Two observations about Egypt

[terryobrien80]

These are my two observations about Egypt:

1 - If this uprising is really democracy in action & a popular uprising as many are saying, then this would seem to vindicate George Bush's belief that having a democracy in the middle of the Middle East would be an inspiration for other counties. After all, such things take a little time to foment and percolate.

2 - I have yet to hear the press making any comparisons with Tiananmen Square. Remember, those kids in Tiananmen Square were out there for many nights, and the press was hailing them as a new generation seeking democracy. Night after night they were out there, and then in a blink of an eye the tanks smashed them and that was it. If I were Mubarak, and I saw how Obama embraced the Chinese leader so warmly even after China smashed their democratic uprising, I'd be thinking: I f the Chinese can get away with it so can I. I would not be surprised in the least if this whole event came to a swift brutal end.

[Ludovic]

This may be the first time I've seen Obama retroactively blamed for something that happend 20 years ago, but it had to happen eventually.

[Tom Scud]

This is not really the right forum for this discussion; you might want to check Great Debates for about half a dozen threads currently active.

And I have seen no evidence whatsoever that the people in Egypt were inspired by a desire to emulate Iraq.

[terryobrien80]

This may be the first time I've seen Obama retroactively blamed for something that happend 20 years ago, but it had to happen eventually.

How did you get that out of my post? I did not blame Obama for Tiananmen Square. I stated a fact: The Chinese brutally smashed their uprising, and now the Chinese leader is greeted warmly in the White House. That is not an opinion, it is a fact.

I then said: If I were Mubarak, and I saw how Obama embraced the Chinese leader so warmly even after China smashed their democratic uprising, I'd be thinking that if the Chinese can get away with it so can I. That seems a fair bet.

Do you deny any of this?

[terryobrien80]

This is not really the right forum for this discussion; you might want to check Great Debates for about half a dozen threads currently active.

Sorry. I did not see a political forum, so I took my best shot. If a Mod wants to move the thread that's okay by me.

[Kimmy_Gibbler]

I then said: If I were Mubarak, and I saw how Obama embraced the Chinese leader so warmly even after China smashed their democratic uprising, I'd be thinking that if the Chinese can get away with it so can I. That seems a fair bet.

Perhaps Mubarak is reluctant to take that chance because he remembers the scathing rebukes and lack of support that both Egypt and China received at the hands of both Bushes and Reagan?

[stpauler]

These are my two observations about Egypt:

1 - If this uprising is really democracy in action & a popular uprising as many are saying, then this would seem to vindicate George Bush's belief that having a democracy in the middle of the Middle East would be an inspiration for other counties. After all, such things take a little time to foment and percolate.

2 - I have yet to hear the press making any comparisons with Tiananmen Square. Remember, those kids in Tiananmen Square were out there for many nights, and the press was hailing them as a new generation seeking democracy. Night after night they were out there, and then in a blink of an eye the tanks smashed them and that was it. If I were Mubarak, and I saw how Obama embraced the Chinese leader so warmly even after China smashed their democratic uprising, I'd be thinking: I f the Chinese can get away with it so can I. I would not be surprised in the least if this whole event came to a swift brutal end.

1)Isn't Israel in the Middle East and a Democracy? In fact, Egypt and Israel share a border but Egypt is actually in Africa.

2) If you were Mubarak, would you also have noticed how Bush embraced the "Chinese leader"? (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=ao0u17HRln.g&refer=home)
U.S. President George W. Bush said the U.S.-China relationship was in ``solid shape,'' and urged further exchanges between the two nations to develop trust, as he prepares to attend the Beijing Olympics next week.[/QUOTE]

[stpauler]

1)Isn't Israel in the Middle East and a Democracy? In fact, Egypt and Israel share a border but Egypt is actually in Africa.

Nevermind that last bit as the middle east includes Egypt too. :smack:

[terryobrien80]

How did you get that out of my post? I did not blame Obama for Tiananmen Square. I stated a fact: The Chinese brutally smashed their uprising, and now the Chinese leader is greeted warmly in the White House. That is not an opinion, it is a fact.

I then said: If I were Mubarak, and I saw how Obama embraced the Chinese leader so warmly even after China smashed their democratic uprising, I'd be thinking that if the Chinese can get away with it so can I. That seems a fair bet.

Perhaps Mubarak is reluctant to take that chance because he remembers the scathing rebukes and lack of support that both Egypt and China received at the hands of both Bushes and Reagan?

That's possible. But people who know such power have a tendency to not care what people think. Oh, they may "appear" to care what people think for public consumption's say, but they don't really care.

[xenophon41]

I saw what you did there, Kimmy Gibbler.

[Tom Scud]

I saw what you did there, Kimmy Gibbler.

Terry didn't, though.

[Frank]

And I have seen no evidence whatsoever that the people in Egypt were inspired by a desire to emulate Iraq.
It's more likely that they're emulating Tunisia.

My observation is: I'm impressed as hell. The demonstrators are mostly peaceful and very determined. They fought off an invasion by hooligans and did not escalate the necessary violence. They've set up an organized camp.

I'll note though, that none of that would have been able to happen without the neutrality of the Army. It will be the Army that decides how this ends.

[GIGObuster]

Terry didn't, though.

I don't think he even knows what a whoosh is. :)

[Yookeroo]

Iraq is such a shining example of a working democracy that the Egyptians had to have one just like it.

[Really Not All That Bright]

These are my two observations about Egypt:

1 - If this uprising is really democracy in action & a popular uprising as many are saying, then this would seem to vindicate George Bush's belief that having a democracy in the middle of the Middle East would be an inspiration for other counties. After all, such things take a little time to foment and percolate.

2 - I have yet to hear the press making any comparisons with Tiananmen Square. Remember, those kids in Tiananmen Square were out there for many nights, and the press was hailing them as a new generation seeking democracy. Night after night they were out there, and then in a blink of an eye the tanks smashed them and that was it. If I were Mubarak, and I saw how Obama embraced the Chinese leader so warmly even after China smashed their democratic uprising, I'd be thinking: I f the Chinese can get away with it so can I. I would not be surprised in the least if this whole event came to a swift brutal end.
I don't think anyone seriously doubts that a flourishing democracy in the Middle East could be an inspiration to other Middle Eastern states. Unfortunately, we haven't got one, other than Israel. Somehow, I suspect the people of Egypt are not gathering in thousands hoping to become more like Israel.

China has over a billion inhabitants and an economy instrinsically linked to our own. Egypt has some nice monuments and is a good place for a vacation. Mubarak has ruled Egypt for thirty years, and presumably isn't stupid enough to think that some pyramids give him the same foreign policy clout as being the largest holder of US foreign debt.

[Cisco]

What I've heard is that the Egyptians were inspired by the Tunisians, who were inspired by . . . Wikileaks. Read that on several different forums, haven't seen it reported in the mainstream media, so take it for what it's worth.

[The Jay]

I don't think he even knows what a whoosh is. :)

Just checking in to let you all know that I got the woosh also. :P :P

[Marley23]

This thread is in the wrong forum AND the OP is banned, so I'm closing it.