Merchant Marines

[Jophiel]

Well, tired of the daily grind, I've decided to leave it all behind and join the merchant marines. A few problems however. First, I have no idea who these guys are. Secondly, I don't know what they really do. Third, I don't know if they still exist.

So who are they? The name conjures up images of cargo ships armed with cannon fending off pirates on the high seas or something. But what city is going to let some heavily armed merchant ship with no nationality into port? And if they have a nationality, why is some nation letting an armed vessel fly its flag, but not pledge allegiance to the national navy? And lastly, how does one join?

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"I guess it is possible for one person to make a difference, although most of the time they probably shouldn't."

[bantmof]

AFAIK, the merchant marine is basically just the non-military cargo ships. In wartime (I'm talking about a WW-II style war, not these little pissant things we've seen recently), they become attached to the military somehow and are used to ferry troops and supplies to the front.

The US has a marchant marine. You can join any time you want, but you won't be involved in combat unless another major war breaks out.

--
peas on earth

[Jorge]

The merchant marine actually exists as we speak... the civilian cargo-supply for the Dept. of Defense, they are U.S. seamen, operating a U.S. flagship, under DOD contract: MSC, or "Military Sealift Command". Everything from PX privileges to pee tests.

But the expression usually includes all professional civilian sailors under their national flag: Greek merchant mariners, say, are those under Greek not, say, Liberian flag vessels.

The academy is at King's Point, NY, on Long Island.

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"Proverbs for Paranoids, 3: If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers."
- T.Pynchon, Gravity's Rainbow.

[Monty]

Oh, good grief! Check a dictionary! From Merriam-Webster:
merchant marine (noun)

First appeared 1855

1 : the privately or publicly owned commercial ships of a nation

2 : the personnel of a merchant marine

The Merchant Marine Academy is a federal Service Academy which trains personnel not only as officers of the merchant ships but also trains them as Reserve Officers of the Navy.

[elbow]

I have Singaporean friends who are in the merchant marines. Once, when I had returned there for a visit, they were very anxious to see me as they had actually visited Canada and couldn't wait to tell me what fun they'd had and how much they enjoyed it.
Their port of call? Frobisher Bay !! I did my best to explain that it was not truly representative of the rest of Canada though I was glad they had a good time.
One thing really puzzled them, when asked about their occupations they inevitably responded, 'We're seamen', they just couldn't understand why Canadians always laughed at this.

[ChiefScott]

Merchant marines are vital to the United States.
The primary mission of the U.S. Navy is to keep open shipping lanes to allow trade between the U.S. and other nations to continue. We can keep open the lanes, but if no one uses them, we fail in our mission.
That's where the merchant marines come into play.
USNS vessels and other U.S. flagged ships may, in times of war or by CINC order, be pressed into service to move troops, equipment, ammunition and supplies overseas. They may also be used as platforms to evacuate embassy personnel or refugees from countries in crisis. The last major use of USNS vessels for a military operation was Operation Desert Shield.
Often overlooked, the merchant marines were crucial to Great Britain's defiance of Germany in WWII. Convoys crossed the North Atlantic bringing England much of the war materials needed by them to wage war against Hitler. Curiously, the U.S. merchant marines had the highest death rate of any branch of service during the war. The Third Reich's wolfpacks took a large bite out of our maritime forces before we learned to adequately protect them.
You may still join the merchant marines. But you must now already have the skills needed aboard an ocean-going vessel before they will even consider you. Also it is a very tough life. Most of your time is spent at sea. Ship overhauls are few and far between. The U.S. government has consistantly overlooked its merchant marine fleet in favor of its high-tech Navy.

[manhattan]

Another thing you should know before shoving off. Don’t expect lots of exotic ports of call in your new career as a U.S. merchant mariner. The U.S. commercial fleet is much more expensive to operate than commercial vessels, because to earn the right to fly a U.S. flag on your ship you have to do all sorts of outrageous things like be safe, pay your sailors a living wage, pay taxes, sail an American-built ship, etc.

The result is that U.S. vessels currently tend to be used only for those trips where a U.S. ship is required by U.S. law. Specifically, trade within the U.S. So the Prudhoe Bay to Los Angeles run will be on a U.S. ship, but the Singapore to San Francisco trip will not. Cruise ships outside the Hawaii trade tend to be foreign flagged. IIRC, ships carrying grain under U.S. foreign aid programs have to be American, so maybe you’ll get to see Vladivostok.

Theoretically, ships flying the U.S. flag or that of one of our allies get protection from the United States Navy. And they do. But when push comes to shove, we always cave and provide protection to ships flying "flags of convenience" too.

Someday, when some dictator closes down a gulf (or whatever), I hope we have a President with the spine to say "You like the low costs of being a Liberian ship so much? Call the Liberian Navy! Putz!"

But it won’t happen.


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Livin' on Tums, Vitamin E and Rogaine

[Jophiel]

Oh, good grief! Check a dictionary!
Humph. Besides the fact that my dictionary is in an unmarked box somewhere with the bulk of my books (post-move), I doubt that it'd tell me exactly what they do and how to join. Half the reson for posting here is for the color commentary.

Ok, so I wasn't really planning on joining, but the context I've always heard on people joining the merchant marines was in the same rogue romantic context as joining, say, the Foreign Legion. So, I was under the assumption that they did more than cart around crates of lugnuts from San Fransisco to Hawaii for the Navy. Wow, that sounds mighty boring. I better keep my job. ;)

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"I guess it is possible for one person to make a difference, although most of the time they probably shouldn't."

[dasmoocher]

Jorge-isn't the Merchant Marine a branch of the Dept of Transportation and not Defense, at least during peacetime? When was the last time they were under DOD jurisdiction, if anybody knows? Vietnam?

[manhattan]

Ohmygosh, Jophiel!

Don’t assume from my lil ol’ post that U.S. merchant mariners are doomed to "cart around crates of lugnuts from San Francisco to Hawaii for the Navy."

Oh, no, not at all! Imagine yourself as the captain of a bargetow, navigating the Mighty Mississippi with 70 barges of natural gas out of the Big Easy. If you’re too fast, BOOM, Natchez gets blown off the map. Too slow, and Memphis goes dark.

Too stressful? OK, you’re captain of a brand new cruise ship, running out of Oahu for 7-day cruises hitting Maui, the Big Island and Lanai. They’re shooting an episode of Baywatch next month and want you for a cameo.

No? How ‘bout a tugboat captain in Newport News, taking the shiny new USS Ronald Reagan out to sea for the very first time. Why, you can remember hauling in the steel to lay her keel – seems like only yesterday.

Or a harbormaster captain in New York, guiding the big oilers past the Statue of Liberty into the Kill Van Kull. Yea, ships come in and out of port all the time, but for the big jobs they always call you. Because you know the Harbor.

Don’t give up yet. There are plenty of terrific jobs in the U.S. merchant marine. Some don’t even require travel. Most pay well (NY Harbormaster >$200K). And the ladies love ya.

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Livin' on Tums, Vitamin E and Rogaine

[aseymayo]

Before you go, you might want to read "Looking for a Ship" by John McPhee.

[BunnyGirl]

Here's my addition to the trivia for the day:

My grandfather was in the Merchant Marines during WWII. That's all I know; have a picture of him in his uniform (looks just like old dress blue crackerjacks). Still alive, but never discussed it with anyone I know. Gotta ask him.....

[tomndebb]

I was a merchant marine. I worked on Great Lakes ore boats two summers in college. I had to get a seaman's card (don't remember what it was officially called). That basically meant that I had to go down to the Federal Building in Detroit, pay a fee, have a photo taken, have my fingerprints taken, and receive a slightly-larger-than-a-driver's-license card with my photo and thumbprint and "VALIDATED FOR EMERGENCY SERVICE" stamped across it. (I wonder if I'll get called up in some future crisis?)

After that, I just had to talk some shipping company in to hiring me. My brother, two years later, was simply told to go to the union hall, join the union, and wait. (For most of the iron ore fleets, the union was Local 1000 of the Steelworkers.)

If you want to be an officer, the Merchant Marine Academy is not your only option. I believe you have to be appointed to the MMA, just as to Annapolis, West Point, etc. You can also pursue that career on your own through one of the colleges or academies on this web site: http://www.hal-pc.org/~nugent/school.html .

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Tom~

[Monty]

Chief Scott: I sincerely hope you do more research for your professional writings. The last major use of USNS vessels continues today. The US Navy owns the vessels and those vessels are manned by a civilian crew in the employ of the US Navy. There is also a military department on those ships under the charge of an Officer in Charge.

A very good example of a merchant vessel being pressed into service in time of war or other emergency would be the Royal Navy's use of the QEII during the Falklands War.

Let me know if y'all need more help in interpreting the freaking dictionary definition cited above.

[Monty]

647: Nope. The Merchant Marine is not a branch of any part of the United States Government--not even during wartime. What it is, though, is defined quite nicely in the dictionary cite I quoted above.

During peacetime, the MM are under the purview of the Department of Transportation, and also the Department of Commerce, in regards to licensing, safety, business, and other concerns. During wartime, the MM is under the purview of the DOD in regards to missions to which they're assigned.

Please, folks; let's not get hung up on the word "Marine" in "Merchant Marine." All that means is that those guys (and gals, of course!) are the seaborne merchants of a country. The US Marines, however, are a part of the US Navy and thus aren't merchants.

[Monty]

Jophiel: So you're considering joining the French Foreign Legion? Here's a handy link.

http://www.info-france-usa.org/america/embassy/legion/legion.htm

Bon voyage!

[BenDover]

I used to be a merchant marine officer - captain of a supply boat for the oil fields in the Gulf of Mexico. Big deal.

Go to south Louisiana and apply for a job as a deckhand with one of the companies that supplies boats to the oil companies (my old company is always hiring). For little more than minimum wage, you can spend long periods of time away from land crowded onto a small boat with a bunch of strangers, two at least of which will be yelling and swearing at you because you are screwing up, doing a dirty, dangerous job while hoping you don't get seasick.

After a couple of years of that shit, you can pay a bunch of money to go to a 'sea school' to study for advancement - to Able-bodied Seaman, or Assistant Engineer, or First Mate, or even Captain. (Different lengths of time for all of these, and depends on what size vessel you worked on.) Take the test required by the Coast Guard, and get your new license, make a little more money, eat a little less shit.

BTW, Merchant Marines are licensed, inspected, etc. by the Coast Guard, and overseen by the DOT except in wartime, when they come under the control of the DOD.

My official title was 'Master, Near Coastal Steam or Motor Vessels of Not More than 100 Gross Tons'. I was also a Grade B Tankerman. Every five years you have to take a 'refresher' test and renew your licenses.

Pre-employment drug screening is a requirement, random testing frequent, and once you earn a license of some kind you can get in deep shit for flunking, even during your time off.

[ChiefScott]

Monty -- I do a lot of research before publishing. I stand by my initial statement, "The last major use of USNS vessels for a military operation was Operation Desert Shield."
A military operation is a single operation to attain a given mission. -- not the everyday operations of our Navy and Merchant Marines.

You'll note I didn't say "Last major use of USNS vessels..."

Of course the USNS and Merchant Marine fleet is still operational and in use today -- just not for a major military operation. When these vessels and crews fall under the auspises of DoD for war material movement. that's when they prove their mettle.

When not directly involved in a operation, these USNS ships are undergoing overhaul, providing underway replenishment services close to U.S. Coastal waters, or remain at their homeports loaded and ready for an emergency which would see them deploy. They act as the most basic kind of freighter when not involved in a military operation.


The last operation which pressed all of our USNS ships and some U.S. flagged vessels into service for a military sea lift was the Gulf War.

You, in effect, read my statement and choose to attack only one part of it. This is poor form. Since such idiocy is easily highlighted.

[voltaire]

Please, folks; let's not get hung up on the word "Marine" in "Merchant Marine." All that
means is that those guys (and gals, of course!) are the seaborne merchants of a
country.


Well in that case, shouldn't they be called the Marine Merchants? Or does that just not sound as glamorous?

[Monty]

You remain incorrect, Scott. And that flabbergasts me as you're apparently assigned to an aircraft carrier. What amazes me is that you continue to equate the USNS vessels with "the entire merchant marine." It's merely one part of that; however, it (the USNS fleet) is owned by the US Navy. And the USNS fleet had vessels deployed with USS vessels on every deployment I've made in my career. Or just maybe I was dreaming when I was onboard the USNS WALTER DIEHL.

You are so right when you say that idiocy is easily highlighted. In this case it's yours. I certainly hope you have someone else write the port briefs.

[manhattan]

Whoop! Whoop! Whoop! Red Alert! Battle Stations! This is no drill. I repeat, this is no drill. Prepare for flame war. I say again, prepare for flame war!

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Livin' on Tums, Vitamin E and Rogaine

[UncleBeer]

This probably doesn't help, but I'll throw it out here anyway.

From www.usmm.org (http://www.usmm.org)

The Merchant Marine is the fleet of ships which carries imports and exports during peacetime and becomes a naval auxiliary during wartime to deliver troops and war materiel. According to the Merchant Marine Act of 1936: "It is necessary for the national defense... that the United States shall have a merchant marine of the best equipped and most suitable types of vessels sufficient to carry the greater portion of its commerce and serve as a naval or military auxiliary in time of war or national emergency..." During World War II the fleet was nationalized, that is, the U.S. Government controlled the cargo and the destinations, contracted with private companies to operate the ships, put guns and Navy personnel (Armed Guard) on board. The Government trained the men to operate the ships through the U.S. Maritime Service.

From the forward of the Merchant Marine Reserve handbook

A close and mutually supportive relationship between the Navy and the merchant marine has existed since the American Revolution. The Merchant Marine Reserve, U.S. Naval Reserve (MMR, USNR) Program is intended to reinforce that relationship.

The U.S. Navy evolved out of the American merchant marine. Practically every naval officer in the American Revolution was an experienced merchant mariner and the Navy's first fighting ships were primarily merchant vessels with guns installed. Our first six frigates, authorized by Congress on 27 March 1794, were commanded by ex-merchant mariners. During the Navy's early years, naval officers and midshipmen were encouraged to sail on merchant vessels to gain additional seagoing experience and to improve their nautical skills. Until World War II, officers and men trained in the merchant marine formed the most important manpower reserve for the Navy.

In World War I, the Navy's Cruiser and Transport Service and the Naval Overseas Transportation Service were largely crewed by merchant marine officers the Naval Reserve called to active duty. Together these two services transported almost two million men and sixty percent of the supplies sent to the allied forces.

With World War II threatening in Europe and Asia, Congress enacted the Merchant Marine Act of 1936. Its primary purpose was to establish a strong merchant marine capable of service as a naval and military auxiliary in time of war or national emergency. Qualified merchant marine officers joined the Naval Reserve as the likelihood of war increased. During the war, these officers served our country valiantly. Proportionally, their losses exceeded those of the U.S. Navy.

Today the U.S. Navy has substantially fewer ships than it did at the end of World War II. However, one of its primary missions, protecting the sea lanes vital to the nation in time of war, has not changed. Further, since 1984 the Navy has been assigned the additional mission of Strategic Sealift. To accomplish these missions with fewer ships, the Navy is working more closely with the merchant marine than ever before. Merchant tankers and cargo ships are routinely training with and supporting fleet operations.

[dasmoocher]

Hey Monty, maybe my choice of words--branch vs. purview was vague, sorry. But, I was a guest at King's Point this summer at the home of one of the "higher-ups" and I was told by my host that they were under the "purview" of the Dept. of Trans. and not DOD, unless called up/activated/transferred in time of war. That's all I was saying, and I heard this from "one of the horses mouths". But, if the USMMA is not "branch" of the government, who pays for the academy? I'm under the impression that the USMMA is considered a service academy, the same as Annapolis and West Point. They were upset that they were left out of the Discovery Channel documentary about service academies. Check out the USMMA Website for more info. I'm only familiar with the academy (and not the working service in general) through social connections. I'm I that wrong ? Didn't you post that the Merchant Marine was a FEDERAL service academy (9-8)? Do the midshipmen pay their own way; I really don't know. How is that reconciled with the fact that you state it's not a "branch" of the Federal government (9-11). It's got to be a federal "branch" of something, right, if it's a federal service academy, as you stated. The Citadel and VMI are private academies, but USMMA is public ( like USNA and USMA), isn't it?

[Monty]

The USMMA is not a "branch of the government," it is, as I also mentioned above, a Federal Service Academy. My point is that the merchant ships, other than the USNS ones, are privately owned, and thus not part of the government.

The USNS vessels are owned by the United States Navy, and there also happen to be vessels owned by the United States Army. I really don't recall what their abbreviation is or to which corps in the Army they belong; Transportation, Supply or Engineers is my guess. The military folks who serve on the Army vessels, though, have what the Army calls a "marine MOS."

I do check out the USMMA site a lot, happen to have it on my "favorite places" menu at work.

And having seen USNS vessels refuel and resupply every ship I've served on (excepting of course for the stint on the refueling vessel, DIEHL, I mentioned above), I'm quite sure that Scott is talking out his cover.

[dasmoocher]

Monty--we're talking semantics. I agree that a lot of the ships are "privately" owned. Somehow, I think the Merchant Marine is on some Federal flowchart somewhere. Whether that constitutes a "branch" of government is semantics. It's a fork on the big scheme somewhere. Is it a "branch" as in the same sense/size as the Navy or Army? Probably not. With regard to the OP and commercial shipping, you're probably more informed than I and I can't disagree with you on the nuts and bolts of it. But I have been to King's Point recently, and have heard some (senior) officers' opinions; so I would like to think that I'm not totally clueless as to what's going on at the USMMA, at least.

[Monty]

647: a matter of semantics would be, as an example, discussing if the Marine Corps is a separate service as the Air Force is. The government does not own merchant ships other than the ones I described above. That's not semantics; it's fact.

[dasmoocher]

Monty--USAF vs. USMC is not a matter of semantics, as members of both services, I'm sure, would like to point out to you. I'm missing the point of your reply. I was talking about "branch" vs. "purview" with the regard to the Merchant Marine. I agree with most of what you are saying-those ships are privately owed, and I said my choice of words was vague. But, you also stated that the USMMA is a Federal service academy; but then you stated it is not a branch of the Federal government. How can you have both ways? Bust me on the facts that I'm not sure about-do midshipmen pay their own way at USMMA?

[Monty]

Okay, 647: I'll take this slowly for you and just pretend you're new to the language.

1) I used the examples of the US Marine Corps (USMC) and the US Air Force (USAF) because the USMC is still a part of another service, the US Navy, and the USAF is no longer is part of the US Army. Saying the USMC is a separate service just like the USAF is talking semantics because, by law, it is not.

2) The US Merchant Marine Academey is a school. It is not, and never has been, the Merchant Marine. It is a school, as all the Federal Service Academies are. This school provides trained officers who are available to the merchant ships of the United States. Those companies which hire those officers will pay their salaries (feel free to jump in here and say that I just implied the companies are paying the midshipmen--I did not) after they're hired. One of the outfits which hires those officers just so happens to be the USN and another outfit is the USA; those officers get assigned (for the ones hired by the Navy) to the USNS ships and I still don't recall the abbreviation used for the Army's civilian-crewed vessels.

3) Since the midshipmen are attending a Federal Service Academy, there tuition is free and they also come out of the school with a commission in a Reserve of the Armed Forces.

4) Two questions for you: How did you confuse just one school with the entire merchant fleet of the United States? Are you that unobservant?

[Monty]

In number 3) above, there should read their.

Please feel free to continue with the WAGs.

[dasmoocher]

monty-thanks for the patronizing answer. I was only talking about the USMMA because I was there this summer and met some of the people there. I won't bother to argue your last post because, like I stated previously, you probably know more about it than I. But I do have one more question for you to belittle my point. Are the officers who work at the USMMA part of the Merchant Marine or not; and, if so, are they "part of" the federal government as, say an USN officer is? If they're civilian employees, why is the commandant, for example, an Admiral?

[dasmoocher]

OK--I checked the USMMA Website and it's the superintendent and not commandant that's an Admiral; and, an Admiral of the U.S. Maritime Service. So, how is the USMS related to the MM? Also, their--oops (I'm slow with the language), there was something about an USNMM Reserve. What's the scoop?

[dasmoocher]

OK--I checked the USMMA Website and it's the superintendent and not commandant that's an Admiral; and, an Admiral of the U.S. Maritime Service. So, how is the USMS related to the MM? Also, their--oops (I'm slow with the language), there was something about an USNMM Reserve. What's the scoop?