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supergoose
09-06-2010, 01:47 PM
I'm somewhat confused about this. I live in Maryland but am hoping that if no one knows the specifics regarding the laws in Maryland, the laws across the United States are similar.

I understand that if a pedestrian is actually crossing the street in a crosswalk (or anywhere else, for that matter) I have to stop for them (duh). But what about a pedestrian waiting at a crosswalk to cross? Do I ever have to stop for them/yield right-of-way (in the absence of a crossing guard/cop), or is it only if they have started to cross?

I suppose at heart, my question is: does the sidewalk count as part of the crosswalk or is the crosswalk only the actual in-road portion?

I googled this and read something about it being the case somewhere in the US (I think) that you need to stop if the pedestrian shows intent to cross. What on Earth does that mean? Doesn't waiting at the crosswalk show intent? Does this ever apply in Maryland?

Yes, I've consulted the driver's handbook for Maryland. It doesn't really answer my question.

Oh, one other thing: the driver's handbook says to yield to pedestrians when turning on a green light. Is that just the normal yield to pedestrians, whatever that turns out to be, or does that include pedestrians stopped at the crosswalk preparing to cross?

(This is for taking a driver's license on-road test, by the way, so I have to get it exactly right, just in case the situation arises.)

Thank you very much. I'm very nervous.

Dennis3240
09-06-2010, 02:30 PM
Good luck on your test I'm sure you'll do wonderfully. My understanding is in most states if a pedestrian is standing at a marked crosswalk that in and of itself shows intent to cross. You legally are required to stop and allow them to walk across. This is rarely if ever enforced but legally pedestrians always have the right of way at a marked crosswalk.

OldGuy
09-06-2010, 02:59 PM
Good luck on your test I'm sure you'll do wonderfully. My understanding is in most states if a pedestrian is standing at a marked crosswalk that in and of itself shows intent to cross. You legally are required to stop and allow them to walk across. This is rarely if ever enforced but legally pedestrians always have the right of way at a marked crosswalk.

Well, except if they have a "don't walk" light on as many intersections now do -- all traffic stops, and all pedestrians cross every which way.

justrob
09-06-2010, 03:03 PM
...but legally pedestrians always have the right of way at a marked crosswalk.

Sorry, pet peeve of mine. This is close but not quite true, not everywhere anyway. Here, in Wisconsin, the pedestrian has the right of way in a marked crosswalk unless there is a control signal indicating don't walk. So if you are in a crosswalk and the Don't Walk signal is on you do NOT have the right of way.

Other than that I think you're right.

Of course there's alway the idea that you may have the right of way but they have a vehicle that weighs several thousand pounds so it is also in your best interest to use that right of way intelligently.

Mr Downtown
09-06-2010, 03:34 PM
In most states, drivers must yield to pedestrians in their half of the roadway. That would imply off the curb.

You can find your state's vehicle code at this National Motorists Association website. (http://blog.motorists.org/vehicle-code-by-state/) Here is the relevant passage from the Maryland transportation code:

§ 21-502. Pedestrians' right-of-way in crosswalks.

(a) In general.-
(1) This subsection does not apply where:
(i) A pedestrian tunnel or overhead pedestrian crossing is provided, as described in § 21-503 (b) of this subtitle; or
(ii) A traffic control signal is in operation.
(2) The driver of a vehicle shall come to a stop when a pedestrian crossing the roadway in a crosswalk is:
(i) On the half of the roadway on which the vehicle is traveling; or
(ii) Approaching from an adjacent lane on the other half of the roadway.
(b) Duty of pedestrian.- A pedestrian may not suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to yield.
(c) Passing of vehicle stopped for pedestrian prohibited.- If, at a marked crosswalk or at an unmarked crosswalk at an intersection, a vehicle is stopped to let a pedestrian cross the roadway, the driver of any other vehicle approaching from the rear may not overtake and pass the stopped vehicle.

justrob, I hope you understand that a flashing "DON'T WALK" is not a prohibition on walking. It means "don't start to cross."

RealityChuck
09-06-2010, 04:04 PM
If there's a mid-block crosswalk that's marked by the stripes, many states require cars to stop if there's a pedestrian looking to cross. In New York, then include a sign in the center of the road making that clear; the signs are less common in New England (though the law is the same) because they've had that rule for decades.

Where there is a light, the pedestrian is to cross only when the light is in his favor. This included "Walk/Don't Walk" signs, but also applies to any intersection: the pedestrian crosses walking parallel to the traffic that has the green light.

TriPolar
09-06-2010, 05:25 PM
If there's a mid-block crosswalk that's marked by the stripes, many states require cars to stop if there's a pedestrian looking to cross. In New York, then include a sign in the center of the road making that clear; the signs are less common in New England (though the law is the same) because they've had that rule for decades.


I've never seen the rule stated explicitly (and I hate city driving and avoid it), but it doesn't seem to hold up in practise, or make a lot of sense. In Boston at some crosswalks there seem to always be people waiting to cross and traffic could be held up for hours. Most of the crosswalks seem to be at corners with some sort of signal, so those are accounted for, but I've seen a few busy mid-block cross walks. Maybe I didn't notice the signals just for pedestrians. Now I'll keep a closer eye on them. As an aside I'll mention that I always try to stop for pedestrians, it's just easier than getting a ticket, getting sued, or getting sent to jail for vehicular homicide.

needscoffee
09-06-2010, 07:21 PM
In my city, ALL intersections are regarded as crosswalks, whether marked as crosswalks or not. Standing at the curb, not in the crosswalk, is considered intent to cross, and we get ticketed for not stopping for them. And they get jaywalking tickets for crossing mid-block or against a stoplight, even when there's no cross-traffic. It's like being in Switzerland or something.

CookingWithGas
09-06-2010, 08:12 PM
In my city, ALL intersections are regarded as crosswalks, whether marked as crosswalks or not. Standing at the curb, not in the crosswalk, is considered intent to cross, and we get ticketed for not stopping for them. And they get jaywalking tickets for crossing mid-block or against a stoplight, even when there's no cross-traffic. It's like being in Switzerland or something.And what city is that?

IAmNotSpartacus
09-06-2010, 10:01 PM
In my city, ALL intersections are regarded as crosswalks, whether marked as crosswalks or not. Standing at the curb, not in the crosswalk, is considered intent to cross, and we get ticketed for not stopping for them. And they get jaywalking tickets for crossing mid-block or against a stoplight, even when there's no cross-traffic. It's like being in Switzerland or something.And what city is that?

Could be any one in the state of California. Ink is cheaper than paint.

sheridives
09-06-2010, 10:29 PM
I have friends in the Cayman Islands and there if someone shows intent you stop - its weird, if a guy at a crosswalk lifts his foot off the ground Im supposed to stop. How am I supposed to notice that? Ill have to go 10 mph just so I can look at everyones feet!

In Houston, we dont care. If your in the crosswalk you should run. Theyre crazy here!

GusNSpot
09-07-2010, 12:29 AM
Wall*Mart has trained people to just step out in front of cars any old place and now they are doing it on highways with 55MPH speeds.
They are dying.

If it is not an intersection or a marked crossing, do not dare the cars ever. If it is a legal crossing, just remember, there is right & dead right.

elfkin477
09-08-2010, 01:20 AM
If there's a mid-block crosswalk that's marked by the stripes, many states require cars to stop if there's a pedestrian looking to cross. In New York, then include a sign in the center of the road making that clear; the signs are less common in New England (though the law is the same) because they've had that rule for decades.


I've never seen the rule stated explicitly (and I hate city driving and avoid it), but it doesn't seem to hold up in practise, or make a lot of sense. In Boston at some crosswalks there seem to always be people waiting to cross and traffic could be held up for hours. Most of the crosswalks seem to be at corners with some sort of signal, so those are accounted for, but I've seen a few busy mid-block cross walks. Maybe I didn't notice the signals just for pedestrians. Now I'll keep a closer eye on them. As an aside I'll mention that I always try to stop for pedestrians, it's just easier than getting a ticket, getting sued, or getting sent to jail for vehicular homicide.
In Boston virtually all crosswalks have walk/don't walk lights.

And in driver's ed we were told you have to stop if the pedestrian has stepped foot on the crosswalk, not just because they're standing near one. I wonder if I can find a copy of the law in this state...

RSA 265:35 Pedestrian’s Right of Way in Crosswalks

I. When traffic control signals are not in place or not in operation the driver of a vehicle shall yield the right of way, slowing down or stopping if need be to so yield, to a pedestrian crossing the roadway within a crosswalk when the pedestrian is upon the half of the roadway upon which the vehicle is traveling, or when the pedestrian is approaching so closely from the opposite half of the roadway as to be in danger.

II. No pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle which is so close as to constitute an immediate hazard. So it looks like we told the right thing in driver's ed.

Hari Seldon
09-08-2010, 03:46 PM
If you are in Montreal, don't, repeat don't, attempt to cross at a marked crosswalk (or anywhere else, for that matter) if cars are coming. If you do, be sure your will is up to date. On the other hand, if the cars have a stop sign, then not only do you have the right of way, but nearly all drivers, even taxis, seem to be very courteous about respecting it, even if you are just approaching the intersection. Go figure.

Does anyone know if this is true: A friend crossing a street in London was honked and cursed at by a turning car and the driver informed him that the turning car had the right of way over any pedestrian. Was this ever the case? I find it hard to believe, but he got one explanation that it was a class thing. Only lower classes were on foot while upper classes were on horseback or in a carriage.

Swallowed My Cellphone
09-08-2010, 04:03 PM
If you are in Montreal, don't, repeat don't, attempt to cross at a marked crosswalk (or anywhere else, for that matter) if cars are coming. If you do, be sure your will is up to date.I think you meant to say "Toronto".

There is a crosswalk by my house. The kind where you push the button, then lights flash, and you're supposed to point to the opposite side of the street to signal your intention to cross. I don't let my mom use it. Cars might stop 10% of the time. Or else, the car in the lane nearest the curb will stop, and then the impatient bastard behind him will pull out and swerve around him in the passing lane, almost clipping the pedestrian.

Luckily my mom has witnessed several close shaves and has not trouble following my advice to walk ten minutes to the nearest controlled intersection. Inconvenient, but less likely to result in death.

supergoose
09-08-2010, 08:20 PM
Thank you, everyone. No offense, but I'm still not clear. I guess I'll just have to ask a cop someday.

(I passed, by the way! Didn't encounter any pedestrians, thank God.)

Chronos
09-08-2010, 09:13 PM
Meanwhile, in Montana, not only is it the law that any pedestrian who might plausibly cross has the right of way, but the drivers actually follow it. I've had cars stop and wait for me when I was just coming down the side street, and where they could have been long past the intersection before I reached it if they hadn't stopped. It does make things a little difficult when I visit family back east, since I always have to remind myself that drivers there don't behave that way.

TriPolar
09-08-2010, 09:37 PM
In Boston virtually all crosswalks have walk/don't walk lights.

And in driver's ed we were told you have to stop if the pedestrian has stepped foot on the crosswalk, not just because they're standing near one. I wonder if I can find a copy of the law in this state...

RSA 265:35 Pedestrian’s Right of Way in Crosswalks

I. When traffic control signals are not in place or not in operation the driver of a vehicle shall yield the right of way, slowing down or stopping if need be to so yield, to a pedestrian crossing the roadway within a crosswalk when the pedestrian is upon the half of the roadway upon which the vehicle is traveling, or when the pedestrian is approaching so closely from the opposite half of the roadway as to be in danger.

II. No pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle which is so close as to constitute an immediate hazard. So it looks like we told the right thing in driver's ed.

That makes a lot more sense. I tend to stop when I see people approaching a crosswalk because I can't be sure they see me. I'm almost sure there is one intersection midblock where nobody stops for the pedestrians waiting, often if they have stepped out into the street, but maybe the 'half of the roadway' part explains that. I'll check closely for signals next time I go by there too. But if the pedestrian signals don't correspond to a traffic signal, I'm not sure what difference it would make. It might lead to a group of people suddenly marching out into the street when a walk sign comes on, and the cars don't have any idea it's about to happen.

amarone
09-08-2010, 09:45 PM
Does anyone know if this is true: A friend crossing a street in London was honked and cursed at by a turning car and the driver informed him that the turning car had the right of way over any pedestrian. Was this ever the case? I find it hard to believe, but he got one explanation that it was a class thing. Only lower classes were on foot while upper classes were on horseback or in a carriage.
I have no idea about the class thing, but it is certainly true that in London you do not have the US-style yield to pedestrians when turning right on green (even though it would be turning left in London). In the UK, you do not get both cars and pedestrians having lights giving them the go ahead. If a driver has a green light, all pedestrian lights are on "don't walk", and vice versa.

jasg
09-08-2010, 10:14 PM
This is rarely if ever enforced but legally pedestrians always have the right of way at a marked crosswalk.I used to cross a busy street to get to work. White lines but no lights. Every couple of months a motorcycle officer would sit there and catch people during the morning commute.

Once he ticketed a bicyclist who didn't stop - that was one unhappy cyclist.

Darth Panda
09-08-2010, 10:28 PM
North Carolina: bolding is mine in all, just to highlight some particularly relevant or interesting stufff

with controls:

Whenever special pedestrian‑control signals are in place, such signals shall indicate as follows:

(1) WALK. – Pedestrians facing such signal may proceed across the highway in the direction of the signal and shall be given the right‑of‑way by the drivers of all vehicles.

(2) DON'T WALK. – No pedestrian shall start to cross the highway in the direction of such signal, but any pedestrian who has partially completed his crossing on the "WALK" signal shall proceed to a sidewalk or safety island while the "DON'T WALK" signal is showing.

(c) Where a system of traffic‑control signals or devices does not include special pedestrian‑control signals, pedestrians shall be subject to the vehicular traffic‑control signals or devices as they apply to pedestrian traffic.


without controls:

§ 20‑173. Pedestrians' right‑of‑way at crosswalks.

(a) Where traffic‑control signals are not in place or in operation the driver of a vehicle shall yield the right‑of‑way, slowing down or stopping if need be to so yield, to a pedestrian crossing the roadway within any marked crosswalk or within any unmarked crosswalk at or near an intersection, except as otherwise provided in Part 11 of this Article.

(c) The driver of a vehicle emerging from or entering an alley, building entrance, private road, or driveway shall yield the right‑of‑way to any pedestrian, or person riding a bicycle, approaching on any sidewalk or walkway extending across such alley, building entrance, road, or driveway. (1937, c. 407, s. 134; 1973, c. 1330, s. 32.)



20-174 lists a bunch of things pedestrians shouldn't do, but then states:

§ 20‑174. Crossing at other than crosswalks; walking along highway.

(e) Notwithstanding the provisions of this section, every driver of a vehicle shall exercise due care to avoid colliding with any pedestrian upon any roadway, and shall give warning by sounding the horn when necessary, and shall exercise proper precaution upon observing any child or any confused or incapacitated person upon a roadway. (1937, c. 407, s. 135; 1973, c. 1330, s. 33.)


This part regards turning right on red:

Any vehicle that turns right under this subdivision shall yield the right‑of‑way to:

1. Other traffic and pedestrians using the intersection; and

2. Pedestrians who are moving towards the intersection, who are in reasonably close proximity to the intersection, and who are preparing to cross in front of the traffic that is required to stop at the red light.



General right of way:

(c) The driver of any vehicle upon a highway within a business or residence district shall yield the right‑of‑way to a pedestrian crossing such highway within any clearly marked crosswalk, or any regular pedestrian crossing included in the prolongation of the lateral boundary lines of the adjacent sidewalk at the end of a block, except at intersections where the movement of traffic is being regulated by traffic officers or traffic direction devices.

Triskadecamus
09-08-2010, 10:54 PM
Of course, even if he doesn't have the right of way, you aren't allowed to hit him.

Tris

Hari Seldon
09-09-2010, 08:12 AM
This is rarely if ever enforced but legally pedestrians always have the right of way at a marked crosswalk.I used to cross a busy street to get to work. White lines but no lights. Every couple of months a motorcycle officer would sit there and catch people during the morning commute.

Once he ticketed a bicyclist who didn't stop - that was one unhappy cyclist.

This reminds me of the time I was crossing a complicated five or six way intersection in Boston. I couldn't name it, but it was shortly after crossing the Charles from Charlestown to downtown. I patiently waited (a couple minutes) for a pedestrian light and immediately started to cross---and was nearly totaled by a girl on a bicycle. She stopped and started cursing me (very large vocabulary too). I sure wish there had been a cop to ticket her.

justrob
09-09-2010, 08:45 AM
justrob, I hope you understand that a flashing "DON'T WALK" is not a prohibition on walking. It means "don't start to cross."

Absolutely. My pet peeve is this statement...


I understand that if a pedestrian is actually crossing the street in a crosswalk (or anywhere else, for that matter) I have to stop for them (duh).

... and...

My understanding is in most states if a pedestrian is standing at a marked crosswalk that in and of itself shows intent to cross. You legally are required to stop and allow them to walk across.

... which are NOT true if the crossing signal are indicating Don't Walk (in a non-flashing mode;)). Pedestrians also do not have the right of way if they are crossing in a non-crosswalk area (jaywalking), at least in Wisconsin.



346.23: Crossing controlled intersection or crosswalk.
(1) At an intersection or crosswalk where traffic is controlled by traffic control signals or by a traffic officer, the
operator of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian, or to a person who is riding a bicycle or electric
personal assistive mobility device in a manner which is consistent with the safe use of the crosswalk by pedestrians,
who has started to cross the highway on a green or "Walk" signal and in all other cases pedestrians, bicyclists, and
riders of electric personal assistive mobility devices shall yield the right-of-way to vehicles lawfully proceeding
directly ahead on a green signal. No operator of a vehicle proceeding ahead on a green signal may begin a turn at a
controlled intersection or crosswalk when a pedestrian, bicyclist, or rider of an electric personal assistive mobility
device crossing in the crosswalk on a green or "Walk" signal would be endangered or interfered with in any way. The
rules stated in this subsection are modified at intersections or crosswalks on divided highways or highways provided
with safety zones in the manner and to the extent stated in sub. (2).
(2) At intersections or crosswalks on divided highways or highways provided with safety zones where traffic is
controlled by traffic control signals or by a traffic officer, the operator of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to a
pedestrian, bicyclist, or rider of an electric personal assistive mobility device who has started to cross the roadway
either from the near curb or shoulder or from the center dividing strip or a safety zone with the green or "Walk" signal
in the favor of the pedestrian, bicyclist, or rider of an electric personal assistive mobility device.

346.24: Crossing at uncontrolled intersection or crosswalk.
(1) At an intersection or crosswalk where traffic is not controlled by traffic control signals or by a traffic officer, the
operator of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian, or to a person riding a bicycle or electric personal
assistive mobility device in a manner which is consistent with the safe use of the crosswalk by pedestrians, who is
crossing the highway within a marked or unmarked crosswalk.
(2) No pedestrian, bicyclist, or rider of an electric personal assistive mobility device shall suddenly leave a curb or
other place of safety and walk, run, or ride into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is difficult for the
operator of the vehicle to yield.
(3) Whenever any vehicle is stopped at an intersection or crosswalk to permit a pedestrian, bicyclist, or rider of an
electric personal assistive mobility device to cross the roadway, the operator of any other vehicle approaching from
the rear shall not overtake and pass the stopped vehicle.

346.25: Crossing at place other than crosswalk
Every pedestrian, bicyclist, or rider of an electric personal assistive mobility device crossing a roadway at any point
other than within a marked or unmarked crosswalk shall yield the right-of-way to all vehicles upon the roadway.

justrob
09-09-2010, 08:50 AM
But if the pedestrian signals don't correspond to a traffic signal, I'm not sure what difference it would make. It might lead to a group of people suddenly marching out into the street when a walk sign comes on, and the cars don't have any idea it's about to happen.

If the pedestrian signals don't match up with the traffic signal you should contact someone as that would be a fairly dangerous situation. In my, oh 25 years of driving, I have never seen that happen.

justrob
09-09-2010, 08:57 AM
Of course, even if he doesn't have the right of way, you aren't allowed to hit him.

True, and I would always do my best to not hit them but if the unfortunate should happen and I did hit a pedestrian the right of way rules are used to determine who's at fault.

If I am following the rules of the road and a pedestrian darts out in the middle of the block from behind something that prevents me from seeing them and stopping in time it is the pedesrians fault. Not magically mine.

BrotherCadfael
09-09-2010, 08:59 AM
Wall*Mart has trained people to just step out in front of cars any old place and now they are doing it on highways with 55MPH speeds.
They are dying.

If it is not an intersection or a marked crossing, do not dare the cars ever. If it is a legal crossing, just remember, there is right & dead right.What on earth does Wal-Mart have to do with this topic??

Giles
09-09-2010, 09:03 AM
If I am following the rules of the road and a pedestrian darts out in the middle of the block from behind something that prevents me from seeing them and stopping in time it is the pedesrians fault. Not magically mine.
If that "something" is another vehicle that has stopped at a pedestrian crossing, then you are in the wrong. So your statement is not completely true.

Giles
09-09-2010, 09:05 AM
What on earth does Wal-Mart have to do with this topic??
Presumably with their insidious practice of putting marked pedestrian crossings in their parking lots.

justrob
09-09-2010, 10:02 AM
If that "something" is another vehicle that has stopped at a pedestrian crossing, then you are in the wrong. So your statement is not completely true.

True, and I should have put "in the middle of the block where there is not a pedestrian crossing." so allow me to restate.

If I am following the rules of the road and a pedestrian darts out in the middle of the block, where there is no pedestrian crossing, from behind something that prevents me from seeing them and stopping in time it is the pedesrians fault. Not magically mine.

Better?

Giles
09-09-2010, 10:07 AM
Better?
Much better :)

kayaker
09-09-2010, 10:16 AM
A small town I drive through daily recently placed a mid block crosswalk. A local ne'er-do-well has been hanging out on the sidewalk where the crosswalk is located. I've never seen him cross, but he gives drivers fits.

TriPolar
09-09-2010, 10:23 AM
If that "something" is another vehicle that has stopped at a pedestrian crossing, then you are in the wrong. So your statement is not completely true.

True, and I should have put "in the middle of the block where there is not a pedestrian crossing." so allow me to restate.

If I am following the rules of the road and a pedestrian darts out in the middle of the block, where there is no pedestrian crossing, from behind something that prevents me from seeing them and stopping in time it is the pedesrians fault. Not magically mine.

Better?

That would be up to a judge, jury, or insurance company to decide.

jasonh300
09-09-2010, 10:28 PM
What on earth does Wal-Mart have to do with this topic??
Presumably with their insidious practice of putting marked pedestrian crossings in their parking lots.

Note that "crossings" is not "crosswalks". Here, it's a striped area that covers 2/3 of the length of the store's frontage along with signs that indicate that motorists must yield to pedestrians in the crossing area. As a result, people come moping out of the store at 1/2 of a snail's pace with overloaded grocery carts and don't even bother to look to see if anything's coming because the cars have to stop anyway.

justrob
09-10-2010, 09:12 AM
That would be up to a judge, jury, or insurance company to decide.

Ok, let's see if I can make everyone happy with this one. (I doubt it but I'll try.)

If I am following the rules of the road and a pedestrian darts out in the middle of the block, where there is no pedestrian crossing, from behind something that prevents me from seeing them and stopping in time it is not automatically my fault.

TriPolar
09-10-2010, 11:06 AM
That would be up to a judge, jury, or insurance company to decide.

Ok, let's see if I can make everyone happy with this one. (I doubt it but I'll try.)

If I am following the rules of the road and a pedestrian darts out in the middle of the block, where there is no pedestrian crossing, from behind something that prevents me from seeing them and stopping in time it is not automatically my fault.

Well if you have an automatic transmission. If it's a standard, that would be a sticking point.;)

Mister Rik
09-10-2010, 04:37 PM
What on earth does Wal-Mart have to do with this topic??


Presumably with their insidious practice of putting marked pedestrian crossings in their parking lots.

Note that "crossings" is not "crosswalks". Here, it's a striped area that covers 2/3 of the length of the store's frontage along with signs that indicate that motorists must yield to pedestrians in the crossing area. As a result, people come moping out of the store at 1/2 of a snail's pace with overloaded grocery carts and don't even bother to look to see if anything's coming because the cars have to stop anyway.

Likewise at the local Safeway supermarkets. In those cases I think the markings are a good idea, but I agree that the practice has had an unfortunate carryover effect into other areas, like the place I work: my city's convention center. The convention center's parking lot is across a street. The problem with this is that event attendees — particularly those from out of town — don't seem to realize that this is a city street with a 25MPH speed limit they're crossing. It's not just part of the parking lot like they would see at Wal-Mart or Safeway. And so I constantly see people leaving the building, stepping off the curb, and walking straight across the street (or even better, strolling four-abreast down the middle of the street) without bothering to look for oncoming cars. I'm astonished that nobody has been hit yet.

The Hamster King
09-10-2010, 04:52 PM
Meanwhile, in Montana, not only is it the law that any pedestrian who might plausibly cross has the right of way, but the drivers actually follow it.They follow it in L.A. too. There are a lot of crosswalks on the west side and drivers are really good about stopping for people waiting on the sidewalk to cross.

Traffic is horrible in L.A., but in general drivers here are better than any place else I've lived. They stop for pedestrians, don't block intersections, alternate left and right at merges, yield right-of-way properly at 4-way stops, and generally know their shit. I chalk it up to two things -- you don't want to fuck with LAPD, and you don't want to do ANYTHING that will impede the orderly creep of traffic and bring the wrath of your fellow Angelenos down upon you.