Is This A Fox In My Yard?

[Clothilde]

The other night I was woken up about 3:00 am by one of the cats doing that weird groaning meow thing and banging on the back patio door. She just kept doing it, so I finally got up to see what she was banging on about. Lo and behold, I saw a strange "dog" looking in through the patio door at her. (To be clear, the cat was inside, the "dog" was outside. I don't let my cats outside.) It being 3:00 am and all, I just told her to leave the little dog alone and I went back to bed. The next morning, I woke up and realized that the dog's head shape was long and narrow, not like any dog I'd ever seen before. So I thought, "Was that a dog or was that a fox?"

I live smack dab in the middle of Montgomery, Alabama. For those of you who know Montgomery, I'm talking INSIDE the bypass. Now, Montgomery has been known for a long time for having red foxes living over off of Perry Hill Road near the interstate, but with all the recent development first at Interstate Park and then later at County Downs, those foxes have kind of gone away. I'm near, but not up against the interstate. And these seem to be grey foxes, not red There's an old abandoned rail line through my neighborhood. So I assume they're living there.

Anyway, I stayed up late the next night and had my handy flip camera with me. About 10:00 pm I caught a short video of one who walked by the back patio door, drank some water out the saucer of one of my big flower pots, then laid down and hung out for a little while on the patio. He eventually went off. A few hours later there were two of them, one a bit smaller than the other. The smaller one literally dashed across my back yard in about 1.5 seconds. I was never able to get any video of those two, but I thoroughly enjoyed watching them. Those creatures are FAST!

I was able to pick out four semi-decent photos from the video of the first one and posted them over on photobucket. I'm sorry for the quality. First, I'm not Stephen Spielberg nor any relation to him, so yes the pictures kind of suck. Second, the video was taken late at night with only the patio light on. Three, the video was taken through a glass security door and while trying to hop over at least one very interested and somewhat offended cat. So again I'm sorry for the quality.

But can you tell me - are these, as I suspect, pictures of a grey fox? Thanks so much!


http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv73/ClothildePics/Fox%20Aug%202010/foxa.jpg

http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv73/ClothildePics/Fox%20Aug%202010/foxb.jpg

http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv73/ClothildePics/Fox%20Aug%202010/foxc.jpg

http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv73/ClothildePics/Fox%20Aug%202010/foxd.jpg

[beowulff]

Yes, that’s a fox.

My folks live just outside Washington, DC, and they’ve had foxes in their backyard, so I’m not too surprised that you have them in the Montgomery area.

[OttoDaFe]

With the clear understanding that what I don't know about canids would fill several libraries . . . the size of the ears and legs would tend to make me think coyote (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyote) rather than fox.

But no doubt someone who knows what they're talking about will be by shortly to give that speculation the mocking it richly deserves.

[Clothilde]

Beowulff, you're fast as a fox! Seven minutes! Wow! I love this place!

I imagine my friends are going to be surprised to learn this. They never believe me about the big hawks that live in the area and occasionally bang into the big glass windows on the back of the house (the hawks, not the friends).

If someone could tell me what to do in order to hook up some kind of webcam thing, I'd like to get better video of them, especially of the two. I think it might be a momma and adolescent. They're adorable!

[Clothilde]

With the clear understanding that what I don't know about canids would fill several libraries . . . the size of the ears and legs would tend to make me think coyote (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyote) rather than fox.

But no doubt someone who knows what they're talking about will be by shortly to give that speculation the mocking it richly deserves.

Otto, I know even less than you do about foxes and coyotes and wolves (oh my!), but I think you make a very good point. I know the county just northwest of here has coyotes. I just thought coyotes were bigger. The blue flowerpot in the pictures is only about 18 inches high. Two feet tops. I can measure it tomorrow. So my guess is the critter stands only about a foot to 1 1/2 feet tall. Wouldn't coyotes be bigger than that? And wouldn't they howl? I've never heard any howling at all. Good thought, though. Something to consider.

[beowulff]

We get a ton of coyotes out here - I’m reasonably sure that’s not a coyote.

[Markxxx]

Foxes are small, they're like the size of a cat. Maybe there are bigger ones. The one's I have seen are about cat size and look like about 10 pounds.

[Dallas Jones]

The white lower jaw line and the tail being held low indicate a coyote. Note that the foxes in the pictures below have shorter, more rounded ears.

From Outdoor Alabama here is a good picture of a Coyote:

http://www.outdooralabama.com/watchable-wildlife/what/Mammals/Carnivores/coyote.cfm

Grey fox
http://www.outdooralabama.com/watchable-wildlife/what/Mammals/Carnivores/gf.cfm

Red Fox
http://www.outdooralabama.com/watchable-wildlife/what/Mammals/Carnivores/rf.cfm

[Rick]

That looks like Wile Coyote to me. Particularly the last picture. Small but a coyote to me.
first time I saw a fox in the wild, my reaction was: Look, a cat. HOLY SHIT look at the tail on that cat. Wait, that isn't a cat, it is a fox. :)

ETA: Do you have roadrunners in your neighborhood?

[Ogre]

Tough to say. We need clearer photos. Could be a coyote (although juvenile coyotes usually don't have adult facial patterning, and that one does) or a gray fox (but I can't really see the thin black mask usually associated with the gray fox).

[Clothilde]

We get a ton of coyotes out here - I’m reasonably sure that’s not a coyote.

I think my pictures being kind of crappy makes things unclear. If someone can tell me how to set up a webcam (or two) then I'd be willing to try to get better pictures. I just don't know how to do it.

Foxes are small, they're like the size of a cat. Maybe there are bigger ones. The one's I have seen are about cat size and look like about 10 pounds.

Marxxx, the ones I've seen are small like a cat. Ten pounds sounds about right.

The white lower jaw line and the tail being held low indicate a coyote. Note that the foxes in the pictures below have shorter, more rounded ears.

Ghardester, when I look at the picture of the fox you posted, the one thing that I notice is that it has the "wide cheek fur" like a cat. The faces of the critters I'm seeing don't have that cat-like face. More like a dog. Of course, when I've seen them anywhere-near-up-close it's been like 3 or 4 in the morning when I should be sleeping, so I could easily be wrong.

That looks like Wile Coyote to me. Particularly the last picture. Small but a coyote to me.
first time I saw a fox in the wild, my reaction was: Look, a cat. HOLY SHIT look at the tail on that cat. Wait, that isn't a cat, it is a fox. :)

ETA: Do you have roadrunners in your neighborhood?

Haha, Rick! We have a couple of RoadRunner gas stations and a Roadrunner delivery service in Montgomery. We also have a couple of ACME companies. Should I keep an eye out for explodey things? :D

To clarify a little on the critters' colors, they're mostly beige, with some grey on their backs and in their tail and legs/feet. And stripes on their faces.

[Clothilde]

Tough to say. We need clearer photos. Could be a coyote (although juvenile coyotes usually don't have adult facial patterning, and that one does) or a gray fox (but I can't really see the thin black mask usually associated with the gray fox).

Ogre, I agree that better pictures are needed. I can't stay up til 3 am every night, but a few times the last couple of nights I've seen one out in the yard around 10 pm. I'll try to look for a mask the next time I see one of them, even if I can't get a good picture of it.

[Ogre]

Tough to say. We need clearer photos. Could be a coyote (although juvenile coyotes usually don't have adult facial patterning, and that one does) or a gray fox (but I can't really see the thin black mask usually associated with the gray fox).

Ogre, I agree that better pictures are needed. I can't stay up til 3 am every night, but a few times the last couple of nights I've seen one out in the yard around 10 pm. I'll try to look for a mask the next time I see one of them, even if I can't get a good picture of it.Oh, and I grew up in Montgomery! My family are still pretty much all located there. I'm at a safe distance. :)

[Magiver]

Foxes have fluffy tails, narrow snouts, and shorter bodies. It looks like a young coyote to me but the pictures can be misleading.

[Wile E]

That looks like Wile Coyote to me. Particularly the last picture. Small but a coyote to me.
first time I saw a fox in the wild, my reaction was: Look, a cat. HOLY SHIT look at the tail on that cat. Wait, that isn't a cat, it is a fox. :)

ETA: Do you have roadrunners in your neighborhood?

I assure you I was no where near that place.

Obviously, it's a family of Chupacabras. They're everywhere these days.

[GusNSpot]

A fox. We feed them in our yard. Not a coyote, a fox.

http://picasaweb.google.com/Dragon43/GreyGhost#

http://picasaweb.google.com/Dragon43/62908day#

http://picasaweb.google.com/Dragon43/July09#5356304598417597186

http://picasaweb.google.com/Dragon43/2010February#5437221803445430210

[AClockworkMelon]

Yeah, I've seen coyotes in person and that doesn't look like a coyote to me. Its body is too fluffy. The coyotes I've seen have really short, scruffy fur that makes their torsos look lean. Take what I'm saying with a grain of salt, considering I don't really know what I'm talking about.

[Ferret Herder]

I've had red foxes (bigger than cats) and coyotes around my house, and that looks like a fox to me. The pics are blurry and I can see the potential for confusion, but I'm reasonably sure it's a fox. Check Gus' photos and those at the Wiki link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_fox).

[Ferret Herder]

The white lower jaw line and the tail being held low indicate a coyote. Note that the foxes in the pictures below have shorter, more rounded ears.
Gray foxes have white lower jaws too (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GrayFoxApr04NFla.jpg).

[Sailboat]

I'm surprised by how alike some of the coyote and gray fox photos look. Some coyote pics I Googled have big fluffy tails, for example.

IMHO, the most visible differentiation that seems consistent is that coyotes have longer legs. They seem to be rangier overall. Based on that, I'd diagnose your blurry photos as foxes -- they just don't have that gangly look.

[Al Bundy]

That sure looks like a red fox to me. We have many around here. The one you pictured has a poor coat in my estimation. A fox's fur usually is fuller and stands out more. They look much bigger than their actual weight. A 6# fox can look like a 15# dog. A fox survives because of its speed. This allows them to be seen and still make an escape. However, when a fox lets itself be seen by humans and persists in presenting itself at your house, you should be aware that such foxes are often sick with rabies. Whether they are or not, a fox will attack a human. We have had several events here in suburban type neighborhoods. Many times they run up behind a person walking and take a nip. Then the person is off to the clinic for shots. Nice pictures, but don't get in touch with the animal.

PS. That fox is not looking to make a friend of your pet. That's a hungry fox looking for a meal. They prefer squirrels and mice, but a small dog is fair game when hungry. Foxes are willing to team up for a kill.

[Zsofia]

We had a rabid fox in our neighborhood last year - be very careful with your pets and make sure your vaccines are up to date. I believe there was also some concern about distemper, but they could only test for one of the two diseases?

[RalfCoder]

My first thought was "coyote", but I am NOT an expert, and the photo quality is not good, either. So count this as a vote for coyote, rather than a definitive identification.

GusNSpot, your 3rd picture, the one with the cat watching the fox, has me nervous. A fox will happily make a meal out of a pet if it gets the chance. I was working with a friend in the back yard a few years ago, and I heard a rustle in the corn field behind us. The corn was maybe 2-3 feet high then. One of our cats came screaming out of the corn faster than I've ever seen her move before. Right behind her was a red fox. The fox made it about 30 feet into the open before it realized that I was there. He pulled up short, did a U-turn, and disappeared, all in about 5 seconds. My friend never even saw it happen, I think.

[Clothilde]

I'm surprised by how alike some of the coyote and gray fox photos look. Some coyote pics I Googled have big fluffy tails, for example.

IMHO, the most visible differentiation that seems consistent is that coyotes have longer legs. They seem to be rangier overall. Based on that, I'd diagnose your blurry photos as foxes -- they just don't have that gangly look.

I agree with you, that to someone like me who really doesn't know much about them, they look very much alike.

That sure looks like a red fox to me. We have many around here. The one you pictured has a poor coat in my estimation. A fox's fur usually is fuller and stands out more. They look much bigger than their actual weight. A 6# fox can look like a 15# dog. A fox survives because of its speed. This allows them to be seen and still make an escape. However, when a fox lets itself be seen by humans and persists in presenting itself at your house, you should be aware that such foxes are often sick with rabies. Whether they are or not, a fox will attack a human. We have had several events here in suburban type neighborhoods. Many times they run up behind a person walking and take a nip. Then the person is off to the clinic for shots. Nice pictures, but don't get in touch with the animal.

Thanks for the concern, Al. I don't intend to ever get in touch with it. I don't think it has rabies, though. I honestly think it's a family just trying to raise a youngster. I agree that they're coming into the yard because they're obviously hungry. Last night I peeked out the glass door long enough to see the single one (which I'm calling the daddy) on the patio snatch up some kind of buzzing bug and run off with it. I suppose it was a cicada, even though those usually screech in alarm in stead of buzz, but whatever it was was buzzing really loudly. Then a few minutes later I saw the same one over on the side of the yard underneath the pear tree. It grabbed one of the pears on the ground and took off. I would have been happy for it to stay and eat all of them. I hate the pears laying on the ground like that. I usually rake them up and toss them, but I admit I haven't done it so far this year. The squirrels will pick the pears, take one little bite, and then throw them on the ground. Oh, I just realized that I haven't seen as many squirrels this year. Must be the foxes/coyotes/chupacabras are keeping their numbers down. And as far as their size, they look like they only weigh about five pounds. Really. They're only about a foot or so tall and are very thin.

PS. That fox is not looking to make a friend of your pet. That's a hungry fox looking for a meal. They prefer squirrels and mice, but a small dog is fair game when hungry. Foxes are willing to team up for a kill.

We had a rabid fox in our neighborhood last year - be very careful with your pets and make sure your vaccines are up to date. I believe there was also some concern about distemper, but they could only test for one of the two diseases?

My first thought was "coyote", but I am NOT an expert, and the photo quality is not good, either. So count this as a vote for coyote, rather than a definitive identification.

GusNSpot, your 3rd picture, the one with the cat watching the fox, has me nervous. A fox will happily make a meal out of a pet if it gets the chance. I was working with a friend in the back yard a few years ago, and I heard a rustle in the corn field behind us. The corn was maybe 2-3 feet high then. One of our cats came screaming out of the corn faster than I've ever seen her move before. Right behind her was a red fox. The fox made it about 30 feet into the open before it realized that I was there. He pulled up short, did a U-turn, and disappeared, all in about 5 seconds. My friend never even saw it happen, I think.

I agree with all of you that these animals are obviously hungry. As I said in my OP, I don't ever let my cats out. I don't have dogs. I know that foxes can team up to chase and capture a cat. I don't intend to feed these creatures, other than they are welcome to all the bugs and fallen pears they can eat.

All of this discussion may end up being moot as of this morning. Today I heard the industrial weedeaters going. The city is back there doing their once-a-year weed whacking of all the grass/weeds/kudzu/wildlife that they allow to grow up like a jungle along the abandoned rail line until somebody calls up hopping mad and complaining. From past experience I know they'll be at it all day. So they may end up running off these animals and I may never see them again.

[Clothilde]

Oh, and I grew up in Montgomery! My family are still pretty much all located there. I'm at a safe distance. :)

It may surprise you, but I totally understand what you mean!

I assure you I was no where near that place.

Obviously, it's a family of Chupacabras. They're everywhere these days.

Sure....excuses, excuses. Do you like pears? :D

[cosmosdan]

Is

this (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images.psxextreme.com/wallpapers/ps3/megan_fox_01.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.psxextreme.com/ps3-wallpapers/142.html&usg=__uOvruShYgWZ6fi2QAx12ywbjk1w=&h=1080&w=1728&sz=182&hl=en&start=10&tbnid=S0EoKQUHKD1PUM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmegan%2Bfox%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1339%26bih%3D583%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C87&um=1&itbs=1&ei=eTJYTMmWOoP58AaYpNGvCw&biw=1339&bih=583)

a fox in my yard?

[Wile E]

Oh, and I grew up in Montgomery! My family are still pretty much all located there. I'm at a safe distance. :)

It may surprise you, but I totally understand what you mean!

I assure you I was no where near that place.

Obviously, it's a family of Chupacabras. They're everywhere these days.

Sure....excuses, excuses. Do you like pears? :D

Pears! Uh ... maybe, they're okay. Whatever.

[Sailboat]

GusNSpot, your 3rd picture, the one with the cat watching the fox, has me nervous. A fox will happily make a meal out of a pet if it gets the chance.

Earlier this summer I posted about (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12606222&postcount=22) a fox coming out of the woods and following our two dogs while we (two humans) were walking them. I have no idea why the fox was so bold. It seems unlikely the intent was to overpower two alert, strong, much larger dogs and two humans.

[Clothilde]

Pears! Uh ... maybe, they're okay. Whatever.


:D

[cosmosdan]

GusNSpot, your 3rd picture, the one with the cat watching the fox, has me nervous. A fox will happily make a meal out of a pet if it gets the chance.

Earlier this summer I posted about (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12606222&postcount=22) a fox coming out of the woods and following our two dogs while we (two humans) were walking them. I have no idea why the fox was so bold. It seems unlikely the intent was to overpower two alert, strong, much larger dogs and two humans.

That is unusual. I had that happen with a raccon once and later discovered that the raccon had been raised by a family with a dog before it was released into the wild.

[Clothilde]

Update:

I checked several times last night up until about 1:00 am, and there was no sign of any of the critters. Earlier in the afternoon I had gone over to peek at the area by the abandoned rail line to see how badly it was cut, and it was shorn pretty well. My guess at this point is that all the noise and commotion and cutting ran the foxes/coyotes off, at least temporarily. I'll keep checking to see if they come back. I just hope the city employees didn't do anything to hurt or kill them. :(

[purplehorseshoe]

Nah - those machines make such a racket, any wildlife with functioning legs is already a mile away. Your vistors should be fine, wherever they are.

[JerseyFrank]

That's no fox. It's a space station!

[pravnik]

I've seen many dozens of coyotes and a handful of foxes, and I'm reasonably sure that's a fox and not a coyote. The snout is pointier and the facial markings are different. Look at the facial markings in your photo:http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv73/ClothildePics/Fox%20Aug%202010/foxa.jpgAnd the ones on this fox:

http://www.wild-life-rehab.com/Education%20Page%20Photos/Red_Fox_Adult.jpg

Contrast with this coyote:

http://www.pinebarrensanimals.com/web_images/pix1/coyote1.jpg

[Clothilde]

The face in my picture really does look like the fox in your picture, doesn't it?

The thing that really surprised me so much about these critters was how SMALL they were. I had seen red foxes before on the side of the road, killed by a passing car, and they were bigger than this. Maybe two feet tall. Maybe a little bit less. Like a moderate-sized dog. But this little fella who kept showing up in my yard, along with the other two, were only a foot tall, tops. Are foxes usually so small?

And the youngster. He/she was just FULL of joy! Literally bounding and racing all over the yard, and "catching" pears he/she discovered on the ground, grabbing them in his/her jaws and tossing them in the air, then grabbing them again and rushing off with them to go show "momma" what he/she had discovered. It was adorable!

There was no appearance again last night. I stopped looking at 10:00, though. I am hoping they come back again before the summer's over.

[lavenderviolet]

My thought was coyote. It would make more sense to see a coyote in a highly developed area. Coyotes are really thriving in modern suburbia over the last few years. I really am glad that you arent letting your cats roam. With the increase in coyotes nowadays (even if this particular one was a fox) it isn't safe for cats to roam outside.

[Clothilde]

My thought was coyote. It would make more sense to see a coyote in a highly developed area. Coyotes are really thriving in modern suburbia over the last few years. I really am glad that you arent letting your cats roam. With the increase in coyotes nowadays (even if this particular one was a fox) it isn't safe for cats to roam outside.

I've never let my cats outside. I'm just one of those people who believes cats fare much better inside. It's too easy for cats to fall prey to cars and poison and mean people, in addition to coyotes and foxes and hungry hawks.

I have always thought of coyotes as being a "western" animal, not something that lives right smack dab in the middle of the heart of Dixie. But one of my friends who lives in Autauga county told me they had coyotes there. At first I didn't believe her. I would have expected her to talk about the squirrels they had. Or the possums. But not coyotes. Yet there they were. We also have armadillos all over the state. Ugly things. You see them smushed alongside the road all the time.

Anyway, I agree that it isn't safe to let any pets roam outside.

[lavenderviolet]

Coyotes have benefited a lot from humans. Sort of like raccoons and squirrels, they have adapted to living near people. There are coyotes even in places as developed as downtown Chicago and New York City. They just find places to hide so most people don't realize how close they are.
I have heard that they hunt pests like rats and mice, so I don't think their presence in cities is anything to be alarmed about. Hopefully as time goes by more people will realize that it's important to protect small dogs and cats from them. I do feel very bad about it when I hear about coyotes killing pet cats.

[Ferret Herder]

There are coyotes even in places as developed as downtown Chicago and New York City. They just find places to hide so most people don't realize how close they are.
Sometimes they fail (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17950832/) at finding a good hiding place. :D