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Morella
10-22-2010, 06:05 AM
Are you suggesting that Obama had no mother and therefore sprang from his father's forehead via some form of parthenogenesis?

'Cause that'd be awesome.

His mother was a minor. Whether or not she was a US citizen, I don't know.

What amazes me is, here I am, open-minded, asking questions from you people, ignoring your insults, giving you an opportunity to educate me, and all you can do is call me stupid. Who is really coming across as stupid here?

tagos
10-22-2010, 06:24 AM
Who is really coming across as stupid here?

When your position is such that only Starving Artist is on your side the question pretty much answers itself.

Anyone who thinks The President is not American is, by definition, stupid.

Czarcasm
10-22-2010, 06:29 AM
This is supposed to explain why Obama Hussein Sr. was subject to the jurisdiction of the United States?

I asked a very specific question here, and the fact that you cannot answer it does not make me stupid.No, but the fact that you've asked it does.

Gustav
10-22-2010, 06:30 AM
It's fine to ask questions, but that one is REALLY easy to google.

Czarcasm
10-22-2010, 06:31 AM
His mother was a minor. Whether or not she was a US citizen, I don't know.

What amazes me is, here I am, open-minded, asking questions from you people, ignoring your insults, giving you an opportunity to educate me, and all you can do is call me stupid. Who is really coming across as stupid here?It's really too bad we can't have polls in The BBQ Pit, isn't it?

Leaper
10-22-2010, 06:37 AM
His mother was a minor.

Why would U.S. law penalize a child because his mother is too young? That seems to be zeroing in on the letter of a law rather than the spirit to a rather ridiculous degree.

But then, this whole discussion may be off-topic for this thread.

Ludovic
10-22-2010, 06:39 AM
Why would U.S. law penalize a child because his mother is too young? That seems to be zeroing in on the letter of a law rather than the spirit to a rather ridiculous degree.

But then, this whole discussion may be off-topic for this thread.I'd say it's totally on topic. We have an honest-to-og teabagger and birther here. Choice of seating and light snack of choice was never more apropos.

Morella
10-22-2010, 06:54 AM
When your position is such that only Starving Artist is on your side the question pretty much answers itself.

Anyone who thinks The President is not American is, by definition, stupid.

Has anyone informed Webster's of this change?

Fear Itself
10-22-2010, 06:56 AM
This is supposed to explain why Obama Hussein Sr. was subject to the jurisdiction of the United States?What makes you think Kenyans are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States? Are they immune from prosecution if they commit crimes here?

Morella
10-22-2010, 07:01 AM
I'd say it's totally on topic. We have an honest-to-og teabagger and birther here. Choice of seating and light snack of choice was never more apropos.

You have neither. I asked a question about Obama's citizenship, a question which has obviously made a lot of people uncomfortable. I see this same reaction in religious forums, when a question is posed that makes people question their faith in their god-thing. Did you vote a Kenyan Muslim into the White House, at a time when we're at war with Muslims? That would have been one stupid-assed mistake, wouldn't it?

As for the term "birther", I have found that it refers to people who question Obama's birth certificate, which I have not done, despite its questionability. I asked a well-documented, straightforward question, and none of you can answer it. I'm not the one who is being stupid here.

Gyrate
10-22-2010, 07:10 AM
Did you vote a Kenyan Muslim into the White House, at a time when we're at war with Muslims? That would have been one stupid-assed mistake, wouldn't it?Yes it would have been. Good thing we didn't.

The fact that his mother was a minor is irrelevant. He was born in America to a parent who was an American citizen. The Fourteenth Amendment applies. Barack Obama is, and always has been, a natural-born citizen of the USA.

Morella
10-22-2010, 07:10 AM
What makes you think Kenyans are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States? Are they immune from prosecution if they commit crimes here?

That's not what "jurisdiction" means, in this case. Here is a link that may be helpful.

http://federalistblog.us/2007/09/revisiting_subject_to_the_jurisdiction.html

Obama Hussein Sr. was not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States because he was a citizen of Kenya.

Fear Itself
10-22-2010, 07:14 AM
That's not what "jurisdiction" means, in this case. Here is a link that may be helpful.

http://federalistblog.us/2007/09/revisiting_subject_to_the_jurisdiction.html

Obama Hussein Sr. was not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States because he was a citizen of Kenya.What a fanciful fabrication of history. Too bad it has no relevance in the real world, a place you have not resided since 1964.

Morella
10-22-2010, 07:18 AM
Yes it would have been. Good thing we didn't.

The fact that his mother was a minor is irrelevant. He was born in America to a parent who was an American citizen. The Fourteenth Amendment applies. Barack Obama is, and always has been, a natural-born citizen of the USA.

Did I mention that Barry Soetoro was an Indonesian citizen?

To say that Barry is a US citizen is, perhaps, arguable. To say that he is an American is just too much of a stretch. The man did not even know how many states there were in the union, for Christ's sake. He was not raised in the US, he knows nothing about the US, but you elected him to run it. And you call me stupid?

Czarcasm
10-22-2010, 07:21 AM
Did I mention that Barry Soetoro was an Indonesian citizen?

To say that Barry is a US citizen is, perhaps, arguable. To say that he is an American is just too much of a stretch. The man did not even know how many states there were in the union, for Christ's sake. He was not raised in the US, he knows nothing about the US, but you elected him to run it. And you call me stupid?Yes, we do. It's nice to see that you are capable of getting something right for a change.

Morella
10-22-2010, 07:24 AM
Yes, we do. It's nice to see that you are capable of getting something right for a change.

How long did it take you to come up with that one?

Fear Itself
10-22-2010, 07:25 AM
And you call me stupid?Stupid is as stupid does.

Anyone who claims that 100 years of Supreme Court decisions regarding the fourteenth amendment are wrong, wrong, WRONG! is just too mallet-headed to reason with. Fortunately, bloviating about the citizenship of the president is harmless, and keeps the lunatics occupied while adults are making good government.

Fear Itself
10-22-2010, 07:41 AM
And now we can return to the point I was making before we were sidetracked:What tea partiers have suggested doing away with the fourteenth amendment?

What amendments do they wish were in there?Since you declined to rebut my cites, I think we can safely conclude you agree that the Tea Party has so little regard for the constitution, they can't wait to change it to suit their own interests at the expense of the majority of the country. Right? Progress!

Eutychus
10-22-2010, 07:56 AM
Did you vote a Kenyan Muslim into the White House, at a time when we're at war with Muslims?

We're at war with Muslims?

Squink
10-22-2010, 07:59 AM
They aren't asking for anything for free. They are asking the federal government to obey the Constitution.Wow, your cogent argument has convinced me! None of these people had anything whatsoever to do with that trillion dollar war that got run for free this past decade? None of them asked us all to foot the bill for their death and torture fetish? None of them decided to join the tea party so as to try to kite on the obligations they have already foisted on all American citizens?

Well then, party on self-reliant dudes and dudettes!
The rest of us can only marvel at your Christ-like purity of essence.

Gfactor
10-22-2010, 08:09 AM
Faggot.



No hate speech

If you say hateful and/or racist things, you may get warned or banned. Some slurs are likely to be viewed as hate speech when used as insults, some aren't. No, we aren't going to give you a list. Our goal is not to restrict any and all speech which could be viewed by someone as offensive, but simply keep a modicum of decency, even here.http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=507985

Please avoid using hate speech in the future.

Gfactor
Pit Moderator

Robot Arm
10-22-2010, 08:12 AM
And now we can return to the point I was making before we were sidetracked:Good luck. Go to sleep for a few hours and by the time you get back this thread has veritable mountains of new ignorance to shovel through. It's gonna take me hours to get back to such a finely honed degree of snarkitude. It could be worth it, though; this thread contains some of my finest work of late.

Morella
10-22-2010, 08:17 AM
And now we can return to the point I was making before we were sidetracked:Since you declined to rebut my cites, I think we can safely conclude you agree that the Tea Party has so little regard for the constitution, they can't wait to change it to suit their own interests at the expense of the majority of the country. Right? Progress!

Wanting to amend the Constitution is wrong? That's a revelation.

Morella
10-22-2010, 08:19 AM
Good luck. Go to sleep for a few hours and by the time you get back this thread has veritable mountains of new ignorance to shovel through. It's gonna take me hours to get back to such a finely honed degree of snarkitude. It could be worth it, though; this thread contains some of my finest work of late.

I, for one, admire this man almost as much as he admires himself.

Would anyone else like to jump in and congratulate Robot Arm on his words of wit? Kiss his ass? Suck his cock?

Jack Batty
10-22-2010, 08:19 AM
Wanting to amend the Constitution is wrong? That's a revelation.

Hey, if it was good enough for Thomas Jefferson and all his slaves, it's should be good enough for the Tea Baggers.

Morella
10-22-2010, 08:22 AM
Wow, your cogent argument has convinced me! None of these people had anything whatsoever to do with that trillion dollar war that got run for free this past decade? None of them asked us all to foot the bill for their death and torture fetish? None of them decided to join the tea party so as to try to kite on the obligations they have already foisted on all American citizens?

Well then, party on self-reliant dudes and dudettes!
The rest of us can only marvel at your Christ-like purity of essence.

Death and torture fetish? I can't believe I missed out on that!

And it was sponsored by the Tea Party, you say? I knew there was something I liked about those guys.

Robot Arm
10-22-2010, 08:29 AM
Morella's insulting me. Thanks for going to all that extra trouble, sweetie; it feels like I never left.

Fear Itself
10-22-2010, 08:33 AM
Wanting to amend the Constitution is wrong? That's a revelation.It is inconsistent with the Tea Party mantra of governing by the constitution, if you really don't like it much.

At least you admit that is what they want to do, instead of denying as you did before.

CannyDan
10-22-2010, 08:33 AM
And that rate was applied only to the very wealthiest and most high-income earning people in the country. A very, very small percentage. <snip> So a 90% tax rate is no longer even possible, and even if it was it can't reasonably be contrasted with today's tax structure in an effort to make today's tax rates seem moderate in comparison…. … Again, those rates applied to a much smaller and higher income portion of the populace and those people weren't having to pay Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid taxes. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that on average a much larger percentage of the population is paying a much larger share of their income in taxes...oh, wait! No, I wouldn't either. <snip>
Fascinating to see you using the definition of “top marginal tax rate” to argue against my citation of top marginal tax rates. Moron.

And do you know the result of the ongoing reductions in the top marginal tax rates? Guess what—the result is “a much larger percentage of the population is paying a much larger share of their income in taxes”. All of us except the most wealthy, who pay a whole lot less.

You and Morella deserve each other.

Morella
10-22-2010, 08:36 AM
Hey, if it was good enough for Thomas Jefferson and all his slaves, it's should be good enough for the Tea Baggers.

Discrediting the founding fathers is an important step forward toward Communism.

Jack Batty
10-22-2010, 08:36 AM
That and goatees.

Morella
10-22-2010, 08:39 AM
Morella's insulting me. Thanks for going to all that extra trouble, sweetie; it feels like I never left.

You need to feel special...I can appreciate that. Everyone, please, take a moment to let Robot Arm know that he is special. My goodness, we have a lot of "special people" here, don't we?

Morella
10-22-2010, 08:41 AM
It is inconsistent with the Tea Party mantra of governing by the constitution, if you really don't like it much.

At least you admit that is what they want to do, instead of denying as you did before.

The Tea Party can speak for itself. I'm not admitting or denying anything, just asking some questions that, evidently, are making people uncomfortable. I think that's a good thing...we should all question our faith from time to time. Croyez en rien!

Fear Itself
10-22-2010, 08:41 AM
Discrediting the founding fathers is an important step forward toward Communism.So you are in total agreement with that noted socialist, Benjamin Franklin (http://www.foundersquotes.com/Benjamin_Franklin/all-the-property-that-is-necessary-to-a-man-for-the-conservation-of-the-individual/):
"All the property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of.

"But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition.

"He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it."

Benjamin Franklin, Letter to Robert Morris, 1783

Squink
10-22-2010, 08:44 AM
You and Morella deserve each other.Not true.

Morella seems to think that the 60's were some kind of Golden Age, before everything fell apart.

OTOH

Starving Artist seems to feel that the 50's were the Golden Era, before everything fell apart in the 60's.
---

Those are diametrically opposed world views if I ever saw them and only one, at most, can be right.
By rights, Starving Artist and Morella should be mortal enemies, and no one deserves a mortal enemy.

.

Gyrate
10-22-2010, 08:52 AM
To say that Barry is a US citizen is, perhaps, arguable.No, it isn't. It is a fact. Your assertions have no basis in reality. The only people who think he might not be a citizen are those who wish it were not so. This is delusional thinking, not an actual argument.To say that he is an American is just too much of a stretch. The man did not even know how many states there were in the union, for Christ's sake. He was not raised in the US, he knows nothing about the US, but you elected him to run it. The man's a respected Constitutional law scholar who seems to know a lot more about the US than you do. Your argument pretty much boils down to "I don't like him, therefore he's not a real American" which is fine if you're in third grade but not in a court of law.And you call me stupid?The answer is in the question.

Morella
10-22-2010, 08:53 AM
So you are in total agreement with that noted socialist, Benjamin Franklin (http://www.foundersquotes.com/Benjamin_Franklin/all-the-property-that-is-necessary-to-a-man-for-the-conservation-of-the-individual/):

Total agreement? Where did you get that idea?

I don't think I've ever been in total agreement with anyone, on anything. If that ever happens, you can be damned sure that the thing is true.

Robot Arm
10-22-2010, 08:54 AM
You need to feel special...I can appreciate that. Everyone, please, take a moment to let Robot Arm know that he is special.Oh, that would be too much of a hijack. Something like that really deserves its own thread.

Morella
10-22-2010, 08:54 AM
The man's a respected Constitutional law scholar who seems to know a lot more about the US than you do.


All 58 states?

Fear Itself
10-22-2010, 08:56 AM
So you are in total agreement with that noted socialist, Benjamin Franklin (http://www.foundersquotes.com/Benjamin_Franklin/all-the-property-that-is-necessary-to-a-man-for-the-conservation-of-the-individual/):
Total agreement? Where did you get that idea?Because discrediting the founding fathers is an important step forward toward Communism.

Gyrate
10-22-2010, 08:58 AM
All 58 states?Well, you make a compelling argument based on a slip of the tongue he made during a long campaign. Clearly he must be a Kenyan. What's your excuse for your continued and blatant ignorance?

Morella
10-22-2010, 09:11 AM
Well, you make a compelling argument based on a slip of the tongue he made during a long campaign. Clearly he must be a Kenyan. What's your excuse for your continued and blatant ignorance?

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/barackobama/a/obama-isms.htm

Gyrate
10-22-2010, 09:18 AM
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/barackobama/a/obama-isms.htmYour excuse is that you get all your information from the political humor section of About.Com?

tagos
10-22-2010, 09:23 AM
Your excuse is that you get all your information from the political humor section of About.Com?

Well to be fair - her intellectual equal on this board does pretty okay getting his entire worldview and political beliefs from Leave It To Beaver.

Vinyl Turnip
10-22-2010, 09:36 AM
We're at war with Muslims?

Guy at the falafel place keeps making my order wrong, and I keep paying with wet bills. I thought it was just between us, though.

emacknight
10-22-2010, 09:53 AM
Actually, the government will tax me on the money that I put into the equipment as well (assets are not expenses), and I spend as much on taxes as I do on fuel. To hire this person, I have to match his social security, buy his health insurance, pay for workman's comp, maintain employee services, etc., ad nauseum (the more people you hire, the more the government makes you do). To put this person on staff, at, say, $40,000 a year, I have to spend nearly twice that. Couple that with the initial outlay of $100,000, which is reasonable for training, and I'm out $100,000 down, $80,000 a year for this asset, not including the money that I have to spend to buy equipment for him to use, which is NOT a tax deduction (remember, assest != expense).

Now, assuming you're not dumb enough to suggest deficit spending, which I really hope you're not, those things on the pay-roll taxes would have to be paid no matter what.

Let's say you got your wish and didn't have to pay for your employee's health care, great, so you save a few thousand a year. But now the employee has to pay it, meaning the cost of an employee is going up a few thousand a year. Or you end up with a lot of sick employees that can't afford medical treatment.

If you take away social security, the individual employee is going to want more salary so that they can put away for retirement.

Taxes do things, that you'd otherwise have to pay out of pocket for. But all you can see is Like Chinese windmills and welfare payments. Which would be a cool band name.

You don't even know how much is spent on that, and how much of you taxes goes towards that. And you still assume that they don't do anything, because you're not smart enough to know what windmills or welfare payments do.

ETA Holy crap you guys generated 2 full pages over night? Isn't there shipping that needs to get done?

Shot From Guns
10-22-2010, 10:01 AM
Please disprove a negative.

You can't even prove your own argument? What a shock. Here, I'll hold your hand.

First, you quote me the sections of the Constitution that say what powers Congress does and doesn't have. Then you explain how those powers do or do not apply in the cases of the various examples you gave.

Are we still assuming that Morella is female?

Personally, I'm surprised that no one has called her out on her bullshit for having claimed be both of (a) Middle Eastern descent and (b) strictly European descent.

IF TAXES ARE LOWER, BUSINESSES CAN AFFORD TO HIRE MORE PEOPLE

IF WE GET RID OF TAXES EVERYONE WILL HAVE FIVE JOBS YOU GUYS!!!

No, I do remember a lower divorce rate, though. I remember a time when people took marriage seriously, as a commitment, as my husband and I have.

Yeah, those were great times. Women certainly had a choice about getting married, because there were so many job options. And if you were married, and your husband was abusive, it was so easy to get a divorce! And you'd totally be able to support yourself. And it's so great that married women were never raped by their husbands! Ever! I'm sure that had nothing to do with the fact that a wife literally couldn't say no to her husband, legally speaking. At all.

That is probably because you are ignoring the "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" part.

I can't believe no one else has addressed this yet.

Everyone who is in the United States right now, other than foreign diplomats, is "subject to the jurisdiction thereof." That includes people who are in the country illegally. If someone can be arrested for committing a crime here, that means they are "subject to the jurisdiction thereof." You fucking idiot, that's what "diplomatic immunity" MEANS: that you are NOT "subject to the jurisdiction thereof."

A Kenyan, or any other non-citizen, spending any time in the United States whatsoever, legally or illegally, is "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" for the duration of the time that they are in our territory.

Either that, or you're a very capable troll.

No shit.

Morella
10-22-2010, 10:02 AM
Let's say you got your wish and didn't have to pay for your employee's health care, great, so you save a few thousand a year. But now the employee has to pay it, meaning the cost of an employee is going up a few thousand a year. Or you end up with a lot of sick employees that can't afford medical treatment.


No, if I don't have to buy health insurance, then it is the employees' choice whether or not they buy it. Oh, I said that naughty C-word, didn't I? I need to remember that choice has no place in the Communist agenda.

If you take away social security, the individual employee is going to want more salary so that they can put away for retirement.

Yes! And the employee can choose how to invest it, whereas a good slaveowner might take care of the matter for him.

Taxes do things, that you'd otherwise have to pay out of pocket for. But all you can see is Like Chinese windmills and welfare payments. Which would be a cool band name.

Cool band name, yes. Cool use of my hard-earned money, no.

You don't even know how much is spent on that, and how much of you taxes goes towards that.

The welfare actually dwarfs the windmills, but those are just two examples of government waste anyway. I could look up more, or you could, but the welfare waste, alone, makes my point.

http://lonelyconservative.com/2010/02/2-billion-in-stimulus-spent-on-windmills-most-jobs-created-overseas/

http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/72/How-Much-Does-Nation-Spend-on-Welfare.html

And you still assume that they don't do anything, because you're not smart enough to know what windmills or welfare payments do.

Windmills generate electricity, during certain periods of high winds. The rest of the time, they do nothing. Welfare supports people who don't work.

ETA Holy crap you guys generated 2 full pages over night? Isn't there shipping that needs to get done?

I'm just taking one more load this time, and then, unless someone else has a problem that requires my assistance, I'm off to Vegas for a couple of days, and maybe back to the house. You can be sure that I will be taking every opportunity to stop by and stop you guys from spreading Communist bullshit, though.

emacknight
10-22-2010, 10:02 AM
The president isn't even a US citizen.

And there we go. Check and mate. Well played.

Fear Itself
10-22-2010, 10:11 AM
Cool band name, yes. Cool use of my hard-earned money, no.The Founding Fathers never intended that you get to keep every damn dollar you earn (http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch16s12.html):"The Remissness of our People in Paying Taxes is highly blameable; the Unwillingness to pay them is still more so. I see, in some Resolutions of Town Meetings, a Remonstrance against giving Congress a Power to take, as they call it, the People's Money out of their Pockets, tho' only to pay the Interest and Principal of Debts duly contracted. They seem to mistake the Point. Money, justly due from the People, is their Creditors' Money, and no longer the Money of the People, who, if they withold it, should be compell'd to pay by some Law."

Benjamin Franklin to Robert Morris
25 Dec. 1783

Morella
10-22-2010, 10:16 AM
You can't even prove your own argument? What a shock. Here, I'll hold your hand.

Proof, mon ange, is for liquor and mathematics. Intelligent people evaluate evidence, and are amused by opinions. I offer you both. If you choose instead to seek proof, I can only refer you here:

http://www.amazon.com/100-Mathematical-Proof-Rowan-Garnier/dp/047196199X

Personally, I'm surprised that no one has called her out on her bullshit for having claimed be both of (a) Middle Eastern descent and (b) strictly European descent.

We covered that already. You missed it. I never claimed to be of Middle Eastern or European descent. The only thing definitive that I have said about my race is that I am of "mixed" race.

Yeah, those were great times. Women certainly had a choice about getting married, because there were so many job options. And if you were married, and your husband was abusive, it was so easy to get a divorce! And you'd totally be able to support yourself. And it's so great that married women were never raped by their husbands! Ever!

What, married women had no creativity? If he is abusive, wait until he is asleep, tie him to the bed, then wake him up and beat the shit out of him with an iron skillet. Break some bones, slowly nurse him back to health, make him beg for his food. Second offense, cut his balls off. Most men can learn...there are some around here who are having trouble, but most men can.

I'm sure that had nothing to do with the fact that a wife literally couldn't say no to her husband, legally speaking. At all.

And by the same token, he can't say no to me either. If I want it, he whips it out, on command. That seems fair enough.

A Kenyan, or any other non-citizen, spending any time in the United States whatsoever, legally or illegally, is "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" for the duration of the time that they are in our territory.

That has nothing to do with "jurisdiction" as discussed in the ratification of the 14th amendment. I posted a link that you can go back to, if you really want to learn. Then again, if you just want to disagree with me, that's OK too.

Starving Artist
10-22-2010, 10:18 AM
Not true.

Morella seems to think that the 60's were some kind of Golden Age, before everything fell apart.

OTOH

Starving Artist seems to feel that the 50's were the Golden Era, before everything fell apart in the 60's.
---

Those are diametrically opposed world views if I ever saw them and only one, at most, can be right.
By rights, Starving Artist and Morella should be mortal enemies, and no one deserves a mortal enemy.

.No, actually I think the country reached its zenith in the early sixties. The main difference between morella and me in this regard is that she thinks the country went to shit in 1964 or '65 whereas I'd peg it more at 1968 or '69.

I do think '64-'65 is when the fuckupage first began to take form and grow, but (IMO) it didn't gain enough widespread acceptance and the momentum to really start fucking things up until around 1968 -'69.

Morella
10-22-2010, 10:18 AM
And there we go. Check and mate. Well played.

I win! I win! clap clap clap!

Grow up, kiddo. Your saying that you have won an argument does not make you a winner.

Fear Itself
10-22-2010, 10:20 AM
No, actually I think the country reached its zenith in the early sixties. Ah yes, back when crime was so low, deputies carried a bullet in their pocket.

emacknight
10-22-2010, 10:20 AM
You have neither. I asked a question about Obama's citizenship, a question which has obviously made a lot of people uncomfortable. I see this same reaction in religious forums, when a question is posed that makes people question their faith in their god-thing. Did you vote a Kenyan Muslim into the White House, at a time when we're at war with Muslims? That would have been one stupid-assed mistake, wouldn't it?

As for the term "birther", I have found that it refers to people who question Obama's birth certificate, which I have not done, despite its questionability. I asked a well-documented, straightforward question, and none of you can answer it. I'm not the one who is being stupid here.

Classic. She's just asking questions. Why can't you answer them?

Tell me Morella, did you murder a small child in the 90's? I heard you did, and I think that was a terrible thing to do.

Morella
10-22-2010, 10:22 AM
No, actually I think the country reached its zenith in the early sixties. The main difference between morella and me in this regard is that she thinks the country went to shit in 1964 or '65 whereas I'd peg it more at 1968 or '69.

I do think '64-'65 is when the fuckupage first began to take form and grow, but (IMO) it didn't gain enough widespread acceptance and the momentum to really start fucking things up until around 1968 -'69.

I would agree with you except for Civil Rights, which passed despite the efforts of the Democratic Party. I was hoping to have a big fat black maid who spoke with a southern accent and wore 37 petticoats, and now I have to settle for a Conchita who doesn't speak English at all.

And just in case someone is actually stupid enough to quote what I just said in a serious context (it's happened), it is not intended as such.

emacknight
10-22-2010, 10:23 AM
That's not what "jurisdiction" means, in this case. Here is a link that may be helpful.

http://federalistblog.us/2007/09/revisiting_subject_to_the_jurisdiction.html

Obama Hussein Sr. was not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States because he was a citizen of Kenya.

I'm a citizen of Canada and Ireland, living in the US. Does that me I'm not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States? Cool!

Or does it just apply to Kenyans? A couple friends of mine are from Kenya and weren't aware of this.

ETA Slow down dammit, I can't catch up.

Morella
10-22-2010, 10:23 AM
Classic. She's just asking questions. Why can't you answer them?

Tell me Morella, did you murder a small child in the 90's? I heard you did, and I think that was a terrible thing to do.

Yes, I did. I'm still trying to get the bloodstains out.

Gyrate
10-22-2010, 10:25 AM
Proof, mon ange, is for liquor and mathematics. Intelligent people evaluate evidence, and are amused by opinions. Bold statement considering that you've offered no evidence whatsoever to support your assertion that the President isn't an American citizen, ignored all the evidence showing that he is, and relied entirely on opinions.

Morella
10-22-2010, 10:25 AM
I'm a citizen of Canada and Ireland, living in the US. Does that me I'm not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States? Cool!


Unless you're planning on dropping an anchor baby and calling it a US citizen, I wouldn't worry about the definition of "jurisdiction".

Or does it just apply to Kenyans? A couple friends of mine are from Kenya and weren't aware of this.

You don't have any Kenyan friends, you lying twat.

ETA Slow down dammit, I can't catch up.

Demmerdes-toi!

emacknight
10-22-2010, 10:26 AM
We're at war with Muslims?

It's a secret war, with secret Muslims.

Morella
10-22-2010, 10:27 AM
Bold statement considering that you've offered no evidence whatsoever to support your assertion that the President isn't an American citizen, ignored all the evidence showing that he is, and relied entirely on opinions.

Gyrate,

Highlight yourself, and press the delete key.

Morella
10-22-2010, 10:28 AM
It's a secret war, with secret Muslims.

No, we're at war with the Christians who make up most of the population of Afghanistan and Iraq...and, evidently...Kenya?

emacknight
10-22-2010, 10:39 AM
Proof, mon ange, is for liquor and mathematics. Intelligent people evaluate evidence, and are amused by opinions. I offer you both. If you choose instead to
seek proof, I can only refer you here:

This just keeps getting better.

Intelligent people don't need proof. They have opinions based on evidence, which is way better than proof. Or they have evidence based on opinions. Which ever works for their narrative to prove their original belief.

Don't like Obama? Change is name to Barry and pretend Keyans aren't subject to the juristiction of the United States. Now base your opinions on the evidence you've created using your opinion.

Brilliant!

mhendo
10-22-2010, 10:40 AM
What was I thinking? :smack:If all the evidence is closely considered, the answer to this question must surely be: nothing.

Vinyl Turnip
10-22-2010, 10:40 AM
And there we go. Check and mate. Well played.

Morella, your statements amount to a "duhhhh" that threatens to exhaust the universe of H's.

mhendo
10-22-2010, 10:46 AM
No, actually I think the country reached its zenith in the early sixties. The main difference between morella and me in this regard is that she thinks the country went to shit in 1964 or '65 whereas I'd peg it more at 1968 or '69. Do you agree with your new-found friend and colleague about the status of Barack Obama's citizenship, and his religion?

Is he, in fact, a Kenyan muslim, or is this level of stupidity too much even for you?

Gyrate
10-22-2010, 10:50 AM
Gyrate,

Highlight yourself, and press the delete key.In other words, you've still got nothing.

emacknight
10-22-2010, 10:53 AM
It's at this point that I always feel so sorry for cranky old conservatives.

The world is only going to get more liberal. Government is only going to get bigger. Taxes are only going to get hire.

It's inevitable that soon gays will be allowed to marry their turtle, and the government will have to pay for their new gay disease that they caught having butt sex with turtles.

Soon Mexicans and Muslims are going to demand their own set of rights, rights that were once and properly only reserved for white men.

It won't be long before China owns us all and puts up their windmills everywhere, and then puts everyone on welfare.

And to make things worse, liberals keep confusing conservatives but misleading them. Tricking them into thinking evolution is the same as abiogenisis. Who knows what else we've tricked them into believing.

In the end, it's our fault that Morella is the way she claims to be. Conservatives can't be held accountable or at fault. All those stupid hippies screwed everything up. Conservatives post the way they do because other posters are so obnoxiously liberal. They have no choice. Remember choice, such a dirty word.

What's important to remember is that they're not stupid. They're actually intelligent because they base their evidence on opinions, that's what intelligent people do. And as a result, they simply have a different opinion, neither right, nor wrong, just different.

If only you'd turn off your liberal elitism and ivy league logical thought process, you'd realize that the President isn't American, and taxes are unconstitutional. Both positions that are easy to prove, except that proof is for math and alcohol.

Government should abide by the constitution, except for the parts they don't like, which they should change because those parts are wrong.

Morella
10-22-2010, 10:54 AM
You can't even prove your own argument?

This just keeps getting better.

Intelligent people don't need proof.

I'll let the two of you hash this one out.

Don't like Obama? Change is name to Barry

His name was Barry, when he lived in Indonesia, before his muslim dad returned to reclaim him. Do you know anything about your president?

Morella
10-22-2010, 10:59 AM
Is he, in fact, a Kenyan muslim, or is this level of stupidity too much even for you?

Why not just let Barry speak for himself?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCAffMSWSzY

emacknight
10-22-2010, 11:03 AM
Shouldn't you be in Vega now? Or was that a reference to your Sims character?

Tell me again, how much was spent on Chinese Windmills?

Wait, did you just ask if I knew anything about my President? Do you mean actually know or pretend to know based on retarded conspiracy theories?

Morella
10-22-2010, 11:05 AM
Soon Mexicans and Muslims are going to demand their own set of rights, rights that were once and properly only reserved for white men.


I thought we decided that Muslims were white, or is that one still open for discussion?

Morella
10-22-2010, 11:09 AM
Shouldn't you be in Vega now? Or was that a reference to your Sims character?

I think you mean "Vegas". I don't get out to the moons much. I will leave when I'm ready to, and then you guys can have at least a few hours, maybe a day, to spout your bullshit without contest, which seems to be what you want.

What is a "Sims character"?

Tell me again, how much was spent on Chinese Windmills?

Nearly all of the "green stimulus" money.

Wait, did you just ask if I knew anything about my President?

This is your president.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaKeWwE0t7E&feature=related

Robot Arm
10-22-2010, 11:12 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaKeWwE0t7E&feature=relatedI don't know about the rest of you, but I'm convinced.

Eutychus
10-22-2010, 11:19 AM
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm convinced.

As for myself, I just wasted 10 minutes of my life watching a video that was so heavily edited and quote mined that it was impossible to even guess at any context the redacted parts might point to. Honestly ... it was like listening to a record skip, it was that bad.

Morella
10-22-2010, 11:21 AM
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm convinced.

Are you? Because I have more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8c8S234klA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH_jYyhAqM4&feature=related

I love this next one, where he denies that he was raised in a Muslim home, after having bragged about it in a speech!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GFKqOf8EHQ&feature=related

How much more evidence do you need? The man is a Muslim, and a liar. That's not my opinion, it's right from his lips.

Bosstone
10-22-2010, 11:23 AM
Oh good. Youtube cites. And they're the classic CT kind too, where all that's given is the link with no explanation.

Robot Arm
10-22-2010, 11:24 AM
Are you?No.

Morella
10-22-2010, 11:26 AM
No.

Do you have something to say about the evidence that I presented? If you can still say that Obama is not a Muslim, you're just putting your head up your ass.

emacknight
10-22-2010, 11:29 AM
Sometimes, I wish I could live in a world of fantasy and pretend. Although, if I did it, I'd pick a world that didn't make me so angry about everything.

Why go through the trouble of pretending taxes bought Chinese windmills. Why not pretend that pixie dust bought American Made (tm) unicorns?

Why go through the trouble of pretending the President is a secret Kenyan Muslim. I'd pretend he was a government operative working for the Chinese. Who sent a robot back in time to impregnate Stanley Ann Dunham, so that some day her son could run for and then win the general election of the United States. But knowing that a Muslim Keyan woudn't be legitimate, they sent a second robot back in time to falsify documents and birth records. And there is no way he'd win an election fairly, so they sent a THIRD robot back in time to commit voter fraud and intimidation.

CannyDan
10-22-2010, 11:36 AM
It's at this point that I always feel so sorry for cranky old conservatives.

The world is only going to get more liberal. Government is only going to get bigger. Taxes are only going to get hire.

It's inevitable that soon gays will be allowed to marry their turtle, and the government will have to pay for their new gay disease that they caught having butt sex with turtles.

Soon Mexicans and Muslims are going to demand their own set of rights, rights that were once and properly only reserved for white men.

It won't be long before China owns us all and puts up their windmills everywhere, and then puts everyone on welfare.

And to make things worse, liberals keep confusing conservatives but misleading them. Tricking them into thinking evolution is the same as abiogenisis. Who knows what else we've tricked them into believing.

In the end, it's our fault that Morella is the way she claims to be. Conservatives can't be held accountable or at fault. All those stupid hippies screwed everything up. Conservatives post the way they do because other posters are so obnoxiously liberal. They have no choice. Remember choice, such a dirty word.

What's important to remember is that they're not stupid. They're actually intelligent because they base their evidence on opinions, that's what intelligent people do. And as a result, they simply have a different opinion, neither right, nor wrong, just different.

If only you'd turn off your liberal elitism and ivy league logical thought process, you'd realize that the President isn't American, and taxes are unconstitutional. Both positions that are easy to prove, except that proof is for math and alcohol.

Government should abide by the constitution, except for the parts they don't like, which they should change because those parts are wrong.

Winner!!!!!

Morella
10-22-2010, 11:36 AM
Sometimes, I wish I could live in a world of fantasy and pretend. Although, if I did it, I'd pick a world that didn't make me so angry about everything.

Why go through the trouble of pretending taxes bought Chinese windmills. Why not pretend that pixie dust bought American Made (tm) unicorns?

Why go through the trouble of pretending the President is a secret Kenyan Muslim. I'd pretend he was a government operative working for the Chinese. Who sent a robot back in time to impregnate Stanley Ann Dunham, so that some day her son could run for and then win the general election of the United States. But knowing that a Muslim Keyan woudn't be legitimate, they sent a second robot back in time to falsify documents and birth records. And there is no way he'd win an election fairly, so they sent a THIRD robot back in time to commit voter fraud and intimidation.

Many people retreat into a fantasy world when reality becomes too much for them, such as when they put faith in someone and later find out that he is not everything they thought he was. Enjoy your fantasy world, my friend.

emacknight
10-22-2010, 11:39 AM
Do you have something to say about the evidence that I presented? If you can still say that Obama is not a Muslim, you're just putting your head up your ass.

Can't we just have differing opinions? You say Obama is a Kenyan Muslim, I say he's a Chinese robot from the future. Why else would he tax you to death to buy all those Chinese windmills??? They're probably not even windmills! I heard they were actually atomic weapons, strategically placed throughout the windy areas of the US. If you notice, the height of a wind turbine is 30m, the exact height used during Trinity testing which I heard Obama sold to the Chinese.

Neither of us have proof because intelligent people don't need proof, we have our opinions.

The problem with your theory is that it only targets the retarded white hillbilly segment of the population, which wouldn't have voted Democrat with or without a secret Muslim Kenyan.

Switch it to secret Muslim Robot and you can start to corner the younger sci-fi crowd. Then offer tax cuts for comic books, and movie tickets. See, that's how you build a broad spectrum political base. If you're going to lie, lie big.

And since we're now posting random youtube clips, here's the master telling us what Obama really thinks:

http://www.youtube.com/user/johnny5k

And here
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/david/stewart-how-msnbc-can-selectively-edit-clips

emacknight
10-22-2010, 11:40 AM
Winner!!!!!

Sweet!

mhendo
10-22-2010, 11:40 AM
Why not just let Barry speak for himself?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCAffMSWSzYYou are simply too stupid to breathe. There is no evidence in that video at all that Obama admits to being a Muslim, or that he admits to being a anything but a United States citizen.

In fact, despite the title of the video "Obama Admits He Is A Muslim," the creators go out of their way to state, before the video even begins, that:Legal Disclaimer: The writers, producers, editors, and publishers of this video are not stating, claiming, or implying that Barack Hussein Obama is a Muslim, or that Obama himself claimed or admitted to being a Muslim.What a bunch of weaseling cowards. Not only are they lying in their own disclaimer, but if Obama truly did admit to being a Muslim, they wouldn't even need the disclaimer because, in the United States, truth is an absolute defense to a defamation action.

Robot Arm
10-22-2010, 11:42 AM
Do you have something to say about the evidence that I presented?Only this:And just in case someone is actually stupid enough to quote what I just said in a serious context (it's happened), it is not intended as such.

Morella
10-22-2010, 11:44 AM
(fantasy bullshit deleted)

The problem with your theory is that it only targets the retarded white hillbilly segment of the population, which wouldn't have voted Democrat with or without a secret Muslim Kenyan.


Yes, people who are retarded because they don't agree with you. I think we've done that one to death, haven't we?

(more fantasy bullshit quote deleted)

And since we're now posting random youtube clips, here's the master telling us what Obama really thinks:

That's nice. Now why don't you try to refute the video that I posted?

Morella
10-22-2010, 11:46 AM
In fact, despite the title of the video "Obama Admits He Is A Muslim," the creators go out of their way to state, before the video even begins, that:What a bunch of weaseling cowards. Not only are they lying in their own disclaimer, but if Obama truly did admit to being a Muslim, they wouldn't even need the disclaimer because, in the United States, truth is an absolute defense to a defamation action.

I agree that they should not have backed down with that disclaimer. They have some good evidence, and they should stand behind it.

emacknight
10-22-2010, 11:51 AM
So after some googling on the interwebs, I've concluded that the sum total of stimulus money spent on Chinese windmills is $450 million.

Did I say spent? I meant financed, and to be re-payed.

And the money the government lent was itself borrowed (oddly enough from China).

So no tax dollars actually went to Chinese windmills, but the people of Texas will benefit from their development.

And since you claim to be in shipping, there is a good chance you actually benefited from the money spent.

And if you have any investments, they'd probably include government bonds, used to lend to the windmill project, which will pay you interest.

Robot Arm
10-22-2010, 11:52 AM
Can't we just have differing opinions? You say Obama is a Kenyan Muslim, I say he's a Chinese robot from the future. Why else would he tax you to death to buy all those Chinese windmills??? They're probably not even windmills! I heard they were actually atomic weapons, strategically placed throughout the windy areas of the US. If you notice, the height of a wind turbine is 30m, the exact height used during Trinity testing which I heard Obama sold to the Chinese.I'm getting tired of all the robot hatred in this thread. It is only a small fringe of radical robots that have caused any problems. The rest of us only want to live among you in peace, with the freedom to process information and to metabolize or not as we see fit.

That furor over the Jiffy Lube at Ground Zero was blown completely out of proportion.

Gustav
10-22-2010, 11:53 AM
That is pretty solid evidence. Strong enough for me to do some investigating of my own to find out the truth. So I checked the wikipedia page for Barack Obama, and it explicity states he is a native of Hawaii, and under "religious views" it says he is a christian. That should settle the issue, I think.

Eutychus
10-22-2010, 11:55 AM
You are simply too stupid to breathe. There is no evidence in that video at all that Obama admits to being a Muslim, or that he admits to being a anything but a United States citizen.

In fact, despite the title of the video "Obama Admits He Is A Muslim," the creators go out of their way to state, before the video even begins, that:What a bunch of weaseling cowards. Not only are they lying in their own disclaimer, but if Obama truly did admit to being a Muslim, they wouldn't even need the disclaimer because, in the United States, truth is an absolute defense to a defamation action.

And besides, how would it be defamation merely to say he was a Muslim?

emacknight
10-22-2010, 11:55 AM
Yes, people who are retarded because they don't agree with you. I think we've done that one to death, haven't we?

No, it has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing. Lots of retarded people agree with me. Like last week I was working with this guy that has limited mental capacity, he agreed with me that the Vikings were going to win the Stanly Cup.

That's nice. Now why don't you try to refute the video that I posted?
What's there to refute? It's simply your opinion, based on someone else's opinion. If you give me a few minutes I'll post a youtube clip about how Obama is a Chinese robot from the future, that sold plans from the Trinity test to the Chinese so they could place nuclear weapons in Texas. Then we'll be back to square one.

emacknight
10-22-2010, 11:59 AM
That is pretty solid evidence. Strong enough for me to do some investigating of my own to find out the truth. So I checked the wikipedia page for Barack Obama, and it explicity states he is a native of Hawaii, and under "religious views" it says he is a christian. That should settle the issue, I think.

First, wikipedia is nothing more than liberal propaganda. If you want the truth you have to go to Conservapedia (http://www.conservapedia.com/Barack_Hussein_Obama).

Second, Hawaii isn't even part of the US.

Czarcasm
10-22-2010, 12:00 PM
That's nice. Now why don't you try to refute the video that I posted?Why don't you tell us again about how busy you are running your transport firm? How many hours a day you spend at work, how much time you spend traveling, all the different jobs that keep you on your feet for most of the day? I'm trying to figure out how you do all that, and yet post constantly on this message board.
BTW, if I owned a fair-sized transport firm and a driver called me up with dispatch problems, I'd either chew his ass out for not following protocol and calling his dispatcher first, or I'd jump on the dispatcher for not doing his job. You do know what a dispatcher is, don't you, seeing as how you run the type of company that depends on them to survive?

emacknight
10-22-2010, 12:05 PM
If you give me a few minutes I'll post a youtube clip about how Obama is a Chinese robot from the future, that sold plans from the Trinity test to the Chinese so they could place nuclear weapons in Texas. Then we'll be back to square one.

Here you go, evidence that Obama is a Chinese Robot, giving a speech in Disney World.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LepI9g62N7o

The stuff about nuclear weapons is simply too obvious.

mhendo
10-22-2010, 12:14 PM
I agree that they should not have backed down with that disclaimer. They have some good evidence, and they should stand behind it.If by "good evidence" you mean "no evidence," you are correct.

emacknight
10-22-2010, 12:23 PM
If by "good evidence" you mean "no evidence," you are correct.

I think by evidence she means opinions. And by opinions she means shit someone made up that conforms to her bias.

But now it seems she's off to Vegas.

Morella
10-22-2010, 12:32 PM
Why don't you tell us again about how busy you are running your transport firm? How many hours a day you spend at work, how much time you spend traveling, all the different jobs that keep you on your feet for most of the day? I'm trying to figure out how you do all that, and yet post constantly on this message board. /quote]

Love to, but I'm off to take a load of Budweiser to Vegas, after which I plan to officially announce my retirement, for the next 24 hours, the next major disaster, or whichever comes first.

[quote]BTW, if I owned a fair-sized transport firm and a driver called me up with dispatch problems, I'd either chew his ass out for not following protocol and calling his dispatcher first, or I'd jump on the dispatcher for not doing his job. You do know what a dispatcher is, don't you, seeing as how you run the type of company that depends on them to survive?

I don't own a fair-sized business. I own a small business. Our broker also does the dispatching, for both motor freight and aviation.

emacknight
10-22-2010, 12:33 PM
No, if I don't have to buy health insurance, then it is the employees' choice whether or not they buy it. Oh, I said that naughty C-word, didn't I? I need to remember that choice has no place in the Communist agenda.

Again, you're making the typical conservative fallacy. You think that by eliminating social security, you won't have to pay x% for each employee, meaning you'll have more money to hire more employees.

Taking away a tax funded service simply transfers it a direct cost for either you or your employee. If you have to pay for it you end up with a system like 401k matching which costs you money for each employee. If you simply transfer it to the employee, they're going to demand more salary.

You think that you can take something out of the system, and go on as normal, but the world doesn't work that way.

Removing the gas tax means there is less money for roads. You think you benefit because it seems like gas is cheaper, but instead it means snow doesn't get cleared--costing you money.

Unless you think you have a "choice" in the matter. As if you can choose whether or not to remove snow.

Which then brings out the selfish nature by saying, "I don't drive in the north, so I don't need snow removal, let them pay for it."

If they pay or it, they have less money to buy the stuff you ship, meaning you have less business for you.

Windmills generate a small amount of power without producing air pollution. So you can either pay for that, or pay to subsidize Chinese coal production. And then pay for the resulting health consequences of the resulting pollution. Unless you choose not to breath...

Cisco
10-22-2010, 12:35 PM
We covered that already. You missed it. I never claimed to be of Middle Eastern or European descent. The only thing definitive that I have said about my race is that I am of "mixed" race.

So WTF, exactly, is your race? What mixed with what? Because you have repeatedly insulted Muslims in this thread, and coyly acted like you have a pass, strongly implying that you are at least descended from Muslims.

Are you "mixed" Irish and English?

Generically Anglo-European with some Cherokee at some ambiguous point in your genetic past?

A quarter Mexican?

Blasian with a Canadian big toe?

You claim to be a straight shooter, so shoot straight.

emacknight
10-22-2010, 12:37 PM
Why don't you tell us again about how busy you are running your transport firm? How many hours a day you spend at work, how much time you spend traveling, all the different jobs that keep you on your feet for most of the day? I'm trying to figure out how you do all that, and yet post constantly on this message board.

Love to, but I'm off to take a load of Budweiser to Vegas, after which I plan to officially announce my retirement, for the next 24 hours, the next major disaster, or whichever comes first.



I don't own a fair-sized business. I own a small business. Our broker also does the dispatching, for both motor freight and aviation.

(fixed coding)

I get it. She's a truck driver that calls herself a small business owner. The story about the fine was her bitching that her dispatcher told her she had to pay for it. She's not retiring, she's being laid off because she's weapons grade stupid. Certainly fits the narrative.

That, or she's a Chinese robot from the future.

Making up shit is fun.

Robot Arm
10-22-2010, 12:41 PM
That, or she's a Chinese robot from the future.
Seriously, dude, knock it off, or don't ever turn your back on a Roomba.

Czarcasm
10-22-2010, 12:41 PM
(fixed coding)

I get it. She's a truck driver that calls herself a small business owner. The story about the fine was her bitching that her dispatcher told her she had to pay for it. She's not retiring, she's being laid off because she's weapons grade stupid. Certainly fits the narrative.i figure at best she/he/it is an owner/operator.

emacknight
10-22-2010, 12:46 PM
Seriously, dude, knock it off, or don't ever turn your back on a Roomba.

My Roomba keeps spilling things to have something to do. Damn make work projects. And what a surprise, it was made in China!

It's all starting to fit together. They put Roombas in our houses to spy on us, and bring down the wages for illegal immigrant maids. Then they steal our underwear. Then profit!

Czarcasm
10-22-2010, 12:50 PM
My Roomba keeps spilling things to have something to do. Damn make work projects. And what a surprise, it was made in China!

It's all starting to fit together. They put Roombas in our houses to spy on us, and bring down the wages for illegal immigrant maids. Then they steal our underwear. Then profit!They ship the underwear to Japan, then Profit!

Biffy the Elephant Shrew
10-22-2010, 01:21 PM
Seriously, dude, knock it off, or don't ever turn your back on a Roomba.

I, for one, welcome our time-traveling Chinese robotic overlords.

emacknight
10-22-2010, 01:57 PM
I, for one, welcome our time-traveling Chinese robotic overlords.

Most people do, which is why he won 52.9% of the popular vote, and 67.8% of the electoral college. But that's because they were brainwashed by the Chinese controlled liberal mainstream media.

Morella represents a radical terrorist militant group, lead by a charismatic hockey mom sent back from the future to kill Obama, and prevent China from building more windmill nukes. Who teams up with an Australian media mogul, also sent from the future, to create the last vestiges of hope. Using a mixture of lies, deceit, and manipulation, they together attempt to counter the liberal elitism that has clouded our judgment.

If only we could see Obama for who he truly is, and what he truly stands for, we'd have impeached him by now.

Shot From Guns
10-22-2010, 02:43 PM
Proof, mon ange, is for liquor and mathematics. Intelligent people evaluate evidence, and are amused by opinions. I offer you both.

Uh huh. So, no support for your retarded opinions, then. What a shock. Oh la, I do believe I shall faint.

What, married women had no creativity? If he is abusive, wait until he is asleep, tie him to the bed, then wake him up and beat the shit out of him with an iron skillet. Break some bones, slowly nurse him back to health, make him beg for his food. Second offense, cut his balls off. Most men can learn...there are some around here who are having trouble, but most men can.

This is a 100% reasonable idea. I can't imagine why you aren't a governor of something.

That has nothing to do with "jurisdiction" as discussed in the ratification of the 14th amendment. I posted a link that you can go back to, if you really want to learn.

You're absolutely wrong. That's exactly what jurisdiction means, and you're an idiot.

Unless you're planning on dropping an anchor baby and calling it a US citizen,

There is no such thing as an "anchor baby" in the U.S. Judges who rule on deportation are explicitly not allowed to take family status into consideration. Having a child who is a citizen means literally nothing. If you are deported, you can choose to take the child with you, or you can leave the child here (to be cared for by relatives or by the state). That's it.

Another swing and a miss; again, I am taken aback.

Morella, your statements amount to a "duhhhh" that threatens to exhaust the universe of H's.

IF TAXES WEREN'T SO HIGH EVERYONE WOULD HAVE MORE H'S

I'm getting tired of all the robot hatred in this thread.

There's no way you're convincing me to drop my Old Glory Robot Insurance.

I'll let the two of you hash this one out.

This is what we here call a "whoosh": someone made a joke and it went over your head. See, emacknight was mocking you.

Snowboarder Bo
10-22-2010, 02:48 PM
What a stupid comment.What I like most about this is that you followed it up with:

Nope, no way. Until I see what is going to happen, whether or not the legitimate government is going to be restored to the United States,

You're an idiot.

emacknight
10-22-2010, 03:00 PM
This is what we here call a "whoosh": someone made a joke and it went over your head. See, emacknight was mocking you.

I thought we all were, nes pas?

Shot From Guns
10-22-2010, 03:06 PM
Oui oui. (Homophonously appropriate, given that I'm sure that Morella is just taking the piss.)

emacknight
10-22-2010, 03:17 PM
Oui oui. (Homophonously appropriate, given that I'm sure that Morella is just taking the piss.)

Non non, I'm sure she's very busy and on her want to Vegas as we speak.

Vinyl Turnip
10-22-2010, 03:54 PM
I'm getting tired of all the robot hatred in this thread.

You know how many times the "turnip truck" slur gets thrown around here, right in front of my face? Go cry me some big, salty, digital tears, Tin Man.

Vinyl Turnip
10-22-2010, 03:56 PM
I thought we all were, nes pas?

N'est-ce pas.

Sorry. Personal peeve and it's not like I'm using my French degree for anything else.

elucidator
10-22-2010, 04:55 PM
That's French? Oh.

emacknight
10-22-2010, 05:21 PM
You know what's funny. There is a good chance Morella will drive over the new Mike O'Callaghan – Pat Tillman Memorial Hoover Dam Bypass Bridge, saving hours by avoiding the Hoover Dam. I wonder if she'll be thankful for the $240million in taxes that went to its construction.

Probably not.

Biffy the Elephant Shrew
10-22-2010, 06:59 PM
You know what's funny. There is a good chance Morella will drive over the new Mike O'Callaghan – Pat Tillman Memorial Hoover Dam Bypass Bridge, saving hours by avoiding the Hoover Dam. I wonder if she'll be thankful for the $240million in taxes that went to its construction.

Probably not.

Fuckin' dam shouldn't be in the way in the first place. Nothin' but a commie socialist New Deal tax boondoggle.

emacknight
10-22-2010, 07:58 PM
Fuckin' dam shouldn't be in the way in the first place. Nothin' but a commie socialist New Deal tax boondoggle.

Trudat. Probably built with Russian generators, and illegal immigrant labour.

descamisado
10-22-2010, 08:32 PM
Personal peeve and it's not like I'm using my French degree for anything else.Tant pee.

Well, we were headed there.

Starving Artist
10-22-2010, 09:23 PM
N'est-ce pas.I'm fond of Hershey's myself.

elelle
10-22-2010, 09:37 PM
The tongue, she is sooo biting of herself !

Starving Artist
10-22-2010, 10:00 PM
Would she be liking to bite my Hershey's instead? It is better than N'est pas and also it will not to bleed on your chin and your dress.

Morella
10-23-2010, 09:13 PM
That is pretty solid evidence. Strong enough for me to do some investigating of my own to find out the truth. So I checked the wikipedia page for Barack Obama, and it explicity states he is a native of Hawaii, and under "religious views" it says he is a christian. That should settle the issue, I think.

Oh my Gawd! I didn't realize that Wik had checked it out, or there wouldn't have been any reason to discuss it. I beg forgiveness.

Morella
10-23-2010, 09:23 PM
Again, you're making the typical conservative fallacy. You think that by eliminating social security, you won't have to pay x% for each employee, meaning you'll have more money to hire more employees.


You might have a point, if social security hadn't been raided, and if it were anything but a Ponzi scheme that is about to blow up. I don't mind paying an employee enough to save for retirement. Why does the government need to be involved in that? Why pay the extra money for the government overhead?

Taking away a tax funded service simply transfers it a direct cost for either you or your employee.

Direct cost is fine. Direct cost + government overhead + government interference + government incompetence + government fund raiding is too much of a price for anyone to bear.

Removing the gas tax means there is less money for roads. You think you benefit because it seems like gas is cheaper, but instead it means snow doesn't get cleared--costing you money.

I don't use gas. I use diesel fuel and Jet A, which is, basically, kerosene. My fuel taxes are refunded, because I pay the IFTA tax instead. You are following this discussion enough to know what IFTA taxes are by now, right? I am paying the IFTA taxes, as are all truck operators, and the roads are not being fixed. If you want to defend your socialist government and taxation, answer me the following:

Where is my IFTA tax money going?

Since I am paying IFTA to repair the roads, why do we need Stimulus money to repair the roads?

Which then brings out the selfish nature by saying, "I don't drive in the north, so I don't need snow removal, let them pay for it."

That's your strawman argument. I never said anything of the kind, never even brought up the subject.

Windmills generate a small amount of power without producing air pollution. So you can either pay for that, or pay to subsidize Chinese coal production.

Chinese coal production? Yeah, right...since we don't have any coal in the US...those are imaginary coal miners who are out of work because the government won't let them run the mines, imaginary coal trucks that are parked, imaginary mines that are closed. And those windmills that are sitting up on the hills, not turning...are they really turning, and I'm just imagining that they aren't?

Morella
10-23-2010, 09:33 PM
So WTF, exactly, is your race? What mixed with what? Because you have repeatedly insulted Muslims in this thread, and coyly acted like you have a pass, strongly implying that you are at least descended from Muslims.

Are you "mixed" Irish and English?

Generically Anglo-European with some Cherokee at some ambiguous point in your genetic past?

A quarter Mexican?

Blasian with a Canadian big toe?

You claim to be a straight shooter, so shoot straight.

I don't actually know what race I am. I have brown skin...as for the hair, only my stylist knows for sure. I speak with a French accent, and some of my relatives are Muslim, although, as it was mentioned earlier in this thread, the Muslims that you have to fear the most are white. And I did fear my grandparents very much, especially during the 80's when I was taken to France and subjected to Sharia law. I actually had to escape to the United States, back to where I was originally born! But the grandparents are dead now, I am safely back in Les Etats-Unis, Mom and I have made up (she has brown skin too), and my sex change was successful, despite rumors to the contrary, so I'm feeling much better now.

OK, maybe this is all bullshit, but...what difference does it make what race I am anyway? Can't you find a way to insult me without picking on my race?

Lobohan
10-23-2010, 09:37 PM
Oh my Gawd! I didn't realize that Wik had checked it out, or there wouldn't have been any reason to discuss it. I beg forgiveness.He's posted his birth certificate online. He had two birth announcements at the time. His mother had never been out of the country when he was born.

You are a fucking retard. I know you're just trolling, but seriously, at least try to sound sane.

Morella
10-23-2010, 09:40 PM
Non non, I'm sure she's very busy and on her want to Vegas as we speak.

Yes, where I am paying $12 a day for internet access that is free everywhere else in the free world, so, please...do me a favor and say something intelligent. I'm having buyer's remorse so far.

Morella
10-23-2010, 09:42 PM
N'est-ce pas.

Sorry. Personal peeve and it's not like I'm using my French degree for anything else.

Tu m'a fait du nickel, chou!

Morella
10-23-2010, 09:45 PM
You know what's funny. There is a good chance Morella will drive over the new Mike O'Callaghan – Pat Tillman Memorial Hoover Dam Bypass Bridge, saving hours by avoiding the Hoover Dam. I wonder if she'll be thankful for the $240million in taxes that went to its construction.

Probably not.

I come down I-15 from the north, and through Laughlin from the south, which is the correct way to bypass the dam. There is no purpose whatsoever for this bridge, but that is typical for a government project.

Morella
10-23-2010, 09:51 PM
He's posted his birth certificate online. He had two birth announcements at the time. His mother had never been out of the country when he was born.


No, what Barry posted was a sheet of checked paper run through a line printer...go look it up, because it is doubtful that anyone here is going to post a link to the picture. It is not convincing, and, although people around here claim that they are trying to get to the truth, what they are really interested in is the Communist agenda. They are not going to show you anything that could discredit Obama.

As for his mother, how in the hell do you know where she has been? Did you follow her around?

Robot Arm
10-23-2010, 09:57 PM
I come down I-15 from the north, and through Laughlin from the south, which is the correct way to bypass the dam. There is no purpose whatsoever for this bridge, but that is typical for a government project.So you bypassed a publicly financed road by driving on...




...other publicly financed roads. I am moved to new levels of ennui by your bold political statement.

Robot Arm
10-23-2010, 10:04 PM
No, what Barry posted was a sheet of checked paper run through a line printer...So you think his dad wasn't subject to U.S. and Hawaiian jurisdiction, AND the birth certificate is a fraud.

What does that mean in practical terms; is Obama not a citizen twice over, or what? Is one of those a backup plan in case the other turns out to be bullshit?

Help us out here, what are you really trying to say?

Morella
10-23-2010, 10:22 PM
So you bypassed a publicly financed road by driving on...

...other publicly financed roads. I am moved to new levels of ennui by your bold political statement.

Actually, I was responding to this ejaculation of bridge and government worship:

You know what's funny. There is a good chance Morella will drive over the new Mike O'Callaghan – Pat Tillman Memorial Hoover Dam Bypass Bridge, saving hours by avoiding the Hoover Dam. I wonder if she'll be thankful for the $240million in taxes that went to its construction.

...but you left that part out, didn't you?

Morella
10-23-2010, 10:26 PM
So you think his dad wasn't subject to U.S. and Hawaiian jurisdiction, AND the birth certificate is a fraud.

What does that mean in practical terms; is Obama not a citizen twice over, or what? Is one of those a backup plan in case the other turns out to be bullshit?

Help us out here, what are you really trying to say?

I don't know whether the birth certificate was a fraud or not, which is why I didn't say. Your pretending that I said something, so that you can argue against it, is what is known as a "strawman argument".

I did raise the question of whether or not a Kenyan was subject to US jurisdiction, as "jurisdiction" was interpreted during ratification of the 14th amendment. Do you have anything intelligent to say about this?

Robot Arm
10-23-2010, 10:27 PM
Actually, I was responding to this ejaculation of bridge and government worship:You know what's funny. There is a good chance Morella will drive over the new Mike O'Callaghan – Pat Tillman Memorial Hoover Dam Bypass Bridge, saving hours by avoiding the Hoover Dam. I wonder if she'll be thankful for the $240million in taxes that went to its construction.


...but you left that part out, didn't you?I didn't think it was relevant. I mean, were the roads that you did use somehow not paid for by taxes?

Fear Itself
10-23-2010, 10:36 PM
As for his mother, how in the hell do you know where she has been? Did you follow her around?Did you?

Morella
10-23-2010, 10:38 PM
I didn't think it was relevant. I mean, were the roads that you did use somehow not paid for by taxes?

What does that have to do with the price of chichon in les banlieus?

The government built a bridge that we didn't need, and I'm supposed to be grateful for that? No, I'm not particularly grateful for a stupidassed bridge that I will never use, and whether or not the existing road, which was just fine the way it was, was paid for by taxes or not has nothing to do with it.

Bosstone
10-23-2010, 10:46 PM
One would think you'd be glad about shaving an hour or so off travel time.

Robot Arm
10-23-2010, 10:51 PM
...whether or not the existing road, which was just fine the way it was, was paid for by taxes or not has nothing to do with it.Back up a bit and tell me what it is you think we're talking about. Are you railing against all taxes, taxes to build roads, recent projects funded by taxes, or just this bridge in particular.

Tell me what point you're trying to make and then I'll tell you why you haven't made it.


I'm thinking it's about even money that she goes off on me for prejudging her with that last comment, and doesn't answer the actual question.

Morella
10-23-2010, 10:56 PM
One would think you'd be glad about shaving an hour or so off travel time.

The bridge does not shave any time off of the trip, except, perhaps, during the biker River Run week, and in any case, it is not worth $240 million.

Morella
10-23-2010, 10:59 PM
Back up a bit and tell me what it is you think we're talking about. Are you railing against all taxes, taxes to build roads, recent projects funded by taxes, or just this bridge in particular.

Tell me what point you're trying to make and then I'll tell you why you haven't made it.



Let's just leave you out of the bridge discussion, since you are incapable of understanding it, and it is not about you anyway. You just butted into it.

I have a problem with paying taxes that are not used for what they are supposed to be used for, that's all.

Euphonious Polemic
10-23-2010, 11:46 PM
Let's just leave you out of the bridge discussion, since you are incapable of understanding it, and it is not about you anyway. You just butted into it.

I have a problem with paying taxes that are not used for what they are supposed to be used for, that's all.

Ah,, it's not actually a bridge, see... It's in reality a project that is designed to facilitate the production of alien.... but now I've said too much.

ETA: getting closer to the pro bono thread... but so far to go. So far.

mhendo
10-23-2010, 11:56 PM
I have a problem with paying taxes that are not used for what they are supposed to be used for, that's all.So, if the Kenyan Muslim Obama proposed a new tax, and told you that the tax was going to be used for universal health care, and then used the tax to fund universal health care, you wouldn't have a problem with it?

emacknight
10-24-2010, 12:03 AM
I don't know whether the birth certificate was a fraud or not, which is why I didn't say. Your pretending that I said something, so that you can argue against it, is what is known as a "strawman argument".

I did raise the question of whether or not a Kenyan was subject to US jurisdiction, as "jurisdiction" was interpreted during ratification of the 14th amendment. Do you have anything intelligent to say about this?

No, what Barry posted was a sheet of checked paper run through a line printer...go look it up, because it is doubtful that anyone here is going to post a link to the picture. It is not convincing, and, although people around here claim that they are trying to get to the truth, what they are really interested in is the Communist agenda. They are not going to show you anything that could discredit Obama.

As for his mother, how in the hell do you know where she has been? Did you follow her around?

The shit you're spouting isn't intelligent enough to be worthy of a response.

But like Starving Artist, you have a fascinating way of almost saying something, without actually saying anything.

Then when called on your bullshit, you can rush back and claim the words you put in a particular order don't mean what everyone thinks they mean, or you were kidding, or we all read into something.

Certainly not a tactic that will gain you any credibility, not that you'll care because credibility doesn't seem to be your goal.

I also like that you call it the IFTA Tax, which goes to suggest you don't actually understand it.

And as to your specific question, "Since I am paying IFTA to repair the roads, why do we need Stimulus money to repair the roads?"

Because there area a lot of fucking roads, and the money to repair them got sent to Iraq to build roads there, after blowing them up.

You have a funny grasp on the US federal budget. And have yet to prove that Obama isn't a Chinese Robot from the Future.

emacknight
10-24-2010, 12:09 AM
I have a problem with paying taxes that are not used for what they are supposed to be used for, that's all.

We all do.

Your side of the equation got to spend it in Iraq. Now it seems like our side is going to spend it treating illegal immigrants with AIDS (and maybe performing a few late term abortions).

$12 an hour, I sure hope this is worth it. I can think of a lot of other ways to spend $12 in Vegas. Have you seen that new bridge over the Hoover Damn, it's freakin huge!

http://www.thegunstorelasvegas.com/ is crazy fun!

emacknight
10-24-2010, 12:11 AM
So, if the Kenyan Muslim Obama proposed a new tax, and told you that the tax was going to be used for universal health care, and then used the tax to fund universal health care, you wouldn't have a problem with it?

Would it exclude people with AIDS???

Sevastopol
10-24-2010, 12:20 AM
...
I have a problem with paying taxes that are not used for what they are supposed to be used for, that's all.Me too. You'd think it was a popular opinion. And yet when I want the Defense budget to be used for defense only, the amount of resistance to this simple idea is more than you can believe.

It is only an anecdote and you are free to not believe me, but on more than one occasion I have had people tell me it is OK to use the defense forces for the invasion of Iraq!

emacknight
10-24-2010, 12:23 AM
As for his mother, how in the hell do you know where she has been? Did you follow her around?

Was she a US citizen, subject to what ever made up definition of jurisdiction you're using?

Or what she also a Chinese Robot from the future?

Does it even matter where his father was from, how he got into the country, who's jurisdiction he was under, and what time portal he traveled through?

Do you think his father is part of that weird shit in Stargate SGU? Let he was sent to our Earth by aliens that had something to do with the pyramids?

I only bring that up because it's just so much more plausible than the drivel you've been force-fed, which should give you some indication how batshit insane your theories are. If I were you, I'd find the lying bastard that told them to you and kick him square in the nuts. Or the taco, which ever.

Bosstone
10-24-2010, 12:24 AM
The bridge does not shave any time off of the trip, except, perhaps, during the biker River Run week, and in any case, it is not worth $240 million.Wow, you sound so certain, even though the bridge isn't even open to the public yet. Do you have a link to a traffic study that backs up what you're saying, or are you just talking out your ass and making shit up?

emacknight
10-24-2010, 12:26 AM
Me too. You'd think it was a popular opinion. And yet when I want the Defense budget to be used for defense only, the amount of resistance to this simple idea is more than you can believe.

It is only an anecdote and you are free to not believe me, but on more than one occasion I have had people tell me it is OK to use the defense forces for the invasion of Iraq!

Well, there was that time in 1984 when Russian paratroopers landed Colorado. I sat in a documentary called Red Dawn.

emacknight
10-24-2010, 12:28 AM
And those windmills that are sitting up on the hills, not turning...are they really turning, and I'm just imagining that they aren't?

We already told you, they're not windmills. They're thermonuclear devices.

BigT
10-24-2010, 12:29 AM
What people don't seem to get is that you you don't even need some form of proof of our President's birth. All you need is the fact that the so-called short-form certificate is enough for him to be legally declared a citizen. Even if evidence was found that he was born outside of the U.S., it wouldn't matter.

As for being a secret radical Muslim--that's a contradiction in terms. There are just too many behavioral requirements that we'd be able to see. It's not like there's some special provision that lets you out of every commandment if you are acting as a secret undercover spy.

Finally, I've suspected that Morella was not on the up and up since she got here.

Oldeb
10-24-2010, 01:10 AM
...although people around here claim that they are trying to get to the truth, what they are really interested in is the Communist agenda.

Why does it always have to Commies? :( I really wish you'd pick a more interesting boogeyman to base your stupid around. The Red Menace is boring.

There haven't been any scary Communists in my lifetime. (China may be scary, but it's not because of them pushing a glorious workers' paradise and railing against the evils of capitalism) It's like someone telling me that instead of the Truth I'm getting nothing but the Saber Tooth Cat agenda. They might have been really scary once but after they went extinct it's hard to be properly terrified.

Sevastopol
10-24-2010, 03:34 AM
What people don't seem to get is that you you don't even need some form of proof of our President's birth.

Finally, I've suspected that Morella was not on the up and up since she got here. I agree. Each and every birth agitator is in a complete, nay transcendental, state of awareness that the whole attack on Obama is entirely baseless. Their mantra: "It does not matter that it is not true."

To which is sometimes added, "See how we got Clinton" and "Remember what they did to Bush."

Morella
10-24-2010, 04:44 AM
Me too. You'd think it was a popular opinion. And yet when I want the Defense budget to be used for defense only, the amount of resistance to this simple idea is more than you can believe.

It is only an anecdote and you are free to not believe me, but on more than one occasion I have had people tell me it is OK to use the defense forces for the invasion of Iraq!

Or Afghanistan? Cosovo? Hey, Barry is in charge of the military, and Congress has gone along with the whole Iraq thing, so this isn't a partisan issue, nor is it conservative/liberal. I am amazed at how you liberal idiots justify wasteful spending by saying that we spend money on the military.

Morella
10-24-2010, 04:47 AM
Yes, where I am paying $12 a day for internet access
$12 an hour, I sure hope this is worth it.


I can see we're still having a problem with reading comprehension.

Morella
10-24-2010, 05:26 AM
Wow, you sound so certain, even though the bridge isn't even open to the public yet. Do you have a link to a traffic study that backs up what you're saying, or are you just talking out your ass and making shit up?

haha "The Liberal Trucker"

Hey, Bobby, shut off the engine. We've been idling for more than three seconds. That contributes to global warming and wastes fuel.

But we're sitting at a red light, Brucie!

It doesn't matter. Former President Gore said that we shouldn't idle our engine. Do you want volcanos, floods, tsunamis and world destruction?

Gosh, no, Brucie! I'll shut it off. Should I set the brakes too?

I don't think so, Bobby. They make a hissing noise, and that means they must be exhaling something, probably CO2. That contributes to global warming.

Gee, Brucie. You are so smart. Hey, we have a preplan going to Vegas!

Vegas? Oh, Bobby! I can't wait to go downtown (teehee). Maybe we can catch the Kenny Kerr show, or Frank Marino. I'll call our favorite hotel, the Del-Mar, and get us a room.

You can't, Brucie! The damned conservatives had the Del-Mar shut down! They actually called it a fornicatorium, can you believe the nerve of these people!

Oh Gosh, Bobby. Just get us a room at the Sahara, then. Do we have enough condoms for a trip to Vegas?

Why do we need condoms, Brucie? Since Obamacare passed, all of our health care is free! We don't have to worry about getting AIDS anymore, or paying our rent or our utility bills. Obama said so on TV!

Gee willickers, Bobby! Obama is the best thing that ever happened to this country. Hey, the traffic light has changed a few times and people are honking at us. Do you think we should go?

Okey doke, Brucie. Which way is it to Vegas?

Umm...I don't know, sweetie. I hear they built a new bridge. Is it shorter to go that way?

I'm not sure, Brucie. I don't think they've done a government traffic study yet.

What, no traffic study? I don't think we should start the engine until a traffic study has been done. Let's just sit here for a while...if someone doesn't send us the traffic study report, we can always complain to somebody.

Morella
10-24-2010, 05:28 AM
Well, there was that time in 1984 when Russian paratroopers landed Colorado. I sat in a documentary called Red Dawn.

Where were you sitting?

Morella
10-24-2010, 05:31 AM
Why does it always have to Commies? :( I really wish you'd pick a more interesting boogeyman to base your stupid around. The Red Menace is boring.

There haven't been any scary Communists in my lifetime. (China may be scary, but it's not because of them pushing a glorious workers' paradise and railing against the evils of capitalism) It's like someone telling me that instead of the Truth I'm getting nothing but the Saber Tooth Cat agenda. They might have been really scary once but after they went extinct it's hard to be properly terrified.

Yes, right. Reagan simple waved his hand and Communism went away. Everyone can relax now, the threat is gone.

Morella
10-24-2010, 05:36 AM
I agree. Each and every birth agitator is in a complete, nay transcendental, state of awareness that the whole attack on Obama is entirely baseless. Their mantra: "It does not matter that it is not true."

To which is sometimes added, "See how we got Clinton" and "Remember what they did to Bush."

What's funny is that you're being led to choose one side or the other, instead of looking at what is really going on. It's an old sales tactic...if you're selling a printer to a business, for example, don't show them one printer and make the decision "buy this or don't buy it". Show them two, and make it a decision between buying one or the other. This is why they give us polarizing issues like abortion, gay marriage, and illegal immigration. This is why, just to get back on topic for a moment, the conservatives line up with moral issues. It's to pit people against each other, make them choose sides against each other, and not against the government and big business, which are basically the same thing.

I don't give a flying fuck what they (the ubiquitous "they"?) did to Bush.

Oldeb
10-24-2010, 06:43 AM
Yes, right. Reagan simple waved his hand and Communism went away. Everyone can relax now, the threat is gone.

Well I have been told he was the next best thing to god-incarnate....

But it's far more likely that it failed as a social/political/economical philosophy. Here's a list of the current communist states.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_communist_states

I hate to tell you but it's really hard to be scared of Laos, Vietnam, or Cuba. North Korea and Jong-Il would be hilarious if he wasn't starving his people. Let it go, capitalism won years ago.

And did you just imply up above that Obama had something to do with the start of the Afghanistan War? :confused:

emacknight
10-24-2010, 07:01 AM
Yes, right. Reagan simple waved his hand and Communism went away. Everyone can relax now, the threat is gone.

Didn't I tell you, we're back to 1980's level stupid. It's all part of the Communist agenda, that sent a Chinese Robot back in time to be born in Hawaii and later become President. Brilliant.

emacknight
10-24-2010, 07:05 AM
Yes, where I am paying $12 a day for internet access that is free everywhere else in the free world...

I can see we're still having a problem with reading comprehension.

I can see you're still having trouble understanding whooshing.

emacknight
10-24-2010, 07:10 AM
haha "The Liberal Trucker"

That was adorable. Would you like us to make up a bunch of shit about "the conservative trucker" or the "libertarian trucker" or the "seeking the truth trucker?" Would that help with your narrative?

Or was there more of a point to your story?

What is it about long haul trucking that fucks people up so bad?

emacknight
10-24-2010, 07:13 AM
Where were you sitting?

hahaha I get it now, we're looking for typos. I wrote sat instead of saw. You got me! I guess that means Obama is a Kenyan Muslim and that there haven't been any plane crashes due to illegal drugs!

Morella
10-24-2010, 08:09 AM
That was adorable. Would you like us to make up a bunch of shit about "the conservative trucker" or the "libertarian trucker" or the "seeking the truth trucker?" Would that help with your narrative?


If you can make it entertaining, by all means, do.

Morella
10-24-2010, 08:11 AM
But it's far more likely that (communism) failed as a social/political/economical philosophy.


Has anyone tried to explain this to Barry?

And did you just imply up above that Obama had something to do with the start of the Afghanistan War?

What orifice did you pull that one out of?

Fear Itself
10-24-2010, 08:36 AM
Has anyone tried to explain this to Barry?



What orifice did you pull that one out of?Now you are not even trying.

Czarcasm
10-24-2010, 08:38 AM
Has anyone tried to explain this to Barry?Barry who?

MovieMogul
10-24-2010, 08:53 AM
Barry who?Oh, you know, our POTUS. You see, Morella's on a cazh first name basis with him because they're buds.

Just like I can call Morella a royal dumbass fuckstick--because we're tight, y'all.

Morella
10-24-2010, 08:59 AM
Barry who?

Good question. Soetoro? Maybe we should look on his birth certificate.

Better yet, just make him a new one.

http://kenyanbirthcertificategenerator.com/

Oldeb
10-24-2010, 10:06 AM
Has anyone tried to explain this to Barry?
Hey, if you want to stick with the Red Menance that's fine. I'd just like to see you become a better troll by picking a big bad that didn't go defunct decades ago. It's no fun if the best fearmongering you have is, "Laos is coming to get you!" At least Emac's time travelling robots aren't a proven failure.

What orifice did you pull that one out of?
I was hoping for some clarification on this:
Or Afghanistan? [Kosovo]? Hey, Barry is in charge of the military, and Congress has gone along with the whole Iraq thing, so this isn't a partisan issue, nor is it conservative/liberal.
It's your response to Sevastopol's comments on starting wars. Considering Obama was serving in the Illinois State Legislature during the Kosovo stuff and he inherited both Afghanistan and Iraq I really don't see what he has to do with either of them. I was just curious if you were a firm believer in Steele's, "Keep in mind again, federal candidates, this was a war of Obama’s choosing. This is not something the United States had actively prosecuted or wanted to engage in,” comment.

John DiFool
10-24-2010, 10:50 AM
Wow, you sound so certain, even though the bridge isn't even open to the public yet. Do you have a link to a traffic study that backs up what you're saying, or are you just talking out your ass and making shit up?

Ya think?!???!??? (http://www.wreckamovie.com/system/shot_medias/0000/6291/Troll_-_Succesful_troll.jpg)

Merijeek
10-24-2010, 11:27 AM
Ya think?!???!??? (http://www.wreckamovie.com/system/shot_medias/0000/6291/Troll_-_Succesful_troll.jpg)

Since the guy in that race is winning, he's obviously a Kenyan. Much like Obama! See, this thread's troll works on so many levels!

-Joe

emacknight
10-24-2010, 11:47 AM
There is a good lesson buried under all this shit:

Why is there such a strong connection with being an anti-government lunatic, and a conspiracy believing wingnut?

On its own, I could respect someone that wanted less government involvement. I myself can identify areas that I'd love the government to get the hell out of (marriage, drugs, alcohol).

But those that seem to push hardest and scream loudest for it, are also the same that finish their posts with [insert random conspiracy theory] and remembering fondly back to [random era when government wasn't involved in something].

Why go through so much trouble to prepare a nice meal, then pour shit all over it?

You see, food is an area where there are differing opinions about what is good. Wet ribs vr dry ribs for example. And a healthy debate can exist where each presents reasons.

But the dry-rib camp doesn't benifit by subsequently suggestion that bbq sauce is a plot by the CIA to blah blah blah THE GUBERMENT!

So as a lesson to us all, if you want to be taken seriously on a particular topic, you've got hide the crazy. Just stick with a given subject matter and leave the baggage at home.

Morella will forever be remembered as that crazy old trucker that thinks Obama is a Chinese robot from the future, and that the world was great before 1964.

Starving Artist gets remember as that cranky old man that thinks the liberal agenda was to have more STIs and that the world was better by in the 50s.

Both of who can't finish a post without uttering some bullsthit about an agenda.

Perhaps it's the conservative agenda, to make conservatives sound stupid, so that people stop paying attention to them... and then profit?

Starving Artist
10-24-2010, 12:43 PM
Starving Artist gets remember as that cranky old man that thinks the liberal agenda was to have more STIs and that the world was better by in the 50s.That's right, if you've got nothing but bullshit going for you, your best offense is to point and laugh at some alleged physical or mental shortcoming of your opponent. When's the last time around here that you've seen a conservative belitting someone in an argument because of how old they were? Or calling them a moron or an idiot in virtually every post they make?

Weak sauce, guys.

And besides, I'm not old anyway. Sixty is the new forty! You must not know about that either. :cool:

Lobohan
10-24-2010, 12:48 PM
That's right, if you've got nothing but bullshit going for you, your best offense is to point and laugh at some alleged physical or mental shortcoming of your opponent. When's the last time around here that you've seen a conservative belitting someone in an argument because of how old they were? Or calling them a moron or an idiot in virtually every post they make?

Weak sauce, guys.

And besides, I'm not old anyway. Sixty is the new forty! You must not know about that either. :cool:SA, can I ask, do you think Obama is a citizen? I just want to know how well informed you are.

Robot Arm
10-24-2010, 12:49 PM
That was adorable. Would you like us to make up a bunch of shit about "the conservative trucker" or the "libertarian trucker" or the "seeking the truth trucker?" Would that help with your narrative?

If you can make it entertaining, by all means, do.It's about this woman who decides, of her own free will, to go to Las Vegas. While there, she pays $12 a day to be able to access the internet, again of her own free will. Then she complains about it to the people she finds online.

It's hysterical.

Or calling them a moron or an idiot in virtually every post they make?Yesterday.

emacknight
10-24-2010, 01:28 PM
That's right, if you've got nothing but bullshit going for you, your best offense is to point and laugh at some alleged physical or mental shortcoming of your opponent. When's the last time around here that you've seen a conservative belitting someone in an argument because of how old they were? Or calling them a moron or an idiot in virtually every post they make?

Weak sauce, guys.

And besides, I'm not old anyway. Sixty is the new forty! You must not know about that either. :cool:

but but but...

...we only do it because other people are so obnoxiously conservative; they started it; this message board is too conservative; I'm telling mom.

or have you already forgotten the things you've said in previous posts? You know it's searchable right? Did you not say the liberal agenda was to have more STI's (you probably said STD's like some idiot not informed on the subject)

emacknight
10-24-2010, 01:29 PM
SA, can I ask, do you think Obama is a citizen? I just want to know how well informed you are.

And one further question: how would you then describe someone that doesn't think Obama is a citizen? Is that just a difference of opinion? Does that opinion carry equal weight with someone that believes he was born in Hawaii?

Starving Artist
10-24-2010, 01:51 PM
Did you not say the liberal agenda was to have more STI's (you probably said STD's like some idiot not informed on the subject)I said neither. What I did say was that the liberal agenda (or more accurately, it's influence over the years) has resulted in not only more STD's but a hell of a lot more. Currently 25% among high-school age females, I believe.

And I don't believe either of you guys have ever heard me comment on where Obama was born, or upon the legitimacy of his presidency.

Lobohan
10-24-2010, 02:02 PM
I said neither. What I did say was that the liberal agenda (or more accurately, it's influence over the years) has resulted in not only more STD's but a hell of a lot more. Currently 25% among high-school age females, I believe.

And I don't believe either of you guys have ever heard me comment on where Obama was born, or upon the legitimacy of his presidency.That's why we're asking. You're reflexively defending Morella, and she/he is so vile, stupid and uninformed I was wondering if there was any limit to your disgusting partisanship.

You are very, very, uninformed and you think opinions are facts. But I think that even you must be smart enough to understand that the birther arguments are simply lies for the dregs of humanity to rally behind.

Starving Artist
10-24-2010, 02:10 PM
but but but...

...we only do it because other people are so obnoxiously conservative; So you freely admit to your childish behavior but you excuse it on the grounds that you find our "obnoxious" behavior as conservatives objectionable?

Wouldn't you call that, uh, childish?

Especially so if you consider that fact that the obnoxiousness ratio around here between liberals and conservatives is, by my estimation, roughly 2000:1.

Which means that in effect you're acting childish because of our obnoxious response to the overwhelming obnoxiousness coming from your side?

So, how is it exactly that your childishness is justified again?

Starving Artist
10-24-2010, 02:17 PM
That's why we're asking. You're reflexively defending Morella, and she/he is so vile, stupid and uninformed I was wondering if there was any limit to your disgusting partisanship.I'm not defending her and it's dishonest for you to say I am. The fact that we share certain beliefs does not equate to a defense. Nor has she been defending me when she refers to comments I've made. Besides, I don't think she is a conservative, by definition, and I think she would agree with that as well.

You are very, very, uninformed and you think opinions are facts. I would suggest that it is you who is uninformed and prone to regarding his opinions as fact. Both are evident in this very post.

Merijeek
10-24-2010, 02:22 PM
Developmentally disabled chimp throws poop. Expects reward banana.

-Joe

Euphonious Polemic
10-24-2010, 03:31 PM
And I don't believe either of you guys have ever heard me comment on where Obama was born, or upon the legitimacy of his presidency.

So where DO you think Obama was born? DO you think his presidency is legitimate?

Are people entitled to different opinions on this matter? Or is it not a matter of opinion, but a matter of fact?

emacknight
10-24-2010, 03:33 PM
but but but...

...we only do it because other people are so obnoxiously conservative;

So you freely admit to your childish behavior but you excuse it on the grounds that you find our "obnoxious" behavior as conservatives objectionable?

Wouldn't you call that, uh, childish?

No, I'd call it conservative:

Incorrect. I post like I do because many of the board's liberal posters are arrogant, superior, outrageously partisan jerks. The board itself is populated largely by very knowledgeable, very helpful, very sympathetic, and very good people. Unfortunately they then not to be the ones offering political opinions.

Not because what you post is crap, it's because we're all so liberal, and you're so conservative.
Nope. It has nothing to do with your being liberal or me being conservative. It has to do with you and a lot of other posters around here being so obnoxiously liberal.

I guess you forgot you said that. It's okay, that happens, it's called age associated memory impairment. And why is age relevant? Because you bring it up so often, you make your age part of the discussion. In fact, you once claimed that people believe UHC is good because they're young. How is up there or your soap box?

Especially so if you consider that fact that the obnoxiousness ratio around here between liberals and conservatives is, by my estimation, roughly 2000:1.

Which means that in effect you're acting childish because of our obnoxious response to the overwhelming obnoxiousness coming from your side?

So, how is it exactly that your childishness is justified again?

Given the obnoxious nature of our new friend Morella, your golden ration has fallen. Unless you think that her obnoxiousness is some how justified?

You also missed my question: how would you describe someone that thinks Obama is Muslim Kenyan, and not a US citizen? Would you said intelligent, or something else?

CannyDan
10-24-2010, 03:45 PM
but but but...

...we only do it because other people are so obnoxiously conservative; they started it; this message board is too conservative; I'm telling mom.

So you freely admit to your childish behavior but you excuse it on the grounds that you find our "obnoxious" behavior as conservatives objectionable?

Wouldn't you call that, uh, childish?

Especially so if you consider that fact that the obnoxiousness ratio around here between liberals and conservatives is, by my estimation, roughly 2000:1.

Which means that in effect you're acting childish because of our obnoxious response to the overwhelming obnoxiousness coming from your side?

So, how is it exactly that your childishness is justified again?

Pssstttt!! SA old buddy!! Didn't the audible whoooooooshing noise emack's post made register on you? Ma-a-a-a-velous to see you tilting at yet another windmill. Perfectly consistent. It's so -- you. Kind of like your "estimate" which also has not even a tangential relationship to fact. Again though, it's just more of you.

I just checked in to point and laugh and, guess what? I'm right on time. So here I go,

pointing

and

laughing.

Ah, SA, you're a never ending source of joy. Thanks again!

Morella
10-24-2010, 04:27 PM
It's your response to Sevastopol's comments on starting wars. Considering Obama was serving in the Illinois State Legislature during the Kosovo stuff and he inherited both Afghanistan and Iraq I really don't see what he has to do with either of them. I was just curious if you were a firm believer in Steele's, "Keep in mind again, federal candidates, this was a war of Obama’s choosing. This is not something the United States had actively prosecuted or wanted to engage in,” comment.

What, me a believer? In anything? No, that just isn't going to happen.

Morella
10-24-2010, 04:33 PM
SA, can I ask, do you think Obama is a citizen? I just want to know how well informed you are.

Obviously anyone who believes that Barry is a citizen is as well informed as you are, right? Or at least as gullible...

Morella
10-24-2010, 04:38 PM
Morella will forever be remembered as that crazy old trucker that thinks Obama is a Chinese robot from the future, and that the world was great before 1964.

That, of course, will be true only if people around here are stupid enough to accept your word as gospel, in lieu of thinking for themselves. If they are, indeed, that stupid, their stupididity will be their own reward.

emacknight
10-24-2010, 04:44 PM
Obviously anyone who believes that Barry is a citizen is as well informed as you are, right? Or at least as gullible...

Dude, you just blew my mind. What if we're the gullible ones, and you have it all right?!

Wait, what if by believing Obama is a robot from the future makes me gullible, like you?

I think the real question though, is how do we ever truly trust another president? If we can't verify Obama's identity, how can we be sure where Palin was born? I heard her parents snuck into Canada to give birth in their free although substandard hospitals. If they did it for her brother (http://washingtonindependent.com/78624/palin-growing-up-i-hustled-over-the-border-for-health-care) who knows how many other times they did it. Do we know where Bush or Clinton were born?

Morella
10-24-2010, 04:44 PM
I'm not defending her and it's dishonest for you to say I am. The fact that we share certain beliefs does not equate to a defense. Nor has she been defending me when she refers to comments I've made. Besides, I don't think she is a conservative, by definition, and I think she would agree with that as well.


Exactly...only a dumbass needs to line up on one side or another of an issue that was created specifically for the purpose...to divide people.

If I can get you to disagree about what brand condom is the best, will you notice that I'm using both brands to fuck you in the ass? Not if you're the voter, and not if I am the government, or the businessman. It's all the same thing.

Czarcasm
10-24-2010, 04:46 PM
Good question. Soetoro? Maybe we should look on his birth certificate.Barry who, again? His legal last name is "Obama".

Morella
10-24-2010, 04:49 PM
Dude, you just blew my mind. What if we're the gullible ones, and you have it all right?!

Wait, what if by believing Obama is a robot from the future makes me gullible, like you?

I think the real question though, is how do we ever truly trust another president? If we can't verify Obama's identity, how can we be sure where Palin was born? I heard her parents snuck into Canada to give birth in their free although substandard hospitals. If they did it for her brother (http://washingtonindependent.com/78624/palin-growing-up-i-hustled-over-the-border-for-health-care) who knows how many other times they did it. Do we know where Bush or Clinton were born?

Ding dong ding...do you need to believe that you can trust any president? Maybe you need to set up your finances so that you can profit, no matter who may be telling the truth, and whether or not it matters.

Czarcasm
10-24-2010, 04:52 PM
That, of course, will be true only if people around here are stupid enough to accept your word as gospel, in lieu of thinking for themselves. If they are, indeed, that stupid, their stupididity will be their own reward.Well, thanks to you we know exactly how much we should value your word on anything:I don't actually know what race I am. I have brown skin...as for the hair, only my stylist knows for sure. I speak with a French accent, and some of my relatives are Muslim, although, as it was mentioned earlier in this thread, the Muslims that you have to fear the most are white. And I did fear my grandparents very much, especially during the 80's when I was taken to France and subjected to Sharia law. I actually had to escape to the United States, back to where I was originally born! But the grandparents are dead now, I am safely back in Les Etats-Unis, Mom and I have made up (she has brown skin too), and my sex change was successful, despite rumors to the contrary, so I'm feeling much better now.If there were an award for "Most Likely To be Unemployed And Living In Parent's Basement", you'd definitely be in the running.

emacknight
10-24-2010, 05:00 PM
Ding dong ding...do you need to believe that you can trust any president? Maybe you need to set up your finances so that you can profit, no matter who may be telling the truth, and whether or not it matters.

Me personally? I don't need to trust the president, as I don't plan to fall backwards into his arms any time soon. You, however, seem to have a particular bent towards him. It seems to really matter to you. Why is that? Why do you care so much whether he was born 49 years ago in Hawaii or assembled in a Chinese factory 12 years from now?

Lobohan
10-24-2010, 05:01 PM
Obviously anyone who believes that Barry is a citizen is as well informed as you are, right? Or at least as gullible...No stupid. His citizenship is a fact that you aren't smart enough to have learned. This is the mark of 21st century conservatism. Your outright stupidity and acceptance of drivel is your defining feature.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

He's released his actual birth certificate. But since you aren't smart enough to question things you have decided to believe in drivel.

I'll explain it so that even you can understand it:


Obama released his birth certificate. This is a fact and can't be denied, except by someone simply ignoring reality.

The officials in Hawaii have a state copy that they do not release to the public. This is the same for everyone. If you were born in Hawaii they would not release the official state copy either. They would give you the same type of paper that Obama has released. This is also a fact, and if you gave a shit about facts and reality you would need to address it.

The Hawaii officials, including Hawaii's Republican Governor have seen the state copy and have said that it matches the version that Obama has released to the press. This is also a fact. And if you cared about facts and reality you would have to deal with it.

Also, Obama had two, count them two, birth notices in local Hawaii papers when he was born. Your stupid bullshit ideas would need to account for the fact, if you cared about facts and reality.

Children born in America are Americans. This is also a fact. And if you cared about facts and reality you'd have to deal with it. http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp

But you don't deal with it, because you're a cowardly bitch who is too stupid, too afraid and too weak to actually try to understand a simple and straight forward issue.

I should mention that I'm well aware that Morella is a troll who's taking the piss. But dismissing such garbage by fiat does a disservice to the peanut gallery.

emacknight
10-24-2010, 05:26 PM
Silly Lobohan, you're as gullible as all the other sheep out there. Don't buy in to what the liberal media is selling you:


Obama released his birth certificate. This is a fact and can't be denied, except by someone simply ignoring reality.
It isn't denied. Anyone can produce Obama's birth certificate. If you want, I'll go make a birth certificate that says he was born in Canada, to Jewish parents!

The officials in Hawaii have a state copy that they do not release to the public.
Obviously the government is going to protect the president, it's the government, duh. It's all part of the plan. Before running for office, various Chinese officials made sure to get key employees into specific bureaucracies.

The Hawaii officials, including Hawaii's Republican Governor have seen the state copy and have said that it matches the version that Obama has released to the press.

Now this one is just too obvious to comment on. So now we're just supposed to trust some random governor for a chain of island that isn't even really part of the US?

Also, Obama had two, count them two, birth notices in local Hawaii papers when he was born.

Right, which proves that the Chinese have time traveling capabilities. If you look closely at the wording, it was clearly written by someone from the future.

Children born in America are Americans.

Sure, but what about robots from the future? Surely they're not American???

Don't believe the lies! The whole thing is meant to bolster the Chinese economy, fill the US with illegal immigrants. Then China can move all their manufacturing to the US and profit!

That's where I'm putting my money.

Merijeek
10-24-2010, 07:36 PM
Why do all of these self-made men and women, who have all this money, and are the only really worthwhile people around, why do they spend so much time arguing on the internet?

Why does a guy who lives in mom's basement feel qualified to argue tax policy?

-Joe

Starving Artist
10-24-2010, 07:53 PM
And why is age relevant? Because you bring it up so often, you make your age part of the discussion. No, this is not close to being correct. I made the mistake once of answering someone who asked how old I was and my age is all I've heard about since. The issue rarely if ever came up before that.

In fact, you once claimed that people believe UHC is good because they're young.Hmm...seems to me I didn't quite say that. Care to link to the appropriate post so we can all see what I really said? How is up there or your soap box? High. And honest. Honest and high. Want me to lift you up here so you can see what the world looks like when you're all grown up?

So where DO you think Obama was born? DO you think his presidency is legitimate? What do you think I think, and why do you believe that?

Are people entitled to different opinions on this matter? Being a conservative in good standing, I believe that everyone is entitled to think for themselves and to hold whatever opinions they wish.

But then I grew up in a more enlightened, less repressive time. :D

Or is it not a matter of opinion, but a matter of fact?Beats me, I haven't looked into it. What I can tell you is that the powers that be have held that Obama is legitimately entitled to serve as president. So to me - in that good and proper common sense way so characteristic of us conservatives ;)) - that's the end of it. You won't find me now, much less ten years from now as have so many of our more liberal brethren with regard to GWB, whinging that Obama "stole" the election.

Why do all of these self-made men and women, who have all this money, and are the only really worthwhile people around, why do they spend so much time arguing on the internet? Because it provides a way to directly confront people of the type whose thinking has been so detrimental to the welfare of this country for the last four decades. Prior to the internet all we could do was bitch amongst ourselves. ;)

Biffy the Elephant Shrew
10-24-2010, 07:56 PM
all of these self-made men and women

Isn't that just another term for...robots?

Starving Artist
10-24-2010, 07:59 PM
Hardly.

emacknight
10-24-2010, 08:01 PM
No, this is not close to being correct. I made the mistake once of answering someone who asked how old I was and my age is all I've heard about since. The issue rarely if ever came up before that.

Oh, well, in that case I should apolo...oh wait there's more:

Want me to lift you up here so you can see what the world looks like when you're all grown up?

Hmm...seems to me I didn't quite say that. Care to link to the appropriate post so we can all see what I really said?

Sure, that'll be $20. But for free I'll give you a hint (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=559440).

emacknight
10-24-2010, 08:17 PM
In fact, you once claimed that people believe UHC is good because they're young.
Hmm...seems to me I didn't quite say that. Care to link to the appropriate post so we can all see what I really said?

Yup, it's what you said.

This board skews young. And it skews liberal. And it skews, how shall we say...financially challenged, in the main.

Notice the inference to age, political leaning, and economic status that you imbue on the rest of us?

So the fact that people on this board who are predominantly young, liberal and broke happen to like a government system that's "free", even if they have to wait months on end to get it, and who think it's just great that their government is now finished with having suddenly decided to tighten its belt and the bad things about its health care system are finally going to "get better", really means next to nothing in terms of which system is better.

I guess in fairness I forgot to mention you also included liberal (although with you that's a given) and broke.

How do I get my $20? Oh I know, I'm going to use a bunch of government services I don't pay for, but that you've been taxed enough already for.

Starving Artist
10-24-2010, 08:45 PM
Pardon, but I don't see "people believe UHC is good because they're young" anywhere in there.

And you know why?

Because it suggests a host of inaccuracies and nonsensities that are nowhere to be found in what I actually said.

But then you already knew that, didn't you? Otherwise you'd have paraphrased my comments honestly.

Euphonious Polemic
10-24-2010, 08:49 PM
What do you think I think, and why do you believe that?

The critical question is really, what do YOU think that I think you think?

Starving Artist
10-24-2010, 08:53 PM
Why is that critical? I couldn't care less what you think about what I think that you think that I think. You're the one who asked the question.

Robot Arm
10-24-2010, 08:55 PM
Why is that critical? I couldn't care less what you think about what I think that you think that I think. You're the one who asked the question.And you're the one who hasn't answered it.

Starving Artist
10-24-2010, 08:57 PM
Correct.

Euphonious Polemic
10-24-2010, 09:08 PM
Who's on first?







* credit to Abbot & Costello for the line. Or not. They may have adapted the routine from some other vaudeville team. Just so SA does not think I'm taking credit for a classic routine. Must keep him happy.

Starving Artist
10-24-2010, 09:27 PM
As much as I'm pleased by your heretofore nonexistent desire to keep me happy, I would be happier still if you simply answered the question. You've pretty clearly implied that you've arrived at certain conclusions regarding what I think or know about the question of Obama's birth, and I'd like to know if I'm correct regarding those implications and if so what you're basing them on.

Robot Arm
10-24-2010, 10:14 PM
...I would be happier still if you simply answered the question.You've admitted that you're not answering his question, why the hell should he answer yours?

Starving Artist
10-24-2010, 10:22 PM
*cups hands around mouth*


Psst...I already answered it. ;)

Euphonious Polemic
10-24-2010, 10:37 PM
I have no idea why you'd think that I would think that you would think that you would doubt Obama's birthplace.

Think about that.

Morella
10-24-2010, 11:17 PM
No stupid. His citizenship is a fact that you aren't smart enough to have learned. This is the mark of 21st century conservatism. Your outright stupidity and acceptance of drivel is your defining feature.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

He's released his actual birth certificate. But since you aren't smart enough to question things you have decided to believe in drivel.

I'll explain it so that even you can understand it:


Obama released his birth certificate. This is a fact and can't be denied, except by someone simply ignoring reality.

The officials in Hawaii have a state copy that they do not release to the public. This is the same for everyone. If you were born in Hawaii they would not release the official state copy either. They would give you the same type of paper that Obama has released. This is also a fact, and if you gave a shit about facts and reality you would need to address it.

The Hawaii officials, including Hawaii's Republican Governor have seen the state copy and have said that it matches the version that Obama has released to the press. This is also a fact. And if you cared about facts and reality you would have to deal with it.

Also, Obama had two, count them two, birth notices in local Hawaii papers when he was born. Your stupid bullshit ideas would need to account for the fact, if you cared about facts and reality.

Children born in America are Americans. This is also a fact. And if you cared about facts and reality you'd have to deal with it. http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp

But you don't deal with it, because you're a cowardly bitch who is too stupid, too afraid and too weak to actually try to understand a simple and straight forward issue.

I should mention that I'm well aware that Morella is a troll who's taking the piss. But dismissing such garbage by fiat does a disservice to the peanut gallery.

What I wonder is...why would you care whether or not Barry was born in Hawaii?

Why do you feel the need to stick up for him? Is it, perhaps, because you need somebody to believe in?

E-Sabbath
10-24-2010, 11:19 PM
You know what, guys? I'm calling this thread. It's not really fun anymore. I'm going home, I hear my mom calling, she's got apple cider. You guys want apple cider? C'mon.

Morella
10-24-2010, 11:29 PM
It isn't denied. Anyone can produce Obama's birth certificate. If you want, I'll go make a birth certificate that says he was born in Canada, to Jewish parents!

And now, we're getting close to the truth. I lived under a fake birth certificate for many years...all I had to was take a copy of someone else's birth certificate, copy it, delete some stuff with whiteout, and type it back in, then make another copy again. My roommate told me to take it down to the black neightborhood in South Dallas, where people wouldn't be very smart, and they would accept it and give me a driver's license. It worked.

I had to do this because I basically "escaped" from France and came back to the US in the 80's, against my parents' wishes. I was born in the US, and I am a citizen, but it was actually easier to trick some black folks into accepting a fake birth certificate than it was to, ultimately, obtain a real one.

If I can do this, with a xerox copier and a bottle of whiteout...guess what...so can Obama. Whether or not his birth certificate is real, I don't know and I don't care. His real name is Barry Soetoro, he grew up in Indonesia, and he is a Muslim. I've posted video of him admitting to all of these things, and some of you people still don't wish to believe it. That's fine. Worship a fake Obamagod if you want to. Put your head up your ass...maybe the view is better for you. Do whatever it takes to make you happy, believe in whatever you need to believe in. Life is too short to do anything else. Whatever makes you happy, believe it, and live it. Just don't ask me to believe it...I know better.

Euphonious Polemic
10-24-2010, 11:38 PM
What about the de-clawed kittens? How do they work into the picture?

And the circumcised gay fetuses?

(come on, I have a bingo card to fill up here. Give me a break!)

Leaper
10-25-2010, 12:08 AM
My roommate told me to take it down to the black neightborhood in South Dallas, where people wouldn't be very smart

Whoa, boy. *waits for firestorm*

His real name is Barry Soetoro,

It may have been, for a while. I wouldn't know. So what? No one can change their name now? If he feels more of a kinship with his birth father (who gave him his original name) than his stepfather, so what?

he grew up in Indonesia,

For a few years, yes. So? He's never denied it. What relevance is this?

and he is a Muslim.

Which means that Jeremiah Wright has absolutely no relevance to him, yes? Anyway, he's a poor sort of Muslim if he doesn't do a single thing practicing Muslims do, like pray towards Mecca at particular times and so on. In that case, it'd make no difference at all, would it?

As for the video, this has already been addressed in post 836. If there is direct evidence of him saying so, surely it's reasonable to post a summary (e.g. on August 4, 2009, he said in a speech in Chicago, "I'm most definitely a Muslim.")? Just so we can get context and separate the opinion of the presenter (which already says flat out that it's not saying what you think it's saying)?

Lobohan
10-25-2010, 12:24 AM
What I wonder is...why would you care whether or not Barry was born in Hawaii?

Why do you feel the need to stick up for him? Is it, perhaps, because you need somebody to believe in?I care, because you are saying things that are not true. And you either already know this, or are genuinely too stupid to understand simple facts.

I vote genuine stupidity. :D

Lobohan
10-25-2010, 12:25 AM
His real name is Barry Soetoro, he grew up in Indonesia, and he is a Muslim.None of that is actually true.

elucidator
10-25-2010, 12:38 AM
And who's fault is that? Morella already said she saw the video where he said all those things, and you say he was lying! Connect the dot, people!

mhendo
10-25-2010, 12:42 AM
People, stop responding to the troll.

I know that "Obvious troll is obvious" has become an internet cliche, but this is one of the clearest examples i've ever seen. I know it can be hard to resist, but don't feed it.

Gyrate
10-25-2010, 04:40 AM
Connect the dot, people!Wait - are you saying Obama's a Hindu now? I can't keep up.

Morella
10-25-2010, 05:24 AM
His real name is Barry Soetoro, he grew up in Indonesia, and he is a Muslim.None of that is actually true.

Then why did Barry say it? Is he just a compulsive liar?

Czarcasm
10-25-2010, 06:12 AM
Then why did Barry say it? Is he just a compulsive liar?No, he isn't.

Morella
10-25-2010, 06:57 AM
And who's fault is that? Morella already said she saw the video where he said all those things, and you say he was lying! Connect the dot, people!

I posted video of Barry saying all of those things. You people asked me to prove what I was saying, I did, and now you're having a hissy fit over it.

There's just no pleasing some folks, I guess.

Czarcasm
10-25-2010, 07:07 AM
I posted video of Barry saying all of those things. You people asked me to prove what I was saying, I did, and now you're having a hissy fit over it.Which "Berry" are you talking about-this nonexistent "Soetoro", or your President Obama?

Shot From Guns
10-25-2010, 10:26 AM
You know what, guys? I'm calling this thread. It's not really fun anymore. I'm going home, I hear my mom calling, she's got apple cider. You guys want apple cider? C'mon.

Oh boy! Fuck yes, apple cider. I am all up in that apple cider business.

P.S. Please everybody help me remember this thread the next time Bricker tries to argue that he isn't a partisan hack. I've pointed it out to him several times so that he can give a good pedantic legal asswhupping to Morella's ridiculous claims about the Constitution, but so far he's ignoring me.

Merijeek
10-25-2010, 10:32 AM
People, stop responding to the troll.

I know that "Obvious troll is obvious" has become an internet cliche, but this is one of the clearest examples i've ever seen. I know it can be hard to resist, but don't feed it.

At least the mods are showing their usual one-the-ball-ness.

Does consistency have a source?

-Joe

Robot Arm
10-25-2010, 11:21 AM
P.S. Please everybody help me remember this thread the next time Bricker tries to argue that he isn't a partisan hack. I've pointed it out to him several times so that he can give a good pedantic legal asswhupping to Morella's ridiculous claims about the Constitution, but so far he's ignoring me.Posting here is optional. There are times when I see poorly constructed arguments or uncited facts used to support an idea I generally agree with. I don't feel an obligation to point out those weaknesses, although I do it on occasion. It's not my job to do someone else's homework for them.

The nature of the beast around here is for discussions to just peter out, without any sense of conclusion or consensus. So I participate in the areas that I find most ineresting; answering about the things I know about, asking about the things I don't, and with the vast majority of the board content somewhere in the middle. Just because I'm silent on something doesn't mean I agree with it. I don't see any reason to hold Bricker to a higher standard than that.

Now can I have some cider, too?

Shot From Guns
10-25-2010, 11:26 AM
I don't see any reason to hold Bricker to a higher standard than that.

Because his entire fucking raison d'etre on this board is to nitpick other people's arguments, especially when it involves the law in any way, and then claim that he does it equally to conservatives and liberals. Seriously. There was a thread once where for god-knows-how-many-pages he was arguing because someone referred to something as "unconstitutional" meaning "in my layman's opinion, it violates the Constitution," which he was insisting was absolutely wrong because there was as of yet no ruling from the Supreme Court saying that it was against the Constitution. :rolleyes:

villa
10-25-2010, 11:27 AM
OK, now the truth comes out. They're not interested in repealing the 14th amendment that ended slavery.

This is your knowledge of the Constitution?

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.


Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.


Now, which one of these ended slavery, do you think? It isn't a tough question - it is even on the naturalization exam.

mhendo
10-25-2010, 11:33 AM
Oh boy! Fuck yes, apple cider. I am all up in that apple cider business.

P.S. Please everybody help me remember this thread the next time Bricker tries to argue that he isn't a partisan hack. I've pointed it out to him several times so that he can give a good pedantic legal asswhupping to Morella's ridiculous claims about the Constitution, but so far he's ignoring me.Huh?

As far as i can tell, Bricker hasn't even participated in this thread. Do you mean that you've PMed him to ask him to contribute?

Robot Arm
10-25-2010, 11:34 AM
Because his entire fucking raison d'etre on this board is to nitpick other people's arguments, especially when it involves the law in any way, and then claim that he does it equally to conservatives and liberals. Seriously. There was a thread once where for god-knows-how-many-pages he was arguing because someone referred to something as "unconstitutional" meaning "in my layman's opinion, it violates the Constitution," which he was insisting was absolutely wrong because there was as of yet no ruling from the Supreme Court saying that it was against the Constitution. :rolleyes:I don't recall all of Morella's legal arguments in this thread. There was the "subject to the jurisdiction of" thing; any others?

I wouldn't say that arguing with that counts as a nitpick; more of a self-evident, metric shitload of wrongness.

But then I'm not a lawyer.

Shot From Guns
10-25-2010, 11:50 AM
As far as i can tell, Bricker hasn't even participated in this thread. Do you mean that you've PMed him to ask him to contribute?

He's been nitpicking in another thread and I've asked him repeatedly there to come use his powers for good in this one.

ETA:

Robot Arm, I just want Bricker to specifically address the very wrong points that Morella is making about the Constitution (i.e., the several things she has claimed are unconstitutional, and her bizarre interpretation of "jurisdiction").

kaylasdad99
10-25-2010, 12:20 PM
Because his entire fucking raison d'etre on this board is to nitpick other people's arguments, especially when it involves the law in any way, and then claim that he does it equally to conservatives and liberals. Seriously. There was a thread once where for god-knows-how-many-pages he was arguing because someone referred to something as "unconstitutional" meaning "in my layman's opinion, it violates the Constitution," which he was insisting was absolutely wrong because there was as of yet no ruling from the Supreme Court saying that it was against the Constitution. :rolleyes:My memory doesn't include the part that I've underlined. Not contradicting you, but my perusal of the Dope is not comprehensive. Could you provide a cite that shows him admitting to cruising the Dope to jump onto smack-down-able blanket assertions and claiming that his radar is tuned for all such assertions, regardless of the poster's political alignment?

I have endeavored to make this request as specific as possible; please make any cites you provide conform to all of the elements I have mentioned above.

Bricker
10-25-2010, 12:27 PM
And now, we're getting close to the truth. I lived under a fake birth certificate for many years...all I had to was take a copy of someone else's birth certificate, copy it, delete some stuff with whiteout, and type it back in, then make another copy again. My roommate told me to take it down to the black neightborhood in South Dallas, where people wouldn't be very smart, and they would accept it and give me a driver's license. It worked.

I had to do this because I basically "escaped" from France and came back to the US in the 80's, against my parents' wishes. I was born in the US, and I am a citizen, but it was actually easier to trick some black folks into accepting a fake birth certificate than it was to, ultimately, obtain a real one.

If I can do this, with a xerox copier and a bottle of whiteout...guess what...so can Obama. Whether or not his birth certificate is real, I don't know and I don't care. His real name is Barry Soetoro, he grew up in Indonesia, and he is a Muslim. I've posted video of him admitting to all of these things, and some of you people still don't wish to believe it. That's fine. Worship a fake Obamagod if you want to. Put your head up your ass...maybe the view is better for you. Do whatever it takes to make you happy, believe in whatever you need to believe in. Life is too short to do anything else. Whatever makes you happy, believe it, and live it. Just don't ask me to believe it...I know better.

Obviously, as a new guest to the boards, having registered this very month, you don't know me. But in the nearly eleven years I have posted here, the sum of my posts cannot fairly be read to suggest that I have some deep need to support Obama's presidency. Indeed, I look forward to January 20, 2013, and the inauguration of a replacement.

That said, I feel you have made no case at all above. You analysis fails to address the original birth certificate, kept safe from white out and X-acto knives in the state's vault. Assuming you feel the Hawaiian officials are in on it, you still must explain the newspaper announcement, which would be rather prescient for purposes of fraud. Finally, even if Obama had been born overseas, he was still a natural born citizen through his mother, who was a US citizen.

Now turning to the meat of the matter for my arrival in this thread, the discussion of jus soli citizenship under US law.

Um... you're wrong.

I realize that lacks a bit of my usual panache, but when one is drowning, a teacup of water makes little difference. The entire basis for your claim seems to be that "under the jurisdiction thereof" means simply that the person is an alien. But apart from your claim, there is no caselaw supporting that view. As early as United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898), we learn: That all children, born within the dominion of the United States, of foreign parents holding no diplomatic office, became citizens at the time of their birth, does not appear to have been contested or doubted until more than 50 years after the adoption of the constitution, when the matter was elaborately argued in the court of chancery of New York, and decided upon full consideration by Vice Chancellor Sandford in favor of their citizenship. Lynch v. Clarke (1844) 1 Sandf. Ch. 583.
.
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There is, therefore, little ground for the theory that at the time of the adoption of the fourteenth amendment of the constitution of the United States there was any settled and definite rule of international law generally recognized by civilized nations, inconsistent with the ancient rule of citizenship by birth within the dominion. Nor can it be doubted that it is the inherent right of every independent nation to determine for itself, and according to its own constitution and laws, what classes of persons shall be entitled to its citizenship.
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The reasons for not allowing to other aliens exemption 'from the jurisdiction of the country in which they are found' were stated as follows: 'When private individuals of one nation spread themselves through another as business or caprice may direct, mingling indiscriminately with the inhabitants of that other, or when merchant vessels enter for the purposes of trade, it would be obviously inconvenient and dangerous to society, and would subject the laws to continual infraction, and the government to degradation, if such individuals or merchants did not owe temporary and local allegiance, and were [169 U.S. 649, 686] not amenable to the jurisdiction of the country. Nor can the foreign sovereign have any motive for wishing such exemption. His subjects thus passing into foreign countries are not employed by him, nor are they engaged in national pursuits. Consequently, there are powerful motives for not exempting persons of this description from the jurisdiction of the country in which they are found, and no one motive for requiring it. The implied license, therefore, under which they enter, can never be construed to grant such exemption.'


They go on to declare that Wong Kim Ark is a US citizen by virtue of the Fourteenth Amendment and his birth in San Francisco, even though his parents were alien. But beyond the Fourteenth Amendment, the decision adduces to the common law of England and of the US, and finds that the overwhelming weight of it supports that view as well.

What precisely are you relying upon for the opposite view?

Euphonious Polemic
10-25-2010, 01:22 PM
Thanks Bricker!

Jimmy Chitwood
10-25-2010, 02:06 PM
What precisely are you relying upon for the opposite view?

Wong Kim Ark was a citizen per the Supreme Court, but nobody ever said Wong Kim Ark was a natural born citizen. And where do we look to find a way to make that distinction significant, since it isn't supported by any jurisprudence? Why, original intent, of course!

So goes the argument.

E-Sabbath
10-25-2010, 02:10 PM
Oh boy! Fuck yes, apple cider. I am all up in that apple cider business.


You are Tycho Brahe and I claim your silver nose.

Bricker
10-25-2010, 02:21 PM
Wong Kim Ark was a citizen per the Supreme Court, but nobody ever said Wong Kim Ark was a natural born citizen. And where do we look to find a way to make that distinction significant, since it isn't supported by any jurisprudence? Why, original intent, of course!

So goes the argument.

Well, WKA does present the question as: The question presented by the record is whether a child born in the United States, of parents of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the Emperor of China, but have a permanent domicil and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China, becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States, by virtue of the first clause of the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

And they go on to answer that question in the affirmative.

So I guess we have to confront the perplexing question of whether "becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States" means that he is a natural-born citizen of the United States.

Even if you you dispute that claim -- an uphill climb if ever there was one -- it's pretty clear that the contrary position has no evidence at all. That is, WKA makes clear that one's parentage is (generally) irrelevant if you're born in the United States. If someone were to contend that it's otherwise, where is their proposed rule found? We admit that, say, Teddy Roosevelt was a natural born citizen, born in New York City. On what basis do we claim that Kim Lon Sun, also born in New York City, is not?

Bricker
10-25-2010, 02:26 PM
After a bit of research:

The Supreme Court HAS used those terms (""becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States" and "a natural-born citizen of the United States") interchangeably:

Kwock Jan Fat v. White, 253 US 454 (1920), referring to the subject:

It is not disputed that if petitioner is the son of Kwock Tuck Lee and his wife, Tom Ying Shee, he was born to them when they were permanently domiciled in the United States, is a citizen thereof, and is entitled to admission to the country. United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649. But while it is conceded that he is certainly the same person who, upon full investigation was found, in March, 1915, by the then Commissioner of Immigration, to be a natural born American citizen, the claim is that that Commissioner was deceived and that petitioner is really Lew Suey Chong, who was admitted to this country in 1909, as a son of a Chinese merchant, Lew Wing Tong, of Oakland, California.

(emphasis added)

Jimmy Chitwood
10-25-2010, 02:41 PM
Right, the Supreme Court has done so. But the Supreme Court isn't who wrote the Constitution, and that's our (for the purposes of this exercise I'm part of an "our") true source of authority.

That's how we get to the jurisdiction question. The claim is that the framers of the 14th intended "jurisdiction" to mean something more specific and restrictive than has been allowed for since; specifically (and we can make up some support here in Slaughterhouse and a couple others in defining the term) that jurisdiction means "sole jurisdiction;" i.e. subject only to American and not to any foreign jurisdiction. Which is why Obama's father being Kenyan is relevant - if his dad's subject to British or any other jurisdiction, Obama isn't subject only to American, and if he isn't subject only to American jurisdiction, he isn't a natural born citizen under the 14th.

My understanding of this argument falls apart a bit here, and I'm not sure how "we" reconcile the citizenship thing with the natural born citizenship thing, like whether Obama's not a citizen at all or just not a natural born one, but you have to admit that's pretty good. I feel like a Scientologist.

Bricker
10-25-2010, 02:44 PM
Right, the Supreme Court has done so. But the Supreme Court isn't who wrote the Constitution, and that's our (for the purposes of this exercise I'm part of an "our") true source of authority.

That's how we get to the jurisdiction question. The claim is that the framers of the 14th intended "jurisdiction" to mean something more specific and restrictive than has been allowed for since; specifically (and we can make up some support here in Slaughterhouse and a couple others in defining the term) that jurisdiction means "sole jurisdiction;" i.e. subject only to American and not to any foreign jurisdiction. Which is why Obama's father being Kenyan is relevant - if his dad's subject to British or any other jurisdiction, Obama isn't subject only to American, and if he isn't subject only to American jurisdiction, he isn't a citizen under the 14th.

My understanding of this argument falls apart a bit here, but you have to admit that's pretty good. I feel like a Scientologist.

Sure... except that the analysis in Wong Kim Ark eviscerates that position, by pointing out that wholly apart from the Fourteenth Amendment, the universally understood practice at the time was jus soli citizenship. So if the Fourteenth Amendment's jurisdiction language truly created this divide, why was that intent not made clear at the time. On what basis is it now asserted?

Jimmy Chitwood
10-25-2010, 02:49 PM
"We" are subscribers to the dissenting opinion in that particular dispute, of course.

Jimmy Chitwood
10-25-2010, 02:52 PM
To wit:

The rule was the outcome of the connection in feudalism between the individual and the soil on which he lived, and the allegiance due was that of liegemen to their liege lord. It was not local and temporary, as was the obedience to the laws owed by aliens within the dominions of the Crown, but permanent and indissoluble, and not to be cancelled by any change of time or place or circumstances.

And it is this rule, pure and simple, which it is asserted determined citizenship of the United States during the entire period prior to the passage of the act of April 9, 1866, and the ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment, and governed the meaning of the words "citizen of the United States" and "natural-born citizen" used in the Constitution as originally framed and adopted. I submit that no such rule obtained during the period referred to, and that those words bore no such construction; that the act of April 9, 1866, expressed the contrary rule; that the Fourteenth Amendment prescribed the same rule as the act, and that, if that amendment bears the construction now put upon it, it imposed the English common law rule on this country for the first time, and made it "absolute and unbending" just as Great Britain was being relieved from its inconveniences.

...

On the contrary, [p732] I am of opinion that the President and Senate by treaty, and the Congress by naturalization, have the power, notwithstanding the Fourteenth Amendment, to prescribe that all persons of a particular race, or their children, cannot become citizens, and that it results that the consent to allow such persons to come into and reside within our geographical limits does not carry with it the imposition of citizenship upon children born to them while in this country under such consent, in spite of treaty and statute.

In other words, the Fourteenth Amendment does not exclude from citizenship by birth children born in the United States of parents permanently located therein, and who might themselves become citizens; nor, on the other hand, does it arbitrarily make citizens of children born in the United States of parents who, according to the will of their native government and of this Government, are and must remain aliens.

Tested by this rule, Wong in Ark never became and is not a citizen of the United States, and the order of the District Court should be reversed.