We just saw a subliminal ad in Hannibal...So what now?

My girlfriend and I went to see Hannibal at the AMC 30 in Mesquite TX (5:00 showing, theater 16).

Early in the film, while Sir Anthony Hopkins was shown in close-up, we both noticed something.

We both saw a black band, perhaps five percent of the image's height, appear momentarily across the width of the screen--cutting through Hopkin's forehead.

Within the band we saw yellow lettering which we agreed looked like a "1-800" number. I thought it said "1-800-COLLECT", but she couldn't be sure. To me it looked like the font and coloring of their familiar logo.


My questions are:
Isn't this (still) illegal?
and
To whom do I report it?

[Cisco]

I would quadruple check it to make sure you saw what you think you saw. If it was indeed a subliminal message, especially from a company that had so much to lose, you wouldnt have seen it at all. And, did it ask a question? IIRC, the one test ive heard about regarding subliminal messages showed that it only had an effect if it asked you a question ("Wouldn't you like a Coke?", rather than "Drink Coke"). And, by the way, he isnt 'Sir' Anthony Hopkins anymore.

Cisco

I heard others nearby in the (crowded) theater make remarks like, "What was that?" at the same time that the GF and I noticed it.

It does not matter to me if it was done in the proper way for it to work--or even if it works at all! The fact that it was (apparently) done shows that the people responsible for it believed it might work, and therefore intended to commit, if not a crime, then an objectionable act.

I am personally offended, and, petty or not, I want retribution....if possible. I will report this to the appropriate authorities if I can find them.

[Bill H.]

E d'Mann wrote
I am personally offended[...] I want retribution[...] I will report this[...]
After being wronged so deeply and completely, I can certainly understand your need for retribution.

Great passion is a gift. Silly application is a crime.

bill...

Exactly how is your post an answer to my General Question?

[evilbeth]

Are you certain that you clearly saw the beginning of a telephone number (at least the 1-800 part)? I only ask because there is always a chance it might be part of the film, ala Fight Club.

evilbeth

We saw the same thing. I saw (or thought I saw--the very nature of the subject makes it hard to be absolutely certain) a "1-800". My GF independently stated to me, immediately afterwards, that she saw "a phone number, like a 1-800 number".

I suppose I should mention that her (adult) son noticed nothing.

I doubt the filmmakers are involved--If this is in all prints of the film we will soon be hearing from a lot more people who saw it.

It seems more likely that a bored (or greedy) projectionist, ala the character (name escapes me) in Fight Club, did it.

[evilbeth]

Actually, I was refering to the glimpses of Tyler Durden that can be seen all through the film on the DVD version of Fight Club. Sorry--I had forgotten about the bored projectionist thing.

[Bill H.]

This wasn't asked about either, but here's a Cecil column refuting subliminal messages in general:

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_187.html

[Phobos]

-ask the theater to check it out
-contact the movie company
-report it to the media

[Johnny L.A.]

Early in the film, I saw a black band with yellow on it cutting across the screen and Hopkins's face. I assumed the film had broken and it was a bad splice.

This was at the Mann Theatre in Culver City, CA.

[pldennison]

Do we know for sure that so-called subliminal advertising is illegal on the state or local level? The FTC prohibits unfair or deceptive advertising in interstate commerce; if this was sometning that only happened at your theater, would FTC rules even apply?

I saw Hannibal at a Hoyt's theater in Alexandria, VA, and I didn't notice anything screwy.

Cisco: He is indeed still Sir Anthony Hopkins. He doesn't lose his title just because he took American citizenship. In case you hadn't noticed, Steven Spielberg is now Sir Steven Spielberg, too. The titles are honorary.

[SpinneZiege]

We call this product placement. Some filmmakers allow this when the companies whose products are featured pay a lot of money.

Isn't this (still) illegal?

This isn't illegal. This is marketing. This is freedom of speech. It's protected by the First Amendment. I don't know what country you think you're in, but this is completely normal.

Also, FYI, Sir Anthony Hopkins became just Anthony Hopkins when he applied for U.S. citizenship. He said he "felt at home" in America.

[Rosebud]

Originally posted by SpinneZiege
We call this product placement. Some filmmakers allow this when the companies whose products are featured pay a lot of money.


I thought product placement was when a product, say a Coke can or a bag of chips or something, is prominently displayed as part of the action or in the background. I think "Wayne's World" did a little riffing on this, using Pepsi and Pizza Hut.

I'm all for freedom of speech but what E d'Mann thinks he saw sounds more like a sort of vandalism-- plastering an add across a film, making that brief moment in the film impossible to see as it was meant to be seen. I haven't seen "Hannibal" myself yet (I'm in NYC, btw) so I have no idea if this little glitch is showing up on prints here.

[pldennison]

Originally posted by SpinneZiege
We call this product placement. Some filmmakers allow this when the companies whose products are featured pay a lot of money.

Product placement does not include the use of subliminal messages, I assure you, since they are remarkably ineffective. If you're going to pay an assload of money to have your product featured in a film, you're going to want it featured.

Since it also appears that not everyone saw this when they saw the film, feel free to try again.


Isn't this (still) illegal?

This isn't illegal. This is marketing. This is freedom of speech. It's protected by the First Amendment. I don't know what country you think you're in, but this is completely normal.[/QUOTE]

BZZZZZZZZZZT! Advertising is not completely First Amendment protected; if it was, you would see advertising copy (a la Dudley Moore in Crazy People) stating that buying a Lexus will give you a bigger penis and more intelligence.

No, advertising practices are governed by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), who specifically ban "unfair and deceptive" advertising. Subliminals, even though the FTC is undecided on their effectiveness, discourages their use nonetheless. The FCC prohibits broadcasters from using them. And the BATF specifically prohibits them for use in alcohol advertising.

Also, FYI, Sir Anthony Hopkins became just Anthony Hopkins when he applied for U.S. citizenship. He said he "felt at home" in America.

No. No, no, no, no. He does not relinquish his honorary title, or did you miss where I told you that Steven Spielberg just received one, too?

[Montfort]

Originally posted by pldennison
BZZZZZZZZZZT! Advertising is not completely First Amendment protected; if it was, you would see advertising copy (a la Dudley Moore in Crazy People) stating that buying a Lexus will give you a bigger penis and more intelligence.
See, Phil, this is where you're wrong. Apparently, it's an SUV that gives you a bigger penis. :p

-- Montfort, driver of Volkswagens

[Ukulele Ike]

Originally posted by pldennison


Also, FYI, Sir Anthony Hopkins became just Anthony Hopkins when he applied for U.S. citizenship. He said he "felt at home" in America.

No. No, no, no, no. He does not relinquish his honorary title, or did you miss where I told you that Steven Spielberg just received one, too?



Incidentally, I became plain ol' "Ukulele Ike" when I applied for U.S. citizenship. Previously, I was Elizabeth II.

Phil, I hereby dub thee "Sir Pldennison."

[Songbird]

See, Phil, this is where you're wrong. Apparently, it's an SUV that gives you a bigger penis. :p
-- Montfort, driver of Volkswagens [/B]

<still giggling over this line>

As to the black band w/yellow line/type seen by some in "Hannibal," I would immediately complain to the theatre. We recently saw "Chocolat" (chick flick night) at a United Artists theatre and were extremely disappointed with the quality of the print. There were two horrible splices, countless particles on the reel/screen that made the picture appear much different than it should have. We complained to the manager after the show -- we got an apology for the very poor quality of the reel, but weren't even comped a lousy bag of popcorn! ;)

I remember taking a course in college (some 20+ years ago) about subliminal advertising. Back then, such stuff caused great fear -- like the supposed devil messages in certain records played backwards (which, IMHO, was only a way to increase record sales of albums that didn't sound frontwards or backwards).

Where's Oliver Stone when you need him?

Besides, wouldn't you expect a subliminal "Hannibal" ad to be for something that tied in better -- like "Pork: The Other White Meat?"

SDStaff Songbird

[Tretiak]

Just thought I would add that I saw Hannibal and do not recall seeing anything relating to 1-800 in the movie (although I did suddenly have the urge to make calls to faraway friends, on their dime...coincidence I am sure)

BTW, there is a very obvious product placement in the movie for NetZero (I think). Personally I am of two minds regarding product placement. When done right it actually adds to the movie, becuase to me it is kind of annoying to see someone drink "Cola" or "Beer". But when product placement is done sloppily or too obviously then the obviousness of it is also just as distracting.

[Ike Witt]

I think that everybody is missing the point. So what if it was a subliminal ad? If it was, neither E d'Mann nor his GF can tell you exactly what it was.
Johnny LA said that he thought he saw a bad edit (which I find hard to believe in a movie like this). If it was a subliminal ad, it sure didn't seem to work.
E d'Mann, you don't have any sudden impulses to make long distance calls do you?

[Beer]

You guys have too much time on your hands. The amount of discussion time you're spending on this will probably get the number (if it actually was there) more advertisement than it needs.

[DougC]

- - - Re:NetZero - I thought I read that most of the free internet services were going broke and closing up as it is, and this was a couple months back. Something about the ledgers only had one place to report revenue, titled "From Thin Air". - MC

[screech-owl]

Have you seen the movie again and if so, is it there?

WAG
If the theatre shows still-shot advertisements prior to the movie (Coke, Time-share Buy-backs, Movie Quizzes, Movie Terminology, Bits O' Movie Trivia to Keep the Kids Amused, Scream if You Had Hot Dogs for Lunch, etc.) there may have been a glitch where the operator flipped on the wrong camera and nearly started showing the ads during the movie. That may be the source of the split-second banner.


"I saw a subliminal advertising executive, but only for a second."
-- Steven Wright

[Johnny L.A.]

Johnny LA said that he thought he saw a bad edit (which I find hard to believe in a movie like this).
What I actually said was:
I assumed the film had broken and it was a bad splice.
Even a new film can break if it's handled incorrectly. If it broke in the middle of a frame I would assume the projectionist would not cut out the broken frame. (I'm not sure if the picture and soundtrack are on the same piece of film any more, and cutting a frame would put everything out of synch by 1/24 second.) When I saw this black line, I assumed that this is what happened. Although there should not have been a tape edge or debris in the frame, it could've happened.

Whatever it was, I did see a black band with something yellow in it over Hannibal's face at one point. But as adam yax said:
If it was a subliminal ad, it sure didn't seem to work.

[SpinneZiege]

Can we define 'subliminal message'?

[DaveX]

Isn't it supposed to be 'subliminable message'?

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by pldennison
In case you hadn't noticed, Steven Spielberg is now Sir Steven Spielberg, too. The titles are honorary.
Honorary, indeed.

But, he can't be referred to as Sir. He's Steven Spielberg, Knight Commander of the Civil Division of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire. You'd be more likely to see it as Steven Spielberg, K.B.E. though.

[Iguana Boy]

I thought Sir Anthony has joint citizenship, so he IS allowed to keep his title. Could be wrong though.

adam yax

Perhaps you missed my earlier point; I don't care if subliminal advertising works in general or in this specific case. IMHO it is wrong to try to do this to people.

Our legal system considers intent to be a very important feature of a crime. Whether someone intended to do wrong is sometimes the only thing that makes what they did a crime.

Besides, if I report them and they get caught, I might get my picture in the paper. :cool:

BTW, I now wish I had left the word "Sir" out of the OP.

[pldennison]

Originally posted by E d'Mann
Perhaps you missed my earlier point; I don't care if subliminal advertising works in general or in this specific case. IMHO it is wrong to try to do this to people.

Our legal system considers intent to be a very important feature of a crime. Whether someone intended to do wrong is sometimes the only thing that makes what they did a crime.

Even if they did try to show a "subliminal" in your theater (and [b]screech-owl's[/i] point is a good one), who says it was a crime? As I mentioned, the FTC recommends against them, but their rules govern interstate commerce. You'd better check to see whether your state or municipality has rules governing advertising that cover such a thing.

[Padeye]

Who cares about a stupid long distance company ad that was probably just a bad splice anyway? I wanna know what brand of copper pans he used. I've got a nice set of Calphalon commercial but is hard anodized really the best pan for sautéing prefrontal lobes.

[occ]

The product placement in Hannibal was pretty shallow. Other than the obvious (and stupid) NetZero plug, there was also a Verizon Wireless ad (a shot of a character looking at some mail, and a Verizon-emblazoned letter was prominently framed). I would think that in the spirit of the movie, they'd leave out product placements (can you really imagine Hannibal Lecter giving a testimonial? me either.), but I guess it goes to show how ridiculous advertising can get.

[Irishman]

DaveX asked:
Isn't it supposed to be 'subliminable message'?

No.

Webster's II New Riverside

subliminal: adj. [SUB + Lat. limen, limin- threshold] Pschol. 1. Below the threshold of conscious perception. - Used of stimuli. 2. Inadequate to produce conscious awareness.

There is no entry for "subliminable".

sub means "below"
limin means "line" (threshold)
al is an adjective ending - it makes it an adjective rather than a noun or verb (not sure what "sublimen" or "sublimin" would be).

-able means able to be ... This would imply that the stimulus below threshold was able to be below threshold? Or able to be sensed? Or what?

Not to mention it's too much of a tongue twister. ;)

[pldennison]

Um, Irishman? Whooooooooosh.

That was the sound of a perfectly serviceable George W. Bush joke flying over your head. :)

[sdimbert]

:hands Irishman a large sign that says "WHOOSH!":

[tomndebb]

George's middle name is Whoooosh?

[Lance Turbo]

While he missed out on poking fun at GWB, Irishman does raise a valid point. A subliminal ad is below the threshold of perception. You, and those around you in the theater, would not notcie a subliminal ad.

[scout1222]

A slight hijack, but related to what would be an ironic product placement:

Did anyone notice in the final scene in the kitchen that on top of the fridge was a copy of the Vegetarian Times Cookbook? I only noticed it because I have a copy of my own at home. Hoo hoo, the vegetarian winds up eating his own brain...

[Cartooniverse]

That'll teach me to read to the BOTTOM of the thread before posting. If it had been just one theatre full of people who saw it, I'd agree wholeheartedly with the poster who said it was probably the slide shows that are used to amuse and bemuse the audiences whilst they eat their popcorn prematurely. It's typically two machines, on an automatic pattern. One dissolves into the next. It could have been that the 1-800-Collect slide was faded up by mistake.

But, someone else in another state? Oye. Here is one WAG: The slide advertising machine is controlled by something that's an imprinted marker on the film track itself. That is to say, when the film rolls, the slides turn off. It's possible, albeit almost beyond belief, that somehow the slides were triggered momentarily AT THE SAME moment on more than one projector. There's something in the digital soundtrack at that moment that triggers the projector to start up.

As for the splicing comment. Film is projected at 24 frames per second. Even if, for some ungodly reason, a single image was somehow spliced into a film, that would not account for what these people saw. I believe you, both of you. I just can't imagine that it was anything other than the slide projector tripping on at the same moment. And yes, it could be- because the slides are re-set in sequence. My guess is that the "1-800-Collect" slide is the first one on the tray, in both theatres. :D

Cartooniverse

[Ross]

REASONED RESPONSE

I don't know much about whether or not subliminal advertising works, but [SENDMELOTSOFMONEY] I do know that my interest in this film [SENDMELOTSOFMONEY] has doubled since my conspiracy-hungry mind got hold of the idea that there might be [SENDMELOTSOFMONEY] something a bit fishy going on. If anyone's really offended by the prospect of subliminal advertising, [SENDMELOTSOFMONEY] I'd suggest that the only response worthy of us would be to ignore it. And to keep quiet about the ad... someone's spent a lot of time and money planting it, so let it vanish into thin air like it should. Or why not buy an alternate product RATHER POINTEDLY, IN FULL VIEW OF THE SECURITY CAMERAS on which the advertisers are doubtless observing us?

HONEST RESPONSE

Personally I'll be calling the number as soon as 'Hannibal' hits UK cinemas. The bottom line is, subliminal advertising is COOL, and you KNOW it. It's also a lot less insulting than half of the non-subliminal adverts out there. "Winston Tastes Good"... "Drink Coke"... I mean, come ON!

[Tristan]

[Hannibal Lecter]
Hello. You may not know who I am, although I doubt it. For those of you that don't know, I am Dr. Hannibal Lecter, a well-known psychologist, and gourmand.

When I cook with..... delicate meats, I use only the best. That's why, when I'm having a well known politician or social dilletante over for..... a good meal, I only cook with {insert name brand here}.

I highly recommend them.

Thank you for you time.

[/Hannibal Lecter]

[dtilque]

As far as being able to perceive a single frame message, people vary widely about being able to do this. Remember the "Rats" episode during the last presidential campaign? A Republican ad attacking Gore had a single frame with the word "Rats" on it. Some people noticed it while seeing it at regular speed. Others had to step through it a frame at a time to see it.

So E, it's quite possible that some people saw a single frame that others missed. But I would confirm it first by going back to the theater and expressing your concerns. Perhaps they will let you examine the scene frame by frame to see if it is indeed there. Then go to the media.

[Cisco]

Originally posted by Lance Turbo
Irishman does raise a valid point.


A point i raised in the first response! I'm honestly starting to think that other people can't see my posts.

[Protesilaus]

I've worked in a movie theater, and I think there may be another solution to this, similar to Johnny L.A.'s guess about a bad splice. E d'Mann and Johnny both describe the problem at happening early in the film, over Hopkins's face. This could just be where one reel ends and the next begins. Films arrive at the theater in several unattached reels, and the projectionist needs to connect them all together before they can be shown (Your theater's projection system may differ, though). A poor connection might cause such a problem as the black and yellow bar, if the ends of the two reels overlapped. Did either of you notice a small oval (if you've seen Fight Club, they called them "cigarette burns") flash in the upper right hand corner of the screen about the same time as this? Those signal a reel change.

E, you could go talk to the managers at your theater. Chances are that, whatever it is, they've already heard about it and figured out how it got there. If you sound really annoyed, you might even get free stuff. :D Personally, I'd recommend against asking to examine the film by hand or frame-by-frame.

FTR, I should note that I'm just speculating, and also that I've never connected the reels of film together myself.

The slides suggestion also seems like a possibility.

[idiotboy]

I, like Protesilaus, also worked in a movie theater. First as a concessionist, then as an usher, and finally as a projectionist for over 2 years.

It is true that the films come in sections. Usually for your average 90-120 minute film, we got 4-8 separate reels, each about the diameter of a dinner plate. Then we'd splice them all together onto a "platter", a 4 foot diameter turntable next to each projector that the film was fed from.

Occasionally, when we got new movies in, we would get bored. In the film booth, where most of the film maintainance was done, you'll find lots of frame clippings from films and trailers lying about on the floor. So, for shits and giggles, we'd pick up a mostly intact frame from another movie or a random trailer and insert it in between reels. Some of these got elaborate, where we'd alternate different frames with strange pictures for several seconds.

However, these mystery frames are rarely visible. If anyone does catch it, it just looks like a bad splice. If you blink, you'll miss it. It is most likely you just had some bored projectionists there with almost identical ideas. It's not that improbable, though, seeing as the different sections of a film are cut at the same point for every movie they send out. So maybe both projectionists found it neccesary to insert a piece of film with "1-800-HOTT-SEXX" written in yellow film pen between the 1st and 2nd sections of film...It's not impossible. And it's the most logical answer.

[mobo85]

Originally posted by dtilque
As far as being able to perceive a single frame message, people vary widely about being able to do this. Remember the "Rats" episode during the last presidential campaign? A Republican ad attacking Gore had a single frame with the word "Rats" on it. Some people noticed it while seeing it at regular speed. Others had to step through it a frame at a time to see it.

So E, it's quite possible that some people saw a single frame that others missed. But I would confirm it first by going back to the theater and expressing your concerns. Perhaps they will let you examine the scene frame by frame to see if it is indeed there. Then go to the media.


Actually, the RATS thing appeared for at least a couple second, as the enlarged last letters of "buerocrats," which I clearly cannot spell.

[Cisco]

Originally posted by mobo85
Actually, the RATS thing appeared for at least a couple second, as the enlarged last letters of "buerocrats," which I clearly cannot spell. [/B]


It was the last letters of "Democrats" and the 'RATS' part wasn't "enlarged" any more than the rest of the word. And I'm pretty sure it appeared for less than a second, and definately not "at least a couple second[s]".

One thing I failed to mention (partly because I don't have independent verification from the GF) is that Hopkin's entire forehead seemed to be visible, as if the film was cut to allow for the insertion but none was cut away. For a moment his forehead seemed taller.

This would seem to rule out the slide projector hypothesis.

p.s. Both the GF and I noticed the insertions in Fight Club easily, while many of our friends did not.

[Johnny L.A.]

E d'Mann: I did not notice such an effect in the "glitch" that I saw.

[Tequila Mockingbird]

I dunno.. I didn't see anything, but I'm starting to wonder if perhaps E d'Mann did see the number 1-800-THELAW2?

[Kyomara]

Quick note to evilbeth...the blips of Tyler Durden were there in the original theater print as well. I only saw it in the theater. The idea (as I'm sure you already know) is that as Tyler takes more control, he appears for longer and longer periods of screen time.

Of course, if what you meant that there are MORE of those blips on the DVD, then I beg your pardon.

As for the OP...has anyone on this thread said definitively that it was a 1-800-COLLECT ad? I thought the E d'mann said his girlfriend only kind of thought it might be, but she was at least sure that it was 1-800-SOMETHING.

And so what? They obvioulsy didn't fool anyone. If it was really a subliminal ad, they would have had to spend a shitload on it. And lots of people in multiple companies would be involved. Do you really think that a)they could keep it a secret and b)they would spend that much money for a subliminal ad that's not even subliminal enough to slip by without you noticing?

[evilbeth]

Originally posted by Kyomara
Quick note to evilbeth...the blips of Tyler Durden were there in the original theater print as well. I only saw it in the theater. The idea (as I'm sure you already know) is that as Tyler takes more control, he appears for longer and longer periods of screen time.

Of course, if what you meant that there are MORE of those blips on the DVD, then I beg your pardon.



I only saw it on DVD so that was why I included "DVD" in my response. I had assumed the number of shots of Tyler were the same in the theatrical release as in the DVD.

[Kyomara]

Oh. (insert stupid laugh)...just wonderin...

[Gadarene]

Actually, Cisco (see, someone notices your posts!), the "RATS" in the GOP ad was shown by itself in the frame over which such a stink was made--there was no accompanying "DEMOC".

[Dani Filth]

Subliminal messages eh? Ever see the movie They Live? :)

-Dani

[Johnny L.A.]

Ever see the movie They Live?
Consume.

[Cisco]

Originally posted by Gadarene
Actually, Cisco (see, someone notices your posts!), the "RATS" in the GOP ad was shown by itself in the frame over which such a stink was made--there was no accompanying "DEMOC".


It was the last letters of "Democrats" and the 'RATS' part wasn't "enlarged" any more than the rest of the word. And I'm pretty sure it appeared for less than a second, and definately not "at least a couple second[s]".


Where in my post did i say that "RATS" was never by itself? The word scrolled from left to right across the screen, so 'rats' was seen for a split second, and then 'crats', 'ocrats'...etc

[Gadarene]

Cisco:
Where in my post did i say that "RATS" was never by itself? The word scrolled from left to right across the screen, so 'rats' was seen for a split second, and then 'crats', 'ocrats'...etc

Do you have a cite for this? It contradicts everything I've heard. For example, from the New York Times (http://archives.nytimes.com:80/plweb-cgi/fastweb?state_id=982185648&view=arcview&docrank=1&numhitsfound=16&query=bush%20subliminal%20rats&query1=January%201,%201996&query2=January%2030,%202001&docid=75615&docdb=2000arc&dbname=1996arc&dbname=1997arc&dbname=1998arc&dbname=1999arc&dbname=2000arc&dbname=2001arc&numresults=10&sorting=BYRELEVANCE&operator=AND&TemplateName=doc.tmpl&setCookie=1) (membership required, but it's free) is the following:

At first glance, the Republican television commercial on prescription drugs looks like a run-of-the-mill attack advertisement.

The announcer starts by lauding George W. Bush's proposal for dealing with prescription drugs, and criticizes the plan being offered by Vice President Al Gore. Fragments of the phrase ''bureaucrats decide'' -- deriding Mr. Gore's proposal -- then dance around the screen.

Then, if the viewer watches very closely, something else happens. The word ''rats,'' a fragment of the word ''bureaucrats,'' pops up in one frame. And though the image lasts only one-thirtieth of a second, it is in huge white capital letters, larger than any other word on the commercial.

The advertisement then declares, ''The Gore prescription plan: bureaucrats decide.''

No scrolling involved, left to right or otherwise.

[Gadarene]

Damn...I was afraid that the Times link would end up being bad. If you search their archives for "rats Bush subliminal," the September 12th article I quoted from will pop right up.

Gotta straighten out my cite. :)

[SpinneZiege]

Originally posted by Johnny L.A.
Ever see the movie They Live?
Consume.



Duh...

Quit with the inside jokes. What movie is this?

The IMDB (http://www.imdb.com/) says its a John Carpenter movie (I like John Carpenter - Christine, Halloween, Vampires....). How's this one and what does it have to do with the situation?

[Babar714]

If anyone here remembers me, you might recall that I was talking about getting a job as a projectionist around the time I stopped posting. Now, as a former projectionist, I may be able to help in this matter. Yes, the sound track is still on the film, can be digital or analog, and us usually assisted by a CD (DTS, THX, etc.) Modern film stock is made out of polyester and is much harder to break than celluloid or whatever else has been used in the past.

I doubt very much that the slide projector could have turned on durring the film. They are (at my theater, anyway) programmed to turn on whenever the film projector is not on. But if the slide projector was activated somehow, there is practically no way you would see anything, except in a darker part of the frame (not Hopkin's forehead,) because film projectors use Xenon halogen short-arc lamps, which are pretty much the closest thing we have to reproducing sunlight. Little halogen light in a slide projector : Xenon light :: M-80 : Mark 5 Nuclear Warhead.

The only way this could happen is if (1)it is part of the master print. That is, it's part of the movie, which is illegal and the Studio would never allow. (2) The projectionist or manager has 1-800-COLLECT stock and is trying to get rich. The ads that you see before a film are in a slide projector carousel, and are cut from regular 35mm film stock. I tore apart a slide to examine it one day, and it had sprocket holes and everything. Except they have 5 sprocket holes to a frame instead of 4, and the sprocket holes are on top and bottom of the advertisement, which would put the ad sideways on the screen if it were spliced into a film. And the sound track is set 20something frames early and late. That is, the sound head that reads the sound track cannot be in the same place as the projector lens, so if there is an extra splice, you will hear a very quick sound blip (or nothing at all) less than a second before or after you see that frame.

I don't know how else this might happen. To know for sure, you would have to view the same print again and see if it's there. If not, it's some sort of fluke. I'm sure you won't see it again.

[SpinneZiege]

Did you ever do Tyler Durden-esque stuff while being a projectionist?

[ElDestructo]

They Live is one of my favorite movies. John Captenter made it either right before or right after Prince of Darkness, another one of my favorite movies (which didn't age as well as They Live, but you have that cool Alice Cooper cameo, so it's OK.) It's great for about the first 40-50 minutes, then the wheels fall off the wagon, so to speak.

They Live plot synopsis:

A down-on-his-luck-but-honest drifter ("Rowdy" Roddie Piper, in his finest screen role) from the midwest ends up in a shantytown in L.A. located right next to a church-run soup kitchen. He gets a job in construction, where he makes a friend (a black guy whose name I can't recall right now). Then the weirdness starts. A pirate television station is breaking into normal TV broadcasts. The announcer claims that aliens are among us, controlling our thoughts and actions through the television. The police (assisted by, you guessed it, unmarked black helicopters) raid the soup kitchen and haul most of the staff away. Rosedy Roddie gets curious, goes into the ruined church, and finds several boxes of ordinary-looking sunglasses hidden in the walls of the church. The police return and raise the shantytown where he has been living, dispersing the hundreds of homeless and sending Rowdy Roddie fleeing into the city. At some point, he puts on the sunglasses and is stunned to find that he can now see aliens roaming the streets disguised as human beings. All of the billboards now say things like "CONSUME" and "OBEY". Apparently, the aliens are using mind control machines on the entire human population, and releasing CO2 into the atmosphere (using what? cars.) to heat up the planet so they can colonize it openly. Rowdie Roddy is chased by police, gets some guns, robs a bank, kills a bunch of aliens, and then the movie comes to screeching halt with a 10-minute wrestling sequence in which Rowdy Roddie tries to convince his friend from the construction site to put on the glasses and see the aliens for himself while they're beating the shit out of each other.

The first half of the movie has a great paranoid feel about it. The premise is essentially a critique of the effect of mass media advertising on society, with a little Regan-era no-justice-for-the-poor protesting thrown in for good measure. I've actually seen this movie, which was pretty much regarded as a throwaway Carpenter sci-fi horror B-moive when it was released, written up in film textbooks for the backdoor social commentary aspects. It's well worth the two or three bucks it would take to rent it at the video store.

[Babar714]

Nah, I kinda wanted to keep my job. I hate to break it to ya all, but not all projectionists are Tyler Durden.

[Wendell Wagner]

ElDestructo,

I agree. _They Live_ is a great film, even though Roddy Piper can't act very well and there's a fight scene that goes on forever. Let me note, however, that the messages being hidden in everything by the aliens are not, strictly speaking, subliminal. They are consciously visible to anyone who hasn't had their minds clouded by the alien's mind-controlling beams and unconsciously visible when you've had your mind clouded. The weird sunglasses were somehow supposed to be able to counteract the effect of the mind-controlling beams. In effect, then, the messages put on everything by the aliens are like the word "fnord" supposedly hidden in books and newspapers by the Illuminati in Shea and Wilson's Illuminatus trilogy, which are visible to everyone and yet simultaneously prevent people from consciously noticing them. In effect, what Carpenter in _They Live_ and Shea and Wilson in the Illuminatus trilogy were each trying to do was to have a device that works like subliminal advertising is supposed to work but which avoids the problem that, in reality, subliminal advertising doesn't work.

[Mr. Ps and Qs]

I you can say subliminal, you're too smart to be president. :D