Ramadan in the North Pole

[Laudenum]

Ramadan lasts from sunset to sunrise (or vice-versa).

Obviously this can't work in the North Pole, or any Arctic area - they would all starve to death.

When does an arctic Muslim fast?

[Peremensoe]

There aren't many Arctic Muslims, are there? Now we know why.

[Chimera]

Conversely, do Muslims at the South Pole not have to fast at all?

With the ISS orbiting about every 90 minutes, does that Muslims on board have 45 minutes to eat and 45 minutes to fast? 16 times in one day? That would seem pretty easy.

While we're asking fanciful questions, in what direction do Muslims in the vicinity of Betelguese pray?

[Desert Nomad]

Most Muslims at extreme latitudes just use the times for Mecca or some point in a more moderate latitude close to them.

[TruCelt]

I had a friend here in DC who nonetheless used the Mecca times.

[installLSC]

According to this group (http://www.amjaonline.com/en_f_details.php?fid=21730), there most acceptable way is either to use Saudi time or the time of the closest nonpolar region. Either way just ignoring Ramadan rules isn't an option.

[Nunavut Boy]

I had a muslim co-worker once; I asked her this exact question and she said she used the times from home.

[Chronos]

I believe that the most common answer is to use the times corresponding to the nearest mosque. And a Muslim on the Space Station probably prays on a schedule corresponding to the time they keep on the station.

Islam really isn't all that legalistic a religion. It's more important that you do the best you can by God than it is that you follow all of the rules exactly to the letter. Allah is all-knowing and all-wise, and understands that the rules must necessarily work a little differently at extreme latitudes, or on a space station, or whatever.

[Shmendrik]

Islam really isn't all that legalistic a religion.

It isn't? Compared to what?

[panamajack]

The first Muslim astronaut (as far as I know, or at least the first who cared) went on the ISS in 2007. At the time, a set of guidelines was produced. Here's an article (http://www.wired.com/science/space/news/2007/09/mecca_in_orbit) on the astronaut including a link to the document. It's important to point out that these are merely guidelines, and while produced by consensus from a group, there's no particular authority to them that a Muslim would be required to follow.

[GilaB]

Islam really isn't all that legalistic a religion.

It isn't? Compared to what?
Judaism. There's a reason we all become lawyers :D

[Shmendrik]

It isn't? Compared to what?
Judaism. There's a reason we all become lawyers :D

I find that deeply offensive... some of us become doctors and accountants. But seriously, as far as I can tell Judaism and Islam are remarkably similar in their degree of, er, legalisticness. If anything, the Wired article makes Islam seem more centralized and formal compared to Judaism. A (practicing) Jewish astronaut would ask his rabbi what to do about various religious observances in orbit. The rabbi would answer based on his own knowledge, or refer to a previously published p'sak, which exist because individual halachic authorities have discussed the issue in the past. In this case, the Islamic fatwa was made jointly by a large group of scholars. Even the existence of something called the "National Fatwa Council" in Malaysia sounds more organized than anything found in Judaism.

[Chronos]

Eh, it was an interesting case, so a lot of folks weighed in on it.

[Shinna Minna Ma]

Judaism. There's a reason we all become lawyers :D

In this case, the Islamic fatwa was made jointly by a large group of scholars. Even the existence of something called the "National Fatwa Council" in Malaysia sounds more organized than anything found in Judaism.

Really? What about the RCA (http://www.rabbis.org/)?

[qazwart]

[I am not sure how Muslim law treats this, but Jewish laws has many similar issues. For example, what if you're observing Shabbat while crossing the International Date Line (http://www.star-k.org/kashrus/kk-trav-dateline.htm). And, how do you celebrate Shabbat at the poles (http://www.ascentofsafed.com/cgi-bin/ascent.cgi?Name=t03q24)?

I guess you can assume that Muslims would take a similar position.

[Shmendrik]

In this case, the Islamic fatwa was made jointly by a large group of scholars. Even the existence of something called the "National Fatwa Council" in Malaysia sounds more organized than anything found in Judaism.

Really? What about the RCA (http://www.rabbis.org/)?

People don't ask halachic questions to the RCA.

[Gukumatz]

This has become a bit of a cliché in Norway, Land of the Midnight Sun and all that. According to the people I've asked, if they're in the north during Ramadan, they either receive dispensation from fasting or get set times to do it. There's a stubborn rumour that two muslims who went to the north country starved to death in the 60's, having been caught unawares by the Sun's refusal to go under the horizon. As there's nothing to back it up, the story remains apocryphal.

[Sailboat]

Related question answered by our resident know-it-all:

How do Muslims know which direction to face while praying? (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2360/how-do-muslims-know-which-way-to-face-when-praying)

[Anne Neville]

Really? What about the RCA (http://www.rabbis.org/)?

They're an Orthodox rabbinical group. Their decisions wouldn't be considered authoritative by Conservative or Reform Jews. There are probably some Orthodox Jews for whom they're not Orthodox enough. I'm not sure how much weight their opinions would carry outside the US, either.

Interesting Washington Post article about Ramadan and conflicts between various Muslim groups over how to determine when it starts. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/10/AR2010081005777.html?referrer=emailarticlepg)

Of all the things we Jews fight about, at least the calendar isn't one of them (other than the quibble about whether holidays should be one day or two).

[CookingWithGas]

Islam is like most other religions--there are lots of different flavors, and there is lots to disagree about. Even Muslims in the same location can't agree about when Ramadan starts. An article in today's Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/10/AR2010081005777.html)gives some insight. Like many such conflicts the motivation is usually more political than theological.

Islam prescribes many behaviors, though a lot of this is interpretation of the life of Mohammed rather than anything spelled out in the Qu'ran. These is readily seen if you look at how Muslim women dress in Saudi Arabia, Taliban-controlled Afghanistan, Egypt, and the U.S. Another such "legislated" behavior is the five prayers each day, their timing, and the ritualistic washing to occur each time.

[Gala Matrix Fire]

The first Muslim astronaut (as far as I know, or at least the first who cared) went on the ISS in 2007...

First Muslim in space was prince Sultan bin Salman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultan_bin_Salman_bin_Abdulaziz_Al_Saud)of Saudi Arabia, who was a payload specialist aboard the Discovery in 1985. The voyage took place at the tail end of Ramadan, so he had fasting concerns as well as concerns about prayer times.

[matt_mcl]

A (practicing) Jewish astronaut would ask his rabbi what to do about various religious observances in orbit. The rabbi would answer based on his own knowledge, or refer to a previously published p'sak, which exist because individual halachic authorities have discussed the issue in the past.

I enjoyed this (http://www.star-k.org/kashrus/kk-whendoesonepraywhenthereisnoday.htm)a great deal:

Ideally, one should not travel to outer space.

[Chimera]

[I enjoyed this (http://www.star-k.org/kashrus/kk-whendoesonepraywhenthereisnoday.htm)a great deal:

Ideally, one should not travel to outer space.

So.....no Jews In Space??? :(

[Shmendrik]

A (practicing) Jewish astronaut would ask his rabbi what to do about various religious observances in orbit. The rabbi would answer based on his own knowledge, or refer to a previously published p'sak, which exist because individual halachic authorities have discussed the issue in the past.

I enjoyed this (http://www.star-k.org/kashrus/kk-whendoesonepraywhenthereisnoday.htm)a great deal:

Ideally, one should not travel to outer space.

Far be it from me to weigh various Jewish authorities against each other, but I think Mel Brooks would disagree.

[tim-n-va]

Islam really isn't all that legalistic a religion.

It isn't? Compared to what?

Maybe the Catholic Church. I've heard (co-workers and the unfailable internet), that the fasting can be skipped to accomodate legitimate health issues. But someone with Celiac disease still is required to have a wheat communion wafer by the Catholic Church.

[Sailboat]

But someone with Celiac disease still is required to have a wheat communion wafer by the Catholic Church.

Can't they just transubstantiate the Body of Christ into something wheat-free? Isn't it supposed to be a miracle, not a chemical process with a fixed result?

[Keeve]

Can't they just transubstantiate the Body of Christ into something wheat-free? Isn't it supposed to be a miracle, not a chemical process with a fixed result?Good point. Maybe the rule is that it has to start out as being made of wheat.

[tim-n-va]

Not Catholic but I do have Celiac. On the discussion boards at celiac.com this is a topic that pops up at least a few times per month and apparently very low wheat content is acceptable there has to be some wheat.

But aren't stomach cramps and diarrhea a small price to pay for eternal life? :dubious:

[matt_mcl]

But someone with Celiac disease still is required to have a wheat communion wafer by the Catholic Church.

I thought Catholics could communicate in either species and someone unable to tolerate any wheat could partake of the wine only.

[qazwart]

Really? What about the RCA (http://www.rabbis.org/)?

They're an Orthodox rabbinical group. Their decisions wouldn't be considered authoritative by Conservative or Reform Jews. There are probably some Orthodox Jews for whom they're not Orthodox enough. I'm not sure how much weight their opinions would carry outside the US, either.

And what type of question on Jewish law would a Reformed Jew ask? Certainly not questions of Kashrut or Shabbat.

The point of Reformed Judaism was to get away what they claimed was "Kitchen Judaism". It was to break away from bounds of Halacha (the code of Jewish law).

The RCA doesn't poskin (i.e. interpret Jewish Law), but they do have various discussions on Jewish law and principles which can have a wide range of opinions. You are suppose to ask your own Orthodox Rabbi if you have a particular question on Jewish law. In fact, if you asked another Rabbi, he is suppose to tell you he can't poskin for you. You should ask your Rabbi that question.

There is sort of a Rabbinical hierarchy, but it's informal. It is sort of like any hierarchy of scholars. They are people who are recognized as experts in certain areas Jewish law whose opinions carry a lot of weight. But, again, you're suppose to ask your Rabbi.

Interesting Washington Post article about Ramadan and conflicts between various Muslim groups over how to determine when it starts. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/10/AR2010081005777.html?referrer=emailarticlepg)

Of all the things we Jews fight about, at least the calendar isn't one of them (other than the quibble about whether holidays should be one day or two).

Well, our calendar was actually fixed back about 1800 years ago when we realized that setting the date via new moon from Jerusalem was getting impossible to do. Officially, there was a Jewish court in Jerusalem that decided when the new moon occurred and when the new month started. However, when it became impossible for the court to meet, the calendar was fixed.

Having an official court in Jerusalem meant that many Jews outside of Israel might not know when the month started until the end of the month. That meant you really weren't sure when a holiday was suppose to be celebrated. Since months could have 29 or 30 days, you simply celebrated both possible dates. It's why outside of Israel certain holidays are two days. Even in Israel Rosh Hashanah is two days long because it's at the beginning of the month, and there was no way in the midst of the holiday celebration to know which of the two days were the first of the month.

The Muslims simplified the concept by having each community do its own siting for the new moon instead of a centralized authority in Mecca. That works out well when a country has an official Islamic religious authority like in Saudi Arabia or Iran. But, in a place like the U.S., there is no official authority.

By the way, I grew up as a Reformed Jew. The local Reformed Temple's Rabbi couldn't speak Hebrew and they would serve pork and cheese burgers over there. That was a bit too much for my parents, so we went to the Conservative Synagogue. Not that we didn't eat port or cheese burgers or could speak Hebrew. It's that my parents thought the Rabbi should be keeping kosher and be able to read from the Torah.

Despite our Synagogue membership we were "Reformed". In fact, I use to joke we celebrated only three days of Passover because after three days my mom got sick of the Matzoh crumbs all over the house.