Plots which could have been resolved by doing nothing [SPOILERS]

[Gyrate]

Here be spoilers!




...so here be some blank space for mouseover people...






One of the things that has always bugged me about the first Harry Potter book is that by solving Dumbledore's mirror puzzle Harry manages to completely circumvent the protection it gave to the Stone. Voldemort/Quirrell would have had a much harder time getting the Stone from the mirror than he/they would have from Harry's pocket, so wouldn't it have been better all around if Harry had just stayed in bed and left things as they were?

Similarly, in the first Tomb Raider movie Lara actually stops the bad guys from makng a mistake that would have prevented them from getting what they wanted (in the temple with the big Buddha statue). If she'd just left them to it, the whole crisis at the end would never have been an issue.

Am I remembering these incorrectly or could each of these evil plots have been foiled by the hero staying away? And what other books/TV shows/films etc does this apply to?

(I'm sure there's a TV Tropes page on this somewhere but I ain't going near there today - I'm wasting enough time here as it is.)

[CalMeacham]

Several Sherlock Holmes stories are like this -- Holmes' involvement reveals the facts of the case to the reader, but in several cases no action by him id required. (Sometimes he makes things better, as in The Yellow Face or The Blanched Soldier, but "no actual crime is committed", as he puts it). Holmes really isn't needed in The Case of Charles Augustus Milverton, for instance.


As others have noted pretty often, Indiana Jones could've done nothing in Raiders of the Lost Ark and things would have come out alright.

I think the "heroes" were actual nuisances in Jurassic Park II; The Lost World

[Bryan Ekers]

For all the trouble the scientists went through in The Andromeda Strain (the original), they coulda just stayed home.

[Hypno-Toad]

If the dumbass in the tank hadn't shot Klaatu, he could have just organized a meeting with all the world leaders and delivered his message.

[ecco477]

Little Miss Sunshine...

If she'd just stayed at home, she'd probably still have her grandfather. Long strenuous trips in a hot car, with aged and unhealthy people, can spontaneously bring exactly that result--Death.

Also, what good results did performing in the pageant create? That Miss Sunshine's family members have oppositional defiance disorder? Giving the thumbs-up to drug addiction from a cool, hep ol' man? Or how to violate a corpse? If the family stayed home, and the Mom got more involved in her kids lives instead of being pissed off at her husband who is an absentee father anyway, there would have been a much more productive scenario then allowing your child to be in a pagaent where there will be obviously "snooty" people who will look down upon your beautiful child that isn't "just so." We are supposed to protect our kids from circumstances that are less than optimal; not throw them into shark-infested waters. I'm with "the son" in this movie. The mother's reasons for allowing her daughter to do this are irrational and irresponsible. Children have the rest of their lives to involve themselves in self-abusing scenarios. We(as parents) don't need to show them how. JMHO.

Yes, the world should be a better place. No, there should NOT be prejudice against anyone that has a gut. Yes, I did like the move very much....I just thought the "motivation" was poor.

[Max Torque]

Big spoiler for Cube: the characters spend the whole movie trying to escape a prison of 26x26x26 rooms, that shift according to a mathematical algorithm. They eventually discover that the room they woke up in was the "bridge room", the only one that moves into position to bridge the gap between the rooms and the exit. In other words, if they'd stayed put, the room would have moved right to the exit eventually.

[bup]

Not a terribly famous movie, but Agnes Moorehead's uninvited investigation into murders in The Bat (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0052602/) caused more deaths than it prevented. It's particularly maddening since she's so smug and self-congratulatory in the last scene for having solved the mystery without reflecting on the cost.

[Malthus]

Holmes really isn't needed in The Case of Charles Augustus Milverton, for instance.


Not sure I agree with that one. It was Holmes who picked the safe containing all of Milverton's blackmail material - and destroyed it all after Milverton's death. Without Holmes, its continued existance could have led to all sorts of trouble for the (many) blackmail victims.

[CalMeacham]

Not sure I agree with that one. It was Holmes who picked the safe containing all of Milverton's blackmail material - and destroyed it all after Milverton's death. Without Holmes, its continued existance could have led to all sorts of trouble for the (many) blackmail victims.

Yeah, but he wasn't needed to "solve" the case he was hired for. It's good that he got rid of other incriminating documents, but the incident that started the case didn't need him to resolve it.

[Malthus]

Yeah, but he wasn't needed to "solve" the case he was hired for. It's good that he got rid of other incriminating documents, but the incident that started the case didn't need him to resolve it.


But there wasn't any "case to solve". Here, Holmes was hired to act as an agent for an aristocrat who was being blackmailed and could not afford the outrageous sum the blackmailer was demanding. His orders were, by hook or by crook, to either obtain, steal or destroy the letters. He originally offers the blackmailer a lesser sum, but then, when the Blackmailer turns him down - resolves on robbery.

The plot objective was that he had to remove the letters. In the end, he does just that - by burning *all* of Milverton's letters. Milverton's death was incidental to his goal (though obviously, ending his reign as blackmailer was a nice bonus, and it is true that Holmes had nothing to do with that - at best, he would have ended Milverton's *current* blackmail projects).

[iamthewalrus(:3=]

As others have noted pretty often, Indiana Jones could've done nothing in Raiders of the Lost Ark and things would have come out alright.Could he?

Sure, if he hadn't shown up and started digging, the Nazis wouldn't have found the real site as quickly, but you don't have to be brilliant to eventually realize that there might be something worthwhile on the other side of that pendant, and go looking for it again.

Hell, the measurement was in whole units of measurement. Making a dozen staffs of different multiples and digging in every spot was easily within the manpower represented there.

[Lemur866]

Could he?

Sure, if he hadn't shown up and started digging, the Nazis wouldn't have found the real site as quickly, but you don't have to be brilliant to eventually realize that there might be something worthwhile on the other side of that pendant, and go looking for it again.

Hell, the measurement was in whole units of measurement. Making a dozen staffs of different multiples and digging in every spot was easily within the manpower represented there.

Yep. Exactly. So the Nazis get the Ark with no problemo, and then conduct the ceremony to open it, which goes off without a hitch with no meddling Doctor Jones. Then all the Nazis melt, which is what happens when Nazis open the Ark of YHWH's Chosen People. Then the movie ends.

[Push You Down]

I think he is referring to the fact that the Nazis OPENED THE ARK AND ALL MELTED!

[iamthewalrus(:3=]

Yep. Exactly. So the Nazis get the Ark with no problemo, and then conduct the ceremony to open it, which goes off without a hitch with no meddling Doctor Jones. Then all the Nazis melt, which is what happens when Nazis open the Ark of YHWH's Chosen People. Then the movie ends.That's not a get-out-of-jail-free either. Unless all the Nazis who knew about the ark being opened were present at its opening, then the next group of Nazis comes, sees what happens, and starts to do some tests with better precautions.

Unless you think that Indy and Marion survived due to being pure of heart, and not due to them closing their eyes.

[Ellis Dee]

This is the Ark of the Covenant. I'm a hardline atheist, but c'mon. No way no how do the Nazis (or anyone else) manage to circumvent the wrath of god with "better precautions." There is no defense against the direct wrath of god.

[Martini Enfield]

As others have noted pretty often, Indiana Jones could've done nothing in Raiders of the Lost Ark and things would have come out alright.

Actually, things would have turned out better if Indiana Jones hadn't done anything; the Ark would have been opened in Hitler's presence- complete with the super-aging and the face-melting and the Old Testament-style Wrath of God- which would have taken out Hitler (and one presumes several other top-ranking Nazis, doubtless including people like Goebbels and Goering), and World War II would subsequently be an amusing "What If?" game for armchair military historians to play in fashionable gentlemen's clubs.

[PSXer]

Maybe Belloq still would have opened the Ark early out of his own curiosity.

[Martini Enfield]

Maybe Belloq still would have opened the Ark early out of his own curiosity.

Possibly, but remember the original plan was to fly the Ark straight from the dig site to Berlin- on the plane that Indy & Marion sabotaged. If the plane hadn't been sabotaged, the Ark would have flown straight to Der Fuhrer (more or less); cue Face-Melting. Fin.

[PSXer]

but the Indy wouldn't have gotten the girl at the end. Much more important than stopping the Nazis

[pepperlandgirl]

This is the Ark of the Covenant. I'm a hardline atheist, but c'mon. No way no how do the Nazis (or anyone else) manage to circumvent the wrath of god with "better precautions." There is no defense against the direct wrath of god.

This. I love the movie. Just watched it last week for the millionth time. But it drives me crazy, too. If Indy and everybody really believed in the Ark, then why would they think for a second that the fucking Nazis would be able to wield its power? Wouldn't God be able to tell the difference between good and Hitler? And if Indy et al didn't believe the Ark was capable of being a direct line to God, then who gives a fuck? Let Hitler spend the time and money on digging aimlessly in the desert for years. I mean, if Indy just wanted it for the principle of the thing, that's fine, but that really wasn't what was feeding the urgency of the plot. At least The Last Crusade almost presented a credible threat, since presumably the Cup would work regardless of who wielded it--of course, the Holy Grail couldn't be removed, but at least Indy had the added motivation of rescuing his dad.

[PSXer]

It is a great historical find even if Indy doesn't really believe in it. No archaeologist of Indy's caliber could turn down the chance to find it.

[Sr Siete]

but the Indy wouldn't have gotten the girl at the end. Much more important than stopping the Nazis

Yeah, and then Shia LaBeouf wouldn't have been born and there would be no Indy IV.

And that would have been even better than just the killing Hitler thing.

[Martini Enfield]

This. I love the movie. Just watched it last week for the millionth time. But it drives me crazy, too. If Indy and everybody really believed in the Ark, then why would they think for a second that the fucking Nazis would be able to wield its power? Wouldn't God be able to tell the difference between good and Hitler? And if Indy et al didn't believe the Ark was capable of being a direct line to God, then who gives a fuck? Let Hitler spend the time and money on digging aimlessly in the desert for years. I mean, if Indy just wanted it for the principle of the thing, that's fine, but that really wasn't what was feeding the urgency of the plot.

And let's not even get started on the whole "Egypt was a British Protectorate at the time and I'm sure the British Government would have had something to say about heavily armed Nazis staging digs for Biblical artefacts and instigating running gun-battles through the streets of Cairo" thing, either.

The great thing is despite these flaws, it's still a brilliant movie.

[Capitaine Zombie]

And let's not even get started on the whole "Egypt was a British Protectorate at the time and I'm sure the British Government would have had something to say about heavily armed Nazis staging digs for Biblical artefacts and instigating running gun-battles through the streets of Cairo" thing, either.

The great thing is despite these flaws, it's still a brilliant movie.

Not another Indy thread, Star Wars is already taking all the breathing room.

[Der Trihs]

This. I love the movie. Just watched it last week for the millionth time. But it drives me crazy, too. If Indy and everybody really believed in the Ark, then why would they think for a second that the fucking Nazis would be able to wield its power? Wouldn't God be able to tell the difference between good and Hitler?
Would you really want to risk that an Old Testament, Job-tormenting, kill the firstborn style God wouldn't be happy to help Hitler? Would you really want to take the risk that it isn't just a power source, a weapon made by God or something else that anyone can use? It isn't like Indy had an Ark instruction manual on hand that said "Warning: Do Not Open In The Presence Of Nazis Or Face Melting May Occur".

[Kozmik]

Titanic.

[Malthus]

That's not a get-out-of-jail-free either. Unless all the Nazis who knew about the ark being opened were present at its opening, then the next group of Nazis comes, sees what happens, and starts to do some tests with better precautions.



Heh, I'm having a positively Monty Python-esque vision here, of the Ark melting one after another group of Nazis ... sort of like the Nazi version of an ant trap. :D

[bup]

How the Grinch Stole Christmas.

[Scuba_Ben]

I think the "heroes" were actual nuisances in Jurassic Park II; The Lost World

JP2 is much more watchable if you accept the dinos as the protagonists.

[silenus]

Heh, I'm having a positively Monty Python-esque vision here, of the Ark melting one after another group of Nazis ... sort of like the Nazi version of an ant trap. :D

Funny, I flashed to the scene with the light grenade in Mom and Dad Save the World.

[bouv]

Big spoiler for Cube: the characters spend the whole movie trying to escape a prison of 26x26x26 rooms, that shift according to a mathematical algorithm. They eventually discover that the room they woke up in was the "bridge room", the only one that moves into position to bridge the gap between the rooms and the exit. In other words, if they'd stayed put, the room would have moved right to the exit eventually.

Well, it wasn't the room they all woke up in, only one of them was in there to start, the others were just in the rooms next to it and found there way there. So all but one would have had to do something to get out...plus, the only reason they discovered the algorithm about how the rooms move is by going between them all and the math nerd noticing the ID numbers on the rooms.

Plus, the stress of everything caused the office guy to reveal that his company made the shell, and by giving the size, that also helped the math nerd know how big the grid was, how long it would take to do a complete "cycle," and where to go to get to the bridge room.

[Martini Enfield]

How about The Big Lebowski? If the Dude simply said "You know what, that rug really did tie the room together- but I can get another one from the discount rugs place in town" and went bowling with Walter and Donny for the rest of the film, then Bunny would have come back on her own anyway and the Nihilist's plot would have fallen over anyway.

[Lumpy]

My own w.a.g. fanwank about the Ark: Belloq and the Nazis presumed it was some sort of "Ancient Astronauts" artifact, and didn't really believe it was intended by God Himself to be for the Israelites and nobody but the Israelites. They thought if they just went through the motions it would work for whoever had it. BTW: if nothing else, Indy's involvement saved Marion from being tortured to death.

[Der Trihs]

The Nazis at least may have assumed it was created by God and that God would be perfectly happy to help them. After all, they were the apex of humanity as far as they were concerned.

[Miller]

This. I love the movie. Just watched it last week for the millionth time. But it drives me crazy, too. If Indy and everybody really believed in the Ark, then why would they think for a second that the fucking Nazis would be able to wield its power? Wouldn't God be able to tell the difference between good and Hitler? And if Indy et al didn't believe the Ark was capable of being a direct line to God, then who gives a fuck? Let Hitler spend the time and money on digging aimlessly in the desert for years. I mean, if Indy just wanted it for the principle of the thing, that's fine, but that really wasn't what was feeding the urgency of the plot. At least The Last Crusade almost presented a credible threat, since presumably the Cup would work regardless of who wielded it--of course, the Holy Grail couldn't be removed, but at least Indy had the added motivation of rescuing his dad.

There's quite a few other possibilities between, "It doesn't exist/isn't magical," and "It's the instrument of Yahweh, God of the Hebrews," some of which have already been suggested. It could, for example, have been supernatural, but not actually linked to any Earthly religion: the ancient Hebrews simply assumed it was their God powering it, and there's no reason the Nazis couldn't have done the same thing. Or it could be supertech instead of supernatural, which amounts to about the same thing. (One roleplaying game I used to play suggested that the Ark was actually the engine salvaged from a crashed UFO) Or it could be that it is the Ark of the Covenenant, just as described in the Old Testament, but God has turned his back on the Jews and no longer cares what happens to them. Any of those possibilities equals bad fucking news for the Allies if the Germans get their hands on the Ark.

Indy himself, I am sure, didn't expect the Ark to have any actual supernatural powers, and was only going along because the Ark represented an unprecedented archaeological find. After all, he knows first hand from his adventure a few years earlier that it's the Hindus who have been right all along.

BTW: if nothing else, Indy's involvement saved Marion from being tortured to death.

Not necessarily. The Nazis found Marion by following Indy in the first place. If he hadn't intervened, her bar might not have been burned down.

[Justin_Bailey]

Indy himself, I am sure, didn't expect the Ark to have any actual supernatural powers, and was only going along because the Ark represented an unprecedented archaeological find. After all, he knows first hand from his adventure a few years earlier that it's the Hindus who have been right all along.

The only thing that Indy got a good look at in Temple of Doom was the stones becoming hot to the touch at the end. Everything else has a reasonable explanation or can be waved away as suggestion or effects of the drugging.

[Bryan Ekers]

This is the Ark of the Covenant. I'm a hardline atheist, but c'mon. No way no how do the Nazis (or anyone else) manage to circumvent the wrath of god with "better precautions." There is no defense against the direct wrath of god.

Well, except chariots of iron, apparently.

[Miller]

The only thing that Indy got a good look at in Temple of Doom was the stones becoming hot to the touch at the end. Everything else has a reasonable explanation or can be waved away as suggestion or effects of the drugging.

He also saw Molah Ramm pull someone's heart out with his bare hand, once from a distance, and once up close and personal when Ramm almost did it to Indy. Luckily for our guy, he didn't get more than a couple fingers into his chest. Indy also didn't merely witness the stones heating up, he directly caused it to heat by invoking a prayer to Shiva - and than caught one of the stones, bare handed, without harming himself, after watching it burn through a leather satchel.

[Grumman]

Well, except chariots of iron, apparently.
Smiting people is a lot easier when they don't bring their own lightning rod.

[Justin_Bailey]

He also saw Molah Ramm pull someone's heart out with his bare hand, once from a distance, and once up close and personal when Ramm almost did it to Indy. Luckily for our guy, he didn't get more than a couple fingers into his chest. Indy also didn't merely witness the stones heating up, he directly caused it to heat by invoking a prayer to Shiva - and than caught one of the stones, bare handed, without harming himself, after watching it burn through a leather satchel.

Indy had just swung on a ripped-in-half foot bridge and crashed into the side of a cliff. He probably had no idea what was happening (see also: the tank crash in Last Crusade).

As for Mola Ram's heart ripping, the first time he couldn't be sure what he saw and the second was little more than a kung fu grip on his chest. It would be easy enough, years later, to convince himself that nothing supernatural actually happened.