The Straight Dope on HDMI

[fusoya]

After a disastrous visit to Best Buy tonight to pick up some accessories for my new media center, I've had enough with this mis-information being passed around, mostly by sales reps. Rather than BBQ Best Buy (although they deserve it), I am going to set the record straight:

First of all, if you are paying more than $20 for an HDMI cable, you are BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS by whoever is selling it to you. Newegg has 6 foot HDMI cables for $4. Amazon has 9 ft cables for $8. Even Radio Shack has them starting around $19, which is fine for brick&mortar. Best Buy's START at $49 for a 4 ft cable.

This $49 cable will perform EXACTLY the same as that $4 cable. If the sales rep is telling you that the gold plating or thicker cable will provide higher quality video and sound, he is LYING TO YOUR FACE. Digital cables, which include HDMI, DVI, optical TOSlink, SATA and audio coax transmit a stream of 1's and 0's. A gold plated 1 is the same thing to the receiver as an aluminum 1. This is the same reason why HD antennas will either give a clear picture, or no picture, with none of that static medium that the analog antennas had.

HDMI = DVI for video quality. HDMI is NOT a better picture than DVI. The only differences between DVI and HDMI are that HDMI also carry audio, and can give/receive instructions from other devices. A common misconception is that HDMI is a step up in video quality from DVI, which is 1000 times false. If your TV has 3 HDMI's and one DVI input, go ahead and use the DVI input for your 4th device. The only drawback will be that you'll have to use a separate audio cable if your device doesn't have built in speakers.

HDMI & DVI is the ONLY way to carry 1080p video. Component cables (the red, blue and green) can carry up to 1080i. This isn't because of cable limitations, but because of encryption. HDMI/DVI also carry a security protocol called HDCP, which makes a handshake between the two devices, to make sure that nothing in the middle is "pirating" the signal. This is only done with 1080p, for some reason.....this is also why if you have a non-HDCP compatible TV/monitor (yes, my Dell 2405 monitor will reject my Bluray player because of this), you are out of luck.....

When you hear terms like "high speed cable" and "category 1 and 2", this has nothing to do with the core quality of the cable. It has to due with the ability to transmit over further distances. The only reason you need to buy a category 2 cable is if you need a cable longer than 10 feet. Again, if the sales rep is trying to get you to spend $90 on a 5 foot cat2 cable so that your picture will look better, he is RIPPING YOUR OFF AND LYING TO YOUR FACE.


So yes, use HDMI if possible. But don't get ripped off upgrading.

[twickster]

Moved Cafe Society --> the Pit.

[Vinyl Turnip]

I hear you. Still, you did go to Best Buy. Nobody should do that, ever.

[Squink]

-->That cable is TOO THIN, and Not Gold-Iridium plasteed.
Signal degrasdateen has., alreedy OxCurrR<at<ed!!.)&..

[The Tao's Revenge]

HDMI & DVI is the ONLY way to carry 1080p video. Component cables (the red, blue and green) can carry up to 1080i. This isn't because of cable limitations, but because of encryption. HDMI/DVI also carry a security protocol called HDCP, which makes a handshake between the two devices, to make sure that nothing in the middle is "pirating" the signal. This is only done with 1080p, for some reason.....this is also why if you have a non-HDCP compatible TV/monitor (yes, my Dell 2405 monitor will reject my Bluray player because of this), you are out of luck.....


http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/16/confirmed-intel-says-hdcp-master-key-crack-is-rear


Confirmed: Intel says HDCP 'master key' crack is real
By Joshua Topolsky posted Sep 16th 2010 10:05PM


It's been just a few days since we broke news of the HDCP master key crack -- a rogue unlocking of the code that keeps HD content under strict control. Now Intel has independently confirmed to both Fox News and CNET that the code is indeed the genuine article. According to company spokesman Tom Waldrop, "It does appear to be a master key," adding that "What we have confirmed through testing is that you can derive keys for devices from this published material that do work with the keys produced by our security technology... this circumvention does appear to work." Coming from the company that developed and propagated the protocol, that's about as clear as you can get.


OP is blocked from watching movies OP paid for on his/her monitor, meanwhile anyone with ill-intent can freely break the encryption.

Why is the OP's device blocked again? Seems to only stop honest people doing honest things with media they've paid for.

[Munch]

Good rant, but some misinformation.
This is the same reason why HD antennas will either give a clear picture, or no picture, with none of that static medium that the analog antennas had.
"HD antenna" is almost as bad as "$50 HDMI cable". I have rabbit ears from 1973 that work just fine connected to my HD set-top box that receives HD OTA broadcasts. I also made an antenna from wire hangers that works just as well on both NTSC and ATSC signals.

HDMI & DVI is the ONLY way to carry 1080p video. Component cables (the red, blue and green) can carry up to 1080i.
False. Component cable can carry 1080p just fine for non-encrypted data. The Xbox 360 is a perfect example.

[fusoya]

The XBOX 360 doesn't encrypt its data? Wow....well I guess it can't play Bluray discs anyway....

Again, that limitation is due to HDCP, not due to any limitation from the cables itself (although component is still analog, so you better go buy a set of $100 gold plated Monster cables if you want the best video quality! And a set of $900 Blows speakers for the best audio!)

Sorry, I meant analog antenna SIGNAL. You know, what everybody used before a couple years ago, which usually resulted in a snowy picture.

[Palooka]

The 360 doesn't encrypt gameplay, 'cause there is no reason to. It does encrypt videos though, such as the Netflicks stuff. Dunno why Munch called you out on that, since you were clear about it (and right).

[Munch]

The 360 doesn't encrypt gameplay, 'cause there is no reason to. It does encrypt videos though, such as the Netflicks stuff. Dunno why Munch called you out on that, since you were clear about it (and right).

It wasn't a call out, just a correction. And I clearly said it was only for non-encrypted video.

Sorry, I meant analog antenna SIGNAL. You know, what everybody used before a couple years ago, which usually resulted in a snowy picture. I knew what you meant. But in a (very useful) thread about specific information, isn't it good to have correct specific information?

[furryman]

I read once that you can't really appreciate 1080 dpi HD on a screen smaller than 32 inches. Does anybody know if this is true?

[Lynn Bodoni]

I hear you. Still, you did go to Best Buy. Nobody should do that, ever. My baby brother (and he'll always be the baby of the family, you know) used to go to Best Buy just to correct the sales people. He never bought anything there, he just went in and assisted customers in finding what they actually needed...which was usually for sale cheaper, somewhere else.

I'm sure the BB sales people just LOVED him to pieces.

[Palooka]

I read once that you can't really appreciate 1080 dpi HD on a screen smaller than 32 inches. Does anybody know if this is true?Depends on your distance from the screen. For example, 1920 x 1080 looks far better on a 22" monitor than 1280 x 720 on a 22" monitor. That's 'cause you're two feet away from it. If you're ten feet away, everything is probably going to blur together enough that it won't matter.

[Duke]

First of all, if you are paying more than $20 for an HDMI cable, you are BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS by whoever is selling it to you. Newegg has 6 foot HDMI cables for $4. Amazon has 9 ft cables for $8. Even Radio Shack has them starting around $19, which is fine for brick&mortar.

Hell, I found 6-foot HDMI cables at Five Below for $5! Even The Shack is a rip off...

[DarrenS]

Next you'll be telling us that these speaker cables (http://gizmodo.com/302478/7250-speaker-cables-turn-you-into-a-dancin-fool) aren't really "danceable" at all. (Note the price)

[Frank]

"HD antenna" is almost as bad as "$50 HDMI cable". I have rabbit ears from 1973 that work just fine connected to my HD set-top box that receives HD OTA broadcasts. I also made an antenna from wire hangers that works just as well on both NTSC and ATSC signals.
Well, this is where I've been confused. I've been debating blowing away my cable subscription, but haven't been able to figure out what I'll need for an antenna. Any old-fashioned TV antenna will work for HD?

I'll feel a lot more comfortable getting one to test reception in my apartment if I don't have to shell out a metric shitload of money on it.

[fusoya]

I read once that you can't really appreciate 1080 dpi HD on a screen smaller than 32 inches. Does anybody know if this is true?

False, I have a 1080p 24" screen, and I can DEFINITELY tell the difference between 720 and 1080. Then again, I'm usually sitting about 3 feet away from it.

[Munch]

Well, this is where I've been confused. I've been debating blowing away my cable subscription, but haven't been able to figure out what I'll need for an antenna. Any old-fashioned TV antenna will work for HD?

I'll feel a lot more comfortable getting one to test reception in my apartment if I don't have to shell out a metric shitload of money on it.

Here's the thing - you are going to get what you pay for with an antenna, especially if you live in a tough reception area. HD broadcasts don't fluxuate very much, but there's a pretty strong drop off, so there's some room to improve. There's also concern over "ghosting", which happens when the signal bounces off something nearby (trees, a hill, a big building, etc.). A well-made antenna will be able to boost the signal, and will have been made to maximize reception. I'm able to get a picture with a cheap antenna because I get a good signal. There's a broadcasting tower that's a mile further from the main cluster that I can't get for shit.

If your TV has a tuner in it, just plug any old antenna into the coax input and see what you get. Work your way up from there.

[mookieblaylock]

Ain't this the truth.

$49 for an HDMI cable is absolute robbery.

[Boyo Jim]

But... but.... for MY programs, I need golden contacts! How else am I gonna attract the women?

I'm in the market for diamond cables too.

[Cheesesteak]

The brick and mortar stores are all participating in this scam. Even WalMart, where I figured you could go to get a generic cable cheap... nope, they start at $25. What I just found out now is that you can go their website, find a cable for $5 and have it shipped to your local store for free. If you're not online, you get soaked.

I wish some "local news" anti scam guys take a look at this and get the word out that you don't have to pay $50 for a $5 cable. That would be a nice one to run during the holidays, so folks who get a great deal on a $100 Blu Ray player don't blow all those savings on a way to connect it to their TV.

[Alessan]

I paid around $28 for an HDMI cable a few months ago. Of course, this was a 10-meter cable, and the next lowest price was over twice as high.

[Scuba_Ben]

AIUI, the protocols DVI and HDMI were developed by computer people for computer use. They were never designed with home theater AV in mind. That's why a consumer-grade HDMI cable is no longer than 10 feet or so. And why gold-plated connectors are needless overkill.

I am curious about Alessan's 10m cable, and how signal degradation was over that cable run.

I would love to see a unified digital AV protocol with the following high level requirements:
* Cables and signal degradation support home theater applications (long cable runs).
* Single connector carries audio, video, and secondary connections (such as USB).
* Physical connector is one-way, such as a VGA connector and not like the facing-upstream USB connector.
* Non-proprietary.

Until then, fuck all sales people, marketing brochures, and engineering boards that push HDMI as the gold-plated gold standard of digital AV protocols.

[Vinyl Turnip]

Hell, I found 6-foot HDMI cables at Five Below for $5! Even The Shack is a rip off...

$3.04 at monoprice.com, in an assortment of colors! Or if you're feeling tycoonish and spendy, you can splurge on the 10-foot cable for $4.23...

In Turnipland, anyone who's ever paid more than $20 for an HDMI cable would get one free shot at the seller's nutsack* with a morning star.


* Or twat. But come on, it's mostly guys perpetrating that shit.

[Max Torque]

Well, this is where I've been confused. I've been debating blowing away my cable subscription, but haven't been able to figure out what I'll need for an antenna. Any old-fashioned TV antenna will work for HD?

I'll feel a lot more comfortable getting one to test reception in my apartment if I don't have to shell out a metric shitload of money on it.

Yup yup. I get my over-the-air HDTV with one of these (http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=CM-3016&d=Channel-Master-CM3016-Suburban-Advantage-TV-Antenna-%28CM3016%29&c=TV%20Antennas&sku=), installed on a mast hanging down from the rafters in my attic. Works like a charm, and the antenna was only about $30.

Fact is, you'll never get as good a reception with an artfully sculpted hunk of plastic indoors as you will with a big vane-y hunk of aluminum mounted up high and outdoors. HDTV signals are digital, but they're broadcast on the same UHF (and a few still on VHF) frequencies we've been using for years.

Check a site like antennaweb (http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx) for the signals put out in your area; you may only need a UHF antenna. Then, put one up and enjoy! I realize your options are limited in an apartment, but if you can find a way, outdoors and high is the way to go.

[Lare]

Yup yup. I get my over-the-air HDTV with one of these (http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=CM-3016&d=Channel-Master-CM3016-Suburban-Advantage-TV-Antenna-%28CM3016%29&c=TV%20Antennas&sku=), installed on a mast hanging down from the rafters in my attic. Works like a charm, and the antenna was only about $30.

Me too. And I saved some more money by using a piece of PVC pipe instead of a true antenna mast.

[Mines Mystique]

HDMI = DVI for video quality. HDMI is NOT a better picture than DVI. The only differences between DVI and HDMI are that HDMI also carry audio, and can give/receive instructions from other devices. A common misconception is that HDMI is a step up in video quality from DVI, which is 1000 times false. If your TV has 3 HDMI's and one DVI input, go ahead and use the DVI input for your 4th device. The only drawback will be that you'll have to use a separate audio cable if your device doesn't have built in speakers.
.

I would like to point out that DVI CAN carry audio signals and HDCP as well, but doesn't have to according to the DVI standard. It all depends on the device that is outputting the signal. In the case of DVI, this was usually a computer going to a monitor that didn't have speakers, thus the lack of audio in the standard. Also, HDMI does not always carry audio either, especially when using it with a computer. For example, my laptop does not output audio over the HDMI out that is on it, but it will output HD digital video.

[Revtim]

$3.04 at monoprice.com, in an assortment of colors! Or if you're feeling tycoonish and spendy, you can splurge on the 10-foot cable for $4.23...Goddamn I LOVE monoprice. I got a new phone and needed micro USB cables (I had mini on previous phone). Of course they had the best prices, and then I noticed they had a car cigarette lighter connector with a USB port for a buck. That plus an additional cable got my a new car charger for 2 bucks.

[Alessan]

I am curious about Alessan's 10m cable, and how signal degradation was over that cable run.


I'm watching TV over it right now, and it seems fine. I mean, I'm not much of an AV geek, so I can't really expound on the subtleties of my sound and video quality, but all in all, It's just like having a really big computer screen.

[Palooka]

Monoprice was cool until they let my credit card number get stolen.

[buttonjockey308]

If I could sell a $4.00 cable for $50.00 I would, and so would most people. In fact, that is an exact model of the stack of bullshit upon which our economy currently teeters. If people told the truth about what they were selling, no one would buy. This is true for everything from hard drives to hamburgers. As consumers we live to be lied to, but then for some reason we're outraged when it's discovered. You know the truth, buy smart and tell your friends.

[Raygun99]

Goddamn I LOVE monoprice. I got a new phone and needed micro USB cables (I had mini on previous phone). Of course they had the best prices, and then I noticed they had a car cigarette lighter connector with a USB port for a buck. That plus an additional cable got my a new car charger for 2 bucks.

I would marry them for their cables. Their electronics are a different story. I've bought several different card readers from them which were all varying degrees of shit.

[Rumor_Watkins]

I vote to let the dumbs get fleeced when buying cables so the stores keep their TVs priced at razor-thin margins, thank you very much.

[Stranger On A Train]

I hear you. Still, you did go to Best Buy. Nobody should do that, ever.Best Buy is about as accurate a label as "Fair and Balanced".

My baby brother (and he'll always be the baby of the family, you know) used to go to Best Buy just to correct the sales people. He never bought anything there, he just went in and assisted customers in finding what they actually needed...which was usually for sale cheaper, somewhere else.Your brother is my new personal hero.

Stranger

[Lare]

I think Lynn's baby brother may be Sheldon from Big Bang Theory.

[Martini Enfield]

What's interesting is that we have cheap HDMI cables at work and there are still who customers don't believe me when I tell them they're exactly the same as the expensive ones. There's a lot of people out there who figure that if it's expensive, it must be good, it seems.

[Machine Elf]

If I could sell a $4.00 cable for $50.00 I would, and so would most people.

They're not even $4. I just bought one from Amazon for a grand total of $3.03, including postage. The stamp on the padded mailer was $1.56, which means he collected a whopping $1.47 for the cable.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Monster cables and Girls Gone Wild are the two greatest scams business models of our time.

[Rumor_Watkins]

Monster cables and Girls Gone Wild are the two greatest scams business models of our time.

What about GGW is a "scam"?

I've never seen these videos, but I imagine they're exactly as advertised: just a bunch of drunk hos showing their titties.

[kushiel]

I tell my family that if they go out and buy a cable for anything without consulting me first there will be hell to pay.

There's a perfectly wonderful independent computer shop a few blocks away from work where I picked up my HDMI cable for $5.

[Really Not All That Bright]

I've never seen these videos, but I imagine they're exactly as advertised: just a bunch of drunk hos showing their titties.
Well, yes, but most of the drunk hos aren't nearly as hot as the ones in the commercials. Plus, the first one costs $9.99, but they send you another one every month and charge you $39 and it's fucking impossible to cancel.

[Rumor_Watkins]

Well, yes, but most of the drunk hos aren't nearly as hot as the ones in the commercials. Plus, the first one costs $9.99, but they send you another one every month and charge you $39 and it's fucking impossible to cancel.


are you speaking from experience, here? :D

[Vinyl Turnip]

Yeah! And plus they're not even girls, they're like, young women! Am I right, guys? Come on, who's with me? Don't leave me hanging...

[Really Not All That Bright]

are you speaking from experience, here? :D
...or so I hear.