I wonder what Hellestal would say to this.

[Le Jacquelope]

We're sending foreign aid to China

CHINA, of all the God damned places on Earth

while we can't even take care of our own homeless.
http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/local&id=7931816


Sorry, homeless, sorry Nataline Sarskiyan, sorry all the poor in America, but we've got some kids way over in China to think about. Sucks to be you! :rolleyes:

Foreign aid to CHINA while we can't even take care of our own? WTF. At what point do we as a nation rebel and say enough is enough?

[Der Trihs]

Hmmm. About all I recall about Hellestal is that he's the economics guy who every so often rhetorically eviscerates someone for pushing the gold standard. A link would help people understand what if anything is the link between Hellestal and the homeless. Nor have you provided a link to the story about China which has so offended you. Nor is there any particular connection to what we do in China and what we do in Fresno. For that matte it mostly isn't even "we", since Fresno is mostly going to be a state and city matter while China is going to be a federal one;.

All in all not a very good Pit OP.

[Paranoid Randroid]

All in all not a very good Pit OP.

Agreed. Glancing at his profile, Hellestal hasn't even posted on the topic of economics (and China) in nearly a month. And when he did, it had nothing to do with aid to China -- his posts appear to have concerned claims about Chinese currency devaluation -- his opinion on this topic isn't at all clear to me. Further, the US sends aid to lots of countries, and gives less to China than do other developed nations; why focus on aid from the US to China?

I think you'll have to do a bit better than this, Le Jacquelope.

[Wendell Wagner]

According to this article, the U.S. gave $68 million to China in 2008 as foreign aid.

http://www.businessinsider.com/china-just-became-the-worlds-second-most-powerful-economy-but-its-still-receiving-25-billion-in-foreign-aid-2010-9

This article claims that the U.S. gives $65 million to China in some unnamed years, possibly 2010:

http://www.newsmax.com/InsiderReport/China-Nabs-US-ForeignAid/2011/01/30/id/384447

Various articles claim that China receives $2.5 billion in foreign aid from various countries, basically more well off ones, per year. So the amount that it gets from the U.S. is about 3% of the total amount that it gets from all countries per year. Also, note that $2.5 billion is about $2 per person for all of China.

I can't find any articles about where this foreign aid money goes to. Perhaps it goes to the poorer areas of the country. There are still a lot of quite poor areas in China. Being the second largest economy doesn't make China well off. It's just barely above the level of most third-world nations, with lots of reasonably well off and lots of poor areas.

$68 million wouldn't go very far in any case. This is the sort of money that might build a schoolhouse in a hundred rural villages and equip them with books and such. Can anyone find a citation showing what the foreign aid from the U.S. to China goes for?

[Drunky Smurf]

sorry all the poor in America, but we've got some kids way over in China to think about. Sucks to be you! :rolleyes:

Foreign aid to CHINA while we can't even take care of our own?

China has way more poor people than we do therefore their problem is of greater importance. Fuck America's poor.

We need to be giving billions of aid to China to hurry up their infrastructure building so they can become the worlds super power. Because we all agree on how crappy and evil America is and how we need to stop interfereing with the rest of the world. I know Der Trihs will agree with me on how crappy and evil America is.

[XT]

CHINA, of all the God damned places on Earth

I know you have trouble grasping this, but China is still a very poor country. I know, I know...you think they have all those juicy manufacturing jobs they 'stole' from America, and that this makes it ludicrous for the US to send them aid (you probably feel that they should be sending us aide), but the reality is that the average wage in China is on par with a lot of 3rd world countries...and there are a lot of extremely poor Chinese, especially outside of the cities.

Sorry, homeless, sorry Nataline Sarskiyan, sorry all the poor in America, but we've got some kids way over in China to think about. Sucks to be you!

Dude, get some perspective. If Wendell Wagner's figures are right (and no reason not to believe they aren't) then we are talking about something around $70 million. That's not even peanuts....it's below chump change. If we were giving them $7 billion dollars a year then that would be in the peanuts and chump change range...approximately $70 million?? That's laughable.

Foreign aid to CHINA while we can't even take care of our own? WTF. At what point do we as a nation rebel and say enough is enough?

Well, go out and man the barricades, dude. Maybe you can get all those hundreds of millions of like minded Americans who agree with you about tariffs and offshoring to join you there!

-XT

[RitterSport]

Does anyone have a better cite than newsmax or businessinsider that the US gives foreign aid to China? This (http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s1296.pdf -- warning PDF) from here (http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/foreign_commerce_aid/foreign_aid.html) doesn't seem to show China at any time back to 2001.

I did other Google searches but I couldn't find any good cites.

[Really Not All That Bright]

None of it comes from USAID, so none of it goes to the average poor Chinese. Instead, it's Economic Support Funds, meaning it pays for what some might call propaganda. From the Congressional Research Service (page 15):
USAID does not have a presence or mission in the People’s Republic of China
(PRC). However, the Peace Corps has been involved in English language and
environmental education in China since 1993, and United States funding primarily
to U.S.-based non-governmental organizations (NGOs) for democracy and Tibet
programs has grown substantially since 2002 (approximately $15 million per year).
China received only Peace Corps assistance prior to 2000. The Consolidated
Appropriations Act for FY2000 provided $1 million for foreign-based NGOs
working in Tibet and authorized ESF for foreign NGOs to promote democracy in
China. For FY2001, the United States extended $28 million to the PRC as
compensation for damages caused by the accidental NATO bombing of the Chinese
Embassy in Belgrade in 1999. Congress has increased its annual appropriation for
democracy, human rights, and rule of law programs in China from $10 million in
2002 to $23 million in 2006.

Appropriations for cultural preservation, economic
development, and environmental conservation in Tibetan communities in China have
also grown. In 2004, the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor (DRL) of
the Department of State became the principal administrator of China democracy.

Major U.S. grantees have included the National Endowment for
Democracy (NED), the Asia Foundation, Temple University (School of Law), the
American Bar Association, and the Bridge Fund (Tibet). In addition, NED provides
grants (approximately $2 million per year since 1999) for programs that promote
human rights, labor rights, electoral and legal reforms, and independent mass media
in China from its annual congressional appropriation.

Since 2006, Congress has appropriated
Development Assistance (DA) to American
educational institutions for exchange programs
related to democracy, rule of law, and the
environment in China. In 2007, the U.S.
government began funding HIV/AIDS programs
in China.

The United States continues to impose other
restrictions that were put in place in the
aftermath of the 1989 Tiananmen Square
military crackdown, including “no” votes or
abstentions by U.S. representatives to
international financial institutions regarding
loans to China (except those that meet basic human needs) and a ban on Overseas
Private Investment Corporation (OPIC) programs in the PRC. The Foreign
Operations Appropriations Act for FY2002 (P.L. 107-115) lifted the restrictions
(effective since FY2000) requiring that ESF for China democracy programs be
provided only to NGOs located outside the PRC. However, Tibet programs are still
restricted to NGOs. Congress continues to require that U.S. representatives to
international financial institutions support projects in Tibet only if they do not
encourage the migration and settlement of non-Tibetans (Han Chinese) into Tibet or
the transfer of Tibetan-owned properties to non-Tibetans. (http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL31362.pdf)
Long story short: most of it goes to NGOs and aid programs that aim to make China more democratic, and the rest go to cultural preservation and environmental protection.

[Rhythmdvl]

As someone who makes a living working for NGOs and international aid agencies, and as someone who outsources a lot of work to people in the developing world, I cordially invite you to bite my shiny metal ass.

[Manda JO]

I find any pit of Hellestal to be fairly bizarre: he does a wonderful job explaining economic concepts.

[XT]

I find any pit of Hellestal to be fairly bizarre

Especially when the OP doesn't bother to link to whatever in the hell set him off this time...

-XT

[emacknight]

Especially when the OP doesn't bother to link to whatever in the hell set him off this time...

-XT

As far as I can tell it's random generated. For what ever reason Hellestal was the last name he saw, so that goes in, along with the cause de jour, in this case "homelessness" and then a link to something unrelated, along with the obligatory rant against anything Chinese.

I assume everyone here is now on his ignore list.

[XT]

Yeah, he's as unstable as a new Microsoft operating system...but twice as entertaining! :p

-XT

[John Mace]

What would Hellestal say? He'd say you're an idiot. And he'd be right.

[Le Jacquelope]

China has way more poor people than we do therefore their problem is of greater importance. Fuck America's poor.

We need to be giving billions of aid to China to hurry up their infrastructure building so they can become the worlds super power. Because we all agree on how crappy and evil America is and how we need to stop interfereing with the rest of the world. I know Der Trihs will agree with me on how crappy and evil America is.
That sounds as much like Hellestal, or moreso, than Der Trihs.

[Le Jacquelope]

As someone who makes a living working for NGOs and international aid agencies, and as someone who outsources a lot of work to people in the developing world, I cordially invite you to bite my shiny metal ass.
And when we run out of jobs to give your developing world people, and our currency collapses as it is in danger of doing, what will you and the developing world do then?

Oddly enough hellestal could not think of an answer to that. It's not a good bet that you will be able to, either.

[Lord Ashtar]

And when we run out of jobs to give your developing world people, and our currency collapses as it is in danger of doing, what will you and the developing world do then?

...and we come full circle back to offshoring.

[XT]

I don't think we ever left offshoring. It's Le JacAssAlope after all.

I love the way Le Jac keeps trying to put words in Hellestal's mouth though. Wonder how he thinks that's working out for him in this lame ass thread...

-XT

[Le Jacquelope]

...and we come full circle back to offshoring.
Rhythmdvl brought it up. I answered him. Got a problem with that, rashtard?

So... when do our jobless and homeless Americans get some foreign aid? Can you answer that?

[XT]

When will monkeys start flying out of your ass? Can you answer THAT? How about the exact time for the heat death of the Universe? Can you answer THAT? What about the question of when mutant space eagles will invade and start killing off all our rodents???

-XT

[Der Trihs]

So... when do our jobless and homeless Americans get some foreign aid? Never, since they aren't foreign.

[Le Jacquelope]

Never, since they aren't foreign.
:P

Foreign aid, this time meaning aid from foreign countries.

[Peremensoe]

...why focus on aid from the US to China?

Maybe because we had to borrow the money from them first?

[Lord Ashtar]

So... when do our jobless and homeless Americans get some foreign aid? Can you answer that?

First, we need to put tariffs on all the countries with brown and yellow people, driving our economy into the toilet. Then maybe the EU will take pity on us and send us some aid.

[Damuri Ajashi]

I know you have trouble grasping this, but China is still a very poor country....
-XT

They're sitting on a pile of our IOUs. How about they spend some of that money so we don't have to send money there to feed their ridiculously poor?

[RickJay]

They're sitting on a pile of our IOUs. How about they spend some of that money...
How do you spend an IOU?

[Der Trihs]

:P

Foreign aid, this time meaning aid from foreign countries.
Why would foreign countries give aid to such a rich country as America? Especially when we've gone out of our way to alienate pretty much the entire planet.

[ñañi]

Why would foreign countries give aid to such a rich country as America? Especially when we've gone out of our way to alienate pretty much the entire planet.

Doesn't Venezuela have a program where they give poor Americans heating oil through some US subsidiary they have?

Ah yes, seems that at least in 2009 it was still in effect (http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2009/0109/p25s02-woam.html). And costing them 100 million dollars a year, too. So that washes with our China expenditures, at least. Yay for Chavez's ego, I guess.

[penultima thule]

So... when do our jobless and homeless Americans get some foreign aid? Can you answer that?
You're incontravertably too insular to acknowledge it , but according to Washington Post $854 million in foreign aid/assistance was offered by foreign countries to the US after Hurricane Katrina.

[Le Jacquelope]

When you get backed into a corner you love to trot out this accusation of racism...
First, we
...a country of brown and yellow people whose birth rates outnumbered that of whites as of 2010...

need to put tariffs on all the countries with brown and yellow people
Spot the irony of your statement. Of course you can't.

driving our economy into the toilet.
More irrational speculation, or more specifically, scare tactics. Your argument has at best the most tenuous support from history, rife with exceptions. (Such as China, whose economy has not been ruined by its tariffs.)

[XT]

Well, I certainly see the irony....

-XT

[TravisFromOR]

When you get backed into a corner you love to trot out this accusation of racism...


Hey kettle--the phone's for you--it's the pot.

[Le Jacquelope]

Hey kettle--the phone's for you--it's the pot.
Ah, the "I know you are but what am I?" comeback, again.

Anyhoot... why the fuck are we sending aid to China again? They already have our jobs. Isn't that aid enough?

[TravisFromOR]

Ah, the "I know you are but what am I?" comeback, again.



No, it's not that. It's that you're a hypocritical jackass who makes accusations of racism when there is no basis for it.

[Le Jacquelope]

No, it's not that.
Yes it is. "I know you are but what am I?" is your best shot. You're the bunch of idiots posting baseless racism accusations like this:

"First, we need to put tariffs on all the countries with brown and yellow people"

as if you guys think this is a war on brown and yellow people.

What a bunch of feeble minded bobbleheads.

[TravisFromOR]

Yes it is. "I know you are but what am I?" is your best shot. You're the bunch of idiots posting baseless racism accusations like this:

"First, we need to put tariffs on all the countries with brown and yellow people"

as if you guys think this is a war on brown and yellow people.

What a bunch of feeble minded bobbleheads.

That's not what anyone supporting offshoring supports. If you were half as smart as you think you are, you would understand that.