Why don't we use daiko taxis in the U.S.?

[SavageBob]

So, I'm making plans for a night out drinking beer and singing karaoke with some friends this weekend. Of course, I live in the U.S., so the question has to arise: Who will be the designated driver? Unless we all take cabs (expensive where I live), someone's gotta do it, right?

However, I used to live in Japan, and there, they have a system called "daiko." Basically, you and your friends drive yourselves wherever you're going and get drunk. Then you call the daiko taxi, and it arrives with both a driver and a passenger inside. The passenger then drives your car home with you in it while his buddy follows. Once safely home, the passenger gets back into the original cab, and everyone's home safely. These taxis cost more than a regular cab, but they cost less than a cab ride to and from the venue would cost.

Great idea, I say! Why don't we have them in the U.S.? Is it some sort of insurance thing? Do these exist in other countries?

[Darryl Lict]

I know I've heard of at least one taxi service that tosses a scooter into the trunk and drives your car home, and then departs on the scooter. A Google search shows this one (http://www.thesunnews.com/2010/07/02/1565605/sober-or-scooter.html), even though it's not the one I was thinking of.

I'm thinking that there are probably some liability problems with driving unknown people's cars. Certainly one could not guarantee the safety of an arbitrary car.

The proprietor got the idea from European dudes.

[EKDS5k]

Around here every Christmas season we have a thing called Operation Red Nose, where you call the number, and then volunteers will show up and drive you home in your car (and then leave in their car). In BC the insurance is provided by ICBC, the government insurance company and is completely separate from the owner's insurance, but I've seen this program in other provinces too. That's the only one I know of for sure, and it's only on weekends in November and December, but I've heard of other companies that do it year round.

I also don't imagine that it would be too difficult for a company providing this service to get an insurance policy that would cover the clients' cars.

[Derleth]

Sometimes, the only answer is 'because nobody's tried it yet', which is how we get successful start-up companies.

[GreasyJack]

A company here tried it for a while (both the passenger in the cab and the scooter one), but the trouble is that it in practice it often becomes such a logistical hassle that it ends up taking significantly longer than a normal pickup-dropoff call. Since most of your driving drunks home business comes in the hour or two around closing time, that's when cabs need to be working the most efficiently and trying to work out logistics with drunks just isn't very condusive to that.

I suspect that the city in Japan in question doesn't have a last call, so there isn't that mad rush and so it's not a big deal if things take a little longer.

[GiantRat]

Where I used to live, on/around certain holidays (like Christmas and Thanksgiving), the city would pay for cab fare if you were leaving a bar and said you were intoxicated.

Pretty cool idea, except I swear that most of the cab drivers were drunk/stoned/whatever. We were fortunate enough that there was usually someone who would be a designated driver (or, in a pinch, we'd just call a more responsible family member - thanks pops).

I've also, on occasion, used the police department (dad was a cop). One of my stomping grounds was right by the police station, and I'd walk in and say "I'm Johnny Law's son... I really shouldn't be driving." This was when I was in college, and I'd often have to sit and wait for a while (like they have something better to do than give the boss's drunk kid a ride home... crime, schmime).

[Derleth]

Pretty cool idea, except I swear that most of the cab drivers were drunk/stoned/whatever.I'd believe they were just really tired from all the extra work. Driving tired is driving impaired, and it can easily have the same end result as driving drunk or stoned.

[BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed]

I suspect that the city in Japan in question doesn't have a last call, so there isn't that mad rush and so it's not a big deal if things take a little longer.

Even tiny cities have daiko in Japan-- they're virtually everywhere. But you raise a good point about a lack of last call. I've often wondered why the states doesn't do daiko, and the best I've been able to come up with is that Americans aren't comfortable with other people touching their cars.

[J-P L]

Around here every Christmas season we have a thing called Operation Red Nose.

Ottawa has essentially the same setup, it may even be called the same!

[Antigen]

Ottawa has essentially the same setup, it may even be called the same!

Montreal too (http://www.operationnezrouge.com/en/cont.asp?f=249).

The thing with these outfits is that they're free. The drivers volunteer. Donations are encouraged, but the program is paid for by sponsors, if I recall correctly. There are at least two people involved, one to drive his own car and one to drive the "client's" car, and sometimes there's a third person to ride with the client as a safety measure and/or as a navigator. So even if we're getting the drunks to pay their own way, it's hard to imagine that these two (or three) taxi folks will be able to make decent money.

[anson2995]

I can't imagine there'd be much demand for this service. Why wouldn't you take a taxi to your destination in the first place?

In cities like New York where taxi service is ubiquitous, fewer people drive themselves places. And vice versa.

[jz78817]

we have this available:

http://www.thedesignate.com/

[FluffyBob]

There have been year round driving services in Calgary for years. They leave business cards at bars and have the ads in the Yellow Pages, above urinals.

Yeay for Entrepreneurs!

[aruvqan]

I can't imagine there'd be much demand for this service. Why wouldn't you take a taxi to your destination in the first place?

In cities like New York where taxi service is ubiquitous, fewer people drive themselves places. And vice versa.

oddly enough there are many communities in the US that don't have taxis at all. if I wanted a taxi I would have to find a call out service from a town 15 miles away, and not every taxi company has 'out of zone' permits.

[wolfman]

They do have this in metro Detroit area. I don't know anyone who has ever used it, and I think it costs 60or 80 bucks.

I'd imagine it would have the same problem calling a normal taxi on any big night(New years, St. Paddy's etc.) There isn't enough demand the rest of the year to keep that many employees, so if you called on one of those nights it would be a 5 hour wait for one to make it there.

[Renee]

Two relevant factors, I think, are population density and DUI laws.

When we lived on Okinawa, we used Diakos all the time. Here, I'd pretty much never consider taking a taxi of any sort to my house, because we're 30 miles away from any real metropolitan area--I'd guess any taxi ride to our house would cost a minimum of $100 and I don't even know who I'd call to find one.

But the main thing, I think, is that you cannot drink AT ALL and drive in Japan. The blood alcohol level for DUI is .03 there, and if you get stopped with that, everyone in the car gets a DUI. When we were there, last year, that meant a $10,000 fine for everyone in the car (this actually happened to a group of military guys--one of their buddies, who had not been drinking, went to pick up the group at a bar. He had one beer, and drove them back, got caught they all got DUIs). Here, I'd think nothing of driving after a drink or two, and it wouldn't be illegal because my BAL would be fine. So, if I'm the designated driver with friends, I can still have a drink, I just can't get drunk.

[scr4]

Two relevant factors, I think, are population density and DUI laws.

Not just the DUI law themselves, but the way they are enforced. In Japan I ran into sobriety checkpoints quite often. They stop every single car and check the driver's breath for smell of alcohol. I've never been checked for DUI in the US.

[Mops]

How much does a daiko taxi ride cost compared with a regular taxi ride between the same end points? The competing model would be a regular taxi ride home and another regular taxi ride in the morning to pick up your car.

[jz78817]

They do have this in metro Detroit area. I don't know anyone who has ever used it, and I think it costs 60or 80 bucks.



$80 is better than a DUI (or worse!)

[friedo]

$80 is better than a DUI (or worse!)

Choosing a designated driver or taking a cab there and back is likely cheaper than $80, though.

[Musicat]

I know I've heard of at least one taxi service that tosses a scooter into the trunk and drives your car home, and then departs on the scooter.I wonder how well that works in the rain or snow.

And my 50cc scooter can't possibly fit in the trunk of a standard sedan without bashing it to fit.

[aruvqan]

Choosing a designated driver or taking a cab there and back is likely cheaper than $80, though.

MrAru tended to be the designated driver back in his navy days, he liked the all he could swill coffee for free that he got =) and I tend to be the designated driver because I cant drink any longer, so it works out just fine =)

[Darryl Lict]

In this town, we've also had an unusual service that you could get your car towed home for free by a local towing company on certain super drunken holidays. This was an amazingly great concept. I actually know someone who was able to take advantage of this service (well, it took like 3 hours).

On the other hand, it's impossible to flag down a cab on Halloween, New Years, Solstice, or Fiesta at closing time. It was just that more difficult to get a tow truck to come and haul your sorry ass and your car home.

[Spoons]

Not just the DUI law themselves, but the way they are enforced. In Japan I ran into sobriety checkpoints quite often. They stop every single car and check the driver's breath for smell of alcohol. I've never been checked for DUI in the US.They have sobriety checkpoints here also, where they stop every car. They can occur year-round, but they seem most common during December and big sports events like the Super Bowl. But like the other Canadian cities mentioned above, we have Operation Red Nose and the outfits that drive you home in your own car. And, if you're off to something like a Super Bowl party at a sports bar, you just might decide to take a cab both ways, and leave the car at home.

[t-bonham@scc.net]

I've often wondered why the states doesn't do daiko, and the best I've been able to come up with is that Americans aren't comfortable with other people touching their cars.Plus there are a lot of legal liability issues.

Suppose the drunk doesn't have valid insurance on his car? (About 25% of drivers don't, and those who drink to drunkeness are more likely to be in that group.) If the car is stopped by police while you are driving it, you are guilty of driving an uninsured vehicle, and can have your license suspended (and telling the judge "but this drunk guy said he had insurance" won't help).

If you get in any kind of an accident, the drunk guy can sue you for damages to his car (or even just the deductible).

[Capt. Ridley's Shooting Party]

Plus there are a lot of legal liability issues.

Suppose the drunk doesn't have valid insurance on his car? (About 25% of drivers don't, and those who drink to drunkeness are more likely to be in that group.) If the car is stopped by police while you are driving it, you are guilty of driving an uninsured vehicle, and can have your license suspended (and telling the judge "but this drunk guy said he had insurance" won't help).

If you get in any kind of an accident, the drunk guy can sue you for damages to his car (or even just the deductible).

Can't imagine that this is any more of a problem in the US than in the UK, which also has similar services to the "daiko" available. (I've seen adverts for them in pubs.) Further, the UK also has "last orders" like the US, so again, that isn't the reason why the US isn't implementing similar services.

[SanVito]

Can't imagine that this is any more of a problem in the US than in the UK, which also has similar services to the "daiko" available. (I've seen adverts for them in pubs.) Further, the UK also has "last orders" like the US, so again, that isn't the reason why the US isn't implementing similar services.

One such service is Scooterman (http://www.scooterman.co.uk/). His scooter is folding so it can fit in most boots, although I doubt you could fit it in the boot of my mini.

[Derleth]

oddly enough there are many communities in the US that don't have taxis at all.This isn't odd when you realize the minimum population density for a taxi service to be profitable is only rarely reached in this country. This makes drunk driving a significant problem in rural areas, where there's a good saloon in every single town (http://www.cowboylyrics.com/tabs/williams-lucinda/return-of-grevious-angel-351.html) but the nearest city big enough to have a taxi service is many hours away.

This has historically had significant consequences for Montana, which was the worst state for DUI in 2007 (http://www.forbes.com/2008/11/20/driving-drunk-highway-forbeslife-cx_sw_1120drunk.html); it has 80% of its traffic on rural roads. Therefore, regardless of how successful this is, it can't make much of a dent in America's overall DUI problem.

[SavageBob]

Thanks for all the replies, folks. It sounds like the existence of similar services in the UK and Canada (and possibly a few U.S. cities) means that something like this could work in the U.S., just that for some reason it's not as economically feasible. I wonder if something like this might be successful in a semi-rural or suburban area, where regular taxis are much rarer, and where DUI rates are higher because everyone wants to drive his or her own car or truck to the bar. If a company could get folks over the "Don't touch my car, stranger!" factor, it just might work with just a small staff of drivers/co-drivers.

[Leaffan]

In this town, we've also had an unusual service that you could get your car towed home for free by a local towing company on certain super drunken holidays. This was an amazingly great concept. I actually know someone who was able to take advantage of this service (well, it took like 3 hours).

On the other hand, it's impossible to flag down a cab on Halloween, New Years, Solstice, or Fiesta at closing time. It was just that more difficult to get a tow truck to come and haul your sorry ass and your car home.

I had friends who used to call a tow truck a few times a year; it was almost the same price as a taxi, and when you awoke, your car was in the driveway. Brilliant.

[GiantRat]

I'd believe they were just really tired from all the extra work. Driving tired is driving impaired, and it can easily have the same end result as driving drunk or stoned.

I agree in general. However, in this particular area family members of mine in law enforcement knew a bit about many of the drivers. Many had prior convictions (not like a NYC, where you just have to prove having a name that is unpronouncable to get licensed :rolleyes: ). IOW, most of them were basically gypsy cabs, but working under the auspices of a legitmate taxi service.

[kenobi 65]

Jon Hilkevich's column in today's Chicago Tribune (http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/automotive/traffic/ct-met-getting-around-1206-20101205,0,5096516.column) discusses several similar services in the Chicago area. One distinction between these and the "daiko taxis" the OP describes is that at least some of these services seem to be more about doing pre-arranged driving for you, both to and from the bar (i.e., you need to know ahead of time that you plan on using them).

[BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed]

How much does a daiko taxi ride cost compared with a regular taxi ride between the same end points? The competing model would be a regular taxi ride home and another regular taxi ride in the morning to pick up your car.

Daiko's cheaper, possibly because it's subsidized by the government. I also believe it's relatively recent. A 10 minute cab ride back from the bar in my area will run $25, whereas daiko is about $17.

Plus there are a lot of legal liability issues.

Suppose the drunk doesn't have valid insurance on his car? (About 25% of drivers don't, and those who drink to drunkeness are more likely to be in that group.) If the car is stopped by police while you are driving it, you are guilty of driving an uninsured vehicle, and can have your license suspended (and telling the judge "but this drunk guy said he had insurance" won't help).

If you get in any kind of an accident, the drunk guy can sue you for damages to his car (or even just the deductible).

Daiko companies all have insurance. If a daiko guy crashes your car here, surely you don't think that your insurance company has to pay for it.

[t-bonham@scc.net]

Daiko companies all have insurance. If a daiko guy crashes your car here, surely you don't think that your insurance company has to pay for it.Yes, I do. My insurance covers my car, no matter who I let drive it. (Assuming they are a licensed, legal driver.) Heck, if my car is stolen and the thief crashes it, I believe my insurance company pays for that.

Of course, if these Daiko companies carry insurance, I'm sure my insurance company will try to get them to pay. Just like they will try to get a car thief to pay for damages. (Insurance companies will always try to get someone else to pay!) But in the end, my insurance pays for my car.

[Rachellelogram]

I'm sure my insurance company will try to get them to pay. Just like they will try to get a car thief to pay for damages. (Insurance companies will always try to get someone else to pay!) But in the end, my insurance pays for my car.

Call your insurance company to be sure. And read your policy language. People always assume this but it's not always the case. You need comprehensive coverage to cover theft, generally. Plain 3rd party liability will not cover your losses in the case of theft (obviously). Though I'm not sure whether just liability will cover damage caused by your vehicle if it's been stolen. That may vary depending on your insurance carrier and policy type.

Call to make sure. Assumptions are dangerous when it comes to insurance. There's a difference between permissive use of your vehicle by a non-excluded third party and non-permissive use of your vehicle by a stranger.

[Meeko]

On rare occasions, I've seen the logo for this group in Atlanta.

http://saferideamerica.org/

[SavageBob]

Just a quick followup: I asked this on Facebook as well, and I learned that Los Angeles and Dallas apparently have the scooter-in-the-trunk service as well. Seems the idea is spreading, at least to major cities in the U.S.