Is Jan Brewer an alcoholic?

[Cisco]

First of all, this is not a Brewer-bashing thread. Despite disagreeing with her on most issues, I actually don't hate Jan Brewer. She is good for education, she personally loves my school, and some of the cost-cutting measures she has done are unfortunate, but probably necessary, and I tentatively support them as long as they are reversed when times aren't so lean anymore. Besides that, she can be quite charming.

Now, that being said, the woman just consistently looks drunk as fuck. I'm sure by now most of you have seen the debate clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUPKKbmWMZ8) from last night. That actually isn't the best example of her looking drunk (could have just been nerves), but it's the easiest to find right now.

I saw her speak in person last week, with 2 other people; 1 who is voting for her, me, who is not voting for her, and a 3rd who is undecided. Afterwards, all 3 of us said - independently of each other - that she came off "like a friendly old drunk lady."

I'm wondering if there is any published record of alcoholism in her past (as with W. Bush), or if any alcoholics here see familiar signs when they watch her speak.

And just a funny postscript: her maiden name is Drinkwine and she married a Brewer :p:D.

[foolsguinea]

With those names, I'm thinking she was doomed to it. Maybe she doesn't drink, but her names do it for her. Dianetics in action, almost. :eek:

[Snowboarder Bo]

She's fucking hammered in that clip. No doubt. Shitfaced.

Four or five sheets to the wind.

In line to drive the porcelain bus.

Getting ready for a technicolor yawn.

[MeanOldLady]

[S]he came off "like a friendly old drunk lady."This is a good thing, yes?

[BrainGlutton]

She's fucking hammered in that clip. No doubt. Shitfaced.

Four or five sheets to the wind.

In line to drive the porcelain bus.

Getting ready for a technicolor yawn.

Or else she just really is that dumb.

[Llama Llogophile]

She's definitely drinking too much. Or perhaps not enough.

I was about to start a thread about her bizarre behavior in that debate. Wasn't sure how to phrase it, but my question was going to be something like, "Is this woman really that stupid?" I don't think I've ever seen a high office holder come off as badly as that.

[Starving Artist]

Seemed like she suffered a couple of major-league brain farts, or was blinded by the lights. Or the green room was too well stocked. :D It's hard to say.

[Frank]

The OP appears to me to be a cheap shot.

Cisco, you live in Arizona. You live in the capital of Arizona. If there is any evidence that the governor of your state is an alcoholic, you - of all people - should know what it is.

Your anecdotal trifecta is a bit weird, too. You went to hear her speak with two others. Each offered an independent opinion. All three of you said it at the exact same time to other people? Or what?

[Cisco]

Why would I have privileged information just because I live in the capital, Frank?

As for my "weird" trifecta: I said it to my wife, my brother said it to me, and my dad said it to my mom.

[Cisco]

[S]he came off "like a friendly old drunk lady."This is a good thing, yes?

1st person or 3rd person perspective?

[Frank]

Why would I have privileged information just because I live in the capital, Frank?
Because the information is available to you, if you wish it to be. I spent 15 years living in the capital of Colorado, and between the print, radio, TV, online, and conversational versions of political news available to me there, there were very few rumors or facts about our governors that I did not have some knowledge of. I'm skeptical that any other state capital has less available information.

As far as I can tell, you're making this up out of thin air.

Brewer didn't look good in that clip, I agree. I see no evidence that it was because she was drunk. Since you don't have background evidence that her being drunk was a likelihood - and you are, in fact, trolling for evidence - I see no reason to give your OP any credence.

Should evidence appear, I'll rethink my position. Till then, I've had my say.

[Simplicio]

The debate clip just looks like she totally spaces on her prepared remarks and then doesn't recover very well. Seems more like a senior moment then being drunk, IMHO.

Cisco, you live in Arizona. You live in the capital of Arizona. If there is any evidence that the governor of your state is an alcoholic, you - of all people - should know what it is.

What a silly claim.

[Frank]

Cisco, you live in Arizona. You live in the capital of Arizona. If there is any evidence that the governor of your state is an alcoholic, you - of all people - should know what it is.

What a silly claim.
Nonsense. Any person who claims to be politically aware and who lives in the capital of their state has the best opportunity to follow and be aware of their state's politics, and has no excuse to plead ignorance.

[BrainGlutton]

The debate clip just looks like she totally spaces on her prepared remarks and then doesn't recover very well. Seems more like a senior moment then being drunk, IMHO.

And a drunk will be sober tomorrow, but . . .

[Belowjob2.0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUNtofsW3zE&NR=1


She looks a lot better here, from a few months(?) ago. Lot more alert and engaged. But she still has some brain farts. She's not much of a speaker.

Something's going on with the lady right now. Health issues? Pills? Not necessarily booze. Booze would be pretty easy for those interacting with her to detect wouldn't it?

[Snowboarder Bo]

Why would I have privileged information just because I live in the capital, Frank?
Because the information is available to you, if you wish it to be. I spent 15 years living in the capital of Colorado, and between the print, radio, TV, online, and conversational versions of political news available to me there, there were very few rumors or facts about our governors that I did not have some knowledge of. I'm skeptical that any other state capital has less available information.

As far as I can tell, you're making this up out of thin air.

Brewer didn't look good in that clip, I agree. I see no evidence that it was because she was drunk. Since you don't have background evidence that her being drunk was a likelihood - and you are, in fact, trolling for evidence - I see no reason to give your OP any credence.

Should evidence appear, I'll rethink my position. Till then, I've had my say.

What a ridiculous bunch of "logic".

If we all thought the way you did, no one would ever have suspicions of anything until something blew up in their face.

And I concur that your thesis that somehow proximity = knowledge is ridiculous and can easily be falsified by finding any one thing that any one "knowledgeable" person doesn't know, which is especially easy when your talking about newly unfolding events or current affairs.

[astro]

I think I can with some authority as the son of mother who was the same social class and general education level as the Governor and who was a chronic alcoholic.

The Governor is 66 years old and (per the video) IMO is suffering from memory lapses which could be due to mini-strokes, incipient dementia or simply age. A drunk has impaired motor skills which slightly, but noticeably, slurs their words. There was none of that. In between the epic brain farts her overall enunciation and speaking skills were not impaired in the least.

There's a physical issue of some sort, but it's not alcohol.

[BigT]

What a silly claim.
Nonsense. Any person who claims to be politically aware and who lives in the capital of their state has the best opportunity to follow and be aware of their state's politics, and has no excuse to plead ignorance.

Why do you assume that rumors like that would be published? Or why do you assume that most people are that politically aware follow rumors and not just reported facts?

I know I personally avoid rumors in anything, because it just leads to idle speculation and worry on my part.

And why do you characterize asking for evidence one way or other on a forum of other people who are politically aware (and might actually know what alcoholism looks like) as a bad thing? Bad enough to use a word like "trolling" on a board where not only is trolling against the rules, but so is accusing people of it?

[Cisco]

It looks like Frank was using the pre-internet definition of trolling, but one has to wonder how else a person finds evidence, if not by looking for it. So maybe that word choice did mean something. And apart from that his behavior in this thread has been just bizarre, IMO. I wonder if it's Frank Brewer or Frank Drinkwine.

[BigT]

I know that, but, by choosing that particular word, he implies that what you were doing was just as bad as the Internet version.

[Vinyl Turnip]

The OP appears to me to be a cheap shot.

Yeah. Poor woman's had way too many cheap shots already!

[Troy McClure SF]

Relevant (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/09/jan-brewer-speechless-on-headless-bodies-video.php).

[Snowboarder Bo]

Thanks, Troy. I had been reading about that in the paper this morning, but hadn't yet seen the clip.

This lady is fucked. I can't imagine how she'll get elected, especially if this type of thing continues from her, but if she does get elected, I think AZ will find itself fucked up beyond anything we can envision at the end of her term.

This is gonna be great fun to watch!

[gonzomax]

We all have encountered drunks like acted like she did in the debate. That is not proof of course. But it sure makes you wonder. It was her opening speech that she probably rehearsed 50 times. It was very important for setting a tone. It did ,but not like she wanted. She should have said forgive m," I am a tea bagger so cut me some slack".
She acted totally befuddled when the press asked her what was going on. She could have defused it with any reasonable answer. She had none. It was a horrible performance that will not sway tea baggers away from her.

[furt]

Relevant (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/09/jan-brewer-speechless-on-headless-bodies-video.php).That bothers me a lot more than the clip in the OP.

I don't know that she was drunk, but she is clearly addled in some way or the other. Dementia?

[Saint Cad]

Too bad she isn't running against Phil Gordon. She'd look sober by comparison.

[ElvisL1ves]

My first thought was "over-rehearsed" - she had the look of someone who had her script memorized, but forgot a cue and had to improvise, something her "advisers" had sternly told her not to do.

[Snowboarder Bo]

Well, today she sort of backpedaled on her beaheadings comment.

That was an error, if I said that. (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_ARIZONA_GOVERNOR?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-09-03-18-29-23)

If?

...the kidnappings and the extortion and the beheadings and the fact that people can't feel safe in their community.

Oh, our law enforcement agencies have found bodies in the desert, either buried or just lying out there, that have been beheaded.

IF???

[descamisado]

Originally Posted by AZ Gov. Jan Brewer
Oh, our law enforcement agencies have found bodies in the desert, either buried or just lying out there, that have been beheaded.This proves she was not talking about bodies being found in Mexico either.

She has a pretty substantial lead over her opponent so it doesn't look like he'll overtake her, unless she commits several more major blunders and his campaigns comes on really strong.

And, okay, I'll say it: does she not have any other jacket but that lemon-lime number? She needs to take a page from the Sarah Palin Book of Campaign Perks -- I'll forgive her if it gives my eyes a rest!

[BrainGlutton]

Still, Brewer has been leading Goddard soundly. (http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Arizona_gubernatorial_election,_2010) Are any post-debate polls available yet?

[pohjonen]

The sad thing is she'll probably still win. *shudder*

[Cisco]

Oh, she's pretty much a lock. The whole "git the fedrul guhmint oudda mah bizniss / I'll keep mah guns and munny, you keep the 'CHANGE'" thing is huge here, and she's playing to it bigtime.

[Elendil's Heir]

NPR interviewed a local Arizona political correspondent on Friday afternoon. He said most people were a bit nonplussed by her performance (her "deer in the headlights moment," as he described it), but that she was very, very popular for signing the illegal immigration crackdown bill, and would probably still win reelection.

[Cisco]

At one point I had gotten the impression that she was genuinely struggling about whether or not to sign it. I think her final decision wasn't based on a question about whether or not it was the right thing to do. I think the question was, "do I want to be elected governor?"

[gonzomax]

She has decided to forgo all future debates. Participating in this one gave her 1.7 million dollars in campaign funds. There is no more to get by more debates.
She has the right wing and the haters whipped up . That should insure her election. I thought there was more to governance than that. Live and learn.
She knows where the bodies are buried. Oops ,she doesn't after all.

[dalej42]

I also think she'll win. McCain has drawn only token opposition and there aren't any hot button ballot issues. SB1070 will be in the courts for a long time and the general election will be decided by paranoid seniors who live in fear of the Mexican drug cartel attacking the Sun City Shuffleboard league.

[gonzomax]

The crime rate is at very low levels, yet screaming wolf still works.
People who proudly proclaim ,"i don't vote for the party, i vote for the person", are going to have it easy. She is a joke of a candidate.

[Starving Artist]

She has the right wing and the haters whipped up . That should insure her election.So in the gonzo world, you either have to favor being the only country in the world that allows unfettered immigration from neighboring countries, or you're a "hater".

Is that how it works?

I used to think this kind of hooey was simply a tactic to get impressionable people whipped up against conservatives, but the more time I spend around here the more it becomes obvious you people really think this way.

Scary.

[Snowboarder Bo]

She has the right wing and the haters whipped up . That should insure her election.So in the gonzo world, you either have to favor being the only country in the world that allows unfettered immigration from neighboring countries, or you're a "hater".

Is that how it works?

I used to think this kind of hooey was simply a tactic to get impressionable people whipped up against conservatives, but the more time I spend around here the more it becomes obvious you people really think this way.

Scary.

Hang on. Lemme see if I can get you some help with that big brush your painting with.






Hmmm.


Nope; no one wants to help you paint with that.

[Starving Artist]

So in the gonzo world, you either have to favor being the only country in the world that allows unfettered immigration from neighboring countries, or you're a "hater".

Is that how it works?

I used to think this kind of hooey was simply a tactic to get impressionable people whipped up against conservatives, but the more time I spend around here the more it becomes obvious you people really think this way.

Scary.

Hang on. Lemme see if I can get you some help with that big brush your painting with.Can you offer an alternative explanation for the reason why anyone on the right who opposes illegal immigration is pretty much automatically referred to by lefties as a 'hater'? I've seen nothing coming from any liberal anywhere to indicate that they feel conservative opposition to illegal immigration is based upon anything but racial hatred and/or xenophobia.

[Cisco]

Can you offer an alternative explanation for the reason why anyone on the right who opposes illegal immigration is pretty much automatically referred to by lefties as a 'hater'? I've seen nothing coming from any liberal anywhere to indicate that they feel conservative opposition to illegal immigration is based upon anything but racial hatred and/or xenophobia.
Well, look at how the issue is handled by politicians and pundits on the right. It's a political card to pull when the time comes around every so often (see John McCain's record on immigration over the last decade if you don't believe this.) Things like SB1070 don't make your case very well when:

-They're influenced or flat-out written by white supremacist groups
-They do [admittedly, by right-wingers] absolutely nothing to halt the flow of people or drugs over the border
-They [admittedly, by right-wingers] are basically legally toothless

That leaves precious little room for speculation on why it was inacted; one obvious* reason being to appease Mexican haters and "fedrul guhmint" haters (of whom I've yet to meet one who didn't have, at bare minimum, xenophobic leanings.)


*(to me, and I'm in a privileged position being that I live in the capital of AZ)

[gonzomax]

Immigration is a snap to fix, but it will not happen. You can stop them from getting employment. That would require cracking down on corporations and businesses that hire them. Do you believe they don't know what they are doing? When a guy applies for a job and barely speaks English and has questionable paper work, you send him away. But they find exploiting them for low wages makes money. Fine them big time and it would clear up.
I am not for unfettered immigration. Never said I was. But it is an employment migration going on as people follow the jobs. Our economy is so bad now, that the problem is drying up anyway.

[dalej42]

absolutely nothing to halt the flow of people or drugs over the border
-They [admittedly, by right-wingers] are basically legally toothless

That leaves precious little room for speculation on why it was inacted; one obvious* reason being to appease Mexican haters and "fedrul guhmint" haters (of whom I've yet to meet one who didn't have, at bare minimum, xenophobic leanings.)


*(to me, and I'm in a privileged position being that I live in the capital of AZ)

Not to forget Arizona already banned same sex marriage in 2008 so that horse is dead.

[Cyberhwk]

Still, Brewer has been leading Goddard soundly. (http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Arizona_gubernatorial_election,_2010) Are any post-debate polls available yet?
Probably not what you were looking for, but I checked InTrade after I saw her bomb. She was still >90% to win IIRC.

[BrainGlutton]

Hang on. Lemme see if I can get you some help with that big brush your painting with.Can you offer an alternative explanation for the reason why anyone on the right who opposes illegal immigration is pretty much automatically referred to by lefties as a 'hater'? I've seen nothing coming from any liberal anywhere to indicate that they feel conservative opposition to illegal immigration is based upon anything but racial hatred and/or xenophobia.

Because we've seen nothing to indicate it is based on anything else. Certainly not the "rule of law" -- if the illegal-immigration pressure were coming from Canada instead of Mexico, the Minutemen would not exist. There certainly are some sound, non-xenophobic, purely economic or ecological reasons to restrict immigration to the U.S. -- but those obviously are secondary considerations, if considerations at all, to the anti-immigrant right.

[gonzomax]

Really SA ,who is pro illegal immigration? You are making shit up again. But with a bad employment picture in the US, we need all the jobs we can get. We can not give them to illegals.
But who benefits from illegal immigration. It is not the American worker or the average American citizen. Only one group reaps benefits from illegal immigration. That is where you should direct your anger and frustration. That group of course is employers who exploit them for lower wages. American workers get a downward pressure on wages. that certainly does not benefit them. It is one powerful ,politically connected group that wants it and that is why we have it.

[BrainGlutton]

Really SA ,who is pro illegal immigration? You are making shit up again. But with a bad employment picture in the US, we need all the jobs we can get. We can not give them to illegals.
But who benefits from illegal immigration. It is not the American worker or the average American citizen. Only one group reaps benefits from illegal immigration. That is where you should direct your anger and frustration. That group of course is employers who exploit them for lower wages. American workers get a downward pressure on wages. that certainly does not benefit them. It is one powerful ,politically connected group that wants it and that is why we have it.

As Bush found out, when he tried his hand at immigration reform in his second term: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush%27s_second_term_as_President_of_the_United_States#Immigration) His electoral base thought his plan was too weak, but his real financial/power base thought it was too strong. It split the party and died.

[gonzomax]

Really SA ,who is pro illegal immigration? You are making shit up again. But with a bad employment picture in the US, we need all the jobs we can get. We can not give them to illegals.
But who benefits from illegal immigration. It is not the American worker or the average American citizen. Only one group reaps benefits from illegal immigration. That is where you should direct your anger and frustration. That group of course is employers who exploit them for lower wages. American workers get a downward pressure on wages. that certainly does not benefit them. It is one powerful ,politically connected group that wants it and that is why we have it.

As Bush found out, when he tried his hand at immigration reform in his second term: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush%27s_second_term_as_President_of_the_United_States#Immigration) His electoral base thought his plan was too weak, but his real financial/power base thought it was too strong. It split the party and died.

That split is the employers who benefit from open borders and people who vote republican thinking the party has their back. The party relies on people voting against their economic interests in the name of abortion, gun control, immigration or other causes the party has no intention of dealing with.

[BrainGlutton]

As Bush found out, when he tried his hand at immigration reform in his second term: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush%27s_second_term_as_President_of_the_United_States#Immigration) His electoral base thought his plan was too weak, but his real financial/power base thought it was too strong. It split the party and died.

That split is the employers who benefit from open borders and people who vote republican thinking the party has their back. The party relies on people voting against their economic interests in the name of abortion, gun control, immigration or other causes the party has no intention of dealing with.

Well, that must be why Brewer is polling so well in AZ -- because she signed legislation that purports to try to do something about immigration. (If it actually did something about immigration, things would be a lot more complicated for her.)

[gonzomax]

She is screaming about a crime wave caused by illegals. The crime is at a 50 year low. She is crying about a murder rate caused by illegals. it does not exist. She is stirring up the anti immigrant hatred with dishonest figures because it works. She claims to be anti big government. Why ?,Because it works. Who has a clue what she really believes in. Originally she was against the stop immigrants bill until polling proved it was a winner. She has more ambition than brains. If she has ant ethics they are well hidden.

[sleestak]

Well, look at how the issue is handled by politicians and pundits on the right. It's a political card to pull when the time comes around every so often (see John McCain's record on immigration over the last decade if you don't believe this.) Things like SB1070 don't make your case very well when:

-They're influenced or flat-out written by white supremacist groups
-They do [admittedly, by right-wingers] absolutely nothing to halt the flow of people or drugs over the border
-They [admittedly, by right-wingers] are basically legally toothless

That leaves precious little room for speculation on why it was inacted; one obvious* reason being to appease Mexican haters and "fedrul guhmint" haters (of whom I've yet to meet one who didn't have, at bare minimum, xenophobic leanings.)



Post snipped.

I assume you have cites for those claims, right?

If so, I'd really like to see them.

Slee

[Cisco]

Post snipped.

I assume you have cites for those claims, right?

If so, I'd really like to see them.

Slee
Can you be more specific? Most of what I said is common knowledge, which is why - I assume - Starving Artist sent the cricket brigade in to reply for him.

[gonzomax]

Well, look at how the issue is handled by politicians and pundits on the right. It's a political card to pull when the time comes around every so often (see John McCain's record on immigration over the last decade if you don't believe this.) Things like SB1070 don't make your case very well when:

-They're influenced or flat-out written by white supremacist groups
-They do [admittedly, by right-wingers] absolutely nothing to halt the flow of people or drugs over the border
-They [admittedly, by right-wingers] are basically legally toothless

That leaves precious little room for speculation on why it was inacted; one obvious* reason being to appease Mexican haters and "fedrul guhmint" haters (of whom I've yet to meet one who didn't have, at bare minimum, xenophobic leanings.)



Post snipped.

I assume you have cites for those claims, right?

If so, I'd really like to see them.

Slee

The repub program was directed by the neo-cons who took over the party. Read this manifesto by Kristol and the people who took over the repub .party
http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm
They were never for a smaller government but for a small group of chosen people to run it and profit from it.

[Starving Artist]

Most of what I said is common knowledge, which is why - I assume - Starving Artist sent the cricket brigade in to reply for him.No, crickets chipred because: a.) I have a life and I've spent much of the day away; and b.) your post had nothing to do with the comment it was alleged to address. I have not heard a single liberal anywhere in the country express any sort of determination to halt illegal immigration, but I have heard all sorts of claims by liberals that determination to halt illegal immigration is based only upon racism, hatred and/or xenophobia. It seems liberals don't even like the term 'illegal immigrants', preferring the term "undocumented immigrants' instead.

And to counter this you offer one bill from one state and, after claiming it was drafted by a group similar to a modern version of the KKK, attempt to use that to claim you've proven me wrong.

So, all in all, I just didn't see anything in your post worth responding to...and I was busy besides.

[Elendil's Heir]

...If she has ant ethics they are well hidden.

True, but I'm not even sure that she has people ethics.

[pohjonen]

...If she has ant ethics they are well hidden.

True, but I'm not even sure that she has people ethics.

Maybe she wants to be the first insect politician. (Sorry, Brundlefly.)

[lisacurl]

I think I can with some authority as the son of mother who was the same social class and general education level as the Governor and who was a chronic alcoholic.

The Governor is 66 years old and (per the video) IMO is suffering from memory lapses which could be due to mini-strokes, incipient dementia or simply age. A drunk has impaired motor skills which slightly, but noticeably, slurs their words. There was none of that. In between the epic brain farts her overall enunciation and speaking skills were not impaired in the least.

There's a physical issue of some sort, but it's not alcohol.Exactly. My first impression was that she was suffering some very early and minor signs of age dementia, not that she was in any way chemically impaired.

[Llama Llogophile]

I'm a liberal sample size of one, but I'll pitch in for you here.

I have not heard a single liberal anywhere in the country express any sort of determination to halt illegal immigration

I'd be more determined to support halting illegal immigration if I were shown evidence that it were at all possible. It's a big border, and I've seen little to convince me that securing it in a meaningful way isn't a pipe dream. I suppose we could stem the tide to some extent, but at what cost and for how much benefit?

As was pointed out earlier, one feasible method might be to address it from an employment point of view. But there seem to be blocs against this, and it could even hurt the economy.

but I have heard all sorts of claims by liberals that determination to halt illegal immigration is based only upon racism, hatred and/or xenophobia.

It often is. Not always, but certainly often. And it's sometimes so thinly veiled as to be laughable. I've had conversations with folks who are passionate on the subject, and it made my hair stand on end. One guy I know claims it's nothing personal, but ardently advocates the death penalty for attempting to cross the border illegally. On the spot, that is, not after any kind of due process. Convince me that this is simply because someone is engaged in an illegal activity. He doesn't feel this way about other crimes.

Again, sample size of one. So make of that what you will. But a great deal of the illegal immigration discussion sounds to me like us vs. them because they are THEM.


It seems liberals don't even like the term 'illegal immigrants', preferring the term "undocumented immigrants' instead.

Maybe some do. Doesn't annoy me, particularly. Although use of the term "illegals" bothers me because it is dehumanizing in my opinion.

[Claverhouse]

What a silly claim.
Nonsense. Any person who claims to be politically aware and who lives in the capital of their state has the best opportunity to follow and be aware of their state's politics, and has no excuse to plead ignorance.


What does that say regarding the now-vindicated, but still not entirely reliable, Mr. Blagojevich being elected twice ?

[ElvisL1ves]

Um, okay, ow do you get "vindicated" out of a guilty verdict and every other count being voted 11-1 guilty, with a retrial coming, and with the defense counsel having already quit the case in disgust?

And how do you get non-ignorance on the part of the public from the fact that none of this was public information before either election, and he got run out of office as soon as it did?

That made no sense whatsoever.

[Cisco]

your post had nothing to do with the comment it was alleged to address.You kidding? My post was a very direct response to what you said.

I have not heard a single liberal anywhere in the country express any sort of determination to halt illegal immigrationThen you aren't listening. That's not our fault. Maybe you shouldn't stick your fingers in your ears when liberals talk.

And to counter this you offer one bill from one state and, after claiming it was drafted by a group similar to a modern version of the KKK, attempt to use that to claim you've proven me wrong.

"One bill from one state"? You some kind of comedian? Do I need to remind you how this whole sidetrack got started? Do I need to remind you to look at the topic of the thread? Do I need to remind you that this "one bill from one state" has been a huge national issue for months? Calling SB1070 "one bill from one state" is like calling this (http://user.mc.net/hawk/doracol.jpg) "just some gun." Calling it that in thread about Jan Brewer, in a response about her immigration policy, is Gold Medal-level disingenuousness. And then to tell me my post "wasn't worth responding to" . . . if you're not too "busy" to come back, bring some substance and probity next time.

[Peanut Gallery]

I have not heard a single liberal anywhere in the country express any sort of determination to halt illegal immigration...

Don't look now.... (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2010/0812/Obama-as-border-cop-He-s-deported-record-numbers-of-illegal-immigrants)

[Chicagojeff]

What a silly claim.
Nonsense. Any person who claims to be politically aware and who lives in the capital of their state has the best opportunity to follow and be aware of their state's politics, and has no excuse to plead ignorance.



So following your logic a great many citizens in SC should have known that the Guv'na was meeting up with a trollop in Argentina and not actually hiking? HUH? Even the local media was dumbfounded when he pull that. If a random reporter hadn't seen the guy in Hartsfield and mentioned it.. as far as we know he'd be battling for the GOP nomination.
I wouldn't conclude that political information flows evenly in all 50 states.. in Illinois we heard little to nothing about the governor because I was in Chicago and almost no one lives in Springpatch.

[sleestak]

Post snipped.

I assume you have cites for those claims, right?

If so, I'd really like to see them.

Slee
Can you be more specific? Most of what I said is common knowledge, which is why - I assume - Starving Artist sent the cricket brigade in to reply for him.

So it is common knowledge that SB1070 was 'influenced or flat-out written by white supremacist groups'? You need a cite there buddy. Your alligation, your responsiblity to back it up.

For what it is worth, I am all for as much immigration as possible, as long as it is done legally. Get rid of quotas. And I am for making the legal process as simple and quick as possible while still being secure.

Slee

[gonzomax]

One of the important sponsors of SB1070 was Russell Pierce. Pierce forwarded emails during the campaign from National Alliance ,a white separatist group. He also was a backer of J.T. Ready for political office.Ready has neo nazi affiliations. Pierce has also been backed by Federation of American Immigration Reform ,which has been identified as a "hate group' by the SPLC.
So it is not a long stretch to connect hate groups with the Immigration Bill.

[Mozart1220]

Maybe she needs a wire in here ear like Bush had in the 2000 debates.

[Mozart1220]

Most of what I said is common knowledge, which is why - I assume - Starving Artist sent the cricket brigade in to reply for him.No, crickets chipred because: a.) I have a life and I've spent much of the day away; and b.) your post had nothing to do with the comment it was alleged to address. I have not heard a single liberal anywhere in the country express any sort of determination to halt illegal immigration, but I have heard all sorts of claims by liberals that determination to halt illegal immigration is based only upon racism, hatred and/or xenophobia. It seems liberals don't even like the term 'illegal immigrants', preferring the term "undocumented immigrants' instead.

And to counter this you offer one bill from one state and, after claiming it was drafted by a group similar to a modern version of the KKK, attempt to use that to claim you've proven me wrong.

So, all in all, I just didn't see anything in your post worth responding to...and I was busy besides.

When conservatives stop hiring them as cheap labor, they will stop coming.