I'm no longer a Jew.

[Cartooniverse]

This Is Not How Jews Behave (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hV-3mbsgikznLMNAy48FeFrXrmFAD9I6VNMG0).

This is not what Jews do. We do not throw human beings away because their very presence will dilute the purity of the Jewishness of Israel.

The video footage of the Israeli Parliment politician (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2010/09/14/hancocks.me.children.in.limbo.cnn?hpt=C2) waving his arms and decrying the kids' right to remain in the country where they were born is so eerily reminiscent of Leni Riefenstahl as to be, well, facist. The Jewishness of Israel ?? REALLY ???

Fuck you, you political fascist. Fuck you, you inhuman and inhumane bastard. You want to live in a state where you get to exclude anyone who is not just like you and yours? Cool- neonazis are everywhere in Europe and North America. Go, move your family, start a compound, raise a flag and be what you are.

I was born an ethnic Jew and that is inescapable. My last name is a Tribal name. As far as how I identify myself? No. I am no longer a Jew. Jews do not do this to other human beings.

That's what Nazis do.

:mad:

Cartooniverse

[Malthus]

Don't see how this is radically different from the debates ongoing in America, Canada and Europe over what to do about illegals.

Jews are no different from other people. Give them a country, and they behave like other people, with exactly the same concerns.

[Laudenum]

You just noticed now that Israel is a state that is founded on exclusion?

The whole point of Israel is that it is where 'the Jewry' live - if the majority is no longer Jewish, then it ceases to fulfill its purpose.

It is an ethnic state founded specifically for the purpose of providing a Jewish Homeland. What is the point of Israel if Jews become a minority within its borders?

[Shot From Guns]

I was born an ethnic Jew and that is inescapable. My last name is a Tribal name. As far as how I identify myself? No. I am no longer a Jew. Jews do not do this to other human beings.

From the article you quoted:

"What about the Jewish heart and Jewish compassion and Jewish morality?" pleaded Elie Wiesel, the Nobel winning Holocaust survivor, speaking out against the deportations.
But the migrants have gained some powerful allies, including Cabinet ministers on the left and right of Israeli politics and a group of Holocaust survivors. The prime minister's wife has spoken out against the policy, and Israel's kibbutz movement has vowed to hide the children in the country's 280 kibbutzim to thwart their deportation.
"This is not the Jewish state I know if it deports children," Industry Minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer shouted during a Cabinet debate.
"If the government doesn't want anymore children, then they should stop bringing in their parents," said Rozen. "It's as simple as that."

So, how does it make you not a bigot against your own ethnic group to treat all of it with such disgust over the actions of some of its members? And how does it help the image of that group for you to abandon it instead of fight to reclaim it as you believe it should be?

[Bosstone]

Hush, you'll spoil his garment-rending and interrupt his wailing and gnashing of teeth.

[Zeriel]

Again from the article:
"Israel's kibbutz movement has vowed to hide the children in the country's 280 kibbutzim to thwart their deportation."

That, too, is what Jews do.

[Shot From Guns]

Hush, you'll spoil his garment-rending and interrupt his wailing and gnashing of teeth.

No, that's what Jews do, and he's not a Jew anymore.

Again from the article:
"Israel's kibbutz movement has vowed to hide the children in the country's 280 kibbutzim to thwart their deportation."

:cough:Iquotedthatalready.:cough:

[yojimbo]

Jews don't do either act. People do.

Some people are bastards, some are nice. Some are right wing but nice, some are left wing but nice.

Some will sacrifice kids to push their political agenda and gain power and influence, some won't.

Your problem is with people not Jews. You expect too much of a label.

[Gyrate]

I'm not the first, nor will I be the last, to point out that Israel's occasional tendency to speak with the voice of the Nazis is reminiscent of the case of abused children who grow up to be abusers themselves. It is gratifying to see that Israel also contains those who remember and have learned where inhumanity in the name of racial purity can lead, and are willing to act against it.

[Malthus]

I'm not the first, nor will I be the last, to point out that Israel's occasional tendency to speak with the voice of the Nazis is reminiscent of the case of abused children who grow up to be abusers themselves. It is gratifying to see that Israel also contains those who remember and have learned where inhumanity in the name of racial purity can lead, and are willing to act against it.

If Israeli politicians are only fussed about this issue because of abused child syndrome, why are some politicians in Europe, US and Canada fired up about more or less the exact same issues?

See for example: "anchor babies", Arizona papering Latinos, etc.

[An Arky]

Eh, some days you're the Nazi, some days you're the Jew. For this, such apostasy?

[An Gadaí]

If Israeli politicians are only fussed about this issue because of abused child syndrome, why are some politicians in Europe, US and Canada fired up about more or less the exact same issues?

See for example: "anchor babies", Arizona papering Latinos, etc.

Indeed, Ireland changed its constitution in recent years to eliminate using "anchor babies" to get citizenship.

By the way, was it a security issue that stopped Israelis hiring Palestinians?

[Captain Amazing]

This is the sort of thing that can happen when a country doesn't have ius soli citizenship.

[Captain Amazing]

By the way, was it a security issue that stopped Israelis hiring Palestinians?

Yes. It was because of the Second Intafada in 2000.

[The Flying Dutchman]

This Is Not How Jews Behave (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hV-3mbsgikznLMNAy48FeFrXrmFAD9I6VNMG0).

This is not what Jews do. We do not throw human beings away because their very presence will dilute the purity of the Jewishness of Israel.

The video footage of the Israeli Parliment politician (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2010/09/14/hancocks.me.children.in.limbo.cnn?hpt=C2) waving his arms and decrying the kids' right to remain in the country where they were born is so eerily reminiscent of Leni Riefenstahl as to be, well, facist. The Jewishness of Israel ?? REALLY ???

Fuck you, you political fascist. Fuck you, you inhuman and inhumane bastard. You want to live in a state where you get to exclude anyone who is not just like you and yours? Cool- neonazis are everywhere in Europe and North America. Go, move your family, start a compound, raise a flag and be what you are.

I was born an ethnic Jew and that is inescapable. My last name is a Tribal name. As far as how I identify myself? No. I am no longer a Jew. Jews do not do this to other human beings.

That's what Nazis do.

:mad:

Cartooniverse

Are you going to renounce your American citizenship as well ?

[ElvisL1ves]

Maybe YOU'RE an example of a "real Jew" in this dispute, Cartooniverse?

[Really Not All That Bright]

So, a Jew, a Palestinian, and a migrant worker walk into a bar...

[Cat Whisperer]

Sorry, Israel, but you're living in a global world here. Unless you're planning on building a huge honking wall and cutting your whole country off from the rest of the world, people are going to come and go from your country, and that's a good thing. There are any number of groups that are always crying about losing their culture; I think that culture evolves and changes, and the good, strong parts will stay, and the rest will change into something else. I don't think trying to force a culture to remain stagnant works very well.

[42fish]

I'm no longer a Jew.
Cartooniverse


Mazeltov! I mean, congratulations.

[Czarcasm]

Jews don't do either act. People do.

Some people are bastards, some are nice. Some are right wing but nice, some are left wing but nice.

Some will sacrifice kids to push their political agenda and gain power and influence, some won't.

Your problem is with people not Jews.

You've convinced me.
I'm no longer a person.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

This Is Not How Jews Behave (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hV-3mbsgikznLMNAy48FeFrXrmFAD9I6VNMG0).

This is not what Jews do. We do not throw human beings away because their very presence will dilute the purity of the Jewishness of Israel.

The video footage of the Israeli Parliment politician (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2010/09/14/hancocks.me.children.in.limbo.cnn?hpt=C2) waving his arms and decrying the kids' right to remain in the country where they were born is so eerily reminiscent of Leni Riefenstahl as to be, well, facist. The Jewishness of Israel ?? REALLY ???

Fuck you, you political fascist. Fuck you, you inhuman and inhumane bastard. You want to live in a state where you get to exclude anyone who is not just like you and yours? Cool- neonazis are everywhere in Europe and North America. Go, move your family, start a compound, raise a flag and be what you are.

I was born an ethnic Jew and that is inescapable. My last name is a Tribal name. As far as how I identify myself? No. I am no longer a Jew. Jews do not do this to other human beings.

That's what Nazis do.

:mad:

Cartooniverse

Are you going to renounce your American citizenship as well ?
Why would he? America doesn't do this. If you are born in the US, you are a US citizen, period. That's guaranteed by the Consitution. We don't deport native born children if we don't like their race.

[Anne Neville]

And he has no shame doing this during the Ten Days of Repentance (between Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur). I thought we were supposed to be especially good during this time, not to act like Nazis and Know-Nothings.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I don't think it's fair to characterize this as something being done by "Jews," it's being done by a partical faction in Israel. It's basically the Israeli equivalent of American teabaggers.

[YogSosoth]

I thought this was about a shiksa

[The Flying Dutchman]

Are you going to renounce your American citizenship as well ?
Why would he? America doesn't do this. If you are born in the US, you are a US citizen, period. That's guaranteed by the Consitution. We don't deport native born children if we don't like their race.

You do deport illegal aliens (of the Mexican race) regardless if their children are US citizens. You think their mothers will abandon them?

The whole anchor baby scenario is bullshit.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Why would he? America doesn't do this. If you are born in the US, you are a US citizen, period. That's guaranteed by the Consitution. We don't deport native born children if we don't like their race.

You do deport illegal aliens (of the Mexican race) regardless if their children are US citizens. You think their mothers will abandon them?

The whole anchor baby scenario is bullshit.
That is a different scenario than what's being described in the OP. We don't do what's being described in the OP.

[Alessan]

True. However, just because the U.S. does something a certain way, doesn't make it a universal right. If you want to open a GD thread titled "Resolved: people have a universal right to automatic citizenship of their country birth", go right ahead; otherwise, accept that immigration laws differ from country to country.

At this point, I'm almost certain these kids won't be deported, anyway. They'll figure something out. Everybody will shout a lot, some sort of improvised legal and political solution will be found (to allow everyone to save face), and eventually, everything will work out. It's how we do things around here.


Incidentally: I have mixed feelings about the whole affair, fueled to a large degree by my loathing for certain groups and individuals on both sides of the argument. I've succeeded in avoiding arguing about it until now - no mean feat in Tel Aviv - so I'm not going to start now.

[Shot From Guns]

That is a different scenario than what's being described in the OP. We don't do what's being described in the OP.

So, what do we do? Even if the child is a citizen, they can't sponsor a parent until they're 21. So ISTM the parents are getting deported anyway, and the kid will probably get taken with them. I fail to see how this is so much better, other than the kid having U.S. citizenship.

[ElvisL1ves]

Sorry, Israel, but you're living in a global world here. Unless you're planning on building a huge honking wall and cutting your whole country off from the rest of the world,Um, they are.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

That is a different scenario than what's being described in the OP. We don't do what's being described in the OP.

So, what do we do?
Why do we have to do anything?
Even if the child is a citizen, they can't sponsor a parent until they're 21. So ISTM the parents are getting deported anyway, and the kid will probably get taken with them. I fail to see how this is so much better, other than the kid having U.S. citizenship.
I think this scenario rarely happens. We deport only a very small percentage of the total, and I think that those with natural born children are typically allowed to stay, but even if this were to happen, the kid still is not losing his citizenship. He can still come back (if he leaves with the parents at all, most likely he would stay with relatives/friends or become award of the state), and will always be a US citizen. We don't revoke the citizenship itself. It's the denial of citizenship on the basis of nothing but race (and the racial purity motivtion is explicit and avowed) that's unethical.

You are also overlooking the fact that the kid may NOT have a right to enter the country of his parents' origin.

[aldiboronti]

I'm rather afraid, Cartooniverse, that you'll have to go further if you want to avoid identification with nasty people. Something along the lines of I am no longer a human, I am a Marabou stork or I am no longer a human, I am a Thomson's gazelle might help to ease your troubled mind. Or it might not. (Who knows what some of those storks get up to)?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

True. However, just because the U.S. does something a certain way, doesn't make it a universal right.
I didn't say it was a universal right, I was merely rebutting an assertion that America does the same thing. It was a factual correction, nothing more. I am certainly allowed my opinion on the ethics of it, though.

[Shot From Guns]

Why do we have to do anything?

I'm not talking about what immigration policy in the U.S. should be. I'm talking about what it is. And it's my understanding that the so-called "anchor babies" are a complete fucking red herring, because even if someone is living here without authorization and has a child, that child will have no bearing on whether or not they're allowed to stay.

I think this scenario rarely happens. We deport only a very small percentage of the total, and I think that those with natural born children are typically allowed to stay, but even if this were to happen, the kid still is not losing his citizenship. He can still come back (if he leaves with the parents at all, most likely he would stay with relatives/friends or become award of the state), and will always be a US citizen. We don't revoke the citizenship itself. It's the denial of citizenship on the basis of nothing but race (and the racial purity motivtion is explicit and avowed) that's unethical.

I still fail to see what's so much better about "we'll kick out your parents and probably you, too, but you can come back in 20 years" that you feel the need to get all puffed up about it. My point is, our immigration policy is better than Israel's in that respect, but not that much better. The kids are still, at best, being separated from their parents, and in all likelihood being kicked out with them.

[The Flying Dutchman]

Sorry, Israel, but you're living in a global world here. Unless you're planning on building a huge honking wall and cutting your whole country off from the rest of the world, people are going to come and go from your country, and that's a good thing. There are any number of groups that are always crying about losing their culture; I think that culture evolves and changes, and the good, strong parts will stay, and the rest will change into something else. I don't think trying to force a culture to remain stagnant works very well.

Tell that to Saudi Arabia (http://www.justlanded.com/english/Saudi-Arabia/Saudi-Arabia-Guide/Visas-Permits/Citizenship) They seem to manage quite well.

I expect the concept of guaranteed citizenship simply by birth to be absent in most of the middle east.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Why do we have to do anything?

I'm not talking about what immigration policy in the U.S. should be. I'm talking about what it is. And it's my understanding that the so-called "anchor babies" are a complete fucking red herring, because even if someone is living here without authorization and has a child, that child will have no bearing on whether or not they're allowed to stay.
This is simply incorrect. The child is allowed to stay here, period. The child is a US citizen.

I still fail to see what's so much better about "we'll kick out your parents and probably you, too
There is no "probably you too." We don't kick out the children, period. I don't think we typically even kick out the parents. You're building a strawman.
My point is, our immigration policy is better than Israel's in that respect, but not that much better. The kids are still, at best, being separated from their parents, and in all likelihood being kicked out with them.
Except that this is not something we typically do. The kids are also not immigrants, they are citizens, so immigration policy has nothing to do with their own status. Can you show me a single real world example of parents actua;;y being deported and taking their US born children with them? I doubt you can. Even if you could, it's not a defense of anything in Israel, so what the hell is your point?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Sorry, Israel, but you're living in a global world here. Unless you're planning on building a huge honking wall and cutting your whole country off from the rest of the world, people are going to come and go from your country, and that's a good thing. There are any number of groups that are always crying about losing their culture; I think that culture evolves and changes, and the good, strong parts will stay, and the rest will change into something else. I don't think trying to force a culture to remain stagnant works very well.

Tell that to Saudi Arabia (http://www.justlanded.com/english/Saudi-Arabia/Saudi-Arabia-Guide/Visas-Permits/Citizenship) They seem to manage quite well.

I expect the concept of guaranteed citizenship simply by birth to be absent in most of the middle east.
So move to the Middle East, if that's how you think things should be.

[Shot From Guns]

I'm not talking about what immigration policy in the U.S. should be. I'm talking about what it is. And it's my understanding that the so-called "anchor babies" are a complete fucking red herring, because even if someone is living here without authorization and has a child, that child will have no bearing on whether or not they're allowed to stay.
This is simply incorrect. The child is allowed to stay here, period. The child is a US citizen.

Sorry, "they're allowed" meant "the parents are allowed," not the children. Undocumented parents with a U.S. citizen child are in exactly the same boat as undocumented parents with no child, or with a child who is also undocumented.

There is no "probably you too." We don't kick out the children, period. I don't think we typically even kick out the parents. You're building a strawman.

Sorry if your brain couldn't handle the ambiguity of phrasing, there. My intention, as I thought was clear from everything else I was saying, was, "We'll kick your parents out, which in effect means we'll be kicking you out, too, since they'll probably take you with, with the alternative being that you go into some sort of foster care, with relatives if you're lucky."

Except that this is not something we typically do. The kids are also not immigrants, they are citizens, so immigration policy has nothing to do with their own status. Can you show me a single real world example of parents actua;;y being deported and taking their US born children with them? I doubt you can.

I don't even know why I'm bothering, because you have a chronic history on this board of ignoring any evidence that doesn't fit the Dio Model of How the World Works. But here goes. I did a Google search for parents deported (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=parents+deported) and pulled a handful of the links off the first page of returns:

Children face difficult decision when immigrant parents deported (http://www.miracoalition.org/press/general-news/children-face-difficult-decision-when-immigrant-parents-deported)
100,000-plus Citizen Children Find Parents Deported (http://serrano.house.gov/NewsDetail.aspx?ID=553)
American Children, Deported Parents; Offspring Confront Painful Decision: U.S. Life or Family (http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-7443922.html)
Families face wrenching decisions when immigrant parents deported (http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local/report/083010_divided_families)
Study: Kids hurt when legal immigrant parents deported (http://blogs.chron.com/immigration/archives/2010/04/study_kids_trau.html)

Go fight your ignorance. Learn that having a child who is a citizen has absolutely no bearing on whether or not someone in this country without authorization is deported. Judges are not allowed to take family unity into account. That means that once the parents are being kicked out, the kids have to decide to go with or stay with people other than their parents.

Even if you could, it's not a defense of anything in Israel, so what the hell is your point?

My point is you need to get off your high horse talking about how much "better" the U.S. is than Israel, since we don't do anything like that here. Because we do, in fact, do something similar here--we just also give the kids citizenship, so we don't actively deport them. But we don't allow their parents to stay, which effectively kicks the kids out, anyway, or at least splits up their families.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

No, we don't do anything similar. At all. And the kids typically stay. I still don't see how any of this is a defense of Israel.

[kaylasdad99]

Are you going to renounce your American citizenship as well ?
Why would he? America doesn't do this. If you are born in the US, you are a US citizen, period. That's guaranteed by the Consitution. We don't deport native born children if we don't like their race.Knock wood.

kaylasdad99: :( that he feels he has to knock wood on that statement

[kaylasdad99]

True. However, just because the U.S. does something a certain way, doesn't make it a universal right. If you want to open a GD thread titled "Resolved: people have a universal right to automatic citizenship of their country birth", go right ahead; <SNIP>No point. The question is not up for debate because the proposition fact is not debatable.

[The Flying Dutchman]

And the kids typically stay.

That's a good thing? Separating children from their parents ?

And you know this how ?

[kaylasdad99]

No, we don't do anything similar. At all. And the kids typically stay.Isn't staying kind of rough on them when their parents have been shown the door? Particularly in the case of minor children; the kind who tend to rely on their parents for virtually all the necessities of life?

[Shot From Guns]

No, we don't do anything similar. At all. And the kids typically stay. I still don't see how any of this is a defense of Israel.

Oh, what a shock. Dio got shown a bunch of evidence he was completely wrong, so he just didn't respond to any of that and went back to a strawman, complete with meaningless and uncited assertions. (Cite for the fact that most children stay when their parents are deported? Cite that the ones who do stay aren't harmed by their parents' absence?)

None of this is a defense of Israel. Which is why you won't see me defending Israel on this. Anywhere. Including this thread. You fucking moron. What I am doing is saying that you need to stop thinking that the effective U.S. policy towards children born here is that much better. Let's say Israel's kneeing the kids in the balls, but we're still kicking them in the shins. Shin-kicking is preferable to knee-balling, but neither is nice, and you shouldn't be proud of being a shin-kicker.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Your complaint is just as stupid as complaining that we sometimes send people to prison who have kids, and that separates them from the kids. Who gives a shit? Israel is doing the equivalent of convicting the children too (and purely on the basis of race!). That's not a trivial difference.

[Bosstone]

No, we just force them to choose between leaving the country or losing their parents. We're classy.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I'm all for letting the parents stay. Sign me up. I didn't say America was perfect.

[Ludovic]

kaylasdad99: :( that he feels he has to knock wood on that statementBut you feel a natural revulsion to knocking wood, cause there's an evolutionary advantage to it...wait, wrong thread.

[Shot From Guns]

I didn't say America was perfect.

No, but you did say, "We don't do what's being described in the OP." Wheras, to me, it's pretty much hairsplitting between "we will kick you out with your parents" and "we will kick you out, and then you can choose to go with your parents, or be separated from them for, if you're lucky, the next couple decades."

But you feel a natural revulsion to knocking wood, cause there's an evolutionary advantage to it...wait, wrong thread.

IRL LOL.

[Shot From Guns]

Wheras, to me, it's pretty much hairsplitting between "we will kick you out with your parents" and "we will kick you out, and then you can choose to go with your parents, or be separated from them for, if you're lucky, the next couple decades."

Emphasis added. Ugh, sorry, I can't construct sentences while I'm talking to other people, apparently. That should have been:

Wheras, to me, it's pretty much hairsplitting between "we will kick you out with your parents" and "we will kick your parents out, and then you can choose to go with them, or be separated from them for, if you're lucky, the next couple decades."

[Guinastasia]

Looks like the thread's been Dio-ized. (Is that the right phrase?) Sorry, Cartooniverse)

[BayouHazard]

Sorry, Israel, but you're living in a global world here. Unless you're planning on building a huge honking wall and cutting your whole country off from the rest of the world,Um, they are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier
Yes.

Although the wall does seal off further westward expansion, which is probably a good thing-considering that the settlers are ideologically driven to take all they can.

Incidentally, we here in the U.S.(the majority, but not all of this site's traffic is U.S.-based, I think) do not seem to get unbiased reporting about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Our news slants to Israel, as in Israeli civilian casualties seem to get more coverage and more footage on air than do Palestinian civilian casualties.
I'd have to look for a while to cite examples, though. The wife and I stopped having a television. We will not permit anyone to give us one, either.
So this site is Palestinian-biased, but that I consider an anodyne for our regular reportage:
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
Anders Strindberg, The American Conservative
"Of the 750,000 Palestinians that were forced from their homes in 1948, some 50,000 were Christians—7 percent of the total number of refugees and 35 percent of the total number of Christians living in Palestine at the time."
(quoted from the above site)

So Israel was created through evicting Palestinians from Palestinian towns and putting up Israeli towns to replace them, as far as I know.
If they had done anything to compensate the Palestinians for this land seizure, or resettled them somewhere else, I would have less of a problem with it. But they didn't.

[marshmallow]

So move to the Middle East, if that's how you think things should be.

OK, Rush.

[Cat Whisperer]

Um, they are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier
Yes.

Although the wall does seal off further westward expansion, which is probably a good thing-considering that the settlers are ideologically driven to take all they can.

Incidentally, we here in the U.S.(the majority, but not all of this site's traffic is U.S.-based, I think) do not seem to get unbiased reporting about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Our news slants to Israel, as in Israeli civilian casualties seem to get more coverage and more footage on air than do Palestinian civilian casualties.
I'd have to look for a while to cite examples, though. The wife and I stopped having a television. We will not permit anyone to give us one, either.
So this site is Palestinian-biased, but that I consider an anodyne for our regular reportage:
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
Anders Strindberg, The American Conservative
"Of the 750,000 Palestinians that were forced from their homes in 1948, some 50,000 were Christians—7 percent of the total number of refugees and 35 percent of the total number of Christians living in Palestine at the time."
(quoted from the above site)

So Israel was created through evicting Palestinians from Palestinian towns and putting up Israeli towns to replace them, as far as I know.
If they had done anything to compensate the Palestinians for this land seizure, or resettled them somewhere else, I would have less of a problem with it. But they didn't.
Oh, God.

[carnivorousplant]

Oh, God.

That's not a terribly descriptive comment. :)

How many of the Palestinians were displaced in 1948 by the Arab nations attacking the new state of Israel?

[Cat Whisperer]

Oh, God, how about a whole lot of smiting? Is that better? :D

ETA: I should say, my groan was for the whole damned situation, not for any particular part of it.

[Paul in Qatar]

Organizing a country around a religion is dumb. It screws up the government and it screws up the religion too. Trust me, I know.

Organizing around an ethnic group is more common, but still quite dumb.

Trying to do both is simply madness. It is, on the face of it, unjust and unsustainable. As someone (Kissinger?) once pointed out, things that are unsustainable must, by definition come to an end.

[carnivorousplant]

Organizing a country around a religion is dumb.

Perhaps, but it is a place we can go and be safe when folks try to exterminate us.
:)

[TriPolar]

So, how does it make you not a bigot against your own ethnic group to treat all of it with such disgust over the actions of some of its members? And how does it help the image of that group for you to abandon it instead of fight to reclaim it as you believe it should be?

Many Jews are anti-semites.

[BayouHazard]

How many of the Palestinians were displaced in 1948 by the Arab nations attacking the new state of Israel?

According to this wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugee, there's not a straight answer to that question.

Lowball estimate is 50,000, high estimate is 900, 000.

However, my rather smart-aleck answer would be, "They were displaced in a conflict that ran from 1948 to the beginning of 1949. What, they couldn't walk home by now? It's a small country.":dubious:

I evacuated for a hurricane-if I came back and someone was living in my house, do they get to keep it?

Something else I was not aware of-Palestinians are denied citizenship in all other Arab league countries, supposedly to reinforce the idea of their sovereign statehood, but in reality it means that they are born stateless persons and are treated like dirt no matter where they are.

That is uncalled for. I think that the policy of the Arab league is the most horrible thing I've ever heard. Admittedly, I think if Palestinians were offered full citizenship elsewhere, they'd leave the occupied territories in droves. This would please the settlers, I'm sure.
But I hate to see the Palestinians suffer because of other people's ideologies, which, IMO, is what it boils down to.

[Babale]

I feel that the merits, or lack thereof, of this particular case are beyond the scope of this thread. Instead, let me poke holes in the OPs logic.

I completely understand the OP. Of course, he might want to stay Jewish, simply since other options are worse.

Christianity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades) is right out, of course. Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11) is a worse choice, since THAT happened recently. Not even Buddhism (http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/buddhist_extremists_brutally_attack_catholic_church_in_sri_lanka/) is safe. Hinduism (http://video.christianpost.com/20091222/hindu-attacks-on-christians-in-india) can be quite brutal, actually. For people who don't believe in anything, Athiests (http://mattstone.blogs.com/christian/2009/12/atheist-attacks-on-christians-in-china.html) are quite brutal. Hell, you might as well just not live, since human beings do some nasty stuff... Oh wait, dead people did some crazy stuff too. Well, you can't belong to any religion, or not believe in any religion, or be alive, or be dead...

Might as well be a Gazelle. Oh wait, they oppress baboons.... (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/541132/mother_gazelle_defends_her_young_successfuly/)

Seriously, if you're going to condemn an entire group for one member's actions, you're an idiot.

[Alessan]

Here's my question: why does every thread that happens to mention the word "Israel" eventually devolve into the exact same Israel thread?

[monstro]

Cartoon, don't succumb to self-hatred. There's no reason to take responsibility for things you aren't even doing. I mean, if I had to give back my "negro" card every time some black people somewhere did something wrong, I would have to check off "I AM NO RACE!" on the census form.

What people are advocating in Israel is fucked up, IMHO. But then again, the whole idea of a country restricted to a people who have a specific maternal ancestry is messed-up on its face. It would be no different if white Americans decided that they suddenly wanted a "white" country and kicked everyone--including Native Americans--out. And then opened the doors to everyone who are white (but only the "right" kind of white), damn the people who have been living in the country for centuries. That's crazy, and so is Israel. Lovely people, the Hebrews, but I'm not in love with the country (or the ones surrounding it...the whole region just seems like a place of madness.)

Yeah, yeah, everything is fair in love and war. I've heard it ad naseum. But I still don't see the fundamental difference between race-based citizenship and ethnic or religious-based citizenship. Especially if we are talking about everyone catering to the whims of a numerical minority.

I say folks should take the whole lot of kids and do a massive conversion. Turn them into bonafied Jews. Then, let them return when they reach the age of majority (that is, if they want to return to a country that rejected them). Then they will marry other Jews, and their kids can join the other non-practicing, secular Jews that represent the majority of the country. That's what I would do if I had a child in this situation. But I'm not glued to any religion, so it's quite easy for me to see this as the MAJOR BULLSHIT CRAP that it is.

I don't like that the US is considering doing a similar thing. Just becaue we're doing it doesn't make it right. In fact, given our foreign policy, I'd say countries would be wise to do the OPPOSITE of what we're doing.

[Alessan]

I say folks should take the whole lot of kids and do a massive conversion. Turn them into bonafied Jews. Then, let them return when they reach the age of majority (that is, if they want to return to a country that rejected them). Then they will marry other Jews, and their kids can join the other non-practicing, secular Jews that represent the majority of the country.

I've been thinking about it, and you know what? I think that many, perhaps even most Israeli Jews would have no problem with this proposal. I'd certainly be for it.

[ElvisL1ves]

Organizing a country around a religion is dumb. It screws up the government and it screws up the religion too. Trust me, I know. The sainted Founding Fathers of the US knew it a couple of centuries ago, too.

Here's my question: why does every thread that happens to mention the word "Israel" eventually devolve into the exact same Israel thread?Because the major issues there all stem from the exact same causes.


I say folks should take the whole lot of kids and do a massive conversion. Turn them into bonafied Jews. Then, let them return when they reach the age of majority (that is, if they want to return to a country that rejected them). Then they will marry other Jews, and their kids can join the other non-practicing, secular Jews that represent the majority of the country.

I've been thinking about it, and you know what? I think that many, perhaps even most Israeli Jews would have no problem with this proposal. I'd certainly be for it.But what would these kids think? What are their rights? Why the hell would they be willing either to be convinced to convert to a religion that showed them such intolerance OR to move back to a country, and among a people, that gave them such shit?

[Malthus]

Are you going to renounce your American citizenship as well ?
Why would he? America doesn't do this. If you are born in the US, you are a US citizen, period. That's guaranteed by the Consitution. We don't deport native born children if we don't like their race.

Heh, hilarious.

You do realize that America has a slight issue with illegal immigration, based on exactly the same sorts of issues as Israel, with exactly the same types lining up pro and con ... and to an outside observer, the difference between "kicking out the parents of minor children" and "kicking out the parents and minor children, too" is trivial, and harping on it is hairsplitting.

[Malthus]

Yeah, yeah, everything is fair in love and war. I've heard it ad naseum. But I still don't see the fundamental difference between race-based citizenship and ethnic or religious-based citizenship. Especially if we are talking about everyone catering to the whims of a numerical minority.

Israel doesn't have "race based citizenship". You can be of any ethnicity, religion or race, and be a citizen. So let's scotch that nonsense before it becomes a meme.

What Israel has, is a so-called "right of return" - that is, an automatic right, if you are Jewish, to be accepted as a citizen, whereas non-Jews must go through the usual process of immigration.

The reason it has this was in response to historical factors - namely, so that if there was again a persecution of Jews, there would not be a repeat of the WW2 scenario, where there was no country willing to take them in.

And lest it be said that this provision has outlived its usefullness - a group that has taken advantage of this since is the Ethiopian Jews , who faced extinction as a result of the war in Ethiopia - in 1991. Of course, they are Black, which lead to some problems with local racists; to their credit, the Israelis have made strenuous efforts to integrate them into Israeli society.

I suppose it may be said to be discriminatory to offer one group sanctuary and not another (why not all the non-Jewish ethiopians, too?), but the alternative to offering sanctuary to a selected group is generally to offer no sanctuary to anyone ...

I don't like that the US is considering doing a similar thing. Just becaue we're doing it doesn't make it right. In fact, given our foreign policy, I'd say countries would be wise to do the OPPOSITE of what we're doing.

The issue, as I see it, is not whether the current plan to crack down on illegals is right or wrong, but whether Israel is somehow uniquely horrible (and thus "Jews" responsible) because some Israeli politicians are advocating it ... thus leading to the wailing and gnashing of teeth as per the "I'm not a Jewwww!!!!!111oneone" in the OP.

[Alessan]

Because the major issues there all stem from the exact same causes.



Idiots on the internet?

[Shot From Guns]

Sorry, Cartooniverse)

Why apologize to him? It was a retarded thread to start with.

You do realize that America has a slight issue with illegal immigration, based on exactly the same sorts of issues as Israel, with exactly the same types lining up pro and con ... and to an outside observer, the difference between "kicking out the parents of minor children" and "kicking out the parents and minor children, too" is trivial, and harping on it is hairsplitting.

Don't bother. I already tried, with cites. Arguing with Dio's Weltanschauung is like screaming at a rock. Except you might actually knock a few molecules off the rock.

[ElvisL1ves]

Because the major issues there all stem from the exact same causes.



Idiots on the internet?
Bigots too.

[Shot From Guns]

Bigots and idiots and trolls, oh my!

[Clothahump]

The whole anchor baby scenario is bullshit.
You're absolutely right. Which is why we need a Constitutional Amendment defining citizenship as not just being physically born here, but adding the requirement that at least one of the parents has to be a U. S. citizen by birth or naturalization.

[Shodan]

Here's my question: why does every thread that happens to mention the word "Israel" eventually devolve into the exact same Israel thread?
Because Jews control the media.

Regards,
Shodan

[Shot From Guns]

Which is why we need a Constitutional Amendment defining citizenship as not just being physically born here, but adding the requirement that at least one of the parents has to be a U. S. citizen by birth or naturalization.

Yeah, because we've had such a terrible rash of people coming to the U.S. and having children here so they can stay. Oh wait, you're a retard and it doesn't work that way at all, because the parents get deported anyway.

Funny how you're so quick to amend the Constitution to institutionalize your bigotry--I wonder what kinds of proposed changes or interpretations you've objected to in the past.

[kaylasdad99]

Don't be too hard on him. The end of the year is approaching, and I understand that aigonz looks to be making a late bid for "Stupidest Doper."

So he's cherry-picking.

[Ike Witt]

If there is any justice, a bunch of French are denouncing their citizenship for the deportation of about 1000 Roma.

[carnivorousplant]

If there is any justice, a bunch of French are denouncing their citizenship for the deportation of about 1000 Roma.

There isn't. :(

[SteveG1]

... It is gratifying to see that Israel also contains those who remember and have learned where inhumanity in the name of racial purity can lead, and are willing to act against it.That speaks well of them. There are people there who are fighting it. That is a good thing. Don't abandon or condemn them, support them and send a heartfelt FUCK YOURSELF to the other guys.

[carnivorousplant]

... It is gratifying to see that Israel also contains those who remember and have learned where inhumanity in the name of racial purity can lead, and are willing to act against it.That speaks well of them. There are people there who are fighting it. That is a good thing. Don't abandon or condemn them, support them and send a heartfelt FUCK YOURSELF to the other guys.

The Right of Return isn't to preserve "racial purity" it is to save Jews from folks who want to kill them.

[SteveG1]

That speaks well of them. There are people there who are fighting it. That is a good thing. Don't abandon or condemn them, support them and send a heartfelt FUCK YOURSELF to the other guys.

The Right of Return isn't to preserve "racial purity" it is to save Jews from folks who want to kill them.

I don't see where allowing these children to stay would cause any Jews to be murdered. Or is this some sort of attempt at derailing? I was talking about planned deportation, not any sort of "return to serenity" nonsense.

[carnivorousplant]

I don't see where allowing these children to stay would cause any Jews to be murdered. Or is this some sort of attempt at derailing? I was talking about planned deportation, not any sort of "return to serenity" nonsense.

Perhaps I did not explain well. They are not deporting people to preserve racial purity. They are deporting people who are in Israel illegally, who have over stayed their work visas. It may not be morally right, but it is not done out of a desire for "racial purity".

[BigT]

Looks like the thread's been Dio-ized. (Is that the right phrase?) Sorry, Cartooniverse)

Naw, it was ruined by Shot from Guns way before that. Well, as far as a pit thread can be ruined.

[Paul in Qatar]

Organizing a country around a religion is dumb.

Perhaps, but it is a place we can go and be safe when folks try to exterminate us.
:)

So how has that being working out for you?

[digs]

Well, I'm thinking about all the narrow-minded people in my religio-ethnic group.

I am no longer a Congregationalist of Swiss Descent.

There. carry on.

[The Flying Dutchman]

Organizing a country around a religion is dumb. It screws up the government and it screws up the religion too. Trust me, I know.

Organizing around an ethnic group is more common, but still quite dumb.

Trying to do both is simply madness. It is, on the face of it, unjust and unsustainable. As someone (Kissinger?) once pointed out, things that are unsustainable must, by definition come to an end.

So what the hell are you doing in Saudi Arabia?

[Cartooniverse]

So, how does it make you not a bigot against your own ethnic group to treat all of it with such disgust over the actions of some of its members? And how does it help the image of that group for you to abandon it instead of fight to reclaim it as you believe it should be?

Many Jews are anti-semites.

You might want to read the rules of the road extremely carefully before you go calling me an Anti-Semite.

I did not say I was Anti-Semetic. I said I no longer am a Jew.

I stand by that OP. The lunatic fringe in Israel that has pushed for this abhorrent law has only themselves to blame when they are measured up against the Nazis and found to be only slightly lacking in form if not content.

It is despicable in the extreme.

ETA: What SteveG1 said.

[TriPolar]

Many Jews are anti-semites.

You might want to read the rules of the road extremely carefully before you go calling me an Anti-Semite.

I did not say I was Anti-Semetic. I said I no longer am a Jew.



If you are not Jewish, why did my statement bother you? And, are you denying the validity of the statement?

[Princhester]

While many first world nations have these sorts of debates, Israel is different because unlike (for example) the US or the UK or Australia it permits anyone of a certain religion to become a citizen without question. It is an unashamedly bigoted nation. Undoubtedly at a practical level the US and the UK and Australia (again, for example) have very significant bigotry, but not having explicitly bigoted laws is a step in the right direction. The equivalency that posters above posit is false.

[Acid Lamp]

I swear to og. Will someone please invent a time machine that can go backwards so we can take out Abraham, or whoever started this whole mess. Abrahamic religions, their divisions thereof, and what qualifies a person as membership of them have been the cause of more fussing fighting, wars and general ass-hattery than anything else I can think of in history.

Israel is arguably the source of the majority of the strife in the middle east.

[Paul in Qatar]

So what the hell are you doing in Saudi Arabia?

Changing it, slowly but profoundly.

[Malthus]

While many first world nations have these sorts of debates, Israel is different because unlike (for example) the US or the UK or Australia it permits anyone of a certain religion to become a citizen without question. It is an unashamedly bigoted nation. Undoubtedly at a practical level the US and the UK and Australia (again, for example) have very significant bigotry, but not having explicitly bigoted laws is a step in the right direction. The equivalency that posters above posit is false.

Nonsense. There is no "bigotry" in having a safe-haven law, favouring persons of a certain national ethnicity dispersed by a diaspora; that is simply part and parcel of historical reality - that some groups found themselves, as a result of cicumstance, in unique trouble. Moreover, Israel is far from alone in having such laws: many countries do, including many first-world ones. Here's a list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return

For example, Germany:

German law allows persons of German descent living in Eastern Europe (Aussiedler/Spätaussiedler ("late emigrants"; de:Aussiedler), see History of German settlement in Eastern Europe) to return to Germany and claim German citizenship. As with many legal implementations of the Right of Return, the "return" to Germany of individuals who may never have lived in Germany based on their ethnic origin has been controversial. The law is codified in Article 116 of the Basic Law for the Federal Republic of Germany, which provides access to German citizenship for anyone "who has been admitted to the territory of the German Reich within the boundaries of December 31, 1937 as a refugee or expellee of German ethnic origin or as the spouse or descendant of such person".[9]

The historic context for Article 116 was the eviction, following World War II, of an estimated 9 million ethnic Germans from other countries in Central and Eastern Europe. Another 9 million Germans from former eastern German provinces, over which Stalin and eastern neighbour states extended military hegemony in 1945, were expelled as well. These expellees and refugees (known as Heimatvertriebene) were given refugee status and documents and resettled by Germany; discussion of possible compensation is ongoing. Some German expellees desire to resettle in their territories of birth, youth and early life, but legal procedures often make remigration difficult, even after Poland and the Czech Republic joined the European Union.

The German law, like the Israeli law, was a result of the "displaced persons" (DP)problem following WW2: that millions of people had, in effect, no citizenship and no-where to go, as a result of war; moreover, in some cases, such as the Jews, moillions had *died* because no-one wanted to take them in.

The "bigotry" here lies in singling out Israel for particular condemnation for a problem (dealing with illegal immigration) which is common to all, and compounded by the historical ignorance which uniquely denounces Israel for having a 'safe haven' law created as a result of historical circumstance - again, very common in the world.

The absurdity of blaming all Jews (not just Israelis, but Jews) for this, demonstrated by the OP, is, of course, just icing on the cake of ignorant and stupid.

[The Flying Dutchman]

I was born an ethnic Jew and that is inescapable. My last name is a Tribal name. As far as how I identify myself? No. I am no longer a Jew....
:mad:

Cartooniverse

If you mother isn't a Jew, you have nothing to worry about.

[Sevastopol]

The 'right of return' under discussion is unique, in being afforded to people with no material connection to the territory.

[Cat Whisperer]

I swear to og. Will someone please invent a time machine that can go backwards so we can take out Abraham, or whoever started this whole mess. Abrahamic religions, their divisions thereof, and what qualifies a person as membership of them have been the cause of more fussing fighting, wars and general ass-hattery than anything else I can think of in history.

Israel is arguably the source of the majority of the strife in the middle east.
Shhh - you're not supposed to say that. They're perennial victims, and that's all we need to know.

[Malthus]

The 'right of return' under discussion is unique, in being afforded to people with no material connection to the territory.

Not so. Read the link - most if not all "rights of return" are afforded to people with no material connections to the territory.

[Shot From Guns]

Perhaps I did not explain well. They are not deporting people to preserve racial purity. They are deporting people who are in Israel illegally, who have over stayed their work visas. It may not be morally right, but it is not done out of a desire for "racial purity".

Their motivations for importing cheap labor without giving them any route to becoming citizens, however, could certainly be argued to stem from a desire to maintain a Jewish majority in Israel.

Naw, it was ruined by Shot from Guns way before that. Well, as far as a pit thread can be ruined.

Yeah, how dare I call someone out for being a bigot. Shame on me.

I did not say I was Anti-Semetic. I said I no longer am a Jew.

You said that you were no longer a Jew... because you were so ashamed of the actions of a minority that you're judging the entire disparate group based on the activities of those few.

But oh no, you're not a bigot at all.

Hey guys, I heard that a Black guy robbed someone yesterday. I've decided to be scared of and angry at all Black people now. But you can't call me a bigot, because a Black guy really did rob someone.

[Malthus]

Their motivations for importing cheap labor without giving them any route to becoming citizens, however, could certainly be argued to stem from a desire to maintain a Jewish majority in Israel.


Indeed; this tends to be the nature of the immigration problem everywhere - rich first world types want the cheap nannies, fruit pickers, road workers etc. from the third world, but they want them to go home after they are done and not stay, because they aren't 'like us', don't 'have our values', will 'swamp real (whatevers)'.

Forgetting that once upon a time their parents, grandparents or great-grandparents were the "cheap nannies, fruit pickers, road workers etc.".

[carnivorousplant]

Perhaps, but it is a place we can go and be safe when folks try to exterminate us.
:)

So how has that being working out for you?

Me? I've not had to go yet. :)

Russian and Ugandan Jews seem pretty happy with it lately.

[Princhester]

Nonsense. There is no "bigotry" in having a safe-haven law, favouring persons of a certain national ethnicity dispersed by a diaspora; that is simply part and parcel of historical reality - that some groups found themselves, as a result of cicumstance, in unique trouble.

While I haven't done an absolutely comprehensive reading, ISTM the list on Wikipedia comprises:

1/ 2nd and 3rd world nations with bigotted immigration laws I wouldn't personally want to hold up as an example of appropriate behaviour.

2/ nations which give a right of return to people with recent antecedents who were citizens of that nation (grandparents or better, mostly)

3/ nations who allow persons or fairly recent descendents of persons who were displaced in living memory to return.

A first world nation that says anyone at all has a right of return if they are Jewish even if they have as much connection to Israel as I do to Charlemagne has gone well beyond "we allow people who once lived here or are close descendents of such people to become citizens" and is into "we are bigotted against anyone who isn't Jewish".

I really don't know why you'd be arguing. ISTM people on the other side of this argument want it both ways. They wouldn't for a second deny that Israel is a Jewish state but don't seem to want to get to grips with what that means.

It's like saying "I'm not racist because I don't single out black people for discrimination. I just discriminate against everyone who isn't white".

[Malthus]

Nonsense. There is no "bigotry" in having a safe-haven law, favouring persons of a certain national ethnicity dispersed by a diaspora; that is simply part and parcel of historical reality - that some groups found themselves, as a result of cicumstance, in unique trouble.

While I haven't done an absolutely comprehensive reading, ISTM the list on Wikipedia comprises:

1/ 2nd and 3rd world nations with bigotted immigration laws I wouldn't personally want to hold up as an example of appropriate behaviour.

2/ nations which give a right of return to people with recent antecedents who were citizens of that nation (grandparents or better, mostly)

3/ nations who allow persons or fairly recent descendents of persons who were displaced in living memory to return.

Huh? The very example I specifically quoted - Germany - doesn't fit any of your categories, so I can safley say you are incorrect.

Germany is not a "2nd or 3rd world country". Ethnic Germans living in Poland were not "recent descendants of citizens".

A first world nation that says anyone at all has a right of return if they are Jewish even if they have as much connection to Israel as I do to Charlemagne has gone well beyond "we allow people who once lived here or are close descendents of such people to become citizens" and is into "we are bigotted against anyone who isn't Jewish".

I guess modern Germany is bigoted for allowing ethnic Germans who were displaced by WW2 citizenship?

Nonsense.

I really don't know why you'd be arguing. ISTM people on the other side of this argument want it both ways. They wouldn't for a second deny that Israel is a Jewish state but don't seem to want to get to grips with what that means.

People on your side of the debate are simply ignorant of modern history, what "nationalism" has meant, and what bigotry really means.

Israel is a "Jewish state" as Germany is a "German state" as Greece is a "Greek state". Yet people on your side never rally against any of the other countries in the world which self-identify as nationalist nation-states - only Israel. You never "get to grips" with what singling out one country out of all the others "means".

It's like saying "I'm not racist because I don't single out black people for discrimination. I just discriminate against everyone who isn't white".

No, people on your side of the debate are analogous to those who complain that all forms of affirmative action are "racist", ignorant of or ignoring the historical context of racism.

Rights of return are designed to ameliorate the bigotry imposed by others which deprives members of a particular ethnicity of a home - for example, by forcibly expelling or killing them (as happened to the "ethnic Germans" in Eastern Europe following WW2, and as happened to the Jews following WW2 and several times since).

Certainly, in the perfect world everyone would sink kumbayah together and ethnicity would not matter in the slightest. Unfortunately there are nasty people who don't believe this, who in fact expell or murder those of different ethnicities. Again, in the perfect world, everyone would be happy to let these poor expelled folk settle in their countries - but that, too, doesn't happen.

Since we do not live in the perfect world, the next best thing is for "rights of return" to exist. Perhaps these mechanisms have outlived their usefullness - or perhaps not.

[clairobscur]

That is uncalled for. I think that the policy of the Arab league is the most horrible thing I've ever heard. .

Why are you specifically criticizing the Arab League countries? How many Palestinian refugees our western wealthy countries are taking in?

Well...I was irritated at the dera

[clairobscur]

iling of the thread and I'm contributing to derail it further.

Anyway, regarding the OP : if you were an Israeli generally supporting Netanyahu, you could send back your party card. But stating "I'm not a Jew anymore" because you disagree with some Israeli policy, hence equating Jewishness (is that a word???) with Israel's policies is IMO part of the problem.

[kaylasdad99]

That speaks well of them. There are people there who are fighting it. That is a good thing. Don't abandon or condemn them, support them and send a heartfelt FUCK YOURSELF to the other guys.

The Right of Return isn't to preserve "racial purity" it is to save Jews from folks who want to kill them.It appears that some Israeli lawmakers have forgotten about that.

[carnivorousplant]

The Right of Return isn't to preserve "racial purity" it is to save Jews from folks who want to kill them.It appears that some Israeli lawmakers have forgotten about that.

How so?

[Babale]

It appears that some Israeli lawmakers have forgotten about that.

How so?

It's not so, but since the truth doesn't fit his argument, he's conviniently ignoring it.

[Sevastopol]

The 'right of return' under discussion is unique, in being afforded to people with no material connection to the territory.

Not so. Read the link - most if not all "rights of return" are afforded to people with no material connections to the territory. It is so. In every case an exercise of the right of return is about a 'return'. Either to the country of the person's birth, or former residence; or that of a recent ancestor. In other words there is a material connection by soil or through the blood {soli or sangui}.

Every case except Israel, which wouldn't be so bad, except that Israel goes further, excluding the right of return from those who would exercise it based on ancestry or residence. It is only for Jews.

[Babale]

Not so. Read the link - most if not all "rights of return" are afforded to people with no material connections to the territory. It is so. In every case an exercise of the right of return is about a 'return'. Either to the country of the person's birth, or former residence; or that of a recent ancestor. In other words there is a material connection by soil or through the blood {soli or sangui}.

Every case except Israel, which wouldn't be so bad, except that Israel goes further, excluding the right of return from those who would exercise it based on ancestry or residence. It is only for Jews.

Are you ignoring his Germany link on purpose? Or do you just enjoy being wrong?

And it's not as if the law is saying only Jews can become Israelis. It's just that Jews have a shortcut. You know what other shortcuts like that exist? Minorities can get into American colleges more easily than whites. Oh no! Let's organize a lynching party!

[Damuri Ajashi]

This Is Not How Jews Behave (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hV-3mbsgikznLMNAy48FeFrXrmFAD9I6VNMG0).

This is not what Jews do. We do not throw human beings away because their very presence will dilute the purity of the Jewishness of Israel.

The video footage of the Israeli Parliment politician (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2010/09/14/hancocks.me.children.in.limbo.cnn?hpt=C2) waving his arms and decrying the kids' right to remain in the country where they were born is so eerily reminiscent of Leni Riefenstahl as to be, well, facist. The Jewishness of Israel ?? REALLY ???

Fuck you, you political fascist. Fuck you, you inhuman and inhumane bastard. You want to live in a state where you get to exclude anyone who is not just like you and yours? Cool- neonazis are everywhere in Europe and North America. Go, move your family, start a compound, raise a flag and be what you are.

I was born an ethnic Jew and that is inescapable. My last name is a Tribal name. As far as how I identify myself? No. I am no longer a Jew. Jews do not do this to other human beings.

That's what Nazis do.

:mad:

Cartooniverse

It strikes me that you are still quite Jewish, tis the guys you are mad at that needs a little reminder (at least as far as I understand Judaism).