What Would You Do In This Roommate Situation?

[Alice The Goon]

So a week and a half ago, my 12 year-old son and I moved into a house with another single mom and her son, as a "shared housing"-type arrangement. I have since learned that she is somewhat flaky and, I don't want to say crazy, but... I guess that remains to be seen.

Anyway, in between the time we met and agreed on the housing arrangement and the time we moved in, she went to the pound and got a new dog. This dog, a smallish lab mix, is very out of control and untrained. She is fucking crazy, no doubt about it. One of the problems she has is that if she gets out of the house, she runs and runs. Today was the fourth time in the last 10 days that we've lived here that she got out and I had to chase her down. Yesterday she got out (not my fault, thank Og!) and ran out onto a busy main road and caused an accident. This is nuts and I hate it.

I keep telling this woman that the dog HAS to get trained- that she can't live like this, and we can't live like this. It may sound like an over-reaction, but I am willing to call this whole thing off if this dog is going to stay untrained. She finally did put up a baby gate, so the dog can't come into our side of the house and harass my cats, but whenever she's not here, the dog sits by the gate and barks and whines at us. Especially late at night when we're trying to sleep. It also chews everything in sight, jumps up on you whenever you're near, and various other destructive and annoying things.

No, I am not going to train the dog myself, or pay to have it trained professionally. I will not take on this dog as my responsibility, but I would like to "encourage" my roomie to do so, since it is, you know, her dog. I do know that I am not willing to live like this. I don't want to come across to her as a bitch, or overly demanding, yet my emotions are running pretty high about this.

What would you do or say if you were me?

[Leaffan]

Leave the door open.

[Alice The Goon]

Leave the door open.


Um, let's see... no. The other woman is 6'1. I'm not ready for my beatdown. :p

[jjimm]

Jesus.

Move out.

[Asimovian]

I'd be more worried about how easy it would be to extract yourself from the situation, and less worried about the impression doing so would leave. If you decided you didn't want to deal with it, how hard would it be for you to find another place? What kind of lease are you under?

As for the decision to move, I think you definitely need to give some kind of ultimatum before you walk out, but I don't think you'd be unreasonable to do so. If I couldn't keep my possessions safe, I couldn't get a sound night's sleep, and I had to deal with chasing after a runaway, all because of this one pet, I'd definitely want the problem fixed, or I'd try to get out. It sounds like the dog has already been made more of your responsibility than she should be.

[Alice The Goon]

While moving out is definitely a possibility, I'd like to leave it as a last resort. My body is just barely recovered from moving in- moving sucks hard. I haven't signed any kind of lease with her, fortunately, so it is still an option. I'm really just wondering how to approach this with her so that she takes it seriously but doesn't see me as being bitchy or unreasonable. We're still in the "being overly nice" stage, as we just started this and don't know each other very well.

[Asimovian]

While moving out is definitely a possibility, I'd like to leave it as a last resort. My body is just barely recovered from moving in- moving sucks hard. I haven't signed any kind of lease with her, fortunately, so it is still an option. I'm really just wondering how to approach this with her so that she takes it seriously but doesn't see me as being bitchy or unreasonable. We're still in the "being overly nice" stage, as we just started this and don't know each other very well.If the woman is crazy (and she just might be), you aren't going to be able to avoid her thinking you're being unreasonable. I'm not saying you shouldn't try, but there's only so far you may be able to get with that.

You say you've told her the dog needs to be trained, etc., but you haven't said what her reaction to that has been. Has she said she'll do it, but she just hasn't followed through? Has she been completely noncommittal? Does she respond at all? And are these face-to-face conversations, or are you guys trading notes? How oblivious is she to the way this dog is impacting your life?

[Alice The Goon]

I have talked to her about it numerous times, and I have gone to the library and brought her home DVDs on dog training, recommended books and websites, and obedience classes. She seems to agree that it's what is needed, but doesn't follow through. She claims to have fibromyalgia, and uses that as a reason that she can't do things- but she doesn't seem to have any problems going shopping, going out to eat, dating, etc. It's really only work-type things that she can't do. I can tell her all I want, but I can't make her actually do anything.

[ugly ripe tomato]

That ain't no dog, that's the 4-legged version of the Mayhem guy from the Allstate commercials!

Honestly, I don't think it's bitchy or demanding to make an ultimatum that either SHE gets the dog trained ASAP or the deal's off.

The dog has already caused one accident (can someone sue the owner of a dog that causes an accident? I'm sure some people would try) and I don't feel that confident that a baby gate will stop the dog for long. Some of those things are pretty rickety and a decent-sized dog could probably knock it over or just jump right over it.

[MsWhatsit]

Oof.

I think I'd go the ultimatum route, in that case. "Either start training the dog, or get rid of the dog, by X date, or I'm finding a new place to live."

Getting a new dog without asking the other tenant, after the housing agreement was already worked out, was already kind of a douchey move, and then letting the dog run all over the place and jump on people and yap constantly is just...really not OK. I'm sure I don't have to tell you this. Hopefully she sees reason and does something about the dog's behavior, and if not, I think you should probably start marshaling your energy for another move, as much as that sucks.

[Alice The Goon]

Okay, the "do this by x-date or we'll seek other arrangements" sounds like a good idea. The big difference in our thinking about this seems to be that I find it unreasonable to expect the dog to never get out (it happens) and she seems to think that if the dog does get out, it's the fault of whoever left the door or gate open. I'd much prefer the dog to be able to follow commands so that if she does get out, she doesn't run like hell. She's one of those mothers that, if their child is doing something wrong, just whines at them, like "Oh, no, little Jimmy, don't do that...", where I am more the type to train them not to do that in the first place.

[ugly ripe tomato]

(snip) She's one of those mothers that, if their child is doing something wrong, just whines at them, like "Oh, no, little Jimmy, don't do that...", where I am more the type to train them not to do that in the first place.

Ohhh, lawdy, then she'll probably end up being one of those dog owners who just drones "Fido? Stop. Stop it, Fido, don't do that. Stop." (repeat ad infinitum) as Fido is yapping its head off/ already six blocks down the street and accellerating/ mauling someone else's shoe/book/small animal.

[Alice The Goon]

Ohhh, lawdy, then she'll probably end up being one of those dog owners who just drones "Fido? Stop. Stop it, Fido, don't do that. Stop." (repeat ad infinitum) as Fido is yapping its head off/ already six blocks down the street and accellerating/ mauling someone else's shoe/book/small animal.


She is exactly like this.

[Moonlitherial]

Ultimatum is the only way to go and unfortunately you're going to have to follow through because she won't train or get rid of the dog.

The only other option is one you ruled out in the OP - training the dog yourself.

[Asimovian]

"Dear <crazy lady's name>,

The situation with your new pet has continued to cause a lot of stress for me, my son and our pets. Additionally, the dog is also causing mayhem in the neighborhood. Right now, I don't see any signs at all of the situation improving since the dog is neither being trained nor otherwise kept from wreaking havoc in our lives.

It is my hope that you're able to take the steps necessary to get the dog trained so that we can all enjoy our home together. However, unless things change dramatically for the better by <insert date -- I don't think you'd want it to be later than the end of this month>, I'll be seeking to live elsewhere."

[TriPolar]

You have to leave. Watch Judge Judy, there's a case like this every week, and it never turns out well for either party.

[ugly ripe tomato]

"Dear <crazy lady's name>,

The situation with your new pet has continued to cause a lot of stress for me, my son and our pets. Additionally, the dog is also causing mayhem in the neighborhood. Right now, I don't see any signs at all of the situation improving since the dog is neither being trained nor otherwise kept from wreaking havoc in our lives.

It is my hope that you're able to take the steps necessary to get the dog trained so that we can all enjoy our home together. However, unless things change dramatically for the better by <insert date -- I don't think you'd want it to be later than the end of this month>, I'll be seeking to live elsewhere."

well said, but I would also make it 100% clear that you are NOT going to train the dog for her in case she might be thinking that since you have found books, DVDs and whatnot, you'll eventually start working on Psychodog just to save your own sanity.

Although I don't see it ending well in any case, because even if the dog gets some kind of training I don't see her as the type to keep up with the routine and discipline needed to keep an energetic dog under control.

[BoBettie]

Honestly it's probably a self correcting problem. The dog is bound to run away/get hit in traffic at this rate. Very sad. It isn't rocket science to teach a dog the recall command. If she is too lazy/ill/whatever to do even that, there is seriously no hope of teaching him not to bark/whine/chew. You should really just start looking elsewhere. As for what to say, a simple "I didn't know that an untrained dog would be part of our living arrangement and I don't find it acceptable any longer. I'm sorry it didn't work out. Good luck with your next roommate."

[Joey P]

well said, but I would also make it 100% clear that you are NOT going to train the dog for her in case she might be thinking that since you have found books, DVDs and whatnot, you'll eventually start working on Psychodog just to save your own sanity.
I wouldn't even bring that up. IME, saying you're not going to do something is the first step towards doing it. "Fine, I'll teach the dog to sit, but after that, you have to take over......" And if it turns out that roomie is the manipulative type she'll be well aware of this.

[Alice The Goon]

It's disheartening to see so many people saying to move out. I'm the type to want to fix things instead of giving up. However, I do know that I can't fix this on my own, and I can't force her to fix it, either.

Goddamn, moving sucks! :mad:

[lindsaybluth]

Yeah, Alice, GTFO immediately. Good luck finding a new place w/ your son. Keep us posted.

[Asimovian]

It's disheartening to see so many people saying to move out. I'm the type to want to fix things instead of giving up. However, I do know that I can't fix this on my own, and I can't force her to fix it, either.

Goddamn, moving sucks! :mad:I moved over New Year's weekend myself, and I get to do it again in six months. You have my sympathy and empathy. And, frankly, I still hope it doesn't come down to that for you. It's just that nothing you've said has left me with the impression that this woman is going to have an epiphany and get her act together in time for your sanity.

Still, give the ultimatum a try and see what happens.

[Barkis is Willin']

Is her son roughly your son's age or older? Is training the dog something the boys could attempt? When I was about 12 I had a lot of fun learning to train my dog to sit, stay, fetch, etc. Maybe the dog training could be a project for the boys instead of relying on crazy housemate mom.

[Asimovian]

Is her son roughly your son's age or older? Is training the dog something the boys could attempt? When I was about 12 I had a lot of fun learning to train my dog to sit, stay, fetch, etc. Maybe the dog training could be a project for the boys instead of relying on crazy housemate mom.That strikes me as being a suggestion in a really good spirit. The problem, I think, is that if her son takes on that responsibility, then she becomes, by proxy, responsible for the dog. And that's the one thing I think she needs (and wants, I think) to avoid at all costs. The dog has already been made her problem against her will. Agreeing to be part of the training (even through her son) is like saying that it's OK for the roomy to force these things on her.

[Joey P]

It's disheartening to see so many people saying to move out. I'm the type to want to fix things instead of giving up. However, I do know that I can't fix this on my own, and I can't force her to fix it, either.

Goddamn, moving sucks! :mad:

How isolated are the two sides of the house? For example, you mentioned that there is a gate to keep the dog on their side, but then mention the dog is chewing everything. Is the dog just chewing up their stuff?

Some suggestions...Perhaps you could put up a curtain over the doorway so at night the dog can't see you and therefore won't bark and cry.

When they are gone maybe they could keep it locked in their bedroom so you don't have to keep an eye on it.

Do you have to interact with this dog at all? Is it possible to keep the house separated enough that you can get in and out without having to come in contact with the dog (or more importantly risk losing)?

I'm just thinking that if you can't get her to train the dog, maybe you can get her to keep it contained to one part of the house so at the very least it's not your problem. Is that a possibility?

Are the two of you renting from someone? Is there a landlord involved?

[Alice The Goon]

Is her son roughly your son's age or older? Is training the dog something the boys could attempt? When I was about 12 I had a lot of fun learning to train my dog to sit, stay, fetch, etc. Maybe the dog training could be a project for the boys instead of relying on crazy housemate mom.


Her son is 9, and is only here from Monday after school to Friday before school. Plus they both have after-school activities and homework that keep them pretty busy until dinnertime and then shortly thereafter it's bedtime. Good idea, but I don't know that either of them have the time and/or aptitude to take on such a project.

I'm really, at this point, considering training the fucking thing myself- as bad as it sounds, it's got to be better than moving again so soon. How hard could it be, right?

[Yarster]

I'm curious to hear more about the accident, as I could see that being an issue as well. Assuming this is a car accident, and assuming the owner went after your roommate for it, I presume she is now on the hook for possibly several thousand dollars. My guess is, she doesn't have that, which may suddenly have all kinds of other "can you pay my half of the rent this month, and I'll totally pay you back at some point in the future (but never will)" implications.

And should you or your son be the unfortunate ones to let the dog escape next time, are you on the hook for the damage the dog causes? On the one hand, I'd assume so because you were responsible for letting the dog out, but on the other, the fact she refuses to train the dog at least partially results in whatever damages are caused. You might want to discuss that as part of your "train your dog, or else" discussion. Even in a perfect world where your roommate does finally watch your DVDs and takes an active role in training the dog, you have to expect that training to take a while. In the intervening months, I think you can expect the dog to get out, possibly due to you or your son, and I'd like to know exactly what happens if the dog causes another accident, attacks a dog or person causing vet/human medical bills, and/or gets injured itself causing additional huge vet bills. And what discussion have you had regarding if/when the dog destroys your furniture, your clothes, your food, etc. in a common area?

[Joey P]

I'm really, at this point, considering training the fucking thing myself- as bad as it sounds, it's got to be better than moving again so soon. How hard could it be, right?

NO! ::Smacks Alice with newspaper:: No, we don't do that.

[Alice The Goon]

How isolated are the two sides of the house? For example, you mentioned that there is a gate to keep the dog on their side, but then mention the dog is chewing everything. Is the dog just chewing up their stuff?

Some suggestions...Perhaps you could put up a curtain over the doorway so at night the dog can't see you and therefore won't bark and cry.

When they are gone maybe they could keep it locked in their bedroom so you don't have to keep an eye on it.

Do you have to interact with this dog at all? Is it possible to keep the house separated enough that you can get in and out without having to come in contact with the dog (or more importantly risk losing)?

I'm just thinking that if you can't get her to train the dog, maybe you can get her to keep it contained to one part of the house so at the very least it's not your problem. Is that a possibility?

Are the two of you renting from someone? Is there a landlord involved?


We do share the kitchen, dining room, (both of which are on her side) and backyard, so it's not possible to entirely isolate ourselves or all of our things. The dog also has a problem with peeing and shitting on the floor, so I don't want to lock it up in one room- it does have a crate, but that doesn't eliminate the barking and whining. There is a landlord (hell, yes, I'd never move into someone else's house that they owned) but I'm not really involved with him and don't really want to be.

[Joey P]

OTOH, if she'd be willing to pay you, it'd be different. For the class and your time.

[Joey P]

Is this a puppy?

[Alice The Goon]

Is this a puppy?


It's about a year old.

[Alice The Goon]

I'm curious to hear more about the accident, as I could see that being an issue as well. Assuming this is a car accident, and assuming the owner went after your roommate for it, I presume she is now on the hook for possibly several thousand dollars. My guess is, she doesn't have that, which may suddenly have all kinds of other "can you pay my half of the rent this month, and I'll totally pay you back at some point in the future (but never will)" implications.

And should you or your son be the unfortunate ones to let the dog escape next time, are you on the hook for the damage the dog causes? On the one hand, I'd assume so because you were responsible for letting the dog out, but on the other, the fact she refuses to train the dog at least partially results in whatever damages are caused. You might want to discuss that as part of your "train your dog, or else" discussion. Even in a perfect world where your roommate does finally watch your DVDs and takes an active role in training the dog, you have to expect that training to take a while. In the intervening months, I think you can expect the dog to get out, possibly due to you or your son, and I'd like to know exactly what happens if the dog causes another accident, attacks a dog or person causing vet/human medical bills, and/or gets injured itself causing additional huge vet bills. And what discussion have you had regarding if/when the dog destroys your furniture, your clothes, your food, etc. in a common area?


Ah, yes, good points. I don't see myself as responsible for the dog getting out- I see her as responsible for training the dog how to act if it does get out. However, she seems to think the opposite- that's it's on whoever "let" the dog get out. As for the accident, it was a rear-ending, which I see as being a result of following too closely. If you can't stop in an emergency without getting rear-ended, then the person behind you was too close. I believe that's how the law sees it as well. My roommate did not stop to talk to the people involved- after the dog was caught, she just went on home with it.

[Joey P]

And I had this whole big 'it's a puppy, wait it out' post written. Nevermind.

[Barkis is Willin']

I've had a decent amount of experience training dogs using different methods. Dogs' attention spans are even shorter than a 12 year old boy's, so it's usually actually a pretty convenient little project. You only need to spend about 10-15min. at a time training if you know what you're doing.

I totally get your situation. You just moved in to this place and, like you said, moving out is a last resort. But the fact is, the owner will not train the dog or else will be very ineffective. She will also most likely not get rid of the dog. Therefore, you either need to issue the ultimatum (which may be uncomfortable) or find another way to train this dog, be it yourself or the kids. Or, just deal with it.

[Weedy]

If you train the dog, it will effectively become your dog, since you will be its pack leader as far as it is concerned. Maybe not what you or your roommate want.

If it were me, I would move.

[TruCelt]

I went through this with a roommate. Her two dogs were completely untrained, and the border collie(BC) was a nipper. She could not be reasoned with. Or rather, she would agree with everything verbally, then fail to act.

The last straw was when the border collie attacked another dog, a toy poodle belonging to a dear mutual friend.(DMF) I stopped the fight, at great personal risk, while she stood there in a daze looking on. Then she took the BC back in the house, and stood there with the door cracked open talking to me and DMF. BC slipped through her legs and attacked the toy AGAIN, and again she stood there in a daze and did nothing while I saved the little dogs life. This time, I had the added fun of protecting BC as she came at her with a walking stick threatening to "beat the life out of her."

Out of sheer desperation I had achieved a certain level of training with her dogs, (i.e. they only peed/pooped in the hosue when she was home) but she never reliably followed the simple guidelines I gave her for maintaining their training.

About four months after I moved out I went back to visit for the afternoon. The mutt had compeltely chewed up her sofa. I mean compeltely. The entire arm of it was down to the plywood, and the cushions had been compeltely gutted.

People like this do not apply responsible consistent action to anything in their lives. This defect will apply to many situations, from paying bills on time to keeping the kitchen clean. They will do things in dramatic binges, then expect to be free of that (or any) chore for days or weeks while they recover from the greatness of their effort. They seem to require a level of panic to get them moving and this results in a constant stream of drama for those around them.

Rest, recover, observe. My prediction is that you will find you don't want your child in this environment.

I dearly hope I will turn out to be wrong about this.

[Joey P]

Ah, yes, good points. I don't see myself as responsible for the dog getting out- I see her as responsible for training the dog how to act if it does get out. However, she seems to think the opposite- that's it's on whoever "let" the dog get out. As for the accident, it was a rear-ending, which I see as being a result of following too closely. If you can't stop in an emergency without getting rear-ended, then the person behind you was too close. I believe that's how the law sees it as well. My roommate did not stop to talk to the people involved- after the dog was caught, she just went on home with it.

"It's YOUR dog that you REFUSE to train, that you got with out asking my permission. I do my damnedest every time I come in or out of this house, but if it slips past me, I'm not going to be responsible for any damage it causes."


Is your house set up in such a way that you could set up either a baby gate or a gate such as this (http://www.aosom.com/ebay/pic/5663-0830/1.jpg) around the door? The linked one works nicely. I've used it in the past at my house. It comes apart so you can make it into any shape you want and anchor it to the walls (or just have it balancing) around the door. You and yours just step over, the dog stays on the other side. At least then your not fighting to get in and out and you can get your shoes on and off without the dog jumping all over you.

[TruCelt]

I mean, completely missed the edit window. :smack:

[ZipperJJ]

Can't you call the pound and report her for neglecting the animal? If she won't take the time to housetrain it and won't take the time/steps to make sure he doesn't get out, she's harming the dog. The pound will not be happy.

[purplehorseshoe]

... There is a landlord (hell, yes, I'd never move into someone else's house that they owned) but I'm not really involved with him and don't really want to be.

Yeah, and you don't want to take on the training yourself, either. I highly doubt your roommate will be an effective dog parent. It may be time to let the landlord know there's a chewing, shitting dog in the house and let HIM tackle the problem.

You really really really need a lease. How come you moved in without one? Is it too late to have the landlord draw one up now?

[Alice The Goon]

You really really really need a lease. How come you moved in without one? Is it too late to have the landlord draw one up now?


It's one more thing that she's "going to do" but hasn't followed up on. I'm going to follow up on this myself, though, with the landlord- once I decide that I'm definitely not going to have to move out over this dog issue.

[Asimovian]

It's one more thing that she's "going to do" but hasn't followed up on. I'm going to follow up on this myself, though, with the landlord- once I decide that I'm definitely not going to have to move out over this dog issue.Does either of you have more of an "in" with the landlord than the other?

[Alice The Goon]

Does either of you have more of an "in" with the landlord than the other?



I suppose that she does, considering that I'm not on the lease yet. However, I do have proof that I'm living here, i.e. emails referring to our agreement (hers and mine) and mail with this address, and in this state, that's pretty much as good as being on the lease.

[Yarster]

I will admit that I am suspicious of anyone who claims 'fibromyalgia' as this always seems to be a precursor to that person then behaving in some anti-social, non-logical, or lazy way as Alice the Goon describes that has nothing to do with pain issues. I think this roommate is going to be a long term problem beyond just the dog. I'd bet an inability to pay bills comes next.

That said, I am not one to abandon hope and tell you to move as I realize what a colossal pain that is, and doubly so if you are a single mom with limited income. The best thing you can do is sit down with the roommate in a calm setting (i.e. without the kids running around distracting both of you) and address your concerns. If at all possible, get the landlord involved. With any luck, he/she can be the 'bad guy' and either require removal of the dog, issue the training ultimatum for you, or at the very least, absolve you of the damage the dog will do to the carpet, curtains, etc. since that shouldn't have to come out of your half of the deposit.

Unfortunately, I think TruCelt hit the nail on the head. Whether you or the landlord issues the ultimatum, I think it will be met with initial inaction, followed by a wild overkill attempt to train the dog as the deadline is nearly upon her, followed by an attempt to get acknowledgment from you or the landlord that "she tried" and a request that the deadline be extended since the "dog needs more time to be trained". Wash, rinse, repeat... What I would ask myself is, "can I live with the fact this women will likely never train her dog". Assume that means anything of value that is yours will have to be in your area walled off from the dog, or that the roommate agrees to pay for damage the dog causes otherwise. I would also make sure she is at least o.k. with you disciplining the dog when you catch it doing bad things even if she will not. Some people get very touchy about this and think it's somehow 'cute' when the dog goes counter-surfing and steals food left unattended. I'd swat a dog that did that. That way it would at least learn it should avoid me and my food when I'm eating even if it acts crazy around her.

[Alice The Goon]

It does seem funny how she can stay up late, go shopping, to the movies, and out to lunch, and run around town all she wants- yet she can't work. IANAD, so I can't say she's faking, but... :dubious:

[rhubarbarin]

I would let her know I'd be vacating ASAP unless she got rid of the damn dog (which was not agreed upon after all) ASAP. Sorry.

Long-time dog owners put a lot of effort into training young, wild dogs like this, and still don't have complete success. I had a young dog for a couple years who would bolt out the door at any opportunity and run in a straight line down the sidewalk (and across streets) as far as he could - but never when I was the one going in and out the door, as I had him somewhat trained to respect me and was careful, only when one of the four other people in the house did (argh!). Regardless I had to chase him, because he was mine and I didn't want him to get hit. Miraculously he never was. He's my friend's dog now, and at the ripe age of 8 with much work from her and her family, has finally stopped doing this entirely, and usually comes when he is called. He is a Pekingese after all, they are notorious for being difficult to train.

Doesn't sound like this women is going to put forward any effort. And even if you bust your ass with this dog, there's no guarantee s/he is going to improve much anyway. From the sound of things, the first and most important thing is to wear this dog out with a couple hours every day of hard exercise. Even if you were willing, do you have the time and capability for that?

[TruCelt]

The good news is it's a lab, so if you can hang in there for three years or so, it will become too lazy to run. LOL!

[Alice The Goon]

She got out again today- my fault for not knowing that there was one gate to the backyard that she could apparently push open and follow me out to the mailbox. Shit!

But, by now I know that if you chase her, she will run. And run. And run. So what I did was just crouch down a few feet away from her and talk to her very nicely and softly. She didn't run, she stayed around. After a few minutes of this, she laid down in a complete submission pose, and I went over and picked her up and carried her home. So, yay me and the dog! Maybe we're both learning!:D

[TruCelt]

You might even try running away from her - she'll likely chase you. But your soft and quiet version is really better, as there's less chance of her veering off into the street.

Is she getting any exercise at all? anybody walking her, or throwing a ball for her?

[Alice The Goon]

You might even try running away from her - she'll likely chase you. But your soft and quiet version is really better, as there's less chance of her veering off into the street.

Is she getting any exercise at all? anybody walking her, or throwing a ball for her?


Only me. I feel so sorry for her being all energetic with no place to go, that I do go out to the backyard and throw stuff and play her favorite game, tug of war with her. I've decided to start walking her in the evenings as well- might as well, we both need the exercise and I need to get out of the house and that will help my frustration with the roommate. So it works out. But I will NOT train her! Or get attached to her! :p

[Joey P]

She got out again today- my fault for not knowing that there was one gate to the backyard that she could apparently push open and follow me out to the mailbox. Shit!

But, by now I know that if you chase her, she will run. And run. And run. So what I did was just crouch down a few feet away from her and talk to her very nicely and softly. She didn't run, she stayed around. After a few minutes of this, she laid down in a complete submission pose, and I went over and picked her up and carried her home. So, yay me and the dog! Maybe we're both learning!:D

Until she trains her or you move out I have a quick suggestion. You (secretly) pick up some liver treats (and keep them hidden from dog and roommate) and when no one is around over the next week or so you train the dog to respond to the word 'treat'. It's probably the easiest "trick" you can teach a dog. This way, if and when the dog does get out, yelling "treat" will have her running back to you. For any one of a number of reasons I wouldn't let on that you taught her this trick or that you have the treats, but just get her responding to the word and once she does, maybe do it once or twice a week just to make sure she remembers it. It'll probably come in handy someday when she slips past you and heads for an intersection.
Also, make sure you keep those treats somewhere that the dog can't access them, like on the top shelf of a closet with a closed door.

[Joey P]

I've decided to start walking her in the evenings as well- might as well, we both need the exercise and I need to get out of the house and that will help my frustration with the roommate.

Be careful with that though. The exercise is likely to get her to stop chewing on everything in the house. If you find that you don't have the time to take her out anymore roomie is likely to put the blame on you when she starts up again. I know, I know, it's not your fault. But if she's an external locus of control/ drama queen type person, it really won't matter.

[Cat Whisperer]

This is all after you've been there a week and a half? I'm sorry to say this, too, but as you mentioned, you're still in the nice to each other honeymoon phase - it gets WORSE from here after the polite gloves come off. I have a mental picture of the kind of person who doesn't work because of fibromyalgia but can do everything else that she wants to do and gets a dog without consulting her new housemate, and it isn't a pretty one - she sounds like a taker and a user, and if you let her, she'll take from you and use you.

Barring moving out and moving in with a roommate who isn't a piece of crap, maybe you could take the dog to the pound and tell your roommate it ran away.

[Alice The Goon]

I know she is obviously not an ideal roommate. However, I would like to try to make this work if possible, because really, the upside of the situation is worth the downsides. It's a very nice house, in a very nice neighborhood- I would never be able to afford something like this on my own, and, having moved here from a shitbox duplex in a shithole neighborhood, it's worth it to me to have to deal with her. Trust me, it's worth it to me right now to make this work. I'm feeling much more optimistic than I was earlier about the dog, since our lovefest.

[Cat Whisperer]

You know, if I was committed to staying there, I'd probably train the dog myself, too, because sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do. Go nuts - train the hell out of that dog. :)

[alice_in_wonderland]

Ugh - your roommate sounds like an asshole.

I think if you really want to stay because you love the house, the only option is going to be to hijack the dog and train the shit out of it. Have your son participate as well. Basically, hijack the dog. Now, I assume you didn't want a dog, but from the sounds of it you get to live in a great house in a great neighbourhood with one condition - you get a new dog.

Regarding the fibromyalgia deal - I'm under the impression that stress exacerbates the condition. Obviously, shopping, hanging with friends, getting your nails done, etc. is much less stressful than work. I assume she's on disability? If so, I wouldn't even worry about it - she probably has a whole group of former coworkers who were delighted to see the back of her.

[needscoffee]

I can just picture you training the dog to where it's a nice, good dog to have around, and then she goes and gets another one because they're so easy to take care of!

[Kolga]

I will admit that I am suspicious of anyone who claims 'fibromyalgia' as this always seems to be a precursor to that person then behaving in some anti-social, non-logical, or lazy way as Alice the Goon describes that has nothing to do with pain issues

It does seem funny how she can stay up late, go shopping, to the movies, and out to lunch, and run around town all she wants- yet she can't work. IANAD, so I can't say she's faking, but... :dubious:

I feel like I'm kind of an asshole in my beliefs about fibromyalgia, because unfortunately, it's been my experience that a very large percentage of people with whom I've worked clinically who've been diagnosed with personality disorders also have carried or claimed a concurrent diagnosis of fibromyalgia. Which conveniently flared up when they were hitting a "crisis" point in their treatment, such as having to get an independent living situation rather than a group home/institutional living situation. Most of whom could not furnish an actual medical verification of their diagnosis.

Now, I am certainly not claiming that fibromyalgia doesn't exist. Or that people who have it are liars or faking. I have no experience with the probably many thousands or millions of people with fibromyalgia who are not concurrently diagnosed with a personality disorder. And I'm well aware that my experiences are my own, likely to lead to bias, and are not a rational consideration of the illness.

But I honestly cannot think of a person that I've known who states that they have a diagnosis of fibromyalgia who is also not suffering psychologically with other disorders.

Make of that what you will, Alice. But given your interactions with her so far, I personally would be leery of thinking that this could work out.

On the other hand, I have often said that I would rather sleep in a ditch than move, so I can sympathize with the allure of not having to move again so soon.

[ecseas]

It does seem funny how she can stay up late, go shopping, to the movies, and out to lunch, and run around town all she wants- yet she can't work. IANAD, so I can't say she's faking, but... :dubious:



She may be faking, but next time you accuse someone of faking something , try not to mention a actual symptom of the disease. sleeping problems are very common among sufferers.

@Kolga

I know three people who have it who don't have any psychological problems at all. My grandmother, who has it is actually the hardest working, person I know. She's constantly in pain but she'd do anything for anyone, and doesn't let it get to her.

[LurkerInNJ]

She claims to have fibromyalgia, and uses that as a reason that she can't do things- but she doesn't seem to have any problems going shopping, going out to eat, dating, etc. It's really only work-type things that she can't do.

Not for nothing, but every single person I have ever met who claims to have fibromyalgia also has mental health issues and is able to everything except work and activities they don't want to do.

[Alice The Goon]

She was denied for short-term disability through her work, and I believe it's because she had investigators watching her run around doing all these things. I'm definitely not saying she's faking, or that fibro is not real. But I have worked for rheumatologists that don't even think it's real, so that possibly colors my opinion of it.

As for the dog, I think alice in wonderland may be correct. I am going to have to look at this as a trade-off. I train the dog, and therefore I have a new dog, and I get to live in this nice house in this nice neighborhood. I am going to become... [Spanish accent]the dog whisperer[/Spanish accent].... I'd rather be positive and happy than negative and unhappy, anyway.

[Merneith]

On the upside, training the dog is probably faster than training the roommate.

It sounds like the boys are old enough to walk her on a leash, once they all get used to it. A good long walk every day would help her lot, I think.

[Dogzilla]

I would take the dog to a no-kill shelter or breed rescue group and then tell the roommates that it got out and I couldn't find it. My concern is actually for the dog's quality of life and people who adopt dogs with no thought of training it to live with humans don't deserve to have pets. You have to teach a dog how you want it to act. If you have no plans to make that kind of commitment, then it's in the dog's best interests to find another home where the people will care for it properly.

That and you have to think of living with an untrained beast who will jump on your guests, shred your stuff, poop and pee where it shouldn't. Nobody wants to live like that, least of all the dog.

Sounds like the housemate is too flaky to be reasoned with or dealt with in a mature adult manner, so I'd go with sneaky passive aggression.

[Alice The Goon]

I would take the dog to a no-kill shelter or breed rescue group and then tell the roommates that it got out and I couldn't find it. My concern is actually for the dog's quality of life and people who adopt dogs with no thought of training it to live with humans don't deserve to have pets. You have to teach a dog how you want it to act. If you have no plans to make that kind of commitment, then it's in the dog's best interests to find another home where the people will care for it properly.

That and you have to think of living with an untrained beast who will jump on your guests, shred your stuff, poop and pee where it shouldn't. Nobody wants to live like that, least of all the dog.

Sounds like the housemate is too flaky to be reasoned with or dealt with in a mature adult manner, so I'd go with sneaky passive aggression.


I absolutely agree with you that she has no business having a dog. This isn't even her only dog- she also has a little asshole shih-tzu that growls all the time, even when you're in the middle of petting him. She can't housetrain the little fucker, of course, so the thing wears a diaper.:rolleyes:

However, the problem with taking the dog in the OP somewhere and telling her that it got out and is gone, is that since I don't know the roomie that well yet, she is unpredictable to me. I don't know what she would do if she viewed the dog being gone as my fault- freak out, kick us out, who knows? In my dealings with crazy or possibly crazy people, I tend to want to stay on their good side. I do have to sleep sometime.:p

[Alice The Goon]

Until she trains her or you move out I have a quick suggestion. You (secretly) pick up some liver treats (and keep them hidden from dog and roommate) and when no one is around over the next week or so you train the dog to respond to the word 'treat'. It's probably the easiest "trick" you can teach a dog. This way, if and when the dog does get out, yelling "treat" will have her running back to you.


I'm going to start doing this today, after I go to the store to get treats.

[Dogzilla]

Well, then, go with the "hijack the dog" plan and take her with you when you move out because you never really actually managed to get on the lease, and so of course you are not obligated, and you next place will take dogs and not have a batshit crazy roommate. And your kid will bond with the dog, learn how to train dogs with you, and have a really great relationship with the dog.

Or something. Congratulations on your new dog!

:D

ETA: If you do the liver treat thing, that dog will be totally bonded to you. Regardless of what your roommate says, to the dog, you will be its alpha.

[Harmonious Discord]

Train the dog to hate her.

[Joey P]

Train the dog to hate her.

or to shoot bees at her when she barks.

[Filbert]

Feel for you :( My ex-housemate had 3 dogs, two when I moved in which were... ok.. both had a few issues, but they were both housetrained and barring barking quite a lot they kept themselves to themselves.

Then she got another one. She did actually ask me if it was OK- I said no. It's not. I suppose she listened, as it turned out not to be a dog but a hellfiend in dog form. She actively opposed anyone training it because it would 'make it act unnaturally'. It bit, both in play and when you tried to stop it doing anything, and it was a BIG dog. It crapped and peed everwhere (inside a duvet cover on someone else's bed being the most impressive), and after a few weeks the other dogs started copying it, it also ran away if you opened the door without making sure it was shut in. It couldn't get in my room, but chewed stuff up anywhere else it could.

She got bored of it after a month or so, and just stopped walking it, and also took to occasionally going away for a few days without telling anyone else that she wasn't coming back that night. I basically told her I would keep the dogs' water bowl topped up if I noticed it was empty, I would let them out into the back yard when I was home, but I was not feeding them, I was not walking them, they were not my dogs. My other two housemates wound up looking after all three dogs (and one of them had her own little dog as well).

I moved as soon as I could. So did both other housemates. I did wonder if I should call the RSPCA, but I never did it. She actually used to work at a dog rescue place, which is where the original dogs came from, it still boggles my mind that she was so ludicrously bad with them.

[Wheelz]

Alice, I don't have any advice on the dog issue, but I'm still kind of cringing over the fact that you moved into a house with people you barely know, with no lease. This sounds to me like a recipie for disaster. If her name is the only one on the lease, you have no rights here. She might even be violating her own lease by renting to you, which could explain why she's dragging her feet on putting anything in writing.

I totally agree that moving sucks, and I get the appeal of living in the best home and nicest neighborhood you can afford, but honestly, it really sounds as if you and your son might be better off on your own in a less-nice place.

My gut tells me to advise you to find an apartment and undo this mistake. Without a lease you can walk away from this situation without consequences. But if you're hell-bent on staying, for crying out loud, get an agreement in writing, and do it yesterday. Don't wait for your nutty rommate to "get around to it."

[AClockworkMelon]

So JoeyP was completely correct in his assessment?

I wouldn't even bring that up. IME, saying you're not going to do something is the first step towards doing it.

What you don't realize is that if you train that dog, it'll be your roommate that's training you. All you're doing is showing her that your demands and requests have no teeth and that there won't be any consequences for her pulling this kind of shit. And I promise you there will be plenty more of this kind of shit if you continue to live with her.

[6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast]

I think it's lovely that neither you, Alice The Goon, or the dog have to be re-homed.

I'm impressed by your wise and kind decision and hope your cats are too.

[Alice The Goon]

So JoeyP was completely correct in his assessment?



Yeah, pretty much. I just realized, when the dog got out yesterday and I was able to catch her without all the chasing and the drama, that it didn't have to be like that, and that I could take a different approach to the situation. Instead of being mad and miserable, hey maybe I can train the dog myself, and that makes all of us happy, and none of us moving out. It might not be the direction everybody would go in, but I'm okay with it. When I was saying I would not train the dog, I really was thinking the dog was wild and crazy and that it would be very hard- now I'm not so sure. And, no, if you knew me, you'd know that I actually don't put up with any shit from the people in my life, so I'm not worried about that.

And yes, we are meeting with the landlord this weekend, and we'll be on the lease, and everything will be legally kosher.

And thanks, 6impossiblethings!

[6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast]

You're most welcome, AtG! I think it's heartwarming that you came to the realisation that the dog doesn't deserve to be punished for having a dickly, (possibly sickly) owner.

Keep in mind that often the happiest canine and human bonds are a result of the dog picking you...

More power to ya, I say..!

[ZipperJJ]

In my dog's obedience classes, we learned that you never chase a dog (chasing is a fun game! for the dog...) and when you want a dog to return to you, you make yourself the most exciting thing around. Stay in one place, lie on the ground, make big exciting noises, flail your arms, mention treats and doggie will decide that whatever the hell you are doing is much more exciting than running down the street.

With my dog, all I had to do was figure out that her most favoritest thing ever is to go for a R.I.D.E. and whenever she starts running away, I indicate that we're going on a R.I.D.E. and she's back.

Good luck, Alice. Look for old threads about dog training - Dopers are a wealth of training knowledge!

[MsWhatsit]

In my dog's obedience classes, we learned that you never chase a dog (chasing is a fun game! for the dog...) and when you want a dog to return to you, you make yourself the most exciting thing around. Stay in one place, lie on the ground, make big exciting noises, flail your arms, mention treats and doggie will decide that whatever the hell you are doing is much more exciting than running down the street.

This also works for my 3-year-old.

[Andrew Trezise]

If you're renting a joint, I think it's irresponsible to have pets. Folks like this don't sound like responsible dog owners. First and main concern is for the 12 y.o. lad...is the dog any risk to him? How does this woman expect to contain the dog?

[Alice The Goon]

No, she's not a responsible dog owner. But I don't think renting has anything to do with it. If we all had to wait to buy a home to have a pet, my god, there'd be a lot of lonely people in the world.

As for my 12 year-old, the dog isn't really a biter, and he knows not to run out into the street after her (unlike her 9 year-old, but then I'm not responsible for him so I really don't care).

I'm not sure how she expects to contain or do anything with the dog- that's the whole point of this thread.

[AClockworkMelon]

When I was little and our dog would get out (she wasn't trained at all and would run out the door if you let her. Sadly, it took her getting hit by a car- don't worry, she was taken to the vet and she was fine- to learn not to run out. Well, she'd still run out, but after that she'd stop at the end of the lawn and just look down the road) the way we'd coax it back inside would be to go out, make sure she could see us, and then ourselves run back into the house. I guess she figured it was a game because if she saw you running she'd come bouncing after you, only to zoom away again if you gave any sign of turning back at her.

I guess she had us pretty well trained.

[Kilmore]

I just have the feeling that if you stay with your roommate you will end up as plaintiff and defendant.

[sandra_nz]

What's happening with getting the lease sorted? I'm a bit concerned that you're suddenly going to be faced with a legal document that states 'no pets'.

[TruCelt]

Until she trains her or you move out I have a quick suggestion. You (secretly) pick up some liver treats (and keep them hidden from dog and roommate) and when no one is around over the next week or so you train the dog to respond to the word 'treat'. It's probably the easiest "trick" you can teach a dog. This way, if and when the dog does get out, yelling "treat" will have her running back to you. For any one of a number of reasons I wouldn't let on that you taught her this trick or that you have the treats, but just get her responding to the word and once she does, maybe do it once or twice a week just to make sure she remembers it. It'll probably come in handy someday when she slips past you and heads for an intersection.
Also, make sure you keep those treats somewhere that the dog can't access them, like on the top shelf of a closet with a closed door.

Pure brilliance.

[Alice The Goon]

What's happening with getting the lease sorted? I'm a bit concerned that you're suddenly going to be faced with a legal document that states 'no pets'.


I'll be meeting with the landlord this weekend to get on the lease. She already had a dog and a cat when she moved in, so I'm guessing pets are okay. I'd really, to be honest, not even be on the lease, because I feel that gives me an out if things get bad, and in this city you can't kick someone out without evicting them if they live somewhere, whether they are on the lease or not. But you guys and your lectures have persuaded me to go ahead and get on it!

[neuroman]

I absolutely agree with you that she has no business having a dog. This isn't even her only dog- she also has a little asshole shih-tzu that growls all the time, even when you're in the middle of petting him. She can't housetrain the little fucker, of course, so the thing wears a diaper.:rolleyes:

However, the problem with taking the dog in the OP somewhere and telling her that it got out and is gone, is that since I don't know the roomie that well yet, she is unpredictable to me. I don't know what she would do if she viewed the dog being gone as my fault- freak out, kick us out, who knows? In my dealings with crazy or possibly crazy people, I tend to want to stay on their good side. I do have to sleep sometime.:p

I hope that nice house in the nice neighborhood is REALLY worth it to you. You couldn't pay me to live with someone like this, and I hope when this person bites you in the behind (not if; there is never an "if" when dealing with someone like this), it doesn't break the skin. :(

You sound committed but before you sign a lease I encourage some serious introspection. Also, I have no idea why you'd even want to be on the lease in this case--I see a major downside (locked into living with crazy person for fixed time period of considerable length) and little to no upside.

[Alice The Goon]

Also, I have no idea why you'd even want to be on the lease in this case--I see a major downside (locked into living with crazy person for fixed time period of considerable length) and little to no upside.


That's what I thought, but then all these posters said OMGWTF you have to get on the lease!!1

I am pretty committed to living here. If it were just me, I'd be gone yesterday, but I can't keep uprooting my son, not to mention my own pets, moving around and paying rents and deposits. I have to at least try my best to make this work.

[Wheelz]

You sound committed but before you sign a lease I encourage some serious introspection. Also, I have no idea why you'd even want to be on the lease in this case--I see a major downside (locked into living with crazy person for fixed time period of considerable length) and little to no upside.I'd say the downside of the status quo is that crazy-roommate, who is on the lease, might at any random time say, "Since I'm the one who's actually renting the house, the kitchen and backyard are mine; you can't use them," or "Times are tough -- I'm doubling your rent," or even "I've decided to let my unemployed drug-addicted cousin live here with me instead, so you have to be out by next Wednesday," and Alice would have no legal recourse against her. Won't happen? Probably not, but you never know. Best to be covered.

For what it's worth, my choices for Alice's best course of action:

1. Move out now.
2. Stay, but get on the lease.
.
.
.
157. Stay without any written lease agreement.

[NinetyWt]

or to shoot bees at her when she barks.

Or to steal the room mate's ham.

[ShelliBean]

One thing to think about and maybe talk to your son occasionally: what do you plan on happening in the long run? I just picture a horrible scene one day when you move out and you have put all this energy and love into what is essentially your dog, and roomie says "tell doggie goodbye." Not suggesting anything either way, just want you to be prepared and possibly discuss with roomie when you get to know her better.

Also, I had all these ideas about why this living arrangement was not good, etc... But then I remembered I would rather set my stuff on fire and walk away than move. So screw that. :)