Help me remember what was so great about Bonnie and Clyde

[kevlaw]

I've trying to round out my teenage son's education with some great movies from days past.

I've had very mixed success.

For many of my favourite movies (to kill a mocking bird, cool hand luke), he shrugs or says "meh". He has absolutely loved others (saving private ryan, platoon, first blood, porky's, life of brian).

Ok, i can understand that. I have a pretty good feel now for what he would like and not like now.

A couple of weeks ago he had a girl friend over and we had them watch - after a robust sales job to overcome their scepticism - Thelma and Louise. They both were amazed at how great it was.

She visited again last night and, thinking I was on a roll, i suggested that they try Bonnie and Clyde. "if you liked T&L..."

Even i was very disappointed by it.

I found the acting heavy handed, the plot silly, the characters cartoony and the whole thing a little over-baked. It was like a cartoon strip made into an action movie.

Why did i have such a high opinion of the movie before? Why is it considered such a great?

Was the movie really great? Have my tastes changed? Or did i misremember?

[Earl Snake-Hips Tucker]

Can't answer, but . . .

According to Warren Beatty, when they were trying to sell the idea to Jack Warner, they told him that it would be an homage to the old gangster films. Warner then replied, "Great! Great!. . . . What's an o-MAAAAHZH?"

[Cuckoorex]

Show them The Princess Bride, then Swingers. You can't lose.

[wedgehed]

B&C was considered extremely violent for its time - today, not so much. Plus, B&C had the whole counter-culture backdrop to boost its popularity (those crazy mixed up kids!).

I can still watch it, but it hasn't aged very well. Gene Hackman is probably its sole remaining grace.

[kevlaw]

Show them The Princess Bride, then Swingers. You can't lose.

When i first announced my quest to a friend, the first movie that he suggested was The Princess Bride and so we watched it. I honestly don't get why it's on anyone's list of favourite movies,

I've never seen Swingers but I refuse to hijack my own thread (anymore) :)

[wedgehed]

For many of my favourite movies (to kill a mocking bird, cool hand luke), he shrugs or says "meh".


I find this depressing.

:(

How about some classic John Wayne? The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance moves at a brisk pace & Lee Marvin still scares the hell out of me.

[Joey P]

She visited again last night and, thinking I was on a roll, i suggested that they try Bonnie and Clyde. "if you liked T&L..."

Even i was very disappointed by it.

I found the acting heavy handed, the plot silly, the characters cartoony and the whole thing a little over-baked. It was like a cartoon strip made into an action movie.


Not to turn this into a movie recommendation thread and honestly the only thing that made this jump into my head was that you listed two other movies with two names in the title, but, you might try Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.

[Lamia]

Why did i have such a high opinion of the movie before? Why is it considered such a great?

Was the movie really great? Have my tastes changed? Or did i misremember?I think Bonnie and Clyde is considered great in part for reasons that don't age well: it was groundbreaking and highly influential. It was released in the last years of the old Production Code, and Bonnie and Clyde is also known as one of the movies that helped to finally kill the Code.

I wasn't around in 1967, but it's my understanding that Bonnie and Clyde was considered shocking/novel at the time of its release due to the glorification of criminals, graphic violence, and frank depiction of sexual themes. All of this would be an old hat to anyone who grew up on more recent movies, but it was extreme at the time. Actually, I think the ending would still be considered edgy even for a modern movie.

Bonnie and Clyde was not a critical success at the time of its release, but did do very well at the box office. Roger Ebert was one of the few critics in 1967 who praised it -- you can read his original 1967 review here (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19670925/REVIEWS/709250301/1023), and the 1998 essay from his "Great Movies" series here (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19980803/REVIEWS08/401010306/1023).

[kevlaw]

I think Bonnie and Clyde is considered great in part for reasons that don't age well: it was groundbreaking and highly influential. It was released in the last years of the old Production Code, and Bonnie and Clyde is also known as one of the movies that helped to finally kill the Code.

Bonnie and Clyde was not a critical success at the time of its release, but did do very well at the box office. Roger Ebert was one of the few critics in 1967 who praised it -- you can read his original 1967 review here (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19670925/REVIEWS/709250301/1023), and the 1998 essay from his "Great Movies" series here (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19980803/REVIEWS08/401010306/1023).

I read the first ebert review.

But this time, maybe, they'll get more than they counted on. The violence in most American movies is of a curiously bloodless quality. People are shot and they die, but they do not suffer. The murders are something to be gotten over with, so the audience will have its money's worth, the same is true of the sex. Both are like the toy in a Crackerjack box: Worthless, but you feel cheated it it's not there.

In "Bonnie and Clyde," however, real people die. Before they die they suffer, horribly. Before they suffer they laugh, and play checkers, and make love, or try to. These become people we know, and when they die it is not at all pleasant to be in the audience.

The reality of the violence and the sex is still somewhat shocking and, now that he mentions it, i think the unreal, cartoony feel of the rest of the move only serves to highlight the very real violence. Reminds a bit of 300 in that regard.

I really wanted to love the movie still and i wish for a switch that would put me back into the frame of mind where it was new for me.

I can do that for some movies... Mockingbird, cool hand luke, first blood... And overlook some of the technical aspects that dont compare well to modern techniques. But for others... Anything by hitchcock for example, i just can't seem to suspend my disbelief enough to lose myself in the experience. Sadly, B&C fell into that category.

Oddly enough, i was worried that I (and the kids) wouldn't enjoy Thelma and Louise for that same reason but it wasn't a problem at all.

Unrelated point: i had forgotten the brutal rape scene in T&L and I squirmed a little that I was showing it to 15 yr old girl that I barely know. I almost reached for the off switch on the remote but I am glad I did not.

[kevlaw]

Not to turn this into a movie recommendation thread and honestly the only thing that made this jump into my head was that you listed two other movies with two names in the title, but, you might try Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.

I love that movie, but I have mentally filed that under movies my son will say "meh" to

We have done well with war movies and I wonder how we would do with some older english movies like Bridge Over the River Kwai or The Great Escape would fare under my son's sceptical gaze. I think I have to earn back some credibility before I try something too radical again.

I'm sure he would enjoy the Godfather movies but I need to work on my sales pitch a little first.

Recommendations welcome.

[Zeldar]

Except for the car (and them) getting shot to hell, nothing flashes into my memory that I consider noteworthy about it.

The only movies from that era that I can go back to and be rewarded for the effort because (for me at least) they don't go stale are:

1) Bullitt
2) Cool Hand Luke
3) The Getaway (McQueen, MacGraw version -- the Baldwin version is pitiful)
4) The Conversation

Eastwood's stuff (even if it has gotten rather campy over the years) is also worth considering for younger folks. Same with The Godfather.

[Little Nemo]

You made the mistake of watching the movie when it wasn't 1967.

Take a tip from this and avoid watching Easy Rider anytime other than 1969.

[kevlaw]

You made the mistake of watching the movie when it wasn't 1967.

Take a tip from this and avoid watching Easy Rider anytime other than 1969.

Yep. Easy Rider sprang to my mind too as an example of, my, how things have changed. anything with James Dean in it has suffered in a similar way. His rebel without a cause probably wouldn't even end up in detention these days.

[kevlaw]

Eastwood's stuff (even if it has gotten rather campy over the years) is also worth considering for younger folks. Same with The Godfather.

The Fistful series failed miserably with my son. He's older now so i might try again. Dirty Harry might fare better.

He just conceded that he would consider trying the godfather.

[aceplace57]

Faye Dunaway was the best reason to watch Bonnie & Clyde. It's one of her few roles I liked.

[Yllaria]

Would Kelly's Heroes be likely to succeed? It's not a heroes movie and not an anti-heroes movie. Plus it has a sense of humor about itself.

[Sam A. Robrin]

You made the mistake of watching the movie when it wasn't 1967.

Take a tip from this and avoid watching Easy Rider anytime other than 1969.

Or, for that matter, The Graduate. So many movies that were then thought so profound now seem so sophomoric. (Rebel Without a Cause is another.)

[Raygun99]

I think the Graduate is still a great film, but for the opposite reason it was a great film when it was first released.

[kevlaw]

Would Kelly's Heroes be likely to succeed? It's not a heroes movie and not an anti-heroes movie. Plus it has a sense of humor about itself.

Maybe! Actually the thing that started this exercise was coming back for inglorious basterds - the first serious movie that he enjoyed - and deciding to find more important movies that he would like.

Ok, so we relaxed the definition of important for Porky's and Rambo. :)

M.A.S.H was a great success along with most of the Vietnam movies.

[carnivorousplant]

Recommendations welcome.

Hud.
The Sand Pebbles.

[Little Nemo]

Would Kelly's Heroes be likely to succeed? It's not a heroes movie and not an anti-heroes movie. Plus it has a sense of humor about itself.Kelly's Heroes still works well. You just have to remember it's not really a war movie - it's a heist movie that happens to be set in the middle of a war.

[Little Nemo]

Rebel Without a Cause is another.I didn't see Rebel Without a Cause in 1955. But I did see it when I was thirteen which may have had the same effect.

[Yllaria]

Kelly's Heroes still works well. You just have to remember it's not really a war movie - it's a heist movie that happens to be set in the middle of a war.

That describes it perfectly.

[Little Nemo]

M.A.S.H was a great success along with most of the Vietnam movies.If you're looking for a good anti-war movie, I'd recommend The Americanization of Emily.

[kevlaw]

Hud.
The Sand Pebbles.

Huh. Never seen sand pebbles. I just added that to the list for me!

[needscoffee]

The older movies aren't paced the same way newer ones are. My teens don't much care for them, either, unless they're on the big screen. The Great Escape would be a good one, I think.

[BrotherCadfael]

I think the Graduate is still a great film, but for the opposite reason it was a great film when it was first released.Can you expand on this?

[Uncle Brother Walker]

I liked Bonnie & Clyde. I saw it when I was younger and I really enjoyed the romanticizing of the bank robbers. It made me root for the "bad guys". But I also really liked the banjo music during the chase scenes. I actually felt sorry for Bonnie when the Texas Ranger spit on her.

I think that most movies from this era would be better entertainment for a younger than teen, say ten or eleven. Your parenting skills may differ than mine (I don't have any kids), but it's your choice as to what you let your kids watch. In this over-informed internet age, I think kids become jaded to movie violence very quickly. Then again, this is coming from a guy whose sister showed him A Clockwork Orange at around twelve years old. So take that with a grain of salt.

As an aside, you might want to discuss the differences in "then vs now" movies. Remember how your parents were totally freaked by Psycho? Most people who see it for the first time nowadays usually go "meh". I would recommend showing him The Thing-Both the Howard Hawks version and the John Carpenter version. It's really the same story, but man, are those two movies different. Just goes to show you how movies have changed over 50 years.

Other recommendations, if you're looking for nostalgia, would be Cannery Row and The Long Riders. Cannery Row because of John Houston's narration, an excellent story, and the image of a simpler time with people doing the best they can with what they've got. I recommend the Long Riders because I do it every chance I get. Not only is it a great western, but it also shows the James/Younger gang as "good guys" who you get to feel empathy for, shows honor amongst gentlemen, and the cast is five real life sets of brothers playing movie brothers. Most people overlook that fact as well. Oh, and a great score to boot.

[Susanann]

I liked Bonnie & Clyde. I actually felt sorry for Bonnie when the Texas Ranger spit on her.
.
According to Blache Barrow, that indicent never happened.

According to her book (My Life With Bonnie and Clyde), a lot of other things in the movie also never really happened.

I really like the movie until I read Blache's book. Blanche's book made their life seem pretty depressing, always on the road, living out of a car, constantly traveling hundreds of miles back and forth, always fearful of being identified or caught. Blache made it sound like a pretty miserable way to live.

[Spoke]

Bonnie and Clyde was not a critical success at the time of its release...

:confused: It got 10 Oscar nominations (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0061418/awards), including nominations for Best Picture and Best Screenplay, and five acting nominations.

[Spoke]

As for recommendations, Last of the Mohicans (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104691/) is almost 20 years old, so I guess that would count as a classic from a teen perspective. For westerns, I'd recommend The Cowboys (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068421/).

The older movies aren't paced the same way newer ones are.

That's it exactly. The pacing of older movies just doesn't work for today's audiences.

[Maserschmidt]

Oddly, the most entertaining part for me of this thread is learning what movies click for kevlaw's son and which ones don't. Please keep us posted.

[Zeldar]

That's it exactly. The pacing of older movies just doesn't work for today's audiences.

Another component that seems to have changed drastically is exposition.

Last night I watched for the first time in many years Bad Day at Black Rock (1955) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047849/) and was stunned at how sloppy the story line was developed and revealed. Gigantic leaps and huge holes and all in the name of "suspense."

The antithesis is either the overly talky backstory and flashback montage to tell you all sorts of nitpicky details that may be real parts of the plot or just clumsy red herrings, or the bare bones detail revelations of masterpieces like Soylent Green (1973) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070723/) (masterpiece only in the sense of how the twist at the end is a real surprise).

"Bad Day" in spite of a stellar cast was just swiss cheese in terms of plot and story development. That was more the norm in those days than now.

[Cliffy]

I saw Bonnie & Clyde for the first time a couple months ago. I liked it, but I watch a lot of older films, so I'm already practiced in sinking in to a style of filmmaking that is long past. The things I liked about it were the same things Ebert did -- these were likable, believable people and we spent enough time with them to really get to know them. Plus, they were presented so differently than movie criminals are today (all skintight black outfits and precision timing). And then the ending, even though I knew it was coming, is just really horrible and brutal in its refusal to cut away.

Also, Faye Dunaway was just off the charts beautiful. I could look at her all day, and she was an excellent actress back then too. What a tragic case of time refusing to stand still.

--Cliffy

[johnpost]

sound track was and is great. when a movie gives a boost to the soundtrack music genre it is a popular and maybe good movie.

[AClockworkMelon]

This is sort of related; have any of you watched old movie trailers? Most of them suck hard. Even ones from like ten years ago. There's just something different about them that I can't put my finger on.

[Spoke]

This is sort of related; have any of you watched old movie trailers? Most of them suck hard. Even ones from like ten years ago. There's just something different about them that I can't put my finger on.

Pretty good example: 1969 True Grit trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn_N17JyPbc)

[Lamia]

:confused: It got 10 Oscar nominations (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0061418/awards), including nominations for Best Picture and Best Screenplay, and five acting nominations.Does that change the fact that it received many mixed and negative reviews at the time of its release? See for instance Variety's 1967 review (http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout=Variety100&reviewid=VE1117789435&content=jump&jump=review&category=1935&cs=1&p=0), which says the movie had some good parts but was uneven and rather disappointing. I can't find it online, but Newsweek's Joseph Morgenstern slammed the movie upon its release, only to later say that he'd been wrong and re-review the movie much more favorably. There's a little about this, and the other bad early reviews of the movie, in this 1997 L.A. Times piece (http://articles.latimes.com/1997/aug/25/entertainment/ca-25695).

[AClockworkMelon]

Pretty good example: 1969 True Grit trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn_N17JyPbc)Wow. I've never seen the original but it looks fucking horrible from that trailer.

[Spoke]

Wow. I've never seen the original but it looks fucking horrible from that trailer.

It's a good movie. You'd never know it from that trailer, though.

[Morgenstern]

This may take a little salesmanship on your part, but Schindler's list is very much worth the time.

[boozilu]

I just came across The Dirty Dozen on TCM last night -- had to watch it to the end even though it was past my bedtime.

Try that one!

[kevlaw]

Oddly, the most entertaining part for me of this thread is learning what movies click for kevlaw's son and which ones don't. Please keep us posted.

It's been a real adventure trying to find out, i tell you.

I mentally put older movies into 3 categories...

- he's gonna love this
- he's gonna hate this
- he'll love this if only i can get him to watch

Although he often surprises me, i think my instincts for what he would like are better than his own. He forms an opinion instantly and it's hard to change his mind and get him to watch something once he has decided he's gonna hate it and the first 10 minutes of a movie are crucial. If it's all sweeping vistas and meaningful glances at the start - as so many movies from 30+ years ago are - he'll start reaching for the interwebs. So action movies have a natural headstart.

I'm struggling to think of a slow movie that he liked - but I keep trying!

I'm often surprised at how badly i misremembered old movies. B&C has more than it's fair share of knowing looks and windswept prairies before they get in that car. It's much slower that i remembered. So was first blood. But once first blood gets rolling, it really rolls right a long and i think that's the necessary component to get past his meh filter.

[Jophiel]

The things I liked about it were the same things Ebert did -- these were likable, believable people and we spent enough time with them to really get to know them. Plus, they were presented so differently than movie criminals are today (all skintight black outfits and precision timing). And then the ending, even though I knew it was coming, is just really horrible and brutal in its refusal to cut away.
Based on this thread, I JUST watched the movie for the first time via Netflix streaming and loved it. Despite knowing how it ended, the ending was still a "holy shit" moment despite having seen a bajillion violent movies in my time.

[kevlaw]

This may take a little salesmanship on your part, but Schindler's list is very much worth the time.

I have a handful of movies up my sleeve that i know he'll enjoy if i pick my moment.

Schindler's List is one. Apocolypse Now is another.

I scored big with Private Ryan but, with difficult movies, timing is everything. I was able to whip that one out after he learned something about the normandy landings at school. The holocaust is a tougher sell but i know the day will come when he is ready.

The most compelling holocaust movie for me is Life is Beautiful so we'll be watching that first.

[Peter Morris]

Warner then replied, "Great! Great!. . . . What's an o-MAAAAHZH?"

I don't understand. What does that last word mean?

[Little Nemo]

I don't understand. What does that last word mean?It's presumedly the way Jack Warner pronounced homage.

[Gray Ghost]

It sounds like he's good with action movies (though I can't understand then why he didn't like the spaghetti westerns you showed him---who doesn't like The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly?). How do you think he'd like something like Rashomon (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042876/)? Or do you think the relativism from the different POV is something that he'd need to be older to appreciate? (I saw it in college and, to this day, it honestly changed the way that I view the world.)

How about The Guns of Navarone for an older war movie that, IMO, aged well? River Kwai can be a little slow for an audience needing lots of action, though it's just so lushly filmed, and I can say from unfortunate experience that Dr. Strangelove is not a movie that everyone will like (both of the other people I first saw it with were asleep by the first half hour.)

I agree with Maserschmidt that the most entertaining part of this thread is figuring out what he likes and doesn't.

[Lute Skywatcher]

I just came across The Dirty Dozen on TCM last night -- had to watch it to the end even though it was past my bedtime.

Try that one!Yes, try The Dirty Dozen; if he likes, follow with The Devil's Brigade.

[Spoke]

It sounds like he's good with action movies (though I can't understand then why he didn't like the spaghetti westerns you showed him---who doesn't like The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly?).

::raises hand::

The spaghetti westerns never did it for me.

On the other hand, I think The Outlaw Josey Wales might be a winner with the kid.

[treis]

One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest. Plus, if he likes it you can get him to read by pointing out that the book is better.

[Raygun99]

Can you expand on this?

At least to my understanding (and I was born well after the film was released so I could have this wrong), at the time, The Graduate was this ultimate anti-establishment, Fuck The Man type film. You sympathy is supposed to be with Ben and his ennui about modern life. Viewed now, we can see that he's just as full of shit, if not more so, than the establishment he's rebelling against. Future events have proven his parents right, painting everything in a different context.

[ralph124c]

A question: did FF Coppola copy the death scene (for the murder of Sonny in the Godfather)? So many similarities..in B&C, it seems like Clyde is dancing like a puppet as the bullets rip into him.
Anyway, yes, B&C was a very violent movie, and it did not present the wo characters as heroic in any way-they were total dirtbags.

[aceplace57]

I rewatched B&C tonight. I'd forgotten how much they played up the Clyde is impotent storyline. Every time he'd start to romance Bonnie he'd pull away in disgust. She was pretty pissed too. :D

Not sure that was accurate. I read several books on them. Clyde probably did get buggered in prison. Prison was so brutal he even chopped off a toe with an hoe or slingblade just to get into the hospital ward. I don't recall anything in the books about him being impotent. I can't see Bonnie hanging around if he had that problem.

There's been a lot of speculation that Bonnie was a few months pregnant when she died. It was covered up because of her death. Shooting a pregnant lady wasn't good for the law's image. This was in the books too.

[kevlaw]

How do you think he'd like something like Rashomon (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042876/)?

That's funny!

I watched Rashomon a couple of months ago on my own and he walked in while i was watching it. Since then, it has come to represent all that is bad about my taste in movies in his eyes. When he is naughty i threaten to make him watch Rashomon :)

the only movie that is worse - to him - was the recent gengis khan movie ( forget what is was called)

[kevlaw]

One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest. Plus, if he likes it you can get him to read by pointing out that the book is better.

This was a huge success! He loved it. I didnt think he would. Its a counter-example for the "he only likes action movies" theory!

I just read the book recently too. Took my breath away. I was surprised how different it was from the movie. Having the indian as a narrator totally changes the tone and meaning IMO.

[kevlaw]

I agree with Maserschmidt that the most entertaining part of this thread is figuring out what he likes and doesn't.

It's fun for me too... But nerve wracking when i open that little red envelope and put the shiny little disc in the dvd player. Is he gonna like this one??

Its true that action movies are the safest bet but we've had success with sentimental italian movies like il postino and cinema paradiso. Even a few french movies or more exotic. But those are always a tough sell.

Heist movies have worked. Fight Club was a huge hit.

Of the suggestions in this thread, kelly's heroes and the dirty dozen are in my queue.
I'm gonna risk Bridge Over the River Kwai too.

[Spoke]

Another suggestion: The Man Who Would Be King

[jsc1953]

It's presumedly the way Jack Warner pronounced homage.

Just the opposite; that's the way Warren Beatty (correctly) pronounced hommage.

http://www.yourdictionary.com/hommage

[Little Nemo]

Just the opposite; that's the way Warren Beatty (correctly) pronounced hommage.

http://www.yourdictionary.com/hommageIt's spelled homage and pronounced hom-ij in English, which apparently was the language Beatty and Warner were speaking in. If Beatty decided to use the French word hommage (pronounced o-mazh) you can see why Warner was confused (or why he pretended to be confused to mock Beatty).

To which Beatty undoubtedly responded, "Pretentious, moi?"

[jsc1953]

I don't want to beat a dead horse or sidetrack the thread any further...but...

Hommage and homage are two different words, with different pronunciations. (Hommage is a particular kind of artistic homage.) The punchline only makes sense if Beatty said "hommage" and Warner didn't know what he was talking about.

[kevlaw]

Another suggestion: The Man Who Would Be King

Oh! Good one! I love that movie. The book is very enjoyable too.

I think we tried watching it a long time ago but he has probably forgotten it. It's on the list!

[Prelude to Fascination]

I use older movies as a history lesson for my kids. Take Easy Rider as a perfect example. Although not a documentary, it does capture perfectly the era in which it was filmed. So I tell my kids that if they were ever interested in that period, then they should watch that film.

And by extension, watch other films of other periods (but we're talking about B&C here). Don't hit kids with a hammer, but use the film as a lesson of how things were back then (when the movie was made). As has been noted, how shocking B&C was when released, and compare it to now (Human Centipede came to mind).

Of course, it's possible to appreciate older movies for their own merits, but a lot of times, I'll watch an older movie or show, and wonder why I liked it. For example, I saw part of an episode of The Bill Cosby Show this weekend (the one where he was a gym teacher...it came out right after I Spy...not to be confused with the Huxtable version). I hadn't seen that show in 40 years+/-, and I remember loving it. And you know what? It was horrible! The acting was wooden, the lighting was harsh, the dialogue fake, only Cosby was good. Everything else stunk. But it can be a good history lesson in the ways of TV in the late 60s.

[Spoke]

Oh! Good one! I love that movie. The book is very enjoyable too.

Plus he'll know Michael Caine from the Batman movies

[Two Many Cats]

I liked Bonnie and Clyde, and still do. I don't see the acting as cartoonish. In fact, the whole "realistic acting" craze has made a number of today's movies real yawners for me. Consider Adrien Brody in The Pianist. He goes through the entire Holocaust looking slightly put out about things. Talk about dull.

There are any number of classic scenes in Bonnie and Clyde: Clyde yelling at C.W. for screwing up a getaway in the theater, Blanche and the spatula, the Texas Ranger photo scene, (who cares if it didn't happen like that? Who cares if it didn't happen at all?) C.W. getting yelled at by his father. ALL of Gene Hackman's scenes. The chases and Foggy Mountain Breakdown. Do I remember half as much from today's movies? Hell, no!

About the only thing I would edit out of Bonnie and Clyde would be the kidnap of Gene Wilder and his girlfriend. That was just pointless. So I get refreshments during that.

[johnpost]

That's funny!

I watched Rashomon a couple of months ago on my own and he walked in while i was watching it. Since then, it has come to represent all that is bad about my taste in movies in his eyes. When he is naughty i threaten to make him watch Rashomon :)

the only movie that is worse - to him - was the recent gengis khan movie ( forget what is was called)

he probably doesn't remember it like that.

[Little Nemo]

I don't want to beat a dead horse or sidetrack the thread any further...but...

Hommage and homage are two different words, with different pronunciations. (Hommage is a particular kind of artistic homage.) The punchline only makes sense if Beatty said "hommage" and Warner didn't know what he was talking about.As far as I can tell, homage and hommage are the same word in two different languages. The French word hommage may be used sometimes in talking about movies but only in the same sense that noir or mise-en-scene or verite are.

Obviously if somebody uses hommage instead of homage in conversation, they are trying to make a different impression. But it's really no different than somebody saying "I'll have the soup du jour" rather than saying "I'll have the soup of the day." The point they're making is that they're speaking in French not that they're saying anything that couldn't be said in English.

It's not like avant-garde or deja vu where the French words have a different meaning than the English words they literally translate to.

[Earl Snake-Hips Tucker]

The word, in my experience is used mainly in two different constructs:
"'Bonnie and Clyde' paid homage to the gangster movies.
In this one, I'd expect it to be pronounced "AH-midge," or thereabouts (don't have my IPA handy).
"'Bonnie and Clyde' was an homage to the gangster movies."
In this example, you might hear it pronounced either as the previous or as "oh-MAHZH." In the example I cited, that was how Beatty pronounced it, and Warner repeated it.

Beatty recounted the story in this doc (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0359203/), which airs occasionally on TCM.

[treis]

This was a huge success! He loved it. I didnt think he would. Its a counter-example for the "he only likes action movies" theory!


*high five*

Second suggestion is 12 Angry Men.

Part of the problem with old movies is that they are slow to develop and feature stilted, unimaginative, and useless dialog. If you get rid of extraneous dialog and scenes, these movies would be half as long and twice as exciting. So even though a movie like One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest is mostly talking, it's talking that is engaging and to the point. 12 Angry Men is another one like that, even though it is all talking.

[jsc1953]

As far as I can tell, homage and hommage are the same word in two different languages. The French word hommage may be used sometimes in talking about movies but only in the same sense that noir or mise-en-scene or verite are.
....

It's not like avant-garde or deja vu where the French words have a different meaning than the English words they literally translate to.

We could continue this fascinating philological discussion, or one of us could actually open the dictionary. Wait -- too late! ;)

[Little Nemo]

We could continue this fascinating philological discussion, or one of us could actually open the dictionary. Wait -- too late! ;)How about dictionary.com:No results found for hommage:
Did you mean homage?

merriam-webster.com:hommage
The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search bar above.

homage

encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com:Homage
(redirected from Hommage)

dictionary.cambridge.org:hommage was not found

Did you spell it correctly? Here are some alternatives:

homage

[kevlaw]

*high five*

Second suggestion is 12 Angry Men.


This is a tough sell. He will think our TV is broken when there is no colour.

On the other hand, he is currently addicted to a DS game where he role plays a defense attorney and gets a real kick out of the courtroom scenes.

I will try it but I'm not very confident.

[Miller]

I'm kind of doing the same thing with my dad, but in reverse. He's seventy-five, and can't get out of the house too much anymore, so for the last few years, I've been going over to my parents place for dinner and a movie. My dad provides the dinner, I bring the movie. Turns out, my dad has some pretty hip tastes in films. So far, he's liked:

Fight Club
Casion Royale (the new one)
Tropic Thunder
The Big Lebowski (I think he's enjoyed this one more than any other film I've brought over in the last four years we've been doing this)
Cowboy Bebop
Futurama
Dr. Who (also the new one)
Kung Fu Hustle
Firefly
Forgetting Sarah Marshall
Big Trouble in Little China

There's a ton more, of course - like I said, we've been doing this for four years now, and haven't repeated a movie or TV show yet.

[Little Nemo]

I mentioned The Americanization of Emily already. Here's another excellent James Garner WWII movie: 36 Hours. Garner is one of the officers planning the D-Day invasion. The Germans capture him and want to get him to give up the plans for the invasion. But they know it'll take too long to torture it out of him. So they set up a fake American hospital to convince Garner he's been in a coma for five years, the Americans won the war, and he can talk about what he did in the war because it's no longer secret.

[jsc1953]

How about dictionary.com:

merriam-webster.com:

encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com:

dictionary.cambridge.org:

Odd; did you try the link in post #60?

[Little Nemo]

Odd; did you try the link in post #60?Sure I did. Thanks to your link, it was the first one I went to. But that doesn't make it the final word on the subject, does it?

I understand the point you're making - I just don't agree with it. You're saying that homage and hommage are two seperate words in the English language which have distinct meanings. I'm saying that homage is an English word and hommage is a French word and they have essentially the same meaning.

So we appear to disagree on this issue. Is there any reason to keep posting about it?

[Susanann]

There are any number of classic scenes in Bonnie and Clyde: Clyde yelling at C.W. for screwing up a getaway in the theater, Blanche and the spatula, the Texas Ranger photo scene, (who cares if it didn't happen like that? Who cares if it didn't happen at all?)

About the only thing I would edit out of Bonnie and Clyde would be the kidnap of Gene Wilder and his girlfriend. That was just pointless. So I get refreshments during that.

According to Blanche Barrow, as I said before the Texas Ranger scene never happened, but, OTOH, they really DID! kidnap the undertaker/Gene Wilder and his girlfriend and that scene was not far from the truth..............and there WAS a point to that scene while you were out getting popcorn: it was another example/glimpse of Bonnie's dislike of the upcoming inevitable deaths of Bonnie and Clyde.

[Dangerosa]

If he likes heist movies, how about "How to Steal a Million?" Which isn't a bad introduction to the screwball comedy.

[Two Many Cats]

According to Blanche Barrow, as I said before the Texas Ranger scene never happened, but, OTOH, they really DID! kidnap the undertaker/Gene Wilder and his girlfriend and that scene was not far from the truth..............and there WAS a point to that scene while you were out getting popcorn: it was another example/glimpse of Bonnie's dislike of the upcoming inevitable deaths of Bonnie and Clyde.

Strange, then why would she write a poem celebrating their impending deaths?

[Little Nemo]

If he likes heist movies, how about "How to Steal a Million?" Which isn't a bad introduction to the screwball comedy.I was thinking of recommending that. The actual heist was really a minor point in the movie. But it worked as a good romantic comedy - Hepburn and O'Toole were great together.

[Naxos]

...Was the movie really great? Have my tastes changed? Or did i misremember?

Average Hollywood fair. Not overly sentimentalist and formulaic, but nothing important. The acting was a bit above average too.

[Susanann]

Strange, then why would she write a poem celebrating their impending deaths?

"Celebrate" is not the word.

[sqweels]

Try Little Big Man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Big_Man_(film)), hands down my favorite western.

[Elendil's Heir]

I second Little Big Man. A fine, funny, revisionist Western with a bittersweet heart. And Faye Dunaway!

If the kid likes war movies and courtroom dramas, see Breaker Morant - the best of both worlds! One of my all-time favorite flicks, about three Australian soldiers on trial for war crimes during the Boer War. Gorgeous scenery, great acting, crackling dialogue and some exciting combat scenes.

Presumed Innocent is a great courtroom drama. Liar Liar is a great courtroom comedy.

In the Line of Fire has Clint Eastwood as a grizzled old Secret Service agent matching wits with a psycho assassin wannabe played by John Malkovich. Great film.

No Way Out is a nifty spy drama/romance with a twist.

Excalibur is a violent, sexy retelling of the King Arthur legends. Good sword and sorcery.

Have you shown him Notorious? B&W, but a great espionage thriller and love story. And of course there's always Casablanca.

I'd also suggest The Hidden, a violent but fun sf thriller about an alien fugitive here on Earth.

[kevlaw]

I second Little Big Man. A fine, funny, revisionist Western with a bittersweet heart. And Faye Dunaway!

If the kid likes war movies and courtroom dramas, see Breaker Morant - the best of both worlds! One of my all-time favorite flicks, about three Australian soldiers on trial for war crimes during the Boer War. Gorgeous scenery, great acting, crackling dialogue and some exciting combat scenes.

Presumed Innocent is a great courtroom drama. Liar Liar is a great courtroom comedy.

In the Line of Fire has Clint Eastwood as a grizzled old Secret Service agent matching wits with a psycho assassin wannabe played by John Malkovich. Great film.

No Way Out is a nifty spy drama/romance with a twist.

Excalibur is a violent, sexy retelling of the King Arthur legends. Good sword and sorcery.

Have you shown him Notorious? B&W, but a great espionage thriller and love story. And of course there's always Casablanca.

I'd also suggest The Hidden, a violent but fun sf thriller about an alien fugitive here on Earth.

Black and white movies are a tough sell in my house. Casablance is my faourite movie and I watch it often .... but always alone.

Loved Excalibur and will add that one.

Little Big Man rings a bell, but I can't quite place it. Will investigate.

Likewise, Presumed Innocent. I feel like I am confusing it with Witness. Maybe I should add both!

[carnivorousplant]

Black and white movies are a tough sell in my house. Casablance is my faourite movie and I watch it often .... but always alone.



There is a colorized version. The opening market scene is cool in color.

[Elendil's Heir]

...Likewise, Presumed Innocent. I feel like I am confusing it with Witness. Maybe I should add both!

The first is about a prosecutor (Harrison Ford) charged with killing his lover. The second is about a cop (also Ford) hiding among the Amish (including Kelly McGillis and Viggo Mortensen) from Philadelphia hitmen. IMHO, the first is a better film.

[kevlaw]

The first is about a prosecutor (Harrison Ford) charged with killing his lover. The second is about a cop (also Ford) hiding among the Amish (including Kelly McGillis and Viggo Mortensen) from Philadelphia hitmen. IMHO, the first is a better film.

Then i was confusing both with yet another ford movie.

What was the one where he was a doctor accused of killing his wife and he is chased around the country by tommy lee jones?

[Skara_Brae]

Then i was confusing both with yet another ford movie.

What was the one where he was a doctor accused of killing his wife and he is chased around the country by tommy lee jones?

The Fugitive (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106977/)

[Truman Burbank]

How about Rocky?

[kevlaw]

How about Rocky?

Rocky scored a "meh".

[kevlaw]

The Fugitive (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106977/)

That's it.

[Two Many Cats]

"Celebrate" is not the word.


"The Story of Bonnie and Clyde" sounds pretty celebratory to me. Sure there's some self-pity in it, but still Bonnie's reveling in the infamous fame that the gang she's in has created. She mentions how newsboys wish that Clyde would kill some more cops so that they can sell their newspapers. She insists that the pair of them are so notorious that the law hangs crimes on them that aren't theirs. Even if that's true, she's still bragging about it.

Her vision of their death has all the romantic notions of "going down together" and "bury them side by side" (which didn't happen by the way).

I call all this celebratory. That romantic notion of dying together tickled her fancy.

[Two Many Cats]

Missed the edit window. Here's the poem. (http://www.cinetropic.com/janeloisemorris/commentary/bonn%26clyde/parkerpoem.html)

[Lute Skywatcher]

I'm watching Ladyhawke for the first time in I don't know how long. A prison break, swordfights, a couple living with a curse, and breaking back into prison should be an easy sell.

[carnivorousplant]

I'm watching Ladyhawke

I second that recommendation.

[Lamia]

I'm watching Ladyhawke for the first time in I don't know how long. A prison break, swordfights, a couple living with a curse, and breaking back into prison should be an easy sell.The soundtrack, however, is likely to cause the young man to burst out laughing.

[mack]

Goodfellas!

Chinatown (might be a meh but who knows).

[handsomeharry]

"The Story of Bonnie and Clyde" sounds pretty celebratory to me. Sure there's some self-pity in it, but still Bonnie's reveling in the infamous fame that the gang she's in has created. She mentions how newsboys wish that Clyde would kill some more cops so that they can sell their newspapers. She insists that the pair of them are so notorious that the law hangs crimes on them that aren't theirs. Even if that's true, she's still bragging about it.

Her vision of their death has all the romantic notions of "going down together" and "bury them side by side" (which didn't happen by the way).

I call all this celebratory. That romantic notion of dying together tickled her fancy.

I think you're confusing the togetherness celebration, with the death celebration. She was writing a poem, and the end line was "it's death for Bonnie & Clyde." She didn't say a 'joyous jump into the dark domain,' or anything like that. As a matter of fact, the 'going down together' could be an artistic device juxtaposing the death, which the two lines before the last line bear out.
Also, her saying that their being blamed for uncommitted crimes isn't bragging: it's complaining. Remember the scene at Moss's house:"...I guess they hung that one on us just for luck!" That wasn't Clyde bragging.
In addition, the accounts that I have read indicate that Bonnie, when with her family, was preoccupied and depressed about their sure deaths, in the few months before they bit the big one.

At any rate, the movie WAS good; I think the OP is judging the movie by his son's reaction. Maybe. The movie was set in Depression times, and, one book I read points out that the movie portrayed the boredom, despair, and need for excitement that they were seeking, and was what the producer intended.
If we understand that the Barrows were a bunch of ingnorant hillbillies, with new technology, it may help see that the movie was quite realistic, and good.
Best wishes,
hh

[handsomeharry]

I've trying to round out my teenage son's education with some great movies from days past.

I've had very mixed success.

For many of my favourite movies (to kill a mocking bird, cool hand luke), he shrugs or says "meh". He has absolutely loved others (saving private ryan, platoon, first blood, porky's, life of brian).

Ok, i can understand that. I have a pretty good feel now for what he would like and not like now.

A couple of weeks ago he had a girl friend over and we had them watch - after a robust sales job to overcome their scepticism - Thelma and Louise. They both were amazed at how great it was.

She visited again last night and, thinking I was on a roll, i suggested that they try Bonnie and Clyde. "if you liked T&L..."

Even i was very disappointed by it.

I found the acting heavy handed, the plot silly, the characters cartoony and the whole thing a little over-baked. It was like a cartoon strip made into an action movie.

Why did i have such a high opinion of the movie before? Why is it considered such a great?

Was the movie really great? Have my tastes changed? Or did i misremember?

The movie was great. You are in a great movie slump. It went like this for me, also. and I had foolish ideas of what was good, and what wasn't. Example: I saw Top Gun and Iron Eagle, for the first time within a few months of each other. At the time, I thought that Iron Eagle beat out Top Gun on all counts. I even argued the point with my friends.
Today, I see that I was in a tragic downward spiral, but I pulled out of it. Hopefully, you can, too.
I still have to eliminate these friends, though-can't have witnesses to my total breakdown around now, can we?

Best wishes,
hh

[Two Many Cats]

.
Also, her saying that their being blamed for uncommitted crimes isn't bragging: it's complaining. Remember the scene at Moss's house:"...I guess they hung that one on us just for luck!" That wasn't Clyde bragging.
In addition, the accounts that I have read indicate that Bonnie, when with her family, was preoccupied and depressed about their sure deaths, in the few months before they bit the big one.



Sorry, but I call it bragging. Sure, it's complaining in the scene you point out, but this is the poem we're talking about. In a futher scene in the movie, Clyde tells Bonnie after he reads the poem in the paper, that she made him immortal. (Or some such. I don't remember the exact words.) The Barrow Gang wouldn't have been blamed for unsolved crimes if they weren't notorious, and criminal types are rather proud of their notoriety. The "tough pose" photographs they took along the way indicate this.

I don't doubt that Bonnie had worries about her future, and didn't particularly like being reminded that she could be killed at any moment. But she didn't feel badly enough to turn herself in to the law. And I don't buy that she was an unwilling participant either.

[needscoffee]

Maybe he'd like Paper Moon ?

[Elendil's Heir]

Maybe he'd like Paper Moon ?

Also B&W, but a great con-man movie. I love Paper Moon. Or maybe have a look at The Sting, in color? Redford and Newman again, which might be an issue if the kid wasn't wild about Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid.

True Lies - a great comic action/adventure movie.

Trading Places - one of my favorite comic buddy/revenge fantasy movies.

[Little Nemo]

Trading Places - one of my favorite comic buddy/revenge fantasy movies.And there are a couple of other things in that movie that would interest a teenage boy. I know they did me.

[Susanann]

Also, her saying that their being blamed for uncommitted crimes isn't bragging: it's complaining. Remember the scene at Moss's house:"...I guess they hung that one on us just for luck!" That wasn't Clyde bragging.
In addition, the accounts that I have read indicate that Bonnie, when with her family, was preoccupied and depressed about their sure deaths, in the few months before they bit the big one.hh
Additionally, according to Blache's book, the law, the police, were constantly after, harassing, bothering, checking up on all of the Barrows. It is depressing when every time you turn around the police are after you and your family, esp when you have not done anything wrong. I think they all knew there was an inevitability of its going to constantly get worse...................which gave them no incentive to go straight since they know they would be constantly hounded by the law no matter what.

They knew they were on a course doomed to have a bad ending and there was not anything they could have done to get out of it.

Furthermore, Clyde had a very bad experience in prison, getting sexually assaulted, and there was no way Clyde would ever go to jail/prison again, he would fight to the death, so would his brother, and Bonnie and Blanche would not leave their men - therefore, they also would do down with their men.

They had no nice future and they knew it, but it was not because they wanted a bad ending, they were doomed to a bad ending.

[BMalion]

I have been buying older movies to beat the band lately.

How about Jason And The Argonauts ?

or Mysterious Island.

On a non-monster tack, Does he like film-noir?

[Elendil's Heir]

And there are a couple of other things in that movie that would interest a teenage boy. I know they did me.

Jamie Lee's charms were evident, to be sure.

[kevlaw]

Also B&W, but a great con-man movie. I love Paper Moon. Or maybe have a look at The Sting, in color? Redford and Newman again, which might be an issue if the kid wasn't wild about Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid.

True Lies - a great comic action/adventure movie.

Trading Places - one of my favorite comic buddy/revenge fantasy movies.

Trading Places was a hit.
I haven't seen Paper Moon for a long time but I remember it as being very slow.

[Elendil's Heir]

It is a little slow, I suppose, but a lot of the fun for me was the Dust Bowl atmosphere, the cons, the scenery-chewing of Madeline Kahn as Miss Trixie Delight, and the crackling dialogue between Mose and his maybe-daughter Addie.

[kevlaw]

It is a little slow, I suppose, but a lot of the fun for me was the Dust Bowl atmosphere, the cons, the scenery-chewing of Madeline Kahn as Miss Trixie Delight, and the crackling dialogue between Mose and his maybe-daughter Addie.

The only thing I remember from the movie was the line

Daddie! I need to go to the shithouse.

Tatum O'Neil was about the same age as me and my seven-year old self fell a little bit in love with her for that only for my dreams to be dashed when International Velvet was so awful several years later.

[corkboard]

I haven't seen it since I was a kid and I might be romanticizing it, but I remember loving The Great Train Robbery with Connery & Sutherland. Sutherland's hilarious. I second 12 Angry Men. Also, try An American Werewolf In London.

As for B&C, I just saw it last week for the first time. I enjoyed it more than I thought I would. I was surprised how sexualized they made Bonnie- she had just met Clyde about 10 minutes before and he showed off for her by robbing the grocery store at gunpoint (after she suggestively stroked the shaft of his gun), and it made her so horny she was trying to jump his bones during the getaway drive.

It was a really hot scene in 2011, so I can't imagine what they thought of it in 1967. Hummina hummina.

[Elendil's Heir]

The only thing I remember from the movie was the line... "Daddie! I need to go to the shithouse." ....

A particularly memorable line, to be sure, but there's so much more to the movie than that.

[Fenris]

Recommendations welcome.
Who's the black private dick
That's a sex machine to all the chicks?
SHAFT!
(You damn right!)

Who is the man that would risk his neck
For his brother man?
SHAFT!
(Can you dig it?)

Who's the cat that won't cop out
When there's danger all about?
SHAFT!
(Right On!)

They say this cat Shaft is a bad mother
(SHUT YOUR MOUTH!)
I'm talkin' 'bout SHAFT!
(THEN WE CAN DIG IT!)

He's a complicated man
But no one understands him but his woman
JOHN SHAFT!

It actually holds up surprisingly well.

And given your kid's likes and dislikes, the clear common denominator is the "Breaking glass" quotient.

"To Kill A Mockingbird"? No mockingbirds are killed and no glass is broken.
"Saving Private Ryan"? There's almost nothing BUT on-screen action. By that standard, Shaft should be a hit. (Can you dig it? That's what I'm talkin' about!)

[kevlaw]

Who's the black private dick


They say this cat Shaft is a bad mother
(SHUT YOUR MOUTH!)
I'm talkin' 'bout SHAFT!
(THEN WE CAN DIG IT!)

By that standard, Shaft should be a hit. (Can you dig it? That's what I'm talkin' about!)

Never mind the kid. I want to watch it! It's on the list!

[Lamia]

Also, try An American Werewolf In London.I was about to make the same recommendation. :) I saw this movie for the first time just a couple of years ago, and was impressed by how well it had held up. (I also realized that I'd seen this movie referenced many times in other media without knowing it!) It probably helps that it's a horror/comedy, and that the makeup effects were quite good. kevlaw's son might be interested to see what they did before CGI.

This movie does contain a sex scene that a teenager might be embarrassed to watch with a parent, although IIRC it's not that explicit for an R-rated movie.

[Lute Skywatcher]

The kid didn't care for spaghetti westerns but does like heist movies. Maybe try a heist movie that's a spaghetti western? Duck, You Sucker (aka A Fistful of Dynamite), directed and co-written by Sergio Leone, is set in Mexico during the revolution and focuses on a Mexican rebel (Rod Steiger) convincing an Irish rebel (James Coburn) to help him rob a federal bank.

[Lute Skywatcher]

On the subject of westerns: Pale Rider?

[Lute Skywatcher]

I wonder what he would think of Time Bandits.

[Little Nemo]

The kid didn't care for spaghetti westerns but does like heist movies. Maybe try a heist movie that's a spaghetti western? Duck, You Sucker (aka A Fistful of Dynamite), directed and co-written by Sergio Leone, is set in Mexico during the revolution and focuses on a Mexican rebel (Rod Steiger) convincing an Irish rebel (James Coburn) to help him rob a federal bank.The only potential problem there is that Leone never liked to be rushed through a movie. Duck, You Sucker is 157 minutes long - that's fine if you're enjoying the movie but if you're borderline on it, it starts to drag.

My recommendation for a good spaghetti western* is The Professionals: Lee Marvin, Burt Lancaster, Robert Ryan, Woody Strode, Claudia Cardinale, Jack Palance, and Ralph Bellamy.

*Purists might argue that it's not a real spaghetti western - it's an American production filmed in the United States. But it was made when the authentic spaghetti westerns were at their peak of popularity and is inspired by the genre. So it's an hommage.

[Lute Skywatcher]

The only potential problem there is that Leone never liked to be rushed through a movie. Duck, You Sucker is 157 minutes long - that's fine if you're enjoying the movie but if you're borderline on it, it starts to drag.There's usually some sort of action--stagecoach robbery, random explosions, attacking a tower held by Federales (IIRC), espionage, etc.--so I don't think dragging would be much of a problem.

[Zeldar]

On the subject of westerns: Pale Rider?

Excellent. But do the kid a favor and have him watch Shane first. That way he can see a rare example of two excellent versions of the same basic theme.

[kevlaw]

I wonder what he would think of Time Bandits.

Loved it so much we are gonna watch it again this weekend!

[kevlaw]

Excellent. But do the kid a favor and have him watch Shane first. That way he can see a rare example of two excellent versions of the same basic theme.

I tried Shane with him a couple of years ago and I almost lost my movie-choosing priviledges.

[kevlaw]

On the subject of westerns: Pale Rider?

Westerns are tough sell generally. I'd like to think we could ease our way into it via Dirty Harry -> Good bad and ugly. Or maybe, via a western with a sense of humour. Haven't found the right candidate yet.

About now someone will suggest Blazzing Saddles but that one is gonna have to overcome my bias. I can't stand Mel Brooks movies.

[Sampiro]

I can tell you what was great about Bonnie and Clyde in two words and an ampersand:


Flatt & Scruggs

Family trivia: my paternal grandfather's first cousin was the real life undertaker abducted by B&C and played by Gene Wilder in the movie. IRL it didn't end with Bonnie getting freaked out and dumping him by the roadside but laughing and saying something like "Won't be long before you get to see us again probably!" and returning him and his girlfriend to the boarding house they'd abducted them from.

The real Blanche Barrow was the only one of the principals to live to see the movie. She liked it okay though she said it wasn't historical of course and she hated her own character, saying (exact quote) "That movie made me look like a screamin' horse's ass!"

[Lute Skywatcher]

maybe, via a western with a sense of humour..Support Your Local Sheriff!

[Lute Skywatcher]

The Apple Dumpling Gang might be of interest. Tim Conway & Don Knotts rob a bank, with predictable results.

[carnivorousplant]

Support Your Local Sheriff!

Support Your Local Gunfighter is funnier. :)

[Lute Skywatcher]

Support Your Local Gunfighter is funnier. :)Maybe, but I think Sheriff would be an easier sell. :)

[carnivorousplant]

Maybe, but I think Sheriff would be an easier sell. :)

I guess Garner is Rockford in Sheriff and Maverick in Gunfighter.

Which makes me think of Skin Game.
(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0067763/plotsummary)
:)

[handsomeharry]

I rewatched B&C tonight. I'd forgotten how much they played up the Clyde is impotent storyline. Every time he'd start to romance Bonnie he'd pull away in disgust. She was pretty pissed too. :D

Not sure that was accurate. I read several books on them. Clyde probably did get buggered in prison. Prison was so brutal he even chopped off a toe with an hoe or slingblade just to get into the hospital ward. I don't recall anything in the books about him being impotent. I can't see Bonnie hanging around if he had that problem.

There's been a lot of speculation that Bonnie was a few months pregnant when she died. It was covered up because of her death. Shooting a pregnant lady wasn't good for the law's image. This was in the books too.

I read somewhere that Clyde probably went both ways, and probably preferred boys.
Proof? Hmmmm...not that I have. I haven't read, ummm, what's his name? Methvin? The guy before him? Jones? WD Jones, maybe. I forget. but he had a long confession, or something similar, and he said that Clyde and Bonnie used him like a woman. Or something. You get the idea. Somebody said something about somebody.

Best wishes,
hh

[Lute Skywatcher]

One of the best westerns with a humorous bent: Silverado. "Today, my jurisdiction ends here. Pick up my hat."

[handsomeharry]

Additionally, according to Blache's book, the law, the police, were constantly after, harassing, bothering, checking up on all of the Barrows. It is depressing when every time you turn around the police are after you and your family, esp when you have not done anything wrong. I think they all knew there was an inevitability of its going to constantly get worse...................which gave them no incentive to go straight since they know they would be constantly hounded by the law no matter what.

They knew they were on a course doomed to have a bad ending and there was not anything they could have done to get out of it.

Furthermore, Clyde had a very bad experience in prison, getting sexually assaulted, and there was no way Clyde would ever go to jail/prison again, he would fight to the death, so would his brother, and Bonnie and Blanche would not leave their men - therefore, they also would do down with their men.

They had no nice future and they knew it, but it was not because they wanted a bad ending, they were doomed to a bad ending.
Well, which came first?
One book I read pointed out that Bonnie's line "I once knew Clyde when he was honest, upright and clean" in 'The Story of Bonnie and Clyde" was dramatic license (a lie), because nobody ever knew Clyde when he wasn't a crook. He may have been small potatoes, but it seems that he started out as a real punk and thief, and then graduated to become what he did.

Best wishes,
hh

[Elendil's Heir]

The Fellowship of the Ring - Classic fantasy epic brought to vibrant life.

The Untouchables - The Feds take on Al Capone in Twenties Chicago.

Any of the Bourne movies, but especially the first.

The Matrix - Just the first. Amazing stuff in its day, and still very good.

Gettysburg - A little on the talky side, but the scenes with Jeff Daniels as Col. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain are Oscar-caliber.

Dave - Funny, wry political comedy about a Presidential lookalike.

Mission: Impossible - Spy flick. Ridiculously over-the-top but good fun.

Mr. and Mrs. Smith - A funny action-packed comedy about assassins who happen to be married to each other. You might know the stars.

[needscoffee]

It's dopey, but my kids(teens) really enjoyed The Boy in the Plastic Bubble. He might get a kick out of seeing a very young John Travolta.

[ralph124c]

Interesting thread. Us old timers don't realize just how OLD these movies are-especially to a young boy. I'd be interested to know his reaction to something really old-like "The Maltese Falcon". My daughter (23) cannot belive that movies were made in B&W!
As for "Bonny and Clyde"-yes it is a very violent movie. I think the directing was very good, and they did not glorify them (B&C) in any way..which is good. personally, I think that Clyde was borderline retarded, and Bonnie wasn't all that bright. There were pretty stupid to think that they would stay alive very long-and their biggest haul was about $700? Not much to show for months of driving around and committing robberies.
The scene I remember was when Bonnie met her mother in that rendevous in the country-and ma reminded Bonnie that she wasn't going to be alive for long (f she stayed with Clyde). Suppose Bonnie had turned herself in? The law probably would have gone easy on her-and she probably would have become a minor celebrity of sorts.

[Hello Again]

How about:
The Rock

Alongside True Lies, probably one of the greatest popcorn action flicks ever made for all-around enjoyability.

[kevlaw]

I wonder what he would think of Time Bandits.

This evening we watched a double feature of bill and ted and time bandits.

Most excellent.

[Susanann]

Suppose Bonnie had turned herself in? The law probably would have gone easy on her-and she probably would have become a minor celebrity of sorts.

Nope, not a chance.

Blanch Barrow got 10 years, and Blache never did anything other than just ride along in the car.

[kevlaw]

*high five*

Second suggestion is 12 Angry Men.

Part of the problem with old movies is that they are slow to develop and feature stilted, unimaginative, and useless dialog. If you get rid of extraneous dialog and scenes, these movies would be half as long and twice as exciting. So even though a movie like One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest is mostly talking, it's talking that is engaging and to the point. 12 Angry Men is another one like that, even though it is all talking.

Just dropping back in to say that we watched 12 Angry Men last night.

I was squirming in my seat at first because the movie is so slow to get started. The prospect of watching two hours of 12 guys sitting around a table exchanging meaningful "noire" looks and stilted "noire" dialog seemed too much even for me. And it's in black and white! But...

He loved it! He was transfixed for the whole time so

*high five*

again!

We even talked about the motivations of the various characters. The one thing that detracted from the movie for me was that all the "guilty" hold outs (except one) were all bigots or stupid. The deck was stacked in Fonda's favour. It would've been a better movie IMO if his adversaries had stronger arguments.

I assume, from the spartan scenery that it was originally a play?

[kevlaw]

In other news,

Loved it:
The Godfather
Presumed Innocent
Kelly's Heroes
Dirty Harry
Bill and Ted

OK:
Time Bandits

Meh:
Man Who Would be King
The Sand Pebbles

Next up:
Bridge over the River Kwai

I was sure he would like The man who would be king and i was sure he would not like 12 angry men. Huh. What ya gonna do?

Gonna try some more Clint Eastward considering Clint featured in two of the hits.

[Lute Skywatcher]

Since Time Bandits was okay, try The Adventures of Baron Munchausen (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096764/combined), also from Terry Gilliam.

[BrotherCadfael]

How do you think he'd like something like Rashomon (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042876/)?

Marge: But you liked Rashomon!
Homer: That's not how I remember it!

my paternal grandfather's first cousin was the real life undertaker abducted by B&C and played by Gene Wilder in the movie. Your first cousin twice removed, then.

[Lust4Life]

I found Cool Hand Luke boring and mildly depressing.

I think the Eastwood Dirty Harry movies would work for your son, but I haven't seen one for quite a while so I might be wrong.
(I exclude The Dead Pool from that recommendation)

[carnivorousplant]

Meh:

The Sand Pebbles



Steve McQueen cutting the cable with the ax and stepping back aboard San Pablo? McQueen with a BAR?

Meh?

There is no hope.

:)

[installLSC]

I saw the movie for the first time in 20 years last month. I think the reason critics considered it so groundbreaking at the time is because it was one of the first American movies that portrayed the law as the villian and the lawbreakers as heroes. Remember the scene where Clyde walks into the bank and asks the man at the teller window if that's his money or the banks? When the man replies it's his, Clyde lets him keep the money. In contrast the law has no problem taking the land people worked their entire lives (the scence where B&C run into the man looking at his forclosed home). Everything the law does seems duplicitous, whether it's doing night ambushes or the final setup.
Now the movie isn't nearly as shocking but it's still teriffic. (Well except for Blanche; how Estelle Winwood won an Oscar for screaming the entire film stuns me.) The scene where Bonnie visits her mother is the best; she knows her choices in life have doomed her. These aren't two stick figures just shooting people--they are real humans and their choices have consequences.

[Rodgers01]

I'm surprised there's so little love for Bonnie and Clyde in this thread. I first saw as a high schooler in the late '90s, and I was absolutely transfixed. Saw it again a few years ago and still loved it. My sister saw it and called me to say how impressed she was.

I liked Bonnie and Clyde, and still do. I don't see the acting as cartoonish. In fact, the whole "realistic acting" craze has made a number of today's movies real yawners for me. Consider Adrien Brody in The Pianist. He goes through the entire Holocaust looking slightly put out about things. Talk about dull.

There are any number of classic scenes in Bonnie and Clyde: Clyde yelling at C.W. for screwing up a getaway in the theater, Blanche and the spatula, the Texas Ranger photo scene, (who cares if it didn't happen like that? Who cares if it didn't happen at all?) C.W. getting yelled at by his father. ALL of Gene Hackman's scenes. The chases and Foggy Mountain Breakdown. Do I remember half as much from today's movies? Hell, no!
Hear, hear to the bolded parts.

[treis]

3rd suggestion: Boys N The Hood. I'm sure 20 years ago the title was a lot less lame sounding, but it's a great movie with great acting. He will probably get a kick out of recognizing still famous actors as they were 20 years ago.