I Pit people who use the word "retarded"

[etv78]

I posted a thread about my sadness at seeing Dick Clark's failing health. After we got back on track after being derailed by a discussion disabled people's right to be in public, someone said Dick looked "retarded", causing another diversion of the thread. I'm being painted as hypersensitive for being offended by the word's use. IMO, the word is no different than "cripple", "faggot", or "nigger".

[Lobohan]

I posted a thread about my sadness at seeing Dick Clark's failing health. After we got back on track after being derailed by a discussion disabled people's right to be in public, someone said Dick looked "retarded", causing another diversion of the thread. I'm being painted as hypersensitive for being offended by the word's use. IMO, the word is no different than "cripple", "faggot", or "nigger".Dude, you're going totally mental, calm down.

[Snarky_Kong]

What's wrong with cripple?

[Alice The Goon]

What's wrong with cripple?


It's lame. Ha!

OP, you are a fucking moron, and you seriously need to get a life.

[rolandgunslinger]

This pitting is retarded..

[Martin Hyde]

According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition (DSM-IV), Mental retardation (MR) is characterized “by significantly subaverage intellectual functioning (an IQ of approximately 70 or below) with onset before age 18 years and concurrent deficits or impairments in adaptive functioning” (American Psychiatric Association, 1994, p. 37). Subcategories differentiated by IQ scores include (DSM-IV, p. 40)

[Biggirl]

The poster didn't call Dick Clark retarded. He said he sounded retarded. Which he does, bless him. Should the poster have said Dick Clark sounds Palin-American?

Seriously, what word was he supposed to use?

[rolandgunslinger]

What's wrong with cripple?

"Holy crip you're a crapple!"

[Harmonious Discord]

You are being super sensitive, because mental retardation is an actual condition.

[Lobohan]

The poster didn't call Dick Clark retarded. He said he sounded retarded. Which he does, bless him. Should the poster have said Dick Clark sounds Palin-American?

Seriously, what word was he supposed to use?Speaking of Palin, is it acceptable to call her vagina a tard-cannon?

I'm thinking no, but I'd like the OP's assessment.

[BigT]

I have no problem not using the term for actual people with mental disabilities, but I do think it's silly not to be able to use it at all.

Then again, I don't really have a problem with "gay" either. I only don't use it because I was never with the crowd that did. I was with the crowd that used retarded and lame.

And I'd say that retarded is different, since it's being used to mean what it actually means (i.e. stupid). Both lame and gay have their meanings modified to be disparaging.

That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with etv78 saying he doesn't like the word. But pitting people over it is a bit silly.

[iamnotbatman]

Retarded is just a fucking descriptive word. It doesn't carry with it any implied hate of those who are mentally handicapped. The OP, for example, might happen to be 'tarded. If so, I have nothing but compassion for him.

[Nightfall1]

I'm 57 years old. In my teens and twenties it was perfectly ok to say someone was mentally retarded. My neighbor had a retarded child. A friend of mine asked what school the child went to. I told him their daughter was mentally retarded and went to THE SCHOOL OF HOPE which was a school for retarded children. He wasn't shocked by what I said, the parents weren't shocked. That was the proper term to use.
I think the term went out of use because of people using the word retard as a cut down to people they didn't like. As in "You're SUCH a retard" "YOU retard".
I'm sure the term mentally challenged will go out of use in a decade or so and be replaced by something else.

[Squink]

AFAIK, faggot and nigger were never technical terms.

See, for example:

http://www.google.com/search?q=retarded+the+spark&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

for retarded usage.

[WhyNot]

Not using the word won't make the medical condition go away. If it would, I'd be right there with ya.

Frankly, sometimes people are retarded. And sometimes people who aren't retarded look/speak/act as if they are.

Yes, I think you're hypersensitive.

[silenus]

The OP is moronic.

[WhyNot]

The OP is moronic.

*snicker* Well done, sir.

[lorene]

I'm 57 years old. In my teens and twenties it was perfectly ok to say someone was mentally retarded. My neighbor had a retarded child. A friend of mine asked what school the child went to. I told him their daughter was mentally retarded and went to THE SCHOOL OF HOPE which was a school for retarded children. He wasn't shocked by what I said, the parents weren't shocked. That was the proper term to use.
I think the term went out of use because of people using the word retard as a cut down to people they didn't like. As in "You're SUCH a retard" "YOU retard".
I'm sure the term mentally challenged will go out of use in a decade or so and be replaced by something else.

Is mentally challenged what people are calling it these days? That's a horrible phrase.

I used to work with the MR population, although we were supposed to call it "developmentally delayed". Which, OK, I get that 'retarded' became a pejorative term and let's get away from that and all...but delayed makes it sound as though these folks will eventually catch up, and in strict IQ terms, no, they will not.

[Sage Rat]

The OP is moronic.

Also idiotic, cretinous, and imbecilic. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_retardation#History_of_the_terminology)

[monstro]

I try not to use "retarded" because I know it makes a lot of people tense up. And as someone who was teased with "retard" growing up, it sometimes makes me tense up.

But sometimes it's just something to say. Like, sometimes I'll talk about myself doing something crazy, and instead of saying "crazy", I'll say "like some kind of retarded." It just funnier that way.

Also, it's been a long time since I've heard slow people being referred to as "retarded." Mentally-challenged and developmentally-delayed, yes. Sometimes I've even heard "learning-disabled", which I always thought referred to people with dyslexia but were otherwise "normal". So "retard" is quickly going the same way as "moron", "imbecile", and "cretin" did, and being replaced with longer, more politically correct words.

The word "special" is also used insultingly. When I worked at Six Flags, my nickname was "the Specialist" (I found it funny back then and still laugh at it). As long as you don't do it in the company of someone who is "special", I don't really see the harm. The same with "retarded."

And no, "retard" is not the same thing as "faggot" or "nigger." Just like "cunt" is worse than "bitch" and "motherfucker" is worse than "poopyhead."

[Rumor_Watkins]

your hypersensitivity is retarded. words by themselves have no meaning - context is king.

[Ludovic]

I hate people who only use politically correct speech. I think they talk like a fag, and their shit's all retarded.

[Rumor_Watkins]

I hate people who only use politically correct speech. I think they talk like a fag, and their shit's all retarded.

hate is such a strong word. you offend me, sir.

[Fish Nya]

Wow, it's great that so many people stick up for the use of the word "retarded." I mean, it's not like a lot of medical fields are actually rejecting the term "retarded" as a condition anymore, or as if advocacy groups are also talking about getting beyond the word.

Oh, (http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevisions/Pages/proposedrevision.aspx?rid=384#) wait. (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_disability-related_terms_with_negative_connotations#R)

When you use a word that is considered to be part of a person's identity as an insult, you are insulting that identity. When you say something bad is "gay" you are saying being gay is bad. You might not mean it but you are. When you call an asshole or someone who is ignorant or stupid "retarded" you are saying people with disabilities are those things.

You can't say you are using it the medical way because you are not a doctor. Or, if you are, you can not make a diagnostic because they are not your patient. And either way, "mental retardation" as that diagnosis is fading.

And the whole "idiot used to mean this" and "moron" and all that stuff- no. The average person don't know the root of those words. If you ask someone what does moron mean they will say "a stupid person" or something. If you ask what retard or retarded means, most people will think of a person who is mentally disabled.

I use "retard" and "gay" and "lame" for negative things. Only, I'm trying to stop. And it is hard- these are word that I never really thought about for most of my life. And I hate that people told me that it was ableist or homophobic of me to use them- I'm not those things. But my use of the words was. Me using them after people have told me it offends them is saying that me using an offensive word was more important than the feelings of those it offends innocently.

I used to think that political correctness was stupid. That people only did it to gain points for being more moral than everyone else. Except it's not about morality or politics. It's about being a decent person. If your sister/brother/mother/father/best friend said "you know, it hurts me when you do/say [this]." most people would try to stop. Because they value that person's feelings.

We don't do this over the internet because we are pretty anonymous. I don't know the person who said that they didn't like me saying "retard" so fuck them. They are just over-sensitive!

And yes, this response is kinda all over the place. I rewrote and deleted several part while writing it. And it is a bit long. This is because one of my resolutions was to remove these slurs from my vocabulary. I have friends who have had these words used to demean and degrade them. I don't want to have them be reminded of all the jackasses in the world just so I can say "that movie was retarded." I would rather be PC to not hurt people on accident than an ass.

[iamnotbatman]

And no, "retard" is not the same thing as "faggot" or "nigger." Just like "cunt" is worse than "bitch" and "motherfucker" is worse than "poopyhead."

What's the deal with "cunt"? I know it is typically used with somewhat stronger intentions of offense, but other than that, why is it intrinsically so much worse than "bitch"? Am I missing something about its origin?

[Rumor_Watkins]

Wow, it's great that so many people stick up for the use of the word "retarded." I mean, it's not like a lot of medical fields are actually rejecting the term "retarded" as a condition anymore, or as if advocacy groups are also talking about getting beyond the word.

Oh, (http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevisions/Pages/proposedrevision.aspx?rid=384#) wait. (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_disability-related_terms_with_negative_connotations#R)

When you use a word that is considered to be part of a person's identity as an insult, you are insulting that identity. When you say something bad is "gay" you are saying being gay is bad. You might not mean it but you are. When you call an asshole or someone who is ignorant or stupid "retarded" you are saying people with disabilities are those things.


well if it's being rejected by the community as an identity, then you can't very well insult that identity by using the rejected identifying word, now can you?

retard.

[iamnotbatman]

Except it's not about morality or politics. It's about being a decent person. If your sister/brother/mother/father/best friend said "you know, it hurts me when you do/say [this]." most people would try to stop. Because they value that person's feelings.

Being a decent person who values others feelings is not in contradiction with the observation that some people are overly sensitive, take themselves too seriously, and have no sense of humor.

[Miller]

Wow, it's great that so many people stick up for the use of the word "retarded." I mean, it's not like a lot of medical fields are actually rejecting the term "retarded" as a condition anymore, or as if advocacy groups are also talking about getting beyond the word.

Oh, (http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevisions/Pages/proposedrevision.aspx?rid=384#) wait. (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_disability-related_terms_with_negative_connotations#R)

When you use a word that is considered to be part of a person's identity as an insult, you are insulting that identity. When you say something bad is "gay" you are saying being gay is bad. You might not mean it but you are. When you call an asshole or someone who is ignorant or stupid "retarded" you are saying people with disabilities are those things.

This is a good example of why context is so important. Because, while everything you say here is true, it's also entirely irrelevant: in the thread that has the OP so riled up, the word was not being used in an insulting manner.

[etv78]

Wow, it's great that so many people stick up for the use of the word "retarded." I mean, it's not like a lot of medical fields are actually rejecting the term "retarded" as a condition anymore, or as if advocacy groups are also talking about getting beyond the word.

Oh, (http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevisions/Pages/proposedrevision.aspx?rid=384#) wait. (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_disability-related_terms_with_negative_connotations#R)

When you use a word that is considered to be part of a person's identity as an insult, you are insulting that identity. When you say something bad is "gay" you are saying being gay is bad. You might not mean it but you are. When you call an asshole or someone who is ignorant or stupid "retarded" you are saying people with disabilities are those things.

You can't say you are using it the medical way because you are not a doctor. Or, if you are, you can not make a diagnostic because they are not your patient. And either way, "mental retardation" as that diagnosis is fading.

And the whole "idiot used to mean this" and "moron" and all that stuff- no. The average person don't know the root of those words. If you ask someone what does moron mean they will say "a stupid person" or something. If you ask what retard or retarded means, most people will think of a person who is mentally disabled.

I use "retard" and "gay" and "lame" for negative things. Only, I'm trying to stop. And it is hard- these are word that I never really thought about for most of my life. And I hate that people told me that it was ableist or homophobic of me to use them- I'm not those things. But my use of the words was. Me using them after people have told me it offends them is saying that me using an offensive word was more important than the feelings of those it offends innocently.

I used to think that political correctness was stupid. That people only did it to gain points for being more moral than everyone else. Except it's not about morality or politics. It's about being a decent person. If your sister/brother/mother/father/best friend said "you know, it hurts me when you do/say [this]." most people would try to stop. Because they value that person's feelings.

We don't do this over the internet because we are pretty anonymous. I don't know the person who said that they didn't like me saying "retard" so fuck them. They are just over-sensitive!

And yes, this response is kinda all over the place. I rewrote and deleted several part while writing it. And it is a bit long. This is because one of my resolutions was to remove these slurs from my vocabulary. I have friends who have had these words used to demean and degrade them. I don't want to have them be reminded of all the jackasses in the world just so I can say "that movie was retarded." I would rather be PC to not hurt people on accident than an ass.

Fish Nye- You put my feelings better than I could have! You explained EXACTLY why I find the word objectionable, thank you!

[Snarky_Kong]

When you use a word that is considered to be part of a person's identity as an insult, you are insulting that identity. When you say something bad is "gay" you are saying being gay is bad. You might not mean it but you are. When you call an asshole or someone who is ignorant or stupid "retarded" you are saying people with disabilities are those things.

Being retarded is bad.

Nobody calls an asshole a retard. Unless they're also acting retarded.

Quit being so special needs.

[Idle Thoughts]

Hey guys! Here's a link (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=591264) to the original topic, by the way!

Next time don't be so retarded and include it in your OP.

[Fish Nya]

This is a good example of why context is so important. Because, while everything you say here is true, it's also entirely irrelevant: the usage of the word that got the OP so riled up was not using it in an insulting manner.

I can't speak for the OP but it doesn't matter if the comment that made them post this was "in an insulting manner" or not. From what I understood that was just the final straw.

Several people in this thread have stated that "retard" is just another word, just a description. Except how it's not.



Being a decent person who values others feelings is not in contradiction with the observation that some people are overly sensitive, take themselves too seriously, and have no sense of humor.

The whole "can't you take a joke" thing has been used by so many people over the years as a way of erasing other people it's not even funny. And the idea that someone is over sensitive is insulting, too. Sure, some people might be. Or they might just face something over and over again that it acts like a trigger. It might be just a joke or something funny to you, but to the other person it might just be the Nth time they've heard that joke or insult in a day. You are saying that they have no right to find something offensive, that it is wrong for them to do so. People deal with issues others use as joke in their real life.

I am not offended myself the use of retard as an insult. But I know that it is offensive. The person who is offended is not over-sensitive. I'm just not as sensitive as them.

[BrainGlutton]

The poster didn't call Dick Clark retarded. He said he sounded retarded. Which he does, bless him. Should the poster have said Dick Clark sounds Palin-American?

Seriously, what word was he supposed to use?

Senile? (I think Satan finally repossessed the portrait that was doing Clark's aging for him.)

[Chefguy]

My niece is retarded. Her parents refer to her as 'retarded' and have since she was first diagnosed as a very young child. She's not 'slow', nor 'challenged', nor 'delayed' for fuck's sake. She lives life as an independent-living, job-holding, car-driving not-too-bright 15-year old, whose chronological age is 49.

"Retarded" is only offensive if used in an offensive manner, unlike nigger or faggot, which are nearly always hurled as insults. The OP is way off base with that comparison. That said, in my opinion, the word "retarded" is used entirely too frequently by younger people as a descriptive for people who are behaving in manners that are not at all representative of the mentally retarded.

[monstro]

I don't know why "cunt" is worse than "bitch". Just like I don't know why "dick" is worse than "jerk". I just know they are.

[Fish Nya]

Being retarded is bad.

Nobody calls an asshole a retard. Unless they're also acting retarded.

Quit being so special needs.

No. Being a person with mental disabilities is not good or bad, it's just a thing you can be. A person can face problems because of that, but what they are is not anything. Being blind is not bad. Being deaf is not bad. Being disabled in anyway is not bad. The effects of something being bad is different than the thing itself being bad.

Having disabilities is not bad. Being unable to do something you want, facing discrimination your whole life, and being constantly made fun of= bad.

If I suddenly became blind of deaf or lost any other capability that I currently have, that would suck. I like seeing and hearing. But I'm not "good" because I can.I am better at seeing and hear, yes, but I'm not a better person.

Identities are not bad. Being something is not bad (unless it is only something you are after doing something wrong, like murderer or rapist or something). Ranking things as bad, good, better, and worse are what leads to people being devalued as human beings.

[iamnotbatman]

The whole "can't you take a joke" thing has been used by so many people over the years as a way of erasing other people it's not even funny.

...So?

And the idea that someone is over sensitive is insulting, too.

Perhaps because it is true?

Sure, some people might be. Or they might just face something over and over again that it acts like a trigger. It might be just a joke or something funny to you, but to the other person it might just be the Nth time they've heard that joke or insult in a day.

You seem to be describing some sort of psychosis. The same is true of some war veterans with PTSD. Should we never use the term "shell" or "duck" in everyday conversation? Where do you draw the line?

You are saying that they have no right to find something offensive, that it is wrong for them to do so. People deal with issues others use as joke in their real life.

Actually, yes. They have no sense of fucking humor. No levity. Ever heard of gallows humor? I've been pretty sick before in my own life, and I have had family members who have been very sick, been seriously injured, and died. In all cases we all were able to make a good joke about it every once in a while. Hell, I've known gays who call each other fags. Even cancer can be funny if you have an enlightened, "tale told by an idiot" outlook on life. Grow up, grow a pair, and don't take yourself so goddam seriously you fucking retard pussy asshole.

I am not offended myself the use of retard as an insult. But I know that it is offensive. The person who is offended is not over-sensitive. I'm just not as sensitive as them.

Bullshit logic. How do you know they aren't over sensitive?

[Snarky_Kong]

If I suddenly became blind of deaf or lost any other capability that I currently have, that would suck.

So, it would be a bad thing to happen to you?


I like seeing and hearing. But I'm not "good" because I can.I am better at seeing and hear, yes, but I'm not a better person.


Yeah, I never said it made a person bad. Nice straw man. Being disabled in anyway is clearly bad though. Same thing with being ugly or unathletic or whatever.

[Eyebrows 0f Doom]

No one in this thread has said that disabled people are bad people. But their disability is a bad thing. That's the definition of a disability.

[Chimera]

Words are only words. They cannot hurt you unless you decide to be injured.

Being angry about other peoples use of a word and attacking them for it is an attempt to CONTROL what other people do and say rather than dealing with your own feelings about it. Now *that* is retarded.

[Cat Whisperer]

This pitting is retarded..When I saw the title of this thread, I challenged my husband as to how many responses it would be until someone called the OP retarded. He said first one, I said third - I was righter. :)

I hate people who only use politically correct speech. I think they talk like a fag, and their shit's all retarded.This made me snort out loud. :D

[iamnotbatman]

If you liked that, you'll love idiocracy :D

[Roland Orzabal]

The thing is, for there to be any justification for taking offense, you pretty much have to pick one of the following. Either A) "retarded" is an adjective describing persons afflicted with the disorder of mental retardation*, and its use as a general insult is offensive because it implies that retarded people are bad, or B) "retarded" has become first and foremost a general insult, and applying it to those afflicted with mental retardation is offensive because it's insulting to them in the same way it would be to anyone else.

If it's the former, then saying "Joe is in Special Needs classes because he's retarded" isn't offensive, because that's the definition of the word. If it's the latter, then something like "being a Cowboys fan is retarded" isn't offensive (well, except to Cowboys fans, but they don't count), because the word is a general insult and doesn't refer to a specific group of individuals. You can't go both ways, and there is no rational justification for taking offense at every single usage of the word.

*As for this:
You can't say you are using it the medical way because you are not a doctor.

......the fuck? Last I checked, there was no certification requirement for use of language. My cousin is anemic; can I say that in the medical sense, or do I have to use it only as a synonym for "unenergetic"?

[etv78]

The thing is, for there to be any justification for taking offense, you pretty much have to pick one of the following. Either A) "retarded" is an adjective describing persons afflicted with the disorder of mental retardation*, and its use as a general insult is offensive because it implies that retarded people are bad, or B) "retarded" has become first and foremost a general insult, and applying it to those afflicted with mental retardation is offensive because it's insulting to them in the same way it would be to anyone else.

If it's the former, then saying "Joe is in Special Needs classes because he's retarded" isn't offensive, because that's the definition of the word. If it's the latter, then something like "being a Cowboys fan is retarded" isn't offensive (well, except to Cowboys fans, but they don't count), because the word is a general insult and doesn't refer to a specific group of individuals. You can't go both ways, and there is no rational justification for taking offense at every single usage of the word.

*As for this:


......the fuck? Last I checked, there was no certification requirement for use of language. My cousin is anemic; can I say that in the medical sense, or do I have to use it only as a synonym for "unenergetic"?

Or option C) The use of the word "retarded" is offensive because a better, less derogatory term has come into use.

[iamnotbatman]

(*cough*) pussy (*cough*)

Apologies for the above remark if you are in fact an actual vagina.

ETA: or a kitty cat

ETA2: wait a second, do I need to apologize if you are a vagina or a kitty cat? I don't think so. I take back the apology.

[Giraffe]

The poster didn't call Dick Clark retarded. He said he sounded retarded. Which he does, bless him. Should the poster have said Dick Clark sounds Palin-American?

I absolutely hooted with laughter at this. Palin-American -- that's pure genius right there.

Well done.

[Enderw24]

(*cough*) pussy (*cough*)

Apologies for the above remark if you are in fact an actual vagina.

ETA: or a kitty cat

ETA2: wait a second, do I need to apologize if you are a vagina or a kitty cat? I don't think so. I take back the apology.

Jesus man, do you have sand in your retarded?

[iamnotbatman]

Jesus man, do you have sand in your retarded?

Actually, I am very sensitive about this whole issue. I own a retarded pussy with a crippled asshole, and it frequently gets sand up inside its asshole. I am very upset right now, and I hope that in the future you don't make hurtful comments like that.

[Larry Borgia]

This thread is totally developmentally delayed.

[AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet]

:D I think the term went out of use because of people using the word retard as a cut down to people they didn't like. As in "You're SUCH a retard" "YOU retard".
Dead on! There is a difference between the term retarded and the insult "retard"
Retarded just means SLOW. I'll usually say he/she is MR. Developmentally delayed seems to be too euphaninmisticky, and special needs is too general.
Some people are too hypersensative. The orgional post was to a comment where someone said that Dick Clark sounded retarded.

[Roland Orzabal]

Or option C) The use of the word "retarded" is offensive because a better, less derogatory term has come into use.So, it's offensive because there exists a term that is less offensive than it. I don't think I've ever seen single-sentence circular reasoning before. Nicely done.

[Miller]

I can't speak for the OP but it doesn't matter if the comment that made them post this was "in an insulting manner" or not. From what I understood that was just the final straw.

But it does matter. Context always matters. If someone had said, "The growth of my cancer was retarded by the chemotherapy," would the OP be justified in flipping out over it? Of course not, because in that context, "retarded" isn't an insult. Noting that Dick Clark's speech impediment makes him sound like he's mentally disabled is not an insult, it's an observation about the way his illness has effected his physical abilities. Getting upset over the use of the word in that context is, indeed, hypersensitive.

The whole "can't you take a joke" thing has been used by so many people over the years as a way of erasing other people it's not even funny. And the idea that someone is over sensitive is insulting, too. Sure, some people might be. Or they might just face something over and over again that it acts like a trigger. It might be just a joke or something funny to you, but to the other person it might just be the Nth time they've heard that joke or insult in a day. You are saying that they have no right to find something offensive, that it is wrong for them to do so. People deal with issues others use as joke in their real life.

Of course he has the "right" to find it offensive. He has the right to be offended by whatever the hell he wants to be offended by. This isn't a "rights" issue, and it's ridiculous to even bring the term into this discussion.

I am not offended myself the use of retard as an insult. But I know that it is offensive. The person who is offended is not over-sensitive. I'm just not as sensitive as them.

And again, that has nothing to do with this thread, because the usage of "retarded" that set off the OP was not an insult.

No. Being a person with mental disabilities is not good or bad, it's just a thing you can be. A person can face problems because of that, but what they are is not anything. Being blind is not bad. Being deaf is not bad. Being disabled in anyway is not bad. The effects of something being bad is different than the thing itself being bad.

And this is just fucking stupid. Yes, it is bad to be blind. It's bad to be deaf. It's bad to not be able to walk. And it's bad to be retarded. Being these things doesn't make you a bad person, obviously, but they are drawbacks. They are disabilities. They are qualities that, almost universally, are not wanted by the people who have them. That people who are blind, deaf, lame, or retarded shouldn't be discriminated against because of their disabilities, goes without saying. They shouldn't be excluded from society, or barred from doing things that they can do, just because there are other things they can't do. But trying to pretend that there's no qualitative difference between having arms, and not having arms, is asinine.

[Biggirl]

I absolutely hooted with laughter at this. Palin-American -- that's pure genius right there.

Well done.

Wish I could take credit for it but I read it elsewhere.


Or option C) The use of the word "retarded" is offensive because a better, less derogatory term has come into use.

And what term would be satisfactory? Dick Clark sounds mentally challenged? Dick Clark sounds special? Dick Clark sounds developmentally delayed?

Whatever word or words used to denote someone with severely stunted intelligence is an insult because no one wants to be retarded/delayed/special. No matter how many times we replace the word. You can start calling retarded people "Golden sparkly geniuses" and in no time at all it will be used as an insult. There's nothing you or any other Language Police (I'm looking at you, Fish) can do about it.

[bucketybuck]

No. Being a person with mental disabilities is not good or bad, it's just a thing you can be.

No, its just a thing you are. (hurr hurr hurr)

Having disabilities is not bad

Seriously, you are retarded.

[Rumor_Watkins]

Being these things doesn't make you a bad person, obviously, but they are drawbacks. They are disabilities.


They're not disabilities. They're life challenges. :D

[Stoid]

I'd pit people who pit people who use perfectly useful words that have lately been designated as rude for no good reason that I've ever heard of, except that's kinda mentally disabled.

[bup]

Palin-AmericanStealing.

[AClockworkMelon]

Don't worry bro, there's plenty of tards out there living really kickass lives. My first wife was retarded and she's a pilot.

[BrotherCadfael]

Is mentally challenged what people are calling it these days?

So, it's offensive because there exists a term that is less offensive than it. I don't think I've ever seen single-sentence circular reasoning before. Nicely done.Aaannnnndddd... now the term of art insult in grade schools is "challenged". So what term will you new come up with as the inoffensive and hence "correct" was to describe a person of less than normal intelligence.

[Guinastasia]

Sounds like some people here need to get off the short bus.

[Pyper]

I work in special education, and the term in vogue nowadays is "intellectual disability." However, "mentally retarded" is still widely used as an official classification.

My take on it: "retarded" will continue to be used as an insult as long as people perceive being mentally retarded as something bad. And people will always perceive mental retardation as bad. It's not useful to get upset about what insults people use, you'll only end up on the euphemism treadmill. Soon enough, people will be saying, "What are you, intellectually disabled?"

[Lobot]

I've only skimmed this thread, but let me expand upon what I said in the Dick Clark thread.

I'm disabled, and I absolutely, 100% think you do yourself no favours with this attitude, painting yourself as an oversensitive ninny with too much time on your hands. Furthermore, by talking about the opinions of "MANY in the disabled community", you attempt to intimidate those who disagree into silence while speaking for those of us who want no part in your linguistic fascism.

The result of every instance of this hysterical insistence on only approved words being used in approved contexts (never mind the speaker's intent) is that people feel they have to play a game of Russian Roulette whenever they speak to someone in a wheelchair. This is only exacerbated by the fact that every one of the word police seems to have their own idea about which words are kosher.

You know how sometimes people seem hyper-aware of their language when talking to a disabled person? "Am I being sensitive but not condescending? What if I cause offence? Oh God, Johnnie, don't stare at the poor man!" etc., etc. It's because of this word roulette bullshit that nice, good-hearted, well-meaning people feel so on edge when conversing with the disabled.

This is why people in wheelchairs are regarded as different and alien and existing in a whole other sphere--because hypersensitive fuckheads would rather berate people about well-intentioned word usage, reinforcing the idea that the disabled should be tip-toed around rather than treated like anyone else.

etv78, you and your ilk are doing nothing but a disservice to those of us who are just going about our day-to-day lives trying to be a regular part of society.

If you want to spaz-out like some fucking mongoloid cripple, knock yourself out, but don't drag the rest of us into it just to support one of your retarded "berserk buttons", you imbecile.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

MR is still a valid medical term still in current use (not all intellectual disabilities are caused by MR, by the way, so those words are not interchangable).

It's not offensive or insulting if used accurately, and it was used accurately, not disparagingly, in the Dick Clark thread.

[Gorsnak]

Meh. There is always going to be some politically correct term for people a couple standard deviations below average intelligence. This term will be used in educational settings to refer to the darling little morons because the precious little imbeciles need extra attention from the teachers, if not dedicated classes just for idiots. And, kids being kids, the average intelligence precious little snowflakes will use that nice politically correct term for cretins to insult their compatriots. This derogatory vernacular usage of the term will eventually become more prominent than the clinical usage, and there will be two reactions - those who howl against the wind like the OP trying to retard the derogatory usage, and those who come up with some new, non-derogatory clinical PC term for people who are exceptionally stupid.

It's the Circle of Life.

[Stoid]

I'm disabled, and I absolutely, 100% think you do yourself no favours with this attitude, painting yourself as an oversensitive ninny with too much time on your hands. Furthermore, by talking about the opinions of "MANY in the disabled community", you attempt to intimidate those who disagree into silence while speaking for those of us who want no part in your linguistic fascism.

...
If you want to spaz-out like some fucking mongoloid cripple, knock yourself out, but don't drag the rest of us into it just to support one of your retarded "berserk buttons", you imbecile.

I give it a 10.

And this goes for pretty much everything in life. Being ultra sensitive seems like a profoundly pointless way to invest one's energy, and only good can come from relaxing, being open, being willing to acknowledge the obvious. It seems so much more alienating for people to be obsessively concerned about not saying the wrong thing than for people to be inclusive and okay with the risk of saying something that might be perceived as insensitive.

On Oprah's new show looking for someone to have their own show, one of the "contestants" is a super-cute young guy with cerebral palsy who wants to do a travel show about dealing with the problems that come up when you travel, "you" being everyone, not just the disabled. And I LOVE him... oprah's exchange with him went something like this (he's in a wheelchair and has slightly impaired speech)

Oprah: So I hear you want to make cerebral palsy sexy?

CGIW (Cute Guy in Wheelchair): Well, I've always thought of cerebral as the sexiest of all the palsies... (much laughter)

Oprah: Do you think you'll have enough energy and stamina to do a travel show?

CGIW: I spend my wholeday sitting in a chair, I think I'll have plenty of stamina.


Oprah: So you want to talk about the problems that come with travel:

CGIW: Yes. It's a fact that something will always go wrong when you travel, and it's all about the attitude you have dealing with it. Since I know things are going to go wrong I just look forward to losing my luggage and being dragged around in a wagon.


He's adorable. I want him to win.

[Stoid]

Cool, I found his audition (http://myown.oprah.com/audition/index.html?request=video_details&response_id=5615&promo_id=1) and I he's already got a huge following it seems. He's very clever and cute and he would go a LONG way to getting people to chill the fuck out about disabilities.

[needscoffee]

Cool, I found his audition (http://myown.oprah.com/audition/index.html?request=video_details&response_id=5615&promo_id=1) and I he's already got a huge following it seems. He's very clever and cute and he would go a LONG way to getting people to chill the fuck out about disabilities.He is great. He needs a show, any show.

[BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed]

Calling developmentally delayed people morons, which is an old medical term: offensive. Calling someone with normal intelligence a moron: not offensive. Same with idiot.

What makes retarded different or special?

[BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed]

Cool, I found his audition (http://myown.oprah.com/audition/index.html?request=video_details&response_id=5615&promo_id=1) and I he's already got a huge following it seems. He's very clever and cute and he would go a LONG way to getting people to chill the fuck out about disabilities.

He is great. He needs a show, any show.

Seen Josh Blue (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbMg1dLYqg8&feature=related)?

[AClockworkMelon]

I can't fucking wait to read the OP's response to Lobot. Please God, let there be a response.

[iamnotbatman]

I can't fucking wait to read the OP's response to Lobot. Please God, let there be a response.

And if there are any mentally retard dopers out there, I encourage them to chime in too. (Dio, this is your moment)

[aldiboronti]

Lobot wins the thread by a country mile!

May condescension always be met by such a hearty fuck you!

[ecco477]

I posted a thread about my sadness at seeing Dick Clark's failing health. After we got back on track after being derailed by a discussion disabled people's right to be in public, someone said Dick looked "retarded", causing another diversion of the thread. I'm being painted as hypersensitive for being offended by the word's use. IMO, the word is no different than "cripple", "faggot", or "nigger".

I would like to personally apologize for using this words sarcastically for many years....my sister is also very offended when people use the word "retarded." Being a Bostonian(http://www.facebook.com/pages/Im-not-rude-Im-just-from-Massachusetts/10150104328520650) we are literally "taught" to use these words as adjectives. This is not a justification. It's a norm. Especially in the city.

I guess I'm writing to let you know people aren't being rude to you or to disabled people. My theory...right and wrong are defined by the circles you travel in....

Obviously we didn't travel in your circle. Sorry.

[ecco477]

And what term would be satisfactory? Dick Clark sounds mentally challenged? Dick Clark sounds special? Dick Clark sounds developmentally delayed? Okay...now that's funny--

Whatever word or words used to denote someone with severely stunted intelligence is an insult because no one wants to be retarded/delayed/special. No matter how many times we replace the word. You can start calling retarded people "Golden sparkly geniuses" and in no time at all it will be used as an insult. There's nothing you or any other Language Police (I'm looking at you, Fish) can do about it.LOLOL....and what if I DO want to be retarded/delayed/special? I have Asperger's, which makes me uniquely qualified to say...this is funny s#%t! ;)

I'm sure I'll be called "inappropriate" but what else is new? I have that right....I'm special! But am I.............................A Golden Sparkly Genius?

[Stratocaster]

And again, that has nothing to do with this thread, because the usage of "retarded" that set off the OP was not an insult.Whether or not the OP was a non sequitur, this thread quickly (and predictably) transformed into the standard defense (and use) of any form of the word a given poster prefers. Not sure how you can read this thread, and all the oh-so-clever insults, and repeat this comment.

Lobot, people already treat the mentally retarded as sub-human. If you think reacting to a usage that uses that group of people as a frame of reference for contempt doesn't contribute to that, you're misguided. My brother has people call him a retard to his face. He just needs to get over it, I guess.

[AClockworkMelon]

Whether or not the OP was a non sequitur, this thread quickly (and predictably) transformed into the standard defense (and use) of any form of the word a given poster prefers. Not sure how you can read this thread, and all the oh-so-clever insults, and repeat this comment.

Lobot, people already treat the mentally retarded as sub-human. If you think reacting to a usage that uses that group of people as a frame of reference for contempt doesn't contribute to that, you're misguided. My brother has people call him a retard to his face. He just needs to get over it, I guess.His beef should be with the people insulting him with it, not the word. If someone calls him an asshole you're not going to post in a pit thread declaring that the word "asshole" is now off-limits.

[ecco477]

And if there are any mentally retard dopers out there, I encourage them to chime in too. (Dio, this is your moment)

I know you may not have respect for what you consider "stupid" people's opinions, but the rules on this board pretty much require that you do. I know it's difficult, but try.

Because people with disabilities are "lacking" in the normalsies of life, we tend to rely a great deal on instincts to judge situations. If our instincts tell us that you are just being cruel or disrespectful, we will know--and take issue. I'm all for sarcastic banter, but the condescension is ridiculous.

Don't you know that being condescending reveals the stunted thinking and emotional insecurities of you? High functioning Narcissists, bi-polars, borderline's, all notorious for their condescending personalities due to the emotionally crippling nature of their disabilities. Are you one of these? If so, then I guess that makes you "special" too! :D Even if you don't know it....(kiss noise)

The above is just plain disrespectful. Nothing more....nothing less.

[Hentor the Barbarian]

Given that “berserk” means frenzied or crazy, why would you use such a derogatory term for the mentally ill to describe your own inability to control yourself?

To be serious, though, I find the concept of a “berserk button” fascinating. If you recognize that you have a “berserk button,” which to me suggests that there is something someone else can do that will make you completely lose control of yourself, then the thing to do is to work on improving your ability to control yourself. It’s no strength to give others the ability to make you freak out.

Going around to each individual to whom you’ve given such power in order to ask them not to ever use it is not likely going to be a successful strategy.

[madmonk28]

Man, there are some hateful fucks on this board.

[Canadjun]

I've only skimmed this thread, but let me expand upon what I said in the Dick Clark thread.

I'm disabled, and I absolutely, 100% think you do yourself no favours with this attitude, painting yourself as an oversensitive ninny with too much time on your hands. Furthermore, by talking about the opinions of "MANY in the disabled community", you attempt to intimidate those who disagree into silence while speaking for those of us who want no part in your linguistic fascism.

The result of every instance of this hysterical insistence on only approved words being used in approved contexts (never mind the speaker's intent) is that people feel they have to play a game of Russian Roulette whenever they speak to someone in a wheelchair. This is only exacerbated by the fact that every one of the word police seems to have their own idea about which words are kosher.

You know how sometimes people seem hyper-aware of their language when talking to a disabled person? "Am I being sensitive but not condescending? What if I cause offence? Oh God, Johnnie, don't stare at the poor man!" etc., etc. It's because of this word roulette bullshit that nice, good-hearted, well-meaning people feel so on edge when conversing with the disabled.

This is why people in wheelchairs are regarded as different and alien and existing in a whole other sphere--because hypersensitive fuckheads would rather berate people about well-intentioned word usage, reinforcing the idea that the disabled should be tip-toed around rather than treated like anyone else.

etv78, you and your ilk are doing nothing but a disservice to those of us who are just going about our day-to-day lives trying to be a regular part of society.

If you want to spaz-out like some fucking mongoloid cripple, knock yourself out, but don't drag the rest of us into it just to support one of your retarded "berserk buttons", you imbecile.

I think Lobot is my hero. I'm paraplegic, so yes I am crippled, I am a cripple, I am disabled, I have a disability, I am handicapped, I have a handicap. Take your pick. A rose by any other name...

[Czarcasm]

I think Lobot is my hero. I'm paraplegic, so yes I am crippled, I am a cripple, I am disabled, I have a disability, I am handicapped, I have a handicap. Take your pick. A rose by any other name...Differently brained?

[Chessic Sense]

Being blind is not bad. Being deaf is not bad. Being disabled in anyway is not bad.

Yu hu

The effects of something being bad is different than the thing itself being bad.

Nu uh.

[Vinyl Turnip]

Man, there are some hateful fucks on this board.

True. But if not for them, the sanctimonious fucks wouldn't have anything to do.

[Cat Whisperer]

His beef should be with the people insulting him with it, not the word. If someone calls him an asshole you're not going to post in a pit thread declaring that the word "asshole" is now off-limits.
If the word "asshole" becomes off-limits, I might as well just turn in my driver's license.

{Makes a note - insult Lobot and Canadjun just like everyone else. :D }

[Yorikke]

There is a difference between saying that someone sounds retarded, vs. saying that they sound like a retard.

The second is offensive, the first is not.

Joe

[Pyper]

MR is still a valid medical term still in current use (not all intellectual disabilities are caused by MR, by the way, so those words are not interchangable).


Actually, those two terms are interchangeable. (http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/dd/ddmr.htm) Intellectual disability is the new preferred term, although MR is still widely used. If you are thinking something acquired later in life such as dementia or traumatic brain injury is an intellectual disability, you have your terminology incorrect.

[Tom Scud]

Also idiotic, cretinous, and imbecilic. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_retardation#History_of_the_terminology)

I'd say he's a fool.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Actually, those two terms are interchangeable. (http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/dd/ddmr.htm) Intellectual disability is the new preferred term, although MR is still widely used. If you are thinking something acquired later in life such as dementia or traumatic brain injury is an intellectual disability, you have your terminology incorrect..
MR is only one kind of intellectual disability. I've worked in the field for years and have taught special ed and LD. Brain injuries certainly can cause intellectual disabilities, but so can autism, so can degenerative diseases like Alzheimers, and certain LD's (such as dyslexia) can be characterized as intellectual disabilities.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Wiki definition of Intellectual Disability (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_disability):
Intellectual disability is a broad concept encompassing various intellectual deficits, including mental retardation (MR), deficits too mild to properly qualify as MR, various specific conditions (such as specific learning disability), and problems acquired later in life through acquired brain injuries or neurodegenerative diseases like dementia. Intellectual disabilities may appear at any age.

[Pyper]

.
MR is only one kind of intellectual disability. I've worked in the field for years and have taught special ed and LD. Brain injuries certainly can cause intellectual disabilities, but so can autism, so can degenerative diseases like Alzheimers, and certain LD's (such as dyslexia) can be characterized as intellectual disabilities.

Sorry, you are incorrect, or at least your information is out-of-date. Intellectual disability must be diagnosed in childhood (see here (http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/dd/mr3.htm#causes)), so degenerative diseases and injuries occurring later do not count. The primary characteristic of learning disabilities is a normal to above average IQ paired with significantly impaired academic performance. (See here (http://www.greatschools.org/special-education/LD-ADHD/evaluation-and-eligibility-for-specific-learning-disabilities.gs?content=943) for the IDEA definition.) Mental retardation/intellectual disability are NOT synonymous with learning disability because the primary characteristic of MR/ID is low IQ.

MR is not a subcategory of intellectual disability, the two terms are interchangeable. Autism can be co-morbid with intellectual disability, but is not a type of intellectual disability, as some people with autism have normal intelligence.

[Pyper]

Wiki definition of Intellectual Disability (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_disability):

I'll take the IDEA and CDC definitions over wikipedia. There is a lot of confusion about the terms, but I am using the definitions as outlined in IDEA 2004.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

The wikipedia definition comes from the DSM IV. I also happen to know for a fact that diagnoses like MI are referred to under the umbrella of "intellectual disabilities" by professionals in related fields (like me).

[Pyper]

The wikipedia definition comes from the DSM IV. I also happen to know for a fact that diagnoses like MI are referred to under the umbrella of "intellectual disabilities" by professionals in related fields (like me).

Check your cite a little more thoroughly:

Intellectual disability is also increasingly being used as a synonym for the term mental retardation as used in standard medical references.[note 1]

"Note 1" leads to a cite to the DSM IV.

None of the other assertions in that article are cited to the DSM IV. So, in other words, the DSM IV agrees with me, and the CDC, and IDEA 2004.

And now I must go to work.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

"Increasingly being used as a synonymn" does not mean "exclusively with no other meaning." I know how those words are used in the field. I'm not speculating.

[etv78]

I think Lobot is my hero. I'm paraplegic, so yes I am crippled, I am a cripple, I am disabled, I have a disability, I am handicapped, I have a handicap. Take your pick. A rose by any other name...

Canadjun-I'm in wheelchair as well. I was a student at a school for kids with disabilities (physical). Kids with my disability called each other "'bif" (short for Spina Bifida) regularly. We usually thought it was funny. But if anyone else did? HELL to pay. "Cripple" was in the name of the school early in its history, but was eventually dropped, for much the same reason Negro isn't used much anymore (the UNCF being the obvious exception).

In addition to the fact I needed to sleep, the reason I'm only just now coming back to defend myself: I'm not going to change your mind, you won't change mine, so we'll agree to disagree.

[Hal Briston]

A few things I've posted on this previously:

My wife used to work for The ARC. If you ask anyone there what "ARC" stands for, it doesn't stand for anything anymore...it's just "The ARC". It used to stand for the "Association of Retarded Citizens", but not anymore.

Direct quote from the director of my wife's office: "How can you tell if someone has no personal interaction with the developmentally disabled? They think the word 'retarded' is offensive". As with many PC things, the only ones offended are those who have to be told to be offended.

[sqweels]

Well, I've always thought of cerebral as the sexiest of all the palsies...
That reminds me. It's been a long time since I've heard the word "palsy" used to refer to someone lacking in intelligence or coordination.

Bring that one back, I say.

Name Calling = High School
So it's moved up into more mature circles?

Wait, what am I thinking?

Name Calling = Talk Radio

[sqweels]

My wife used to work for The ARC. If you ask anyone there what "ARC" stands for, it doesn't stand for anything anymore...it's just "The ARC". It used to stand for the "Association of Retarded Citizens", but not anymore.
I thought it used to stand for Alabama Raw Chicken. ;)

[iamnotbatman]

I know you may not have respect for what you consider "stupid" people's opinions, but the rules on this board pretty much require that you do.

Welcome to the BBQ Pitt, noobers.

[singular1]

Speaking of Palin, is it acceptable to call her vagina a tard-cannon?

I'm thinking no, but I'd like the OP's assessment.

do you have any idea how hard it's gonna be to work this into casual conversation? I just tried to tell my husband, and I was cracking up as soon as I got to the word "Palin".

[pikey pete]

OP, please, find something worthy to do with your time (which is quite obviously abundant,) which doesn't involve worrying about what other people are saying. If you get offended by words, rather than actions, then your priorities are obviously misplaced.

[Lobot]

etv78, do you at least get the point I'm trying to make?

I was born with my disability (muscular dystrophy) as well, and I share the same birth year as yourself (1978) also. And similarly, there was a school for the physically disabled nearby to where I lived (known as the "School for Crippled Children" at the time).

So, in many ways, our experiences may be quite similar indeed.

However, I instead went to a local, mainstream public school between the ages of 4 and 11. When it was time to move onto high school, I attended a mainstream public school that had a separate section for those who had attended the "School for Crippled Children". I, however, continued to be integrated into the rest of the school.

It was immediately apparent to me that those children who had gone through the system via the "Crippled" route had an institutionalised mentality. The scope of what they wanted to achieve with their lives was so limited because their sense of self was inextricably linked to the fact that they were "disabled".

Maybe the problem here is that I'm not actually part of the "disabled community" in that I don't view myself as apart from wider society. Maybe those who do are prone to this kind of overreaction, where words alone can trigger meltdowns without any regard to context. My own bit of armchair psychoanalysis says that it's a way for those who feel powerless to try and regain some sense of control by being the arbiters of what can be considered "appropriate" language in their midst.

But I see this as fruitless and really quite counterproductive. People from the wider community who will rally to your cause will only be alienated when you berate them for well-intentioned turns of phrase. By all means, shout down those who are malicious and wish to spread hate, but the people who have shown no evidence of maliciousness deserve better, IMHO. You'll win more support in the long run by embracing those who mean well than by shouting them down for perceived ignorance with regard to "off limits" words.

What was to be gained by this Pit thread? I want you to seriously consider this.

There's so much more to life than this nonsense. Relax a bit more and you might be happier for it.

[etv78]

Lobot-we do have similiar life experiences (I was manistreamed until age 17). I DO see myself as a "person with a disability" not the other way around. I was transported to grade school with kids with Down Syndrome, and my mother's two closest friends have kids with Down Syndrome (one's brother is my bro's longtime pal).

1 final question for everyone who participitated in this thread: How difficult is it to avoid using words that are harsh and mean, really?

[Eyebrows 0f Doom]

How difficult is it to avoid using words that are harsh and mean, really?

LOL.

[Lobot]

1 final question for everyone who participitated in this thread: How difficult is it to avoid using words that are harsh and mean, really?

It's not difficult at all. What's in dispute is what constitutes "harsh and mean". Nobody called Dick Clark a "fucking tardo loser" or anything similar; the gist of the "retarded" remark was that he sounded like he wasn't all there, cognitively-speaking.

I grew up in a family where nothing is too tasteless to discuss, so maybe my perception is warped, but I don't really believe words alone can hurt--it's how they're used that's important.

[Bosstone]

Fuckin' A.

[Peeta Mellark]

It was immediately apparent to me that those children who had gone through the system via the "Crippled" route had an institutionalised mentality. The scope of what they wanted to achieve with their lives was so limited because their sense of self was inextricably linked to the fact that they were "disabled".

Maybe the problem here is that I'm not actually part of the "disabled community" in that I don't view myself as apart from wider society. Maybe those who do are prone to this kind of overreaction, where words alone can trigger meltdowns without any regard to context. My own bit of armchair psychoanalysis says that it's a way for those who feel powerless to try and regain some sense of control by being the arbiters of what can be considered "appropriate" language in their midst.

I think you may be onto something, as I've noticed something similar in certain segments of the LGBT population and it may exist in other marginalized "communities" as well. I'm not sure what the common thread is among those who so deeply embrace this victim mentality and obsess over words when actions are more important, but there does seem to be one. I find it ultimately self-defeating and a way of psychologically hobbling oneself, though.

I'll usually refrain from using language that hurts those around me if asked, but aren't we better off and stronger if we don't let ourselves be constantly injured by language? As mentioned upthread, if you stop using one word because people have used it as an insult another euphemism will become an insult.

[Lobot]

I'm not sure what the common thread is among those who so deeply embrace this victim mentality and obsess over words when actions are more important, but there does seem to be one. I find it ultimately self-defeating and a way of psychologically hobbling oneself, though.

Exactly. But the word "victim" here is important, because as soon as you define yourself that way, you're buying into the idea that life is something that happens to you instead having power over your own destiny. Of course shitty things happen to people that they can't control, but when that becomes your guiding philosophy, you're dooming yourself to a life of misery.

Even just "warning" someone about your "berserk button" is a way of aligning yourself with powerlessness. In effect, the message is, "I am not responsible for my own response to your words; if you push my buttons, I will respond in a manner that I cannot control." It's the Bruce Banner defence, and it's really a bit of a cop-out.

[Stratocaster]

His beef should be with the people insulting him with it, not the word. If someone calls him an asshole you're not going to post in a pit thread declaring that the word "asshole" is now off-limits.Right. That makes perfect sense. All insulting words are identical, and calling someone an asshole is exactly the same as calling a mentally retarded person a retard to his face. "Nigger" okay, too, for everyday usage?

[Vinyl Turnip]

Well, no. Just for special occasions.

[etv78]

Lobot-telling someone they said something you find offensive is "playing the victim"?

[RedFury]

..."Nigger" okay, too, for everyday usage?

Nigger, please, what are you? A 'tard?

[Lobot]

Lobot-telling someone they said something you find offensive is "playing the victim"?

No, but in my experience, people waiting to be offended by others do indeed have the "victim" mindset.

Meanwhile, warning others as an "FYI" that a certain word will likely trigger a "berserk" response in you is indeed a "victim" move. You're claiming to be victim to your own emotions. (it's a bit drama-queenish, too, IMHO.) You can't control your initial, internal reaction; you can control what happens after that.

[Peeta Mellark]

"Nigger" okay, too, for everyday usage?

I only use it on Christmas and my grandmother's birthday.

[Stratocaster]

Man, there are some hateful fucks on this board.Yup.

[Nzinga, Seated]

"Nigger" okay, too, for everyday usage?

Yep!

[Biggirl]

Right. That makes perfect sense. All insulting words are identical, and calling someone an asshole is exactly the same as calling a mentally retarded person a retard to his face. "Nigger" okay, too, for everyday usage?

Not exactly. Calling a a mentally retarded person a retard to his face is like calling a black person black to his face.

[Biggirl]

Not exactly. Calling a a mentally retarded person a retard to his face is like calling a black person black to his face.

I want to take this one step further. Calling a black person African-American to his face is like calling a mentally retarded person special to his face.

[Lobot]

Well, "retard" as a noun is pretty clearly a slur. I daresay calling a mentally retarded person a "retard" is akin to calling a black person "nigger" or a gay person "faggot".

[AClockworkMelon]

Right. That makes perfect sense. All insulting words are identical, and calling someone an asshole is exactly the same as calling a mentally retarded person a retard to his face. "Nigger" okay, too, for everyday usage?"Nigger" exists only to insult an entire race. "Retard" has been, is, and will continue to be widely used to refer to stupid things and people as well as the mentally retarded. What are you, special needs or something?

[Biggirl]

Well, "retard" as a noun is pretty clearly a slur. I daresay calling a mentally retarded person a "retard" is akin to calling a black person "nigger" or a gay person "faggot".

The same thing is happening to the word 'Jew'. I get nary a glance if I ask "Is Joe Jewish?" but people stop a little startled if I ask "Is Joe a Jew?". It's like the noun case sounds accusatory or something.

[Acsenray]

The same thing is happening to the word 'Jew'. I get nary a glance if I ask "Is Joe Jewish?" but people stop a little startled if I ask "Is Joe a Jew?". It's like the noun case sounds accusatory or something.

That's not new. I recall a Jewish friend of my dad's explaining how he felt uncomfortable hearing "Jew" and preferred "Jewish." that was probably 30 years ago.

[Lobot]

The same thing is happening to the word 'Jew'. I get nary a glance if I ask "Is Joe Jewish?" but people stop a little startled if I ask "Is Joe a Jew?". It's like the noun case sounds accusatory or something.

It has connotations of objectification, I suppose.

[Lobot]

Note also that racists always talk about dirty Jews, not dirty Jewish people, because it classifies them as things rather than people.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

The adjective is descriptive and the noun sounds definitive - like it's all the person is. A lot depends on tone, though.

[BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed]

I live one town over from a "school for weak children." Maybe that'll catch on in the states!

[Biggirl]

I live one town over from a "school for weak children." Maybe that'll catch on in the states!

Me and my son are in disagreement. Are they easily tempted or really out of shape?

[elmwood]

This thread is totally developmentally delayed.

It is, indeed, a special thread.

[Guinastasia]

Given that “berserk” means frenzied or crazy, why would you use such a derogatory term for the mentally ill to describe your own inability to control yourself?

My love for you is like a truck BERSERKER!
Would you like some making fuck BERSERKER!



Now, if you'll excuse me, this spaz is going out to have a fit.

[BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed]

Me and my son are in disagreement. Are they easily tempted or really out of shape?

Never been in. It'd be pretty interesting if it were a school to study how weak children's willpower is. Like there's a room for the fat kids with pastries all over the place, and a room for the procrastinators with a bunch of video games.

Maybe they administer electric shocks in the upper grades.

[Max the Immortal]

IMO, the word is no different than "cripple", "faggot", or "nigger".

I see it as more akin to "blind" or "deaf". Blindness and deafness are objectively undesirable traits. If they invented a pill that gives perfect vision to the blind, it's perfectly fine to say, "Great! Let's get this pill to as many blind people as possible.". Likewise, it's fine to want to distribute a hearing-granting pill to as many deaf people as possible. It's not acceptable to mock a blind person for being blind or to mock a deaf person for being deaf, but saying "What are you, blind?" or "What are you, deaf?" to the unafflicted are acceptable because it is understood that the intention is not to disparage the blind or the deaf.

In contrast, being black is not an objectively undesirable trait. Slurs like "nigger" carry with them the assertion that blackness is a bad thing. If they invented a pill that turns black people white, it is not at all okay to say, "Great! Let's get this pill to as many black people as possible.". The same rules apply for the word "faggot" and a pill that turns gay people straight. It is not acceptable to mock black people for being black or gay people for being gay. It is also unacceptable to use expressions like "That's so gay." in a sense that does not mean homosexual, because the statement still carries with it the assertion that homosexuality is a bad thing.

Now let's consider mental disabilities. Is a mental disability an objectively undesirable trait? If they invented a pill that grants normal mental faculties to the mentally disabled, would it be helpful or hateful to try to distribute this pill to as many mentally disabled people as possible? I think we all agree that it is not acceptable to mock a mentally disabled person for being mentally disabled, but does saying "What are you, retarded?" to a normally bright person when they fail to understand instructions or a joke also disparage people with mental disabilities?

[Stratocaster]

Not exactly. Calling a a mentally retarded person a retard to his face is like calling a black person black to his face.Nope. "Retard" in this usage is unambiguously a slur.

[Biggirl]

Nope. "Retard" in this usage is unambiguously a slur.

Nope. Retard is not unambiguously a slur. It is retarded in noun form. Tell me, Stratocaster (or anyone else who goes berserk when they hear any form of the word 'retarded') because I have asked this question repeatedly but have never gotten a direct answer: What would YOU call them?

Particularly, what word would you have chosen in the sentence that started this thread in the first place: Dick Clark sounds retarded? Or, if you wish, Dick Clark sounds like a retard? I keep reading that there are better terms. Please tell me how to express this thought without hurting your feelings.

[DianaG]

It's just amusing to me that we're still stuck on "retarded" when "special", "delayed", and "differently abled" are already widely used as insults. There's no word or combination of words that you can devise to describe "stupid" that won't shortly and inevitably be used as an insult.

[Hal Briston]

Did she just say "making fuck"?

[Hentor the Barbarian]

Did she just say "making fuck"?Yes, and it seemed like an offer, too. I'll have to give it some thought.

[Stoid]

It's just amusing to me that we're still stuck on "retarded" when "special", "delayed", and "differently abled" are already widely used as insults. There's no word or combination of words that you can devise to describe "stupid" that won't shortly and inevitably be used as an insult.

Exactly, precisely, and there ya have what the fundamental problem is with constantly reinventing ways to say things to avoid being insulting.

[Cagey Drifter]

Let's all read this fascinating article on Wikipedia, which addresses the use of this particular word over time:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemism_treadmill#Euphemism_treadmill

[Stratocaster]

Nope. Retard is not unambiguously a slur. It is retarded in noun form. Tell me, Stratocaster (or anyone else who goes berserk when they hear any form of the word 'retarded') because I have asked this question repeatedly but have never gotten a direct answer: What would YOU call them?I don't go beserk, but I'll answer anyway. I would say "mentally retarded" to refer to the mentally retarded. But sorry, you're wrong, "retard" (used as noun, as I noted) is to "mentally retarded person" as "nigger" is to "black person." It's a slur (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/retard):re·tard 2 (rtärd)
n. Offensive Slang
1. Used as a disparaging term for a mentally retarded person.
2. A person considered to be foolish or socially inept.You can say, "well, I don't mean it that way," and so could someone saying, "nigger." But that won't change the fact that it is by definition a derogatory term.

[Stratocaster]

Particularly, what word would you have chosen in the sentence that started this thread in the first place: Dick Clark sounds retarded? Or, if you wish, Dick Clark sounds like a retard? I keep reading that there are better terms. Please tell me how to express this thought without hurting your feelings.Missed the edit window. My feelings weren't hurt, though I'd point out that the mentally retarded do not all act and sound the same. My reaction in this thread is less to the OP--I don't think "mentally retarded" is a slur by itself--and more to the predictable chorus that follows, including the clever, clever insults directed at people who self-identify as having loved ones who are mentally retarded.

[etv78]

What I would've said/thought at hte time: "He looks awful."

[Richard Pearse]

What I would've said/thought at hte time: "He looks awful."
Awful in what way?

[Biggirl]

I don't go beserk, but I'll answer anyway. I would say "mentally retarded" to refer to the mentally retarded. But sorry, you're wrong, "retard" (used as noun, as I noted) is to "mentally retarded person" as "nigger" is to "black person." It's a slur (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/retard):You can say, "well, I don't mean it that way," and so could someone saying, "nigger." But that won't change the fact that it is by definition a derogatory term.

Well I see you your definition and raise you one:

Definition of RETARD
1
\ri-ˈtärd\ : a holding back or slowing down : retardation
2
\ˈrē-ˌtärd\ often offensive : a retarded person; also : a person held to resemble a retarded person in behavior


It is not unambiguously offensive. It can be offensive but it also descriptive.



What I would've said/thought at hte time: "He looks awful."


Was he dressed funny? Did he look sick? Was his hair un-styled? And how did he sound? Because that was what was being described. He sounded retarded. Oh, excuse me-- he sounded mentally retarded.

[AClockworkMelon]

He sounded retarded. Oh, excuse me-- he sounded mentally retarded.Isn't it supposed to be "he sounded like a retard"? All these rules are confusing.

[ecco477]

The word "special" is also used insultingly......As long as you don't do it in the company of someone who is "special", I don't really see the harm. The same with "retarded."

Agreed, we should do it behind their backs--:eek:

[ecco477]

What I would've said/thought at hte time: "He looks awful."

That is the worst! I hate it when I'm really sick, high fever, haven't showered in three days because it'll be too damn cold getting out of the shower...and your friend comes over and reminds you "you look aweful!" As skanky as I looked and felt, I'd rather have my friend giggle and say "you look retarded." That might lift my spirits, and possibly get me in the shower.(I do however, have a very sick sense of humor...dead baby jokes anyone?:eek:)

[BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed]

I don't go beserk, but I'll answer anyway. I would say "mentally retarded" to refer to the mentally retarded. But sorry, you're wrong, "retard" (used as noun, as I noted) is to "mentally retarded person" as "nigger" is to "black person." It's a slur (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/retard):You can say, "well, I don't mean it that way," and so could someone saying, "nigger." But that won't change the fact that it is by definition a derogatory term.

I'd be curious to see your response to Max, who said that being mentally challenged (or blind or deaf) is by definition a bad thing (note: not that the sufferers of such are bad people) while being black or gay is not inherently bad. Thus, calling someone of normal intelligence retarded does not equal calling them a nigger, because nigger is a derogatory way to refer to something not inherently bad, while retard is a derogatory way to refer to something that is.

I'd also like to see your response to my earlier point about how both moron and idiot are old clinical terms that have become acceptable insults. Why is retard different?

ETA: Also, what is your response to someone who tells you that calling someone who is mentally challenged or developmentally delayed "mentally retarded" is offensive? I would never call someone with mental problems retarded. Just like with idiot or moron, it has become completely separate for me, used only as an insult to people of normal intelligence. It surprises me, given your position in this thread, that you still use MR instead of a more up to date euphemism.

[DragonAsh]

I've only skimmed this thread, but let me expand upon what I said in the Dick Clark thread.

I'm disabled, and I absolutely, 100% think you do yourself no favours with this attitude, painting yourself as an oversensitive ninny with too much time on your hands. Furthermore, by talking about the opinions of "MANY in the disabled community", you attempt to intimidate those who disagree into silence while speaking for those of us who want no part in your linguistic fascism.

The result of every instance of this hysterical insistence on only approved words being used in approved contexts (never mind the speaker's intent) is that people feel they have to play a game of Russian Roulette whenever they speak to someone in a wheelchair. This is only exacerbated by the fact that every one of the word police seems to have their own idea about which words are kosher.

You know how sometimes people seem hyper-aware of their language when talking to a disabled person? "Am I being sensitive but not condescending? What if I cause offence? Oh God, Johnnie, don't stare at the poor man!" etc., etc. It's because of this word roulette bullshit that nice, good-hearted, well-meaning people feel so on edge when conversing with the disabled.

This is why people in wheelchairs are regarded as different and alien and existing in a whole other sphere--because hypersensitive fuckheads would rather berate people about well-intentioned word usage, reinforcing the idea that the disabled should be tip-toed around rather than treated like anyone else.

etv78, you and your ilk are doing nothing but a disservice to those of us who are just going about our day-to-day lives trying to be a regular part of society.

If you want to spaz-out like some fucking mongoloid cripple, knock yourself out, but don't drag the rest of us into it just to support one of your retarded "berserk buttons", you imbecile.

*Applauds*

(fully quoting, because the above deserves being repeated as often as possible)

[bup]

Q: How is etv78 like Todd Palin?

A: They're both fucking retards.

It took me several days to come up with that riddle.

[AClockworkMelon]

Q: How is etv78 like Todd Palin?

A: They're both fucking retards.

It took me several days to come up with that riddle.Obligatory image. (http://latewire.com/images/watermark.php/palin%20biden%20retarded%20vagina.jpg)

[tnetennba]

I think we can all agree that using the word "retarded" as a disparaging comment is really gay.

[BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed]

At least it's not niggardly.

[Cartooniverse]

"Cripple" was in the name of the school early in its history, but was eventually dropped, for much the same reason Negro isn't used much anymore (the UNCF being the obvious exception).

The NAACP might be dealing with a bit of a name problem as well, eh?

Mom was a Special Ed teacher and then administrator. When I was 19, I worked at a summer camp for- brace yourselves- mentally retarded adults. Yep. That's what the great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania called them, that is what the camp staff called them. And nobody got sued for the use of that language. Instead, everyone did their job in a professional, caring, supportive manner and tended the clients' needs. And showed them a great camp experience. I struggle to equate M.R. with the more inflammatory words cited in this thread ( none of which need to be repeated here ) There are many decades of cite proving that "mentally retarded" was and in some camps still is a clinically acceptable term for a range of deficits.

If you are dealing with someone involved in the field of caring for folks who are/were termed MR, that phrase would typically lead to a discussion that more accurately described the range of abilities/ range of deficits that the particular person lived with. For example, at camp there were Mild, Moderate, Severe and Profound. These words help to quantify the descriptor MR. Classifications in the scientific sense ( IMHO ) have nothing to do with negative terms, cruel words, hate speech or stereotyping. If a client at camp was Severely Mentally Retarded ( based upon information shared with us by his residence, family etc. ) then he would be housed with others at his capacity. Is this being derogatory? Is this bigoted or hateful? Exclusionary? No. It's a useful way to make sure that folks who function at similar levels share the same experience for the week. Nothing nefarious. Just a clinical method.

I see it as apples and oranges. The term "mentally retarded" hardly belongs in the same hatespeech category as the other terms shared in this thread.

Now, for a tangent to the OP and original thread. I'm aware that Dick Clark Productions owns New Years' Rockin' Eve as an entity and it is co-produced and aired over ABC/Disney. Clark's relationship to ABC harkens back to the earliest days of American Bandstand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Bandstand) in Philly. I think he's a pretty brilliant producer of a unique kind of product. That said, having Dick Clark host a late-night " Rockin' New Years' Eve " was- even before his stroke- a bit like having Steve Young and a host of other concussion-damaged former NFL players host a college football game broadcast. If you are pitching youth, excitement, energy, edginess and so on, you're using the wrong shill if you're using a guy who made his big mark in the late 1950's/early 1960's. Pre-stroke, it was a bit of a stretch to watch Clark gamely host a rock and rollapalooza. Now? I'm embarassed for his ego and for the damage to his product.

To be blunt, his ego prevents him from bowing out and allowing Ryan Whatshisname to be the new face. That's a production problem. That's not a politically incorrect labeling problem.

Cartooniverse

[SteveG1]

Sounds like some people here need to get off the short bus.

Isn't that "Special" :D