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View Full Version : why is it empowering that a woman have a sex toy but shameful for a man


PSXer
11-22-2010, 01:28 PM
my friend wants to know

StusBlues
11-22-2010, 01:37 PM
The same reason it's empowering for a man to have sex with five women in a week, but somehow tragic when a woman opens the pearly gates for five fellows in the same span.

Sofis
11-22-2010, 01:40 PM
There are a lot of things that go into how male and female sexuality are viewed differently. One of them is that men are supposed to pursue and acquire sex (while women are supposed to hold mete out sex); consequently, if a man has to turn to sex toys, he has failed at acquiring sex, and is thus a lesser man ("wanker" is an insult for the same reason). Another is that male sexuality is viewed/portrayed as dangerous and threatening. By extension, anything associated with it is bad.

tdn
11-22-2010, 01:46 PM
By the same token, a woman that uses a sex toy is empowering herself and proving that she doesn't need a man, who probably won't understand or care about her mysterious sexuality anyway.

Mops
11-22-2010, 01:55 PM
I assume 'sex toy' in the context of that question should be more precisely phrased 'masturbation aid'. The general assumption would be that women masturbate out of choice, but men because they are not getting any (at least at the present moment).

Mtgman
11-22-2010, 02:52 PM
I think the quality/design of such toys is a significant factor. The Fleshlight or blow-up doll are just quite ridiculous devices. They require either significant setup, cleanup, or both. This makes them inconvenient, at best. Add in the much lower ability of male-oriented toys to produce satisfaction as compared to female toys and you've got a ridiculous method of not really achieving your goal. They're almost, but not quite entirely unlike real sex.

Enjoy,
Steven

Slithy Tove
11-22-2010, 02:53 PM
Maybe if they were marketed to men as "sex tools," not "toys"

congodwarf
11-22-2010, 03:01 PM
Maybe also because many female sex toys can be used without embarrassment in a relationship, or even an orgy.

But, if a man were to ask his partner if they wanted to play with a fleshlight or a blowup doll, they'd probably get laughed out of the room. For one thing, male sex toys seem to be fairly solitary items. A guy doinking a blowup doll isn't putting his penis in anything else at the same time. But a woman can have sex with a man (or woman) and use a dildo, another penis, and a vibrator all at the same time.

Alessan
11-22-2010, 03:08 PM
Women aren't supposed to enjoy sex. Men are.

RTFirefly
11-22-2010, 03:23 PM
blow-up dollPer Slithy Tove's comment about marketing, maybe they should be marketed as "sex action figures."

cuauhtemoc
11-22-2010, 03:23 PM
I always get annoyed at these discussions about what people "suppose" about men and women. Who are the supposers? I think these things are masks for what people suppose about themselves, and they should stop worrying so much about what other people suppose, because they'll never know.

corkboard
11-22-2010, 03:27 PM
Tell "your friend" to just go ahead and buy that Fleshlight. We won't tell.





<snicker>

Ferret Herder
11-22-2010, 03:43 PM
Because on average, many more women have trouble orgasming through hand-only masturbation (or sex) than men do. Vibrators let many more of these women discover what orgasms are like, what they like sexually, what feels good for their individual bodies.

Czarcasm
11-22-2010, 03:55 PM
I'm pretty satisfied with the two I was born with. They seldom break down, they come with infinitely variable speed setting and yet require no batteries or cords, and are easily washable.

tr0psn4j
11-22-2010, 04:04 PM
I'm pretty satisfied with the two I was born with. They seldom break down, they come with infinitely variable speed setting and yet require no batteries or cords, and are easily washable.

But doesn't one get jealous of the other?

even sven
11-22-2010, 04:04 PM
Women aren't supposed to enjoy sex. Men are.

To elaborate on this, think about the word "empowerment" as being about choice.

How does a woman traditionally exercise sexual choice? By being "choosy" about who she has sex with. Not having sex with anyone is the ultimate in being choosy. Thus, solo sex is seen as empowering because it is an expression of sexual choice. It's no longer about "giving" sex to guys who may not satisfy you sexually (and all of this is very mixed up with the idea that women do not normally enjoy sex) but about "taking" that pleasure for yourself.

How do men traditionally exercise sexual choice? By having a variety of potential partners to choose from. It's assumed that a man will always prefer a human partner if they have access to one, and thus using a toy is seen as a sign that you are unable to attract a partner.

Czarcasm
11-22-2010, 04:13 PM
But doesn't one get jealous of the other?Not in the least-in fact, they even wash each other's backs.

Cat Fight
11-22-2010, 04:19 PM
Maybe also because many female sex toys can be used without embarrassment in a relationship, or even an orgy.

But, if a man were to ask his partner if they wanted to play with a fleshlight or a blowup doll, they'd probably get laughed out of the room. For one thing, male sex toys seem to be fairly solitary items. A guy doinking a blowup doll isn't putting his penis in anything else at the same time. But a woman can have sex with a man (or woman) and use a dildo, another penis, and a vibrator all at the same time.

I think this is a huge part of it. Most if not all sex toys for women are easy to use with a partner (or even designed with a partner in mind). There's only so much that can be done with a guy whose got his member in a fleshlight. I also agree that women have lucked out with all the German and Scandinavian designers who have tackled female sex toys Ė some of them are darned pretty. OTOH, a lot of the pro-masturbation cheerleading for women is because much of the stigma around horniness and masturbation still exists, especially for teenage girls, where it's assumed for boys.

kanicbird
11-22-2010, 05:57 PM
Part of it is it's just not the same. Something reasonably satisfying for a women is relatively inexpensive while for a man would require all the engineering expertise of Japan, and comes at a hefty price.

Another part is that men and women are naturally suppose to come together for Love and sex this is the ideal, and people do know this in their hearts, regardless of what their mind has been taught/trained. Women are suppose to be pure as taught by society however, having a sex toy means she is one step closer to her natural heart's desire for Love and sex - A good thing to be celebrated. Men OTOH are expected by society to be able to acquire sex, so havine to resort to a sex toy is seen as this man not able to meet his heart's desire for Love and sex, and he is to be felt sorry for - a bad thing.

BrotherCadfael
11-22-2010, 06:55 PM
Not in the least-in fact, they even wash each other's backs.Hand-on-hand porn!

Tabby_Cat
11-22-2010, 07:44 PM
To elaborate on this, think about the word "empowerment" as being about choice.

How does a woman traditionally exercise sexual choice? By being "choosy" about who she has sex with. Not having sex with anyone is the ultimate in being choosy. Thus, solo sex is seen as empowering because it is an expression of sexual choice. It's no longer about "giving" sex to guys who may not satisfy you sexually (and all of this is very mixed up with the idea that women do not normally enjoy sex) but about "taking" that pleasure for yourself.

How do men traditionally exercise sexual choice? By having a variety of potential partners to choose from. It's assumed that a man will always prefer a human partner if they have access to one, and thus using a toy is seen as a sign that you are unable to attract a partner.
Very interesting, I never thought of it in this way before. But I think you've nailed (heh heh heh) it.

OpalCat
11-22-2010, 07:46 PM
Interesting that everyone assumes the "Fleshlight" and blowup dolls but nobody has mentioned dildos/buttplugs for men. Plenty of men use them, you know. I think the obvious reluctance to admit that (be shameful) is that men feel less manly admitting they put things in their butts.

Runs With Scissors
11-22-2010, 09:21 PM
I assume 'sex toy' in the context of that question should be more precisely phrased 'masturbation aid'. The general assumption would be that women masturbate out of choice, but men because they are not getting any (at least at the present moment).

I masturbate because I have to. No one makes fun of me for breathing! :D

Der Trihs
11-22-2010, 09:23 PM
Interesting that everyone assumes the "Fleshlight" and blowup dolls but nobody has mentioned dildos/buttplugs for men. Plenty of men use them, you know. I think the obvious reluctance to admit that (be shameful) is that men feel less manly admitting they put things in their butts.Well, I also think that far fewer men do so than there are women who use didoes. I know that when skimming this thread butt plugs and didoes for men simply never entered my mind. The penis is an erogenous zone for nearly all men; that's the body part that naturally comes to mind when one thinks of masturbating with or without toys.

EvilTOJ
11-22-2010, 09:24 PM
You're not supposed to be breathing out of that hole.

taffygirl
11-22-2010, 09:27 PM
I don't understand this assumption that women have their pick of men. Are we assuming that men are always on the prowl but are only sometimes successful at getting laid, whereas women, at any given time, have multiple possibilities but choose to "empower" themselves? Would that it were so!

Koxinga
11-22-2010, 09:30 PM
Also, toys for females have a longstanding and (once) respected medical provenance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_hysteria).

(There are probably far too few people in the world to understand and appreciate it, but I'd like to see a SNL type skit about a beleaguered Victorian doctor who is called upon to do "pelvic massages" for repressed male patients, to aid them in achieving male hysterical paroxysm.)


Also:

Something reasonably satisfying for a women is relatively inexpensive while for a man would require all the engineering expertise of Japan

Can I make this my sig?

Antinor01
11-22-2010, 09:31 PM
I wasn't aware it was shameful. Learn something new every day.

Rigamarole
11-22-2010, 09:33 PM
Lot of good answers already but basically to sum it up crudely: for a man it's an accomplishment to land it in a vagina so a sex toy represents failure. For a woman, the challenge is to keep the cock away, so a sex toy represents victory.

Ura-Maru
11-22-2010, 09:38 PM
You know those classy-porn websites that show nothing but women entertaining themselves, right? Have you ever wondered why thereís no male equivalent?

No? You havenít?

Neither has anyone else. Ever. Chick-on-same-chick action is sexy, dude-on-same is not. (ďBut wait,Ē I hear some cool women and guys complaining, ďI think it is sexy!Ē Perhaps in the abstract you do, but with, ah, accessories? You ever fantasize about coming home early and finding your boy on the computer, playing a one man game of quake with Claire Adams? Didnít think so.)

Thus, the artifacts of male self-love are contemptible, but the female equivalent are things of glory!

Joking aside, I donít think the toyís themselves have much if anything to do with the attitude described. Itís what theyíre used for. A guy hanging around with himself is at best wasting a little time in a harmless way, more likely performing some utilitarian maintenance, and often perceived as a loser who canít get laid. So, by buying something to help him, heís at best being self-indulgent. A woman is at best, reenacting that bit from Pleasantville, more likely exploring (inward!), and at worst . . . Ok, even at worst, thatís still awesome. So her toys are, well, awesome.

Not so different from Ďa manís supposed to conquer, a womanís supposed to BE conquered. A man is showing he canít dominate, a woman is placing herself above domination,í But I think the dude=clown, chick=sexy is the core of it, not the power dynamics.

Narrative contributes, too. Thereís no male storyline where doing this is cool, unless youíre 15 (and even then itís not cool, just expected) or thereís a woman with some body art in the room watching you. The female version has several positive possibilities. Your boy sucks in bed, your boy canít keep up with your magnificent libido, youíre warming yourself up for the return of your boy, you havenít yet found a worthy boy, your boy is across the room doing the same thing for your mutual entertainment, or, of course, youíve been repressed by society and are now reclaiming your sexuality.

On the other hand . . . ĎEmpowermentí via self-love? Thatís taking this a little too seriously. The 50ís ended half a century ago. Thereís something profoundly wrong with the world if this meme is still necessary.

There are a lot of double standards relating to sex. Some benefit women, some men, most a subset of one or the other, depending on the situation. As these things go, smirk-free sex toy privileges is pretty minor. Best to let it slide. Particularly as one of the female perks is a greater leeway when complaining about double standards relating to sex . . .

--
The BEST sex toys are the homemade ones, of course, though the raw materials require considerable effort to acquire, and great skill and patience is required to complete the process. The results are well worth it, though. Of course, in my experience, women tend to end up with the best of these, too . . .

Koxinga
11-22-2010, 09:43 PM
There are a lot of double standards relating to sex. Some benefit women, some men, most a subset of one or the other, depending on the situation.

Makes me think of this post (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12912501&postcount=10) . . . If Nava were a dude, reaction to the story would be much different, I suspect.

scootergirl
11-23-2010, 01:27 AM
Is it shameful for a man? I don't think so, but that's just my opinion. I think that many people are presuming that sex toys are used primarily by women when alone. I for one, use them WITH my guy and we both enjoy them together. Toys are fun to experiment with, whether man made or of the vegetable variety :) -- but in the end I prefer a nice hard dick in either opening any day.

BigT
11-23-2010, 01:48 AM
I always get annoyed at these discussions about what people "suppose" about men and women. Who are the supposers? I think these things are masks for what people suppose about themselves, and they should stop worrying so much about what other people suppose, because they'll never know.

And I get annoyed at people who don't understand the concept of social norms and try to turn that around as an insult about other people not knowing themselves.

Okay, not really, but I don't see the point of your admission. It really is not so difficult to find out what society in general thinks about certain topics. It is quite clear to most people in this thread what is being discussed, and if you don't understand what that is, that's ignorance on your part.

Of course I've found myself with the bias mentioned--but I can easily look around and see that I am not alone, and can infer that I learned my bias from the culture. And then I can try to find out why the culture deems something to be true, as an effort to remove my bias, or just as a curiosity.

even sven
11-23-2010, 01:56 AM
A woman is at best, reenacting that bit from Pleasantville, more likely exploring (inward!), and at worst . . . Ok, even at worst, thatís still awesome. So her toys are, well, awesome..

I think you are forgetting that women exist, too, and actually comprise a significant portion of the population. Most women are not quite as ready to wax poetic about the extreme hotness of female masturbation. I think your analysis might reflect a little bit of you projecting.

Koxinga
11-23-2010, 02:00 AM
Most women are not quite as ready to wax poetic about the extreme hotness of female masturbation.

You've just been visiting the wrong web sites.

Martini Enfield
11-23-2010, 02:04 AM
I don't understand this assumption that women have their pick of men. Are we assuming that men are always on the prowl but are only sometimes successful at getting laid, whereas women, at any given time, have multiple possibilities but choose to "empower" themselves? Would that it were so!

Provided the woman in question is aged 18-40(ish) and isn't completely barking mad, massively obese (or anorexic), laden with "baggage"/suffering from insurmountable personality problems, then the general assumption is, IME, correct.

There are plenty of guys who would like to sleep with a female friend/acquaintance if she was amenable, but there are a LOT of "normal" (although the term is relative) guys who are absolutely, completely bereft of opportunities for intimacy- as in, they don't have any female friends or simply aren't interesting to women.

Conversely, I've known plenty of attractive, "sane" women who sit around bitching they can't get a boyfriend/FWB but exclude any guy who doesn't earn $100k a year, drive a European marque car, and have esoteric interests of an aesthetic or artistic leaning. But I've never known a handsome, "sane" guy to sit around complaining that he can't get any because none of the women he meets have a big enough rack or are into the same things as him- they'll sit around complaining that whilst they're getting some, their current FWB isn't into the same stuff as them or has expensive tastes or whatever.

even sven
11-23-2010, 02:07 AM
I don't understand this assumption that women have their pick of men. Are we assuming that men are always on the prowl but are only sometimes successful at getting laid, whereas women, at any given time, have multiple possibilities but choose to "empower" themselves? Would that it were so!

I agree. I think the thing that gets left out here is "with an attractive and desirable partner." Both men and women are pretty capable of picking up some drunk horny person at a bar. But a man who would never even register the overweight gap-toothed middle aged bar mamma pouding shots in the corner as a possibility suddenly gets all worked up about it not being fair when a woman decides she would prefer not to sleep with the overweight gap-toothed middle aged bar fly pounding shots in the corner.

The idea that women not want to sleep with someone they don't find at least minimally attractive is somehow still surprising.

even sven
11-23-2010, 02:17 AM
Provided the woman in question is aged 18-40(ish) and isn't completely barking mad, massively obese (or anorexic), laden with "baggage"/suffering from insurmountable personality problems, then the general assumption is, IME, correct.

Yes, she can get laid by someone. But just like you don't want to get with bald women, we don't want to get with bald men. Just like you don't want to get with tubby women, we don't want to get with tubby men. Just like you don't want to get with foul-smelling women, we don't want to get with foul smelling men. Women (and men) want fit, clean, attractive partners. Many, many, many of the "willing" men are not. Not even close.

I think a lot of guys see their buddy, the average dude, and thinks he looks okay. They don't notice that he's got a receding hairline, has twenty pounds to lose, and smells like cheap whiskey. That same guy would never dream of going for a girl with the same faults. But somehow this get interpreted as "women can get sex whenever they want to" and "men can never get the sex they need." I don't think guys even notice how rigid their own standards can be, and are somehow shocked that women might also have standards, too.

Argent Towers
11-23-2010, 02:42 AM
I think it's less about men thinking they're better looking than they are and more about men thinking they're more interesting than they are.

Maybe it's true that most women would prefer a good looking and in-shape partner. I'm sure it is. However, we live in a society where there are thousands of hot women giving it up for men who aren't good looking or in shape - usually because the men in question are rock stars or rich and famous in some other way - and this encourages men who think that if only they were just interesting enough, just "cool" enough, they could land any woman in spite of their excess bodyweight and poor posture.

Ura-Maru
11-23-2010, 03:06 AM
I think you are forgetting that women exist, too, and actually comprise a significant portion of the population. Most women are not quite as ready to wax poetic about the extreme hotness of female masturbation. I think your analysis might reflect a little bit of you projecting.

I havenít forgotten that women exist for longer than 15 minutes in a stretch for the last 20 years. And of course they get to vote too, but I donít think they vote the same way that men do on this particular issue.

Sometimes I drift off point while trying to be entertaining. What I was trying to say was the attitudes towards male and female masturbation, and by extension, male and female masturbation accessories are significantly different.

Women having fun in that particular way is sexy to many, if not most of the people who are attracted to women. And for those not attracted, most interpretations of the activity are neutral-to-positive. So, the overall attitude skews towards Ďsexy/adventurous/fun.í

Most of the people attracted to men do NOT find said activity sexy (at least in itís commonly practiced state) and for those not attracted, thereís really no positive interpretations beyond Ďdoesnít do any harm,í and a lot of mildly negative and mocking ones. So, the overall attitude skews towards Ďfunny/immature/loserí

Certainly there are still people who think the female version is terrible, and presumably there are those (somewhere) who think the male version is awesome. But I donít think my generalized assumptions are inaccurate. That is, a woman doing it is considered sexy, at least most of the time, while a man doing it is considered silly, at least most of the time.

Or maybe Iím more out of touch with the culture than I thought.

--
The overly-flowery stuff does allow me to amuse myself, at least. Appropriate for this thread . . .

ColdPhoenix
11-23-2010, 05:34 AM
I don't think guys even notice how rigid their own standards can be, and are somehow shocked that women might also have standards, too.

For a long-term partner yes there are standards. For a one night stand a surprisingly large number of men don't really care. Add in alcohol and you'd be surprised by the number of men who would hump fatty, drunken, bad teeth mama in the corner to et a bit of poontang on a night out.

I'm not saying the majority would but enough that the vast majority of girls could get laid if they wanted.

"Any hole's a goal" has often been said on a night out.

Lynn Bodoni
11-23-2010, 06:05 AM
I'm not saying the majority would but enough that the vast majority of girls could get laid if they wanted. And the vast majority of men could get laid if they wanted to, as well. Sure, they might not find a WOMAN who wants to get it on, but there's usually enough gay/bi guys around who'll be happy to have a go.

Masturbation is empowering for women because it's a statement that women enjoy sex, and enjoy having orgasms. For a long, long time the idea was that "nice" women didn't want to have sex, and if they DID have sex, it was only with their husbands, to please those husbands and/or try to get pregnant. The thought was that "nice" women, the kind of woman that a man would be pleased to take home to Mom, only put up with sex, they didn't initiate it, and they damned sure didn't didn't play with themselves. Or at least, they didn't admit to it. When you add in the fact that many if not most women won't achieve an orgasm from vanilla sex without some addition clit play, most women considered sex to be more of a chore that might or might not get them aroused, but that wouldn't give them a happy ending.

Masturbation, for women, is a way of almost guaranteeing sexual release. It's an acknowledgement that a woman has sexual feelings, and that a woman is entitled to an orgasm, just like a man is.

Mijin
11-23-2010, 06:19 AM
Another person weighing in on male vs female sexuality...

I don't think that men are sex mad, but for us sex is a simple, free act, that is more enjoyable with a hot girl, but is pretty good with just about anyone.
We don't get why women need to be convinced / seduced into sex (and this is true even for one-night stands -- they don't normally proceed from "Hey, wanna have sex?").

Women OTOH can sleep with just about anyone they want.
However, they don't often perceive themselves as the selectors. I suspect that this is because women are attracted to guys who act like selectors themselves. If a guy's surrounded by girls, he becomes desirable to other women.
So, as a simplification, women like guys they feel they can't easily have.

Obviously this is all generalizations.

Lynn Bodoni
11-23-2010, 06:25 AM
Women OTOH can sleep with just about anyone they want. No, actually we can't. We can't walk up to a man who we think is really attractive, and say "Let's get it on", he might be in a relationship, he might not be into women at all, and he might not like to be approached by a woman. Or he might not be attracted to the particular woman who approaches him. But no. We can usually get laid by SOMEONE almost immediately...if we lower our standards enough. But the same is true of men.

Mijin
11-23-2010, 06:40 AM
No, actually we can't. We can't walk up to a man who we think is really attractive, and say "Let's get it on", he might be in a relationship, he might not be into women at all, and he might not like to be approached by a woman. Or he might not be attracted to the particular woman who approaches him. But no. We can usually get laid by SOMEONE almost immediately...if we lower our standards enough. But the same is true of men.

Sure, there's a good chance a guy will be in a relationship, or gay or whatever.

But really it is not a symmetric situation.

For a guy to immediately ask about sex is not even seen as a neutral question: he's a jerk or whatever.
But a woman...the biggest problem she'd have is being taken seriously. If she could be taken seriously most guys would be willing. I don't consider myself highly sexed, and yet any woman that's at least average-looking and wanted sex, no strings attached...sure, why not?

Sevastopol
11-23-2010, 06:46 AM
I think it's less about men thinking they're better looking than they are and more about men thinking they're more interesting than they are.

Maybe it's true that most women would prefer a good looking and in-shape partner. I'm sure it is. However, we live in a society where there are thousands of hot women giving it up for men who aren't good looking or in shape - usually because the men in question are rock stars or rich and famous in some other way - and this encourages men who think that if only they were just interesting enough, just "cool" enough, they could land any woman in spite of their excess bodyweight and poor posture. This is in fact why the captains of industry and politics are overwhelmingly men. The genes are whispering. For women, it is not so.

Tanaqui
11-23-2010, 07:02 AM
You know those classy-porn websites that show nothing but women entertaining themselves, right? Have you ever wondered why thereís no male equivalent? Umm, no. Because there are plenty of solo pornography videos depicting men. I don't know if there's a specific site or sites dedicated to it, but I'd be very surprised if there weren't. You know, I don't want to shock you or anything, but they even have videos showing men having sex with each other these days! :o

even sven
11-23-2010, 08:14 AM
But a woman...the biggest problem she'd have is being taken seriously. If she could be taken seriously most guys would be willing. I don't consider myself highly sexed, and yet any woman that's at least average-looking and wanted sex, no strings attached...sure, why not?

Statistically, half of women are below average looking.

Take a trip to WalMart and you'll probably see a number of women who cannot have sex at will- grossly overweight, hairy, aging and just-plain-ugly faced women are still women and might desire or seek out sexual companionship. But there comes a point when you fall below the men you are attracted to's minimum standards, and your option is to lower your standards (anything with a stick!) or not have sex.

I think the disconnect here is women over 40, the morbidly obese, etc. are just not being considered as "eligible women" in this discussion, while men with simliar drawbacks are being considered as "eligible men."

Most women have at least a couple stories about a time they got shot down. I'm reasonably good looking and have had my share of rejection. It happens.

ColdPhoenix
11-23-2010, 08:24 AM
But there comes a point when you fall below the men you are attracted to's minimum standards, and your option is to lower your standards (anything with a stick!) or not have sex.

This is the point. A lot of men don't have standards when it comes to a drunken one night stand.

I've had attractive, male friends in their 20's go home with drunk, fat and unattractive women in their 40s and 50s just because they know they can get an easy lay.

They could probably have got a more attractive woman if they'd tried but often these ladies know that being forward and almost grabbing a mans cock will basically get them pushed away a few times and taken to bed eventually. They think, why try when a women falls in your lap (literally) that will do the job.

If a man tried that he'd be slapped, blogged about and publicly chastised.

I don't think it's right for a man or woman to act like that but it happens a lot.

kombatminipig
11-23-2010, 10:26 AM
No, actually we can't. We can't walk up to a man who we think is really attractive, and say "Let's get it on", he might be in a relationship, he might not be into women at all, and he might not like to be approached by a woman. Or he might not be attracted to the particular woman who approaches him. But no. We can usually get laid by SOMEONE almost immediately...if we lower our standards enough. But the same is true of men.

You have remarkable experience of being a man trying to get laid. From one who has been, no it wasn't. Not until I learnt a ton of song and dance and psychology and a fair bit of improvisational acting, which is what hooking up with a stranger basically is.

CanvasShoes
11-23-2010, 10:44 AM
You've just been visiting the wrong web sites.
And/or haven't read "My Secret Garden". :)

Giraffe
11-23-2010, 11:01 AM
Sex toys are like wheelchairs: when people need them, we're impressed with your bravery in the face of adversity. Since most women are handicapped, masturbatorily speaking, their use of sex toys highlights them as brave little troopers, the Tiny Tims of the whacking off Christmas Carol, soldering on in the face of orgasm adversity.

If you're a guy using a sex toy, it's either because you suck at masturbation or you're way, way too into it. You're the lazy neckbeard riding the disability scooter through Walmart because years of World of Warcraft have left your leg muscles atrophied and useless. Society has, and should have, nothing but scorn for you.

Anaamika
11-23-2010, 11:15 AM
Sure, women can sleep with anyone they want. As long as they are willing to sleep with anyone. I hate that diea - that if I wanted, and I somehow met a Jude Law-look alike in a bar, I would be able to fuck him. No, he wouldn't even look at me because he can get Sienna Miller or any number of hot lookalikes.

Maeglin
11-23-2010, 11:21 AM
Sex toys are like wheelchairs: when people need them, we're impressed with your bravery in the face of adversity. Since most women are handicapped, masturbatorily speaking, their use of sex toys highlights them as brave little troopers, the Tiny Tims of the whacking off Christmas Carol, soldering on in the face of orgasm adversity.

If you're a guy using a sex toy, it's either because you suck at masturbation or you're way, way too into it. You're the lazy neckbeard riding the disability scooter through Walmart because years of World of Warcraft have left your leg muscles atrophied and useless. Society has, and should have, nothing but scorn for you.

ivn1188, is that you?

Czarcasm
11-23-2010, 11:36 AM
I think the major difference is the climax. I might be wrong, but I think the percentage of women that have a easier time climaxing with a sex aid than with a man is higher then the opposite. I have heard many women say that, while they enjoy sex with their male partner, they usually have to "finish the job" themselves-something I have never heard said by a male of the species. Also, I think that sex aids are used more by female same-sex couples than by male same-sex couples.

Peeta Mellark
11-23-2010, 11:38 AM
Sex toys are like wheelchairs: when people need them, we're impressed with your bravery in the face of adversity. Since most women are handicapped, masturbatorily speaking, their use of sex toys highlights them as brave little troopers, the Tiny Tims of the whacking off Christmas Carol, soldering on in the face of orgasm adversity.

If you're a guy using a sex toy, it's either because you suck at masturbation or you're way, way too into it. You're the lazy neckbeard riding the disability scooter through Walmart because years of World of Warcraft have left your leg muscles atrophied and useless. Society has, and should have, nothing but scorn for you.

You, sir, are my message board god.

Sattua
11-23-2010, 11:47 AM
But I've never known a handsome, "sane" guy to sit around complaining that he can't get any because none of the women he meets have a big enough rack or are into the same things as him- they'll sit around complaining that whilst they're getting some, their current FWB isn't into the same stuff as them or has expensive tastes or whatever.

I've never known a beautiful, sane woman to sit around bitching about not being able to find someone, either. Smart, beautiful, sane--pick two out of the three.

There are a TON of guys who sit around bitching that they can't get a woman... who meets their standards. Usually they're pasty puffy gamers looking for Lara Croft. They start threads with titles like "Why don't women like nice guys?" and "Why do women only want jerks?"

Mijin
11-23-2010, 12:00 PM
I think the disconnect here is women over 40, the morbidly obese, etc. are just not being considered as "eligible women" in this discussion, while men with simliar drawbacks are being considered as "eligible men."


But that's probably inspired by the differences in what attracts men and women. (More generalizations coming...)

For a woman to be "ineligable" for sex for many guys, she has to be old or morbidly obese, as you say. And even then, it's not that no men are willing to sleep with them, just that most aren't.

OTOH looks don't tend to rule guys out (unless we take it to a whole *other* extreme). The things that would blacklist a guy would be nervousness, lack of confidence / experience and generally needing to be "led".
Of course some women are happy to have a one-night stand with a 40 year old virgin who seems nervous as hell. Just that most aren't.


Most women have at least a couple stories about a time they got shot down. I'm reasonably good looking and have had my share of rejection. It happens.

I'm not saying women never get rejected, I'm saying that there's a fundamental asymmetry in attraction, and it's kinda frustrating in these conversations that women often insist that it's just the same for them.

I'm going to open the door to ridicule here, but I am someone that has only got to grips with dating quite late in life, despite being reasonably good looking (I've done modelling work).
And no, I don't think it's because I'm an arrogant jerk, or whatever (as people may assume when I mention modelling); I've always had lots of women friends. It's just that to be "boyfriend" rather than "friend" involves me acting in a way that never came naturally to me.

even sven
11-23-2010, 12:49 PM
OTOH looks don't tend to rule guys out (unless we take it to a whole *other* extreme). The things that would blacklist a guy would be nervousness, lack of confidence / experience and generally needing to be "led"."]OTOH looks don't tend to rule guys out (unless we take it to a whole *other* extreme). The things that would blacklist a guy would be nervousness, lack of confidence / experience and generally needing to be "led".

Looks play a bigger role than you'd think. I think the difference is that women have a wider range of "looks" they find attractive. Men, generally, overwhelming prefer one or two body types, one age age range, etc. But one woman may prefer muscly guys while another prefers slim ones. I like shorter, slim, baby-faced guys. My best friend prefers larger and more mature looking guys. I find her ideal unattractive, and vice versa. But together we cover a pretty wide spread, even if we are individually pretty picky.

If you think women don't care about looks, try being a shorter Asian guy for a while. I lived in China for two years, and I know only a few Western women who dated Chinese men, while tons of guys were dating Chinese women. The "why we don't date Chinese guys" conversation was always about looks, height and body type, never about money or personalities.

Of course men can overcome looks by sheer force of personality. Women can do that, too. There are plenty of women who are just smoking hot sexy even if they are objectively less attractive than the other girls around them.

It's just that to be "boyfriend" rather than "friend" involves me acting in a way that never came naturally to me.

Women do this, too.

Seriously. When I got back to the States, I decided it was time to find a man friend. I started tweaking my behavior just slightly, in ways that I'd observed men are attracted to. It worked like a charm. Amazingly, a lot of the stuff guys compliment me on are the bullshit fake stuff I'm doing because I know it will lure them in.

For example, I realized guys tend to like a touch of high maintenance...something that seems counter-intuitive to laid-back me. So I started doing little touches, like getting my nails done professionally instead of doing it myself. Suddenly, guys were coming to me fascinated, saying they loved how I "take care of myself." Not much changed...I wasn't a hideous beast before and I don't think guys really consciously care about how nails look if they are clean and not a mess. But there are touches you can do that subliminally make guys think "this women has high status."

We do this stuff.

We're all playing a game. It may not be the exact same game- yours involves a bit more swagger, and mine involves a bit more high heels, but it's working hard to make yourself attractive in some way to the opposite sex. I work hard to maintain my sexual attractiveness- both physically and through my actions.

I'm not impressed by people telling me how haaaaaaaaaard it is to be a guy, when I spend a serious amount of time and money maintaining myself. Attractive women are not just sitting on their duff while the men gravitate towards them. It's work.

Mijin
11-23-2010, 01:35 PM
Women do this, too.


I don't want to belabour the point, because it's a hijack anyway.

But no, I maintain that there is a much bigger difference between the roles the two genders play than make up vs designer stubble.

I'll try to dig out a cite in a bit, but I remember reading psychology research about people who are exceptionally shy when it comes to relationships.
They found that women with the condition have essentially "normal" love lives (or at least, no statistically higher chance of having difficulties).
Men with the condition meanwhile, essentially have no relationships at all, until they seek therapy.

Malacandra
11-24-2010, 01:16 AM
Just checking in to say: nice use of the subjunctive in the thread title. :cool:

Argent Towers
11-24-2010, 01:23 AM
They found that women with the condition have essentially "normal" love lives (or at least, no statistically higher chance of having difficulties).
Men with the condition meanwhile, essentially have no relationships at all, until they seek therapy.

You don't need to dig out research, it's simple common sense. In our society, men are the initiators of relationships; men are expected to make the first move. A good looking woman who has no social confidence and doesn't know how to talk to people will have men come to her and initiate relationships; she just has to follow their lead. And maybe, if she's really horrendously socially-handicapped and incapable of talking to people, the relationships won't work out, but at least she'll get relationship experience of some kind.

Even a very handsome guy who has the same level of social confidence we're talking about here will not be approached by women; I mean, sure, maybe it'd happen, but it's unlikely.

toofs
11-24-2010, 04:53 AM
For a long-term partner yes there are standards. For a one night stand a surprisingly large number of men don't really care. Add in alcohol and you'd be surprised by the number of men who would hump fatty, drunken, bad teeth mama in the corner to et a bit of poontang on a night out.

I'm not saying the majority would but enough that the vast majority of girls could get laid if they wanted.

"Any hole's a goal" has often been said on a night out.

Ah, yes, the time honored tradition of getting the guys together to hit the bars for a night of "hogging."

LouisB
11-24-2010, 07:03 AM
Reading this thread from the vantage point of my advanced age makes me realize that sex is truly a 'tempest in a tea pot.'

The hell it does.

It makes me wish I were young once more.

Mijin
11-24-2010, 07:40 AM
Even a very handsome guy who has the same level of social confidence we're talking about here will not be approached by women; I mean, sure, maybe it'd happen, but it's unlikely.

Plus, what do we mean by "approach"?
I don't doubt that plenty of times women make first contact. Or (different point) that many men will only approach women that have given some kind of signal first.

But still, to create a relationship from nothing, there's plenty of things the guy must do. The guy essentially leads in starting a relationship, women don't like having to lead the guy.

even sven
11-24-2010, 09:05 AM
But still, to create a relationship from nothing, there's plenty of things the guy must do. The guy essentially leads in starting a relationship, women don't like having to lead the guy.

If a woman is interested in a specific guy, and she doesn't happen to be so stunningly beautiful that all men basically gravitate towards here, there are things she has to do, too. If you just sit there looking pretty, you might catch somebody's attention. But there is a good chance that person is not someone you are attracted to. It can actually be pretty frustrating just kind of hoping that the guy you want will just happen to come to you. It becomes a fine balance learning how to call the right kind and amount of attention to yourself.

While being shy is not as large of a relationship handicap, women have other traits that can make them difficult to date. What if you happen to be the type that doesn't enjoy getting dolled up? The girl with no make-up, hair in a ponytail, and sensible flats is not going to have the same dating prospects as the girl who knows how to make herself look good- and that is a huge time and money investment. An aggressive and slightly crude woman is probably going to face the same obstacles as a shy guy does.

I know it's not the same, but it's a game that takes a lot of energy for both sides. The whole "women have it so easy" line gets frustrating for me. At least the stuff guys have to do is under their control....if a woman isn't born good looking, there is not much she can do about that!

Cat Fight
11-24-2010, 11:06 AM
You don't need to dig out research, it's simple common sense. In our society, men are the initiators of relationships; men are expected to make the first move. A good looking woman who has no social confidence and doesn't know how to talk to people will have men come to her and initiate relationships; she just has to follow their lead. And maybe, if she's really horrendously socially-handicapped and incapable of talking to people, the relationships won't work out, but at least she'll get relationship experience of some kind.

Or, if she's really lucky, the guy won't exclaim 'Hey, any hole's a goal!' right after sex. While I don't think either extreme is to be envied, having to make the first move or having to wait until it's made, being told you have the luxury of waiting to get hit on (or asked on a date, or asked for your hand in marriage) isn't really that fabulous if you're a proactive kind of woman. Luckily I think, little by little, some of these norms are fading, and the kind of guy who thinks a woman's a slut for making the first move probably shouldn't be with her, and the kind of woman who thinks a guy's weak for not demanding she go out on a date shouldn't be with him.

But back to the OP...

You know those classy-porn websites that show nothing but women entertaining themselves, right? Have you ever wondered why thereís no male equivalent?

No? You havenít?

Neither has anyone else. Ever. Chick-on-same-chick action is sexy, dude-on-same is not.

Dude, let me introduce you to the internet. It was practically made for gay people, including lonely guys alone in their small towns or wherever else on the planet and in the closet. Masturbating on webcam is some guys' bread and butter, and many guys' (and a few girls') favorite thing to watch online. There's tons of it. Much of it consensual, mutual and free. And, just as with a woman masturbating or even two women having sex, some people like it on its own and some people need another guy involved to get off on it. But it exists. In spades.

Mijin
11-24-2010, 11:13 AM
The whole "women have it so easy" line gets frustrating for me.


I would never put it like that.
Especially since, as I alluded earlier, women preferentially go for Mr Unobtanium -- the more girls a guy appears to have chasing him, the more attractive he becomes.
So a woman's attraction can push her down the road to frustration as surely as a guy's.


At least the stuff guys have to do is under their control....if a woman isn't born good looking, there is not much she can do about that!

It's not as much under control as you think. Basically, there are men with lots of experience and confidence that are more likely to have positive experiences. And there are men who lack confidence and their lame attempts at seduction are likely to be embarrassing and to drop their confidence further.

As mentioned, I have some history here. For years I had the choice of being in the Friend Zone, or nothing. It was very frustrating for me: I know you like how I look, because of the way you acted when we first met. And I know you like me as a person, because we're good friends now. What the hell else is there!?
(I didn't ever verbalize the preceding :))

Rigamarole
11-24-2010, 11:19 AM
As mentioned, I have some history here. For years I had the choice of being in the Friend Zone, or nothing. It was very frustrating for me: I know you like how I look, because of the way you acted when we first met. And I know you like me as a person, because we're good friends now. What the hell else is there!?

You making the first move. The girl almost never will. You have to understand that.

Czarcasm
11-24-2010, 11:47 AM
Back to the actual topic.
A lot of men find it a turn on when they find out that a woman has sex aids/toys in her bedroom. How do you ladies react to finding male-oriented sex aids/toys in his bedroom?

MostlyClueless
11-24-2010, 12:35 PM
A lot of men find it a turn on when they find out that a woman has sex aids/toys in her bedroom.
I dunno. Somehow I recall some agony aunt letters along the lines of 'my boyfriend won't let me have a vibrator because it makes him think his dick is inadequate'.

Lynn Bodoni
11-24-2010, 01:00 PM
Back to the actual topic.
A lot of men find it a turn on when they find out that a woman has sex aids/toys in her bedroom. How do you ladies react to finding male-oriented sex aids/toys in his bedroom? Mostly I shrug it off. I surf a lot more than my husband does, and if I find some (free) images that I think he'd like, I send him the links in his private email...NOT his work email! :eek: Mostly, he appreciates this. He likes busty brunettes, for the most part. He likes the occasional blonde or redhead, but it's mostly white or Latina or Asian brunettes that he likes.

gaffa
11-24-2010, 02:38 PM
Mostly I shrug it off. I surf a lot more than my husband does, and if I find some (free) images that I think he'd like, I send him the links in his private email...NOT his work email! :eek: Mostly, he appreciates this. He likes busty brunettes, for the most part. He likes the occasional blonde or redhead, but it's mostly white or Latina or Asian brunettes that he likes.
I've never met you, but hopefully you are a busty brunette.

My wife is slightly bi (though she has never acted upon it) and appreciates female beauty.

I would never put it like that.
Especially since, as I alluded earlier, women preferentially go for Mr Unobtanium -- the more girls a guy appears to have chasing him, the more attractive he becomes.
I can't remember the comedian's name, but he had a really great bit: "It's not that you women don't want to fuck guys. The problem is you all want to fuck the same guy."

As mentioned, I have some history here. For years I had the choice of being in the Friend Zone, or nothing. It was very frustrating for me: I know you like how I look, because of the way you acted when we first met. And I know you like me as a person, because we're good friends now. What the hell else is there!?
(I didn't ever verbalize the preceding :))
In the years before I met my wife, I was constantly in the Friend Zone. I probably would have wound up there with my wife if I hadn't, very uncharacteristically, made a move. I had managed to lose my virginity before then, but it was to a very aggressive, drunk girl.

kimera
11-24-2010, 07:26 PM
There are plenty of male masturbation videos on the web, and there are entire websites devoted to male masturbation. Men consume the majority of visual porn at the moment, but women are steadily catching up and, on the female-majority porn sites I visit, male masturbation videos/pictures are common.

While I'm hardly a connoisseur of masturbation videos, I've noticed that toys are primarily used by individuals penetrating themselves. I've seen men masturbating into toys, but primarily the toys end up in the guy/girl's body. Since straight men are less likely to want to experience penetration and it's seen as 'gay' to be penetrated, men aren't supposed to want sex toys. I've also noticed that my gay friends are far more likely to use all sorts of sex toys.

Furthermore, I've thankfully never dated a guy of this time, but a significant portion of men feel threatened by female sex toys. In some of the sex positive communities I hang out, we constantly have posts from guys and girls who are finding it difficult to accept that the woman can't just come without help from things such as vibrators. It's considered empowering for a woman to have these sex toys because people want to get rid of the notion that women are supposed to be able to come through penetration, and we want to make both men and women think that women aren't defective or broken when they require the aid of a vibrator to orgasm.

Lynn Bodoni
11-25-2010, 01:17 AM
Since straight men are less likely to want to experience penetration and it's seen as 'gay' to be penetrated, men aren't supposed to want sex toys. There are masturbation sleeves/pocket pussies which are intended to be penetrated, and the blow up dolls. Plus, of course, the notorious blow up sheep.

Olentzero
11-25-2010, 01:23 AM
Well, I'm gonna throw in on this one with two anecdotes, more or less.

There is a Canadian cartoonist of my acquaintance (gonzo type) who is married and has freely admitted to having a Fleshlight. His wife knows and approves - mainly because (as in any relationship) there are times when he's in the mood and she isn't. Simple solution. No idea whether she has any toys, though I'm quite certain he wouldn't deny her the same courtesy. I suspect there are far fewer occasions when she's in the mood and he isn't. So here's an instance where the use of a sex toy for men has absolutely no bearing on the person's sex life or ability to bed the sex partner of his choice.

As for my second anecdote - I have one. I'm currently not in a relationship and am working on a bunch of other stuff that takes a lot of my attention and energy, so a relationship wouldn't be all that successful right now. And, frankly, I've found it to be a tool of survival. For me, it's a potent stress reliever (world of difference in sensations compared to the standard method) and it really doesn't take any more time to wash than most sex toys for women. As for whether it's 'shameful' or brands me as a 'loser' or whatnot, that's a load of crap and I couldn't care less what some people might think. Ultimately - outside of this discussion - my sex life is none of their goddamned business unless they choose to actively involve themselves in it.

ColdPhoenix
11-25-2010, 02:50 AM
I have one.

Isn't it quicker, easier and, ultimately, just as satisfying to just bash one out using your hands like most men?

Olentzero
11-25-2010, 03:27 AM
Do you want to help out? Otherwise, as stated - none of your goddamned business.

ColdPhoenix
11-25-2010, 03:29 AM
I didn't mean to offend but was genuinely curious. As you'd brought it up in the thread I assumed you may be willing to discuss.

You aggressive response indicates otherwise.

Olentzero
11-25-2010, 03:33 AM
Well, answer me this, then - would you consider asking the same thing of a woman?

ETA I did, in fact, answer your question even before you asked it - got no patience for people who can't be bothered to read carefully.

ColdPhoenix
11-25-2010, 03:43 AM
I have discussed it a female friend in the past and know why she uses a vibrator. I don't know if any of my male friends use toys.

It just seems to me that a vibrator can make things easier for women but that it's more work for men to use their equivalents (set-up and cleaning after etc?).

Perhaps I don't understand the mechanics, perhaps it's more enjoyable, I don't know. That's why I asked.

Olentzero
11-25-2010, 03:59 AM
Well, all right, points for your consistency. Doesn't mean she was obliged to answer your questions, either.

I did address your questions briefly in my first post here, which is all the detail I care to go into since that's not the point of this thread. The point is to discuss why it's viewed as shameful, and I came in with two anecdotes showing that sexually healthy men do in fact use toys, and to argue that people who do think it's shameful or that it brands such men as losers and sexually inadequate are full of shit and are sticking their noses into someone else's business where they have no real right to. Without straying into Cesario territory, who or what anyone chooses to fuck is really not the business of anyone who's not playing along.

ColdPhoenix
11-25-2010, 04:13 AM
I see that you did address my points in your original post. My bad for skim reading!

Olentzero
11-25-2010, 04:19 AM
Fair enough, pardon the brusqueness. Kinda developed the habit from discussing my political beliefs around here.

Martini Enfield
11-25-2010, 05:01 AM
If I might further venture another possible reason germane to the OP, from informal discussions with my (male) friends, there seems to be a sort of general assumption that since a dick is obviously better than a vibrator*, a woman with a vibrator is obviously a horny minx who likes sex, and since (generic) you are there, instead of using a vibrator to satisfy herself, she'll want you instead.

Thus, women owning sex toys is "empowering" and hot and all that sort of thing because it says that said women likes sex (there still being a double standard at play, sadly) whereas it's just assumed that guys like sex in much the same way that fish like water.

Also- and I'm really just throwing a baseless hypothesis out there- there's a double standard that generally says "Woman into kinky/freaky stuff= Hot, Guy into kinky/freaky stuff= Degenerate pervert".

*part of the overall assumption explanation, not intended to be a statement or declaration of fact

velvetjones
11-25-2010, 08:18 AM
the Tiny Tims of the whacking off Christmas Carol, soldering on in the face of orgasm adversity.

I just read this out loud to my husband, over coffee, on Thanksgiving day. Truly the best laugh I've had in a long, long time. In the spirit of Thanksgiving, Thank you Giraffe Thank you so very much. :D

Koxinga
11-25-2010, 08:31 AM
Fair enough, pardon the brusqueness. Kinda developed the habit from discussing my political beliefs around here.

So, do you have a name for your "device"? Betty? I'll bet it's Betty.

oooooooooooh Betty

Koxinga
11-25-2010, 08:38 AM
I'm sorry, never mind the last post -- I would have edited with a "nm" if I had gone back in time. When I can see people are touchy about a subject I'm sometimes like a kid with a stick standing over an anthill.

Olentzero
11-25-2010, 09:30 AM
Not touchy about the subject at all. More touchy about people's reactions. So why don't you put down the stick and find something better to do with your hands, m'kay? Otherwise I might have a very good idea of what I would name it if I felt it should have a name...

Darth Nader
11-30-2010, 12:09 AM
So why don't you put down the stick and find something better to do with your hands, m'kay?

I could do amazing things to you with these hands, but this is a thread that was started by some underage needledick flyfucker.

Being mean with words is FUN, right?

Spectre of Pithecanthropus
11-30-2010, 11:28 PM
I could do amazing things to you with these hands, but this is a thread that was started by some underage needledick flyfucker.

Being mean with words is FUN, right?

Moderator note:

Darth Narder: It's also against the rules if it is done in this forum, or anywhere else on this message board but the Pit. Do not do this again.

The rest of you: I know this can be a touchy topic, but please try to keep it calm in here.

For the Straight Dope,

Spectre of Pithecanthropus

Darth Nader
12-01-2010, 09:45 PM
Apologies. I thought this was in the Pit, for some reason. My comments were waaaay over the line here, and I regret posting so inappropriately.

Again, sorry to everyone- particularly Olentzero.

Darth Nader
12-01-2010, 09:57 PM
Also, can I change my name to Darth Narder?

Woeg
12-03-2010, 12:49 PM
Man here, and owner of a Fleshlight. I don't find it shameful in the least - I bought it after I separated with my now ex-wife, because I wasn't emotionally ready for the "real" thing, and I had heard good things about the Fleshlight.

And the good things are true! The feeling is totally different from the "standard" method of masturbation, and far, far closer to the "real" thing than I would have thought possible. The orgasms I have with the Fleshlight tend to be a lot stronger than the ones I have through the old-fashioned method, and totally worth the cleanup effort afterwards.

When I got with the lovely lady who is now my new wife, I found less and less need to use it - she is thankfully as sexually voracious as I am, and its only rarely that I have to literally take matters into my own hands. And in such cases, the old-fashioned way *is* the quicker, cleaner option. That said, I still break out the toy from time to time, and my wife enjoys using it on me or watching as we both play seperate but together. Still, it sits far more than I use it these days.

Long story short, regardless of how others may perceive it, I found my Fleshlight toy to be incredibly personally empowering - it allowed me to get through the hardest parts (pun intended) of an emotionally abusive relationship's end, without having to go through the rollercoaster of danger and emotion of one-night stands.

If anyone has questions, btw, ask. Like I said, I feel no shame about it, and am not touchy about it in the slightest. No, I haven't named it. ;)

A brief addendum to add: I'm definitely not a model; I'm overweight, prematurely gray, and wear glasses/corrective lens. That said, I've *never* had trouble getting laid. I am, generally, extremely confident and outgoing, and that seems to be a huge key to attraction for most women. That could be why I don't find using a toy shameful - it's always been about release, not desperation.

Huh...maybe that's why the difference in some perceptions? For most women, using a sex toy is about release, where as many men feel their own use of one is out of desperation, a feeling that is often linked to shame?

Edited for grammatical error.