their opponents.

Seriously? I didn't know left wingers would even touch guns...

-XT

Diogenes the Cynic
07-21-2010, 10:51 PM
Not sure what a Kave Bear Kult has to do with anything but...no? What was the 'no' referring to there? That it's not ironic at all that liberals and conservatives love to bash each other in ridiculous ways? Well, irony is in the eyes of the beholder, I suppose. Or was the 'no' saying that conservatives don't do those sorts of things? Or did the 'no' mean something else? Just curious.

-XT
I didn'ty say conservatives were racist, I said teabaggers are. They are an extremist hysterical subset of conservatives. I would cite a liberal equivalent, but there isn't one at the moment.

magellan01
07-21-2010, 10:53 PM
I didn'ty say conservatives were racist, I said teabaggers are.

Even the non-white ones?

Diogenes the Cynic
07-21-2010, 10:56 PM
Yes. All four of them.

Der Trihs
07-21-2010, 11:03 PM
Seriously? I didn't know left wingers would even touch guns...You know quite well I was talking about the teabag scum and their violent propensities.

XT
07-21-2010, 11:10 PM
You know quite well I was talking about the teabag scum and their violent propensities.

Certainly I do...it was you posting, after all. ;) I was just riffing off of the literal reading of your post, since it seemed amusing, to me at least. That said, however, I haven't seen much more ACTUAL violence out of 'teabaggers' than I saw out of leftwing loony types during the Bush administration...just similar verbal attacks and venom. To me it's all about oxing gores, and I find it infinitely amusing that the lefties get their panties in a bunch when the right wing comes out with what seems to me to be a mirror image of what they put Bush through (granted, with more reason) during his presidency. Whether the 'teabaggers' will be able to expand their fire and brimstone to appeal to a larger audience is questionable (since, to my biased mind at least, they have a lot less reason to actually be pissed at Obama than the left wingers did against Bush), but time will tell I guess.

In the mean time I have to admit that I'm enjoying the show!

-XT

Diogenes the Cynic
07-21-2010, 11:15 PM
You didn't see war protesters saying Bush wasn't really American, carrying ominously threatening signs, bringing guns to his appearances, threatening to kill his children or openly screaming racist and homophobic profanity at US Congressmen.

XT
07-21-2010, 11:18 PM
You didn't see war protesters saying Bush wasn't really American, carrying ominously threatening signs, bringing guns to his appearances, threatening to kill his children or openly screaming racist and homophobic profanity at US Congressmen

No, I saw them calling him a Nazi, as well as all the other LEFT wing push buttons. Different strokes for different folks, but it all equates to the same thing.

-XT

kidneyfailure
07-21-2010, 11:38 PM
You didn't see war protesters saying Bush wasn't really American, carrying ominously threatening signs, bringing guns to his appearances, threatening to kill his children or openly screaming racist and homophobic profanity at US Congressmen.

Oh, come on...

Now, look, I'm about as left-leaning as is possible without turning into an extremist, but let's be honest here: There were PLENTY of signs with pictures of Bush with bullet holes in his head, Bush with nooses around his neck, and all that type of thing in the recent past. Hell, there was even a movie about him getting assassinated!

The Tea Partiers and right-wing fringe groups are stupid pieces of shit...but so are the left-wing fringe. Let's be honest and admit that, huh?

The Understander
07-21-2010, 11:41 PM
Man, you must be really, really afraid of what's coming in November. Well, suck it up, pal, 'cause CHANGE is coming.

Change? What change?

Either the Republicans will seize the House and Senate, in which case we will get epic gridlocks and endless, pointless, baseless investigations, in which case we basically get status quo... or they won't, but gain some seats, in which case we get status quo.

Looks like same ol', same ol' to me. But enjoy your 2010 midterm. The new Know-Nothings never like to talk about what happens after, say, in 2012. I wonder why? Maybe they're afraid of the end of the Long Count! Which, given the Tea Party's intellectual bankruptcy, would not surprise me in the least.

The Understander
07-21-2010, 11:46 PM
Wishing death on groups, particularly when the only point of wishing them dead is to avoid hearing their viewpoints, is dumb.

Calling an entire movement racist when there is little evidence that the movement, as opposed to a few notable members, even cares about race, is dumb.

These are not the only dumb comments, but they are salient.

Since this thread started in the pits and has moved right along, I am going to give it a more appropriate home.

[ /Modding ]

Good move to put this in the Pit, where it belongs.

Horrible, horrible statement bolded above. Little evidence that the movement cares about race? When two of their major mouthpieces, whom Teabaggers (Don't like that term being used? I cried two tears in a bucket.) Glennandrush, more or less live on race-baiting? Bone in the nose picture? Spitting on black congressmen? (Oh, no video evidence, therefore the Teabaggers are telling the truth? Bite me, bitch.)

Please. Tell that story walking.

BrainGlutton
07-21-2010, 11:56 PM
Seriously? I didn't know left wingers would even touch guns...

-XT

Oh, some of us might . . . Not that you should be sleeping with the lights on or anything, no, no, not at all, that's just silly . . .

BrainGlutton
07-22-2010, 12:00 AM
Oh, come on...

Now, look, I'm about as left-leaning as is possible without turning into an extremist, but let's be honest here: There were PLENTY of signs with pictures of Bush with bullet holes in his head, Bush with nooses around his neck, and all that type of thing in the recent past. Hell, there was even a movie about him getting assassinated!

The Tea Partiers and right-wing fringe groups are stupid pieces of shit...but so are the left-wing fringe. Let's be honest and admit that, huh?

No. The left-wing fringe are intelligent pieces of shit. That's just the difference. ;)

pkbites
07-22-2010, 12:03 AM
It's pretty stupid to try to compare a political group (especially a racist one) to a racial minority.

The mind set is whats important.
The OP wants a segment of the populace to die and go away because he doesn't like them, and then goes on how nice it would be if they were gone. This mind set is no different than that of a klansman or nazi.

Diogenes the Cynic
07-22-2010, 12:06 AM
No, I saw them calling him a Nazi
No, that's teabaggers again.

Diogenes the Cynic
07-22-2010, 12:09 AM
Oh, come on...

Now, look, I'm about as left-leaning as is possible without turning into an extremist, but let's be honest here: There were PLENTY of signs with pictures of Bush with bullet holes in his head, Bush with nooses around his neck, and all that type of thing in the recent past. Hell, there was even a movie about him getting assassinated!
I'll take your word for it, but I nevers aw any signs like that.

The movie did not advocate the assasination of Bush or portray it as justified. It just used it as a premise.

kidneyfailure
07-22-2010, 01:17 AM
I'll take your word for it, but I nevers aw any signs like that

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2009/08/20/media-didnt-care-about-protest-signs-threatening-bush

Enjoy!

Diogenes the Cynic
07-22-2010, 01:58 AM
Newsbusters isn't much of a cite.

YogSosoth
07-22-2010, 02:00 AM
There really is no way for things NOT to get better if all the tea baggers would die off. Fuck them and their hateful shit

Camus
07-22-2010, 03:36 AM
Why either? Why not imagine them simply as having a different point of view and seeing if reasoned debate is possible...and compromise? Why does everyone have to think the same or be the same or have the same view point or perspective? Why would that be a good thing?

-XT

How do you have reasoned debate with people who are either misinformed or not informed at all? Debate relies on pre-existing facts and persuasion, neither of which are useful at all if the other side refuses to acknowledge facts that aren't featured or highlighted on Fox News.

Sam Stone
07-22-2010, 04:19 AM
There really is no way for things NOT to get better if all the tea baggers would die off. Fuck them and their hateful shit

In other words, you want 50 million Americans to die, because they are 'hateful'. Got it. Thanks for the heads-up, Mother Theresa.

BigT
07-22-2010, 04:23 AM
Newsbusters isn't much of a cite.

They source their assertions, something you have been avoiding as of late.

kidneyfailure
07-22-2010, 06:29 AM
Newsbusters isn't much of a cite.

Photographic evidence isn't good enough for you, huh?

DianaG
07-22-2010, 06:42 AM
50 million
Now there's something I'd like a cite for.

fifty-six
07-22-2010, 06:46 AM
I feel the term teabagging is being used n a derogatory fashion. It is a wonderful sexual practice that all can enjoy giving and or receiving.

EvilTOJ
07-22-2010, 08:24 AM
I'm partial to calling it the tea farty (http://teafarty.com/) (warning; immature bathroom humor soundbite).

The Facts
07-22-2010, 08:28 AM
Uh . . . do you actually have some kind of rational reason to make this statement? I mean, is it actually based on anything factual?You don't watch TV do you?

I notice that nobody trying to say that these scum dying off wouldn't be a good thing.


Off to the lab to develop a virus ... lol (maybe)

Cort
07-22-2010, 08:34 AM
I'll take your word for it, but I never saw any signs [wishing death on Bush]


I saw plenty. The 2003-2004 anti-Iraq war protests were filled with people brandishing placards wishing death and disfigurement on President Bush. You couldn't throw a stick in any direction without it hitting someone calling him a Nazi and a terrorist.

I've never been to a tea-party protest but, based on the footage I've seen, it's clear that the number anti-war protestors wishing death on Bush dwarfs the number of tea-partiers wishing death on Obama. That said, there's no doubt that some tea-partiers are making those sorts of statements.

The relevant distinction here, the difference that makes the difference, is that all the hatred and scorn heaped on Bush was deserved. Bush is a lying baby killer cunt war criminal responsible for hundreds of thousands of innocent deaths and if there was any justice in the world then he, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Blair would have been tried in the Hague, strung up from the nearest tree, and their families billed for the cost of the rope. What has Obama done to deserve the level of hatred he receives from the tea-partiers?

Gyrate
07-22-2010, 08:44 AM
I notice that nobody trying to say that these scum dying off wouldn't be a good thing.I am hereby saying this. I am also saying that you are a douche.

Fritz
07-22-2010, 08:55 AM
I saw plenty. The 2003-2004 anti-Iraq war protests were filled with people brandishing placards wishing death and disfigurement on President Bush. You couldn't throw a stick in any direction without it hitting someone calling him a Nazi and a terrorist.

I've never been to a tea-party protest but, based on the footage I've seen, it's clear that the number anti-war protestors wishing death on Bush dwarfs the number of tea-partiers wishing death on Obama. That said, there's no doubt that some tea-partiers are making those sorts of statements.

The relevant distinction here, the difference that makes the difference, is that all the hatred and scorn heaped on Bush was deserved. Bush is a lying baby killer cunt war criminal responsible for hundreds of thousands of innocent deaths and if there was any justice in the world then he, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Blair would have been tried in the Hague, strung up from the nearest tree, and their families billed for the cost of the rope. What has Obama done to deserve the level of hatred he receives from the tea-partiers?
He's black.

Smeghead
07-22-2010, 08:58 AM
I am hereby saying this. I am also saying that you are a douche.

Ditto.

BobLibDem
07-22-2010, 08:59 AM
He's black.

Nailed it. The Teabaggers are all like the drunk in Blazing Saddles: "The president is a n-" DONGGGGGG!

Stoneburg
07-22-2010, 09:11 AM
Why either? Why not imagine them simply as having a different point of view and seeing if reasoned debate is possible...and compromise? Why does everyone have to think the same or be the same or have the same view point or perspective? Why would that be a good thing?

-XT
The debate of whether or not the US would be better off without Teabaggers was derailed because people got hung up on the death bit.

I also think it is relevant to question why killing would be the natural option if you wanted to remove someone. If I would want to discuss how something would look without something else, my first instinct would not be "What if we killed them?". And I really don't want to be in the minority on this ;)

BrainGlutton
07-22-2010, 09:58 AM
Now there's something I'd like a cite for.

From Sasha Abramsky's recent article "Look Ahead in Anger," (http://chronicle.com/article/Look-Ahead-in-Anger/66152/) Chronicle of Higher Education:

A recent poll conducted by AP-GfK has found that 28 to 30 percent of all respondents sympathize with the Tea Party, although another poll, by The New York Times, found that only 18 to 20 percent did so. Whatever the number, clearly many millions of Americans are attracted to the movement.

Sounds like impressive numbers!

Still, of course, bear in mind . . . (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_of_the_Urinal_Deuce)

Kyle: Anybody who thinks 9/11 was a conspiracy is a retard.

Cartman: Oh, really? Well, did you know that over one-fourth of people in America think that 9/11 was a conspiracy? Are you saying that one-fourth of Americans are retards?

Kyle: Yes, I'm saying one-fourth of Americans are retards.

Stan: Yeah, at least one-fourth.

Kyle: Lets take a test sample. (to Cartman) There's 4 of us, you're a retard, and that's one-fourth.

Diogenes the Cynic
07-22-2010, 10:45 AM
In other words, you want 50 million Americans to die, because they are 'hateful'. Got it. Thanks for the heads-up, Mother Theresa.
There aren't 50 million of them.

villa
07-22-2010, 11:40 AM
Seriously? I didn't know left wingers would even touch guns...

-XT

Lots of us. Keep your stinking little right wing paws off mine.

YogSosoth
07-22-2010, 12:02 PM
In other words, you want 50 million Americans to die, because they are 'hateful'. Got it. Thanks for the heads-up, Mother Theresa.

Lives don't have intrinsic meaning or value. If they die, so what? Better for the rest of us

It's fact that they practice and believe in an evil ideology full of hatred and vile shit that, if seperated from politics, would relegate their mob to the lowest of special interest groups like the KKK or NAMBLA. They take pride in their ignorance and believe in a pretty face full of vapid, retarded ideas and react with vehement denial every time that is pointed out to them. Tea Baggers are so stupid they couldn't even pick a name without an obvious sexual connotation. They are a mostly homogenous group of scared white people who have weathered the progress of the 21st century and a black president with all of the stability of a riot. Their leaders call for violence and death, their Congressmen pray to god to smite their enemies, they would rather hurt themselves and the country if only it means a slight diminishment of their political opponents.

So yes, I want them to die. They are nothing more than a lynch mob bound together by shared hatred and fear. They stand for nothing because they've stood for the contrary just a few years into their past. They are rioters given power and they deserve nothing except swift annihilation

Shot From Guns
07-22-2010, 12:09 PM
Imagine if somebody started a similar thread, but instead of teabaggers said blacks or Hispanics.

Race isn't a choice. There are no intrinsic qualities to being Black or Hispanic, other than phenotypic ones. Political ideology, on the other hand, says a hell of a lot about you as a person.

So if the Nazis were marching, you'd celebrate their "different point of view?"

I'd celebrate living in a country where even people who are dead-fucking-wrong have the right to think what they want, and I'd defend their right to think it.

If the Klan was marching down your street, burning crosses and screaming "kill the niggers", you'd try to have reasoned debate?

Now you're getting into the territory of advocating illegal action, which is wrong (and illegal).

Once again the 'progressives' show that they're anything but.

OLO UR NOT TLOLERANT B/C U DON'T TOLERATE MAI INTOLERENS!!!!!111!11 i caut u!!!!!111

Fucking retard.

In other words, you want 50 million Americans to die, because they are 'hateful'.

1.) I highly doubt there are 50 million teabaggers.

2.) Yeah, I'd be cool with that. Of course, I also wish death on the guy who pulls up into the crosswalk at the intersection, and the woman in the elevator who drenched herself in perfume.

Thanks for the heads-up, Mother Theresa.

The old bitch was fine with thousands of children starving to death instead of getting their parents on birth control, wasn't she?

"The president is a n-" DONGGGGGG!

The President is near?!

Joke's on us all--Starving Artist is really Obama.

BobLibDem
07-22-2010, 12:16 PM
The President is near?!

No, dadburnit! The president is a n- DONNNNNNGGGGG!

ElvisL1ves
07-22-2010, 12:45 PM
He's black.

And a Democrat, don't leave that out. Hard to tell which is the more fundamental factor, but ISTM Obama's getting noticeably less visceral hatred than Clinton, so far. Could have something to do with general recognition that the mess we're in is a Republican creation.

Duke
07-22-2010, 12:47 PM
There were PLENTY of signs with pictures of Bush with bullet holes in his head, Bush with nooses around his neck, and all that type of thing in the recent past. Hell, there was even a movie about him getting assassinated!

For the last fucking time, that movie was not made by American liberals, American conservatives, or anybody American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_a_president). It is the false equivalence of false equivalences to drag a foreign-made movie into a discussion about the Tea Party assaults on a sitting American President.

Shot From Guns
07-22-2010, 12:49 PM
ISTM Obama's getting noticeably less visceral hatred than Clinton, so far.

:dubious::dubious::dubious::dubious::dubious:

BobLibDem
07-22-2010, 12:56 PM
And a Democrat, don't leave that out. Hard to tell which is the more fundamental factor, but ISTM Obama's getting noticeably less visceral hatred than Clinton, so far. Could have something to do with general recognition that the mess we're in is a Republican creation.

I don't how you get that impression. Back in Clinton's day, the right wing smear machine was still getting assembled. The internet was a mere shadow of its present self. There weren't massive anti-Clinton rallies and the Republicans weren't quite so much in lockstep opposition. I don't recall any astroturf movement in opposition to Clinton or anyone saying he wasn't one of us.

Stoneburg
07-22-2010, 12:56 PM
Would the world be better off without pedophiles? Yes. Do I want to kill all pedophiles. No, because that would be a worse crime. Agreed?

I don't equal Teabaggers (really, shouldn't that be added to the spell check by now?) with pedophiles, I just picked the worst thing that I still wouldn't want to kill. Teabaggers are more like neo-nazis to me. Actually they're pretty much exactly like neo-nazis. Retardedly ignorant angry right wing extremists with a violent streak.

Stoneburg
07-22-2010, 01:00 PM
I don't how you get that impression. Back in Clinton's day, the right wing smear machine was still getting assembled. The internet was a mere shadow of its present self. There weren't massive anti-Clinton rallies and the Republicans weren't quite so much in lockstep opposition. I don't recall any astroturf movement in opposition to Clinton or anyone saying he wasn't one of us.
Are you saying that if he knew what was going to happen, Gore wouldn't have invented the internet?

XT
07-22-2010, 01:14 PM
Lots of us. Keep your stinking little right wing paws off mine.

Leaving aside of what orientation my paws are or aren't, I'd say you have more to worry about, gun grabbing wise, from the left than from the right, ehe? :p

How do you have reasoned debate with people who are either misinformed or not informed at all? Debate relies on pre-existing facts and persuasion, neither of which are useful at all if the other side refuses to acknowledge facts that aren't featured or highlighted on Fox News.

IOW, 'debate' for you means that both sides think exactly the same way, and if they don't, or if they get their news from a source no approved by you, then no 'debate' is possible.

Can you get reasoned debate from all 'teabaggers'? Of course not...maybe not even most. However, you guys are all painting with ridiculously broad brushes in this thread, as if every 'teabagger' is in lock step with every other one, all being racist monsters, ignorant AND stupid, neo-Nazis and probably duck fucking closet homosexuals to boot. You are demonizing them, in other words, because it makes you feel superior...plus it's so much easier to dismiss someone if you think of them the way you are thinking of them.

Here's the irony...conservatives have been doing the same thing about liberals (and greens, and lefties, etc etc) for decades now. Many of them feel exactly the same way about YOU and YOU feel about THEM. And so, our political system has gotten to the point where partisan politics is the be all and end all...there IS no debate, because both sides have build constructs and pigeon-holes for their opposition, and thus can simply dismiss them without thought or bother. Currently the leftwing THINKS it's in ascendancy in the US (and for all I know, they actually are), so they don't think need to bother with those scruffy 'teabaggers' (even the name is derogatory, since while they self selected it the didn't do so in the way it's used now). There is a healthy measure of pay back thinking as well, since the left and 'liberal' has been put down and dismissed in the past, and now that they are on top they are going to get some back.

What's funny, to me at least, is that this is nearly identical to what brought conservative thought to the supposed ascendancy, and is nearly a mirror image (even to the wishful thinking that they would all just die and go away, dismissal of them as drooling idiots in lock step, caricaturization of their supposed positions and stances, etc) of what THEY did when they were on top.

Pride comes before the fall...keep that in mind when the worm turns and those idiots on the right take control again. From my perspective, both the left and right in this country are slowly destroying it, and, from the heart, I say...A pox on BOTH of your houses.

-XT

villa
07-22-2010, 01:17 PM
Leaving aside of what orientation my paws are or aren't, I'd say you have more to worry about, gun grabbing wise, from the left than from the right, ehe? :p



Probably not, speaking for myself. My right to own is pretty safely protected by the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Virginia. Of course, many of the teabaggers and their hateful fellow travellers would like to see me removed from the ranks of people protected by either that document or the federal constitution.

Diogenes the Cynic
07-22-2010, 01:27 PM
Teabaggers are not comparable to liberals or conservatives. They are a just fringe loonies. They don't even really have an articulable ideology or platform. They don't stand FOR anything, they are defined purely by hysterical opposition to Obama. When you get past the racism, the birth certificates, the antichrist paranoia, the Bible thumping, the gun fetishism, the homophobia, etc., there's nothing left. They are nothing but an aggregation of religious and social issue cranks, conspiracy theorists, racists and morons. They do not actually have a platform or a philosophy or a strategy or a solution to anything. Their entire raison d'etre is hating Obama. They don't have any policy proposals or alternate ideas, just personal animosity towards the President.

At least the liberals hated Bush for a REASON.

Duke
07-22-2010, 01:43 PM
Teabaggers are not comparable to liberals or conservatives. They are a just fringe loonies. They don't even really have an articulable ideology or platform. They don't stand FOR anything

Often amusingly so. There's a car I often walk past which has a number of Tea Party-friendly stickers (including one supporting the doomed gubernatorial campaign of Carl "HORSE PORN" Paladino). It's also got one sticker ridiculing global warming activists...and another castigating Big Oil and offshore drilling.

Stoneburg
07-22-2010, 02:03 PM
Often amusingly so. There's a car I often walk past which has a number of Tea Party-friendly stickers (including one supporting the doomed gubernatorial campaign of Carl "HORSE PORN" Paladino). It's also got one sticker ridiculing global warming activists...and another castigating Big Oil and offshore drilling.

Funny and sad at the same time. Is there a smilie for that?


:D + :( = :confused:

BrainGlutton
07-22-2010, 02:05 PM
Race isn't a choice. There are no intrinsic qualities to being Black or Hispanic, other than phenotypic ones. Political ideology, on the other hand, says a hell of a lot about you as a person.

I dunno . . . I think it's largely one of those things about your personality that is shaped by the cultural environment in which you were raised. You can make a conscious break with all that, just like you can break with your background religion, but it ain't easy psychologically. I think most people, even most intelligent people, even most intelligent people seriously interested in politics, are not political intellectuals of any kind and do not examine their own ingrained political assumptions very critically very often.

Shot From Guns
07-22-2010, 02:51 PM
I think most people, even most intelligent people, even most intelligent people seriously interested in politics, are not political intellectuals of any kind and do not examine their own ingrained political assumptions very critically very often.

So? Willful ignorance isn't my fucking problem. And you're treading awfully close to moral relativism there. "It's how they were raised, so it's not their fault." The same argument could be used to excuse owning slaves or FGM.

Smeghead
07-22-2010, 03:01 PM
So yes, I want them to die. They are nothing more than a lynch mob bound together by shared hatred and fear.

"Look, there goes a lynch mob, bent on attacking people based on the ways in which they're different from themselves!"

*Pause*

"Let's kill them!"

BrainGlutton
07-22-2010, 03:04 PM
"Look, there goes a lynch mob, bent on attacking people based on the ways in which they're different from themselves!"

*Pause*

"Let's kill them!"

:dubious: What, without preliminary torture?! Have you no heart?!

ElvisL1ves
07-22-2010, 03:55 PM
I don't how you get that impression. Back in Clinton's day, the right wing smear machine was still getting assembled. The internet was a mere shadow of its present self. There weren't massive anti-Clinton rallies and the Republicans weren't quite so much in lockstep opposition. I don't recall any astroturf movement in opposition to Clinton or anyone saying he wasn't one of us.

There aren't "massive" anti-Obama rallies today. They're pretty sad, really. Other than that, I have to wonder how you could forget the "impeach the communist pervert Clinton as soon as we can find something" movement that Fox, Scaife, and the rest of the RW smear machine, that you claim was "still getting assembled", somehow succeeded with. There were still a few GOPpers in Congress that they hadn't yet intimidated into lockstepping, true, but there are a few today too.

But I really would prefer to have your memories instead of my own.

ElvisL1ves
07-22-2010, 04:00 PM
:dubious::dubious::dubious::dubious::dubious:

How many news shows from that period do you remember that did NOT include the name "Lewinsky"?

pkbites
07-22-2010, 04:09 PM
Political ideology, on the other hand, says a hell of a lot about you as a person.

Do you mean, like, wishing a significantly large group of people who you don't agree with were dead and gone?

Malleus, Incus, Stapes!
07-22-2010, 04:32 PM
Look, can we just agree that idiot extremists are always going to make noise and point their fingers at opponent idiot extremists?

Also, often people in a popular movement don't pay attention to all the fine details of said movement. There are lots of normal, moderate people who support PETA, for example, because hey, they're for animal rights. They've probably never heard the crazy that Ingrid Newkirk preaches. Likewise, there are probably lots of people who think, "Gee, we need a smaller goverment", and so they call themselves Tea Partiers, and they're blissfully ignorant of the stupid going on in their name.

Shot From Guns
07-22-2010, 05:09 PM
How many news shows from that period do you remember that did NOT include the name "Lewinsky"?

They at least waited 'til Clinton did something vaguely improprietous. They didn't immediately start making shit up, e.g., about him being a foreigner.

Do you mean, like, wishing a significantly large group of people who you don't agree with were dead and gone?

I have no problem with you disliking me for loathing humanity. Also, I object to your use of the indefinite article there. I don't wish "a significantly large group of people who [I] don't agree with were dead and gone." I wish all groups of people whom I don't agree with were dead and gone.

Lamar Mundane
07-22-2010, 06:22 PM
I love the teabaggers! Thanks to them, Harry Reid is going to win reelection, something thought impossible just a few moths ago. The same thing is happening in Florida, where it's likely that an independant will win the senate seat who may or may not caucus with the Democrats. Colorado will likely retain the Governorship and a Senate seat in Democratic hands due to teabagger candidates winning in primaries. Hell, the Dems might even take Kentucky if Rand Paul keeps spouting off his crazy ideas.

ElvisL1ves
07-22-2010, 06:37 PM
They at least waited 'til Clinton did something vaguely improprietous:p Thanks for the laugh. Did you spend the 90's in an alcoholic haze or something? They didn't immediately start making shit up, e.g., about him being a foreigner.Not a foreigner exactly, no, but a traitor, communist, pervert, even serial murderer, oh my, yes, indeedy. You could look it up.

Evil Captor
07-22-2010, 07:04 PM
Why death? Why not just imagine they voluntarily moved to an isolated island that was exactly the kind of society they wanted to live in.

Your classic Fate Worse Than Death.

jsgoddess
07-22-2010, 07:07 PM
They at least waited 'til Clinton did something vaguely improprietous. They didn't immediately start making shit up, e.g., about him being a foreigner.

Well, they made shit up about him killing people.

Of course, Obama killed his own grandma.


And Clinton was accused of all sorts of sexual improprieties with women.

Of course, Obama is accused of sexual improprieties with drug-addict men.


And Clinton's wife was called a bitch and a shrew.

Of course, Obama's wife is called an ape and a monkey and a communist.


I thought the hatred of the Clintons was extreme... until I saw the hatred for the Obamas.

BrainGlutton
07-22-2010, 07:30 PM
Why death? Why not just imagine they voluntarily moved to an isolated island that was exactly the kind of society they wanted to live in.

And they're very happy there and let's not talk about this any more, all right? If you're very good, there might be some Libertarians under the Christmas tree this year. But none of the big long-haired breeds, understand?

The Facts
07-22-2010, 08:17 PM
I am hereby saying this. I am also saying that you are a douche.And yet you give no reason. What exactly, would be the loss if they vanished off the earth (or, even better, fell to the ground bleeding from all orafices).

Two pages in, and still nobody can justify the existance of these retards. Why, besides lovey-dovey "we're all god's creatures" bullshit, does society benefit from their presence.

The Facts
07-22-2010, 08:21 PM
Here's the irony...conservatives have been doing the same thing about liberals (and greens, and lefties, etc etc) for decades now. Many of them feel exactly the same way about YOU and YOU feel about THEM. Here's the difference, dipshit: the progressives are right.

Conservatives ARE, by objective fact, racist, sexist, homophobic intolerant, ignorant, hateful, vile scum.

The Facts
07-22-2010, 08:27 PM
Would the world be better off without pedophiles? Yes. Do I want to kill all pedophiles. No, because that would be a worse crime. Agreed?I don't want to kill all pedophiles because I would go to jail. If I could kill one and not get caught... why the fuck wouldn't I? Unless maybe if that pedo makes some kind of social contribution that exceeds the harm his kiddy-diddling does, he has no right to live. Ditto the teabaggers.

Der Trihs
07-22-2010, 08:57 PM
I don't want to kill all pedophiles because I would go to jail. If I could kill one and not get caught... why the fuck wouldn't I? Because you might be wrong. And because vigilantism isn't good for society. Societies that can't or don't enforce bans on private killing tend to end up with murder being their primary cause of death.

There's no doubt plenty of people who think that you should be killed for some real or imagined sin.

Zoe
07-22-2010, 09:35 PM
Why would anyone support a political party based on constant lies and ignorant leadership?

I'm not criticizing those who support the Second Amendment. But it is a little Wild West to come armed to a demonstration. And I agree that people in this country are free to hold whatever opinions they want. But why knowingly spread vicious lies? I don't get it. If you believe it, say it. But don't make stuff up. That corrupts the democratic process. Why portray Obama as a Nazi when he is nothing like a Fascist at all? And what is with the persistence of the Birthers? They look rediculous.

How can any of you defend them? I understand how some of you can be Conservatives. But you weren't brought up to be stupid.

xtisme: In the mean time I have to admit that I'm enjoying the show!

I know your kind.

Measure for Measure
07-22-2010, 09:40 PM
I notice that nobody trying to say that these scum dying off wouldn't be a good thing. These scum dying off would not be a good thing, as they are human beings with loved ones who will miss them. Calling for the death of large numbers of people is odious. It appears that The Facts is a homicidal apologist. I condemn the OP: the perspective therein reflects no recognizably legitimate morality. It is at best a rather lame joke.

Rand Rover
07-22-2010, 09:57 PM
Teabaggers are not comparable to liberals or conservatives. They are a just fringe loonies. They don't even really have an articulable ideology or platform. They don't stand FOR anything, they are defined purely by hysterical opposition to Obama. When you get past the racism, the birth certificates, the antichrist paranoia, the Bible thumping, the gun fetishism, the homophobia, etc., there's nothing left. They are nothing but an aggregation of religious and social issue cranks, conspiracy theorists, racists and morons. They do not actually have a platform or a philosophy or a strategy or a solution to anything. Their entire raison d'etre is hating Obama. They don't have any policy proposals or alternate ideas, just personal animosity towards the President.

At least the liberals hated Bush for a REASON.

Just because you are too stupid to understand the reason why the Tea Partiers hate Obama doesn't mean they don't have one.

Diogenes the Cynic
07-22-2010, 10:02 PM
Oh, I understand the reason.

Rand Rover
07-22-2010, 10:12 PM
Oh, I understand the reason.

No you don't. You don't even understand that men, as well as women, have pubic hair. You're quite far from understanding anything beyond the mundane details of your daily life and stuff about the Bible you learned in college.

Damuri Ajashi
07-22-2010, 10:14 PM
Because they are unreasonable, and because compromise with rightwingers doesn't work. The Democrats and now Obama have been making that mistake for years; trying to reason with lunatics and compromise with the uncompromising only leads to disaster.

I've tried having discussions with these teabaggers at their rallies and the problem is that every last one of them were 200% sure about the things they believed. They all had piles of data, but there was always one piece of incorrect data that made their entire position wrong. A big one was convincing people that Tarp was passed under Bush. When I pulled out my iphone to show them the TARP wiki page, they resorted to the "well I'm not a Republican either, we need to get rid of all of them (but starting with the Democrats)"

Calling an entire movement racist when there is little evidence that the movement, as opposed to a few notable members, even cares about race, is dumb.

Its more than one or two isolated incidences. A lot of them are just pissed off because white privelege doesn't mean what it used to but there are more than a handful of full on racists at their tax day rallies.

If nothing else, then having them alive to say stupid shit and to discredit them should have some appeal.

Yes there is that.

No, I saw them calling him a Nazi, as well as all the other LEFT wing push buttons. Different strokes for different folks, but it all equates to the same thing.

I think there is a difference between screaming NAZI!!!! and threatening his children and toting guns. Don't you?

The Tea Partiers and right-wing fringe groups are stupid pieces of shit...but so are the left-wing fringe. Let's be honest and admit that, huh?

At the same time I have trouble equating people protesting a war in Iraq (which I believe was the driving force behind all that crap) to people protesting a black Democrat in the White House for stuff that was done before he was inaugurated, or stuff that the Republicans were going to do as well, or stuff that he stated he would do as soon as he took office.

No. The left-wing fringe are intelligent pieces of shit. That's just the difference. ;)

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2009/08/20/media-didnt-care-about-protest-signs-threatening-bush

Enjoy!

Yep, crazies on both sides but I have the advantage of walking past a lot of these on my lunch break and the teabaggers are worse on a per capita basis.

Damuri Ajashi
07-22-2010, 10:25 PM
so they call themselves Tea Partiers, and they're blissfully ignorant of the stupid going on in their name.

So they are cognizant enough of tea parties to know they want to be part of it but they haven't seen any of the stuff that seems to be plastered across the papers about the gun toting at Presidential speeches and the racism?

I love the teabaggers! Thanks to them, Harry Reid is going to win reelection, something thought impossible just a few moths ago. The same thing is happening in Florida, where it's likely that an independant will win the senate seat who may or may not caucus with the Democrats. Colorado will likely retain the Governorship and a Senate seat in Democratic hands due to teabagger candidates winning in primaries. Hell, the Dems might even take Kentucky if Rand Paul keeps spouting off his crazy ideas.

Well shit, when you put it that way. You make it sound like they are usurping the Republican primaries but unable to deliver win in the general elections. OMFG, what if a bunch of liberals in open primary system voted for the tea party candidate in the Republican primary?

:p Thanks for the laugh. Did you spend the 90's in an alcoholic haze or something? Not a foreigner exactly, no, but a traitor, communist, pervert, even serial murderer, oh my, yes, indeedy. You could look it up.

Yeah but they weren't marching down Constitution Avenue calling him a traitor and a murderer.

Here's the difference, dipshit: the progressives are right.

Conservatives ARE, by objective fact, racist, sexist, homophobic intolerant, ignorant, hateful, vile scum.

They're not vile scum, not all of them.

Just because you are too stupid to understand the reason why the Tea Partiers hate Obama doesn't mean they don't have one.

I thought we went over this. We all understand why they hate Obama. He's a Democrat, he's black and he was actually born in Kenya.

Rand Rover
07-22-2010, 10:34 PM
I thought we went over this. We all understand why they hate Obama. He's a Democrat, he's black and he was actually born in Kenya.
That's just all you understand because that's all you are capable of understanding. Maybe October will shake some of cobwebs out of your dumb ass. I doubt it, but hope springs eternal.

jsgoddess
07-22-2010, 10:35 PM
That's just all you understand because that's all you are capable of understanding. Maybe October will shake some of cobwebs out of your dumb ass. I doubt it, but hope springs eternal.

October?

Rand Rover
07-22-2010, 10:39 PM
October?

Er, November. Sorry, I'm getting ahead of myself.

Clothahump
07-23-2010, 12:07 AM
This is a thought experiment. Imagine a virus, like ebola, started getting passed among the teabag parties. It was 100% fatal to everyone over the age of 18, but was not contagious, so they did not spread it to other people. So in the period of a couple weeks, all the teabaggers were gone. Wouldn't America be better off?

Some say it would be a bad thing, since there are going to be some doctors and useful people like that among them, but I say this wouldn't be a problem because there would also be less patients, so less need for doctors. The people who are disproportionaly represented in the teabaggers are all useless elements to society: religious idiots, racists, and morons. (I know, I'm repeating myself) If there was some magic way to eliminate the dross from society, that would be a great thing -- wouldn't it?

Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

I have read some truly ignorant shit here on the Dope, but that took the cake.

Ají de Gallina
07-23-2010, 12:34 AM
Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

I have read some truly ignorant shit here on the Dope, but that took the cake.

Dude, what's the poor horse got to do with his shit????!!!

gravitycrash
07-23-2010, 12:58 AM
Teabaggers are not comparable to liberals or conservatives. They are a just fringe loonies. They don't even really have an articulable ideology or platform. They don't stand FOR anything, they are defined purely by hysterical opposition to Obama. When you get past the racism, the birth certificates, the antichrist paranoia, the Bible thumping, the gun fetishism, the homophobia, etc., there's nothing left. They are nothing but an aggregation of religious and social issue cranks, conspiracy theorists, racists and morons. They do not actually have a platform or a philosophy or a strategy or a solution to anything. Their entire raison d'etre is hating Obama. They don't have any policy proposals or alternate ideas, just personal animosity towards the President.

At least the liberals hated Bush for a REASON.

Holy shit, I agree with Dio.

Condescending Robot
07-23-2010, 01:43 AM
These scum dying off would not be a good thing, as they are human beings with loved ones who will miss them. Calling for the death of large numbers of people is odious. It appears that The Facts is a homicidal apologist. I condemn the OP: the perspective therein reflects no recognizably legitimate morality. It is at best a rather lame joke.

For those who don't believe in magic, the connection between "hoping for death" and "homicide" is less clear.

Measure for Measure
07-23-2010, 01:55 AM
For those who don't believe in magic, the connection between "hoping for death" and "homicide" is less clear. Explicitly wishing for someone's death is but a small step removed from a call to violence. You don't need to believe in magic to peer through this rather flimsy veil. But hey, if Mr. Facts wishes to qualify his remarks, he should right?

Condescending Robot
07-23-2010, 02:09 AM
Explicitly wishing for someone's death is but a small step removed from a call to violence.

In the way that yelling "fuck you" on the highway is a small step from rape. This confusion between idle words and criminal actions is infantile.

Measure for Measure
07-23-2010, 02:45 AM
In the way that yelling "fuck you" on the highway is a small step from rape. This confusion between idle words and criminal actions is infantile. Infantile? Look up "Death threat" in wikipedia, and you can see that perps often write with thinly veiled code, not that the OP is launching a death threat himself. No, he was saying, gee it wouldn't be a bad thing if people I don't like just died-- if you know what I mean +<wink>. This is unhinged talk radio stuff.

It's not hard. Calls for the death of thousands are outside the bounds of civilized discussion. Your example of a profanity is laughable: there are clearly distinctions between explicatives and declarative statements -- and the OP wasn't just swearing.

Gyrate
07-23-2010, 05:42 AM
That's just all you understand because that's all you are capable of understanding. Maybe October will shake some of cobwebs out of your dumb ass. I doubt it, but hope springs eternal.To be fair, he's also an ultra-liberal Muslim socialist Nazi who wants to raise your taxes and take away your guns, and the only reason that there's no actual evidence for any of that is because he's cleverly biding his time until America's guard is down.

Stoneburg
07-23-2010, 06:12 AM
So? Willful ignorance isn't my fucking problem.
I wish you were right but that is just completely untrue.

I love the teabaggers! Thanks to them, Harry Reid is going to win reelection, something thought impossible just a few moths ago. The same thing is happening in Florida, where it's likely that an independant will win the senate seat who may or may not caucus with the Democrats. Colorado will likely retain the Governorship and a Senate seat in Democratic hands due to teabagger candidates winning in primaries. Hell, the Dems might even take Kentucky if Rand Paul keeps spouting off his crazy ideas.
And in order to win back the votes 'normal' republicans will move even further to the right. Which will cause some republicans switching to the democrats. Which will mean that democrats become more right-leaning AND republicans become more right-leaning.

asterion
07-23-2010, 06:30 AM
October?

That's when we launch the revolution. Can't be a bunch of Commies without launching the revolution.

The Facts
07-23-2010, 07:36 AM
These scum dying off would not be a good thing, as they are human beings with loved ones who will miss them. Calling for the death of large numbers of people is odious. It appears that The Facts is a homicidal apologist. I condemn the OP: the perspective therein reflects no recognizably legitimate morality. It is at best a rather lame joke.Once again, we have the "all god's children" rhetoric. Yes, yes, their children love them ... so what? Morality consists of doing the most good for the greatest amount of people. The teabag virus would be sad for a few people, maybe ... but would leave an infinietely better place for the rest. Nobody in the discussion, including you, denies this.

The Facts
07-23-2010, 07:47 AM
They're not vile scum, not all of them.This is the debate I asked for in the OP -- yes, I'm sure some of them are doctors or teachers or other socially-productive people, and THEY have a net soicial benefit, even aside from their evil politics. But are there enough of those people in the group to outwiegh the socially-useless ones. I think not, but I'd like an argument.

So far, nobody has one. People are unwilling to follow through with their logic. They know conservatives are bastards that drag society down, but when someone asks, even in idle way, if we wouldn't be better off without them ... which should be OBVIOUS ... everyone gets all "oh no, every sperm is sacred, every human life is valuable" shit.

The Facts
07-23-2010, 07:48 AM
Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

I have read some truly ignorant shit here on the Dope, but that took the cake.So sad you have no argument. Please stay out of threads started by your intellectual betters.

Gyrate
07-23-2010, 08:51 AM
Once again, we have the "all god's children" rhetoric. Yes, yes, their children love them ... so what? Morality consists of doing the most good for the greatest amount of people. The teabag virus would be sad for a few people, maybe ... but would leave an infinietely better place for the rest. Nobody in the discussion, including you, denies this.Oh my God - a talking douche! A talking douche who has managed to get me onto the same side of an argument as Clothahump! Inconceivable!

Wishing for the deaths of people you don't agree with is not a sign of intellectual superiority. Thinking that it is, is even less so.

jsgoddess
07-23-2010, 10:11 AM
That's when we launch the revolution. Can't be a bunch of Commies without launching the revolution.

Cool! I bring my... um... well maybe I'll just wait here.

Shot From Guns
07-23-2010, 10:54 AM
:p Thanks for the laugh. Did you spend the 90's in an alcoholic haze or something? Not a foreigner exactly, no, but a traitor, communist, pervert, even serial murderer, oh my, yes, indeedy. You could look it up.

The crazy accusations against Clinton never got the number of followers nor mainstream media attention that people like, say, birthers have gotten. Never.

Conservatives ARE, by objective fact, racist, sexist, homophobic intolerant, ignorant, hateful, vile scum.

Huh, I guess The Facts do have a liberal bias. :rimshot:

Why would anyone support a political party based on constant lies and ignorant leadership?

Fear and ignorance. They reinforce each other.

But you weren't brought up to be stupid.

Yes, they were.

These scum dying off would not be a good thing, as they are human beings with loved ones who will miss them.

Hitler had loved ones who would miss him. (Godwin'd!!!)

Just because you are too stupid to understand the reason why the Tea Partiers hate Obama doesn't mean they don't have one.

The teabaggers don't even understand why they hate Obama. They get asked what they actually do believe, or what they think should be done, and they just stare at you like deer in fucking headlights.

I wish you were right but that is just completely untrue.

So, care to make an argument there, or are you just gonna point and go, "NUH-UH"? Because if you want, we can do that back and forth all day, and in the end I'll still come away looking better, since I'm the one who started with an actual point instead of just an unsupported denial.

YogSosoth
07-23-2010, 11:38 AM
"Look, there goes a lynch mob, bent on attacking people based on the ways in which they're different from themselves!"

*Pause*

"Let's kill them!"

As I expected, some stupid person ALWAYS gets the analogy wrong. Why don't you just say I'm no better than they are and that killing won't solve anything? That'll get you the trifecta of impotent reasoning

Tea Baggers are going to start killing people directly soon if they don't get their way. Their anti-health, anti-progressive, pro-religion, and pro-gun stance have already killed millions indirectly. Wishing Tea Baggers death is self-defense. I'm not at all hateful like they are. I only hate them because they pose a threat to me

For all the Tea Baggers and people who support them, consider taking your fervor down a notch. Ditch the arguments about Obama = Hitler, or government takeovers. Instead, simply confess, if you can scrape together the brain cells to make a coherent sentence, that Obama simply has different views than you, no more dangerous than somebody who doesn't share the same sports fandom, and that government has a role, sometimes a big role, especially when the previous government decided to cede their authority and responsibility to private for-profit corporations with no accountability

Then maybe you can live. Otherwise, fuck 'em all, go die

ElvisL1ves
07-23-2010, 12:04 PM
The crazy accusations against Clinton never got the number of followers nor mainstream media attention that people like, say, birthers have gotten. Never.That would be a Yes to the alcoholic haze question, then. Hope you enjoyed it.

Clothahump
07-23-2010, 12:08 PM
So sad you have no argument. Please stay out of threads started by your intellectual betters.

If one of my intellectual betters started a thread, I might. You sure as hell aren't my intellectual better, by any stretch of the imagination.

Shot From Guns
07-23-2010, 12:12 PM
That would be a Yes to the alcoholic haze question, then. Hope you enjoyed it.

Prove it. Show me hucksters who got all the attention of, say, Oily Taint or whatever the hell her name is. Show me people in the military who refused to serve under Clinton because he wasn't a legal President. Show me people who got their names on ballots for anything other than County Dogcatcher.

The Understander
07-23-2010, 12:13 PM
Progressives wishing for death to the Teabaggers is exactly what they want. They are, based on their propensity to bring guns to political rallies, a brutish breed, waiting for an overt green light to begin engaging in violent actions. We almost saw the start of it, IMO, when windows of Democratic congresspeople were being shattered.

I have noticed the propensity of those on the right to first accuse the left of something, anything, in order to obfuscate the issues at hand and inoculate themselves from accusation. In this way, when they are rightly called out for their irresponsible behavior, the overall impression of the Milk Party (my term for the masses who are not politically engaged) is of equal and equally corrupted tit-for-tat.

So while I can understand the sentiment, especially after boiling over my own self here in the Pit a couple days ago, I'd have to say it would be more effective to hold off, in public places, vocalizing the idea that the world would be a better place without the teabags. It gives them cover. And beyond that, it would be far more satisfying to defeat them the American way: through better speech, through more activism, and at the polls.

Shot From Guns
07-23-2010, 12:16 PM
That's right! Because saying on a random message board that it might be nice if all the teabaggers just dropped dead GIVES THEM POWER! SHIT, THE SDMB IS GOING TO BE ON FUCKING HANNITY AND COLMES TONIGHT!!!!!!!

:rolleyes:

The Understander
07-23-2010, 12:16 PM
Prove it. Show me hucksters who got all the attention of, say, Oily Taint or whatever the hell her name is. Show me people in the military who refused to serve under Clinton because he wasn't a legal President. Show me people who got their names on ballots for anything other than County Dogcatcher.

Yes, this is a great point! The Tea Party right does get more than their fair share of attention, and it empowers them to gain name recognition and even credibility :eek: from the punditocracy.

And it is far more developed in the current era of consolidated, corporate media than it was in the '90s.

The Understander
07-23-2010, 12:18 PM
That's right! Because saying on a random message board that it might be nice if all the teabaggers just dropped dead GIVES THEM POWER! SHIT, THE SDMB IS GOING TO BE ON FUCKING HANNITY AND COLMES TONIGHT!!!!!!!

:rolleyes:

*sigh* Did you miss the part where I said in public places? I don't consider the SDMB public.

ElvisL1ves
07-23-2010, 12:23 PM
Prove it.Here's your sign. :rolleyes:

Sam Stone
07-23-2010, 12:24 PM
Progressives wishing for death to the Teabaggers is exactly what they want. They are, based on their propensity to bring guns to political rallies, a brutish breed, waiting for an overt green light to begin engaging in violent actions. We almost saw the start of it, IMO, when windows of Democratic congresspeople were being shattered.


Jesus Christ, this thread has descended into bizarro land. You guys are completely freaking blind to your own hatred. And you have the gall to keep repeating the claim that the Tea Party is hateful and violent. I've read a lot of Tea Party material, and read a lot of discussion between tea partiers, and I have never, ever seen anyone express a wish for the death of anyone on the left.

This is interesting from a sociological standpoint though. The levels of righteous indignation I'm hearing from some of you are off the chart.

It's a bit like the tantrum of a small child when mom refuses to buy the sugary cereal in the grocery store.

asterion
07-23-2010, 12:28 PM
Cool! I bring my... um... well maybe I'll just wait here.

Do you know an old guy with a Scottish accent? We're definitely going to need one of those.

Der Trihs
07-23-2010, 12:30 PM
I've read a lot of Tea Party material, and read a lot of discussion between tea partiers, and I have never, ever seen anyone express a wish for the death of anyone on the left. :rolleyes: You are either delusional or lying.

The Understander
07-23-2010, 12:35 PM
Jesus Christ, this thread has descended into bizarro land. You guys are completely freaking blind to your own hatred. And you have the gall to keep repeating the claim that the Tea Party is hateful and violent. I've read a lot of Tea Party material, and read a lot of discussion between tea partiers, and I have never, ever seen anyone express a wish for the death of anyone on the left.

This is interesting from a sociological standpoint though. The levels of righteous indignation I'm hearing from some of you are off the chart.

It's a bit like the tantrum of a small child when mom refuses to buy the sugary cereal in the grocery store.

Which part are you disputing? The guns at the political rallies or the window-breaking?

Diogenes the Cynic
07-23-2010, 12:44 PM
How about the signs that say, "we came unarmed...this time?"

How about the Newsmax article calling for a military coup against Obama?

ETA, I do think that most of them are all talk when it comes to the threats of violence and bloviating about revoluton, but we've already seen them engaging in low level violence and vandalism when emboldened in mobs, and sooner or later one or a few them is probably going to pull a Tim McVeigh or take a shot at somebody. They have some real psychotics in their ranks.

BrainGlutton
07-23-2010, 12:49 PM
If one of my intellectual betters started a thread, I might. You sure as hell aren't my intellectual better, by any stretch of the imagination.

He is. So is the keyboard I'm using.

Diogenes the Cynic
07-23-2010, 12:52 PM
Teabagger literature is not representative of actual rank and file teabaggers, by the way.

ElvisL1ves
07-23-2010, 12:57 PM
Um ... because literature is produced by the literate, is that it? ;)

The Understander
07-23-2010, 01:04 PM
How about the signs that say, "we came unarmed...this time?"

How about the Newsmax article calling for a military coup against Obama?

ETA, I do think that most of them are all talk when it comes to the threats of violence and bloviating about revoluton, but we've already seen them engaging in low level violence and vandalism when emboldened in mobs, and sooner or later one or a few them is probably going to pull a Tim McVeigh or take a shot at somebody. They have some real psychotics in their ranks.

To Be Fair (TM), they did claim they wanted a 'bloodless coup'.

Hyperelastic
07-23-2010, 01:06 PM
How about the signs that say, "we came unarmed...this time?"

How about the Newsmax article calling for a military coup against Obama?

ETA, I do think that most of them are all talk when it comes to the threats of violence and bloviating about revoluton, but we've already seen them engaging in low level violence and vandalism when emboldened in mobs, and sooner or later one or a few them is probably going to pull a Tim McVeigh or take a shot at somebody. They have some real psychotics in their ranks.

Well, it takes one to know one. Is paranoia considered a psychosis or just a neurosis?

gonzomax
07-23-2010, 01:26 PM
Obama is actually a slightly right leaning corporatist. He has backed the banks and corporations since he came into office. He did not kick out the health care companies from the system they are gleefully looting and making miserable. He has not cut back wars of cut defense spending. He did not roll back the ability of the government to spy on us . No, i really don't see why the tea gaggers hate Obama. Unless a Pavlovian response to right wing propaganda is a reason. He has more in common with the right than he does with the left.

Rand Rover
07-23-2010, 02:20 PM
Yeah, it's the corporations, man

Shot From Guns
07-23-2010, 02:47 PM
Here's your sign. :rolleyes:

So, that's your concession that you don't actually have any evidence in your favor, then?

BrainGlutton
07-23-2010, 03:28 PM
FTR, I remember the Clinton years too, and while the RW hatred and scandal-mongering and conspiracy-theories against him were quite truly astonishing in their stupidity and ferocity, they bore no comparison to what we've seen since Obama was elected.

ElvisL1ves
07-23-2010, 03:45 PM
Looks like one sign isn't enough.

Shot From Guns
07-23-2010, 03:50 PM
Looks like one sign isn't enough.

So, yup, you ain't got shit.

magellan01
07-23-2010, 03:53 PM
:rolleyes: You are either delusional or lying.

Or he knows more about what he said than you.

Next.

ElvisL1ves
07-23-2010, 04:01 PM
So, yup, you ain't got shit.
I have no interest in spoonfeeding you the facts of a period of American history you were not conscious for. You can go learn on your own, since you obviously have at least basic Internet skills. And here's another sign for you, btw, dear child, since the first obviously isn't quite enough.

Now: What the hell is this shit, from so many of you, about denying that the crap Obama has been seeing (which btw has not nearly approached a steady din of demands for his impeachment) is in any part simple partisanship? No question there's a significant element of racism involved, sure, but why deny that there could be anything else at the heart of it? The comparisons are just too recent and too obvious for those who were conscious at the time.

Shot From Guns
07-23-2010, 04:12 PM
Are you blind as well as retarded? You have a bunch of people telling you that Obama's getting hit much worse than Clinton ever was, and you can't provide any evidence in favor of your position.

Damuri Ajashi
07-23-2010, 04:26 PM
That's just all you understand because that's all you are capable of understanding. Maybe October will shake some of cobwebs out of your dumb ass. I doubt it, but hope springs eternal.

Yeah, you got nothing. The teabaggers are just pissed they lost the election and want Democrats to govern as if they were Republicans... far right Republicans. What's there to understand about the Teabaggers?

Damuri Ajashi
07-23-2010, 04:29 PM
In the way that yelling "fuck you" on the highway is a small step from rape. This confusion between idle words and criminal actions is infantile.

While the OP is not Glenn Beck, we correctly condemn this sort of speech when it comes from the right and we should condemn it when it comes from the left. Sure Glenn beck has a wider and tupider audience than this message board but on principle we are more devoted to fighting ignorance with words, not with biological weapons.

ElvisL1ves
07-23-2010, 04:31 PM
Are you blind as well as retarded? You have a bunch of people telling you that Obama's getting hit much worse than Clinton ever was, and you can't provide any evidence in favor of your position.Sure can, just can't be arsed, not for someone on your level.

Now go do some homework, as already recommended.

Shot From Guns
07-23-2010, 04:33 PM
While the OP is not Glenn Beck, we correctly condemn this sort of speech when it comes from the right and we should condemn it when it comes from the left.

I view this message board as the equivalent of a bunch of people chatting at a party. There's a huge difference from someone at a party saying, "Man, I wish all those retards who think X would drop dead" and a public figure saying the same thing in the national media.

Damuri Ajashi
07-23-2010, 04:35 PM
Tea Baggers are going to start killing people directly soon if they don't get their way. Their anti-health, anti-progressive, pro-religion, and pro-gun stance have already killed millions indirectly. Wishing Tea Baggers death is self-defense. I'm not at all hateful like they are. I only hate them because they pose a threat to me

Pre-emptive genocide. Cool. Why not wait until they actually start killing people.

Anti-health are reform is incredibly selfish and short sighted but it is not killing people any mroe than you not sending money to Sally Struthers is killing orphans in Africa.

Shot From Guns
07-23-2010, 04:37 PM
Sure can, just can't be arsed, not for someone on your level.

And what is my level, pray tell? Please, do keep up these amusing games. (Honestly, does "I have evidence, I just don't have to tell you!" ever work?)

Now go do some homework, as already recommended.

I don't have to--I lived through those years, quite soberly, thank you. And I have plenty of other people in this thread agreeing with me that you're wrong.

ElvisL1ves
07-23-2010, 04:41 PM
Your level is on display here for everyone to see. It unfortunately consist of a deadly combination of staggering factual ignorance and childish stubbornness.

Now it's your turn to answer a question, one already asked and ignored: Why is it so important to you to insist that the teabaggers are only or even primarily racist, not partisan? You (and a few others) are being awfully silly about that.

Damuri Ajashi
07-23-2010, 04:42 PM
Or he knows more about what he said than you.

Next.

Or he hasn't gone to a tea party rally.

Damuri Ajashi
07-23-2010, 04:45 PM
I view this message board as the equivalent of a bunch of people chatting at a party. There's a huge difference from someone at a party saying, "Man, I wish all those retards who think X would drop dead" and a public figure saying the same thing in the national media.

When someone says that, they usually don't really mean it, I think the OP really means what he says.

Damuri Ajashi
07-23-2010, 04:55 PM
Your level is on display here for everyone to see. It unfortunately consist of a deadly combination of staggering factual ignorance and childish stubbornness.

Now it's your turn to answer a question, one already asked and ignored: Why is it so important to you to insist that the teabaggers are only or even primarily racist, not partisan? You (and a few others) are being awfully silly about that.

Wait. What? huh? I think you might be confusing SFG with someone else. I don't recall SFG saying that the vitriol against Obama was mostlyracist rather than partisan. I thought her argument was that Obama is getting it worse than Clinton ever did. I think you responded to someone else who implied that Obama was catching extra heat because he is black 9which you seem to agree with, then you said, Clinton got mroe heat and he's not black. That's wher SFG jumped in.

I don't see her arguing that this is all a race thing anywhere. I think you guys might be talking past each other.

magellan01
07-23-2010, 05:03 PM
Or he hasn't gone to a tea party rally.

Which amounts to the same thing in this case.

Stoneburg
07-23-2010, 05:49 PM
So, care to make an argument there, or are you just gonna point and go, "NUH-UH"? Because if you want, we can do that back and forth all day, and in the end I'll still come away looking better, since I'm the one who started with an actual point instead of just an unsupported denial.
I think you got wrapped up emotionally by reading the more confrontative posts and thus misread my reply. I wasn't attacking you, I was only pointing out that althoug it would be nice if wilful ignorance wasn't your problem, or mine, that's just not the case. Wilful ignorance will affect you, and you don't want it to, so it IS your problem. And mine. And everyone elses.

YogSosoth
07-23-2010, 06:32 PM
Pre-emptive genocide. Cool. Why not wait until they actually start killing people.


Self-defense. Should I wait until I get shot at before firing? As far as I'm concerned, they've had me in their sights and are waiting until November to pull the trigger.

Rand Rover
07-23-2010, 07:16 PM
Self-defense. Should I wait until I get shot at before firing? As far as I'm concerned, they've had me in their sights and are waiting until November to pull the trigger.

What's the scenario for Tea Partiers killing you? How are they going to do it?

magellan01
07-23-2010, 07:19 PM
Self-defense. Should I wait until I get shot at before firing? As far as I'm concerned, they've had me in their sights and are waiting until November to pull the trigger.

So, you're in proposing a pre-emptive strike?

Squink
07-23-2010, 07:30 PM
So, you're in proposing a pre-emptive strike?Who was it that came up with the Bush doctrine?

Vinyl Turnip
07-23-2010, 08:09 PM
Sure can, just can't be arsed, not for someone on your level.

Now go do some homework, as already recommended.

I sympathize, really I do. Being President, Treasurer, and Chief Box-Gobbler of the Hillary Fan Club is obviously a demanding set of roles, and it's perfectly understandable that you might, in all the hurly-burly, lose some perspective. But no matter how much your own butt hurt--- and I know it hurt very, very badly--- when Hillary lost, you can't project your own sphincteric anguish onto the public at large.

Mind you, I'm not minimizing your pain. You were sore, red, throbbing, and justifiably angry. But it's a question of frequency and volume, not intensity. If the contest were "who's angrier over criticism of their candidate," Hillary would win hands-down because you'd single-handedly blow the curve.

But the question is "who's taken more shit?" So come on. Let's not even pretend.

(Spoken, incidentally, as someone who is currently quite disenchanted with Obama and feels that he fully deserves a lot of shit, just not of the type we're discussing.)

magellan01
07-23-2010, 08:16 PM
Who was it that came up with the Bush doctrine?

What does that have to do with anything?

crowmanyclouds
07-23-2010, 08:22 PM
So, you're in proposing a pre-emptive strike?Maybe he's(?) just being wary?

CMC fnord!

Measure for Measure
07-23-2010, 08:31 PM
What's the scenario for Tea Partiers killing you? How are they going to do it? Some sort of terrorist action. This past week a right wing loony got into a gunfight with some Oakland cops. Cool heads and professionalism prevailed at the Oakland PD and only the body armored perp was hurt, but not killed.

Reportedly the conservative bank robber was planning on taking down the ACLU and Tides Foundation. When you have hot headed conservative lunatics calling for violence on the radio (with a thin veil of course) some sensitive souls are liable to act on it. The same would apply to sociopathic posts like the OP, except they don't have anywhere near the same reach.

You know who called for mass murder? Godwin. Hitler had loved ones who would miss him. Curse you Shot From Guns for beating me too the punch! Once again, we have the "all god's children" rhetoric. Yes, yes, their children love them ... so what? Morality consists of doing the most good for the greatest amount of people. The teabag virus would be sad for a few people, maybe ... but would leave an infinietely better place for the rest. Nobody in the discussion, including you, denies this. Actually this is more Stalinist (10 million dead) than Naziist (6? million Jews). I find it hard to see how veiled calls for mass murder are consistent with any moral system, never mind utilitarianism. You are depraved.

Measure for Measure
07-23-2010, 08:44 PM
Are you blind as well as retarded? You have a bunch of people telling you that Obama's getting hit much worse than Clinton ever was, and you can't provide any evidence in favor of your position. Reverend Falwell distributed videos that accused Clinton of murder (google Vince Foster). Read the Wallace literature from the 1960s for more examples of right-wing paranoia.

Conservatives go ape-shit whenever a Democrat is elected President. That the case against Obama is less than threadbare doesn't really matter -- this is a matter of political psychology. In 2008, I thought that the swamps would be even crazier if Hillary was elected Prez: now I am not so sure. Obama is a clean cut guy, IMHO: their attacks provide us with insight into modern conservative personality defects. Thankfully, the left doesn't have so much of this: I'd argue that the OP is more an exception than the rule.

Measure for Measure
07-23-2010, 08:46 PM
What does that have to do with anything? Bush co liked pre-emptive strikes though they violated age-old rules of war -- not that it matters to the modern conservative.

The wider point is that the OP is embedded in the crazy.

The Facts
07-23-2010, 08:54 PM
If one of my intellectual betters started a thread, I might. You sure as hell aren't my intellectual better, by any stretch of the imagination.
And yet, you have no argument.

The Facts
07-23-2010, 08:57 PM
While the OP is not Glenn Beck, we correctly condemn this sort of speech when it comes from the right and we should condemn it when it comes from the left. Sure Glenn beck has a wider and tupider audience than this message board but on principle we are more devoted to fighting ignorance with words, not with biological weapons.When evil is armed, words aren't enough.

Squink
07-23-2010, 09:07 PM
What does that have to do with anything?Well, the proto-teabaggers were a big part of the cheerleading squad for Bush's preemptive strike doctrine, so I don't really see how they can object to having such a doctrine applied to themselves. Unless perhaps they care to admit that they were wrong? Barring that, it's only fair to let em die by the sword they helped forge.
Of course, we'd all feel bad about it afterwards. ;)

Rand Rover
07-23-2010, 09:24 PM
Well, the proto-teabaggers were a big part of the cheerleading squad for Bush's preemptive strike doctrine

What's your evidence for that proposition?

Der Trihs
07-23-2010, 09:32 PM
Or he knows more about what he said than you. Since he's blatantly factually wrong, no. As I said; he's either lying or delusional, probably lying.

magellan01
07-23-2010, 09:32 PM
Well, the proto-teabaggers were a big part of the cheerleading squad for Bush's preemptive strike doctrine, so I don't really see how they can object to having such a doctrine applied to themselves. Unless perhaps they care to admit that they were wrong? Barring that, it's only fair to let em die by the sword they helped forge.
Of course, we'd all feel bad about it afterwards. ;)

What I've trying to determine is if you think a doctrine of pre-emption is justifiable or not? Which is it?

magellan01
07-23-2010, 09:35 PM
Since he's blatantly factually wrong, no. As I said; he's either lying or delusional, probably lying.

Option 3: he disagrees with you. And you are the one that is delusional.

And I think the odds on #3 being correct are short indeed.

Measure for Measure
07-23-2010, 09:57 PM
...and give every poster the respect they deserve. When evil is armed, words aren't enough. Bush and Cheney believed this: react to the US's security challenges with maximum hysteria. Conservative supporters of Axis of Evil analysis, like The Facts, step well beyond what is legitimate self defense - they reside in the land of the paranoid. So if Iraq might have weapons of mass destruction, we should invade. Since the government is well armed, individuals need their own arsenal.

Now magellan01 might argue that there are distinctions among his conservative breatheran, and I guess he's right. Some conservatives don't like Tea Partiers, for example -and now we know that the Tea Party has conservative opponents among both the more and less mentally stable. I was worried for a while that The Facts was a progressive. I apologize Mr. Facts: I didn't realize that you were an ultra-neo-conservative.

Squink
07-23-2010, 10:05 PM
What I've trying to determine is if you think a doctrine of pre-emption is justifiable or not? Which is it?

It's a load of crap, but I'll happily apply it to those who believe in it, so as not to insult their cultural norms.

Der Trihs
07-23-2010, 10:18 PM
Option 3: he disagrees with you. And you are the one that is delusional.

And I think the odds on #3 being correct are short indeed.They have made threats. They have engaged in violence. Those are facts. There's zero chance he's right.

Since you are a liar and a bigot yourself I'm not surprised to see you defend them. As for Sam; he's such a kneejerk the-Right-is-always-right sort that I'd be surprised if he didn't defend them.

Damuri Ajashi
07-23-2010, 10:43 PM
Which amounts to the same thing in this case.

I was actually talking about Sam Stone.

I was in town when they had that Tea Party march on Washington, there were a lot of people but probably not 100,000 people. Most of them were just sore that we elected a Democratic president but a few seemed upset that we elected a black president.

I tried talking to them but by last September (BTW WTF does 9/11 have to do with the tea party, does it make them more patriotic or are they just trying to capture the sense of panic of that day?), folks had forgotten that Obama had nothing to do with TARP or the first stimulus plan, that the Obama stimulus plan was passed with broad bipartisan support.

When you broke it down for them what you were left with was Obama fulfilling a campaign promise to pass health care reform (there were issues like AIG and GM as well but the really big issue that had left on the table after you reminded them that neither stimulus packages nor the tarp could really be laid squarely at Obama's feet).

Self-defense. Should I wait until I get shot at before firing? As far as I'm concerned, they've had me in their sights and are waiting until November to pull the trigger.

Are you speaking metaphorically? Because I don't think anyone is literally going to shoot you. You did not seem to be speaking metaphorically when you proposed the death of the teabaggers. This is simply not how you win arguments.

I sympathize, really I do. Being President, Treasurer, and Chief Box-Gobbler of the Hillary Fan Club is obviously a demanding set of roles, and it's perfectly understandable that you might, in all the hurly-burly, lose some perspective.

I'd rather be Hillary than Obama right now. I mean she can still become President in 2016 and she can avoid the shitstorm that is going on right now.

(Spoken, incidentally, as someone who is currently quite disenchanted with Obama and feels that he fully deserves a lot of shit, just not of the type we're discussing.)

Yeah I hear you. He turned out to be such a pussy.

When evil is armed, words aren't enough.

Well, can we wait until they are accumulating yellowcake and have amassed WMDs? There is not every many whackos in the tea party that weren't whackos before the anyone even thought of them. This just puts them all in one place so its easier to keep track of them.

rolandgunslinger
07-23-2010, 11:23 PM
They have made threats. They have engaged in violence. Those are facts. There's zero chance he's right.

Since you are a liar and a bigot yourself I'm not surprised to see you defend them. As for Sam; he's such a kneejerk the-Right-is-always-right sort that I'd be surprised if he didn't defend them.

You're not really calling someone a bigot are you? Pot meet kettle.

magellan01
07-24-2010, 12:13 AM
You're not really calling someone a bigot are you? Pot meet kettle.

I think his problem is that he's met too many pots and kettles, as they were bounced about his head. What he needs to meet is Mr. Sanity. But they live in different universes so a meeting is unlikely.

Der Trihs
07-24-2010, 03:20 AM
You're not really calling someone a bigot are you? Pot meet kettle.Let me guess, I'm a "bigot" because I disapprove of religion, right? You can hate Democrats, liberals, Nazis, Communists, vegetarians and pretty much any other ideology or belief or practice - but hate religion and that's different. No matter how many people suffer and die because of it we're all suppose to talk about how wonderful it is. :rolleyes:

rolandgunslinger
07-24-2010, 10:30 AM
You're not really calling someone a bigot are you? Pot meet kettle.Let me guess, I'm a "bigot" because I disapprove of religion, right? You can hate Democrats, liberals, Nazis, Communists, vegetarians and pretty much any other ideology or belief or practice - but hate religion and that's different. No matter how many people suffer and die because of it we're all suppose to talk about how wonderful it is. :rolleyes:

No Der. If you only "disapproved" religion I wouldn't believe you a bigot. You hate religious people the same as a racist hate people of a different race. You paint every religious person with one big brush and dismiss any possibility that there could be any good that can come from someone religious.

My Grandmother was a Christian woman who got up every fucking morning at 5:00 am for as long as I can remember, took a fucking bus to downtown Memphis and cooked food for people in need. When my mom asked her why she does this all the time my Grandmother told her she believed this was where the God wants her.

When she died there wasn't enough room in the church for her service it was standing room only. This tiny woman helped so many people.....

And for you, a person who probably never lifted a hand to help someone in need, comes in every thread and shits on good people of religion kinda pisses me off. And before you come along and say non religious people do the same work my Grandmother did, well, I already know and God bless em.

I also know that there are racists in the Teaparty movement and I know there are bad religous people out there. But I'm not stupid or narrowminded enough to believe that every teaparty member or religious person is evil.

It saddens me to see that someone as smart as you to be so hateful and narrowminded.

ElvisL1ves
07-24-2010, 10:37 AM
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves;12719635]
I sympathize, really I do. Being President, Treasurer, and Chief Box-Gobbler of the Hillary Fan ClubI was referring to BILL Clinton, you moron.:rolleyes: The President in the 90's, who the slavering right wing actually IMPEACHED after years upon years of shit. Maybe you can find a grownup to tell you about it.

Here's a sign for you too. Maybe you can get someone to read it for you.

ElvisL1ves
07-24-2010, 11:05 AM
And I have no idea how that quoting problem came up ...

Damuri, I'd be happy for a cogent explanation from anybody, really. Along with a cogent explanation of what makes visceral Obama-idolators, such as the several in this thread, any better than visceral Obama-haters.

Vinyl Turnip
07-24-2010, 11:26 AM
I was referring to BILL Clinton, you moron.:rolleyes: The President in the 90's, who the slavering right wing actually IMPEACHED after years upon years of shit. Maybe you can find a grownup to tell you about it.

My mistake. Unfortunately, you're no less wrong.

Bill Clinton was labeled a womanizer, a draft-dodger, a perjurer? People think Obama is the Anti-Christ. Pretty tough to top that.

elfkin477
07-24-2010, 11:56 AM
Oh, come on...

Now, look, I'm about as left-leaning as is possible without turning into an extremist, but let's be honest here: There were PLENTY of signs with pictures of Bush with bullet holes in his head, Bush with nooses around his neck, and all that type of thing in the recent past. Hell, there was even a movie about him getting assassinated!
I'll take your word for it, but I nevers aw any signs like that.
So do a google image search for "Kill Bush Sign" and see several.

Der Trihs
07-24-2010, 12:10 PM
No Der. If you only "disapproved" religion I wouldn't believe you a bigot. You hate religious people the same as a racist hate people of a different race. You paint every religious person with one big brush and dismiss any possibility that there could be any good that can come from someone religious.
In other words, you call me a bigot because it feeds your persecution complex. I've never claimed that "no good came from religion"; I've claimed that the effects of religion are overwhelmingly evil. Your grandmother's charity no more redeems religion than the charity of an SS officer would redeem Nazi Germany.

And the analogy with race and religion doesn't work. Race is just an arbitrary concept loosely tied to appearance. Religion is about what people believe and what they do. And you again demonstrate my point; it's perfectly OK to condemn all sorts of groups for what they believe; but not religion.

ElvisL1ves
07-24-2010, 12:24 PM
My mistake.Such an easy one to make, too. :rolleyes:

People think Obama is the Anti-Christ. Pretty tough to top that.Not at all, fool. (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=%22bill+clinton%22+%22antichrist%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=C3QFQQRNLTIKJH5XggwTsg8mDBQAAAKoEBU_QlzEV&pbx=1&fp=b6f5afd20980ff7e) :rolleyes:

When the Obama impeachment hearings convene, be sure to let us know, okay, Slugger?

Would you care to try an answer to my questions in my earlier post?

rolandgunslinger
07-24-2010, 12:36 PM
I don't have a persecution complex so don't project your own shit on me. And what point exactly do I prove that it's ok to condmn all sorts of groups for what they believe; but not religion? I don't have a problem pointing out religious bigots or any other group of people who are assholes.

Lord Ashtar
07-24-2010, 01:21 PM
People think Obama is the Anti-Christ. Pretty tough to top that.Not at all, fool. (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=%22bill+clinton%22+%22antichrist%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=C3QFQQRNLTIKJH5XggwTsg8mDBQAAAKoEBU_QlzEV&pbx=1&fp=b6f5afd20980ff7e) :rolleyes:

Google searches are the very best kind of cite. (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-us&q=king+arthur+antichrist&aq=0&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=king+arthur+antic&gs_rfai=)

jsgoddess
07-24-2010, 02:21 PM
When the Obama impeachment hearings convene, be sure to let us know, okay, Slugger?

By a Democratic-controlled Congress?

ElvisL1ves
07-24-2010, 03:23 PM
I'm glad you're sure that will always be the case. And as long it is, Obama can never get the shit Clinton did.

jsgoddess
07-24-2010, 03:30 PM
I'm glad you're sure that will always be the case. And as long it is, Obama can never get the shit Clinton did.

I'm sure you can point to me saying it will always be the case. I'm glad you're sure that the hatred for Obama isn't at the level of the hatred for Bill Clinton, but surely you recognize that if impeachment is evidence, it's evidence that will not exist if the Democrats maintain control over Congress, and it's evidence that would not exist if the Democrats during Clinton's term had maintained control over congress.

People hated Bill Clinton. It was obsessive, it was excessive, and it was downright creepy. I see no evidence that the hatred for Obama is less. You do? Fine. It's at least an arguable position.

ElvisL1ves
07-24-2010, 03:40 PM
I'm sure you can point to me saying it will always be the case.The part where you implied skepticism that it could happen.

I'm glad you're sure that the hatred for Obama isn't at the level of the hatred for Bill ClintonIt doesn't matter. The point is that the RW-GOP oppositionism and hatemongering we see now is nothing new, it's they way they work, and its roots are in partisanship rather than racism. I have been responding to those who insist, foolishly and ignorantly, that it's all about the blackness of their patron saint.

People hated Bill Clinton. It was obsessive, it was excessive, and it was downright creepy. I see no evidence that the hatred for Obama is less. You do? Fine. It's at least an arguable position.Again, it's about the claim by the idolators that no hatred could ever have been or be in any way nearly as strong as the hatred for their own favorite superhero. Of course it can, and has been, and will be again for somebody else.

Get over yourselves and grow up, those of you - you're no better than the teabaggers.

jsgoddess
07-24-2010, 03:45 PM
I'm sure you can point to me saying it will always be the case.The part where you implied skepticism that it could happen.

No, that was the part where I expressed skepticism for the lack of impeachment to date having any weight. If the Democrats retain Congress throughout Obama's presidency, will you still point to impeachment as if it demonstrates greater hatred of Clinton?

I'm baffled as to how I'm no better than a teabagger when I think that some of the hatred of Obama exceeds the hatred of Clinton, and I think some of that hatred is fueled by racism.

jsgoddess
07-24-2010, 04:28 PM
I started a GD thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=572062) on the various hatreds of Obama and Clinton, if anyone's interested.

Der Trihs
07-24-2010, 04:33 PM
And what point exactly do I prove that it's ok to condmn all sorts of groups for what they believe; but not religion? That is generally the unspoken thrust of arguments like yours. Unless you are one of the few consistent ones who also insist it's wrong to condemn groups like the Nazis or the KKK, which is stupid for different reasons.

It doesn't matter. The point is that the RW-GOP oppositionism and hatemongering we see now is nothing new, it's they way they work, and its roots are in partisanship rather than racism. I have been responding to those who insist, foolishly and ignorantly, that it's all about the blackness of their patron saint.

<snip>

Again, it's about the claim by the idolators that no hatred could ever have been or be in any way nearly as strong as the hatred for their own favorite superhero.
You'd be more convincing if you weren't parroting right wing garbage about Obama being "idolated" as a "patron saint" or "superhero". And whether you like it or not there's a huge amount of racism involved in the hatred against him.

ElvisL1ves
07-24-2010, 05:28 PM
No, that was the part where I expressed skepticism for the lack of impeachment to date having any weight.You're still not getting the point, are you? I have been trying to REBUT the observation, combined with condescending denials that anything else could be the case, that nothing that happened to Clinton could possibly compare to the amount of shit Obama has faced. You seem to agree with me. Clear now?

I'm baffled as to how I'm no better than a teabagger when I think that some of the hatred of Obama exceeds the hatred of Clinton, and I think some of that hatred is fueled by racism.You're not a blanket denier, true. Others are, though. And of course some of the current crop of Republican hate-mongering is racially fueled - just not all or even the bulk of it. Clear on that now too?

Trish, go explain that to Turnipbrain or BobTheApostle or Head Shot Off by Guns, okay? Sheesh.

Vinyl Turnip
07-24-2010, 05:44 PM
Turnipbrain? I demand better mockery.

ElvisL1ves
07-24-2010, 06:55 PM
Then deserve better. :rolleyes:

Shot From Guns
07-26-2010, 11:21 AM
Why is it so important to you to insist that the teabaggers are only or even primarily racist, not partisan?

I don't think all teabaggers are racist. Some of them are just retarded.

I don't see her arguing that this is all a race thing anywhere.

Thanks for the defense, Damuri, but even if I didn't say it in this thread, I do believe that Obama is getting more heat than Clinton did because he's Black. I do not believe that all of the pushback is racist--as I said, some people are just stupid. (And a very few of them on the right have at least partially reasoned objections.) But I am certain that a good deal of the vitriol--especially the really disgustingly unreasoned stuff--is about Obama being not just a "liberal" but a Black one.

I wasn't attacking you, I was only pointing out that althoug it would be nice if wilful ignorance wasn't your problem, or mine, that's just not the case. Wilful ignorance will affect you, and you don't want it to, so it IS your problem. And mine. And everyone elses.

Well, that's what happens when you don't fully articulate your response--I can't tell what part of my post you're responding to or what your actual position is. :p

When I say willful ignorance isn't my problem, I don't mean that it doesn't affect me so much as I don't have to cut anybody any slack for it.

Again, it's about the claim by the idolators that no hatred could ever have been or be in any way nearly as strong as the hatred for their own favorite superhero.

Do me a favor. Go find a post anywhere on this site where I appear to be a fan of Obama. (Hint: You won't.) I voted for him as being the vastly better of the only two viable options. Subjectively, he's a million miles better than McCain ever would have been (especially tied to Palin). But objectively, I don't like him much at all. Obama is nowhere near liberal enough for me, and he never will be.

See what kind of retarded-ass conclusions you can come to when you start from false premises?

Head Shot Off by Guns

Really? That's the best you can do? This is where I'd come up with a similarly bland version of your name, but given that it's already got a 1 in the middle of it, I really can't top that. Honestly, the only way you could make a better mockery of yourself every time you post is by maybe bordering the name with some x's, or make the whole thing intercaps.

Lord Ashtar
07-26-2010, 11:35 AM
Head Shot Off by Guns

Really? That's the best you can do? This is where I'd come up with a similarly bland version of your name, but given that it's already got a 1 in the middle of it, I really can't top that. Honestly, the only way you could make a better mockery of yourself every time you post is by maybe bordering the name with some x's, or make the whole thing intercaps.

Keep that up and he'll probably give you another sign.

YogSosoth
07-26-2010, 11:55 AM
What's the scenario for Tea Partiers killing you? How are they going to do it?

Its hard for me to imagine how one so steeped in conservative bullshit could miss the repeated call to arms, the thinly-veiled threats, the Godwinizing of Obama, the fear-mongering, and the ignorant righteousness that right wing media has spewed. I know you're being purposefully ignorant on this subject, but take that shit somewhere else. People can see through your bullshit, ok?



So, you're in proposing a pre-emptive strike?

By attempting to blur the line between self-defense and pre-emptive strike, you cheapen the meaning of both.



Are you speaking metaphorically? Because I don't think anyone is literally going to shoot you. You did not seem to be speaking metaphorically when you proposed the death of the teabaggers. This is simply not how you win arguments.


If you don't think anyone would shoot me, then you need to take a look at the rallies and the rhetoric coming out from the Tea Baggers over the past year. Gun-waving lunatics marching with their weapons out to intimidate people, attacks on the office of Democratic Congressmen, calls by people like Beck and Palin to arm themselves or "target" Democrats. Yes, these people are literally going to shoot me if things go bad for them in November. Anyone who thinks otherwise is wearing blinders.

Rand Rover
07-26-2010, 01:18 PM
Yog--, not sure why you don't undersțad my question. You are making all sorts of vague claims about how Tea Party people will shoot you or whatever. But how exactly do you see that going down? Will they riot in the streets and shoot radom people? Will they pull voting records and shoot registered Democrats? Will they start an armed insurrection to overthrowthe US and shoot several police and military personnel along with some civilians in the process? Or what?

Vinyl Turnip
07-26-2010, 01:38 PM
Yog--, not sure why you don't undersțad

What the hell... is your keyboard set to Old Norse?

Shot From Guns
07-26-2010, 02:16 PM
Keep that up and he'll probably give you another sign.

A sign... of my level!

Yog--, not sure why you don't undersțad

What the hell... is your keyboard set to Old Norse?

There isn't even a thorn in "understand."

Rand Rover
07-26-2010, 02:38 PM
Yeah, I dunno. Some keystroke combo on a blackberry involving a t produces a thorn, but I can't figure out how to do it on purpose. And I've only ever done it on the SDMB, never email, so maybe vBulletin is involved somehow as well.

Shot From Guns
07-26-2010, 02:46 PM
Yeah, I dunno. Some keystroke combo on a blackberry involving a t produces a thorn, but I can't figure out how to do it on purpose. And I've only ever done it on the SDMB, never email, so maybe vBulletin is involved somehow as well.

Since your "understand" is also missing an "n," I'm going to guess it's something involving a "tn."

Duke
07-26-2010, 04:04 PM
Yeah, I dunno. Some keystroke combo on a blackberry involving a t produces a thorn, but I can't figure out how to do it on purpose. And I've only ever done it on the SDMB, never email, so maybe vBulletin is involved somehow as well.

Since your "understand" is also missing an "n," I'm going to guess it's something involving a "tn."

Let this be a warning to any poster who aspires to greațess.

Biffy the Elephant Shrew
07-26-2010, 04:12 PM
Let this be a warning to any poster who aspires to greațess.

This post has been greațed by the greațess.

YogSosoth
07-26-2010, 04:46 PM
Yog--, not sure why you don't undersțad my question. You are making all sorts of vague claims about how Tea Party people will shoot you or whatever. But how exactly do you see that going down? Will they riot in the streets and shoot radom people? Will they pull voting records and shoot registered Democrats? Will they start an armed insurrection to overthrowthe US and shoot several police and military personnel along with some civilians in the process? Or what?

They've already attacked Democratic lawmakers. We had some idiotic group called the Hutaree or some shit like that try to pull off a huge cop killing spree in the hopes it would lead to a revolution. They arrested skinheads who thought they could ram their car into Obama's motorcade while firing and killing people. As far as I'm concerned, attacking my elected officials who holds my viewpoint is a precursor to attacking people like me

Public figures would come first. Maybe someone will mail bombs to prominent liberals, maybe they'll be attacked on the streets like that film maker who was stabbed by a radical Islamic fundie. I'm sure you're wetting your pants at the thought of someone attacking Michael Moore.

If you want to target people it's easy. You nutjobs are already intimidating and blowing up places that provide abortions, it doesn't take a whole lot of brain cells to think that maybe some Tea Baggers will toss a bomb at a Democratic rally, or a rally for a liberal cause. Sarah Palin already told people to target people with liberal bumper stickers, and lo and behold, some idiot rams his car into a guy driving a car with an Obama sticker a few months back.

I'm sure you're too unimaginative to think such things could happen, but they can and have. But it's ok, I know you're trolling on purpose. Next you'll probably ask how they'll shoot me if I would only keep my mouth shut about being liberal, right?

Stoneburg
07-26-2010, 04:55 PM
I wasn't attacking you, I was only pointing out that althoug it would be nice if wilful ignorance wasn't your problem, or mine, that's just not the case. Wilful ignorance will affect you, and you don't want it to, so it IS your problem. And mine. And everyone elses.

Well, that's what happens when you don't fully articulate your response--I can't tell what part of my post you're responding to or what your actual position is. :p

When I say willful ignorance isn't my problem, I don't mean that it doesn't affect me so much as I don't have to cut anybody any slack for it.

Thanks for clarifying that. I'm 100% behind you in not cutting slack for wilful ignorance. And I hope you will agree that wilful ignorance is a very real problem, that it affects everyone, and that itshould be fought as effectively as possible.

Shot From Guns
07-26-2010, 05:03 PM
I'm 100% behind you in not cutting slack for wilful ignorance. And I hope you will agree that wilful ignorance is a very real problem, that it affects everyone, and that itshould be fought as effectively as possible.

Yeah, my objection was to the attitude that "it's not their fault, 'cause they just don't know any better." The problem, of course, is with how you effectively fight willful ignorance--as the saying goes, you can't argue out what wasn't argued in.

This is why all the world's problems would be solved if I had the ability to kill people with my mind. Teabaggers? Dead. Mugabe? Dead. Dude talking loudly on his cellphone on the bus? Dead. Everybody wins!

villa
07-26-2010, 05:11 PM
This is why all the world's problems would be solved if I had the ability to kill people with my mind. Teabaggers? Dead. Mugabe? Dead. Dude talking loudly on his cellphone on the bus? Dead. Everybody wins!

Well, not strictly speaking everybody. It's tough to see that scenario as a win for Mugabe, the person talking on the phone on the bus, or the teabaggers.

Not saying it would be a bad thing as such, but just for accuracy's sake, you know...

Rand Rover
07-26-2010, 08:36 PM
Yog--, not sure why you don't undersțad my question. You are making all sorts of vague claims about how Tea Party people will shoot you or whatever. But how exactly do you see that going down? Will they riot in the streets and shoot radom people? Will they pull voting records and shoot registered Democrats? Will they start an armed insurrection to overthrowthe US and shoot several police and military personnel along with some civilians in the process? Or what?

They've already attacked Democratic lawmakers. We had some idiotic group called the Hutaree or some shit like that try to pull off a huge cop killing spree in the hopes it would lead to a revolution. They arrested skinheads who thought they could ram their car into Obama's motorcade while firing and killing people. As far as I'm concerned, attacking my elected officials who holds my viewpoint is a precursor to attacking people like me

Public figures would come first. Maybe someone will mail bombs to prominent liberals, maybe they'll be attacked on the streets like that film maker who was stabbed by a radical Islamic fundie. I'm sure you're wetting your pants at the thought of someone attacking Michael Moore.

If you want to target people it's easy. You nutjobs are already intimidating and blowing up places that provide abortions, it doesn't take a whole lot of brain cells to think that maybe some Tea Baggers will toss a bomb at a Democratic rally, or a rally for a liberal cause. Sarah Palin already told people to target people with liberal bumper stickers, and lo and behold, some idiot rams his car into a guy driving a car with an Obama sticker a few months back.

I'm sure you're too unimaginative to think such things could happen, but they can and have. But it's ok, I know you're trolling on purpose. Next you'll probably ask how they'll shoot me if I would only keep my mouth shut about being liberal, right?
Thank you, that's some good crazy.

YogSosoth
07-27-2010, 12:53 AM
Thank you, that's some good crazy.

Yeah, all from the right wing side. Any defense, or just excuses? :dubious:

Shot From Guns
07-27-2010, 10:45 AM
Well, not strictly speaking everybody. It's tough to see that scenario as a win for Mugabe, the person talking on the phone on the bus, or the teabaggers.

Not saying it would be a bad thing as such, but just for accuracy's sake, you know...

Everybody who matters wins!

Thank you, that's some good crazy.

Stop making me agree with you. YogSosoth, there are definitely some crazy, violent people on the fringe of the teabagger movement, but to expect some huge group of conservatives to instigate coordinated physical violence against Democrats/liberals... :rolleyes:

villa
07-27-2010, 12:43 PM
Everybody who matters wins!


I'll allow that.

YogSosoth
07-27-2010, 01:12 PM
Stop making me agree with you. YogSosoth, there are definitely some crazy, violent people on the fringe of the teabagger movement, but to expect some huge group of conservatives to instigate coordinated physical violence against Democrats/liberals... :rolleyes:

I guess you missed the part where it already happened?

It will take no more than a couple of right-wingers, the Becks and the Limbaughs, to say that liberals are a threat and to throw shit through their windows to start a campaign of violence. Conservatives are so stupid they'd happily follow along with whatever their masters tell them to do

But hey, prove me wrong. Prove that it wasn't a right-wing retard who told people to throw bricks through Democratic Congressmen's windows. Prove that it wasn't Palin who said to target Democrats, using crosshairs in her little powerpoint. Prove that people who are putting up signs comparing Obama and Hitler aren't conservatives.

Sorry, but it's already begun to happen. The only way to stop continuing violence is if somehow all conservatives had their IQ's increased to triple digits. That, unfortunately, would take a miracle of the god that doesn't exist

Shot From Guns
07-27-2010, 02:53 PM
I guess you missed the part where it already happened? [...] Prove that it wasn't a right-wing retard who told people to throw bricks through Democratic Congressmen's windows. Prove that it wasn't Palin who said to target Democrats, using crosshairs in her little powerpoint. Prove that people who are putting up signs comparing Obama and Hitler aren't conservatives.

None of this is a "huge group of conservatives to instigate coordinated physical violence against Democrats/liberals," which is your premise. There are people in the conservative mainstream saying deeply stupid things, and there are a few people on the fringe who are getting physically confrontational to the point of violence against people or property. None of that is hordes of Limbaugh's dittoheads swarming the streets to pull everybody out of a car with an Obama bumpersticker and shoot them in the back of the head to lie in the street as a warning to others, which is what your retarded prediction amounts to.

villa
07-27-2010, 02:56 PM
None of this is a "huge group of conservatives to instigate coordinated physical violence against Democrats/liberals," which is your premise. There are people in the conservative mainstream saying deeply stupid things, and there are a few people on the fringe who are getting physically confrontational to the point of violence against people or property. None of that is hordes of Limbaugh's dittoheads swarming the streets to pull everybody out of a car with an Obama bumpersticker and shoot them in the back of the head to lie in the street as a warning to others, which is what your retarded prediction amounts to.

I don't think the danger necessarily comes from the teabaggers themselves. I think you may see a situation where their extreme elements do get involved in some violent shenanigans, and people start clamoring for increased police presence and powers. And we all know that the po pos are great at using those powers to restrain the subversive forces of the right, rather than directing them against dangerous leftist elements (like gays and ethnic minorities)...

YogSosoth
07-28-2010, 04:49 PM
None of this is a "huge group of conservatives to instigate coordinated physical violence against Democrats/liberals," which is your premise. There are people in the conservative mainstream saying deeply stupid things, and there are a few people on the fringe who are getting physically confrontational to the point of violence against people or property. None of that is hordes of Limbaugh's dittoheads swarming the streets to pull everybody out of a car with an Obama bumpersticker and shoot them in the back of the head to lie in the street as a warning to others, which is what your retarded prediction amounts to.

Is this shit Loki's Wager? Cause if you're going to define widespread violence as the point where Rush's millions of listeners attack liberals in the streets, you'll never get it. But there is a point in which we have already crossed where the fringe radical right has become the typical and popular plurality among the right. There is absolutely a huge group of conservatives dedicated and able, and have exercised that ability, to hurt liberals and liberal causes. The right wing may as well rebrand itself as the Tea Baggers because those retards are the mainstream now.

Everywhere you look there is the stifling of moderate, or non-crazy, conservative ideology. McCain can't even support bills he pushed through. Romney's afraid to tout his own universal health care program he instituted in Massachusetts. Obama's White House has to apologize for putting out a report on possible right wing terrorism even though his administration had one from the left, and one from the right. You have Congressmen apologizing to oil companies and saying the president's acting like a mobster. Hell, right retards even dropped patriotism like a hot potato by siding with foreign leaders in order to show how much they disagreed with Obama's foreign policy in South America. You have a Senator praying on the fucking Senate floor for the death of another Senator!

No, Loki, your fucked up fantasy about a responsible right wing doesn't exist. If there are non-crazy right wingers, they are in hiding and the extreme minority. The Tea Baggers are no more than a thuggish group of domestic terrorists that need to die as fast as possible so that America can progress past their evils

Shot From Guns
07-28-2010, 05:26 PM
No shit, the right wing is fucking nuts. But there's a huge, huge gap between "they are trying to enact retarded policies" and "they are going to get physically violent on a significant scale."

Squink
07-28-2010, 05:48 PM
there's a huge, huge gap between "they are trying to enact retarded policies" and "they are going to get physically violent on a significant scale."How then do you explain their conquest of Iraq?
I feel threatened by crazy ass shit like that.

Shot From Guns
07-28-2010, 05:54 PM
How then do you explain their conquest of Iraq?

If killing brown foreigners were considered by the right wing to be remotely comparable to killing white Americans, we never would have invaded Iraq. Fucking duh.

jsgoddess
07-28-2010, 06:08 PM
No shit, the right wing is fucking nuts. But there's a huge, huge gap between "they are trying to enact retarded policies" and "they are going to get physically violent on a significant scale."

I agree with you as far as you go. But I think there have been some things filling in some of those gaps. Most of those things are still rhetorical, and still offer some plausible deniability to the speakers, but in the context of the US talk of "secession" isn't a non-violent thing. Talk of uprisings and using the 2nd to overthrow the government can be handwaved as rhetoric and, honestly, fifty years from now we may be able to see that it is just rhetoric. But fifty years from now we might also be able to see where the seeds of some pretty violent acts were sown.

The problem is that from the contemporary perspective, it's very hard to know which words are going to spark something, which words are going to take root.

I think it's okay to be wary of violent rhetoric and to wonder just how far it will go. It's not to "physically violent on a significant scale" but it isn't just "trying to enact retarded policies."

Shot From Guns
07-29-2010, 12:41 PM
Tell you what--if you're right, I'll happily split half of my canned goods with you while we huddle in a bomb shelter in the hopes of avoiding the worst of the nuclear fallout. But if I'm right, you have to look me up if we're not still both posting on this board so I can point and laugh at you. For, like, an hour straight.