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View Full Version : What are the differences between country and western and between rap and hip hop?


MichaelEmouse
01-03-2011, 05:05 AM
I never hear of rap today, it's always hip hop. Did it just get a name change?

How about western music and country music, how can I tell which is which? Do they have different origins, themes, styles?

enomaj
01-03-2011, 05:41 AM
Nowadays, hip-hop refers to a lifestyle or mentality. It would include dress, speech, music(of course), political ideology. Malcolm X would be considered more hip-hop than MLK*. It's used much the same way as punk (rock).

"That is so hip-hop (punk rock)."

Four elements of hip-hop are rapping, dj-ing. b-boying(breakdancing) and tagging(graffiti). Rap is hip-hop music or hip-hop for short. Rap and hip-hop have been used interchangeably as long as I can remember. I don't know if the above definition of hip-hop was retconned or there from the beginning.


*Not because of anti-white although that IS part of it.

multimediac17
01-03-2011, 06:12 AM
Rap is what rappers do, hip-hop is the style of music they're (usually) doing it in. The terms describe two different things.

Gary T
01-03-2011, 09:34 AM
Country music rose mostly from south(east)ern rural areas, and was often called hillbilly music in the first decades of the 20th century. Western music was more from the West (duh) usually with a cowboy theme. While portions of each share some common roots from the British Isles, they're largely separate genres. Sometime in the 40's (+/-) they were lumped together as a radio format, mainly on the basis of not being part of the other radio categories of the time.

Gary T
01-03-2011, 09:41 AM
Missed the edit window to add: While modern country music has notable references to Western symbols (cowboy hats, riding a horse), it's not Western music. Even in the 20's a few country performers wore "cowboy" outfits though they weren't doing Western music. The cowboy is an irresistible American icon.

Nzinga, Seated
01-03-2011, 10:01 AM
Yeah, rap is one of the elements of hip-hop. At some point, it became common for folks to call commercial rap 'rap' and more advanced or underground rap 'hip hop'. But that isn't how it always was. Rap is hip hop, as is graffiti, break-dancing and dj-ing. I know this has already been stated in this thread, but I try to never miss an opportunity to discuss hip hop.

RealityChuck
01-03-2011, 10:03 AM
At this point, country music is what was called "country rock" in the 70s and was disdained by country music fans.

Early country music is very similar to blues -- just with white musicians. Jimmie Rodgers, one of the founders of country music, played songs that had a similar style to blues musicians of the time. The two strains diverged considerably, especially with people like the Carter Family, who were based on folk music.

Ironically, rap/hip hop also ultimately derives from the blues, though with a convoluted path.

Alessan
01-03-2011, 10:09 AM
How convoluted? As far as I can tell, it went Blues -> R&B -> Funk -> Hip-Hop.

Attack from the 3rd dimension
01-03-2011, 10:11 AM
Loretta Lynn - Coal miner's daughter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb6eMEVJ_jo)- This is country music. We're poor but we've got each other, and the bible. Joke: What do you get if you play country music backwards? You get your dog back, you get your truck back, you get your wife back.

Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys - San Antonio Rose (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l7rLA9Jm1I&feature=related) - this is classic western music. Fiddle, yodel, slide guitar, cowboy themes.

Bridget Burke
01-03-2011, 10:25 AM
But Jimmie Rodgers liked cowboy clothes (http://parlorsongs.com/insearch/cowboys/cowboys.php)! Famously, he & The Carter Family were discovered simultaneously (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_sessions). And some of the "folk" tunes A P Carter discovered were, in fact, old hymns or parlor tunes--but the copyright lawyers didn't scrutinize Hillbilly recordings. Rodgers also wore railroad clothes, showing his occupation before the TB got too bad. But both he & The Carters liked smart, up-to-date outfits (http://www.americaslibrary.gov/es/tn/es_tn_bristol_1_e.html). Other country pioneers wore the "Hillbilly Styles" favored by the Grand Ole Opry, but abandoned them for nice western wear--about the time the Mariachis turned in their white cotton peon outfits (with huaraches) for elegant charro suits & boots. (Was Nudie of Hollywood influenced by those styles just to the south?)

All this is just image; like that famous Rolling Stone (http://blogs.chron.com/40yearsafter/2008/12/doug_sahm_on_the_cover_of_the.html) cover in which Doug Sahm proved a longhair could wear a cowboy hat.

Western Swing (http://www.asleepatthewheel.com/) & Cowboy Music (http://ridersinthesky.com/) are still played. What's Nashville putting out? Many of us don't really care....

(Leaving rap & hip-hop to the experts.)

SeldomSeen
01-03-2011, 01:59 PM
Beginning about 25-30 years ago C&W music as produced by Nashville took a wrong turn and morphed into a kind of "suburban redneck music". Couldn't really blame them I guess, as that's where the money is. Those of us who truely appreciate western-themed music had to seek it out in the niche markets; the Alt. country, Americana and folk genres.

That said, there is still quite a bit of solid "western-style music out there. Singer-songwriters like Joe Ely, Jimmie Dale Gilmore, Ry Cooder, and especially the immortal Canadian folkie Ian Tyson (elderdopers may remember him from the 60's)are carrying the torch of the genuine Country & WESTERN sound.

For a stylistic comparison, check out:
A current hit from the Nashville charts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjwAucpiC6Q)

-vs-

A Western-themed Tyson classic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EasZaSxaxYs)

SS

tr0psn4j
01-03-2011, 02:02 PM
Oh, we got both kinds. We got Country, and Western.

tr0psn4j
01-03-2011, 02:05 PM
At this point, country music is what was called "country rock" in the 70s and was disdained by country music fans.

Early country music is very similar to blues -- just with white musicians. Jimmie Rodgers, one of the founders of country music, played songs that had a similar style to blues musicians of the time. The two strains diverged considerably, especially with people like the Carter Family, who were based on folk music.

Ironically, rap/hip hop also ultimately derives from the blues, though with a convoluted path.

"Country Rock," or "Country Pop?"

Either way, it has nothing on the older stuff.

An Gadaí
01-03-2011, 02:18 PM
Oh, we got both kinds. We got Country, and Western.

I'm surprised that took 12 posts. :p

Spoke
01-03-2011, 04:30 PM
But Jimmie Rodgers liked cowboy clothes (http://parlorsongs.com/insearch/cowboys/cowboys.php)!

Hank Williams (an Alabama native) was also inspired by the western styles of the cowboy serials. So much so that he wore rhinestone cowboy outfits (http://justcountry.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/hank-williams-3-fringecoat_231.jpg) and called his band the Drifting Cowboys (http://rustytruck.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/hank-williams-drifting-cowboys.jpg).

Meanwhile, the "western" acts of Texas derived much musically from their ancestors' roots in the Southern hills.

In other words, there was a lot of creative cross-pollination going on.

outlierrn
01-03-2011, 08:02 PM
Beginning about 25-30 years ago C&W music as produced by Nashville took a wrong turn and morphed into a kind of "suburban redneck music". Couldn't really blame them I guess, as that's where the money is.

I once heard a snippet attributed to Chet Atkins in which he was asked about the Nashville sound, and he resonded by pulling some change out of his pocket and jingling it, saying 'that's the Nashville sound.'

outlierrn
01-03-2011, 08:12 PM
For a stylistic comparison, check out:
A current hit from the Nashville charts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjwAucpiC6Q)

-vs-

A Western-themed Tyson classic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EasZaSxaxYs)

SS

And there you have it, Tyson isn't really my thing, but I can respect it; the big green tractor makes me reach for the vomitsmiley, if we had one, which we don't, but I think we should.

Quercus
01-04-2011, 09:10 AM
Joke: What do you get if you play country music backwards? You get your dog back, you get your truck back, you get your wife back. Don't forget you also get your job back. But you lose Jesus.


[Not saying whether it's a worthwhile swap or not]