"Barred from classes" for wearing Steelers jersey

[Rilchiam]

Link. (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11015/1118246-66.stm)

I'unno. Perhaps they gave him a chance to avoid getting his ass kicked, and he took it. Being a Steelers fan, I won't say he would have deserved it, but it probably would have happened. And yes, Seattle fans should get over it already.

[Airman Doors, USAF]

It was a dick move by both the school and the kid. The kid (and his parents) knowingly allowed the rules to be broken, and the school set up a BS rule to begin with The only time something like limiting colors or team support is appropriate is when it's school colors for a school game.

But, as I said, the kid intentionally broke the rules, so he deserved it. That's the bottom line.

Oh, and Seattle needs to get over the butthurt. If I were in Seattle right now I'd be wearing my Super Bowl XL Roethlisberger jersey as often as possible just to drive the nails a little deeper. In that respect the kid, his parents and I are a lot alike.

[Giles]

I think there's a First Amendment problem there: the school is permitting "speech" only if it goes in the way the school approves.

[silenus]

Which, if the school can show set rules and potential disruption, is entirely legal and proper.

[Ace309]

I think there's a First Amendment problem there: the school is permitting "speech" only if it goes in the way the school approves.

I'm not sure what the first amendment issues are pertaining to dress codes and uniforms. Perhaps one of our legal types can add something.

[faithfool]

What type of name is "Grendon"?

[Giles]

Which, if the school can show set rules and potential disruption, is entirely legal and proper.
I think there are two problems with this:

(1) It was the school itself that set up the situation with potential disruption, by endorsing one sporting team knowing that some students will support other teams.

(2) The school is enforcing majority beliefs on a minority: exactly the sort of thing that the First Amendment is against.

Yes, it's not about politics or religion, but for many high-school students which team you support is more important than politics or religion.

[Contrapuntal]

(2) The school is enforcing majority beliefs on a minority: exactly the sort of thing that the First Amendment is against.What minority? Steelers fans? You are not serious, are you?

For that matter, where does it say that preventing the enforcing of majority beliefs on a minority is the point of the amendment?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

[Richard Parker]

It's a fairly routine First Amendment case. Dress codes are one thing (a constitutional gray area), but you don't get to have a dress code with exceptions for speech you like. As Tinker says:

[I]n our system, undifferentiated fear or apprehension of disturbance is not enough to overcome the right to freedom of expression. Any departure from absolute regimentation may cause trouble. Any variation from the majority's opinion may inspire fear. Any word spoken, in class, in the lunchroom, or on the campus, that deviates from the views of another person may start an argument or cause a disturbance. But our Constitution says we must take this risk; and our history says that it is this sort of hazardous freedom--this kind of openness--that is the basis of our national strength and of the independence and vigor of Americans who grow up and live in this relatively permissive, often disputatious, society.

Fortunately, the school was smart enough not to suspend the kid, and the kid didn't want to make a federal case out of a minor ordeal.

[Robot Arm]

Oh, and Seattle needs to get over the butthurt. If I were in Seattle right now I'd be wearing my Super Bowl XL Roethlisberger jersey as often as possible just to drive the nails a little deeper.Doesn't that mean that you need to get over it, too?

[BigT]

If wearing the shirt is considered disruptive, they can probably make him change it. It's a bullshit rule, but it is a convenient way of getting around the First Amendment, and, combined with the ability to search you for reasonable suspicion instead of probably cause, the reason why I was taught all my life that you give up your constitutional rights when you enter a public school building.

[bucketybuck]

Sometimes the SDMB needs taken out and laughed at for a while.

Some fat kid decides to do exactly what he was told not to do, the school disciplines him exactly as they said they would do, and on the SDMB they start to bleat about Amendments, constitutional issues and legal advice.

The kid didnt want to make a federal case? So he could if he wanted to? That in a nutshell shows how fucked up your country really is. Some nobody breaking a school dress code is a first amendment issue? Get over yourselves.

[Richard Parker]

Awww...does someone need a hug? Rough week at home?

[DKW]

[Not commenting about the exception for Seahawks apparel because it's not relevant to this case.]

If I were the kid's father, I'd be far more worried about his attitude than his sports loyalties. He's the worst kind of asshole, the kind who likes to piss off others for the sake of pissing off others. I tell you right now that if his parents don't start correcting this behavior, he's going to end up a worthless parasitic drain on society with no skills, no purpose in life, and absolutley no hope for ever improving. I've seen too many people go down this path.

(And before you say anything, yes, it's possible for a rebel to amount to something. But this rebellious spirit has to be channelled into something positive. A punk band can make memorable, driving music. A campus protestor can shine the spotlight on social injustices. A feminist leader can smash through a glass ceiling and open up career opportunities for young women. A complete asshole is never going to be anything but a complete asshole.)

That said, I can't help but think that the school shouldn't be protecting him. You're proud that your team benefitted from corruption and want to rub everyone's faces in it? Fine. Show your colors. Flaunt your unpenitent dickishness. Hopefully, getting beaten to a bloody pulp will teach you a few things about tact and restraint. Or it'll make you even more determined and you'll keep pulling this crap until you get killed. Either outcome is fine, really.

Airman Doors - Okay, I've always known you to be blunt but intelligent and thoughtful (not unlike me :) ), and I find your desire to "drive the nails in deeper"...puzzling. Are you saying that you're fine with grossly unfair results? If so, are you just as happy when your team gets gypped (I don't know any specific examples offhand, but they've been around a long time, there should be something)? Or that the Steelers are somehow entitled to Super Bowls (which is also why you do that "march to the Super Bowl" thread every season)? I'm afraid to even entertain other possibilities, honestly.

[Airman Doors, USAF]

Airman Doors - Okay, I've always known you to be blunt but intelligent and thoughtful (not unlike me :) ), and I find your desire to "drive the nails in deeper"...puzzling. Are you saying that you're fine with grossly unfair results? If so, are you just as happy when your team gets gypped (I don't know any specific examples offhand, but they've been around a long time, there should be something)? Or that the Steelers are somehow entitled to Super Bowls (which is also why you do that "march to the Super Bowl" thread every season)? I'm afraid to even entertain other possibilities, honestly.

I start the thread every year because I'm a Steelers fan, and talking smack is what sports fans do. It's always been that way, it will always be that way, and I am no different. Of course it's arrogant presumption tot title the thread like that, but if I'm going to talk trash all year I certainly have no right to demand that none of it comes my way. So I invite it with the title.

As for Super Bowl XL: I suppose the crying about that will never end, and in that respect you're no different. But "grossly unfair"? Here, I'll be charitable and say that some of the calls were bad. The only really egregiously bad call was the personal foul on Hasselbeck in my opinion, but it makes no difference what I think, the whining will still continue. The assertion that it was "grossly unfair" puts you squarely into Diogenes territory. It implies that the game was fixed and the refs fixed it, a favorite assertion of his.

Is that where you want to be right now? Otherwise, it's nothing more than incompetence, which is not at all the same thing.

And yes, I do like to drive it in deeper, because I am sick and tired of the never ending butthurt about it. If I have to listen to the incessant whining, you have to man up and take the response. Sorry if that bothers you.

[NDP]

Link. (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11015/1118246-66.stm)

I'unno. Perhaps they gave him a chance to avoid getting his ass kicked, and he took it. Being a Steelers fan, I won't say he would have deserved it, but it probably would have happened.

It was possible but I have my doubts. Sports fans in the Pacific Northwest aren't as intense as they are in other parts of the country. Also, we Seahawk fans don't have a long-standing rivalry with the Steelers (and I blame their loss in the 2006 Super Bowl on piss-poor officiating anyway).

Now if this kid went to Boston and showed up at a schoolyard wearing Yankee gear then we can talk about him inviting a beating.

[Robot Arm]

I start the thread every year because I'm a Steelers fan, and talking smack is what sports fans do.

...

And yes, I do like to drive it in deeper, because I am sick and tired of the never ending butthurt about it. If I have to listen to the incessant whining, you have to man up and take the response.If Seahawks fans have to listen to your incessant gloating, you have to man up and take the response.

[Airman Doors, USAF]

If Seahawks fans have to listen to your incessant gloating, you have to man up and take the response.

I do. And I respond in kind. Where's the trophy? Still stings, doesn't it?

[Rilchiam]

If I were the kid's father, I'd be far more worried about his attitude than his sports loyalties. He's the worst kind of asshole, the kind who likes to piss off others for the sake of pissing off others. I tell you right now that if his parents don't start correcting this behavior, he's going to end up a worthless parasitic drain on society with no skills, no purpose in life, and absolutley no hope for ever improving. I've seen too many people go down this path.

A thirteen-year-old boy who defies a school rule. That's a complete asshole? It used to be what you'd expect. Forget teams for a second: I think it's just good that not every kid has fallen to the wussification of America.

[pancakes3]

If I were the kid's father, I'd be far more worried about his attitude than his sports loyalties. He's the worst kind of asshole, the kind who likes to piss off others for the sake of pissing off others. I tell you right now that if his parents don't start correcting this behavior, he's going to end up a worthless parasitic drain on society with no skills, no purpose in life, and absolutley no hope for ever improving. I've seen too many people go down this path.

i agree with your logic but disagree with the target of your ire. sure, the kid has a streak of "asshole-just-for-the-sake-of-it" in him but the REAL incurable asshole is the princiPAL that thought "Seahawk-and-nothing-but-seahawk" day was a good idea. what kind of school administrator sends home a student because he's wearing black and gold when it should be... blue and grey-blue?

it would appear that the "worthless parasitic drain on society with no skills, no purpose in life, and absolutely no hope for ever improving" actually grew up to be a school administrator in seattle.

[Robot Arm]

I do. And I respond in kind.So for everyone else, "man up" means keeping quiet, but for you it means taunting people in return.

Do you have these rules written down someplace, so the rest of us can follow along?

[Airman Doors, USAF]

So for everyone else, "man up" means keeping quiet, but for you it means taunting people in return.

Do you have these rules written down someplace, so the rest of us can follow along?

No, I specifically said that I knew the crying wouldn't stop and there was nothing I could do to stop it, no matter how old and tired it gets. I consider that to be carte blanche to fire back in kind.

Now, if you're done crying, I'd like to let this thread get back to what it was about, which was not you, me, or Super Bowl XL (which Pittsburgh won). Thanks.

[Robot Arm]

Now, if you're done crying,...Crying? I haven't said a thing about the game in this thread, only about your behavior.

If there's one thing worse than a poor loser, it's a poor winner.

[eno801]

If I were the kid's father, I'd be far more worried about his attitude than his sports loyalties. He's the worst kind of asshole, the kind who likes to piss off others for the sake of pissing off others. I tell you right now that if his parents don't start correcting this behavior, he's going to end up a worthless parasitic drain on society with no skills, no purpose in life, and absolutley no hope for ever improving. I've seen too many people go down this path.

ahahahaha. are you for real:confused:

[DKW]

Airman Doors - You misunderstand (don't worry, I'm used to it by now :) ). I honestly couldn't care less about the NFL and haven't been passionate about sports at all for years. I used to be as passionate as you, but now I just can't. See, I know there are bad calls. I know there are dishonest results. Honest mistake or corruption, whichever, don't change the end result nuthin'. What I don't understand is the idea that this is all perfectly fine and nothing ever needs to be corrected.

I handle monetary accounts in my job. Some of them are decades old. Some of them have errors. Some of them are a matter of hundreds or even thousands of dollars, and a lot of them take a long time to find, several years in one instance. When someone finds an error and informs me of it, it is my duty to correct it. But it wasn't intentional, you say? Whoever made the mistake was only human? That's just how it is? Yes, and how it is for me is that either I make it right or I can start looking for another job. In fact, I've never even heard of any job outside of sports where screwing up and doing nothing to fix it is normal procedure.

It's not just football. I stopped caring about the Olympics ages ago, I've just about given up on the World Cup, and even baseball is hanging by a thread. As far as I'm concerned, no justice means no legitimacy, and an illegitimate sport carries no more prestige than a fantasy league.

Anyway. I understand trash talk, and if you want to do an annual thread, knock yourself out. I really don't understand what ironclad defiance is supposed to accomplish, however. They say it was rigged? Go with it. "Yeah, that's right, we got all the calls, 'cause the NFL loves us more than anyone else! We're just that important! Sucks to be you!" Never mind what the truth is (we're never going to know at this point), the point you need to get across is that if you're a fan, you take whatever crap you're given and like it.

As for that kid, the thing I don't like about him (other than the stuff I already mentioned) is that he's a bandwagon fan. I don't buy for a second that he's serious about this...c'mon, Franco Harris? He's just latching on to the most successful franchise, much like all those Yankees fans who've never been in New York or all those Kentucky Wildcats fans who mysterious pop up every time the subject of Duke comes up.

Rilchiam - Yes, that was the expectation. But it came with another implicit expectation: that he deserved whatever happened to him. To put it another way, if you put your balls on the table, you'd better be prepared for them to be stomped on. And again, I'd be just fine with that. He wants to show his colors that damn badly, he accepts whatever punishments, harrassment, and beatings he gets for it. Somehow, I think he'd change his tune pretty quickly.

eno801 - Quite. If he doesn't learn respect for rules and self-restraint in high school, then when? I know of no livelihood that permits you to do whatever you damn want and not give the slightest thought to anyone else. If you know of one, I'd like to hear it.

[Robot Arm]

I handle monetary accounts in my job. Some of them are decades old. Some of them have errors. Some of them are a matter of hundreds or even thousands of dollars, and a lot of them take a long time to find, several years in one instance. When someone finds an error and informs me of it, it is my duty to correct it. But it wasn't intentional, you say? Whoever made the mistake was only human? That's just how it is? Yes, and how it is for me is that either I make it right or I can start looking for another job. In fact, I've never even heard of any job outside of sports where screwing up and doing nothing to fix it is normal procedure.Sports doesn't lend itself to hindsight the way banking does. If the refs miss a call in the first quarter and admit it the next day, there's not really any fair way to fix it. Coaches and players make decisions based on the situation. Change one play and all the plays that follow it will happen differently. Suppose one team has a touchdown unfairly disallowed, and the other team kneels down on the last play to win by five points; you can't then allow the touchdown and give the win to the other team.

But sports fans remember the history. Armando Gallarago could have been just another perfect game, instead he'll be remembered as the guy who earned one but didn't get it. There have been lots of Super Bowl winners, but as far as I know only one team ever got an apology from the ref. Toss out the record book; narratives like that are what people remember about sports.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

As for that kid, the thing I don't like about him (other than the stuff I already mentioned) is that he's a bandwagon fan. I don't buy for a second that he's serious about this...c'mon, Franco Harris? He's just latching on to the most successful franchise, much like all those Yankees fans who've never been in New York or all those Kentucky Wildcats fans who mysterious pop up every time the subject of Duke comes up.



Most Steeler fans are bandwagon fans, although they love to sling that accusation around at fans of other NFL franchises. Like you said...its easy to root for a winner.

And I'm wearing my UK cap right now, and thanks for reminding me about Christian Laettner! I thought I was over it, but no!

:)

[Barkis is Willin']

Sports doesn't lend itself to hindsight the way banking does. If the refs miss a call in the first quarter and admit it the next day, there's not really any fair way to fix it. Coaches and players make decisions based on the situation. Change one play and all the plays that follow it will happen differently. Suppose one team has a touchdown unfairly disallowed, and the other team kneels down on the last play to win by five points; you can't then allow the touchdown and give the win to the other team.


The only time I can think of where a blown call led to a replay of the game at a later date was the George Brett pine tar incident. Does the NFL have a similar protest rule that could even allow such a thing?

[Morgenstern]

Dumb rule, dumb kid. What if he'd worn a red, white and blue USA Olympic jersey?

[Scumpup]

What type of name is "Grendon"?

It's pronounced "Grundon."