Nevada Senate 2010: Reid vs. Angle

[Snowboarder Bo]

This race is interesting (and interested in) enough that I thought it should have it's own thread.

Certainly Sharron Angle is a fantastic quote generating machine, or has been in the past, and it would be useful and fun to have one place to go to find everything she says. Of course, the bar is already set high this year by her fellow Republicans (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZezfjWox5s).

You know, before we all started having health care, in the olden days, our grandparents, they would bring a chicken to the doctor....

And now that Reid knows she will be his opponent he's ramped up his media machine so this would be a good place to keep tabs on what he says as well.

Personally, I said it a year or two ago in a GD thread: no way Reid doesn't get re-elected. The Republicans have no one of any substance (or sanity) to run against him. I mean this is the best they could come up with, because no way in hell could our Republican governor win. We loathe him.

[boytyperanma]

I'm pretty confident Reid will win. He is a Democrat though, never underestimate their ability to fuck up a sure thing.

[Biggirl]

Reid was never a sure thing. He is disliked by both Democrats and Republicans. When Angle won the nomination, some polls had her ahead by as much as 12 points. And then she started talking.

Well, she talked for a little while and then started running away from reporters. I think she hasn't been interviewed since this unfortunate one on June 29th (http://www.mynews4.com/story.php?id=21303).

[gonzomax]

Ried has the charisma of a guppy. But Angle is an idiot. He was vulnerable until they wound up picking her. She is way too stupid to get elected. Although it would not be the first time, there is Sarah. If Angle and Palin had a discussion. it would require subtitles to turn it into English .

[Frank]

If there is one single Democratic Senator that I would cheer the losing of his seat . . . well, hell, why be coy?

I would have been delighted if Reid had lost this election. Sadly, that appears to be increasingly unlikely. I now hope for a coup in the Senate leadership vote in January.

While Reid is a fine Democratic Senator, he is a horrible Senate majority leader. Horrible.

[Chronos]

Ried has the charisma of a guppy.Am I the only one who misread this as "puppy"? Because that'd actually be pretty good.

[Simplicio]

Myself and his mother seem to be the only people in America who like Sen Reid, so I'm happy to see his campaign pull itself out of near death. I think he's done well in a difficult job.

Polls are still close to even, though, and Nevada's economy is one of the worst in the country. So even with a crummy opponent, he has an uphill fight.

[Biggirl]

Holy Toledo! That's some House-of-Rep-style crazy. Or even worse, state senate dumb coming from Angle.

Angle on Fox News Reporting (http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/node/38746)



Cameron: There was a tremendous amount of discussion about Sharron Angle’s taking the defensive posture.

Angle: We needed to have the press be our friend.

Cameron: Wait a minute! Hold on a second… to be your friend?

Angle: Well truly…

Cameron: It sounds lame…

Angle: Well, no, no, we wanted them to ask the questions we want to answer so that they report the news the way we want it to be reported and when I get on a show and I say send me money to SharronAngle.com, so that your listeners will know that if they want to support me they need to go to SharronAngle.com.

You know what? I take that back. She's not dumb. She just honest. It's so rare to see honesty in a politician these days, I mistook it for insanity.

[Gangster Octopus]

Holy Toledo! That's some House-of-Rep-style crazy. Or even worse, state senate dumb coming from Angle.

Angle on Fox News Reporting (http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/node/38746)



Cameron: There was a tremendous amount of discussion about Sharron Angle’s taking the defensive posture.

Angle: We needed to have the press be our friend.

Cameron: Wait a minute! Hold on a second… to be your friend?

Angle: Well truly…

Cameron: It sounds lame…

Angle: Well, no, no, we wanted them to ask the questions we want to answer so that they report the news the way we want it to be reported and when I get on a show and I say send me money to SharronAngle.com, so that your listeners will know that if they want to support me they need to go to SharronAngle.com.

You know what? I take that back. She's not dumb. She just honest. It's so rare to see honesty in a politician these days, I mistook it for insanity.


Wow, all I have to say to that video is, "Bwah?!"

[BobLibDem]

It's obvious that God wants Reid to win this election, otherwise why would He bother creating Sharron Angle? She makes Rand Paul look like a great statesman. She makes Sarah Palin look like a policy wonk. Good heavens, what were Nevada voters thinking to nominate her?

What's with the hate for Reid? Yeah, Nevada's economy is tanking. Offhand, I'd say it's because with the US economy in shambles, people have less discretionary income to come to Vegas and gamble. I don't see how people expect their US senator to keep unemployment in a state from rising.

[gonzomax]

Senators can to little to counteract national unemployment problems. When states are suffering from out sourcing and national problems, the state politicians take a lot of heat, But they really don't have the power to overcome the problems.
Governors take the same heat. Many incumbents are in trouble for an economy they are powerless to change.

[Digital Stimulus]

She makes Sarah Palin look like a policy wonk.
Now, you take that back! The very idea is making my head hurt.
Offhand, I'd say it's because with the US economy in shambles, people have less discretionary income to come to Vegas and gamble.
You left out that Nevada has one of the hardest-hit real-estate markets.

And everyone knows the real estate market cratering at the end of 2007 is Obama's fault. Er...Reid's fault. Ummm...dammit.

Angle for Senate 2010! : pukey smilie :

[DMark]

I like Harry Reid - actually met him once and had a chance to talk one-on-one for awhile.

Here in Nevada, voters are a fickle bunch and I think they don't look at the big picture.

Harry Reid is the Majority Leader in the Senate! Does anyone in Nevada really think someone (especially idiot Sharron Angle) could possibly have any more pull and power in Washington that Harry does?! This is a guy who has Obama on his speed dial - literally.

You might not like everything Democrats are doing and disagree with some of the bills or methods; but do Nevadans really think it isn't advantageous to have a Senator with that much power in DC?

We'll see what happens, but right now I have no idea how this election is going to turn out. Polls show Harry climbing - with a slight lead at this point. However, it is all going to come down to turnout. If the Republicans and their fellow teabaggers show up in droves, and complacent Dems stay at home, Harry could be in trouble.

[gonzomax]

A lot of repubs are going to vote for Angle. It is amazing. She is dumber than Palin . But they will find someway to work around the obvious and ugly truth.

[Snowboarder Bo]

phew!

thought I was gonna be late with this stuff!

Story here (http://www.lvrj.com/news/angle-s-religious-zeal-criticized-100013054.html).

We have become a country entrenched in idolatry, and that idolatry is the dependency upon our government. We're supposed to depend upon God for our protection and our provision and for our daily bread, not our government.

That's from an interview back in April with TruNews Christian Radio. Not sure if it was the same interview, but in April she also said:

These programs that you mentioned -- that Obama has going with Reid and Pelosi pushing them forward -- are all entitlement programs built to make government our God. And that's really what's happening in this country is a violation of the First Commandment.

First Commandment? whuuuuuu? I don't think I have to pay attention to that one, since I'M NOT A FUCKING CHRISTIAN, bitch.

Reid's campaign, of course, is making hay every day with Angle's own words. And the irony of that makes me laugh, so in general, I approve of Sharron Angle continuing to open her fucking mouth.

[gonzomax]

Can't wait for them to debate.

[thelurkinghorror]

I get mailings from Reid every four days or so. His campaign is "Sharron Angle's 40 Dangerous Ideas" or some other number. He highlights the nutty shit she's said. I was planning on sitting this election out or voting third party. That's become much less likely every day.

[Snowboarder Bo]

I get mailings from Reid every four days or so. His campaign is "Sharron Angle's 40 Dangerous Ideas" or some other number. He highlights the nutty shit she's said. I was planning on sitting this election out or voting third party. That's become much less likely every day.

Why?

[Chronos]

So, if she gets elected, she's going to forgo her salary, right? Because otherwise the government would be providing her daily bread, and she'd just be joining in the idolatry.

Oh, and make sure to tell the NRA, too, that instead of shooting in self-defense, you should just pray at attackers. God will protect you.

[thelurkinghorror]

I get mailings from Reid every four days or so. His campaign is "Sharron Angle's 40 Dangerous Ideas" or some other number. He highlights the nutty shit she's said. I was planning on sitting this election out or voting third party. That's become much less likely every day.

Why?

Which part? The fact that the election is going from "2 people I don't care about" to "2 people I don't care about, except one is utterly nuts" is the main thing.

[Snowboarder Bo]

Why?

Which part? The fact that the election is going from "2 people I don't care about" to "2 people I don't care about, except one is utterly nuts" is the main thing.

That.

I confess to wondering greatly how much success Reid's campaign will have getting people to actually pay attention to their strategy (which is mostly just pointing and saying "listen to what Sharron Angle said about ---") given the political history and climate in Nevada.

I mean, there's a bunch of people here who HATE him with the fury in Marilyn Quayle's eyes, and I know they will largely be immune to the Reid campaign's tactics. But we also have a lot of moderates who are fairly new to the state, and a lot of them are approaching this election with pretty much a blank slate for both of these candidates, and I've been wondering how the rhetoric has been being assimilated by that bloc.

[DMark]

Here (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38594636) is an interesting article about Sharron Angle's views, according to a survey she filled out.
Against Gay adoption, against all abortions, against Federal funding of schools, thinks churches should be able to be politically active and lots more fun facts.

[Snowboarder Bo]

I found this WaPo op/ed piece (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/08/sharron_angle_i_wouldnt_take_m.html), which also includes a helpful link to the questionnaire itself (.pdf!) (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/Angle-Questionnaire080510.pdf).

Angle laid out this position in a candidate questionnaire that she filled out for the Washington-based Government is not God PAC.

In question 35A of the questionnaire, Angle was asked:

Would you refuse PAC money from those who are fundamentally opposed to your views on social issues?

Angle checked the Yes box. The questionnaire then asked:

In reference to question 35A, Intel Corporation supports "equal rights for gays" and offers benefits to "partners" of homosexual employees. Would you refuse funds from this corporate PAC?

Angle again checked the Yes box.

Note the name of the PAC, btw.

[BrainGlutton]

Can't wait for them to debate.

I wonder if Angle will try to duck that . . .

If not, it's gonna be one hell of a beatdown.

[BobLibDem]

Can't wait for them to debate.

That would have all the drama of a boxing match between Mike Tyson and Stephen Hawking.

[BrainGlutton]

Can't wait for them to debate.

That would have all the drama of a boxing match between Mike Tyson and Stephen Hawking.

Yeah, like Mondale v. Reagan or Dukakis v. Bush or Gore v. W . . . but look how those turned out . . .

[Mosier]

Reid is going to lose in November. Sharron "dismantle the government" Angle has the support of the people she wants to destroy, namely elderly people dependent on Social Security, the unemployed, and people dependent on Medicare. Most polls show the race is not even close. I'm predicting a landslide 10+ victory for Angle, and I'm just praying she doesn't get a chance to do too much damage before Nevada wakes up.

[Simplicio]

Most polls show the race is not even close.

Most polls I've seen have had Reid up by a few points. The first few hits googling "Reid Angle poll" have the race within two or three points, with Reid being in a slight lead in most of them.

[Zakalwe]

Reid is going to lose in November. Sharron "dismantle the government" Angle has the support of the people she wants to destroy, namely elderly people dependent on Social Security, the unemployed, and people dependent on Medicare. Most polls show the race is not even close. I'm predicting a landslide 10+ victory for Angle, and I'm just praying she doesn't get a chance to do too much damage before Nevada wakes up.Huh? Even Rasmussen (usually the friendliest of 'Pub pollsters) has Reid up by 2.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2010/senate/2010_nevada_senate_race.html

[Mosier]

Reid is going to lose in November. Sharron "dismantle the government" Angle has the support of the people she wants to destroy, namely elderly people dependent on Social Security, the unemployed, and people dependent on Medicare. Most polls show the race is not even close. I'm predicting a landslide 10+ victory for Angle, and I'm just praying she doesn't get a chance to do too much damage before Nevada wakes up.Huh? Even Rasmussen (usually the friendliest of 'Pub pollsters) has Reid up by 2.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2010/senate/2010_nevada_senate_race.html

The polls I was recalling were Angle +12 shortly after she secured the nomination. I'm surprised it has swung so far the other way in such a short time.

[Zakalwe]

The polls I was recalling were Angle +12 shortly after she secured the nomination. I'm surprised it has swung so far the other way in such a short time.This is happening in a number of races. Once these hard-rights actually get in front of the voters, the support is dropping. It's hard to tell old people that you think the government is spending too much money on them and keep their vote.

[Snowboarder Bo]

Huh? Even Rasmussen (usually the friendliest of 'Pub pollsters) has Reid up by 2.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2010/senate/2010_nevada_senate_race.html

The polls I was recalling were Angle +12 shortly after she secured the nomination. I'm surprised it has swung so far the other way in such a short time.

The primary was 2 months ago. That's 40% of the campaign days.

[gonzomax]

Republicans will still vote for her. They will find a way to justify it. She may join the Bachmann /Palin right wing group of retarded female politicians. She would be a great addition.

[Snowboarder Bo]

Jon Ralston, one of our excellent local political writers, wrote a terrific piece (http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/aug/08/voters-blinding-hatred-harry-reid/) about what I described above in post #21.

It’s almost preposterous, right? Sharron Angle defeating Harry Reid? Come on.

But here’s the rub: People hate Reid. I tell my daughter never to use that verb, but it’s the only word for it. It seethes, blinds, sputters.

Ralston takes the time to acknowledge there are things that could be seen as legitimate gripes, of a sort, only to conclude

But it is profoundly irrational, too, much of the time, and thus impossible to change with a “She’s from Crazytown” campaign. And that’s what keeps the Reid folks up at night, knowing no matter how skillful they are — and he has the best campaign team Nevada has seen — the Reid-haters will not listen.

And that's what's making this race so much fun (and of so much import) to watch. Despite the fact that it should be a lock, it isn't. There's always the chance that we're going to voluntarily hand over authority to a lunatic. I'm not saying Mrs. Angle is a lunatic, I'm just saying that that chance is always there in a democracy.

And I can't quite put my finger on why, but I think the chance is higher in a democracy where Sharron Angle is running for office.

[gonzomax]

How can any one hate Reid. he is the epitome of a boring politician. his speech is a slow low drawl that is mind numbing. He elicits somnambulism, not anger. You don't have to count sheep to sleep, when a Reid speech is handy. Yet Angle is a nut. She makes Palin look like a serious politician. Angle says something new and stupid every day. Angle thinks health care is against the first commandment for crying out loud.

[Merijeek]

How can any one hate Reid. he is the epitome of a boring politician. his speech is a slow low drawl that is mind numbing. He elicits somnambulism, not anger. You don't have to count sheep to sleep, when a Reid speech is handy. Yet Angle is a nut. She makes Palin look like a serious politician. Angle says something new and stupid every day. Angle thinks health care is against the first commandment for crying out loud.

Well, ignoring the crazy of Angle, I hate Reid because he has been such a complete and total pussy during his time as Senate Majority Leader. He had sixty Senators in his caucus and his constant refrain was "Gosh, we can't get anything done!". Perhaps Pelosi should have loaned him some of her extra testicles.

I also think that people should stop looking at Angle as a completely looney bitch (she is), and start looking at the GOP and Nevada voters and ask themselves how someone like her can get so close that she's got a chance at a Senate seat. They also need to ask themselves what it says about those voters that she says the things she does (ie. the crazy shit) in the expectation that it will HELP her get elected.

-Joe

Of course, I don't live in Nevada so my opinion of Reid is completely irrelevant.

[gonzomax]

Reid ,like all leaders, calculates votes before he tries to introduce any bills. The Repubs vote as a block of 40 forcing a filibuster ratio to pass anything. All they have to do is buy one Dem and a bill fails. The lobbyists pound the senators to vote their way. Since huge amounts of money are needed to run a campaign in America, they are able to be bought . Our system is run by big money.
Angle should embarrass the Arizonans. But she will get a lot of votes. She is a demonstration of how bad our political system has become. She is totally incompetent and stupid. Yet many Repubs will still cast a vote for her.

[Chronos]

Angle should embarrass the Arizonans.And the Ohioans and the New Yorkers and the Virginians and all other Americans. But I think she ought to especially embarrass the Nevadans.

[Gyrate]

I was watching CNN recently and Wolf B was talking with some other guy about the Reid-Angle contest. I kept thinking that there was something really odd about the whole exchange - you'd get comments about how unpopular Reid was in the same breath as mentioning that he was ahead in the polls - until I finally realized that they wanted Reid to lose the race. And they wanted this not because of any political bias unlike some other networks we could name or because of the relative merits and demerits of the two candidates but simply because "House Majority Leader Loses Seat to Oddball Challenger" is a much more exciting story than "Boring Incumbent Wins Against Oddball Challenger". That was the underlying theme of the conversation - what a big story it would be if Reid lost.

Welcome to the post-Obama media landscape, folks. I guess after the whole "First Black President" thing it's hard to face covering an election cycle without some big new hook to hang your round-the-clock blathering on.

[Gyrate]

Bah. Hit the time limit in mid-edit.

[Snowboarder Bo]

I don't know how anyone of Hispanic heritage could be a Republican, OK?This happened last week (http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/aug/11/reid-questions-hispanic-support-for-republicans/), but it was only over the weekend that the spinmeisters really got the story out there and, IMO, manufactured some outrage about it.

I think the comment is a non-issue. I don't find it offensive or read any racist intent in the comment. What I think the detractors really don't like is that they know this is a wedge they can't displace or remove without bringing their whole border wall arguments of smoke and mirrors and cards falling down around them.

Like Betsy Bailey's assertion over the weekend:

My government should protect me so I can feel safe on my own property. That's my right as an American. I should feel safe on my own property. (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_BORDER_TEA_PARTY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-08-16-03-37-35)

Yes, you should feel safe on your own property. No, that isn't your right as an American.

It's people with these same types of reasoning powers that are squawking over Reid's comment last week. It's as if they are setting a goal and then seeing the world as if it was in support of that goal. I suppose that's a loopy kind of self-determinism that I might have felt praiseworthy in some way except that they keep trying to turn that loopy self-determination into loopy directions for huge numbers of people.

Right now, people are harshing on Reid for his comments, but I think it's all just brief demented arias for the choir. It's an excuse to make noise and prolly helps with fundraising. After all, there's no one to be offended at this one except the Republicans, since they were the ones being called "undesirable", and well, duh that Harry Reid doesn't speak well of the Republican Party. Duh.

[Simplicio]

Well, ignoring the crazy of Angle, I hate Reid because he has been such a complete and total pussy during his time as Senate Majority Leader. He had sixty Senators in his caucus and his constant refrain was "Gosh, we can't get anything done!". Perhaps Pelosi should have loaned him some of her extra testicles.

Eh, Pelosi comes off looking better then Reid because she has a much easier job. She can loose 35 Dems in any vote and still win against a lockstep GOP. Reid can loose zero Dems at times when he's had sixty, and needs too woo at least one Republican at times when he's just had 59 votes.

And while people might berate him for being "weak" or a "pussy", he can't actually physically beat Joe Liebermann or Ben Nelson to get their votes, and if he can't get their votes he can't pass any legislation. He really doesn't have much choice but to appease them and play to their egos, a "non-pussy" who stripped them of their comittee assignments would've come off looking stronger and might be doing better in polls, but he also wouldn't have passed the Stimulus Package, Health-care Reform, Unemployment Extensions or Finance Reform.

[Gyrate]

"Lose", dammit, not "loose". <gnaws on Simplicio's head>

I would love to see Reid hitting Lieberman and Nelson (my Senator, alas) with a stick. Hell, I'd buy tickets.

[Simplicio]

I would love to see Reid hitting Lieberman and Nelson (my Senator, alas) with a stick. Hell, I'd buy tickets.

And I loved having having the Stimulus Package, Health-care Reform, Unemployment Extensions and Finance Reform all pass.

[Frank]

And while people might berate him for being "weak" or a "pussy", he can't actually physically beat Joe Liebermann or Ben Nelson to get their votes, and if he can't get their votes he can't pass any legislation.
Nice little earmark you've got there. Be a shame if anything happened to it.

[ElvisL1ves]

And I loved having having the Stimulus Package, Health-care Reform, Unemployment Extensions and Finance Reform all pass.Me too, but I hated having them so badly weakened in a futile attempt at ass-kissing.

[gonzomax]

As long as tenure figures in the committee seats, it would be flat out stupid to vote Angle in for a guy who has the power to help his state. Angle is not only retarded but she has no power. She would start at the bottom offending every politician with firing synapses. She would be a horrible disaster humiliating the entire state.

[Simplicio]

Nice little earmark you've got there. Be a shame if anything happened to it.

Are you saying the Dems should've used earmarks to get votes? The Dems were pretty open about doing exactly that (and the GOP was pretty open about pointing it out).

Me too, but I hated having them so badly weakened in a futile attempt at ass-kissing.

Futile? It would've been futile if the bills didn't pass, but they did so it was the opposite of futile.

I would've prefered stronger bills as well, but the bills that did make it through were good, we would be a lot worse off without them. Certainly Harry Reid has been much more successful in the last two years in passing progressive legislation then Bush and his GOP majority Congress were in passing Conservative priorities in the six years they dominated gov't.

[Gyrate]

I would love to see Reid hitting Lieberman and Nelson (my Senator, alas) with a stick. Hell, I'd buy tickets.

And I loved having having the Stimulus Package, Health-care Reform, Unemployment Extensions and Finance Reform all pass.Can't we do both? We could reduce the deficit by putting the beatings on pay-per-view.

[Merijeek]

And while people might berate him for being "weak" or a "pussy", he can't actually physically beat Joe Liebermann or Ben Nelson to get their votes, and if he can't get their votes he can't pass any legislation.
Nice little earmark you've got there. Be a shame if anything happened to it.

Did you know that Bush managed to get a whole lot passed and he didn't have anywhere near 60 GOPers in the Senate? It's true!

-Joe

[BobLibDem]

Nice little earmark you've got there. Be a shame if anything happened to it.

Did you know that Bush managed to get a whole lot passed and he didn't have anywhere near 60 GOPers in the Senate? It's true!

-Joe

Only because Democrats didn't put party before country and pledge to filibuster everything that Republicans proposed.

[Simplicio]

Did you know that Bush managed to get a whole lot passed and he didn't have anywhere near 60 GOPers in the Senate? It's true!

-Joe

Not really, to repeat what I said above

Certainly Harry Reid has been much more successful in the last two years in passing progressive legislation then Bush and his GOP majority Congress were in passing Conservative priorities in the six years they dominated gov't.

Bush's main legislative accomplishments were basically (fairly flawed) progressive legislation, Sabarnes-Oxley (Sp?) the NCLB act and the Medicare drug benefit. He passed tax-cuts, but did so basically without paying for them, and passing no-pain money hand-outs isn't exactly hard to do. And even then, he couldn't defeat a filibuster to cut-taxes, so he had to have them sun-set after ten years.

Really, the only big Conservative Success I can think of that he got through was the Patriot Act, and that came on the heels of the huge popularity boost he got post-9/11.

Bush did achieve some conservative priorities other then tax-cuts while in office, but not legislative ones. He appointed conservative judges to the SCOTUS and elsewhere and he managed to use executive fiat to weaken regulatory rules. But his big pushes to get through actual conservative legislation (SS privatization, "tax-reform") fizziled without even making it to a vote.

[Merijeek]

Did you know that Bush managed to get a whole lot passed and he didn't have anywhere near 60 GOPers in the Senate? It's true!

-Joe

Only because Democrats didn't put party before country and pledge to filibuster everything that Republicans proposed.

You're right. Now pretend you're a Republican and tell me if Bush was effective. Therefore, Republican, you'll be happy to vote for him and his crew again.

All I've seen from Reid is watered-down legislation and constant hand-wringing about how we "just can't get anything done".

Dubya managed it with lower numbers. By my feelings, he got pure shit enacted, but he did get it.

I would be happy for McConnell to die screaming tomorrow - but that doesn't change the fact that he managed to turn a 20 Senator deficit into an advantage. Meanwhile, Reid turned a 20 Senator surplus into a terrible disadvantage.

Is it any wonder that there's such dissatisfaction toward the Democrats right now?

-Joe

[The Understander]

Sure. What you demonstrate here, Merijeek, is the reason why the lockstep filibuster and utter partisanship is so effective for Republicans and why they are smart to do it. In the end, most people don't do the critical thought necessary to examine why a particular political outcome occurs, only what occurs.

All it took was one Joe Lieberman, one Ben Nelson, and many people who call themselves progressives and liberals get frustrated and sit home, and you get GOP gains by default. No wonder the tea party gets attention in disproportion to their numbers, and you get Sharron Angles as possible Senators. I hate to say it, but this proves that many of us on the left and center (not just the leaders, but the rank-and-file) are the ones that just don't get it when it comes to playing the power game.

It's well and good to handwave the reasons why Senator Reid has to play political games, but it seems counterproductive to me to therefore sit home (and give more power to a group who will do the opposite of what you want, with greater efficiency).

[BobLibDem]

No question, Republicans play the power game better than Democrats. While I may support the Democratic agenda, I freely admit we suck donkey dick at getting it passed. Instead of making an address to Congress and let Joe Wilson take the limelight, Obama should have made the health care case to the people on day 1. This would have pre-empted the creation of the Tea Party. Reid can count noses. He knows he needs 60 and that the other side has 41. Going over the dead bodies of the 41 is more than Reid can do, he needs the bully pulpit of the president to do it, while Obama chases the elusive unicorn known as bipartisanship.

[Simplicio]

Dubya managed it with lower numbers. By my feelings, he got pure shit enacted, but he did get it.

Specifically what do you think he got enacted legislatively that would make Conservatives happy? Anything other then tax-cuts (which weren't subject to filibuster) and the Patriot Act?

Again, for all the talk of the 2000-2006 Senate playing hardball, they didn't really do much as far as putative GOP priorities were concerned. Reid has been far more successful the Frist or Lott were. The Health Care Act and Financial Reform aren't perfect, but they're probably the biggest legislative successes either party has had since the Johnson Administration.

[The Understander]

Dubya managed it with lower numbers. By my feelings, he got pure shit enacted, but he did get it.

Specifically what do you think he got enacted legislatively that would make Conservatives happy? Anything other then tax-cuts (which weren't subject to filibuster) and the Patriot Act?

Again, for all the talk of the 2000-2006 Senate playing hardball, they didn't really do much as far as putative GOP priorities were concerned. Reid has been far more successful the Frist or Lott were. The Health Care Act and Financial Reform aren't perfect, but they're probably the biggest legislative successes either party has had since the Johnson Administration.

The AUMF comes to mind, as well as all subsequent war funding bills. But that doesn't change the thrust of your point, which is well taken. We mustn't forget that this particular Congress and Administration have had the successes you listed, and this despite the anger of the country over the debacle that was the Bush Administration and his rubber-stamp GOP congress being successfully transferred to them.

[Chronos]

For that matter, the Democrats have been better than the Republicans at getting Republican priorities passed, too. The health care bill, for instance, was the strongest anti-abortion legislation we've seen in decades, and it would have been stronger yet if the Republicans hadn't done everything they could to weaken it.

[gonzomax]

Did you know that Bush managed to get a whole lot passed and he didn't have anywhere near 60 GOPers in the Senate? It's true!

-Joe

Not really, to repeat what I said above

Certainly Harry Reid has been much more successful in the last two years in passing progressive legislation then Bush and his GOP majority Congress were in passing Conservative priorities in the six years they dominated gov't.

Bush's main legislative accomplishments were basically (fairly flawed) progressive legislation, Sabarnes-Oxley (Sp?) the NCLB act and the Medicare drug benefit. He passed tax-cuts, but did so basically without paying for them, and passing no-pain money hand-outs isn't exactly hard to do. And even then, he couldn't defeat a filibuster to cut-taxes, so he had to have them sun-set after ten years.

Really, the only big Conservative Success I can think of that he got through was the Patriot Act, and that came on the heels of the huge popularity boost he got post-9/11.

Bush did achieve some conservative priorities other then tax-cuts while in office, but not legislative ones. He appointed conservative judges to the SCOTUS and elsewhere and he managed to use executive fiat to weaken regulatory rules. But his big pushes to get through actual conservative legislation (SS privatization, "tax-reform") fizziled without even making it to a vote.
Some dems actually said they did not approve of Bush's appointments but felt he won the election so he gets to have his way. The repubs don't have that feeling. They got together as a bloc to stop everything Obama would propose. The dems keep mistaking politics as a gentlemens game with rules. The repubs never quit fighting and lying to get their way.
Obama has not even broomed all the attorney generals and judges that Bush appointed. The repubs saw the power of state and local politics. Obama seems distracted .

[Snowboarder Bo]

The repubs don't have that feeling. They got together as a bloc to stop everything Obama would propose. The dems keep mistaking politics as a gentlemens game with rules. The repubs never quit fighting and lying to get their way.

Another difference, and one that goes hand-in-hand with this is that I think many if not most Republicans see politics (and everything else) as a contest that can be "won". I mean, I think that's why they were so upset by Clinton in '92 and are even more upset by Obama, is that I don't think they understand well some of the basic concepts involved in participatory democracies, like the fact that politics is an on-going game that will never end unless the republic does. There is no end goal that anyone has, yet they are always talking about mythical end-goals that they are fighting against.

Look at all the things we're involved in, mostly at Republican behest, that are conflicts that can never be "won".

That's some seriously flawed reasoning on display, IMO, to simply label everything as "for" or "a'gin", "friend" or "foe"*. Sharron Angle displays this kind of simplistic, flawed logic and attitude like it was some new red jacket fashion trend.

ETA:*I left off "us" or "them".

[Knorf]

There is no end goal that anyone has, yet they are always talking about mythical end-goals that they are fighting against.

I agree with you in general, but wanted to add that a recent, frightening, GOP end-goal was the formation of a "permanent Republican majority."

In other words, a de facto one-party state.

[gonzomax]

There are Arizonans on this board and I bet some will vote for Angle. Many say they vote for the best "man" when they vote. Angle makes that defense impossible. They will be voting on right wing/tea bagger ideology. They will have an idiot in charge for 6 years.

[gonzomax]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/19/sharron-angle-campaigned-_n_687510.html Apparently she has always been a bigot and a nut.

[Kyla]

There are Arizonans on this board and I bet some will vote for Angle. Many say they vote for the best "man" when they vote. Angle makes that defense impossible. They will be voting on right wing/tea bagger ideology. They will have an idiot in charge for 6 years.

Dude, this is the second time in this thread you've made this mistake. Arizona and Nevada are not synonyms, they're actually two separate places.

[Chronos]

Just remember that Nevada's the one that's got that funny angle in its border.

[gonzomax]

Sorry. But they look the same from here.

[thelurkinghorror]

Must be hard to see from over there in the Land of 10,000 Lakes.

[Merijeek]

Must be hard to see from over there in the Land of 10,000 Lakes.

He's not in Wisconsin!

-Joe

[Chronos]

As opposed to the Land of 10,000,000 Flakes, which is right next to Nevada.

[Frank]

Sorry. But they look the same from here.
What's your excuse for popping into a thread that is clearly labelled as being about the Nevada Senate race, and bashing Arizonans for voting for the Nevadan candidate? Neither state, by the way, will be electing an idiot in charge for the next six years. Both states have four year terms for governor, and that also is not the focus of the thread.

[thelurkinghorror]

Sorry. But they look the same from here.
What's your excuse for popping into a thread that is clearly labelled as being about the Nevada Senate race, and bashing Arizonans for voting for the Nevadan candidate? Neither state, by the way, will be electing an idiot in charge for the next six years. Both states have four year terms for governor, and that also is not the focus of the thread.

On that latter note, Republican Nevadans had the opportunity to reelect an idiot in charge, and declined to do so, instead opting for a Hispanic moderate*.

*I think he's considered one. Rory "No Relation to Harry" Reid of course portrays him as far right, but Sandoval is not a Tea Partier.

[Kyla]

Sorry. But they look the same from here.

Aren't you in Michigan?

Because I am too. And yet I can still tell the difference between Nevada and Arizona.

[BrainGlutton]

Sorry. But they look the same from here.

Actually, they're variant names for the same place. You know, like England and Britain, or Holland and the Netherlands, or China and Japan.

[Chronos]

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

[BrainGlutton]

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

That was the Jews, remember?! "Torah, Torah, Torah!"

[Snowboarder Bo]

Politico has it here (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/41399.html). The LVRJ ran a story today as well, but I won't even post a link to it because I don't want to find myself or the Dope being sued over it (http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/jul/16/3-suits-over-alleged-r-j-copyright-infringements-b/). If you want to read that one, you'll have to google for it yourself.

Anyway, the apparent sticking point was that Reid wanted to set the date for 21 October, to be sure that the Senate would have adjourned. The problem is that early voting in Nevada starts 16 October, and Angle wanted the debate held before voting begins (of course).

So now the debate is set for 14 October, that being one week after the Senate is scheduled to adjourn.

Voters will get 1 hour at 6pm to watch the two answer questions in what seems to be a pretty standard format with Mitch Fox of PBS moderating. C-SPAN may cover it as well.

I say, good. Finally. A chance to see and hear both of them unedited is long overdue for Nevadans, and if the rest of the country wants to watch our politics this year too, well, I think it will at least be entertaining, just maybe in an old Chinese curse kind of way.

[Cisco]

This reminds me of when I moved to Phoenix and my best friend wrote a song about it with the line, "why'd your punk ass have to move to Nevada?"

[Snowboarder Bo]

Making the news today is a story about a radio interview that Sharron Angle did (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/08/sharron_angle_agrees_we_have_d.html) with Bill Manders, a conservative radio talk show host in Reno, NV.

MANDERS: We have domestic enemies. We have home-born homegrown enemies in our system. And I for one think we have some of those enemies in the walls of the Senate and the Congress.

ANGLE: Yes. I think you're right, Bill.

Harry Reid released this statement:

Sharron Angle's rhetoric is irresponsible and over the top. Let me be very clear. While I may have some differences of opinion with my Republican colleagues in the Senate, I have never questioned their patriotism. For Sharron Angle to agree that any of them -- Republican or Democrat -- is an enemy of the state is not only an insult to every United States Senator, it's a disgrace to our country. If she is going to use such rhetoric, she has an obligation to name names and explain to the American people exactly who she thinks is a domestic enemy. Reid also apparently has 2 new video ads which ask Mrs. Angle to please identify who she thinks are the domestic enemies currently sitting in Congress. Her campaign has responded with "Sharron Angle never said we have domestic enemies in Congress".

The debate is gonna be a doozy if anyone ever asks her to explain what she means by anything she ever says. I don't think she can do it and be coherent at the same time.

[Gyrate]

Her campaign has responded with "Sharron Angle never said we have domestic enemies in Congress".
Technically speaking, she didn't say it. She just agreed with the guy who did.

[Snowboarder Bo]

Her campaign has responded with "Sharron Angle never said we have domestic enemies in Congress".
Technically speaking, she didn't say it. She just agreed with the guy who did.

Right, but technically speaking, no one has said she said it. That's why the denials from Ms. Angle's camp are so funny.

There was a poll in the paper today (the LVRJ) where they asked people if they would rather someone else was nominated than Reid and Angle.

Reid had 18% of likely Reid voters say they wished a different Democrat was nominated.

Angle had 66% of likely Angle voters say they wished a different Republican was nominated.

If Angle can't even convince the flock who are already commited to voting for her that it's a good idea to do so, there's no way in hell she's going to convince people who aren't already idealogically sympatico to check the box next to her name. And I can't help but think that many principled Republicans will see that this lady would be a disastrous puppet in the Senate and thus Reid will gain votes that Angle loses. To me, that says this will be a victory for Reid in November.

[gonzomax]

Sorry. But they look the same from here.

Actually, they're variant names for the same place. You know, like England and Britain, or Holland and the Netherlands, or China and Japan.

You do know how much they scream about porous borders, don't you?

[Gyrate]

And I can't help but think that many principled Republicans will see that this lady would be a disastrous puppet in the Senate and thus Reid will gain votes that Angle loses. I suspect they'll simply not vote at all, although it'll still likely throw the contest to Reid.

[Chronos]

Nevada actually has a literal "None of the above" option on their ballots. And yes, Reid is hoping that "nobody" will split the vote with Angle.

[Snowboarder Bo]

The LVRJ did a feature on the 2 candidates today, asking them each a handful of questions and printing their responses. Most of it was tepid campaign rhetoric, but I did notice that Ms. Angle's foreign policy would seemingly consist of listening to our military leaders. Every question that touched on any other country and she whipped out the "I would listen to our military commanders" line.

We really don't want our military conducting ALL of our foreign relations, Ms. Angle. There's a reason we have the State Dept.

[Snowboarder Bo]

Nevada actually has a literal "None of the above" option on their ballots. And yes, Reid is hoping that "nobody" will split the vote with Angle.

Correct, but you didn't explain how our law works: the candidate with the most votes wins. NOTA is just a protest slot on our ballots; a candidate wins every race.

[Chronos]

Right, I'm just saying that if a lot of folks don't want to vote for either, they have a very formal and official way of doing so.

[legalsnugs]

Sorry. But they look the same from here.

Actually, they're variant names for the same place. You know, like England and Britain, or Holland and the Netherlands, or China and Japan.

Okay, I LOL'd out loud.

[Snowboarder Bo]

We had 2 new Angle stories here today.

First up, Ms. Angle is trying to distance herself from comments made in April (http://www.lasvegassun.com/blogs/damon-political-report/2010/aug/31/angle-explains/) about how the nation's entitlement programs broke the Christian religion's First Commandment.

Asked to clarify those comments, Ms. Angle first replied:

That’s not what I said.

She continued, as if it was actually explaining anything:

You speak in the language of the folks that you’re communicating with and I was speaking in their language. And the language that I used is that our country, we have become a country that has put our faith, not in 'God we trust', which is on our money, but in government we trust and that is what I was referring to. We have allowed government to take the place of God.

Let's back up to "that's not what I said" for a second.

Here's what she says she didn't say:

And these programs that you mentioned, that Obama has going with Reid and Pelosi pushing them forward, are all entitlement programs built to make government our God. And that’s really what’s happening in this country is a violation of the First Commandment.


The other development also involves something that Ms. Angle both did and did not say (http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/sep/03/sharron-angle-hit-r-j-copyright-lawsuit/): the Las Vegas Review-Journal has filed a copyright infringement suit against her.

The suit, filed in U.S. District Court in Las Vegas by Righthaven LLC, seeks damages of $150,000 against Angle personally and forfeiture of her website domain name sharronangle.com.

Y'all prolly thought I was joking earlier in the thread about not even posting links to LVRJ sites for fear of copyright lawsuits, dintcha?

[gonzomax]

Angle has a new ploy "earned media strategy ". She will not talk to any media that has shown to be tough or unfriendly. She is complaining that some media have "used her words against her'. Can't have that.
She had rejected debating Reid because she wants an "informed electorate". How does that make sense?

[legalsnugs]

Angle has a new ploy "earned media strategy ". She will not talk to any media that has shown to be tough or unfriendly. She is complaining that some media have "used her words against her'. Can't have that.
She had rejected debating Reid because she wants an "informed electorate". How does that make sense?

Last June, she said on on Face to Face that she wanted to debate Reid. "What I would like to see is Harry Reid come into this studio with you and I and have a true debate,” Angle said. On September 9, Harry Reid's peeps accepted the invitation to debate on Face to Face, and Team Angle agreed to a date. So, then, on that same day, Team Angle promptly withdrew. Two hours later, they sent out a press release saying Angle was going to debate at a high school.
“She’s going to be there by herself but they called it a free-flowing debate with Reid, which was totally disingenuous." Jon Ralston Cite (http://www.cjr.org/campaign_desk/not_happy_sharron.php).

Angle is not the only one who's nuts on Team Angle. Too bad. That would be one political debate I would pay to see!

[Ravenman]

She had rejected debating Reid because she wants an "informed electorate". How does that make sense?Reid's people had this quip in response to her cancelling the debate in order to promote "an informed electorate:"

"It takes an honest politician to acknowledge that listening to her for an hour would leave the populace less informed."

[gonzomax]

Angle may have been good looking when she was young. She may have been kind of acute.

[jayjay]

Angle may have been good looking when she was young. She may have been kind of acute.

Yeah, but she's become really obtuse now.

[foolsguinea]

It's obvious that God wants Reid to win this election, otherwise why would He bother creating Sharron Angle? She makes Rand Paul look like a great statesman. She makes Sarah Palin look like a policy wonk. Good heavens, what were Nevada voters thinking to nominate her?The US primary process has no method of selecting based on merit.

[Gyrate]

She had rejected debating Reid because she wants an "informed electorate". How does that make sense?Reid's people had this quip in response to her cancelling the debate in order to promote "an informed electorate:"

"It takes an honest politician to acknowledge that listening to her for an hour would leave the populace less informed."Zing!

That is a refreshingly clever comeback in the context of a political campaign.

[descamisado]

deleted.

[gonzomax]

Holy Toledo! That's some House-of-Rep-style crazy. Or even worse, state senate dumb coming from Angle.

Angle on Fox News Reporting (http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/node/38746)



Cameron: There was a tremendous amount of discussion about Sharron Angle’s taking the defensive posture.

Angle: We needed to have the press be our friend.

Cameron: Wait a minute! Hold on a second… to be your friend?

Angle: Well truly…

Cameron: It sounds lame…

Angle: Well, no, no, we wanted them to ask the questions we want to answer so that they report the news the way we want it to be reported and when I get on a show and I say send me money to SharronAngle.com, so that your listeners will know that if they want to support me they need to go to SharronAngle.com.

You know what? I take that back. She's not dumb. She just honest. It's so rare to see honesty in a politician these days, I mistook it for insanity.

That is why Fox Gnus was invented.

[ShibbOleth]

If I ran a media outlet, and this trend of politicians, who choose not to engage, because they deem me not to be their shill, became a problem, I would start to run whatever their opponent came up with:

Some claim that Ms Engel is a "syphilitic lunatic". Ms Engel did not directly refute the charges and declined comment.

[DiosaBellissima]

I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread--- as a Californian who comes to Vegas every two weeks for work, I'm inundated with this race for a week a month. No matter how much I try to describe its ridiculousness to my friends back home, nobody gets it. You guys get it and for that, I thank you.

[thelurkinghorror]

I saw my first Angle commercial a little while back. Her affect was so flat, I was expecting to count her blinks in Morse code, so that we can know she is safe and her captors have not yet brainwashed her. Perhaps they could train her to be a decent Senate candidate, but I'm not holding my breath.

[BrainGlutton]

Brawl erupts between Reid, Angle supporters at forum. (http://www.lvrj.com/news/fight-erupts-at-reid--angle-election-forum-103685344.html)

Interesting times.

[Fear Itself]

Angle talks trash about the GOP (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hy4nv8Esvj3roqI4XxtjipJEZYeQD9IL4M3O0?docId=D9IL4M3O0):
At one point she laments that the GOP leadership has "lost their standards, they've lost their principles." She refers derisively to "that good old boy thing" and depicts herself as an underdog David fighting Goliath — the constricting machinery of the national party. She tells Ashjian she wants the GOP leadership "to leave me alone," confident she knows how to defeat Reid.

Ashjian says that since 2001, he has considered Democrats and the GOP interchangeable.

"They are all thieves." Angle adds, "It's really been since 1991."

[Snowboarder Bo]

Sharron Angle caught on tape with the upstart (and perhaps unsane) Tea Party wannabe Scott Ashjian, describing why he should throw in the towel and throw his support her way. I guess she was trying to portray herself as the real outsider, even tho she's flying the Republican flag. The Republicans have lost their standards, they've lost their principles ... really that's why the machine in the Republican Party is fighting against me. They have never really gone along with lower taxes and less government. (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CAMPAIGN_DIGGING_DIRT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-10-04-19-02-03)

Reid's campaign used that to claim "Angle will say or do anything to get elected."

[Boyo Jim]

Sharron Angle caught on tape with the upstart (and perhaps unsane) Tea Party wannabe Scott Ashjian, describing why he should throw in the towel and throw his support her way. I guess she was trying to portray herself as the real outsider, even tho she's flying the Republican flag. The Republicans have lost their standards, they've lost their principles ... really that's why the machine in the Republican Party is fighting against me. They have never really gone along with lower taxes and less government. (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CAMPAIGN_DIGGING_DIRT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-10-04-19-02-03)

Reid's campaign used that to claim "Angle will say or do anything to get elected."

Jeez, that's almost the only quote of hers that I've heard that ISN'T insane. Reid probably says the same thing a dozen times a day.

[Snowboarder Bo]

This whole thing is so ludicrous and bizarre, it may take until the debate for all the fallout to hit the ground.

The chairman of the Tea Party of Nevada resigned Tuesday after a recording was made public capturing Republican Sharron Angle badmouthing GOP leaders during a meeting with the shadowy group's U.S. Senate candidate. (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEVADA_SENATE_TEA_PARTY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-10-05-16-07-46)

Syd James, the former Teabagger, has announced his support for Angle's candidacy. Oh, and he's real butthurt, too.

I gave the Angle campaign my word that this was to be a private meeting and not tape recorded. I feel my personal integrity and honor was violated when Scott taped what was to be a private conversation and then made it public.

I can understand why the Angle campaign feels that they were double-crossed. The Angle campaign trusted me and that trust was violated.

When told about the situation, Washington insiders played it off as not a big deal, but their words tell me that they are apparently unaware of what Mrs. Angle is all about:

There is always going to be a certain give and take. That's how the political system works.

One can only assume that Ms. Burnett is unaware of Sharron Angle's past voting record in the Nevada state legislature, or her commitment to adhere to those same standards should she win the US Senate election.

[Snowboarder Bo]

Brawl erupts between Reid, Angle supporters at forum. (http://www.lvrj.com/news/fight-erupts-at-reid--angle-election-forum-103685344.html)

Interesting times.

To be fair, it seems that an Angle supporter was being an ass, and it was him that threw the first couple of punches. The LV Sun ran a whole page of pictures, but I can't find them on their website.

I did find tho, that Sharron Angle has her own take on it:

Well I think this is a play right out of Saul Alinksky’s rule for radicals. What happens if you don’t want the news to report on the forum and the debate between the two contestants, you try to make a bigger news story. And the news story is the brawl, and so that’s what they did. They staged a fight, that’s the way that I felt it was going. There were two women that were actually looking for a fight, trying to get that to be the top news story and they succeeded. (http://www.lasvegassun.com/blogs/ralstons-flash/2010/sep/24/angle-says-women-staged-fight-detract-supposed-new/)

There's an audio clip on that site, too, if you want to hear her say it for yourself.

That's right, she now blames the fight on a long-dead politico and a desire to "cover-up" what really happened at the "debate" (where only 1 side was actually there).

To his credit, the host sort of tries to correct her, noting that published accounts tell of the man throwing 2 punches first.

I don’t want to sound macho but when I read the story, the woman said the man hit me first…I looked at the pictures and there’s a physicality that that doesn’t match up with the supposed reality that they were trying to sell out there.

But since when do logic, facts, evidence or even reality interfere with what Mrs. Angle (and others of her ilk) "just knows" is right?

[Ichbin Dubist]

Saul Alinsky? Wait until she gets her hands on a copy of Steal This Book.

[Snowboarder Bo]

Story here (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEVADA_SENATE_ANGLE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-10-07-19-04-16).

I keep hearing about Muslims wanting to take over the United States ... on a TV program just last night, I saw that they are taking over a city in Michigan and the residents of the city, they want them out. They want them out. So, I want to hear your thoughts about that.

She went on to explain further:

we're talking about a militant terrorist situation, which I believe it isn't a widespread thing, but it is enough that we need to address, and we have been addressing it.

Wow! which US cities have been taken over by Muslim terrorists?

My thoughts are these, first of all, Dearborn, Michigan, and Frankford, Texas are on American soil, and under constitutional law. Not Sharia law. And I don't know how that happened in the United States," she said. "It seems to me there is something fundamentally wrong with allowing a foreign system of law to even take hold in any municipality or government situation in our United States.

No one is sure where she pulled Frankford, TX out of, but Dearborn does have a thriving Muslim community (and lots of good restaurants as a result).

This lady is seriously misinformed and delusional. I can't wait for her to be our next Senator from Nevada!

Anyway, she says some other crazy shit in the article, but if I quoted it all, what would the next person have to make fun of?

[Frank]

I keep hearing about Muslims wanting to take over the United States ... on a TV program just last night, I saw that they are taking over a city in Michigan and the residents of the city, they want them out. They want them out. So, I want to hear your thoughts about that.
In fairness (to her), this quote was the questioner, and not Angle.

Also in fairness (to you), her response to the planted question (What? She pulled Dearborn and Frankford (Frankford, Texas? WTF?) our of her ass? I doubt it.) was as un-American as she could get.

[Snowboarder Bo]

My bad. I was just in such a frenzy to get relevant stuff into my post, I screwed that one up. Good catch and thanks for pointing it out.

[Snowboarder Bo]

I missed my own edit window, then hit Cancel and so I'm typing all this for a second time.

Angle is already on record as having said she doesn't want to deal with any "unfriendly" media. As a result, you can rest assured that any public appearance she has made has been carefully controlled theatre.

She's on record as saying she only will talk to media already sympathetic to her views, so that she can "control the message" the media puts out. That means that she's not going to be asked anything that she isn't already (supposedly) prepared to answer.

The fact that her (prepared) answers are so banal, so xenophobic, so limited in their grasp of reality just makes them all the more entertaining to read, in a horrible schadenfreude kind of way.

[Chronos]

I dunno, the fact that she still has a pretty good chance of winning makes her much less enjoyable to watch than someone like O'Donnell.

[thelurkinghorror]

Nevada GOP bigshot Bill Raggio just endorsed Reid. http://www.rgj.com/article/20101007/NEWS/101007041/1321/NEWS/Republican-leader-Raggio-backs-Harry-Reid--reluctantly

He doesn't seem like a fan of Reid, so some of his remarks on Angle's competency are telling.

[Snowboarder Bo]

It turns out that Frankford, Texas doesn't even exist, at least not anymore. It seems that it was annexed into Dallas... back in 1975! 35 years ago!

[Gyrate]

It turns out that Frankford, Texas doesn't even exist, at least not anymore. It seems that it was annexed into Dallas... back in 1975! 35 years ago!Oh sweet Jesus! The Muslims have got time machines and have retroactively wiped Frankford off the map! Is no one safe from these monsters?

[Happy Lendervedder]

The fact that Dearborn has an Irish-Catholic mayor, Polish-Catholic council president, three honkey-protestant judges and at most one Muslim on the city council, it's amazing that Sharia law was able to be successfully implemented.

And now I must go look up to see what Sharia law is, as apparently my town is now under the control of it.

[Boyo Jim]

The first law of Sharia Law is... you guessed it...that you don't talk about Sharia Law.

[Boyo Jim]

"Top" Nevada GOP lawmaker endorses Harry Reid (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/07/AR2010100706014.html?wpisrc=nl_pmpolitics)

Veteran state Sen. Bill Raggio, one of Nevada's most influential Republicans over the last four decades, says he's reluctantly endorsing Democratic U.S. Sen. Harry Reid's re-election campaign. ...

...branding her as a "totally ineffective" four-term state lawmaker.

...cited what he called Angle's inability and unwillingness to work with others even within her own party, and her extreme positions on Social Security and other issues.

Raggio also criticized Angle for badmouthing GOP leaders in a recent secretly taped conversation.

[BrainGlutton]

The fact that Dearborn has an Irish-Catholic mayor, Polish-Catholic council president, three honkey-protestant judges and at most one Muslim on the city council, it's amazing that Sharia law was able to be successfully implemented.

And now I must go look up to see what Sharia law is, as apparently my town is now under the control of it.

Don't bother. It means that, starting tomorrow, you have to go to work wearing nothing but a jockstrap and sunglasses. Oh, and I'm in charge of collecting your, um, tithes.

[gonzomax]

I live in Dearborn and I apparently have missed it. I wonder is a guy on a camel will pull me over for running a stop sign?

[Snowboarder Bo]

Today in the news, Sharron Angle held a closed meeting, intended as a "free speech event" to clear up misconceptions on her positions, at a bar, despite the fact that she disapproves of alcohol and would make it illegal (http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/oct/10/rally-angle-not-afraid-espouse-hypocrisy/).

At the meeting, she apparently reversed herself on several things, including the VA, Social Security, and unemployment benefits.

There was no discussion of her attempts to shower the Tea Party candidate, Scott Ashjian, with "juice", although she did use the term "favor buying whores" to describe politicians.

I thought this was the best part, tho:

She said that if elected, she plans to sponsor a bill on term limits for every elected official from dogcatcher to Supreme Court justice.

Angle did not say how long those term limits would be or set a time frame for her own political career.

[Ravenman]

Geezus. Just when I thought it couldn't get much weirder.

[Merijeek]

There was no discussion of her attempts to shower the Tea Party candidate, Scott Ashjian, with "juice", although she did use the term "favor buying whores" to describe politicians.

Soo....the apology to Meg Whitman is in the mail? Or is it another outrage that only Democrats can cause?

-Joe

[Digital Stimulus]

She said that if elected, she plans to sponsor a bill on term limits for every elected official from dogcatcher to Supreme Court justice.

Angle did not say how long those term limits would be or set a time frame for her own political career.
This is standard Republican hypocrisy, of a piece with the 1994 Republican revolution (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-04-12-term-limits_x.htm). (It's one reason I have some respect for Joe Scarborough, who honored his own term-limit pledge.)

Something from the above article that I didn't know:
The Supreme Court ruled in 1995 that it was unconstitutional for states to limit the terms of their members of Congress. That decision invalidated laws in more than 20 states.
So, as far as Congress-critters are concerned, it doesn't actually matter whether she sponsors said bill or not. But, hey -- why let facts get in the way?

[Merijeek]

So, as far as Congress-critters are concerned, it doesn't actually matter whether she sponsors said bill or not. But, hey -- why let facts get in the way?

Well, it does say "states". So, presumably if enough federal congresscritters got together and make some federal legislation it'd fly.

And I'm sure that'll totally happen. Just more bullshit to spout so that they can get to the all-you-can-lobby buffet.

-Joe

[Digital Stimulus]

Well, it does say "states". So, presumably if enough federal congresscritters got together and make some federal legislation it'd fly.
Ahh, good catch, on 2nd reading that appears to be right. I feel a slight desire to go look up the court case, but....oooo, shiny!

[Simplicio]

So, as far as Congress-critters are concerned, it doesn't actually matter whether she sponsors said bill or not. But, hey -- why let facts get in the way?

Well, it does say "states". So, presumably if enough federal congresscritters got together and make some federal legislation it'd fly.

The '95 ruling was just on States, but the Constitution gives the limitations on who can run for Congres, so I doubt anything short of a Constitutional amendment would allow an extra criteria for qualification to be added.

[DigitalC]

Is she still ahead after that Sharia Law flap?

[gonzomax]

Is she still ahead after that Sharia Law flap?

The tea baggers she is appealing to find that a compelling argument. Perhaps people in Nevada accept it as true. It may have helped her gain.
She has reversed all her positions ,now claiming SS, unemployment, and minimum wage are OK. The tea baggers know the code. She says those things to get elected but does not believe in them. When she gets in office, she will show her Beckian side and fight them all.

[DigitalC]

Is she still ahead after that Sharia Law flap?

The tea baggers she is appealing to find that a compelling argument. Perhaps people in Nevada accept it as true. It may have helped her gain.
She has reversed all her positions ,now claiming SS, unemployment, and minimum wage are OK. The tea baggers know the code. She says those things to get elected but does not believe in them. When she gets in office, she will show her Beckian side and fight them all.

The kind of people who find that a compelling argument were already behind her though.

[Merijeek]

The tea baggers she is appealing to find that a compelling argument. Perhaps people in Nevada accept it as true. It may have helped her gain.
She has reversed all her positions ,now claiming SS, unemployment, and minimum wage are OK. The tea baggers know the code. She says those things to get elected but does not believe in them. When she gets in office, she will show her Beckian side and fight them all.

The kind of people who find that a compelling argument were already behind her though.

Right, but the dipshits for whom politics starts in late October will just have crazy Sharron saying that she totally isn't against repealing all the stuff her dear old Daddy benefited from...even they didn't give him quite enough money.

-Joe

[Snowboarder Bo]

Article here (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEVADA_SENATE_FUNDRAISING?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-10-12-21-21-23).

Apparently the money is going to her head, too.

I am the Tea Party.

So, (as I noted in a Pit thread), it looks like she is claiming leadership of the Tea Party; they now have a face and voice to front for them.

No more claiming that the Tea Party has no leaders, folks. She is it.

[Snowboarder Bo]

It's looking more and more like Sharron Angle's supporters are just itching for a fight!

Lt. Ken Young said a man in costume supporting Reid's opponent, Republican Sharron Angle, allegedly dispensed pepper spray into a group of people outside the high school. (http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/oct/13/police-sharron-angle-supporter-cited-pepper-spray-/)

She and hers are the epitome of class, I tell ya!

[Cisco]

It's looking more and more like Sharron Angle's supporters are just itching for a fight!

Lt. Ken Young said a man in costume supporting Reid's opponent, Republican Sharron Angle, allegedly dispensed pepper spray into a group of people outside the high school. (http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/oct/13/police-sharron-angle-supporter-cited-pepper-spray-/)

She and hers are the epitome of class, I tell ya!

Two people were cited for disorderly conduct
I often think our justice system comes down too hard on people, but spraying pepper spray into a crowd of your political opponents seems a lot more serious than disorderly conduct to me.

[Snowboarder Bo]

Their debate is tomorrow night (Thursday 14 October 2010). I wonder what her supporters will be up to there?

My guess: if there's anything untoward that happens, the Angle supporters will try and claim that it was really a Reid supporter posing as an Angle supporter that started it, in order to try and make them look bad.

[gonzomax]

I can not believe polls have this race a tie. How can anyone vote for a woman who has the gift of gaff ? How many stupid things does she have to say before even tea baggers will dismount and run away in panic? She couldn't find mainstream with an indian scout and radar.

[thelurkinghorror]

Because Reid is disliked himself, and people probably don't pay attention to polls or debates.

[Boyo Jim]

Just moments ago Rachel Maddow said she would show highlights of tonights debate right after the commercial break.

[Snowboarder Bo]

Debate just ended. If the goal of both was to avoid making gaffes, they both accomplished their goal.

I thought there wasn't a lot of substance to the debate. Both of them dodged a couple of questions, but I thought Angle dodged more than Reid.

I thought Angle said some staggeringly stupid things, too, such as when she said that neither Elena Kagan or Sonja Sotormeyer knew the constitution.

I'd call the debate a tie, tho.

ETA: I did note that Angle, who claimed to be a teacher and not a career politician, later came up with a huge number of committees, boards and political positions she held while still a teacher or having to do with teaching. She's certainly been a politician all her life, despite her claim to the contrary.

Also, despite saying it wouldn't be her job as a senator to create jobs, she talked a lot about things she would do that would create jobs and stop people from losing their jobs. And she ragged on Reid for things she says has cost Nevadans jobs. She talks outta both sides of her mouth; that's why she's always smiling.

[Cisco]

she talked a lot about things she would do that would create jobs and stop people from losing their jobs.
Such as?

[theR]

she talked a lot about things she would do that would create jobs and stop people from losing their jobs.
Such as?

Things.

[Ludovic]

Two people were cited for disorderly conduct
I often think our justice system comes down too hard on people, but spraying pepper spray into a crowd of your political opponents seems a lot more serious than disorderly conduct to me.Do you know who ELSE ran a self-proclaimed right-wing revolutionary movement that engaged in violence only to be treated with kid gloves by the judges?

[DiosaBellissima]

I often think our justice system comes down too hard on people, but spraying pepper spray into a crowd of your political opponents seems a lot more serious than disorderly conduct to me.Do you know who ELSE ran a self-proclaimed right-wing revolutionary movement that engaged in violence only to be treated with kid gloves by the judges?

Obama? The answer is Obama, right? What do I win?

[Kevbo]

She went on and on about how devastating "Obamacare" will be to Medicare, then went on and on about how the government needs to stay out of healthcare. This cognitive disconnect seems to have become so common that even Harry Reid didn't seem to notice.

[Ludovic]

Do you know who ELSE ran a self-proclaimed right-wing revolutionary movement that engaged in violence only to be treated with kid gloves by the judges?

Obama? The answer is Obama, right? What do I win?Correct! I award you one Barney Frank award for Interplanetary Exploration ;)

[Boyo Jim]

I watch Lawrence O'Donnell's show last night, and the buzz about the debate was very disappointing. According to the pundit there, Reid seemed really detached, spoke in "WashingtonSpeak" - which is apparently one of the things he is most hated for, and never really went after Angle for all her crazy. They showed some clips where he repeatedly called her views "extreme", but IMO he didn't make it real clear why and how they are extreme.

I fear he's circling the drain. He is an absolutely terrible majority leader anyway, so at least there's a silver lining if he goes down. I can only hope that the next senior Dem doesn't turn into the minority leader.

[gonzomax]

Reid is an extremely powerful senator. Angle would be a beginner who would just run around insulting the other senators. You don't vote away your power because he lacks charisma. You don't open the door for a complete nut to walk in.

[BrainGlutton]

What are the people of Nevada like, really, that this woman is even a serious candidate?

[Boyo Jim]

Possibly all that nuclear fallout...?

[SenorBeef]

What are the people of Nevada like, really, that this woman is even a serious candidate?

Eh, you could nominate a dead monkey and enough people would vote party line to make it a competitive race. The actual candidates are almost irrelevant - people are so entrenched into their tribal partisan party battles that they'll vote party line no matter what. There's probably no one the Republicans could nominate that would get any less than 40% of the vote.

[gonzomax]

Angle is a silver lining option? She is an embarrassing idiot who is nuts. You may not love Reid but he is an intelligent and mature option. Angle can only bring shame.
Wait, I have to go answer to the Sharia Law that exists in my neighborhood. The camel patrol is checking to see what I watch on TV. Stoning is in my future.

[Boyo Jim]

Angle is a silver lining option? ...

No. Reid no longer being the majority leader is the silver lining.

[Kolak of Twilo]

I'd rather suffer through Reid continuing to do a terrible job as majority leader than have Durbin do a great job as minority leader though.

[DigitalC]

What are the people of Nevada like, really, that this woman is even a serious candidate?

Eh, you could nominate a dead monkey and enough people would vote party line to make it a competitive race. The actual candidates are almost irrelevant - people are so entrenched into their tribal partisan party battles that they'll vote party line no matter what. There's probably no one the Republicans could nominate that would get any less than 40% of the vote.

I bet Alvin Greene doesn't get 40% of the vote.

[BrainGlutton]

What are the people of Nevada like, really, that this woman is even a serious candidate?

Eh, you could nominate a dead monkey and enough people would vote party line to make it a competitive race. The actual candidates are almost irrelevant - people are so entrenched into their tribal partisan party battles that they'll vote party line no matter what. There's probably no one the Republicans could nominate that would get any less than 40% of the vote.

Nevertheless, we are talking about Sharron Angle, who has said these things (http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/republicanquotes/a/Sharron-Angle-Quotes.htm) on the public record. In a sane state, Reid would beat her in November after showing up for the debate falling-down drunk with blood on his shirt and semen on his lips.

[Frank]

I'd rather suffer through Reid continuing to do a terrible job as majority leader than have Durbin do a great job as minority leader though.
In the best of all possible worlds, Schumer or Durbin will be the majority leader. I think either one of them would do better with 52 seats than Reid with 59. For Democrats to gain our goals requires a Senate leader who can twist arms, take names, and kick ass, and that is not Reid.

(In the best of the best of all possible worlds, Reid will win too, but will lose in the leadership vote.)

[Frank]

I bet Alvin Greene doesn't get 40% of the vote.
The last poll I saw showed him at 11%.

[SenorBeef]

Nevertheless, we are talking about Sharron Angle, who has said these things (http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/republicanquotes/a/Sharron-Angle-Quotes.htm) on the public record. In a sane state, Reid would beat her in November after showing up for the debate falling-down drunk with blood on his shirt and semen on his lips.

How often does a state vary more than, say, 7% along democrat/republican lines compared to its average? You say "sane state" but I suspect the only states in which Reid's seat would be secure would be states where it isn't ever close anyway.

I'm not trying to defend Angle of course, I'm just saying people are retardedly partisan and it barely matters who the actual candidate is.

[gonzomax]

Nevertheless, we are talking about Sharron Angle, who has said these things (http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/republicanquotes/a/Sharron-Angle-Quotes.htm) on the public record. In a sane state, Reid would beat her in November after showing up for the debate falling-down drunk with blood on his shirt and semen on his lips.

How often does a state vary more than, say, 7% along democrat/republican lines compared to its average? You say "sane state" but I suspect the only states in which Reid's seat would be secure would be states where it isn't ever close anyway.

I'm not trying to defend Angle of course, I'm just saying people are retardedly partisan and it barely matters who the actual candidate is.

I wish I could argue with that. She is a nutcase and will get more than 40 percent of the vote. How is that possible? Nevadans have to be smarter than that. Don't they have a sense of embarrassment?

[SenorBeef]

I don't think Nevadans are unique in regard to their partisanship.

[Snowboarder Bo]

How often does a state vary more than, say, 7% along democrat/republican lines compared to its average? You say "sane state" but I suspect the only states in which Reid's seat would be secure would be states where it isn't ever close anyway.

I'm not trying to defend Angle of course, I'm just saying people are retardedly partisan and it barely matters who the actual candidate is.

I wish I could argue with that. She is a nutcase and will get more than 40 percent of the vote. How is that possible? Nevadans have to be smarter than that. Don't they have a sense of embarrassment?

Have you ever been to Nevada? There's no sense of shame here.

I mean, we're a state that's pretty much built on the fact that we legally fleece visitors of their money. We shamelessly offer free $2 cocktails in return for people gambling away hundreds or even thousands of dollars. We charge people $100 a ticket to watch gymnasts in costumes do somersaults to music. We offer the slogan "What happens here stays here", but just see if the casino's debt collectors can't find you no matter where you call home.

Our entire state economy and reason for being is based on the pretty lies we sell to the rest of the country world, and you ask if there's any shame or embarrassment in Nevada? :dubious:


ETA: 40%? I think you should prolly revise that figure upwards. I'm getting a feeling that you're talking about the next senator from Nevada, ya know.

[Least Original User Name Ever]

The fact that Dearborn has an Irish-Catholic mayor, Polish-Catholic council president, three honkey-protestant judges and at most one Muslim on the city council, it's amazing that Sharia law was able to be successfully implemented.

And now I must go look up to see what Sharia law is, as apparently my town is now under the control of it.

Yeah, I'm waiting for the inevitable Daily Show segment.

[Mosier]

Why is there a consensus that Reid is not doing a good job? What exactly is it that Democrats wish he would have done differently?

[gonzomax]

Reid is a very dull speaker. He does not inspire with his speeches. He kind of puts you to sleep.
The fact that he got the leadership slot indicates he can play the political game well though. I would find it hard to vote off a powerful senator and replace him with a dingbat .

[jayjay]

Why is there a consensus that Reid is not doing a good job? What exactly is it that Democrats wish he would have done differently?

We kind of wish he'd actually acted as if he had a filibuster-breaking majority in the Senate, because HE DID for a while, at least. Threaten Bayh's and Nelson's and Lincoln's and Landrieu's DSCC money unless they vote party line. Twist some arms. Threaten some people's committee positions. If you really believe in your legislative agenda, fight for it!

[Merijeek]

Why is there a consensus that Reid is not doing a good job? What exactly is it that Democrats wish he would have done differently?

We kind of wish he'd actually acted as if he had a filibuster-breaking majority in the Senate, because HE DID for a while, at least. Threaten Bayh's and Nelson's and Lincoln's and Landrieu's DSCC money unless they vote party line. Twist some arms. Threaten some people's committee positions. If you really believe in your legislative agenda, fight for it!

You mean, as "Majority Leader" he should have tried to Lead the Majority?

-Joe

[gonzomax]

Reid, Obama and the Dems thought they could govern more from the center. They knew a lot of Repubs agreed with lots of their proposals. They did not think the Repubs would have a blanket filibuster that would hold together this long.
I am not sure they realize what they have to do. Reid did not publicly attack the Repubs like he should have. Obama did not use the pulpit to attack them. Dems are too gentlemanly. the Repubs play to win. They want the power and will wield it like a dictatorship.

[jayjay]

We kind of wish he'd actually acted as if he had a filibuster-breaking majority in the Senate, because HE DID for a while, at least. Threaten Bayh's and Nelson's and Lincoln's and Landrieu's DSCC money unless they vote party line. Twist some arms. Threaten some people's committee positions. If you really believe in your legislative agenda, fight for it!

You mean, as "Majority Leader" he should have tried to Lead the Majority?

-Joe

I know it sounds like crazy-talk, but still...

[Chronos]

We kind of wish he'd actually acted as if he had a filibuster-breaking majority in the Senate, because HE DID for a while, at least. Threaten Bayh's and Nelson's and Lincoln's and Landrieu's DSCC money unless they vote party line. Twist some arms. Threaten some people's committee positions. If you really believe in your legislative agenda, fight for it! And, what, threaten to kick Lieberman out of the party? He never had a filibuster-breaking majority; at most it was 59-1-40.

[jayjay]

And, what, threaten to kick Lieberman out of the party? He never had a filibuster-breaking majority; at most it was 59-1-40.

If Lieberman were the only problem child, you'd be right. He's not.

[Chronos]

Well that just makes Reid's job even harder, then, doesn't it? If he couldn't get Lieberman to play ball, then Bayh and Nelson and Baucus and the rest acting up too wouldn't exactly make anything any easier.

[Measure for Measure]

Reid had 60 votes for about 6 months. In the beginning he had 59, since Al Franken wasn't seated until July 2009. In Jan 2010 the Dems lost the Massachusetts seat. He got a lot done in the face of vicious Republican obstructionism. Steve Benin lists the legislative accomplishments: We are, after all, talking about a two-year span in which Congress passed and the president signed the Affordable Care Act, the Recovery Act, Wall Street reform, student loan reform, Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, new regulation of the credit card industry, new regulation of the tobacco industry, a national service bill, expanded stem-cell research, the Hate Crimes Prevention Act, the most sweeping land-protection act in 15 years, etc. Policymakers might yet add to this list in the lame-duck session.

Some of these efforts have been years in the making. In the case of health care reform, politicians have been talking about a major overhaul for a full century, but it took this Congress and this president to get it done. Speaking objectively, Reid is one of the greatest Senate leaders in US history. Then again, if he wins I expect that he will screw the pooch and fail to reform the filibuster in Jan 2011. Congressional Dems just can't bring themselves to believe that Lucy will take back the football this time.

[gonzomax]

I have mixed feelings about the filibuster. It was not meant to be used like the Repubs are using it, but I think it has a place. They could change the rules back so if you want to filibuster, you have to care enough to stand up and hold the floor. A procedural filibuster just keeps the majority from exercising its proper rights and passing legislation.

[DigitalC]

I have mixed feelings about the filibuster. It was not meant to be used like the Repubs are using it, but I think it has a place.


Right, my mixed feelings have a lot to do with the fact that eventually the Republicans will be back in power.

[SenorBeef]

Do the democrats have a history of using the procedural filibuster power?

[gonzomax]

The Dems had the nerve to procedurally filibuster 10 of the 214 Federal Judges the Repubs nominated. It pissed the Repubs off so badly that they suggested removing judges from filibusters or wielding the dreaded Nuclear option.
Too many Dems felt that if a guy , even Bush with his disputed elections, got elected ,he has a right to put in his kind of judges and staff. For them, you have to provide a wildly insane person to the position. Even worse than Roberts, and Thomas.

[Ravenman]

In other news, Mrs. Angle says that Hispanic children actually look like Asians, which is cool, because she is the first Asian legislator elected to office in Nevada.

What. The. Hell.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2010/10/angle-tells-hispanic-students.html

[Boyo Jim]

And according to the story, her claim was that the ad about porous borders was about the Canadian border, even though it had a map of Mexico. And she doesn't "know" that the people in the ad are Mexicans, possibly because a lot of Canadians look Mexican. Or possibly Asian.

[Merijeek]

And according to the story, her claim was that the ad about porous borders was about the Canadian border, even though it had a map of Mexico. And she doesn't "know" that the people in the ad are Mexicans, possibly because a lot of Canadians look Mexican. Or possibly Asian.

She's convinced everyone else is as stupid as she is. The question is...is she right?

-Joe

[Cisco]

In other news, Mrs. Angle says that Hispanic children actually look like Asians, which is cool, because she is the first Asian legislator elected to office in Nevada.

What. The. Hell.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2010/10/angle-tells-hispanic-students.html

Angle: "What we know is that our northern border is where the terrorists came through."

I've been under the impression for awhile now that this isn't true. Am I wrong?

[Merijeek]

Angle: "What we know is that our northern border is where the terrorists came through."


"Came through"? Like, past tense? Then tell us which ones!

Pretty sure most of the most infamous came through, you know, through the "airport" border.

-Joe

[Boyo Jim]

There were a couple of people who came through a Canadian border crossing over the yeara, IIRC, and none that I'm aware of through the Mexican border. So "most" is maybe 2 or 3?

I think there was a guy who was gonna bomb a bridge or something in California that came in from Canada. I think Angle is technically correct about this.

[Euphonious Polemic]

There were a couple of people who came through a Canadian border crossing over the yeara, IIRC, and none that I'm aware of through the Mexican border. So "most" is maybe 2 or 3?

I think there was a guy who was gonna bomb a bridge or something in California that came in from Canada. I think Angle is technically correct about this.

You may be thinking ofAhmed Ressam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Ressam) who was plotting to bomb LAX and was caught by a US customs inspector in Port Angeles WA in 1999.

He's the only terrorist that I'm aware of who tried to enter the US through Canada for the past 15+ years.

The whole "911 Terrorists came through Canada" bullshit meme is still alive and well, having been repeated by Hilary Clinton and John McCain.

[BrainGlutton]

Angle: "What we know is that our northern border is where the terrorists came through."

I've been under the impression for awhile now that this isn't true. Am I wrong?

It's true. Even Michael Moore says so. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Bacon)

[Merijeek]

It's true. Even Michael Moore says so. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Bacon)

So, when are they going to "start the danged fence?"

-Joe

[DigitalC]

Every time she opens her mouth Reids chances improve, to see her commit gaffe after gaffe this close to the election warms the cockles of my heart.

[Boyo Jim]

A the heart of my cockle.

[Snowboarder Bo]

UPDATE: The Angle campaign says she made that remark about being the first Asian legislator because "a reporter thought she looked Asian." OK. (http://www.lasvegassun.com/blogs/ralstons-flash/2010/oct/18/angle-hispanic-children-some-you-look-little-more-/)
I only wish Mr. Ralston had thought to follow up with "Really? Which reporter was that?"

She'll be the biggest disaster of a senator the state of Nevada has ever had, but at least she'll keep giving us stuff to point and laugh at. :rolleyes:

[Merijeek]

I only wish Mr. Ralston had thought to follow up with "Really? Which reporter was that?"

She'll be the biggest disaster of a senator the state of Nevada has ever had, but at least she'll keep giving us stuff to point and laugh at. :rolleyes:

I look more Asian than that bleachbag nutcase. And the only way I could get any whiter is if I lived in the sewers, only coming out at night to harvest hobos for organs.

-Joe

[Gyrate]

I look more Asian than that bleachbag nutcase. And the only way I could get any whiter is if I lived in the sewers, only coming out at night to harvest hobos for organs. Call it "an effective free-market solution to the homeless problem" and you've got yourself a candidacy.

[Snowboarder Bo]

Story here (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEVADA_SENATE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-10-19-21-29-38).

A Republican campaign urging Latinos not to vote was yanked from the airwaves Tuesday amid an outcry from Democrats that it was a dirty trick against Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid in his hotly contested race against Republican Sharron Angle.

"Don't vote this November. This is the only way to send them a clear message," the ad's narrator announces in Spanish. "You can no longer take us for granted."

And hey, look, I found the English version on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKFAiMbm1Fc

[BrainGlutton]

Story here (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEVADA_SENATE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-10-19-21-29-38).





And hey, look, I found the English version on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKFAiMbm1Fc

And this group that ran it, "Latinos for Reform," is headed by a GOP operative. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/19/latinos-for-reform-vote-nevada_n_767991.html) See also SourceWatch. (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Latinos_for_Reform)

Latinos for Reform is conservative political action committee that shares the same Alexandria, Virginia post office box as several other registered PACs, including the Virginia Liberty Fund, Storm Chasers, and the American Spirit Fund. The treasurer of all three groups is Republican political operative Susan Arceneaux, and the assistant treasurer of all three groups is Christopher J. Ward. Arceneaux is a resident of Fairfax, Virginia, is a well-connected member of the Republican Party, as well as a "long time aide of Dick Armey, a former Congressman from Texas and a close friend of Bush Jr. Arceneaux also is tied in with a number of other Republican groups close to Bush Jr. NY Times 8/24/04). [1][1] In filings for all three groups, Arceneaux gives her residential address as "10597 John Ayres Drive," which, along with the Latinos for Reform's P.O. Box number (P.O. Box 26366, Alexandria, Virginia, 22313), is also the address of the Admiral Roy F. Hoffman Foundation, and the address of Political Compliance Services, a consulting firm operated by Susan Arceneaux, and the same consulting firm used by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.[2]

[DiosaBellissima]

And hey, look, I found the English version on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKFAiMbm1Fc

How are the Republicans able to get around to campaign with balls that big? I love it. :D

[gonzomax]

She's convinced everyone else is as stupid as she is. The question is...is she right?

-Joe

Apparently in Nevada they are. She is running neck and neck with Reid even though she is a complete nutball. She says something new and stupid every day, yet Nevadans are likely to vote her in over an extremely powerful , experienced senator.

[gonzomax]

And this group that ran it, "Latinos for Reform," is headed by a GOP operative. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/19/latinos-for-reform-vote-nevada_n_767991.html) See also SourceWatch. (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Latinos_for_Reform)

Well what did you think the Roberts Supreme Court was trying to do? They have succeeded in making the downtrodden under represented rich, finally get a fair shake . And they can do it without public knowledge.

[Cisco]

Story here (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEVADA_SENATE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-10-19-21-29-38).





And hey, look, I found the English version on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKFAiMbm1Fc

And this group that ran it, "Latinos for Reform," is headed by a GOP operative. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/19/latinos-for-reform-vote-nevada_n_767991.html) See also SourceWatch. (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Latinos_for_Reform)
Holy shit. That . . . that . . .

[waterj2]

Well what did you think the Roberts Supreme Court was trying to do? They have succeeded in making the downtrodden under represented rich, finally get a fair shake . And they can do it without public knowledge.The Roberts Court was simply being fair. The rich and poor alike can spend millions on political advertisements anonymously. The law, in its majesty, treats them equally.

[Measure for Measure]

Under Jim Crow, conservative bigots did everything they could to prevent African Americans from voting. Launching an ad campaign explicitly telling people not to vote is part of this conservative tradition. I'll remember that the next time that crowd jabbers about founding fathers.

Incidentally, the ad objects to the Dems failure to pass immigration reform: what sort of reform is left unsaid, but their end of message moniker "Latinos for Reform" may strike some as misleading.

[calgreg]

Reid will win. Because he is a fairly sensible man. i.e. not a woman.

[gonzomax]

The Roberts Court was simply being fair. The rich and poor alike can spend millions on political advertisements anonymously. The law, in its majesty, treats them equally.

Not even close. If anyone believes the rich are under represented and not strong enough, they are gulping sophistry like mothers milk.

[Ludovic]

Not even close. If anyone believes the rich are under represented and not strong enough, they are gulping sophistry like mothers milk.But the rich as well as the poor are also not allowed to panhandle and sleep under bridges, that's how fair the majersty of the law is!

[Measure for Measure]

Although Reid was an extraordinarily accomplished Senate leader as noted earlier, he probably will not win. Nate Silver at 538 (http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/) gives him a 33% chance of victory.

I predict that most Nevadan Republicans will vote for Angle, largely because they are highly tolerant of the crazy and running away from tough questions just doesn't bother them. I would lay 5:1 odds on that outcome.

[elfkin477]

Wow, Nevada voters must be a bunch of ingrates for not backing Reid more strongly, considering we'd be in a worldwide depression if not for Reid. Well, according to him (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hZ98SnEwt9Oa1fgVu5CVi1XWgb0g?docId=dec44e78238046dd8ab600df54dc1d6f), anyway. Has he been campaigning to tell voters how he saved the whole world? You think he could get a lot of mileage out of that.

[Snowboarder Bo]

Although Reid was an extraordinarily accomplished Senate leader as noted earlier, he probably will not win. Nate Silver at 538 (http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/) gives him a 33% chance of victory.

I predict that most Nevadan Republicans will vote for Angle, largely because they are highly tolerant of the crazy and running away from tough questions just doesn't bother them. I would lay 5:1 odds on that outcome.

I think you must have mis-read whatever you were looking at at 538 blog, because the Reid-Angle race isn't anywhere on that page you linked to. I did click thru eventually to this map (http://elections.nytimes.com/2010/forecasts/senate), which clearly shows his current prediction of Reid 48% to Angle 50%.

[Snowboarder Bo]

Wow, Nevada voters must be a bunch of ingrates for not backing Reid more strongly, considering we'd be in a worldwide depression if not for Reid. Well, according to him (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hZ98SnEwt9Oa1fgVu5CVi1XWgb0g?docId=dec44e78238046dd8ab600df54dc1d6f), anyway. Has he been campaigning to tell voters how he saved the whole world? You think he could get a lot of mileage out of that.

Since in this thread most of us have gone to pains to print Angle's attempts at explaining what she meant whenever she said something stupid, I'll note that you left out that part in your post, even tho the article you linked to is so short, this is like 14% of the content:
It's clear that Sen. Reid was making the point that he gets how people are struggling and that long explanations about policy aren't what they are looking for, but that we have passed policies that have prevented a bad situation from becoming worse.Hmmm, maybe it isn't fair to also quote that, since, ya know, it at least makes sense. It's not like any of Angle's explanations for her gaffes ever do.

[Snowboarder Bo]

I think you must have mis-read whatever you were looking at at 538 blog, because the Reid-Angle race isn't anywhere on that page you linked to. I did click thru eventually to this map (http://elections.nytimes.com/2010/forecasts/senate), which clearly shows his current prediction of Reid 48% to Angle 50%.

I missed my edit window, and then forgot about this as other, shinier things presented themselves, but I eventually managed to see what you did: that he's giving Angle a 66.5% chance of winning. In Nevada, tho, those are good odds. :D

[Paul in Qatar]

If Harry Reid loses his senior position in the Senate, maybe we can finally open Yucca Mountain.

[Snowboarder Bo]

If Harry Reid loses his senior position in the Senate, maybe we can finally open Yucca Mountain.

Doubtful. The project is dead. It was a stupid plan, anyway.

[gonzomax]

Anybody who votes for Angle instead of Reid is retarded. They would vote for a really dumb woman, with no connections , no understanding of how to operate in the Senate over a guy who is the Dem. leader, well positioned and powerful. How dumb do you have to be to think that makes sense?

[Snowboarder Bo]

Anybody who votes for Angle instead of Reid is retarded. They would vote for a really dumb woman, with no connections , no understanding of how to operate in the Senate over a guy who is the Dem. leader, well positioned and powerful. How dumb do you have to be to think that makes sense?

Penn summed it up nicely: "You know what your problem is? You people suffer from bad math. You see a sign that says 98% return on slots, and you think that means you're winning."

Most of the population here seems to exhibit that same kind of thought process most of the time. Don't think so? I present for your consideration: Gov. Jim Gibbons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Gibbons_(U.S._politician)). I didn't think it was hardly possible for there to be a worse gov than Florida's Bob Martinez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Martinez), but here we are, right where we went.

[SenorBeef]

Anybody who votes for Angle instead of Reid is retarded. They would vote for a really dumb woman, with no connections , no understanding of how to operate in the Senate over a guy who is the Dem. leader, well positioned and powerful. How dumb do you have to be to think that makes sense?

Maybe not everyone thinks the goal of our representative system should be doing as much as possible to give as little to the rest of the country while taking the most from it. Obviously I'm not supporting Angle, but "support Reid! He can get more shit to your state than you give back!" is a battle cry for dicks.

[Measure for Measure]

Wow, Nevada voters must be a bunch of ingrates for not backing Reid more strongly, considering we'd be in a worldwide depression if not for Reid. Well, according to him (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hZ98SnEwt9Oa1fgVu5CVi1XWgb0g?docId=dec44e78238046dd8ab600df54dc1d6f), anyway. Has he been campaigning to tell voters how he saved the whole world? You think he could get a lot of mileage out of that. Out of context quote.

"It doesn't give people a lot of solace, for me to tell them uh, "But for me, we would be in a worldwide depression." He's saying that to say something like that doesn't help the optics. In other words, the meaning is the diametrical opposite of what conservatives are implying. For shame. http://hotair.com/archives/2010/10/21/good-news-from-harry-reid-harry-reid-saved-us-from-a-worldwide-depression/

What about the substance? Well, actually TARP and the stimulus package did prevent a worldwide depression. We've seen this movie before: it ran from 1930-33. How else can aggregate demand pop back if monetary authorities find themselves in a liquidity trap?


Snowboarder Bo: Ya, the odds are different than the point spread. I think it's a pretty neat site: it presents some fairly intricate stats in a relatively clear manner.

[Snowboarder Bo]

Maybe not everyone thinks the goal of our representative system should be doing as much as possible to give as little to the rest of the country while taking the most from it. Obviously I'm not supporting Angle, but "support Reid! He can get more shit to your state than you give back!" is a battle cry for dicks.

Wow. How long did it take you to massage that out of gonzo's post?

The truth is, having a junior senator will hurt the state, simply because she will have no clout (and no cooperation) from others in the senate. She will be unable to do much more than cheer on OTHER senator's bills or help to further obstruct Democrats. It's not so much a matter of her being unable to rake in more bucks for the state than we send out, as it is her being unable to get ANYTHING done. Anything important to Nevada, on the federal level, will simply not happen. You know: just like it was before Reid became the majority leader.

[SenorBeef]

That's the implication, though, isn't it? Having a powerful senator gets you pork in your district and favorable treatment compared to other regions. Which is great, if you only give a shit about yourself and your area - that's how our system works, the guy who brings the most shit into his district wins elections, so it's a race to see who can rob from the national treasury most effectively and give back the least.

Yucca mountain is a good example - instead of having a centralized, safe, away from everyone, responsible repository of nuclear waste, we instead have that very same waste stored all over the fucking place all over the country in areas which are not as safe or secure. Having a powerful senator caters to that sort of NIMBYism, it hurts the rest of the country for a very small perceived (not even real) benefit.

Gonzo is implying hey, elect the powerful dude, you'll rob the national treasury way more effectively than with the newcomer! And I'm saying not everyone is selfish like that.

[Snowboarder Bo]

That's the implication, though, isn't it? Having a powerful senator gets you pork in your district and favorable treatment compared to other regions. Which is great, if you only give a shit about yourself and your area - that's how our system works, the guy who brings the most shit into his district wins elections, so it's a race to see who can rob from the national treasury most effectively and give back the least.

Yucca mountain is a good example - instead of having a centralized, safe, away from everyone, responsible repository of nuclear waste, we instead have that very same waste stored all over the fucking place all over the country in areas which are not as safe or secure. Having a powerful senator caters to that sort of NIMBYism, it hurts the rest of the country for a very small perceived (not even real) benefit.

Gonzo is implying hey, elect the powerful dude, you'll rob the national treasury way more effectively than with the newcomer! And I'm saying not everyone is selfish like that.
Sorry, Senor but as I read gonzo's post above, he neither said nor implied any such thing. Maybe he'll come in here and tell me that you're right, that I got it wrong, but I doubt it. You certainly have said it outright, twice now in as many posts, but as I said before, you had to have spent quite a bit of time and effort massaging that "implication" out of the words he wrote.

And btw, I (and most of the people who would be affected by Yucca Mountain) don't agree at all with your characterization of either the former, ill-conceived project or of those of us who sought to stop the nation from forcing Nevada to become the toxic waste dump of the USA.

Now, can we drop the Yucca hijack? It's not at all germane to the topic of this thread.

[SenorBeef]

What are the benefits of having a powerful senator even if he disagrees with your ideology if not special treatment for your region? I say disagrees with your ideology because obviously the people who are voting for Angle aren't voting for her for non-ideological/partisan reasons, so they're not sympathetic to the democratic party platform. And yet Gonzo feels that they should vote for Reid anyway, because he's powerful. What else could that mean? That he's going to be powerful at the national level enacting the democratic platform that they oppose? No, he's trying to say that they should vote for him because he can get special treatment for them and that should trump ideology.

[Snowboarder Bo]

What are the benefits of having a powerful senator even if he disagrees with your ideology if not special treatment for your region? I say disagrees with your ideology because obviously the people who are voting for Angle aren't voting for her for non-ideological/partisan reasons, so they're not sympathetic to the democratic party platform. And yet Gonzo feels that they should vote for him anyway, because he's powerful. What else could that mean?

Are you so partisan that is impossible to come up with anything with which you could agree with a Democrat, then? The need for roads and bridges? The need for a sensible immigration policy? The need to not declare war on countries which don't threaten our own? Anything?

"special treatment for your region" & "sympathetic to your idealogy" != "money grubbing thievery from the rest of the country"

Why is your view of politics so narrow that the only thing you can talk about is the money?

Powerful senators get to advance an agenda, not just propose one law. They have some control of the docket of bills and the time spent discussing them on the floor. They have influence on who sits in committees and what the committees consider. They have histories with other senators, alliances to call on, and favors they can ask for and grant. And not all of those things have to do with distributing funds. Did you really not know this?

As for what gonzo meant, well, wait until he answers. I've made no comment on what he meant, only on what you said he meant, which is, as I've said, completely unsupported by the words he wrote.

At any rate, it really has no bearing on the discussion of the election. If you want to debate the proper role of politicians in general, please feel free to take it to GD. This thread is about the upcoming Nevada senate election.

[SenorBeef]

Are you so partisan that is impossible to come up with anything with which you could agree with a Democrat, then? The need for roads and bridges? The need for a sensible immigration policy? The need to not declare war on countries which don't threaten our own? Anything?


What? Why do you think that I'm a republican or that there's no ground I could possibly agree with a democrat on? Please, find me one post I've ever made on this board that supports this notion.



"special treatment for your region" & "sympathetic to your idealogy" != "money grubbing thievery from the rest of the country"


I don't know what point you're trying to make by combining those. My point is that voting for a powerful senator can mean two things - you think he'll have influence in pushing the democratic agenda - something a republican obviously doesn't want - or you think he'll have influence getting special favors done for your state.

Gonzo asserted that anyone who didn't want to vote for Reid for the latter is an idiot. I'm countering that by saying that maybe they're just not selfish.

Why is your view of politics so narrow that the only thing you can talk about is the money?

I didn't only talk about money. I used Yucca Mountain as an example - it's not valuable because it'll bring a few jobs to Nevada, it's valuable because it's a far more reasonable storage solution than storing it all over the fucking country in temporary storage facilities. That sort of selfish, short sighted NIMBYism is exactly the sort of thing that having a powerful senator who wants to give your state special treatment can give you. This is a prime example of non-monetary yet selfish influence.


Powerful senators get to advance an agenda, not just propose one law. They have some control of the docket of bills and the time spent discussing them on the floor. They have influence on who sits in committees and what the committees consider. They have histories with other senators, alliances to call on, and favors they can ask for and grant. And not all of those things have to do with distributing funds. Did you really not know this?


If you're a republican, you're saying that the smart thing would be to vote for Harry Reid so that he could control the docket of bills and have influence on committees and all that in order to advance the democratic agenda?

What are you saying here? They have influence outside of strictly monetary considerations? Well, duh. So what? That influence is either going to go towards advancing the democratic agenda or enriching Nevada. How does that respond to my point at all?


As for what gonzo meant, well, wait until he answers. I've made no comment on what he meant, only on what you said he meant, which is, as I've said, completely unsupported by the words he wrote.


I'm saying that's the only thing he could've reasonably meant, the implication is pretty clear.


At any rate, it really has no bearing on the discussion of the election. If you want to debate the proper role of politicians in general, please feel free to take it to GD. This thread is about the upcoming Nevada senate election.

It's a counter to Gonzo's point, so it has exactly as much relevance to this thread as what he said. He said Nevada voters are stupid to give up an influential senator. I'm countering that there's a reason besides stupidity.

My point is not in support of Sharon Angle. My point is in opposition to his arguments that people are stupid for not voting for a guy who will do a better job of enriching them at the expense of others.

[Measure for Measure]

In all fairness gonzomax's point is a common one: I'd go as far to say that it's even conventional wisdom. My point is in opposition to his arguments that people are stupid for not voting for a guy who will do a better job of enriching them at the expense of others. IMHO, someone should amplify SeniorBeef's point and back it up with research. I'd go further though. It's really silly for most people to get gung-ho about creating extra jobs in their state, never mind their Congressional district, unless of course they are recipients of said jobs created. Don't get me wrong: it's in every American's interest to have a robust stimulus package, since a Great Depression would hurt basically everyone's income, excepting the bankruptcy lawyers. But typical Nevadan residents should prefer smart investments in say east coast or Florida railroads over subsidizing construction of the Nevadan State Sand and Rock Museum, in Bhutthole, NV, unless of course they are sand curators.

Yucca Mountain is another matter: for that, it might make sense to have friends in high places, as it's not clear that either site or waste strategy are all that terrific anyway. (eg, it's not reversible.)

[gonzomax]

Maybe not everyone thinks the goal of our representative system should be doing as much as possible to give as little to the rest of the country while taking the most from it. Obviously I'm not supporting Angle, but "support Reid! He can get more shit to your state than you give back!" is a battle cry for dicks.

I did not say that. That mantra works for Alaska though. There are lots of ways strong representation helps a state. But a bumbling ,not too bright Senator who does not even know how to write a bill can not be of much use. She could not sway experienced politicians. She would not know who to talk to.

[Fear Itself]

She could not sway experienced politicians. She would not know who to talk to.Her corporate handlers will guide her.

[gonzomax]

Her corporate handlers will guide her.

They are working hard to disguise her stupidity now. It has proven to be too large a task. She would have to be drugged and led on a leash .
Yet a lot of people will vote for her. It is amazing.

[gonzomax]

A quick glimpse of reality. Lots of organizations air how much money states get back, compared to how much they pay in. If you are delusional, you can say that is not a measure of a Senator. But outside fantasy land it is a well publicized metric. It is a way of judging the success of your representatives. It has been for a long time. Getting projects for your state is good for employment. It matters.

[SenorBeef]

And if someone doesn't feel like the measure of their representatives is how much they can take from others while giving back the least, they're stupid?

Allocating public resources based on who has the most influence rather than the merits of the project makes us all worse off. Had you merely said "if Reid is elected, Nevada will see more benefits" I probably wouldn't have commented on anything, but you were talking about how stupid and inept the voting public was that they weren't jumping at the chance to try to boost their own backyard at the expensive of everyone else.

[SenorBeef]

I created a thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13063836) to discuss the issue of representatives trying to steer public resources into their districts.

[BrainGlutton]

Doubtful. The project is dead. It was a stupid plan, anyway.

Wait, what?! What could possibly make more sense than turning Nevada into a nuclear-waste dump?!

[BrainGlutton]

Meanwhile, allegations of voter fraud/voter intimidation are flying back and forth. (http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/oct/27/allegations-of-voter-fraud-fly-in-nv-senate-race/)

[Leaper]

Sounds like Nevada might get a few months of lawsuits before seating someone if the race is close enough...

[Snowboarder Bo]

Meanwhile, allegations of voter fraud/voter intimidation are flying back and forth. (http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/oct/27/allegations-of-voter-fraud-fly-in-nv-senate-race/)

I voted early today (I will be unable to reach a polling place on 2 November), and the lady next to me was complaining loudly that she had voted for Sharron Angle and the machine wasn't showing her vote. "I voted for her and now the machine isn't showing the vote!" Duh, lady, it only shows the vote if you go back to that screen or continue to "review your ballot", plus you can print your ballot so there's a paper record, and it's on the printout as well. But since I was voting, I didn't want to say anything, because I know they have people to help out.

A voter aide came and helped walk her thru the "review your ballot" steps, very patiently explaining that you have to hit the "next" arrow to make the screens change, etc. He was extremely polite, and eventually the voter was satisfied. He said he was happy to help, told her she was all done and could leave, gestured towards the exit, and she went the wrong way anyway, trying to push past the aide back towards the entrance. He stood firm, blocking the narrow aisle, and gestured again while thanking her for voting, explained again that the exit was the other way, and she finally got it and left. I heard the lady who collects the voter cards and gives out the nifty "I Voted" stickers call out to her that she had to turn in her card; she tried to leave with it still in her hand, like it was a souvenir.

As far as I'm concerned, that's a typical Angle voter: stupid, confused, and with delusions of persecution.

It doesn't surprise me that the GOP filed a 44 page complaint, since their goal is to grind the wheels of democracy into rectangles, obstructing all movement if they can't get their way. Or even if they think they can't get their way.

[chorpler]

As far as I'm concerned, that's a typical Angle voter: stupid, confused, and with delusions of persecution.

As I was voting early a couple days ago, at the voting station closest to the exit, another voter came up to hand his card to the "I voted!" guy at the ballot box, and as he handed the guy his card, he said loudly, "Did you know Harry Reid is a fucking traitor?"

The poor old man at the ballot box said, "What?"

"I said, did you know Harry Reid is a fucking traitor, and the city manager is a fucking bitch who should be fired?"

"Uh ..." said the old man. "No..."

At this point another worker came up and said "Sir, you need to calm down and leave, NOW."

He left without saying another word. It was the only time I've ever seen anything even remotely out of the ordinary happen at a voting place around here.

[Merijeek]

He left without saying another word. It was the only time I've ever seen anything even remotely out of the ordinary happen at a voting place around here.

Yeah, it's weird. It's almost like a major political party and a major media outlet have spent two years doing nothing but riling up the idjits.

-Joe

[Snowboarder Bo]

Yeah, it's weird. It's almost like a major political party and a major media outlet have spent two years doing nothing but riling up the idjits.

-Joe

^ :p

[Snowboarder Bo]

Harry Reid intends to steal this election if he can't win it outright. (http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/oct/29/questions-about-elections-legitimacy-are-new-low/)

Can you guess who Cleta Mitchell is?

She's Sharron Angle's lawyer. SURPRISE!

So now the Repubs in Nevada have:

A. Urged Hispanics not to vote.
B. Called Hispanics "Asian-looking".
C. Aired TV ads implying that Hispanics are thugs.
D. Accused Harry Reid of stealing an election that hasn't even happened yet.
E. Accused the SEIU of hacking Nevada's voting machines.
F. Accused Rory Reid of some kind of shenanigans because he is the chairman of the Clark County Commission, which oversees elections in Clark County.
G. Said the citizens of the US are "spoiled" because of social welfare programs.
H. Called Mormons cult members. (Ok, that was just Sharron Angle's pastor. But he's a registered Repub, so it counts.)
I. Caused at least 2 fights at public appearances in the last 60 days.

Did I miss any?

The next couple of years are gonna be AWESOME! for Nevada. And when I say "AWESOME!", I of course mean "shit-tastic!".

The best part is gonna be how in 2012, they continue to blame Reid, even tho Angle's been in office for 2 years at that point. Want to bet that the rhetoric from the right becomes "no way we could fix all the problems they created in just 2 years"?

[Snowboarder Bo]

Yep, it seems that ol' John has drunk the kool-aid (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEVADA_SENATE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-10-29-23-27-16).

Sen. John McCain delivered a rousing endorsement of Republican Senate candidate Sharron Angle in an election year that he said would change America.

Speaking at a rally at a Las Vegas casino, the 2008 Republican presidential nominee urged hundreds of cheering supporters to retire Majority Leader Harry Reid after four terms in Washington.

He embraced Angle on stage

[Snowboarder Bo]

They've updated the article I linked to in my previous post.

Who was asking if there's something wrong with the way Nevadans think?

"I don't like the way the country has been going for the past two years," said Torneskog, a conservative Republican who voted for John McCain in 2008. "Harry Reid is too old, he's got old views that are out-of-date."

Good idea! Get rid of the 70 year old. That's far too old and out of touch with today's modern age! I just know that a younger person, like say, a 61 year old, will have a much more up-to-date perspective! I mean, 9 years to a dog is like 54 years, and that would make Harry Reid, um, one plus four.... carry the five.... plus 9... um, 79 years old in dog years, times 7, is uh.... waaaaaay too old!

:dubious:

[Merijeek]

Yep, it seems that ol' John has drunk the kool-aid (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEVADA_SENATE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-10-29-23-27-16).

This is the same old bastard who has been fixing Washington since 1983 or so?

-Joe

[Enuma Elish]

Harry Reid strikes me as someone who has grown to love power so much that he feels he is entitled to it. Many people in Nevada feel that way too and would vote for a steaming pile of poop instead of Reid. After all, its not like you can't vote the poop out in the next election.

[Snowboarder Bo]

Harry Reid strikes me as someone who has grown to love power so much that he feels he is entitled to it. Many people in Nevada feel that way too and would vote for a steaming pile of poop instead of Reid. After all, its not like you can't vote the poop out in the next election.

What has he said or done that gives you that impression?

[Enuma Elish]

Forcing bills through without allowing them to be read. Thinking the government has the right to force citizens to purchase health care even if the citizens don't want to. We had a revolution about who gets to tax and why.

[SenorBeef]

He did this alone, or are you saying we should vote against all democrats regardless of who's running against them?

[Boyo Jim]

This is the same old bastard who has been fixing Washington since 1983 or so?

-Joe

1783

[Enuma Elish]

I didn't say anything about any other Democrats. I may vote for one or two myself. I am talking specifically about Harry Reid and his 'I think I am a Roman Senator' leadership style and the impression that gives.

[SenorBeef]

Of course you said something about other democrats. You pointed to the reason that we need to vote for Angle, no matter how qualified or unqualified she is, is because Reid pushed through a bill without letting people read it and forces people to buy health insurance. Pretty much all democrats did the same thing. Ergo, you're saying we should vote against the main non-democrat candidate no matter how bad that candidate is.

[Chronos]

Forcing bills through without allowing them to be read. Thinking the government has the right to force citizens to purchase health care even if the citizens don't want to. We had a revolution about who gets to tax and why. A: He's allowed the bills to be read. It's not his fault that 40% of the Senate is illiterate. B: The government does have that right. It's all laid out in an obscure document called the Constitution. But I can see how having a senator who's familiar with the Constitution might be off-putting to some.

[Enuma Elish]

Stop putting words in my mouth. I was talking about how Reid is perceived and why people would vote for anything but him. I did not tell anyone who to vote for. I did not say Angle was a good candidate, in fact, I implied she was poop.

My point is that Reid's actions and attitude in wrangling the health-care bill through have pissed off a very large number of Nevadan's to the point that they are voting against him and not for someone else.

Oh, and if you truly think the health-care bill would have passed without Reid's my-way-is-the-only-way leadership, you truly are not considering how the bill was forced through.

I am not a one-issue voter so I can be angry at my state's democrats on this issue, but still consider them as better options than their opponents.

[Fear Itself]

Nevada Senate candidate Sharron Angle's campaign is banning two Las Vegas television stations from covering the candidate's election night party as punishment for asking questions without permission.

Journalists from the local CBS and NBC news affiliates surprised Angle at McCarran International Airport on Friday to ask her questions about national security and unemployment. Video footage shows the GOP (http://projects.washingtonpost.com/politicsglossary/party-affiliated/Republican-Party/) Senate candidate telling the reporters she will answer questions once she is elected.

Hours later, Angle spokeswoman Ciara Matthews told the news stations they are no longer invited to the election night party.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/29/AR2010102905215.html

[Snowboarder Bo]

Forcing bills through without allowing them to be read. Thinking the government has the right to force citizens to purchase health care even if the citizens don't want to. We had a revolution about who gets to tax and why.

So, this is all about the health care bill, then? He's done nothing that you approve of since he first took office as a senator in 1987?

Do you feel similarly about auto insurance or homeowner's insurance, both are which are mandated?

[Snowboarder Bo]

Stop putting words in my mouth. I was talking about how Reid is perceived and why people would vote for anything but him. I did not tell anyone who to vote for. I did not say Angle was a good candidate, in fact, I implied she was poop.

My point is that Reid's actions and attitude in wrangling the health-care bill through have pissed off a very large number of Nevadan's to the point that they are voting against him and not for someone else.

Oh, and if you truly think the health-care bill would have passed without Reid's my-way-is-the-only-way leadership, you truly are not considering how the bill was forced through.

I am not a one-issue voter so I can be angry at my state's democrats on this issue, but still consider them as better options than their opponents.

And yet, when asked about your stance, you brought up only one issue. Why is that?

[Snowboarder Bo]

I can't figure out how to quote a quote without c&p the whole thing, but the LVRJ ran a single column story on Angle's campaign being all butthurt about Channel 8 today (http://www.lvrj.com/news/angle-campaign-bans-channel-8-from-election-day-party-after-airport--ambush--106350118.html), describing the reporter's conduct as an "ambush".

Hopefully neither I nor the SD will get sued by Righthaven for the link or for using the word ambush.

I'd quote something from the article, but that will definitely get a lawsuit slapped against you, as the Angle campaign is well aware (http://www.lvrj.com/news/angle-faces-copyright-lawsuit-over-r-j-articles-102211129.html).

I note with some smirking that the LVRJ and Channel 8 have been doing polls together, and that the LVRJ has endorsed Angle.

Oh, and according to her campaign manager, Ciara Matthews, journalists now need permission to cover a candidate.

[Enuma Elish]

Issue#1 Forcing through bills without allowing them to be read.

Issue#2 Thinking the government has the right to force citizens to purchase health care.

Just because they both happened on one bill doesn't mean they are the same issue. I didn't like it when the Republicans tried the tactic of forcing bills through without allowing the Democrats to read them either.

Homeowner's insurance is not mandated in my state, If you get a home-loan, the bank will have you purchase insurance as part of the loan deal, but there is no government mandate. If my state tried to mandate home-owners insurance, I would be against it.

I am opposed to government mandated auto insurance. Our founding fathers would have shot anyone who tried to do this to their means of transportation. Insurance is just a way of using fear and/or uncertainty to get people to gamble against themselves. If people choose to do this - fine, it is their choice. We don't, however live in the United Insurance-ocracy of America, in spite of the efforts of insurance companies to insinuate themselves into legislation.

Do you like Harry Reid? Why? Are you just interested in what he can give your state? Do you actually think that an independant business should be able to force citizens to purchase their wares?