What is up with letting children run wild in public?

[LurkerInNJ]

I decided to go out for a late breakfast yesterday. Went straight from the gym, so I chose a casual place. I wasn't expecting complete silence, but I certainly wasn't expecting what I got.

I was seated in an end booth. The attached booth in front of me was occupied by a couple and their two semi-feral children. It appeared that they were nearly done (napkins in the plate) so I decided to stay and order rather than walk out. At this point, I figured they would be gone well before my order arrived.

The boy, probably 8 or 9, was running wild. He decided to fling himself on the floor next to me and do push-ups while screaming for his dad to look. Then he started boxing with his dad. As this was jostling my booth and coffee, I said "Excuse me!" to the father and son, and was ignored. I decided not to push the issue because it really did look like they would be gone in a minute or two as they now had their check and boxed leftovers.

The girl, about 6, laid down in the booth and put her feet over the seat and started kicking. I give her mother the stinkeye. Her mother takes her sweet time telling her to sit. More assorted mayhem from both children. The parents are arguing over the check. Pay cash! I don't have any cash! Put it on the card! We need the card to pay for x! and on and on. I try to concentrate on my paper. The parents stand up, start putting on their coats and it looks like they are going to leave. The boy is now running around the group of booths pretending he is on a racetrack. The parents are standing there, doing nothing.

My order arrives. I ask the waitress to handle the situation. The waitress says that she is not allowed to say anything to the parents and that the manager must handle this. I ask to speak with the manager. I'm told he is busy. She relays that a couple of other people have also complained, and asks that I just hold tight because they look like they are leaving. I tell her they have been looking like they are on the verge of leaving for the past 10 - 15 minutes. I ask to be reseated, but there is nothing available. I decide to hold off on eating until they are gone.

The boy decides it's time to crash his racecar self into the back of my booth, and fling his crashed racecar self over the back of my seat and into my booth, complete with crashed driver on fire screams. I get loud and say to the parents, who are ignoring their childrens behavior, "Please control your child!". They turn around and look at me like I am bothering them, doing nothing. I decide against physically stopping the boy from climbing in because I'm starting to get more angry than annoyed. The boy is still trying to climb over the back of my booth, screaming that he is on fire, and I say in a do not f--- with me voice "Stop it. Do not climb into my booth. " Boy ignores me. While climbing over, he knocks my coffee onto my Sunday paper and puts his jelly hands on me. I decide to put out his racecar fire with my water. Complete silence. Lady across from me who had been giving me sympathy looks is trying to stifle her laughter.

Now I have mom and dads full attention. And the attention of the manager. Mom and dad have a bust a cap in my ass ghetto attitude, so I say as sweetly as possible "He was screaming he was on fire. What did you expect to happen? I'm a mom! I instinctively threw my water on him." I stuck to that. A couple of other patrons back me up, saying the boy was screaming he was on fire and trying to get into my booth. The parents are pissed. They make threats. I'm not intimidated, I continue with the sweet and innocent. They leave.

When I was a kid, parents would have been ashamed to have their children make a ruckus in public. You act up, your parents take you outside. Keep it up and you didn't get to go to restaurants until you learned how to behave in public. No one expected to put up with other peoples out of control kids in a public setting. Now the attitude is that kids can do anything they damn please to other people and you are expected to suffer in silence.

[Cat Whisperer]

You don't understand; parents have no say in how their kids behave - all they can do is shrug with a wistful smile on their faces. At least, that's what I am given to understand from watching tv.

Sorry you had a run-in with these...people.

Oh yeah, that reminds me of something I meant to come here and rant about - parents not riding herd on their kids at buffets! Two times we have been at a buffet in the last couple of weeks, and two times I've seen a young kid fingering the food (one even taking a bite and putting it back in the dish) while their parent was nowhere in sight. I guess parents can't repress their children by not allowing them to go to the buffet by themselves, either; their fragile individuality has to be allowed to fondle the food we're all eating.

[Dogzilla]

Sadly, I don't think any parents will be popping in to defend this sort of behavior. The behavior of the parents is what I'm referring to. You hear a lot of excuses for people letting their kids act up, but you never hear a parent saying, "Yeah, I think it's just fine if my kid launches himself into someone else's meal and spills their coffee into their newspaper. I never respond to requests to control my kid because I want my kids to turn out like monkeys." I can't understand why a reasonable adult human being wouldn't say, at the very least "Oh, I'm so sorry my kid disturbed you." The blank stare response just astounds me.

I would really, really, really like to hear an explanation of this. Why do people give you that dead blank stare when they've been called out?

[Dung Beetle]

Oh man, I wish I'd seen you extinguish that kid! :)

[alice_in_wonderland]

Wait - you threw a glass of cold water all over him?

That's AWESOME!!

[Dante]

Sadly, I don't think any parents will be popping in to defend this sort of behavior.You've been here since 2000, you should know better. This is the Dope.

I'll lay odds that it'll focus on Lurker's use of water, which by the way, was awesome.

[Cat Whisperer]

You've been here since 2000, you should know better. This is the Dope.

I'll lay odds that it'll focus on Lurker's use of water, which by the way, was awesome.
Yup, you got it. "Well, you didn't have to THROW WATER on them!" "Maybe they both have Asperger's!" "Maybe the whole family has Asperger's!"

[Peremensoe]

The behavior of the parents was absolutely inexcusable. All civilized adults, parents or not, should agree on that. Civilized parents should additionally resent these parents' behavior for the bad example and bad name that their children give to ours.

The restaurant manager here deserves plenty of scorn, too, for failing to address this situation much earlier (after the first two customer complaints!), and if it were me, I'd be writing a letter right now to the restaurant owner (if independent) or regional manager (if chain) to complain about this contempt for the restaurant's patrons. (He was "busy"? Short of putting out an actual fire, what could he possibly have been doing that was more important than addressing this?)

[jz78817]

these are the kinds of people who put more consideration into what movie they want to go out to see than they do about being parents.

[Sunspace]

Sounds like someone misinterpreted Free-Range Kids (http://www.amazon.com/Free-Range-Kids-Children-Freedom-Without/dp/0470471948).

[BigT]

Yup, you got it. "Well, you didn't have to THROW WATER on them!" "Maybe they both have Asperger's!" "Maybe the whole family has Asperger's!"

I wish someone would, so I could show them why that wouldn't work.

I see nothing wrong with what the OP did.

[perfectparanoia]

Yup, you got it. "Well, you didn't have to THROW WATER on them!" "Maybe they both have Asperger's!" "Maybe the whole family has Asperger's!"

Hilarious!

[Chopper9760]

Good for you! I applaud you for putting up with that bullshit as long as you did.

[Beware of Doug]

"Well, you didn't have to THROW WATER on them!" "Maybe they both have Asperger's!" "Maybe the whole family has Asperger's!"Isn't it great when obnoxious people give us an excuse to slag on people with real problems that we just don't happen to buy?

No, really, it probably is great. It lets normal people blow off steam so they don't go out and start branding Aspies on the forehead or tying them to car bumpers.

[Pantani]

Parents should control their children in public, full stop. Part of being a parent is to bring up your children so they have consideration for others and are able to act so in public. No wiggle room on this one.

Give it ten years, these parents will be having conversations with the police at 2am and wondering where they went wrong.

It is also the duty of the resturant owner to expell any customers who are disturbing other customers. In this case I would have walked without paying the bill if they failed to act on my complaint.

[LurkerInNJ]

Wait - you threw a glass of cold water all over him?

That's AWESOME!!

He was screaming that he was on fire. :p

I'm not an agressive person and I had an "oh shit did I really just do that" moment after I did it, but it was an extreme situation.

I'm betting thats the last time this kid climbs over and into someone elses booth though.

[alphaboi867]

...It is also the duty of the resturant owner to expell any customers who are disturbing other customers. In this case I would have walked without paying the bill if they failed to act on my complaint.

Agreed. LurkerInNJ, I really hope you didn't pay for your meal. If any of the patrons deserved a comp you did. And if managment did comp a bunch of other patrons meals too you should've gotten a gift certificate too because of the boy climbing over the booth.

[lorene]

You've been here since 2000, you should know better. This is the Dope.

I'll lay odds that it'll focus on Lurker's use of water, which by the way, was awesome.

Yup, you got it. "Well, you didn't have to THROW WATER on them!" "Maybe they both have Asperger's!" "Maybe the whole family has Asperger's!"

Well, I am a parent of children the same ages as described in the OP and you won't get any defense of the parents from me. The only thing that would have been better is if Lurker threw water on the parents, too, because, you know, fire spreads quickly and all.

[Voyager]

Well, I am a parent of children the same ages as described in the OP and you won't get any defense of the parents from me. The only thing that would have been better is if Lurker threw water on the parents, too, because, you know, fire spreads quickly and all.

As a parent also, this is exactly what I was going to say.
We started our kids at a buffet with their grandparents, so there was always someone to take them out into the lobby if needed (and they never went to the buffet by themselves until they learned proper etiquette.)

[LurkerInNJ]

Agreed. LurkerInNJ, I really hope you didn't pay for your meal. If any of the patrons deserved a comp you did. And if managment did comp a bunch of other patrons meals too you should've gotten a gift certificate too because of the boy climbing over the booth.

I didn't get comped for anything.

The parents were yelling that they deserved a free meal because of what I did, and that I should be arrested, they are calling the cops, they are going to f--- me up and so forth.

The managers initial attitude was that I was in the wrong. :rolleyes: Another patron piped up and said something to the effect of the kid was screaming he was on fire, jumped into the lady's booth and the lady threw water on him, and a couple of other people confirmed it. The parents kept it up with the I'm going to kick your ass bitch attitude, but I kept cool and insisted I was only trying to help.

[Voyager]

He was screaming that he was on fire. :p

I'm not an agressive person and I had an "oh shit did I really just do that" moment after I did it, but it was an extreme situation.

I'm betting thats the last time this kid climbs over and into someone elses booth though.

I'm fine with you throwing the water. There are two additional tactics I might have used, which probably wouldn't have worked for you. One is to use my well developed parent's voice of "Don't even think of doing that or you are going to be very sorry" on him when he first hit your booth. With practice it becomes very effective, especially since it seems this kid has never heard it before. A kid running around is bad, a kid invading your space is not acceptable.

The second is to figure out a way to embarrass the parents in front of their kids. No father likes that. But I'm a guy, which makes it easier.

But I agree that the manager should have been on this, because a kid running around uncontrolled is dangerous in an environment full of trays of hot food and drinks. If the brat got scalded, it would be the restaurant's fault, no doubt.

[lorene]

As a parent also, this is exactly what I was going to say.
We started our kids at a buffet with their grandparents, so there was always someone to take them out into the lobby if needed (and they never went to the buffet by themselves until they learned proper etiquette.)

Same here. My kids are never more than an arm's length away from a grown-up, basically. This past Easter, though, we went to a buffet with my in-laws. I did allow my kids to be off with their older (14 and 16-year-old) cousins, but that was pretty twitchy for me. I kept thinking that I should be nearby, ready to sternly glare and drag one of them off by the ear if they got rowdy. But I know that the cousins would not put up with any rowdiness.

Honestly, it seems that the parents described in the OP were dicks first, (ineffective) parents second. Who fails to notice a conversation between the waitress and the patron behind them about who can I speak to about this disruption, is there another booth I can sit in, etc?

ETA: Lurker, it sounds like the manager was a dick, too. No one felt like acknowledging your spilled coffee, for instance?

[Voyager]

I didn't get comped for anything.

The parents were yelling that they deserved a free meal because of what I did, and that I should be arrested, they are calling the cops, they are going to f--- me up and so forth.

The managers initial attitude was that I was in the wrong. :rolleyes: Another patron piped up and said something to the effect of the kid was screaming he was on fire, jumped into the lady's booth and the lady threw water on him, and a couple of other people confirmed it. The parents kept it up with the I'm going to kick your ass bitch attitude, but I kept cool and insisted I was only trying to help.
Crap. You need to document this, and send a letter to the restaurant company with a copy to the manager - and also find some review sites and splatter this story all over them. I trust you'll never going back to that hellhole again.

[Dangerosa]

We'd have left the restaurant when the kids misbehaved - running around the restaurant has never been appropriate. We did once or twice when they were little. Paid the check and left.

When I was a kid, there were good parents and bad parents. I remember getting pegged in the head by a flying dinner roll 25 years ago and Perkins being a nightmare for Sunday brunch 30 years ago. I don't think its changed, but as an adult, your tolerance for misbehaving children has dropped.

[alphaboi867]

I didn't get comped for anything...

You actually payed for your meal? :eek: Why on Earth would you do that? I would've just told the manager to stick her bill where the Sun doesn't shine and left.

[steronz]

This sounds made up.

[emmaliminal]

LurkerInNJ, you're my hero.

... my well developed parent's voice of "Don't even think of doing that or you are going to be very sorry" on him when he first hit your booth. With practice it becomes very effective, especially since it seems this kid has never heard it before. ...Yabbut she tried that, before the water.... The boy is still trying to climb over the back of my booth, screaming that he is on fire, and I say in a do not f--- with me voice "Stop it. Do not climb into my booth. " Boy ignores me. ...In my experience, semi-feral kids rarely respond to the Do Not Fuck With The Parent Voice. It's unsettling. I don't know if it's because they've never heard one before and so don't know its significance, or because they HAVE heard it but their incompetent parents never follow through on it.

[LurkerInNJ]

ETA: Lurker, it sounds like the manager was a dick, too. No one felt like acknowledging your spilled coffee, for instance?

The waitress was apologetic. She has waited on me many times and I'm an easy customer who tips well, so she is always happy to get me in her section. She cleaned up the mess, got me another coffee and threw out the wet sections of the newspaper for me.

The manager was useless.

[HeyHomie]

My theory - and it's just that, a theory - is that there's some form of psychological mechanism that kicks in when parents are around other adults. For whatever reason, this mechanism somehow makes the parent oblivious to their children once they're around other adults. Maybe their brain subconsciously assumes that their children are the responsibility of The Village (as it were) and so direct supervision is unnecessary.

I've seen this in action in several places and in several situations (I know, the plural of anecdote is not data). My stepsister and her husband kept their kids on a tight leash while at home; once the kids were at family gatherings, they completely stopped paying attention to their kids at all. It was like they assumed, maybe sub-consciously, that their kids were the responsibility of the other adults in the room.

A mom at church is NOTORIOUS for this. Oncer her kids are through the doors of the church, they are the rest of the congregation's problem, not hers. She obliviously chats away with her friends while her kids run roughshod.

[LurkerInNJ]

This sounds made up.

Sadly, it's a true story.

If I were to make up a story, it would be a hell of a lot better than I went out to a diner for breakfast after the gym and there were these two misbehaving kids with parents who didn't care. It would have involved me setting the little shit on fire and using Ninja moves on the parents.

[shiftless]

Parent here. There is no excuse for the parents in the OP, except that maybe their parents were as shitty as they are so they don't know any better. You found a creative solution in an impossible situation.

It is not an example of how kids are different from in the past though.

[Voyager]

LurkerInNJ, you're my hero.

Yabbut she tried that, before the water.In my experience, semi-feral kids rarely respond to the Do Not Fuck With The Parent Voice. It's unsettling. I don't know if it's because they've never heard one before and so don't know its significance, or because they HAVE heard it but their incompetent parents never follow through on it.

Bratty kids I've seen often have parents who say "Stop it" all the time - and nothing happens. what is needed is a "Stop it or else" with the or else being some consequence, which doesn't have to actually be realistic.
But this is much easier advice for a guy, I think.
Just like dogs, really. Telling a dog to stay off a lawn does no good, telling her it with a nice jerk on the collar works very well.

[alphaboi867]

The waitress was apologetic. She has waited on me many times and I'm an easy customer who tips well, so she is always happy to get me in her section. She cleaned up the mess, got me another coffee and threw out the wet sections of the newspaper for me.

The manager was useless.

So give the waitress a tip and let the restaurant eat the cost of the meal. I hate to say it, but you're part of the reason why the manager is useless.

[mckall]

This sounds made up.

I second that one. Or at least a story about what you wanted/wished you did.

The parents were horrible, no question. I've got a 6 year old boy and he can be a fucking lunatic at times; but it's my wife and my responsibility to keep that in check. 90% of the time it works, the other time one or both of us are going outside with him to chill out or we're leaving.

That being said, dumping water on a kid, whether or not it's all cutesy and coy, is a pretty messed up thing to do for an adult to do.

[LurkerInNJ]

You actually payed for your meal? :eek: Why on Earth would you do that? I would've just told the manager to stick her bill where the Sun doesn't shine and left.

I didn't want to leave at the same time or right after the parents did because of the threats they made, so I stayed and ate.

[alphaboi867]

...That being said, dumping water on a kid, whether or not it's all cutesy and coy, is a pretty messed up thing to do for an adult to do.

I agree, but unfortunatly it's no longer social acceptable for the OP to just smack the little brat across his face.

[Dante]

Isn't it great when obnoxious people give us an excuse to slag on people with real problems that we just don't happen to buy?

No, really, it probably is great. It lets normal people blow off steam so they don't go out and start branding Aspies on the forehead or tying them to car bumpers.Swing and a miss. We're slagging on the people who make the excuses, not the person about whom the excuse is being made.

Now, if someone does come in and says "But what if they have Asperger's?" and someone else slags on Aspies, I'll line up with you for the pile-on.

[LurkerInNJ]

That being said, dumping water on a kid, whether or not it's all cutesy and coy, is a pretty messed up thing to do for an adult to do.

Throwing a pot of hot coffee on the kid would have been "messed up".

I gave the father and son an exaggerated "Excuse me!" and was pointedly ignored.

I gave the mother stinkeye and she got one kid under control at her leisure.

I asked the waitress to handle the situation.

I asked for the manager.

I got loud with the parents and said "Please control your children!" and was ignored.

I told the screaming 9 year old very clearly "Stop it. Do not climb into my booth" and he ignored me and continued.

Said kid is now in my booth, next to me, still carrying on, only now I have jelly on my clothes and coffee spilled all over my paper.

Should I have offered to buy him ice cream instead?

[steronz]

Should I have offered to buy him ice cream instead?

What would Jesus do?

[El Nene]

He cleaned the table after the family left. What would you expect him to do?

[Dung Beetle]

This sounds made up.

That being said, dumping water on a kid, whether or not it's all cutesy and coy, is a pretty messed up thing to do for an adult to do.

Neither of these things bothers me much. :D

[LurkerInNJ]

What would Jesus do?

Jesus would have completely had it with him by that point and smite (smote?) him.

[even sven]

Meh. A manager is not a hall monitor. His job is not to take sides on conflicts between adults that he has not seen and knows nothing about. Be grownup and resolve your own problems.

[steronz]

He cleaned the table after the family left. What would you expect him to do?

<claps>

[Cheesesteak]

That being said, dumping water on a kid, whether or not it's all cutesy and coy, is a pretty messed up thing to do for an adult to do.It's a kid, not the Wicked Witch of the West, he's not going to die from a cup of water dumped on his head.

[Cheesesteak]

His job is not to take sides on conflicts between adults that he has not seen and knows nothing about. Be grownup and resolve your own problems.This isn't a conflict between adults, it's a patron disturbing other patrons. It is 100% his job to ensure that his patrons are not being unduly disturbed during their meals.

[billfish678]

.

Should I have offered to buy him ice cream instead?

Naw,

You shoulda told him to ask his parents what a glory hole was and where could he find one.

[Gagundathar]

This is one of the reasons why they don't allow me to go into public venues with Thorazine-tipped darts and a blowgun.

Hey!

Don't look at me like that!
It worked really really well.
Out like a light.

[Otara]

Story sounds odd to me too.

The response was ridiculously provocative, and could have ended up in a very stupid place.

Otara

[MeanOldLady]

You are my hero. I love you.

[norinew]

What would Jesus do?
He'd have taken the high road and turned the water into wine before throwing it on the brat. ;)

Lurker, you really should pass this story further up the chain of management. It's unthinkable to me that you did everything you did, and still the problem wasn't addressed.

[kenobi 65]

This isn't a conflict between adults, it's a patron disturbing other patrons. It is 100% his job to ensure that his patrons are not being unduly disturbed during their meals.

Absolutely agreed. This wasn't a case of "he said / she said", at least not until after the manager ignored the situation and it escalated to the water-dumping. It sounds more like it's a manager who didn't want to deal with the situation, and hoped it would just go away on its own.

[lindsaybluth]

As a parent also, this is exactly what I was going to say.
We started our kids at a buffet with their grandparents, so there was always someone to take them out into the lobby if needed (and they never went to the buffet by themselves until they learned proper etiquette.)

See, why aren't there more people like this? Who put forethought into it? Who either 1) bring an extra person to remove them if they get rowdy or 2) actually get up and leave if the kids act up (I was a product of #2 and damned if I didn't learn quickly).

Sigh. Unfortunately, for pair of kids like Voyager's there are 5 like the OP's situation.

That being said, dumping water on a kid, whether or not it's all cutesy and coy, is a pretty messed up thing to do for an adult to do.

It's the only parenting he's gonna get in life.

[Magiver]

I love the water treatment. If I'd been there and witnessed what you went through I would have loudly asked for a show of hands of anybody who thought the kids were out of control. If either parents gave me any lip I would point out that they ruined the meals of everybody with their hands up and invite them to pay for their meals.

[even sven]

This isn't a conflict between adults, it's a patron disturbing other patrons. It is 100% his job to ensure that his patrons are not being unduly disturbed during their meals.

I remember when I worked in retail people were always coming up to me trying to get me to mediate their conflicts about who was cutting in line. I'm sorry. your ass is 45 years old. If a bunch of adults can't figure out how to stand in a line, that is soooooo not my problem. I've got a job to do, I don't know any of y'all, and I have no idea who is right and who is wrong because I didn't see any of this. In a dispute between two customers, I have absolutely no basis to choose one side over the other. And at this point in your life, if you don't have the balls to say "Excuse me, I think the line starts over there" and you also don't have the patience to suck up the consequences of your ball-less-ness, well I don't know what to tell you but your inability to handle kindergarten curriculum is not my problem and I'm not going to get behind on my work because you want to run up to me like a sissy eight year old.

Sheesh.

The manager did not see what happened. He has no way of knowing if the kids were being little angels and you are just a crazy grumpy person who walks around making people's lives miserable. Anyone in customer services sees tons of insane unreasonable people. He doesn't know, off the bat, which on of you guys is right. So how can you expect him to take sides?

If anything, the manager would probably take their side. If you are going to lose a customer, it's better to lose a solo customer than a family. Business is business.

[LurkerInNJ]

The manager did not see what happened. He has no way of knowing if the kids were being little angels and you are just a crazy grumpy person who walks around making people's lives miserable.

According to the waitress, I was the third person who complained about them.

[CrazyCatLady]

He doesn't know, off the bat, which on of you guys is right. So how can you expect him to take sides?

Pro tip: If he actually gets off his goddamn ass and comes out to the floor, he can actually physically see the little shit running around screaming and slamming into stuff, at which point deciding who's right and taking sides becomes a pretty straightforward process.

I suspect that is precisely why he was lurking in his office--so he wouldn't see this and have to deal with the issue.

[Peremensoe]

Meh. A manager is not a hall monitor. His job is not to take sides on conflicts between adults that he has not seen and knows nothing about. Be grownup and resolve your own problems.

even sven, I like you as a poster, but you're way off here. This was not a conflict between adults. At least it did not begin as anything of the kind, and it never would have reached that point if the manager had been doing his job. These people--the parents--were behaving grossly inappropriately in a restaurant dining room. Neither Lurker nor other patrons have any reasonable way to address this other than a word to the offenders (ineffective) or calling upon the staff. Calling upon the staff is what people do to avoid a confrontation in such circumstances.

Managing the atmosphere of a restaurant dining room most certainly is the restaurant manager's job. It is especially so in this case, because this manager has directed the wait staff not to act on such issues but to refer complaints to him. Surely by the second complaint, if not the first, the manager should have emerged to assess the situation. The nature of the disruption was apparently evident to everyone in the area; he should have been able to act on it before Lurker's booth was invaded, before the coffee spill and the jelly hands, before the dousing that finally aroused the parents and finally drew the manager.

The manager did not see what happened.

Yes. In the circumstances, this is evidence of his failure of responsibility, not an excuse for it.

Lurker, I won't criticize any of your decisions about what to do and not do at the time. It was an outrageous situation.

But I think you were abused by restaurant management, as well as by the wild family, and someone above that manager's head should hear about this.

I think you should ask an owner or higher-ranked manager to (1) reimburse you the cost of your meal, plus $X for cleaning coffee/jelly/whatever off your clothes (i.e., don't make it sound like you'll be happy with a coupon for next time), and (2) write back to confirm that he has addressed the matter with the restaurant manager (i.e., don't ask for an apology, ask for corrective action). The key point is the manager's inattention to circumstances in the dining room which were the subject of multiple complaints. That's the professional failure which the company should make amends for.

Document the whole affair, including your complaint and its resolution whichever way, to a restaurant review site. At the very least, this will strike a blow for decent behavior and managerial oversight in other restaurants, because the popular restaurant review sites are read both by many of the people who will be dining around you next time, and by many of the people who run the restaurants.

[mckall]

Throwing a pot of hot coffee on the kid would have been "messed up".

I gave the father and son an exaggerated "Excuse me!" and was pointedly ignored.

I gave the mother stinkeye and she got one kid under control at her leisure.

I asked the waitress to handle the situation.

I asked for the manager.

I got loud with the parents and said "Please control your children!" and was ignored.

I told the screaming 9 year old very clearly "Stop it. Do not climb into my booth" and he ignored me and continued.

Said kid is now in my booth, next to me, still carrying on, only now I have jelly on my clothes and coffee spilled all over my paper.

Should I have offered to buy him ice cream instead?

Unless I'm misunderstanding, you did those things sort of passively. I mean, the waitress and the manager, obviously, didn't give a shit about it. Certainly not excusable, but I'm not really surprised.

Saying things out loud, but not directly confronting the parents, is where this whole situation is a problem for me.

I get being pissed and trying to enjoy breakfast and all that, but why didn't you say to the adults there, "Get your fucking kid under control?" As a directly engaging question, not just throwing it out there hoping they respond.

Asking a 9 year old who is running around like that to stop got you the exactly result you should have expected; nothing.

I know it wasn't hot coffee(since doing that would've been a psycho move), I know he wasn't the Wicked Witch of the West, and all that happy crappy; but it was a kid.

Which, apparently to me and like one other person; is a pretty odd thing to do to a kid.

[Ibanez]

I realize the kid was a little tyrant and all but somehow I'm pretty sure a man in the same scenario wouldn't get away with tossing a glass full of water on a strangers kid in that situation or in this thread for the matter.

[billfish678]

I realize the kid was a little tyrant and all but somehow I'm pretty sure a man in the same scenario wouldn't get away with tossing a glass full of water on a strangers kid in that situation or in this thread for the matter.

Wouldn't bother me in the least if it was a guy that did it.

[Peremensoe]

Unless I'm misunderstanding, you did those things sort of passively. I mean, the waitress and the manager, obviously, didn't give a shit about it. Certainly not excusable, but I'm not really surprised.

Saying things out loud, but not directly confronting the parents, is where this whole situation is a problem for me.

I get being pissed and trying to enjoy breakfast and all that, but why didn't you say to the adults there, "Get your fucking kid under control?"

You are misunderstanding. After lesser efforts have failed,
I get loud and say to the parents, who are ignoring their childrens behavior, "Please control your child!". They turn around and look at me like I am bothering them, doing nothing.

[kittenblue]

That being said, dumping water on a kid, whether or not it's all cutesy and coy, is a pretty messed up thing to do for an adult to do.

Meh. Water is harmless, doesn't stain, easily cleaned up and gets jelly off of things. The kid could easily have spilled it himself, as wild as he was. Granted, you need to be pushed to the brink to do it, but it is effective. I once did it to my own child after a particularly awful few days of her not being reasonable during a hot summer when I was nine months pregnant. In Georgia. With no air conditioning. We both cried afterwards, but by god, she never repeated that awful behavior again. She's 28 now, and I just mentioned it to her a few months ago. She has no memory of it, of course.

[even sven]

Unless I'm misunderstanding, you did those things sort of passively. I mean, the waitress and the manager, obviously, didn't give a shit about it. Certainly not excusable, but I'm not really surprised.

Saying things out loud, but not directly confronting the parents, is where this whole situation is a problem for me.

.......

Which, apparently to me and like one other person; is a pretty odd thing to do to a kid.

I guess this is where I am coming from.

You had a problem. How did you choose to resolve it? Well, you:


Muttered something indirect and non-specific
Sat around watching the problem escalate, letting yourself more and more angry
Glared at people
Tried to get someone else to handle it, failed
Tried to make it the responsibility of someone who's not even in the room
Tried to remove yourself from the situation (the only really effective strategy thus far, which for reasons beyond anyone's control failed)
Staged a one-man unpublicized hunger strike, and act whose significance was no doubt lost everyone, but probably made you feel pretty righteous.
Blew up in a confrontational manner
Finally directly addressed an involved party in a way that identifies the concern and proposes a solution- but inexplicably choosing to do this with the child, who probably wasn't going to change much.
Threw a cup of water on a kid


If you have a problem with someone, especially a stranger in public, your options are generally:

Identify the problem and propose a solution in a non-confrontation but direct way
remove yourself from the situation


As you've learned, sitting around glaring and stewing doesn't make your life better, and the feeling of righteous martyrdom really isn't as awesome as it seems. Throwing a cup of water on a kid because you chose to confront your problems in a passive-agressive manner and let the tension rack up until you were out of control is not cute or reasonable.

Chances are the entire thing could have been solved by, at the beginning of a the meal, saying "Excuse me, I've noticed your children are getting a bit restless. I know this restaurant offers kids crayons with the kids menu...perhaps I could ask the waitress to get you some? It's really sweet seeing a family out together like this, but they are bumping my seat quite a bit. Could you try to keep them in your seating area? I really appreciate that." and perhaps putting in a pre-emptive request to be seated elsewhere. if you misjudged the situation and thought they would go away before it would bother you too much, well that sucks, but that's no excuse for continuing not to deal with it.

[Jackmannii]

I was seated in an end booth. The attached booth in front of me was occupied by a couple and their two semi-feral children. It appeared that they were nearly done (napkins in the plate) so I decided to stay and order rather than walk out. At this point, I figured they would be gone well before my order arrived.A common mistaken assumption.

One of Jackmannii's Laws of Dining Out states that the more obnoxious/loud/clueless/feral child-filled the party at the next table/booth is, the longer it will take to achieve critical mass and exit the restaurant.

This is quite logical when kids are involved, as you are dealing with Short Attention Span Theater, and the uncivilized offspring are provoked into loud shrieking rebellion by their parents dawdling over the remnants of the meal and/or the complexities of settling the bill.

[alphaboi867]

Unless I'm misunderstanding, you did those things sort of passively. I mean, the waitress and the manager, obviously, didn't give a shit about it. Certainly not excusable, but I'm not really surprised...

To be fair it sounds like the waitress did care. She just couldn't actually do anything about it.

[billfish678]

Somebody has been hanging out with Muslims too much lately.

[Magiver]

Story sounds odd to me too.

The response was ridiculously provocative, and could have ended up in a very stupid place.

Otara The child's behavior was ridiculously provocative. He climbed over the bench and spilled the ops coffee all over the place.

[Magiver]

Chances are the entire thing could have been solved by, at the beginning of a the meal, saying "Excuse me, I've noticed your children are getting a bit restless. I know this restaurant offers kids crayons with the kids menu...perhaps I could ask the waitress to get you some? It's really sweet seeing a family out together like this, but they are bumping my seat quite a bit. Could you try to keep them in your seating area? I really appreciate that." and perhaps putting in a pre-emptive request to be seated elsewhere. if you misjudged the situation and thought they would go away before it would bother you too much, well that sucks, but that's no excuse for continuing not to deal with it. To start with, being seated somewhere else wouldn't matter. The children were running amok. And more to the point, your suggested dialogue was nothing but a thinly disguised passive aggressive attempt at humiliating them in public.

[Otara]

The child's behavior was ridiculously provocative. He climbed over the bench and spilled the ops coffee all over the place.

I am aware of the 'he started it' defense, but generally consider that to be a childs defense in these kinds of situations.

Otara

[Rilchiam]

Chances are the entire thing could have been solved by, at the beginning of a the meal, saying "Excuse me, I've noticed your children are getting a bit restless. I know this restaurant offers kids crayons with the kids menu...perhaps I could ask the waitress to get you some? It's really sweet seeing a family out together like this, but they are bumping my seat quite a bit. Could you try to keep them in your seating area? I really appreciate that."

IME, she wouldn't have been able to finish the first sentence of that before the parents would have started screaming and threatening. Unreasonable people do not respond to reason.

I knew you don't live in the real world, sven, but this is way beyond what I would have predicted from you. Just out of curiosity, how would this scenario have played out in Cameroon?

[Eyebrows 0f Doom]

What a shocker. even sven doesn't understand the situation and yet gives us another of her holier-than-thou rants.

[even sven]

Out of curiosity, LurkerInNJ, the parents are obviously the real culprits here. If "tossing water on someone" was a reasonable action given how you were provoked, why didn't you do it to the parents? Wouldn't that make a lot more sense?

Oh, yeah, right, because that would have some balls. You chose instead to "solve" this problem by throwing water on a kid and then lying and saying it wasn't intentional. Way to stand up for yourself there! You're a class act.

IME, she wouldn't have been able to finish the first sentence of that before the parents would have started screaming and threatening. Unreasonable people do not respond to reason.

I knew you don't live in the real world, sven, but this is way beyond what I would have predicted from you. Just out of curiosity, how would this scenario have played out in Cameroon?

Well, at least it'd stand a chance of being effective. If you'll remember the OP, his method basically ruined his meal and left him very angry for a long time. He only got some relief when he finally broke down and chucked a glass of water on someone's kid. Sounds like a textbook "bad way to handle the situation" if you ask me.

And what a great lesson for the kids, eh? "If someone is bothering you, hold it all in until you finally get so angry you commit a minor act of assault on their children, and then avoid responsibility by saying it was an accident! That's the way adults resolve things!"

[aruvqan]

What would Jesus do?

To be perfectly honest, Jesus would have probably given him the period version of a spanking. It may have involved a piece of grape vine as a lash. Spare the rod and spoil the child does NOT mean to not correct them and give them ice cream when they misbehave, it means that if you do not properly raise your children with respect for rules and other people, you will be raising little wild entitlement whore animals.

[jz78817]

The parents were yelling that they deserved a free meal because of what I did, and that I should be arrested, they are calling the cops, they are going to f--- me up and so forth.

they're sociopaths. and unfortunately, they're raising more.

[RickJay]

The story does sound rather.... um, extreme.

[Dangerosa]

See, why aren't there more people like this? Who put forethought into it? Who either 1) bring an extra person to remove them if they get rowdy or 2) actually get up and leave if the kids act up (I was a product of #2 and damned if I didn't learn quickly).


In my experience (parent, but also 'not a fan of disruptive children in a restaurant I'm trying to have a meal in - unless its a McDonald's Playland'), MOST parents do. The ill mannered mouth breathers who don't are really the exception. MOST parents with kids who misbehave regularly avoid restaurants until their kids outgrow the "wild animal" stage of toddlerhood and preschool (which generally happens if the parents don't let their ill behaved brats have privileges like dining out). Those with "generally good" kids who get a surprise USUALLY remove them from the restaurant if things get out of hand (although they might take a few minutes to see if things calm down - carrying a full tantrum, kicking and screaming toddler through a crowded restaurant is a risk in itself - trust me).

The remaining people can be lumped in with other restaurant patrons who impress me with their lack of manners and boorish behavior. Couples who think excessive PDA in a booth is appropriate, loud drunks, people who decide to fight or break up with their significant others in public, people who are foul mouthed, those that cheer for the sports team on the barely visible tv in the restaurant bar, and people who insist on describing their medical procedure over dinner at the next table over. Kids for these people are merely a prop - not even a necessary prop with the exception that they provide a distraction for their OWN boorish behavior.

[jz78817]

The story does sound rather.... um, extreme.

nah, I've seen kids that wild. not that there are all that many, but they're the ones you notice 'cos they're pissing you off. the rest of them you don't notice 'cos they're not pissing you off.

[sisu]

Some people are just crap at being parents. My kids would have been out of there in two seconds but you were on edge the moment you saw the kids, what does that say about you? Maybe you don't like kids much do you?

[Eyebrows 0f Doom]

you were on edge the moment you saw the kids, what does that say about you? Maybe you don't like kids much do you?

Ah, we're gonna get this argument now? Well:

so I say as sweetly as possible "He was screaming he was on fire. What did you expect to happen? I'm a mom! I instinctively threw my water on him."

Try again.

[MsWhatsit]

Try again.

I thought the OP just made that part up on the fly so her explanation to the parents would sound better.

Good story. A little on the extreme side, but good.

[Magiver]

And what a great lesson for the kids, eh? "If someone is bothering you, hold it all in until you finally get so angry you commit a minor act of assault on their children, and then avoid responsibility by saying it was an accident! That's the way adults resolve things!" The lesson for the kids is that they will be spanked (or hosed down) when they misbehave. That a stranger had to teach them this instead of their sperm-donor/incubator guardians is a different story.

If this wasn't a wake-up call for the non-parents in question then nothing is. The op did them a service by pointing out the obvious.

[Magiver]

Some people are just crap at being parents. My kids would have been out of there in two seconds but you were on edge the moment you saw the kids, what does that say about you? Maybe you don't like kids much do you? It says the op can spot monkey-stupid when it presents itself.

[Jackmannii]

I do have sympathy for the OP and recognized the classic stages that such incidents usually progress through:

1) Overlooking the behavior in hopes that the offenders will settle down or go away
2) Administering stern reproving glances that are ignored.
3) Steaming in silence until a blow-up point is reached, and
4) Saying something to the clueless parents which will either be ignored or provoke a nasty confrontation.*

None of the above are conducive to a nice, relaxing meal out.

Tossing water on the obnoxious little turd was a nice touch, if a bit over the top. I would have enjoyed seeing it.

One possible solution to the invisible don't-give-a-damn manager would be to stand up and make an announcement to the adjoining tables, to the effect that since your meal was ruined you'd be seeking a refund and suggesting anyone else who felt that way do the same. That, plus an appropriate complaint to higher management/ownership might be an effective counter to the philosophy that "we don't want to offend families, no matter how sociopathic they are".I knew you don't live in the real world, sven, but this is way beyond what I would have predicted from you. Just out of curiosity, how would this scenario have played out in Cameroon?Inane as her responses were, they're actually better than I expected. I was prepared to hear about how loud unruly children are considered a blessing in Africa, it takes a village to raise a child and that it's a Western affectation to expect a table to oneself in relative peace when eating out. :)


*You never know how a word to the parents will be taken or how it could backfire. Not long after Mrs. J. and I moved to our present community, we got in the habit of eating Sunday breakfast at a local outlet of a coffeehouse chain featuring special coffees and pastry, with soothing classical music on the sound system. One Sunday morning in our section there was Screechina and Hellboy running around and yelling as mom heedlessly dawdled over her breakfast remnants (dad was nowhere in sight). I finally approached her and suggested that she act like a parent and control her children. I was rewarded with a glare, although she did get the brats out of there (and another customer came up and thanked me). It turned out that Mommie was on the medical staff at the hospital I'd started working at and I encountered her in the docs' lounge. :eek:

I think she eventually forgave me.

[Rilchiam]

Out of curiosity, LurkerInNJ, the parents are obviously the real culprits here. If "tossing water on someone" was a reasonable action given how you were provoked, why didn't you do it to the parents? Wouldn't that make a lot more sense?

Oh, yeah, right, because that would have some balls. You chose instead to "solve" this problem by throwing water on a kid and then lying and saying it wasn't intentional. Way to stand up for yourself there! You're a class act.



Well, at least it'd stand a chance of being effective. If you'll remember the OP, his method basically ruined his meal and left him very angry for a long time. He only got some relief when he finally broke down and chucked a glass of water on someone's kid. Sounds like a textbook "bad way to handle the situation" if you ask me.

And what a great lesson for the kids, eh? "If someone is bothering you, hold it all in until you finally get so angry you commit a minor act of assault on their children, and then avoid responsibility by saying it was an accident! That's the way adults resolve things!"

That's not how it went down, and you know it. Trying to maintain some dignity is not being "passive-aggressive." The family in this anecdote forfeited any expectation of their being treated politely when they let the kid behave rudely. And you know equally well that the OP did not "lie" about why she dumped water on the kid. The kid and his family were unreasonably and unbearably obnoxious. I am not going to microanalyze the OP's reactions. We can't all be perfect like you.

[Trubie]

He was screaming that he was on fire. :p

I'm not an agressive person and I had an "oh shit did I really just do that" moment after I did it, but it was an extreme situation.

I'm betting thats the last time this kid climbs over and into someone elses booth though.

I can't help but wonder what part of NJ you're from.

Typical guido behavior. JK ;)

[Muffin]

Things were a lot more civil back in the day when restaurants ground their own hamburger. If a kid got out of line, then into the grinder with him. It kept the restaurants quiet, and the hamburgers inexpensive.

[Magiver]

I'm wondering if the parents did this deliberately to get a free meal. Their behavior is just over the top.

[Rilchiam]

And what a great lesson for the kids, eh? "If someone is bothering you, hold it all in until you finally get so angry you commit a minor act of assault on their children, and then avoid responsibility by saying it was an accident! That's the way adults resolve things!"

The kids were already being taught a bad lesson...but let's not get into that. As far as the OP's actions, methinks it could be taken as a lesson that "If your behavior bothers people enough, they might react in a way you don't like, so perhaps you should think about how your actions affect others."

Magiver, ooh! That crossed my mind too.

[LurkerInNJ]

I thought the OP just made that part up on the fly so her explanation to the parents would sound better.

Correct. I'm not a mom.

[AClockworkMelon]

Did the kid spill your coffee onto your newspaper the first time you told this story?

[LurkerInNJ]

I can't help but wonder what part of NJ you're from.

Typical guido behavior. JK ;)

I'm not from NJ. I was living in NJ at the time I signed up, and I work in NJ. My boyfriend lives in NJ, so I post a lot from NJ, but I am a native NYC girl.

[Peremensoe]

The kid and his family were unreasonably and unbearably obnoxious. I am not going to microanalyze the OP's reactions.

Well, I think the decision to throw water on the kid at that point represented a fair measure of restraint. I expect shoving the kid away with two hands would come off worse, as would jabbing him with the butter knife. I don't know what I would have done in such extremis.

It's just absurd and pathetic that the situation reached such a point.

[LurkerInNJ]

If someone is bothering you, hold it all in until you finally get so angry you commit a minor act of assault on their children, and then avoid responsibility by saying it was an accident! That's the way adults resolve things!"

Sven, what is it when it rains? Attempted murder?

You really have me, and the situation, all wrong.

[Cat Whisperer]

<snip>
Chances are the entire thing could have been solved by, at the beginning of a the meal, saying "Excuse me, I've noticed your children are getting a bit restless. I know this restaurant offers kids crayons with the kids menu...perhaps I could ask the waitress to get you some? It's really sweet seeing a family out together like this, but they are bumping my seat quite a bit. Could you try to keep them in your seating area? I really appreciate that." and perhaps putting in a pre-emptive request to be seated elsewhere. if you misjudged the situation and thought they would go away before it would bother you too much, well that sucks, but that's no excuse for continuing not to deal with it.
This is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard on these boards in a long time. I'm a lot more likely to say something like, "If you don't control your kids, I will."

[LurkerInNJ]

Did the kid spill your coffee onto your newspaper the first time you told this story?


Yes, original post, paragraph 6, line 3.

[Voyager]

Out of curiosity, LurkerInNJ, the parents are obviously the real culprits here. If "tossing water on someone" was a reasonable action given how you were provoked, why didn't you do it to the parents? Wouldn't that make a lot more sense?

Maybe you skimmed over this part of the story?


The boy decides it's time to crash his racecar self into the back of my booth, and fling his crashed racecar self over the back of my seat and into my booth, complete with crashed driver on fire screams. I get loud and say to the parents, who are ignoring their childrens behavior, "Please control your child!". They turn around and look at me like I am bothering them, doing nothing. I decide against physically stopping the boy from climbing in because I'm starting to get more angry than annoyed. The boy is still trying to climb over the back of my booth, screaming that he is on fire, and I say in a do not f--- with me voice "Stop it. Do not climb into my booth. " Boy ignores me. While climbing over, he knocks my coffee onto my Sunday paper and puts his jelly hands on me. I decide to put out his racecar fire with my water. Complete silence. Lady across from me who had been giving me sympathy looks is trying to stifle her laughter.

The parents did not invade her booth. The kid did.

As for gently telling them that their kid is causing a scene, that is like telling a streaker that his zipper is open. it is not like they were going to express surprise at this. And she did try.

[even sven]

Sven, what is it when it rains? Attempted murder?

Would you pour water on an adult who was pissing you off? Why not? One good reason is that they very well could try to create legal consequences. Another is that pouring water on people simply is not a good way to solve disputes. We live in the kind of society where it's not okay for people to express their anger by lobbing drinks at each other.

Of course, a big reason why you don't go pour glasses of water on people who bug you is that they may get upset and fight back. I suspect it's this that was the key factor in your decision. You decided to pour a cup on water on a kid because they were pissing you off, you wanted some sort of revenge, and you knew they had no way to fight back. Then instead of owning up to what you did ("Your kid was crawling all over my booth, so I poured a cup of water on him to try to make him stop") you gave a bullshit excuse.

Classy.

Anyway, I agree that this probably didn't even happen, but if it did I just can't see how pouring a glass of a water on a kid is a victory for the little guy.

[LurkerInNJ]

Some people are just crap at being parents. My kids would have been out of there in two seconds but you were on edge the moment you saw the kids, what does that say about you? Maybe you don't like kids much do you?

I like kids just fine and had no expectations of having a Zen experience in a diner during weekend brunch hours.

A blind and deaf person would have noticed how disruptive these two were, and the only reason I accepted the seating in the first place was because it looked as if they were done eating and getting ready to leave.

[MsWhatsit]

Out of curiosity, and I apologize if this was already mentioned and I missed it, but how did the kid react when you doused him?

[stegon66]

For a board that's generally supportive of service industry drones, I'm surprised at the "asshole manager should have done something" attitude. Done what exactly? Do you think these douchebags would have listened to him? No, they would have thrown a fit and no doubt threatened him with at least the loss of his job. And the actual store manager may not have been there - you're probably talking about some hapless, underpaid shift manager and I can tell you that it's a shitty, stressful job. With the economy the way it is restaurants are cutting back on the help. I'm one of these shift managers but I spend 90% of my time doing production work because the owner is too cheap or just can't afford to hire someone to do it. That drastically reduces my time "on the floor." Of course if you asked the owner he'd say that the production work is second to being on the floor but God forbid that work doesn't get done! And you can forget about non-manager employees picking up the slack - you're lucky if they show up to work at all. So yeah, whoever was in charge probably didn't care all that much. Managers really have very little power I hate to tell you.

That said, the manager on duty should have at least apologized and comped the OP's meal. As for the douchebag parents, well, there really isn't a whole lot the manager could have done. Fortunately incidents like this are relatively rare. (Most of a manager's grief is employee-related.)

[Ladymarmalade]

n/a

[moejoe]

I think the time for solving the problem would have been before you placed your order. If you walk into a restaurant and there are wild feral children, and you think that might ruin your meal, don't sit down anyway and hope it gets better, walk back out and go somewhere else.

It would be great if there were restaurants that didn't allow this kind of nonsense, but the fact is that most do. Keep moving your business to the ones that don't.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

Would you pour water on an adult who was pissing you off?
Gosh, if an adult was screaming and ignored my warnings to stay away and climbed into my seat and started putting their hands all over me, I just might react physically.

And yeah, there would be legal consequences. For that other motherfucker.

Fortunately, children and adults are different, mentally and emotionally and physically. And we treat children and adults differently. So your whole, "What if your aunt had balls, huh? What then, smartypants?" routine is a bit off.

[stegon66]

It would be great if there were restaurants that didn't allow this kind of nonsense, but the fact is that most do.

That's a sad fact. Trust me, there have been times when I would have loved to have told someone to get the hell outta my store. Alas, I'd probably be the one getting the short end of the stick if that happened. Buisness owners are all too eager to kiss the asses of even the rudest customers and it's the polite guests and employees who suffer. Fortunately, as I said, incidents this bad are pretty rare.

[flatlined]

Fortunately, as I said, incidents this bad are pretty rare.

Happily, you are right about this. I like to eat out and I live in the sticks, most of the restrauants are "family" style. I've only seen a couple of incidents this bad.

Once, a man and a woman were getting up to leave and their son (maybe 6) suddenly took off running. He slammed into the waitress who was serving us our drinks and I wore them. The parents took full responsibility. The mother apologized and took her son outside and the father apologized again and wanted to pay for my dry cleaning (jeans and tshirt!), then insisted on paying for my meal. He also handed the waitress some cash. Most parents try their best and sometimes things happen.

Not that this was the case for the OP. Those parents are like dog owners who can't hear their dogs barking at 3 am.

[lindsaybluth]

The remaining people can be lumped in with other restaurant patrons who impress me with their lack of manners and boorish behavior. Couples who think excessive PDA in a booth is appropriate, loud drunks, people who decide to fight or break up with their significant others in public, people who are foul mouthed, those that cheer for the sports team on the barely visible tv in the restaurant bar, and people who insist on describing their medical procedure over dinner at the next table over. Kids for these people are merely a prop - not even a necessary prop with the exception that they provide a distraction for their OWN boorish behavior.

I completely disagree on the lumping in part. Loud drunks and obnoxious people are far more palatable than children running or screaming. You've always struck me as a very good, evenhanded parent. I think you are the exception, not the rule. You've cited people taking their kids away; I rarely see that. I see more of this, from a restaurant I reviewed in January (this is from a Yelp post I did), and LurkerinNJ, you'll enjoy this:

"The atmosphere was atrocious. A family in the table to my left and in front let their child (6 or 7, mind you) take off his shoes and walk around barefoot. He then ground his heel into the carpet - with a piece of chicken in between. He swiped a cloth napkin from an empty table and rubbed it all over his feet. I audibly gasped, but his obese mother couldn't hear me or ignored me. Then she threatened to take each of their Kindles away if they didn't shut up. The boy was eating with salad tongs instead of a fork all night long."

I notice this behavior moreso in the past 2 years. It's like people aren't getting babysitters anymore, probably because of the economy. I used to enjoy a few "family" establishments; now I try not to go to places that stock high chairs. Places where the average entree starts $15 and tiny ethnic places usually fit the bill.

[Rachellelogram]

Sven, the reason water was chosen was because the childcar was on fire. Makes logical sense to me.

If I were in that situation I would have stood up, put my hands on the child, walked him forcibly (not painfully, but firmly) to the front door, opened it, and put him outside. Then I would have written my phone number down on a piece of paper and told the parents they'd be paying to replace my ruined clothing, or hearing from an attorney if they refused. Then I would have followed them out to their car and taken down the license plate number.

I think her reaction was extraordinarily reasonable.

[AshenLady]

You cannot even give a kid a swat on the behind, without putting yourself at risk of being arrested for child abuse. The kids are aware of this at a young age, and when out in public, act up even more.

[MsWhatsit]

You don't see people taking their kids away because a lot of the time, they're already gone before their kids had a chance to disturb you. The kid running around the table yelling "race car on fire!" and diving into your booth gets your attention. The three families that aren't even in the restaurant anymore because Junior was having a bad night or throwing a temper tantrum, don't, because they're gone.

I'll also go ahead and put on my flak jacket and ask what the mother's obesity had to do with that anecdote, lindsay.

[Fiveyearlurker]

The story does sound rather.... um, extreme.

Is that a euphemism for "made up"?

[LurkerInNJ]

Out of curiosity, and I apologize if this was already mentioned and I missed it, but how did the kid react when you doused him?

Instant quiet. He didn't say a word, just stared at me. The sudden silence is what finally captured his parents undivided attention.

[flatlined]

[QUOTE=MsWhatsit;13441950]You don't see people taking their kids away because a lot of the time, they're already gone before their kids had a chance to disturb you. [QUOTE]

I do notice. I've actually followed several people outside to tell them thank you for being so considerate. I agree with your point, tho. We only remember the bad ones.

[LurkerInNJ]

Great video from A Current Affair version of What Would You do? where child actors are instructed to go feral in a restaurant.

http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/the-social-experiment-kids-ruining-restaurants/xs83kzp

[lindsaybluth]

I'll also go ahead and put on my flak jacket and ask what the mother's obesity had to do with that anecdote, lindsay.

Too lazy to get up and corral him.

Though, to be entirely fair, I didn't have time to ask her if she was big boned or if she was on any medication that made her more than 70 pounds overweight.

[MsWhatsit]

Instant quiet. He didn't say a word, just stared at me. The sudden silence is what finally captured his parents undivided attention.

I am totally unsurprised. I would have voted for either this, or delighted laughter that you were playing along with his game.

See, there ARE big differences between kids and adults, and one of them, IMO, is that if you have an altercation with an adult and toss a drink of water in his face, you're liable to get punched in return, or at least to have the cops called on you. Do it to a kid as the OP did, and the kid is going to likely shrug it off. I mean, he did say he was on fire. It only makes sense.

[MsWhatsit]

Too lazy to get up and corral him.

Though, to be entirely fair, I didn't have time to ask her if she was big boned or if she was on any medication that made her more than 70 pounds overweight.

C-. I know plenty of skinny lazy parents. You could try to sell us on, "Fat deposits were blocking her ear canals," though.

[Ibanez]

<snip>If I were in that situation I would have stood up, put my hands on the child, walked him forcibly (not painfully, but firmly) to the front door, opened it, and put him outside.

Umm... ya I don't think that would of went over well if you did that, even if you're a women.

[lindsaybluth]

That's not even in the top 5 of most hilarious excuses for being fat on this board.

Though I did honestly laugh out loud :)

[Magiver]

Would you pour water on an adult who was pissing you off? . If an adult crawled over my seat and spilled my coffee I'd knock him on his ass.

[Rachellelogram]

excuses for being fat on this board.
You may be surprised to hear this, but nobody has to justify their body size to a stranger. Ever. Whether they're fat or thin, lazy or active. Who gives a shite?

My mom weighed over 250 pounds after her 2nd (very, very rough) pregnancy and still was very active with me and my slightly-younger sister ("Irish twins") as kids. We weren't little uncontrolled hellions, she would have spanked our butts like we deserved if we'd acted like flaming childcars in a restaurant.

fuck's sake

[alphaboi867]

Gosh, if an adult was screaming and ignored my warnings to stay away and climbed into my seat and started putting their hands all over me, I just might react physically...

Yeah, if an adult did that to me I probally would've grabed one the knives and stabbed him or smashed a glass against him. The parents should be glad all that happened to their brat was he got a little wet.

[BaneSidhe]

We had to put up with that BS a couple months ago when daHubby and I went to a steakhouse. Between the feral children and the table full of completely blotzo, foul-mouthed idiots that were sitting right near us, I wasn't sure if I wanted to curl up under the table and cry, or grab the manager and have everyone thrown out.

How bloody hard is it to teach kids manners? You teach a puppy not to puddle on the carpet, why can't you teach a child to behave in public?

[madmonk28]

My sister will wait for a kid who is running wild in public to be away from the parent, and then she will look the kid in the eye and in a low voice say, "hey kid, shutup." Usually, the kid's eyes get as big as sauces and s/he goes and stands next to his parents, too afraid to do anything else. God, I love my sister.

[HazelNutCoffee]

I would have laughed my ass off if I'd witnessed the OP. God knows how many times I've been tempted to do the exact same thing.

My mom is perfect at quelling kids with a mere look, but she's been a teacher for 30 years, so she's had a lot of practice.

[kenobi 65]

My mom is perfect at quelling kids with a mere look, but she's been a teacher for 30 years, so she's had a lot of practice.

My wife's been teaching for 20 years; she has the same ability. We call the look "Teacher Face": :mad:
:D

[Hippy Hollow]

Much as I empathize with the OP's situation, I think it could have been handled far better. I would have moved elsewhere or left, or even got up and left the restaurant without paying. I'd be only too happy to explain to the manager why.

I think it's extremely poor form to douse a kid, especially not your kid, with water. The story ends up fine, but what if the kid slipped and fell? The parents seem fairly unreasonable, so you may have earned yourself an ass kicking or worse.

I'm irked by badly behaved youngsters too, but I think avoidance is best.

[CanvasShoes]

Parent, and grandparent here. I adore this! My own darling little grandkid had a wee bit of the "pwecious snowfwake" upbringing until they moved in with me. Grandkid is learning some manners, and my own pwecious snowfwake (who was NOT raised that way) is learning that it won't crush their tiny spirits into oblivion if you make them mind their manners.

I myself was applauded by a group of fellow customers when I hauled my son (then threeish, now 19) out of a public place after he started having a major meltdown. Osh kosh b'gosh's are Awesome, those shoulder straps make the kid into a veritable toddler totebag! :D

[Guinastasia]

I think it's extremely poor form to douse a kid, especially not your kid, with water. The story ends up fine, but what if the kid slipped and fell? The parents seem fairly unreasonable, so you may have earned yourself an ass kicking or worse.



He would probably have fallen sooner or later anyways.


even sven, would I pour water on adult? If they were acting the same way, hell yeah.

[Voyager]

I think it's extremely poor form to douse a kid, especially not your kid, with water. The story ends up fine, but what if the kid slipped and fell? The parents seem fairly unreasonable, so you may have earned yourself an ass kicking or worse.

What if the kid collided with a waitress and got hot coffee spilled all over him? Lurker may have saved his pwecious little life. And I doubt there was much chance of him slipping on the water considering he was in her booth.

[Gleena]

Yup, you got it. "Well, you didn't have to THROW WATER on them!" "Maybe they both have Asperger's!" "Maybe the whole family has Asperger's!"

My kid does have AS, but I promise you he did not behave like that and I would not allow him to behave like that. Gah. Fuck using AS as an excuse.

Also, use of water in this instance = hilarious!

[madmonk28]

I agree you shouldn't have thrown water in the child's face, but where are you going to get a cup of acid at a Denny's?

[aruvqan]

Would you pour water on an adult who was pissing you off? Why not? One good reason is that they very well could try to create legal consequences. Another is that pouring water on people simply is not a good way to solve disputes. We live in the kind of society where it's not okay for people to express their anger by lobbing drinks at each other.
.

I have poured drinks on men portuning me who would not take no for an answer, I have pushed them away physically when they laid hands on me, I have punched them out for touching me more intimately and I have kneecapped them with steel toed shoes for a full on grope.

Water on a sprog is nothing.

[EvilTOJ]

Pffft I'll tell you what you did wrong. Water is NOT what you use for a car fire. You use a fire extinguisher.

I agree you shouldn't have thrown water in the child's face, but where are you going to get a cup of acid at a Denny's?

You order the coffee! Oh wait....

[Dangerosa]

I completely disagree on the lumping in part. Loud drunks and obnoxious people are far more palatable than children running or screaming. You've always struck me as a very good, evenhanded parent. I think you are the exception, not the rule. You've cited people taking their kids away; I rarely see that. I see more of this, from a restaurant I reviewed in January (this is from a Yelp post I did), and LurkerinNJ, you'll enjoy this:
.


You don't see it much - people pulling their kids out. It honestly happened TWICE in the four years I had kids the age prone to it - and that seems pretty normal for normal families I know.

Now, the two times I did it it WAS highly disruptive to the other diners. Sorry about that. There is really no way to pull a misbehaving child through a restaurant without exposing everyone in the restaurant to the misbehavior. And so most parents don't do it if the discipline will cause an escalation and disturb more people - you have to get to DefCon 4 before removing them is appropriate. Which, at that point, is at least screaming at the top of their lungs. Unfortunately for the other diners, taping your kids mouth with duct tape and twist tying their arms and legs to remove them from a restaurant is seen as abuse by CPS.

And people have different opinions. I'd rather put up with misbehaving kids myself than someone yelling at a TV. And I HATE adults who use profanity in public.

[Hippy Hollow]

What if the kid collided with a waitress and got hot coffee spilled all over him? Lurker may have saved his pwecious little life. And I doubt there was much chance of him slipping on the water considering he was in her booth.

The difference, of course, is that any liability for injury would not be the OP's.

And I have a hard time believing that so many people would douse a child, or an adult, if they were in the same situation. What's so hard about going somewhere else?

I'm almost forty, have been in numerous scuffles and altercations, but I can't ever recall dousing someone, child or adult, with water (unless we're counting a day at the beach or something).

Again, the kid and the parents were obnoxious. But I put the responsibility primarily on the parents. If a dousee was deserving it would be them, and I certainly don't advise getting into fights with people with a disregard for societal rules and convention. It just doesn't seem worth the risk when there's other places to buy coffee, read a paper, etc.

The business didn't learn anything from this because they still got the OP's money. If a number of customers left after these people showed up that would reinforce the idea.

[Cheesesteak]

For a board that's generally supportive of service industry drones, I'm surprised at the "asshole manager should have done something" attitude. Done what exactly? Something other than sit in his office ignoring the disturbance in his restaurant, after telling the staff that they are not allowed to deal with disturbances. When you take the job of manager, this is part of the job, dealing with problems. At a minimum, he could act as a buffer, or an additional calm adult figure to help keep the kids in line while the parents get their act together.

[I Love Me, Vol. I]

these are the kinds of people who put more consideration into what movie they want to go out to see than they do about being parents.

Yup. And usually they consider seeing the movie that is the most inappropriate film for kids that they can find. And then they bring their kids. Therefore, fucking it up for everyone trying to watch it like a normal, considerate human.

Why? Why do they do this? Not out of pure malevolent spite, I think. They are not clever enough for that. Nope, it's merely out of utter cluelessness. Thus, their spawn grow up the same way, with the same lack of manners--no, lack of common sense-- and at best, they gather intense scorn wherever they go; at worst, they get multiple boots kick up their multiple asses. Multiple times.

And the beat goes on.

Oh! yeah... and they vote, too!

We ARE fucked.

[Rushgeekgirl]

Sadly, it's a true story.

If I were to make up a story, it would be a hell of a lot better than I went out to a diner for breakfast after the gym and there were these two misbehaving kids with parents who didn't care. It would have involved me setting the little shit on fire and using Ninja moves on the parents.

Actually yours would be a better made-up story because it's got that hint of realism going for it. It could have been made up. I've lived through several events like this, with details so bizarre they do almost sound made up.

And now I'll be the jerk and say I think what you did was wrong. It didn't diffuse the situation, you still suffered through a miserable meal, and your retaliation was revenge toward the child when it should have been the parents. And you still had to pay for your miserable meal. Sadly there probably would have been no satisfying workable response.

But it made for an awesome story!

[Lynn Bodoni]

Something other than sit in his office ignoring the disturbance in his restaurant, after telling the staff that they are not allowed to deal with disturbances. When you take the job of manager, this is part of the job, dealing with problems. At a minimum, he could act as a buffer, or an additional calm adult figure to help keep the kids in line while the parents get their act together. If the manager is telling the staff that they cannot do anything about a problem, but the manager himself is hiding in the office, that's not good management. The problem is NOT being dealt with. Either the manager needs to allow his staff to take care of most ordinary problems (and kids acting up in public is a very ordinary problem) or he needs to step up and deal with problems himself.

I go out to Sunday lunch with a friend at least every other week. There are quite a few restaurants that we no longer go to because of kids running around loose. Now, having kids acting up in a restaurant can happen in almost any eatery, but if it happens a lot, then the staff and/or management are not controlling the environment.

[MeanOldLady]

As you've learned, sitting around glaring and stewing doesn't make your life better, and the feeling of righteous martyrdom really isn't as awesome as it seems. Throwing a cup of water on a kid because you chose to confront your problems in a passive-agressive manner and let the tension rack up until you were out of control is not cute or reasonable.Nice spin. You know, not everyone pulls out the big guns on every annoyance right away. Most people do not hear an unruly child in a restaurant, and immediately demand that the child be silenced, while documenting the entire ordeal, with a lawyer on speed dial. It's just not that serious. Most people will ignore it, because while annoying, it's a minor inconvenience that will soon end, and the hassle of being the Unyielding Defender of Silence isn't worth it. Just stay put for a few minutes, and all will be well. If, however, it becomes clear that the ruckus will be ongoing and has progressed from normal loud child shenanigans into unreasonably disruptive obnoxiousness, then the customer should say something to the parent, instead of just waiting for it to end, which, as I'm sure you've read, is what happened.

If I were in that situation I would have stood up, put my hands on the child, walked him forcibly (not painfully, but firmly) to the front door, opened it, and put him outside. Then I would have written my phone number down on a piece of paper and told the parents they'd be paying to replace my ruined clothing, or hearing from an attorney if they refused. Then I would have followed them out to their car and taken down the license plate number.

I think her reaction was extraordinarily reasonable.LOL. Well aren't you tough, but fair. You would not have done this, and are entirely full of shit.

Is that a euphemism for "made up"?Yes, but I'm going to give Lurker the benefit of the doubt, because I love this story so much.

My wife's been teaching for 20 years; she has the same ability. We call the look "Teacher Face": :mad:
:D"Teacher Face." I love it.

[RTFirefly]

For a board that's generally supportive of service industry drones, I'm surprised at the "asshole manager should have done something" attitude. Done what exactly? Told them, "you're done with your meal (which was the case, remember - napkins already on the plates when the OP arrived, check and boxed leftovers within a few minutes afterwards), one of you please proceed to the cash register at the front of the store to pay for your meal, and the other please escort your children out of the restaurant." If the parents gave the manager any backtalk, that would be the time to play the trespassing card: "if you don't move promptly and expeditiously towards the register and the exit, I will regard you as trespassers and will have one of my staff call the police."

[eno801]

My mother used this particular method on unusually unruly kids. She would pull them to the to the side with a pinch on the upper arm. This woman's hand strength is unbelievable, ask me how I know. She would then get in their face and tell them to stop it in a low whisper. and then send them off with a " I dare you to tell your parents". She would probably get arrested nowadays, lol. this was the 70's though. Sometimes I run into one of the kids she had done this to at party or something years later, and they all said she scared the fuck out of them so they stopped. None ever held a grudge.

[CrazyCatLady]

For a board that's generally supportive of service industry drones, I'm surprised at the "asshole manager should have done something" attitude. Done what exactly?

At the very, very least, come out and told me that there was dick-all he could do about the situation and apologize.

At which point I would get up and leave without paying, and never, ever, ever come back. There are too many places to eat to waste my time and money patronizing a place where the alleged manager is impotent to actually, ya know, manage the dining room.

[Voyager]

The difference, of course, is that any liability for injury would not be the OP's.

But the manager ignored the problem. In any case the water was not to stop the kid from running around, it was to inform the kid that climbing into someone elses booth was not acceptable. Which it did. Keeping the kid from potential injury was a useful side effect.

And I have a hard time believing that so many people would douse a child, or an adult, if they were in the same situation. What's so hard about going somewhere else?

All covered in the OP and subsequent posts. They were in the middle of paying - so why leave.?

I'm almost forty, have been in numerous scuffles and altercations, but I can't ever recall dousing someone, child or adult, with water (unless we're counting a day at the beach or something).

I haven't either. But as a father I've got make kids behave resources women without kids don't have. I never hit my kids but I have grabbed them and held them tight when they were out of control - never in public, I'm happy to say.

Again, the kid and the parents were obnoxious. But I put the responsibility primarily on the parents. If a dousee was deserving it would be them, and I certainly don't advise getting into fights with people with a disregard for societal rules and convention. It just doesn't seem worth the risk when there's other places to buy coffee, read a paper, etc.

If you've ever trained a dog, you know that punishing the dog for an infraction on a walk when you get home is useless. The water was a direct and immediate response to the kid's misbehavior, and it was effective. Unless the kids is a sociopath he knew he was wrong; he just had to be shocked back into control. Yeah, the parents did abdicated their duties, but the goal was not to give child rearing advice, but to get the kid away.

The business didn't learn anything from this because they still got the OP's money. If a number of customers left after these people showed up that would reinforce the idea.
Maybe, but it would never be noticed. I definitely think that complaining to corporate about the situation and the manager would be far more useful. A mass walkout, maybe. I'm not a big fan of appeasement myself.
I'd have been sore tempted to restrain the kid and march him to his parents. (Not outside, what if he got run over?) If they threatened me, I'd threaten to charge the kid with assault. But that was not a realistic option for the OP, and her way was probably better.

[Clothahump]

He was screaming that he was on fire. :p

I'm not an agressive person and I had an "oh shit did I really just do that" moment after I did it, but it was an extreme situation.

I'm betting thats the last time this kid climbs over and into someone elses booth though.

One trains cats and dogs to not pee on the carpet by dousing them with water. They manage to learn. Somehow, though, I don't think that kid will.

[LurkerInNJ]

I think it's extremely poor form to douse a kid, especially not your kid, with water. The story ends up fine, but what if the kid slipped and fell?

Slipped and fell out of my booth?

[lindsaybluth]

If I were in that situation I would have stood up, put my hands on the child, walked him forcibly (not painfully, but firmly) to the front door, opened it, and put him outside. Then I would have written my phone number down on a piece of paper and told the parents they'd be paying to replace my ruined clothing, or hearing from an attorney if they refused. Then I would have followed them out to their car and taken down the license plate number.

LOL. Well aren't you tough, but fair. You would not have done this, and are entirely full of shit.

Wait, so you're telling me she won't be taken seriously on her threat to sue for her $50 outfit? That just sounds preposterous.

[mckall]

If someone threatened to sue me for 50 bucks, I'd tell them I'll be waiting with bated breath for the letter from their attorney.

How many people actually go out of their way for a $50 dollar lawsuit? I mean, in reality?

I suppose the parents could counter-claim for negligence of a child, since he was put outside unattended or possibly child endangerment?

I have to say I'm totally blown away by the number of people that would actually touch someone else's kid, whether to move them outside a restaurant or pinch their arms or what have you.

I just don't believe there are that many vigilantes amongst the SDMB.

[MsWhatsit]

I will touch someone else's kid in the following hypothetical circumstances:

1. The kid is about to do something very dangerous, such as run into traffic.
2. The kid is harming or about to harm one of my own kids.
3. The kid is harassing me or in my personal space and has ignored requests to knock it off.

Situation 1 and 2 have actually happened to me in the past. Situation 3 has not. I have never run into a situation where using the "mom voice" on a kid or group of kids has not been enough to get them knock it off and clear out. If I did, I would readily pick the kid up and remove him from my booth or whatever.

Regarding this whole "lawsuit for a ruined suit" thing, I worked in a Mexican restaurant when I was a teenager, and once we did have a customer threaten to sue us if we didn't cover the cost of her dry-cleaning after a waitress accidentally spilled a margarita on her coat. The manager comped her dinner and she was happy with that. (I thought about awesomizing this anecdote a little bit by adding a little kid that was running around the restaurant and then crashed into the waitress, making her spill an entire tray of margaritas into the woman's lap, but no, this thread is sufficiently awesome already and does not need an additional awesome infusion.)

[Labrador Deceiver]

I'm always amazed at the number of people who think they need to retain an attorney for a visit to small claims court. They're usually flat broke, which makes it even more hilarious.

"Wait, you won't take my $50 case on a contingency basis??"

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

"Teacher Face." I love it.
My wife has asked to see my teacher face for years, and I've had to tell her that I can't produce it on demand, so she was disappointed (the best I could do was my "angry emu face").

Until I had my sister and her (truly wonderful) kids over for brunch. After he finished eating, the four year old went into the living room to play. He found a ball, and being four, didn't think about what he was doing: he threw it. And it went bounding across the dining room table. And I whipped my head around.

My wife got to see my teacher face. She said it scared her.

I was pleased.

[Cheesesteak]

I wish I had a teacher face. I get angry with my 3yo and he just laughs at the funny face daddy's making.

[mckall]

I get one and two, but that's not what I was talking about. Obviously a danger to oneself or others is clearly, and legally, allowed to be prevented.

I just don't see how any cop or court in the world would side with an adult who moved a kid outside, or pinched their arms, or what not for harassing you or your personal space.

This is not your home, it's a restaurant. I get the anger towards the manager, but again; I don't think a person can just walk out without paying the tab.

A lot of people would like to do those things, but I think the reality of those occurrences are quite rare.

[runner pat]

I'm always amazed at the number of people who think they need to retain an attorney for a visit to small claims court. They're usually flat broke, which makes it even more hilarious.

"Wait, you won't take my $50 case on a contingency basis??"

Slacker. You could make millions. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearson_v._Chung)

[overlyverbose]

I'm late to the party, but I wanted to say that I love the OP's response to the annoying kid. My son hasn't acted up in a restaurant so much that we've had to physically remove him, though I have had to do a fireman's carry out of Target, the grocery store and a Borders. The OP's story makes me wish that a fountain were handy then.

[limegreen]

I, too, have the Teacher Face, although at our house it's called The Evil Eye. After 20 years of teaching, I wouldn't have hesitated about throwing water on the kid. He won't die. I probably would have growled at him something about getting away from me NOW. Kids that I do that too tend to slink back to their parental units with their thumbs in their mouth. Good times.

[lindsaybluth]

I just don't see how any cop or court in the world would side with an adult who moved a kid outside, or pinched their arms, or what not for harassing you or your personal space.

We're talking about a person who gets into "bathroom mode" and sulks and is depressed when her roommate hops in the shower before her.

[stegon66]

At the very, very least, come out and told me that there was dick-all he could do about the situation and apologize.

Yes, you're right and I said as much.

As for managers "sitting in their offices," I doubt that happens much. I WISH I had time to sit down. As it is, out of a nine hour shift I get to sit down maybe ten minutes (to fill out paperwork) and I have to be out front when I'm doing that. Other than that I'm unfortunately doing grunt work, not on the floor where I should be. Sucks but that's the way it is.

As for kicking people out, only in the most extreme circumstances can you do that.

[mckall]

We're talking about a person who gets into "bathroom mode" and sulks and is depressed when her roommate hops in the shower before her.

Fair enough.

I'm really surprised by the number of "I'LL FILE A LAWSUIT!" threats there are in a thread about a kid knocking food on your clothes. Work out clothes no less.

If the waitress spilled the jelly or coffee or whatever, would you sue the restaurant?

[MeanOldLady]

Once a clumsy waitress spilled some soup on me, and I sued the shit out of her and the entire establishment. Those Levi's weren't just going to replace themselves! I called my attorney, dragged the entire staff into small claims court, and was able to win the replacement cost of my used jeans, along with court costs, attorney's fees, and punitive damages for gross negligence. Her wages are garnished every month, and that establishment is no longer in business.

Don't fuck with me.

[Peremensoe]

For a board that's generally supportive of service industry drones, I'm surprised at the "asshole manager should have done something" attitude. Done what exactly?

Ordered the troublemakers to leave, of course. And then stood there with folded arms until they did.

Do you think these douchebags would have listened to him? No, they would have thrown a fit and no doubt threatened him with at least the loss of his job.

So? They couldn't have followed through on such threats.

If necessary (if they refuse to leave, and thus become trespassers), the manager should call the police.

And the actual store manager may not have been there - you're probably talking about some hapless, underpaid shift manager...

If the shift manager is only "manager" there, he's the manager. Customers' expectations of him are legitimately the same as of any other kind of manager.

If you have a problem with that, talk to your boss, or quit. If you accept the job, damn straight I expect you to do the job.

I'm really surprised by the number of "I'LL FILE A LAWSUIT!" threats there are in a thread about a kid knocking food on your clothes.

I think there was just one.

Then I would have written my phone number down on a piece of paper and told the parents they'd be paying to replace my ruined clothing, or hearing from an attorney if they refused.

If the waitress spilled the jelly or coffee or whatever, would you sue the restaurant?

No. But my expectation would be that the store manager would offer to make amends. If he didn't, I'd write a letter of complaint to someone above him, and expect redress that way. Properly executed complaint letters over minor (but not immaterial) damages have a very good success rate.

[Freudian Slit]

Wait, so you're telling me she won't be taken seriously on her threat to sue for her $50 outfit? That just sounds preposterous.

So that's what a polyester mumu goes for these days, eh?

[LurkerInNJ]

And now I'll be the jerk and say I think what you did was wrong. It didn't diffuse the situation, you still suffered through a miserable meal, and your retaliation was revenge toward the child when it should have been the parents. And you still had to pay for your miserable meal. Sadly there probably would have been no satisfying workable response.

I really thought about what I did later on that evening, and while I doubt I will start carrying around a fire hose so I can let loose on unruly children 1963 Birmingham style, I really don't regret what I did. When he hauled himself over the back of my booth and in next to me, it wasn't just the last straw, he had crossed the line. I wan't meek in telling him to stop; he, his parents and other patrons heard me quite clearly. The fault for his behavior lies with his parents, but the water worked as far as putting a stop to what he was doing to me at that moment. If he hadn't been screaming about his racecar driver crash fire, dousing him probably wouldn't have crossed my mind.

Up until that point where he got in the booth, I was annoyed but not angry. I wasn't sitting there thinking of how to get back at the kid or his parents, I was trying to block the kid out and read my paper and praying they would hurry up leave already. When you live in a city, it's easier to learn how to block things out. If you don't, you will drive yourself crazy. This family was way over the block it out until they go category.

I wasn't eating in a 5 star restaurant. It was a local diner. Yes, I expected the manager to do something, but there is no corporate office to contact and I'm presuming that family owned and family operated means he is the owner's nephew or something. I just don't see getting anything but frustrated by hounding the diner. Getting comped in a diner around here isn't a normal thing. Yes, it would have been nice if I got something for free, but I didn't and I'm not going to devote a week of my time to try and get a free bowl of oatmeal and some toast. When the waitress told me he was "busy", I thought she meant he was in the bathroom. I didn't think he was ignoring the complaints, but I do think that now. I was fully expecting him to show up and handle the situation. That's part of his job.

My meal wasn't miserable, after they left anyway, lol. It was coffee, whole wheat toast and oatmeal. Under $10. It was easier to stay and eat after they left than to walk to another newstand, get another paper and walk to another diner in the cold and ice. Too much effort to relocate myself at that point. It was over and done, so eat, pay and go and get on to other things. I didn't want to turn getting breakfast into an all day adventure, I had other things I had to do. If I let every little thing that ever happens ruin my day, I'd have few happy days. Not that this was so little, but I have the ability to get over things that are not a regular part of my life or a recurring situation are move on. Paying or not paying wasn't a personal challenge to my ego.

I was wearing gym clothes, so while the jelly hands on me were unacceptable, it's not the worst thing that has ever made it on to my velour sweats by far.

[stegon66]

If you have a problem with that, talk to your boss, or quit. If you accept the job, damn straight I expect you to do the job.

I love that response. "Just get another job." Ain't that easy these days. Trust me, if I found a better opportunity I'd take it. Right now it's paying the bills and that's what matters the most.

As I said before, part of the problem is that we're not really free to do our job - we're stuck doing so much other shit that it's pretty much impossible to be out on the floor at all times. It's probably different with restaurants that have more overhead and can afford more labor, but in my case, well, that's not the case. Don't know what the case was with the OP.

And I didn't so much accept my managerial position as get forced into it. It was either that or lose what paltry benefits I had. :rolleyes: (Long story.)

But I will, as I have before, state that the OP's meal should have been comped along with an apology. That was most certainly a faux pas on whoever was in charge. There is unfortunately not much more that could have been done though. It's easy to talk shit about how you'd throw 'em out and call the police but really, get real. :dubious:

[alphaboi867]

...If the waitress spilled the jelly or coffee or whatever, would you sue the restaurant?

Not unless I was severly burned (& even then only if the restaurant didn't pay my medical bills), but I would expect my meal to be comped.

[Peremensoe]

It was a local diner. Yes, I expected the manager to do something, but there is no corporate office to contact and I'm presuming that family owned and family operated means he is the owner's nephew or something. I just don't see getting anything but frustrated by hounding the diner.

You don't need to "hound" them. Just let them know what happened in their place of business. If I was the primary owner of such an establishment, you better believe I'd want to know if such things were going on. As it stands, nephew is hurting my business.

[Voyager]

I wasn't eating in a 5 star restaurant. It was a local diner. Yes, I expected the manager to do something, but there is no corporate office to contact and I'm presuming that family owned and family operated means he is the owner's nephew or something. I just don't see getting anything but frustrated by hounding the diner. Getting comped in a diner around here isn't a normal thing. Yes, it would have been nice if I got something for free, but I didn't and I'm not going to devote a week of my time to try and get a free bowl of oatmeal and some toast. When the waitress told me he was "busy", I thought she meant he was in the bathroom. I didn't think he was ignoring the complaints, but I do think that now. I was fully expecting him to show up and handle the situation. That's part of his job.

Ah, that type of diner.I'm from NY also, used to live around Princeton, and my daughter now lives around Edison, so I know exactly what you mean. I wonder if they look at their on-line reviews or have a website. Dinging management for not controlling patrons, while saying some nice things, might be helpful if only to get the owner to develop a policy about this kind of thing.

[Spoons]

If someone threatened to sue me for 50 bucks, I'd tell them I'll be waiting with bated breath for the letter from their attorney.

How many people actually go out of their way for a $50 dollar lawsuit? I mean, in reality?Well, I've had a few such enquiries. No, I don't take their cases. I don't say as much, but I tell them I'll be glad to act for a huge (compared to $50) retainer. And no, I won't work on contingency in their matter. That usually dissuades them from hiring a lawyer. Well, from hiring me, anyway.

[cochrane]

I was wearing gym clothes, so while the jelly hands on me were unacceptable, it's not the worst thing that has ever made it on to my velour sweats by far.There's your problem. You were wearing sweatpants IN PUBLIC! :D

Just kidding. I'm making fun of all the best-dressed-in-the-supermarket types who think wearing sweatpants while running errands is some kind of fashion faux pas. Personally, I thought your "putting the fire out" response to the situation was awesome. I'm glad you didn't let the clueless parents and apathetic manager ruin your day.

[Rilchiam]

My mother used this particular method on unusually unruly kids. She would pull them to the to the side with a pinch on the upper arm. This woman's hand strength is unbelievable, ask me how I know. She would then get in their face and tell them to stop it in a low whisper. and then send them off with a " I dare you to tell your parents".

That last bit? Not necessary. Sounds like she enjoyed it a bit too much.

[Dangerosa]

Just as an alternative to throwing water on the kid....

"Excuse me ma'm? Can you please remove your son. You see, I'm undergoing treatment for being sexually attracted to children and having him here in my booth is...tempting."

(Note, I wouldn't recommend actually DOING this, but I wouldn't have dumped water on the kid either. I would have spoken to the manager and when it wasn't resolved, left the restaurant informing the manager he would be comping whatever I had already ordered.)

[RTFirefly]

I wish I had a teacher face. I get angry with my 3yo and he just laughs at the funny face daddy's making.Yeah, I have the same problem with my three year old.

Fortunately, he doesn't laugh at a time-out.

[Lust4Life]

The parents are scum and their kids will almost certainly grow up to be scum themselves.

[RTFirefly]

As for kicking people out, only in the most extreme circumstances can you do that. Is the situation described in the OP not one of those "most extreme circumstances"? Sure sounds like it to me. Complaints from three different customers, kids running all over the place, including diving into the next booth and spilling that customer's coffee all over the table...it damned sure seems to be a situation that, at the very minimum, calls for the manager's personal attention, regardless of what she feels she can do.

And I'd say the bar for kicking the customer out is considerably lower, once they've finished their meal and have been given the check. I've been in restaurants where customers whose behavior is perfectly civilized have been gently pressured by restaurant staff to vacate their table because they're done, the restaurant is full, and people are waiting to sit down.

A customer who is wreaking havoc and ruining other customers' dining experiences after they've gotten the check can certainly be hustled out of there. If you're not going to do it then, then when are you going to do it, short of someone engaging in fisticuffs in the dining area?

[billfish678]

Just wanta make a point.

Walking out (even for good reason) without paying can get you charged with theft/robbery/whatever the exact name of the charge is. Raise holy hell if you think you should be comped, but do not walk out without paying. I know someone who spent a night in jail for that.

[norinew]

Yeah, I have the same problem with my three year old.

Fortunately, he doesn't laugh at a time-out.
Well, I don't have a 'teacher face', so I developed a 'Mom voice'; out in public with my kids (and since my youngest is 11, this isn't necessary so much anymore, but when they were young. . .) if they were starting to act up, I'd give them a warning; if they continued, my 'Mom voice' would come out. It wasn't screaming and shouting, which, not only do kids ignore quite easily, but it disturbs the people around you; it was quiet and serious. When I got very quiet, my kids new they were 'this close' to being in big trouble and had better calm down right now. I've even used it with other kids. Most of the kids who are bratty enough for me to have to pull it with are used to being yelled and screamed at. Being talked to quietly and sternly makes them really stop and think!

[RTFirefly]

Well, I don't have a 'teacher face', so I developed a 'Mom voice'; out in public with my kids (and since my youngest is 11, this isn't necessary so much anymore, but when they were young. . .) if they were starting to act up, I'd give them a warning; if they continued, my 'Mom voice' would come out. It wasn't screaming and shouting, which, not only do kids ignore quite easily, but it disturbs the people around you; it was quiet and serious. When I got very quiet, my kids new they were 'this close' to being in big trouble and had better calm down right now.Yeah, I do the 'very quiet with an edge to it' voice, but for whatever reason, the Firebug often fails to take it seriously. I think it may be partly him, and partly the age he's at.

[Dogzilla]

I used the quiet and serious voice on a kid I was babysitting once. My stepmonster had volunteered me to babysit; I would never have agreed to watch this kid on my own free will. The family attended the church and the mom had something to do with her older son, so she dropped off the toddler at our house for me to watch.

I had watched over this kid in the nursery during Sunday School so I already knew he was a screamer and a temper tantrum thrower. Completely spoiled rotten. Things were going pretty well until he asked me for a drink of water. I said yes, in a minute, and took more than 0.03 seconds to move toward the kitchen to get it.

So the kid threw himself down on the dining room floor and proceeded to scream and wail as if I'd just punched him in the face. (My stepmonster was ignoring me and the kid, oblivious to all this.) I do not like this kid at all, so I did not hesitate. I picked up the little dude by his arms and set him on his feet, and stayed down on my knees so I was looking him straight in the eye. I took my hands off him and got right up in his face, so our noses were maybe two inches apart.

In a very low, quiet, but very menacing voice, I said, "Stop that right this instant. Maybe screaming works in your house, but in this house, we don't act like that. If you want a drink, you may ask for a drink. I will get you one. Do not scream in this house. Ever. Got it?"

Eyes big as saucers, the kid nodded his agreement to not be a bratty little shit for the rest of the day and we got along just fine. He even said please and thank you for the water.

In this instance, I think we had a case of harried, crazy-busy mom who doesn't necessarily have enough time to give the kid the kind of quality attention he needed. So he'd throw down a tantrum to at least get some attention, even if it was negative. I straight up let him know that he'd get plenty of positive attention from me (I attentively played with him all day) but I wasn't having screeching, screaming toddler tantrums stomping up and down on my last nerve.

When the mom showed up, she was shocked to find her kid quietly playing with our collection of babysitting Legos. IIRC, we were building a racetrack or a rocket ship or something and he didn't even notice she'd shown up to pick him up.

I think there's sometimes an appropriate time and place to put your hands on someone else's kid. All I did was pick him up and put him on his feet and then went to The Voice.

[Voyager]

A customer who is wreaking havoc and ruining other customers' dining experiences after they've gotten the check can certainly be hustled out of there. If you're not going to do it then, then when are you going to do it, short of someone engaging in fisticuffs in the dining area?

Hmmm. They seemed to be having money problems - perhaps they were hoping to get kicked out without paying? Just a thought.

[even sven]

I can never quite figure out how I get shit for being judgmental and "holier than thou" in a thread where people are calling other people they've never met and know nothing about "scum" whose children will "almost certainly grow up to be scum."

I am impressed, though, that so many of you have mastered special looks and voices that can render any child immediately obedient. Most of the parents I know are imperfect creatures who are doing the best they can to do a job that they are learning as they go along and making copious mistakes (which I assume makes them "scum") and clearly wouldn't fit in on "the board where everyone is above average."

[Muffin]

I can never quite figure out how I get shit for being judgmental and "holier than thou"

Well . . .

[MsWhatsit]

You've never heard someone use the "mom voice", even sven?

The thing about the "mom voice", ironically enough, is that it actually tends to work better on other people's children. Stranger using the mom voice = scary, better shape up! Mom using mom voice = oh, it's just Mom. ;)

[even sven]

Eh. I know the "mom voice." As a teacher is comes in handy.

But the whole:

"Well, I never have to deal with kids acting up, because I always use perfect judgement all the time. My kids, for example, have never even uttered a word in public. It's so easy to raise kids! Why doesn't the scum just use the simple solution? It must be because they were planning to rob the restaurant. I bet they were smuggling drugs, too!"

"Oh yeah? Me too! I hate when scum is imperfect around me! I bet they are terrorists of some kind- just look at their 'ghetto' attitude! One time my child broke his arm, but he didn't cry even once because I looked at him funny. Really, anyone whose kids cry is just a bad person. Isn't it great that we aren't scum?"

is getting a little silly. The couple in the OP probably weren't great parents, although I didn't know enough about them to judge their qualities as human beings. And none of us have a magic ability to control all children at all times.

[MeanOldLady]

Silly? Dude, what's silly is you going all Rambo on everyone the minute you hear a crack in a child's voice. Most people's original response to a noisy family who is leaving a restaurant is to just be quiet and wait for them to go. After it's clear that they're lingering, and the disruption is getting progressively worse, then you say something, which is what the OP did. Calling anything short of that "passive-aggressive" is nonsense.

[mnemosyne]

My wife's been teaching for 20 years; she has the same ability. We call the look "Teacher Face": :mad:
:D

You should see my mom in action. 30+ years of teaching, the perfect Teacher Face, and when situations like this arises, she not only manages to get the rowdy kids to settle down, but she often leaves them with homework too!

Seriously, we were on a trip a few years back and there were some kids - about 6-8 years old - who were being rather loud and rowdy around the pool. I think the parents were on the other side, and weren't paying attention. They bumped into my mom's chair, and she gave them the Teacher Face, which stopped them in their tracks, then started talking to them and got them to go off and count the flags around the pool or somesuch. They kept coming back with the answer and she'd just ask them to go find out some other random fact, all the while just lounging around and taking in some sun. It was rather amazing!

She occasionally babysits her neighbour's 4 year old, and every time he comes over, she has him practicing his letters or numbers or something. My dad is teaching the kid to speak English (he now asks for cheese and crackers by saying "Cheese please!" which my dad thinks is the funniest thing in the world!)

[MsWhatsit]

It's OK to sometimes just sit back and enjoy someone else's gloriously over-the-top anecdote. My favorite part so far is the velour sweatsuit, which really just brought the whole scene together for me.

[perfectparanoia]

I actually enjoy when kids are acting up. Especially when I am eating out with my own kids.

We are working pretty hard at socializing them and during the first few months, they learned what the limits were and that being in public did not mean they could get away with anything they couldn't get away with at home. Sure, we missed out on a couple of meals at restaurants when we had to follow through on a threat to go home (one that we had even already ordered and then paid for <sigh>) while they were testing those limits but now we have kids who will sit through a whole meal at a restaurant (provided we have brought at least a colouring book since they can get bored) without incident.*

What I love now is watching the horrified looks my children get on their faces when other children do not behave well in a restaurant. They can't help but stare as if they think that the other child is going to seriously get in trouble any moment.

My biggest problem when other children are acting up is to not say anything. My tongue has permanent bite marks. If I hear one more parent say, 'Don't do that.' in a sing song voice only to be ignored over and over again, I might have to give them lessons. (If you want most kids to stop and they aren't listening, look them straight in the eye, tell them quietly to stop it. Works 90% of the time.)

I think, though, one of the reasons we are seeing more and more of this behaviour from parents is because they do not want to embarass themselves. Take this weekend. We were at the grocery store and my daughter could not stop touching things on the shelves (she is allowed to help by pulling things off that we are buying, of course). She got two warnings (both in quiet 'mom voice' while looking her in the eye) and did it a third time. Guess what? My little girl got a time out in the middle of the grocery store (actually in a small alcove to the side so as not to disturb the folw of things). I got the hairy eyeball from everyone who walked by until it was over but she stopped and we kept going and had a nice little trip.

Now, while she was basically playing with things on the shelves, I was also getting the hairy eyeball. So, as a parent, I can't do anything that people won't disapprove of.

Non-parents will say that I just shouldn't take the little gaffer to the store with me. That's fine and dandy except she is normally well behaved and loves doing the groceries with me. And sometimes, I have to do groceries when I don't have my husband at home where he can care for the kids.

Anyway, my point is that while you get the exact same discipline out of me no matter what the location, it is often hard for parents to know how they should react to their childrens' behaviour issues outside the home.

*I also think it helps that we are there to eat dinner as a family. Which means we all talk to each other and pay attention to the kids. If we wanted to have a grown up dinner, we would get a sitter.

[Jackmannii]

But the whole:

"Well, I never have to deal with kids acting up, because I always use perfect judgement all the time. My kids, for example, have never even uttered a word in public. It's so easy to raise kids! Why doesn't the scum just use the simple solution? It must be because they were planning to rob the restaurant. I bet they were smuggling drugs, too!"

"Oh yeah? Me too! I hate when scum is imperfect around me! I bet they are terrorists of some kind- just look at their 'ghetto' attitude! One time my child broke his arm, but he didn't cry even once because I looked at him funny. Really, anyone whose kids cry is just a bad person. Isn't it great that we aren't scum?"

is getting a little silly.The whole "I'll create a bunch of ridiculous strawmen to justify my inane criticism of the OP" thing is what's silly.

No one's expecting "perfect" parenting. Some effort, is, however, necessary.

And that's what it comes down to - not a reluctance to make an embarassing scene, or cluelessless (though they may come into play to some degree). It's about not giving a damn. Not as big a problem when parents avoid responsibility in their own home, but clearly a whole different matter when out in public.

[Quartz]

My order arrives. I ask the waitress to handle the situation. The waitress says that she is not allowed to say anything to the parents and that the manager must handle this. ask to speak with the manager. I'm told he is busy.

Spoken in a loud voice: "If the manager is unavailable, YOU are the responsible person. I am paying in part for peaceable enjoyment of my meal. Since you are incapable of that, I am leaving"

[norinew]

I can never quite figure out how I get shit for being judgmental and "holier than thou" in a thread where people are calling other people they've never met and know nothing about "scum" whose children will "almost certainly grow up to be scum."

I am impressed, though, that so many of you have mastered special looks and voices that can render any child immediately obedient. Most of the parents I know are imperfect creatures who are doing the best they can to do a job that they are learning as they go along and making copious mistakes (which I assume makes them "scum") and clearly wouldn't fit in on "the board where everyone is above average."
Please note: Most of the kids who are bratty enough for me to have to pull it with are used to being yelled and screamed at. Being talked to quietly and sternly makes them really stop and think!
Pay especially close attention to the bolded part. I don't have any 'tricks' that make me 'perfect' (or anything close to it) in dealing with my own children, or anyone else's. I have learned, in 23 years of being a mother, what is effective much of the time; this is as opposed to parents like those in the OP who don't really seem concerned about figuring out what's effective at all. That type of parent, IME, is perfectly content to put absolutely no effort into parenting, as long as what their little heathens are doing isn't directly affecting them.

I don't think what I've described is a majority of parents. I think most parents would prefer to do a good job, some may just need some guidance or education. But I've seen my share of parents who only have kids because they couldn't be bothered to go to the trouble of birth control, and then they parent very badly. The reason my method gets the attention of kids MOST of the time is that they're not accustomed to it. The reason it works on my kids MOST of the time is that they understand cause and effect, and understand that if they don't settle down immediately, unpleasantness will result.

[StusBlues]

I've never had anywhere near the problems cited by the OP, but I have spent some quality time in the presence of kids acting out.

I usually just offer them candy.

The adults get them out of the area quite quickly for some reason.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

I wish I had a teacher face. I get angry with my 3yo and he just laughs at the funny face daddy's making.I've had kids give me that reaction, too. They're the ones who get to write letters of apology, walk laps at recess, and explain to mom the detailed email about their behavior. Now those kids act up, they look over at me, see my expressionless stare, and knock it the heck off.

[RTFirefly]

But the whole:

"Well, I never have to deal with kids acting up, because I always use perfect judgement all the time. My kids, for example, have never even uttered a word in public. It's so easy to raise kids! Why doesn't the scum just use the simple solution? It must be because they were planning to rob the restaurant. I bet they were smuggling drugs, too!"

"Oh yeah? Me too! I hate when scum is imperfect around me! I bet they are terrorists of some kind- just look at their 'ghetto' attitude! One time my child broke his arm, but he didn't cry even once because I looked at him funny. Really, anyone whose kids cry is just a bad person. Isn't it great that we aren't scum?"

is getting a little silly. The couple in the OP probably weren't great parents, although I didn't know enough about them to judge their qualities as human beings. And none of us have a magic ability to control all children at all times.Oh, please.

I certainly don't have a magic ability to control the Firebug, but when we're in public and he's disturbing other people, I have the not-so-magic ability to pick him up and take him out to the car for a time-out and a quiet talk.

[Voyager]

Eh. I know the "mom voice." As a teacher is comes in handy.

But the whole:

"Well, I never have to deal with kids acting up, because I always use perfect judgement all the time. My kids, for example, have never even uttered a word in public. It's so easy to raise kids!

The solution universally used by parents in this thread is removing the kid when he or she acts up. That is not the same as claiming our kids are perfect. There are many reasons why kids may lose control, but none of them excuse bothering other people. In the situation described by the OP there were two parents, so one could remove the kid while the other paid, they had finished their meal so they didn't even have to worry about the food being cold. A kid having a fit in his booth is bad but I can see it being tolerable. Jumping into someone else's booth is so over the top as to be absurd. Do you really think that parents who allow such behavior are anything other than assholes?
You do not have had to develop mother, father or teacher voices to be able to move a six-year old kid.

[stegon66]

First off, I've been at my current job for a loooooong time. And I've never seen anyone get kicked out of the store. So it doesn't happen as much as some people would have you believe.

Is the situation described in the OP not one of those "most extreme circumstances"? Sure sounds like it to me. Complaints from three different customers, kids running all over the place, including diving into the next booth and spilling that customer's coffee all over the table...it damned sure seems to be a situation that, at the very minimum, calls for the manager's personal attention, regardless of what she feels she can do.

A friend of mine - another manager actually - was working at another store one time. A guy started getting really nasty because his meal was taking longer than usual (the store was very busy at the time). She went out to talk to him and he got up, got in her face and started cursing at her - had her backed up against a wall actually. He then left because she told him he had to. He later called the district manager and complained. My friend was written up. The DM didn't care about her side of the story, he just cared that one of his pwecious customers was bitching, never mind that he was an asshole.

The DM was a douchebag too IIRC.

I wasn't surprised by a recent article stating that restaurant work is one of the most stressful jobs you can have, especially for managers who are quite often stuck between the proverbial rock and a hard place.

[alphaboi867]

Just as an alternative to throwing water on the kid....

"Excuse me ma'm? Can you please remove your son. You see, I'm undergoing treatment for being sexually attracted to children and having him here in my booth is...tempting."...

I'll save that for the next time I get stuck sitting next to a kid on a plane.

[Hippy Hollow]

I have two kids, a 3 and 1 year old. So they're prone to not behave perfectly when we go out. But they are remarkably well behaved, and I can't recall a meltdown - we learned as parents to not stop at twenty stores before naptime, etc. But I do feel sympathy for parents who have young kids and are just clueless on how to deal with them. Of course this isn't really the category that the parents in the OP are dealing with.

I'm an old school parent, and I will dress down a kid in public; I really don't care and don't embarrass easily. I do believe if your kid is totally out of control, it's your job to get out of there as quickly and safely as possible and deal with him/her in a place where others aren't being bothered. But I do not think it is a good idea to interact with someone else's kids. It's not 1950, we don't live in the same neighborhoods, and you do not know who you're dealing with. You talk to the parents, then the management, and if that fails, go elsewhere. There are places where management are clueless drones that have to clear everything through corporate, and there are places where the people working there are empowered to handle a situation.

I taught fourth grade in the 'hood. Trust me, I dealt with some kids that would challenge the best mom/teacher stares out there. Not every tactic works on every kid. But certainly, if you can remove yourself from the situation, do so. There's nothing noble about getting into a battle of wits with a child, and if you don't have to - don't. Having dealt with kids for a living I sure as hell didn't want to do it outside of work.

[PotLuck]

I think there's sometimes an appropriate time and place to put your hands on someone else's kid. All I did was pick him up and put him on his feet and then went to The Voice.Ordinarily I would never put my hands on even the brattiest of kids (although many times the back of my hand itched to do so), but I once physically moved a 6YO kid out of the store entrance that he was deliberately blocking as his mother ineffectually cooed "Dylan, let her in! Dylan! Dylan! Dylan, stop that! Dylan! Dylan! Dylan, let her in! Dylan! Dylan! Dylan!"

Her demeanour changed instantly and she snapped, "Don't you put your hands on my boy!" I simpered "Dylan, let her in! Dylan! Dylan! Dylan!", rolled my eyes and kept on walking. Perhaps if she'd used the tone she used on me on her child instead, he wouldn't have just eyeballed the two of us and continued doing whatever he felt like.

[alice_in_wonderland]

We're talking about a person who gets into "bathroom mode" and sulks and is depressed when her roommate hops in the shower before her.

Did I miss a thread somewhere?

[Hippy Hollow]

Did I miss a thread somewhere?

yeah, I totally did not get that.

[Guinastasia]

My dad has his "Dad Look". I would get scared whenever he used it. My father is six-three and when he gets his "look", he is scary. I wasn't afraid he was going to hurt me, but hell, when you're a kid, that look can scare the shit out of you.

For gods' sakes, sven, the kid threw himself into her booth, grabbed her with sticky hands AND spilled her coffee all over the place, screaming all the while that he was on fire. He was running around the place, making a complete nuisance of himself, and Mom and Dad were just sitting there ignoring him. Considering that he risked having hot coffee spilled on him or Lurker, I'd say he got off easy.

stegon66, I've worked customer service, but that doesn't mean a person shouldn't do his or her job. And in this case, his JOB was to take care of problems going on in the restaurant. In some cases, the manager IS a dick to customers, and shouldn't be excused for it. And if a manager doesn't have the balls to deal with THIS kind of situation, then fuck it.

If you're putting up with customers who allow their kids to run around and pretty much maul other customers, and you're not doing shit, then you're a lousy manager, and quite frankly? You DESERVE to lose your job. I never allowed kids to act like that when I was working (I yelled at plenty of kids), and I don't think I ever got in trouble.

(That kid was a lawsuit waiting to happen -- if he had gotten hurt, can you imagine how Mommy and Daddy would have reacted? Ugh!)

[Rilchiam]

Most of the parents I know are imperfect creatures who are doing the best they can to do a job that they are learning as they go along and making copious mistakes...

See, you say that, but your comments, like the suggestion of asking the parents if they'd like some crayons for the kid, seem like they'd only work in an ideal world, where everyone has perfect integrity and where people always respond the way you want them to respond.

[flatlined]

I've never had anywhere near the problems cited by the OP, but I have spent some quality time in the presence of kids acting out.

I usually just offer them candy.

The adults get them out of the area quite quickly for some reason.

I am now going to start carrying candy in the same pocket I use for pet bribes. And for the same reason.

You are SO smart :)

[Ladymarmalade]

If either the parents or the manager had done their jobs then the OP would not have had to think on the spot with how to deal with this assault by a wild brat. I think it was hilarious! It's about time the polite majority got the last word.

[RTFirefly]

First off, I've been at my current job for a loooooong time. And I've never seen anyone get kicked out of the store. So it doesn't happen as much as some people would have you believe. I don't think it happens often at all. But if the manager can't talk a patron into behaving in a manner that doesn't disturb all the other patrons, what else does s/he have left in the way of options to deal with the situation?

What I hear you saying is that you'd let the one unruly patron or party ruin everyone else's dining experience until they got tired and left on their own.

I wasn't surprised by a recent article stating that restaurant work is one of the most stressful jobs you can have, especially for managers who are quite often stuck between the proverbial rock and a hard place.I'd be more sympathetic for your dilemma if you seemed like you gave a shit about how a party like the family in question was affecting everyone else's dining experience.

[Voyager]

First off, I've been at my current job for a loooooong time. And I've never seen anyone get kicked out of the store. So it doesn't happen as much as some people would have you believe.

You work retail, right? I've not seen many misbehaving kids in a retail environment (not that I do a lot of shopping.) First, they are not stuck in one place. Second, patrons they offend are not stuck either, like those in a middle of a meal are. If I can't move for some reason, I'd just leave, with no problems. If there was a store that let kids go wild they might lose business, but I doubt the managers would see too many complaints.

[aruvqan]

You work retail, right? I've not seen many misbehaving kids in a retail environment (not that I do a lot of shopping.) First, they are not stuck in one place. Second, patrons they offend are not stuck either, like those in a middle of a meal are. If I can't move for some reason, I'd just leave, with no problems. If there was a store that let kids go wild they might lose business, but I doubt the managers would see too many complaints.

i have had my crutches hooked out from under me, dumping me on the floor. I have had a kid RUN ahead of me and jump onto the power chair and ride off in it to joyride around the store. I have had kids run up and push me. All the times management did nothing about it, and the fucking parent/s did nothing about it.

Fuck brats.

[lorene]

i have had my crutches hooked out from under me, dumping me on the floor. I have had a kid RUN ahead of me and jump onto the power chair and ride off in it to joyride around the store. I have had kids run up and push me. All the times management did nothing about it, and the fucking parent/s did nothing about it.

Fuck brats.

Where the fuck do you do your shopping? I'm serious. It sounds like a zoo or something.

[norinew]

i have had my crutches hooked out from under me, dumping me on the floor. I have had a kid RUN ahead of me and jump onto the power chair and ride off in it to joyride around the store. I have had kids run up and push me. All the times management did nothing about it, and the fucking parent/s did nothing about it.

Fuck brats.
Well, I'd say 'fuck the parents who let the brats get away with this shit'. It would never even occur to one of my kids to do something like that. You know why? They were raised better! This is not to say my kids have always been paragons of good behavior in public; for instance, mudgirl has a terrible habit of saying things that are. . .well, less than appropriate for a public setting, while we're out eating lunch or something. But when she does that, I'll quietly say to her "That's not an appropriate topic for this time and place", and she'll say "Oh. Right. Sorry." and change the subject!

Kids who are allowed to run wild when they're very small quickly learn that running wild is an acceptable option. It is up to the parents to teach them differently (or to not let them learn to run wild in the first place!)

Do I like having my meal interrupted by having to take a kid somewhere else to calm them down/discipline them? I do not. Therefore, sometimes I get a baby sitter when I go out. Otherwise, keeping my kid under control is the price I pay for having the kid with me. Not rocket science!

[lindsaybluth]

ETA: @ lorene:

What, you think this behavior is uncommon? Or do you think aruvqan is lying? Or perhaps shops in terrible places? Does it really matter where she shops? I'm sure she could tell you stories of people parking in handicapped spaces she could have used who display no such placards/license plates and have no disability. Hell, I see it weekly.

I think we've already established that the world is brimming with morons who reproduce willy nilly. Just because you've never seen a child grind chicken into the floor with his bare feet doesn't mean it hasn't happened to me. Just because you've never seen a filthy little bastard grab another patron with their sticky little digits doesn't mean it didn't happen to the OP.

I'm a little tired of people calling into question the legitimacy of other well-established, rational posters' comments.

[MsWhatsit]

Where the fuck do you do your shopping? I'm serious. It sounds like a zoo or something.

Right? Maybe Columbus, OH is just some kind of idyllic paradise(*), but I'm pretty sure that in any shopping establishment I've ever been to, if someone on crutches got knocked down by a rowdy kid, there would immediately be people swarming over to try to help out, reprimand the kid, etc. I have also personally seen, with my own eyes, a Target manager tell a kid to get off one of the little motorized cart things, and that kid wasn't even driving it around; he was just sitting in the seat. So I have trouble imagining a store where kids are knocking over people on crutches and driving motorized carts around and shoving grownups with total impunity. It sounds like Lord of the Flies.


(*) These words have never before been uttered in any context at any time for any reason.

ETA in response to lindsaybluth: Yes, I do think this behavior is very uncommon, actually.

[billfish678]

. It sounds like Lord of the Flies.
.

Thats the name of the new chain of "upscale" stores the Walmart Corp is planning.

[lorene]

ETA: @ lorene:

What, you think this behavior is uncommon? Or do you think aruvqan is lying? Or perhaps shops in terrible places? Does it really matter where she shops? I'm sure she could tell you stories of people parking in handicapped spaces she could have used who display no such placards/license plates and have no disability. Hell, I see it weekly.

<snip>

I'm a little tired of people calling into question the legitimacy of other well-established, rational posters' comments.

I don't think she's lying. I never said she is lying. I do wonder where she is shopping that such feral beasts are the norm and not the exception. yes, it does matter where she shops, because it's not anyplace I would ever want to be.

On preview---what Ms. Whatsit said. I don't think these things never happen, but again, I don't think they are more common than uncommon.

[Voyager]

I don't think she's lying. I never said she is lying. I do wonder where she is shopping that such feral beasts are the norm and not the exception. yes, it does matter where she shops, because it's not anyplace I would ever want to be.

On preview---what Ms. Whatsit said. I don't think these things never happen, but again, I don't think they are more common than uncommon.

I also am curious about where this happens, and when. I don't shop right after school gets out, and I don't shop at WalMart. Where I do shop, like Target, I see plenty of kids but very few misbehaving ones. Hell, in Costco the kids are on average better behaved than the adults; at least they don't leave their carts in the middle of the aisles. :mad:

[Jackmannii]

Right? Maybe Columbus, OH is just some kind of idyllic paradise(*)...

(*) These words have never before been uttered in any context at any time for any reason.You missed the editorial in last week's Dispatch. :)

[lindsaybluth]

Now that I think about it more, I've never seen the behavior in more affluent suburbs, like where my parents are moving to. In the city at Target and other stores is where I've seen it.

Although the restaurant with bare feet/chicken ground into the floor was a well off suburb with an inexpensive menu.

Presumably aruqvan has listed behavior over many years. The issue is that any of the situations she listed is horrific. Once in a lifetime is an exception; once every few months is disgusting behavior that deserves comment.

I've seen people knocked over by kids on those wheelie-skate shoes. In fact, at one of the stores I shop at, they make announcements every so often (at least once, sometimes twice a grocery trip) about the shoe-skates being banned for safety.

[Cat Whisperer]

My husband and I travel around North America by car and we stop at many different places, and one thing we've learned is that things are different in different places. We thought the kids in our local zoo were bad, then we went to a Chicago zoo - holy shit! Talk about feral children! We have a new appreciation for how well-behaved our local children are at the zoo now.