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Freudian Slit
02-21-2011, 09:25 PM
I was reading a Nerve.com article on sex and motherhood (http://www.nerve.com/content/baby-love-0) (I know, I know, my first mistake) and a writer mentioned hearing that breastfeeding while masturbating could be very erotic, so she decided to try it out.

Eventually, I felt around and masturbated, tentatively. As I became aroused, my breasts squirted milk. That was cool. I felt like a teenage boy trying to see how far he could shoot. When I told this to one of my mommy friends, she said, "You should try masturbating while breastfeeding. It's amazing."

I didn't want to miss out. I went home, got out my mini-massager and settled into the Glider rocking chair with Felix, then a month and a half old, at my breast.

If anyone here has tried it, feel free to add your opinion...but my real question is, does this cross the line in terms of the parent/child relationship? I mean, I doubt the kid at this age is going to remember this and feel abused but despite that does it cross the line into disturbing territory? I personally found it pretty creepy (the whole article pretty much is, but again, that's par for the course at Nerve).....

Erdosain
02-21-2011, 09:31 PM
I don't want to judge anyone, but that is ten kinds of fucked up. Seriously.

flatlined
02-21-2011, 09:31 PM
Nobody is replying because we are all running for brain bleach :eek:

Freudian Slit
02-21-2011, 09:32 PM
Well, it's only been seven minutes since I posted the thread, flatlined. I figure the responses will come in time.

SkeptiJess
02-21-2011, 09:33 PM
Yeah, I'm going with 'ick,' here. I enjoyed breast feeding my son, in the same way that I enjoyed many other aspects of caring for him. But purposefully bringing an erotic component into baby care? Just seems... wrong.

Labrador Deceiver
02-21-2011, 09:37 PM
Well, it's only been seven minutes since I posted the thread, flatlined. I figure the responses will come in time.

I doubt anyone will own up to it after the first 2 posters to respond basically freaked out.

I'm a male, and the idea of sexual activity with a baby involved is a bit weird, but I'm not going to run around flailing my arms at the thought of it.

MeanOldLady
02-21-2011, 09:39 PM
WTF?

No. Fuck that. No. You don't fucking jerk off with your goddamn baby in your hand. No.

Maiira
02-21-2011, 09:43 PM
I'm not freaked out by it (because it's not like the baby's going to remember it) but it is a little weird. I probably wouldn't do it.

FloatyGimpy
02-21-2011, 09:43 PM
Masturbating while holding your child is just all kinds of wrong.

MeanOldLady
02-21-2011, 09:46 PM
I'm not freaked out by it (because it's not like the baby's going to remember it) but it is a little weird. I probably wouldn't do it.It doesn't matter if the baby remembers it. Do not use your baby to help wank yourself off.

Taomist
02-21-2011, 09:48 PM
Bring your man in to help with the sucking, or use a toy <or breast pump> like any other normal person.
Sorry; there's just no reason to do this. It's utilizing an unwitting, unconsenting person in one's sexual play.
And that's wrong, in my opinion.

Labrador Deceiver
02-21-2011, 09:49 PM
I doubt anyone will own up to it after the first 2 posters to respond basically freaked out.

I'm a male, and the idea of sexual activity with a baby involved is a bit weird, but I'm not going to run around flailing my arms at the thought of it.

Whoa, I just read this back and it sounds awful. I was just thinking about all those sex starved parents who have sex next to their baby, who is in a bassinet by the bed.

Onomatopoeia
02-21-2011, 09:53 PM
On the one hand, some of you seem really judgy. On the other, yeah, it does kind of settle in the inappropriate category for me.

Thinking about it more, it makes sense to me that it probably occurs more frequently than some would believe, or that practitioners would admit.

Freudian Slit
02-21-2011, 09:54 PM
Having sex with a baby next to the bed seems different, though. Physically holding the baby while you jerk off or receive oral, on the other hand...not so good.

Also, writing an article like that is bound to skeeve your kid out when he gets older.

Renee
02-21-2011, 09:59 PM
I'm not freaked out by it (because it's not like the baby's going to remember it) but it is a little weird. I probably wouldn't do it.

Well, he's going to remember it now, there is an article about on the goddamn internet. Thanks, mom!

Yeah, it's creepy. Oddly enough, I don't find having sex with a baby sleeping obliviously in a bassinet beside you creepy. But having the baby be an active participant in the sexual play is inappropriate at best. Ugh.

MsWhatsit
02-21-2011, 10:04 PM
Gross.

Additionally, my experience with month-and-a-half-old babies has been that both of my hands are required to keep the damn kid positioned on the breast correctly, leaving none available for kinky baby vibrator sex play. I call bullshit on the author.

Savannah
02-21-2011, 10:47 PM
I can see where having a baby breastfeed might be a bit strange when for years you've associated sucking nipples with eroticism. I can see where one's body might react to baby suckling in a way that is both maternal and erotic.

But I don't think masturbating while breastfeeding is something I would be comfortable with.

Rachellelogram
02-21-2011, 10:56 PM
Brain bleach sounds good.

I have heard of all kinds of bizarre sexual play (including bestiality, roleplaying a baby with adults pooping in diapers, child pornography, snuff). But this is not something that I have ever heard of, or even contemplated that someone would consider. I'm really shocked that someone would consider this, and I sure as fuck don't hear new sexual things every day. This is a first, in recent memory.

Peremensoe
02-21-2011, 11:16 PM
Having sex with a baby next to the bed seems different, though. Physically holding the baby while you jerk off or receive oral, on the other hand...not so good.

In this instance the baby's suckling is part of the stimulation. It's not just that the baby is there, but he's being made to participate. As Taomist said, bring in a knowing and willing partner.

Rushgeekgirl
02-21-2011, 11:27 PM
I can't even imagine it getting me in the mood. Yuck. I loved breastfeeding and did it for over three years but not once did that sort of nipple stimulation make me feel the urge to touch myself.

Alice The Goon
02-21-2011, 11:40 PM
I don't care about being judgy, this is just ... ew. Plus, it seems very likely that there could be an association that is formed, and after awhile just looking at your baby gets you all... where's that pukey smiley I've been wanting??

Magiver
02-21-2011, 11:41 PM
Her son's first word will be "Jocasta".

(Oedipus's mother).

Alan Smithee
02-21-2011, 11:42 PM
I'm a guy, and I don't have any kids. I can understand the reaction people are having, but honestly, I don't think it's a big deal.

If my mom wrote an article like that, I'd be a bit freaked out because she was writing about sex, but I don't think I'd be bothered beyond that. Masturbation's just not a big deal. If a woman orgasmed just from breastfeeding without masturbating, I'd think that was a bit fucked up, but I know that a woman's body becomes more sensitive when she's breastfeeding, and anyone's body become more sensitive when they're aroused. I can see how those things could work together.

I wouldn't assume that a woman who masturbated while breastfeeding was having erotic thoughts about her baby, just that her body was responding to two types of physical stimulation at once that each cause the release of pleasure hormones. Of course it's going to feel good.

Alice The Goon
02-21-2011, 11:45 PM
I'm a guy, and I don't have any kids. I can understand the reaction people are having, but honestly, I don't think it's a big deal.

If my mom wrote an article like that, I'd be a bit freaked out because she was writing about sex, but I don't think I'd be bothered beyond that. Masturbation's just not a big deal. If a woman orgasmed just from breastfeeding without masturbating, I'd think that was a bit fucked up, but I know that a woman's body becomes more sensitive when she's breastfeeding, and anyone's body become more sensitive when they're aroused. I can see how those things could work together.

I wouldn't assume that a woman who masturbated while breastfeeding was having erotic thoughts about her baby, just that her body was responding to two types of physical stimulation at once that each cause the release of pleasure hormones. Of course it's going to feel good.




Fine, but can't she put the baby down and then go to town on herself?

If a man said something like, "Yeah, seeing my baby suck on the bottle while I'm feeding her really gets me hot so I jack off while I'm holding her", would that be okay, too?

fifty-six
02-22-2011, 12:04 AM
I suppose no evil or harm is done. It is still weird.

What about an adult to experiment with?

Alan Smithee
02-22-2011, 12:32 AM
Fine, but can't she put the baby down and then go to town on herself?

If a man said something like, "Yeah, seeing my baby suck on the bottle while I'm feeding her really gets me hot so I jack off while I'm holding her", would that be okay, too?She could, but if, as I suggest, she's not thinking erotic thoughts about the baby, what difference does it make? I'm a strict consequentialist when it comes to morality. If no one is potentially harmed, it's no big deal. Weird, maybe, but so what.

As for the guy, you're suggesting that the baby itself (and not the physical response to breastfeeding) is being cathected as an erotic stimulus. That has enormous potential to lead to damaging interactions later on. If that's not the case, though....

Mind you, a lot of this comes down to believability. I'm inclined (for whatever reason; maybe I have an idealized view of motherhood) to believe a woman who says she's not thinking of the baby erotically in that situation. I'd be less inclined to believe a man. If I heard about a man masturbating while interacting with a baby, I'd think he's a perv. I can't think of anything non-pervy that would make a man do that. But all that said, there is still a chance I'd be wrong. Can't imagine it, and wouldn't give him the benefit of the doubt, but still, there you have it.

YogSosoth
02-22-2011, 12:35 AM
I need a rule 34 on this....

Guinastasia
02-22-2011, 01:26 AM
Alan Smithee, but she's basically using her kid as a sex toy. THAT'S the part that's disturbing.

Barkis is Willin'
02-22-2011, 01:30 AM
Jerking off while using a baby as a sexual stimulus? When does this become pedophilia?

Alan Smithee
02-22-2011, 01:45 AM
If you're disturbed by it, it's disturbing. I can't argue with that. I just don't care unless there is potential for actual harm. I've admitted that there could be that potential, but based on the description of the article, I'm not convinced there actually is such potential.

The question in the OP is whether this crosses a boundary, but what boundary is in question is not clear. It clearly crosses a personal comfort boundary for a lot of people. I'm not convinced it does any measurable harm, though, and one of my basic rules for living is that I don't tell people to stop doing something (especially in the bedroom) unless it either involves me or produces some detectable harm to someone.

Like I said, I'm a strict consequentialist. "Eww!" might be a compelling aesthetic argument, but it's not a moral argument.

Yorikke
02-22-2011, 02:16 AM
That is fucking disgusting, and I browse 4chan /b/ regularly.

Joe

Girl From Mars
02-22-2011, 02:30 AM
If you're disturbed by it, it's disturbing. I can't argue with that. I just don't care unless there is potential for actual harm. I've admitted that there could be that potential, but based on the description of the article, I'm not convinced there actually is such potential.

The question in the OP is whether this crosses a boundary, but what boundary is in question is not clear. It clearly crosses a personal comfort boundary for a lot of people. I'm not convinced it does any measurable harm, though, and one of my basic rules for living is that I don't tell people to stop doing something (especially in the bedroom) unless it either involves me or produces some detectable harm to someone.

Like I said, I'm a strict consequentialist. "Eww!" might be a compelling aesthetic argument, but it's not a moral argument.
I think the thing is that breastfeeding is stimulating - after you get over the hump of the blisters and the pain and the... well 6 weeks later and beyond it's quite a nice feeling. Not sexual, but it generally feels quite good. So then encouraging the feeling of that to enhance masturbation changes the breastfeeding stimulus from nice and nurturing and bonding into something sexual. And that is where it crosses the line into totally icky.

BigBertha
02-22-2011, 02:31 AM
I'm just trying to figure how a woman can be in the mood for sex right after childbirth. It took me a few months to even think about wanting to. Hell, I bled for 6 weeks.

gladtobeblazed
02-22-2011, 03:13 AM
It seems to me that she is exploiting the child for her own sexual pleasure. Disturbing and possibly criminal, she should be investigated by the police.

TokyoBayer
02-22-2011, 05:20 AM
At least this we know the answer to the burning question of what happens when you outsource your articles to junior high school boys.

Southern Yankee
02-22-2011, 06:43 AM
... Do not use your baby to help wank yourself off.

That would be the greatest sig line evah.

bengangmo
02-22-2011, 06:50 AM
WTF?

No. Fuck that. No. You don't fucking jerk off with your goddamn baby in your hand. No.

Bloody hell woman, the original info and image was bad enough - putting it like this really did make me run for the brain bleach...all those bad bad baby jokes just leapt into my.

Thanks for nothing

The Jay
02-22-2011, 07:11 AM
Just chiming in to say "fucking disgusting".

bengangmo
02-22-2011, 07:26 AM
If mummy gets off while baby is feeding, is baby still considered a virgin?

Heart of Dorkness
02-22-2011, 07:40 AM
Oh, HELL no. Eighty kinds of HELL. NO. And not only HELL NO, but also, this is basically my nightmare (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12593981&postcount=70). I'm thrilled and relieved beyond belief that I can breastfeed without feeling arousal, and here she is trying to make it happen.

And as for potential for actual harm (aside from the fact that the kid will read this eventually), I'd argue that encouraging the ability to view one's own newborn as a sexual aid - to depersonalize it for her own fun and enjoyment - is harmful to the mother's relationship with that child.

Things that should go without saying: Your baby is not a dildo.

lieu
02-22-2011, 07:57 AM
Most parents from the very get go embrace a complete and total mindset of wanting to do anything and everything to give their child the best upbringing possible and giving them every chance to succeed and flourish.

The described act violates the very heart, the most basic foundation of that desire.

even sven
02-22-2011, 08:18 AM
To be fair, if you read the article, this is not something she is advocating or some kind of how-to.

The article is about an extremely sexual woman who loses all connection with her sexuality after child birth. The incident ends as soon as it begins- you'll notice the first line is not about masturbating while breast feeding...it's just describing the first time she tried touching herself after having her kid. The next line after the OP's quote is literally the door bell ringing. The whole things ends in embarrassment, and is meant to illustrate how confused and mixed-up the writer's sexuality had become. It's more of a "this was a low-point" thing.

kanicbird
02-22-2011, 08:34 AM
I find the replies disturbing and very much anti-Love. What is described is a normal and perhaps beneficial human behavior, very possibly a out flow of Love, it is beautiful, and it is being judged very harshly and condemned here. It is very possible that some here have had such thoughts while breastfeeding, perhaps some even did some form of self stimulation like rubbing their thighs together (hands are not needed). Reading this thread can easily turn this natural human behavior into a feeling of guilt and shame.

Very rarely does the act reveal the intent of the heart, and to judge the person you have to know what they are thinking - is the infant is a sex toy or a beloved child that has the act of the Love of his/her creation still surrounding that infant. Such a infant that has the Love of his/her creation has the potential to bond the parents together more in Love - leading towards a better sex life between the parents.

Without knowing the intent behind it, I'd WAG that this infant is feeling a lot more Love and closeness then many others and is in a envyable position compared to many other infants.

faithfool
02-22-2011, 08:43 AM
I'm not a parent, but oh dear God does this sound sick to me. As others have said, I just can't imagine using my own child as an unwitting party to my own sexual escapades. That's just all kinds of wrong. And what if you get to the point that you can't get off without baby in hand? Ewwww.

Nancarrow
02-22-2011, 08:44 AM
My first thought when seeing the title of the thread was, "Ewww... brain bleach."

But then I noticed that, right now, the last poster was...

Kanicbird

... and I had to click.

Thanks for not disappointing, K! For my daily dose of batshit, you're even better than shrooms.

xoferew
02-22-2011, 08:55 AM
I don't think this is criminal or necessarily the beginning of a screwed up parent-child relationship or anything, but it's kind of like making obscene gestures at a blind person. It doesn't hurt them, but it's still not decent behavior -- you're using innocent others for your own amusement. Supposing that people could retroactively give consent, imagine 100 babies who have reached the age of consent being informed by their mothers. I wonder what percent of them would say, "It's fine that you did that, mom."

Hypno-Toad
02-22-2011, 09:16 AM
What if this leads to Pavlovian conditioning? Every time she feeds the rugrat, whe gets horney. Or worse, every time she gets horney, she wants to feed the kid.

Years later:

"That fireman next door must be mowing the lawn without a shirt again."

"How can you tell?"

"Mom cooked a three course meal."

Sateryn76
02-22-2011, 09:26 AM
Isn't this the same as the old yarn about putting peanut butter on your who-ha and calling for the dog?

I'll judge this one easily - eww, yuck, and if this is something that is okay with you, you need therapy.

Vinyl Turnip
02-22-2011, 09:32 AM
Without knowing the intent behind it, I'd WAG that this infant is feeling a lot more Love and closeness then many others and is in a envyable position compared to many other infants.

And the way the kid went to town on those nipples, they were TOTALLY asking for it. Little tease, get Mama all worked up and then leave her high and dry!

Diogenes the Cynic
02-22-2011, 09:37 AM
This is pretty clearly not ok. It's not even like it's just some kind of weird multi-tasking, this woman is talking about deriving sexual pleasure from the act of breastfeeding. I don't know if it's criminal, but it's very disturbing and can't be healthy.

anu-la1979
02-22-2011, 09:41 AM
To be fair, if you read the article, this is not something she is advocating or some kind of how-to.

The article is about an extremely sexual woman who loses all connection with her sexuality after child birth. The incident ends as soon as it begins- you'll notice the first line is not about masturbating while breast feeding...it's just describing the first time she tried touching herself after having her kid. The next line after the OP's quote is literally the door bell ringing. The whole things ends in embarrassment, and is meant to illustrate how confused and mixed-up the writer's sexuality had become. It's more of a "this was a low-point" thing.

No, the article is far far worse. It talks about parents and children sharing an "inherent sexuality" and a bunch of weird shit.

Here's an especially gross quotation:

Sometimes I'm afraid I go too far. I linger a little too long when I look at his little dimpled ass. I enjoy it too much when I put lotion on after his bath. I know everybody loves a naked baby; I know children are inherently sexual; I know it's normal to be turned on by your infant.

W-T-everloving-F???? I most certainly do not share any sort of sexuality "with" my parents, either my mother or father and the thought of them having been turned on by my infant body makes me physically ill.

But this is tricky territory. Is it wrong to encourage him to touch himself? Is it okay to think of my baby when I masturbate? Is that just a manifestation of his all-consumingness? Babies are like a gas — they expand to fit all available space.

There is something desperately wrong with this lady and I think her kid is going to be very very skeeved out when he reads this article 10 or 12 years from now.

Hello Again
02-22-2011, 09:42 AM
To be fair, if you read the article, this is not something she is advocating or some kind of how-to.

The article is about an extremely sexual woman who loses all connection with her sexuality after child birth. The incident ends as soon as it begins- you'll notice the first line is not about masturbating while breast feeding...it's just describing the first time she tried touching herself after having her kid. The next line after the OP's quote is literally the door bell ringing. The whole things ends in embarrassment, and is meant to illustrate how confused and mixed-up the writer's sexuality had become. It's more of a "this was a low-point" thing.

Um... did you keep reading? Because the author using her son for sexual gratification, definitely does not end with that incident. Now that her son is 1.5 years old, she says that the way he feeds is sexual, and that she masterbates while thinking of him, and that she has "placed her erotic longing on her son" instead of her husband, and that she can understand why people sexually abuse children.

I'm sorry, she goes waaaaay off the deep end.

Vinyl Turnip
02-22-2011, 09:47 AM
Smells like trollbait to me. Or maybe the diaper needs changing.

Freudian Slit
02-22-2011, 09:52 AM
Yeah, to be honest, the entire article is pretty messed up. Her idea that her son's breast feeding was sexual was gross. I'm pretty sure (well, I hope anyway) that most women don't see the act of a baby/child breast feeding as sexual.

Least Original User Name Ever
02-22-2011, 09:56 AM
Has this woman met George Costanza? There's some kind of sexual multitasking they could both go through.

even sven
02-22-2011, 10:23 AM
Uh. Sexual (http://www.babycenter.com/404_is-it-normal-to-feel-aroused-when-im-breastfeeding_8927.bc) response (http://www.onehotmama.com/ask-rox/question20.htm) during (http://www.drwendywalsh.com/blog/2009/09/women-who-orgasm-while-breast-feeding/) breastfeeding (http://www.cafemom.com/answers/254020/Breastfeeding_orgasms) is relatively (http://www.itsamomsworld.com/turned-on-by-breastfeeding.html) common (http://scienceblogs.com/neurotopia/2009/11/oxytocin_this_ones_for_the_lad.php). I don't think it's the standard or anything, but stimulation mixed with a rush of hormones has the possibility of triggering a physiological response. Breastfeeding is a physical act of love and bonding. While it's not sexual, I'd argue that for some women it falls somewhere on a continuum. Pretending like it's never ever even the slightest bit sexual to anyone ever just makes the women who do have this response feel shame and confusion.

I agree the author of the article seems very mixed up, pretty squicky and would probably benefit from less navel-gazing and public exposure. I also think, in her own way, she starts to talk about some points that are probably worth some honest exploration. The love of a child is all-consuming, and does have (non-sexual) physical elements to it that can be difficult to reconcile. I remember as a child reaching the age where cuddling with mom didn't feel right. Mom had a tough time dealing with that- to her, I was still her baby. I can see how it can be difficult for mothers to negotiate some fo these feelings.

Diogenes the Cynic
02-22-2011, 10:29 AM
What a load of crap. She's perving on her own baby, and no it's not normal to masturbate while breastfeeding, to think about one's baby while masturbating or to become sexually excited by putting lotion on their asses, etc. Jesus Christ. Imagine if a father said he jerked off while thinking about his baby daughter, or that he got wood when he was putting lotion on her ass. This is definitely NOT normal.

anu-la1979
02-22-2011, 10:31 AM
You can "uh" all you want, but I think being turned on by your breastfeeding baby and masturbating to his image is disgusting. What is it about attachment parenting in the US that it goes so off the rails?

Everything about this lady is phenomenally creepy, and makes me thankful I was raised by Republican non-hipsters with jobs and an aversion to the internet.

Hello Again
02-22-2011, 10:34 AM
Uh.While it's not sexual, I'd argue that for some women it falls somewhere on a continuum. Pretending like it's never ever even the slightest bit sexual to anyone ever just makes the women who do have this response feel shame and confusion.
It's not that I disagree with you. it's that the author does. She says "people say breastfeeding isn't sexual, but it is." She states that breastfeeding is an explicitly sexual act for her, so much so, that she's not sure if she can limit herself appropriately or acknowledge her child's indvidual identity. Sorry, she's grotesque.

Morgenstern
02-22-2011, 10:39 AM
That was cool. I felt like a teenage boy trying to see how far he could shoot.

I think the author has been talking to some strange teenagers. The contest is to see who can piss highest on the wall, not whack off for distance.

WhyNot
02-22-2011, 10:41 AM
Uh. Sexual (http://www.babycenter.com/404_is-it-normal-to-feel-aroused-when-im-breastfeeding_8927.bc) response (http://www.onehotmama.com/ask-rox/question20.htm) during (http://www.drwendywalsh.com/blog/2009/09/women-who-orgasm-while-breast-feeding/) breastfeeding (http://www.cafemom.com/answers/254020/Breastfeeding_orgasms) is relatively (http://www.itsamomsworld.com/turned-on-by-breastfeeding.html) common (http://scienceblogs.com/neurotopia/2009/11/oxytocin_this_ones_for_the_lad.php).

Sexual response during breastfeeding may be common. SEEKING sexual response during breastfeeding probably isn't. I say probably because I've never seen a study on it. But given our overwhelming taboo against sexual contact with children (which makes pedophilia uncommon), and given that I've had some pretty "out there" conversations with some pretty counterculture crunchy free love types and this has never, ever come up, I feel pretty confident in that statement, cites or no cites.

Is it possible that tens of thousands of women are getting their vibrators set up in their nursing spots every day and we're all just naive? Sure, it's possible. But I don't think it's very likely.

You can "uh" all you want, but I think being turned on by your breastfeeding baby and masturbating to his image is disgusting. What is it about attachment parenting in the US that it goes so off the rails? I think it's possible that some people are so completely overwhelmed by the cultural message that Love = Sex that their wires get crossed. It's abnormal, it's dangerous and it's veering into paraphila, but I can see how it happens. It's really just like people who can't imagine that sleeping (y'know, snoring sleeping, not sleeping as a euphemism for sex) with a child in the same bed could possibly be nonsexual. It's the parent who feels love for her child and doesn't know how to feel nonsexualized love.

But I think we should also remember that this isn't generally part of attachment parenting. This is a woman gone off the rails.

limegreen
02-22-2011, 10:43 AM
Okay, I breastfeed three kids, and the rush of milk letting down made my breasts sensitive, but not in the sexual way. And my milk squirted halfway across the room all by itself -- no sex involved. That woman is seriously disturbed, and I worry for the son when he starts getting mature. Maybe it was because I had three kids in five years, but my main thoughts while breastfeeding were: I'm thirsty and I'm tired.

Drain Bead
02-22-2011, 10:44 AM
Ew. Just...ew. This article is wank material for pedophiles. I feel like I need a shower now. I'd rather look at Goatse than read this shit again. Holy crap. This woman needs a whole fucking lot of psychological help. I'm on the fence about whether or not that child should be removed from her home.

Freudian Slit
02-22-2011, 11:30 AM
Also, this:

I want to be a model of erotic love for Felix to learn from.

is messed up. NO ONE wants to look at their parents as erotic models. I'm not saying parents aren't sexual beings but they don't have to be good role models in the sex department for their kids. This author makes Ayelet "I hope my son turns out to be gay so he'll love his mother forever" Waldman look normal.

People always say of breastfeeding, "It's sensual, not sexual." But it is sexual. He nuzzles and paws at me, grunts, throws his head from side to side as he latches on, his pink mouth warm on my nipple. He tries to get as much as he can into his mouth as his whole body burrows into me, his little heels digging into my thighs and still-soft belly. He kneads the breast he's nursing from with his hand to get more milk, and uses his free hand to tweak, twist and pull on my other nipple. I wonder if he's holding onto it protectively, so no one else can get it.

Unless your kid is Gussie from Tree Grows in Brooklyn, no, lady. He's not.

Vinyl Turnip
02-22-2011, 11:36 AM
I remember as a child reaching the age where cuddling with mom didn't feel right. Mom had a tough time dealing with that- to her, I was still her baby. I can see how it can be difficult for mothers to negotiate some fo these feelings.

Presumably she didn't negotiate them by forcing you to stick around while she broke out the Sybian.

tumbleddown
02-22-2011, 11:37 AM
So what about women who have orgasms during breastfeeding without masturbating? Are they wrong and bad because their bodies' natural responses to the stimulation of their nipples and the flood of oxytocin triggers an orgasmic response? Should those women stop nursing? Are they wrong if they breastfeed for longer or more frequently because the arousal is enjoyable, even if they don't reach orgasm and don't masturbate? Or is it only wrong if you actively stimulate your genitals during nursing?

Freudian Slit
02-22-2011, 11:38 AM
So what about women who have orgasms during breastfeeding without masturbating? Are they wrong and bad because their bodies' natural responses to the stimulation of their nipples and the flood of oxytocin triggers an orgasmic response? Should those women stop nursing? Are they wrong if they breastfeed for longer or more frequently because the arousal is enjoyable, even if they don't reach orgasm and don't masturbate? Or is it only wrong if you actively stimulate your genitals during nursing?

I'm going to go with the latter. I think it's one thing if you can't help it, but if you go out of your way to masturbate while the baby's still on your teat...why? Like, have you not mastered delayed gratification to the point where you can't put a kid down first?

Cyningablod
02-22-2011, 11:44 AM
No, the article is far far worse. It talks about parents and children sharing an "inherent sexuality" and a bunch of weird shit.

Here's an especially gross quotation: [...]

Oh. my. fucking. Og. :eek::eek::eek:

I was rather less skeeved out than others--but still skeeved out!--by the scenario described in the OP.

And then I read that quote, and...and...

Fuck, I don't even know. That's just ALL KINDS OF WRONG! :mad: :confused:

Anaamika
02-22-2011, 11:53 AM
Also, this:



is messed up. NO ONE wants to look at their parents as erotic models. I'm not saying parents aren't sexual beings but they don't have to be good role models in the sex department for their kids.

.

I don't agree with this...I absolutely think parents should be good sexual role models for their children. But it should not be overt, for heaven's sakes! What I mean is, I believe a mother especially should be seen to love her husband, and love sex with him, not through any overt actions by her, but just as a feeling - a model of a healthy sexual relationship with each other, so the daughter grows up and has a healthy sexual relationship and not a fucked-up one. I say mother because I feel that men have a different situation when it comes to sex - they are much more encouraged to love it from the start.

In regards to the OP, I don't think it's ick to have sexual feelings while breastfeeding, or even masturbate after. During is disturbing, yes. And I can't even read the article at work - my filters block it - but the author of the article seems like a whole different kettle of fish. Must she post that sort of stuff where her child will find it one day?

RTFirefly
02-22-2011, 11:55 AM
That would be the greatest sig line evah.
Your baby is not a dildo.Sorry, SY, but his one wins the sig line contest.

Diogenes the Cynic
02-22-2011, 12:03 PM
So what about women who have orgasms during breastfeeding without masturbating? Are they wrong and bad because their bodies' natural responses to the stimulation of their nipples and the flood of oxytocin triggers an orgasmic response?
If this actually happens, then yes. They are disgusting perverts.

Freudian Slit
02-22-2011, 12:04 PM
I don't agree with this...I absolutely think parents should be good sexual role models for their children. But it should not be overt, for heaven's sakes! What I mean is, I believe a mother especially should be seen to love her husband, and love sex with him, not through any overt actions by her, but just as a feeling - a model of a healthy sexual relationship with each other, so the daughter grows up and has a healthy sexual relationship and not a fucked-up one. I say mother because I feel that men have a different situation when it comes to sex - they are much more encouraged to love it from the start.

Well, I guess I'd classify that as relationship role models. You know, treat each other with love and respect. I just don't view that as a sexual thing--more of a relational/family type thing. Though my parents aren't super physically demonstrative, so...maybe that colors my view? I think what you're saying is a good thing, though, for all parents to do.

In regards to the OP, I don't think it's ick to have sexual feelings while breastfeeding, or even masturbate after. During is disturbing, yes. And I can't even read the article at work - my filters block it - but the author of the article seems like a whole different kettle of fish. Must she post that sort of stuff where her child will find it one day?

Yeah, I don't know what's up with some parents. Nerve.com is definitely a good site to avoid at work, though. (Sorry, I should probably have said that in my OP.) It's not so much that there's a lot of risque pictures but the content is very sexual. And kind of messed up as you can see. My personal favorite is the one by the anorexic girl who discovered she had gotten her period back when she went in to her college's health services with vaginal odor only to find out that there was a used tampon up her that she must have put in during a drunken bender.

beartato
02-22-2011, 12:10 PM
I'm going to go with the latter. I think it's one thing if you can't help it, but if you go out of your way to masturbate while the baby's still on your teat...why? Like, have you not mastered delayed gratification to the point where you can't put a kid down first?

Exactly. I've been in situations were I was turned on but it would have been inappropriate to just undo my pants and go for it. So you know what I did? Waited until an appropriate time.
I'm sure there are plenty of women who enjoy having their nipples sucked or licked by their partners, and notice feelings of arousal when breastfeeding. But it's not a sexual situation. When my doctor does a digital exam during a pap smear, I don't get turned on, because it's a non-sexual situation. When my husband does nearly the same thing, I do get turned on, because we're sexual partners. It's not hard to separate the situations in my mind. The girl who does my bikini waxes touches all sorts of delicate areas during a wax, and she's cute, and the studio is nice and home-y feeling and the bed's pretty comfortable. It's nice, but even if I found myself getting really turned on, I wouldn't see a need to act on it while I'm at the studio.

So yes, I think it's totally wack. A couple having sex in bed while a baby sleeps nearby? Not weird. Masturbating while holding your wide awake baby and breastfeeding? Weird. What kind of boundaries will she set with this kid? If you think a newborn has "inherent sexuality", how will you feel about a fifteen year old boy?

WhyNot
02-22-2011, 12:13 PM
So what about women who have orgasms during breastfeeding without masturbating? Are they wrong and bad because their bodies' natural responses to the stimulation of their nipples and the flood of oxytocin triggers an orgasmic response? Should those women stop nursing? Are they wrong if they breastfeed for longer or more frequently because the arousal is enjoyable, even if they don't reach orgasm and don't masturbate? Or is it only wrong if you actively stimulate your genitals during nursing?

I agree with Freudian. It's nothing to be ashamed of, it is natural, it does happen to plenty of women (although I don't think it happens to most women), it's not wrong or bad, it's simply physiology.

But again, that's not what this woman did. She wasn't nursing and found herself tingling in her nethers. She was planning, she was seeking sexual gratification from breastfeeding. Seeking orgasms from the actions or physical attributes of your child is not common, normal or healthy, especially when (as it seems to be for this woman) you lose your sexual attraction to your mate.

Vinyl Turnip
02-22-2011, 12:14 PM
If this actually happens, then yes. They are disgusting perverts.

Annnnnd here we go, right on schedule.

WhyNot
02-22-2011, 12:18 PM
Why is DtC's saying that any worse than the almost unanimous cry from other Dopers that masturbating while breastfeeding is disgusting and perverted? He's not allowed to have an opinion (which I don't agree with, but whatever) if it's a minority one?

Diogenes the Cynic
02-22-2011, 12:19 PM
Deriving sexual gratification from an infant is gross, period.

Freudian Slit
02-22-2011, 12:20 PM
Well, if someone can't help orgasming, that's not their fault. Condemning a planned activity is one thing but condemning a physiological response is different.

Diogenes the Cynic
02-22-2011, 12:20 PM
How can someone not help orgasming? That makes no sense to me. Of course they can help it.

Freudian Slit
02-22-2011, 12:23 PM
See tumbleddown's post on breast feeding. Also, rape victims have been known to have orgasms during the act of rape. Do you really think they were trying for the big O?

WhyNot
02-22-2011, 12:23 PM
How can someone not help orgasming? That makes no sense to me. Of course they can help it.

No, women sometimes can't, really, if the physical stimulation is there. I had no idea men could, but I'll take your word for it if you take mine for women.

Southern Yankee
02-22-2011, 12:59 PM
Sorry, SY, but his one wins the sig line contest.

Totally agree!

MeanOldLady
02-22-2011, 01:05 PM
Hell, I'll concede. I agree.

alice_in_wonderland
02-22-2011, 01:08 PM
It's gross.

If someone got aroused while breast feeding - uh, ok. I certainly don't - I feel the opposite of aroused, actually. In fact, when hubby and I are going to get it on I advise him to avoid the boobage 'cus if he starts fooling around there and I have let down it totally kills my mood. As in 100%. I realize that this is not universal.

However, feeling aroused while breast feeding and then seeking out your infant to get yourself off? Ugh. And feeling aroused by his naked body??? Jebus - that's foul. My baby is as cute as a button and sometimes when I'm changing him he grabs his junk and it's hilarious. I'll call my husband/mom/SIL to check it out because it's hilarious. I sure as hell don't get turned on by it. He's a little baby. Getting turned on by little babies is pretty much the definition of paedophilla, as far as I can tell. Gross.

Covered_In_Bees!
02-22-2011, 01:17 PM
I suspect Dio will be here any minute to calmly and rationally explain his line of thinking. The thread will maybe make it to three pages but will taper off in a day or two once everyone has said their piece and the thread will quietly drift off the front page.

Tom Tildrum
02-22-2011, 01:18 PM
...and I think her kid is going to be very very skeeved out when he reads this article 10 or 12 years from now.

Nah, they will have gone a lot farther together by then.

Alan Smithee
02-22-2011, 01:25 PM
I don't think this is criminal or necessarily the beginning of a screwed up parent-child relationship or anything, but it's kind of like making obscene gestures at a blind person. It doesn't hurt them, but it's still not decent behavior -- you're using innocent others for your own amusement. Supposing that people could retroactively give consent, imagine 100 babies who have reached the age of consent being informed by their mothers. I wonder what percent of them would say, "It's fine that you did that, mom."I think this is an excellent point. There is more to potential harm than physical damage. Our emotional relationships with one another are complex and significant, and fraught with consequences that can't be easily mapped out. I admitted from the beginning that cathecting* on an infant erotically was bad, but I read the OP as indicating that this wasn't happening in the case being discussed. I still haven't read the article, but I see now that I was wrong, and that the author of the article was doing just that.

OTOH, I think Dio has shown the potential for a reductio ad absurdum in condemning the behavior. It's normal for humans to respond to physical stimulation with a sexual response. It's normal to associate love and sex in some way.

When the woman said in the article that she could understand how some people could sexually abuse children, that was clearly a sign that she was doing the wrong thing, but I also think it is important for all of us to understand how people can do those things and how how those boundaries get crossed, and to analyze these things rationally rather than relying on our emotional reactions. People have been condemned and jailed for all kinds of behaviors that made someone go "Eww" but that were actually harmless, whether it was taking a bath or sleeping in a bed with an infant or having sex with an adult of the same sex. It's important that we figure out what's actually going on before we make judgments.

[* This is one of my favorite obscure words. It means to invest with emotional energy. The noun form is cathexis.]

Vinyl Turnip
02-22-2011, 01:32 PM
Right. You don't really want baby's first words to include the "safe word" you agreed on, do you?

even sven
02-22-2011, 01:52 PM
I think this is an excellent point. There is more to potential harm than physical damage. Our emotional relationships with one another are complex and significant, and fraught with consequences that can't be easily mapped out. I admitted from the beginning that cathecting* on an infant erotically was bad, but I read the OP as indicating that this wasn't happening in the case being discussed. I still haven't read the article, but I see now that I was wrong, and that the author of the article was doing just that.

OTOH, I think Dio has shown the potential for a reductio ad absurdum in condemning the behavior. It's normal for humans to respond to physical stimulation with a sexual response. It's normal to associate love and sex in some way.

When the woman said in the article that she could understand how some people could sexually abuse children, that was clearly a sign that she was doing the wrong thing, but I also think it is important for all of us to understand how people can do those things and how how those boundaries get crossed, and to analyze these things rationally rather than relying on our emotional reactions. People have been condemned and jailed for all kinds of behaviors that made someone go "Eww" but that were actually harmless, whether it was taking a bath or sleeping in a bed with an infant or having sex with an adult of the same sex. It's important that we figure out what's actually going on before we make judgments.

Thanks, Alan Smithee, for saying so eloquently what I completely failed to express. The author did cross some lines- though I suspect she is exaggerating some things for the sake of shock value/attention/ratings. She seems like a bit of a headcase and not the ideal mom, but I highly doubt she represents any serious harm to her child. In any case, I do think it's useful to frankly discuss difficult topics like this. While it's not "normal," she's probably not the first person in the universe to confront feelings like this, and honestly examining the issue is a lot more likely to lead to healthy solutions than saying "Anyone who feels anything like this is a disgusting human being and there is nothing else to say."

Heart of Dorkness
02-22-2011, 03:10 PM
Sorry, SY, but his one wins the sig line contest.
Totally agree!
Hell, I'll concede. I agree.

Yay.

I think this is what the kids these days are calling a "dubious distinction".

Hello Again
02-22-2011, 03:15 PM
I think the takaway from this article is, "if you find yourself jamming a baby into the gaping vagina void where your sense of self should be, seek professional assistance instead of rhapsodising on the internet about how good your baby is at fondling your tits."

cuauhtemoc
02-22-2011, 03:30 PM
I wanted to post "I think it's hot" just to see what happened, but I didn't have the guts.

Guinastasia
02-22-2011, 03:30 PM
Right. You don't really want baby's first words to include the "safe word" you agreed on, do you?

Second sig line winner!

Sarahfeena
02-22-2011, 03:54 PM
Thanks, Alan Smithee, for saying so eloquently what I completely failed to express. The author did cross some lines- though I suspect she is exaggerating some things for the sake of shock value/attention/ratings. She seems like a bit of a headcase and not the ideal mom, but I highly doubt she represents any serious harm to her child. In any case, I do think it's useful to frankly discuss difficult topics like this. While it's not "normal," she's probably not the first person in the universe to confront feelings like this, and honestly examining the issue is a lot more likely to lead to healthy solutions than saying "Anyone who feels anything like this is a disgusting human being and there is nothing else to say."

What do you mean by "confront feelings?" It's true that breastfeeding can cause sexual stimulation. Accepting this as a nursing mother, not freaking out, and redirecting any inappropriate thoughts is the appropriate way to deal with what is a purely physiological response. Running with it by using the baby as a sex toy is not.

Walmarticus
02-22-2011, 04:07 PM
Even if you can't help it- breastfeeding a baby makes you cum, it still isn't ok. Just don't breastfeed. It's icky, regardless of whether it's voluntary or not.

Alan Smithee
02-22-2011, 06:15 PM
Even if you can't help it- breastfeeding a baby makes you cum, it still isn't ok. Just don't breastfeed. It's icky, regardless of whether it's voluntary or not.Seriously? There are all kinds of well-documented benefits to breastfeeding infants. Yet you're willing to tell someone else to give up breastfeeding just because it squicks you out? Some people think all breastfeeding is icky. Some people think all orgasms are icky.

I found something out that was pretty shocking and disgusting: I was conceived while my parents were having sex! Talk about involving someone non-consensually! Frankly,I prefer not to think about it to this day, and I'd be happier if my parents had used a test tube. Fortunately, however, I was able to get over most of the horror of finding this out by the time I started kindergarten. I've even considered doing the same thing when I decide to conceive a child, though I imagine it will be just as icky to them when they find out.

In other news, icky does not imply wrong.

xoferew
02-22-2011, 06:34 PM
Alan, that's awful! I hope it was an accident! ;)

Alan Smithee
02-22-2011, 06:44 PM
No, I typed it on purpose. Sorry.














;)

DocCathode
02-22-2011, 06:48 PM
Please tell me this woman is making this up.

I'm by no means a vanilla person. In fact, the only person to accuse me of being vanilla was a pro domme who would have been ecstatic if I gave a speech on Kabbalah and then urinated on her. But, what this woman describes is just sick. Inadvertently getting arousal, or sexual pleasure from breast feeding a child is one thing. We can't always control our bodies or our subconscious. But this woman has deliberately, I say again deliberately, eroticised her child. This is twisted and wrong.

Vinyl Turnip
02-22-2011, 07:12 PM
Yeah, right. Like you prudes never played with a Baby Rub-One-Off doll.

Wesley Clark
02-22-2011, 07:19 PM
It is good she used her real name, now her kid's friends can dig that article up when he is in junior high.

Gender roles are interesting.

FloatyGimpy
02-22-2011, 07:24 PM
Aside from Kanicbird and Even Sven, I'm stunned that anyone would think this is anything other than WRONG. You know the saying "so open minded your brains fall out" well I think it really applies here. Using a child to help you achieve orgasm is called Child Abuse. If a father wrote an article about how every time he applies diaper cream to his infant daughter, he gets all turned on and starts wacking off, and worse, actively changed her diapers so he could rub diaper cream on her so he could jerk off at the same time, he'd be charged with sexual abuse.

How is this this any different? The baby is not physically harmed and won't remeber.

And if you're spontaniously cumming from nursing your baby, buy a breast pump and have at it, masturbate like a mother fuck, then give the poor kid a damn bottle!

xoferew
02-22-2011, 07:34 PM
I'm sure having some unintentional arousal response to breastfeeding happens to many women. But any NORMAL woman who finds it overwhelmingly sexual and is having major erotic thoughts about what the baby is doing to her, would I think be ashamed and traumatized and filled with doubt about her ability to be a mother or have a normal relationship with her kid who she hopes she isn't scarring for life, and she fears she needs help but also fears to confide in anyone...

...and not be casually blogging about it.

I think in this situation many normal woman might indeed give up breastfeeding, not because of what it is necessarily doing to the infant, but because of what it is doing to their own psyche and self-image and self-esteem.

Rysdad
02-22-2011, 08:11 PM
Ew.

Freudian Slit
02-22-2011, 09:14 PM
Yeah, right. Like you prudes never played with a Baby Rub-One-Off doll.

I know someone else has already won the thread but Vinnie Turnip, you need some recognition for this remark.

rhubarbarin
02-22-2011, 09:23 PM
My brain fell out I guess, I'm not bothered by this. I've certainly heard of women becoming aroused or having orgasms from breastfeeding before. I could care less if a mom decided to masturbate while feeding her infant.

I don't have kids, but the idea of doing it MYSELF is totally ew and I can't imagine I would ever go there, even if I found breastfeeding my kid arousing by itself.

Ferret Herder
02-22-2011, 09:26 PM
It is good she used her real name, now her kid's friends can dig that article up when he is in junior high.
Yep. I guess someone had to one-up the level of "whoa, TMI" baby stories on Facebook when people post about their kid fingerpainting with their diaper contents or whatever.

I'm a woman who's never been a mother and really still has little "ew, yuck" issues about the thought of breastfeeding. And yeah, I've been hearing for years all the comments from moms about "oh, but it's not sexual, it's just natural, and it even hurts at times, and you may get a happy bonding feeling" and - gee, thanks Ms. "I used my baby to help me wank and boy was it awesome" Mommy, you have just undone any progress of the persuasive arguments that Normal Mothers* have made over the years on my mental ease with the concept.

* Yes, I'm being judgmental. I'm really OK with that in this circumstance. And yes, I also know she's way screwed up past that level, that it's not just the rubbing one out during breastfeeding but wanting to be a sexual model for her kid, being turned on by his image, etc.

elfkin477
02-22-2011, 11:07 PM
It is good she used her real name, now her kid's friends can dig that article up when he is in junior high. And considering that people are still finding this article going on six years later (it's copyrighted 2005) it's sure to still be easily found in another six. Poor Felix.

even sven
02-22-2011, 11:12 PM
What do you mean by "confront feelings?" It's true that breastfeeding can cause sexual stimulation. Accepting this as a nursing mother, not freaking out, and redirecting any inappropriate thoughts is the appropriate way to deal with what is a purely physiological response. Running with it by using the baby as a sex toy is not.

Healthy response: "WTF? Well, I wasn't expecting that! Hey friends, have you ever experienced anything like this? I guess it makes sense- my boobs have been an erogenous zone for the last few decades and I am flooded with oxytocin. Golly, the body sure is a funny thing. I guess I better start looking at pictures of Dick Cheney while I breastfeed or I'm going to have to start scheduling some 'me' time after feeding. Man, people sure are wired weird!"

Unhealthy response: WTF? Holy shit, this is totally not happening. Nobody can ever know this is happening- I don't think I can even face other mothers with this terrible secret. I must be the worst mother ever. I'm a pedophile who is going to ruin her children. I'm sick and probably going to hell. OMG what is Billy touches his penis? It's probably my fault! I better swat him if he does that, because we are both going to hell. I should feel nothing but shame. I'm an evil person."

Obviously there is some room in between. The point is not that I think this is okay, but rather that I think it's a fruitful place for honest conversation about a touchy issue that is probably more common- though not to this degree- than we admit.

Carmady
02-22-2011, 11:19 PM
Unhealthy response: WTF? Holy shit, this is totally not happening. Nobody can ever know this is happening- I don't think I can even face other mothers with this terrible secret. I must be the worst mother ever. I'm a pedophile who is going to ruin her children. I'm sick and probably going to hell. OMG what is Billy touches his penis? It's probably my fault! I better swat him if he does that, because we are both going to hell. I should feel nothing but shame. I'm an evil person."

Obviously there is some room in between. The point is not that I think this is okay, but rather that I think it's a fruitful place for honest conversation about a touchy issue that is probably more common- though not to this degree- than we admit.


I wish I could say that this is a complete strawman, and that you apparently haven't read the thread.

Alas... Diogenes.

Still... it's a strawman, and intentionally using a baby to help you masturbate is (wait for it).... wrong.

Diogenes the Cynic
02-22-2011, 11:19 PM
There's nothing to discuss. There is no "room in between" when it comes to using infants for sexual gratification. Sexual attraction to an infant is the definition of pedophilia (actually infantophilia which is even more unimaginably fucked up) and no, it is not common for mothers to jerk off with their babies or to want to play sexually with their asses.

Alan Smithee
02-22-2011, 11:33 PM
I wish I could say that this is a complete strawman, and that you apparently haven't read the thread.

Alas... Diogenes.

Still... it's a strawman, and intentionally using a baby to help you masturbate is (wait for it).... wrong.Dio's like the Wizard of Oz, he brings straw men to life.

Part of me suspects that a lot of erotic feelings towards infants are normally sublimated and are the reason for all those "I'm going to eat you up!" games we play with them. The other part of me thinks that's way too Freudian to be true.

Polerius
02-23-2011, 03:15 AM
There's nothing to discuss. There is no "room in between" when it comes to using infants for sexual gratification. Sexual attraction to an infant is the definition of pedophilia (actually infantophilia which is even more unimaginably fucked up) and no, it is not common for mothers to jerk off with their babies or to want to play sexually with their asses.
Exactly

Autolycus
02-23-2011, 03:15 AM
If it ever caught on would it be called Masturbabying?

Polerius
02-23-2011, 03:21 AM
Exactly

ETA: Imagine a father writing an equivalent article: "I linger a little too long when I look at his little dimpled ass. I enjoy it too much when I put lotion on after his bath. I know it's normal to be turned on by your infant. ... Is it wrong to encourage him to touch himself? Is it okay to think of my baby when I masturbate?"

He would have the police ringing his doorbell two seconds after he hit "Submit" on the article.

This woman is just plain sick. She needs psychological help. It's a little late now to help the baby (since the article is from 2005). I hope she didn't have any more.

Walmarticus
02-23-2011, 12:06 PM
Seriously? There are all kinds of well-documented benefits to breastfeeding infants. Yet you're willing to tell someone else to give up breastfeeding just because it squicks you out? Some people think all breastfeeding is icky. Some people think all orgasms are icky.

I found something out that was pretty shocking and disgusting: I was conceived while my parents were having sex! Talk about involving someone non-consensually! Frankly,I prefer not to think about it to this day, and I'd be happier if my parents had used a test tube. Fortunately, however, I was able to get over most of the horror of finding this out by the time I started kindergarten. I've even considered doing the same thing when I decide to conceive a child, though I imagine it will be just as icky to them when they find out.

In other news, icky does not imply wrong.

Yes, I'm willing to tell someone to knock it off if breast feeding their child makes them orgasm. First, I can't think that a normal mother wouldn't feel a little squicked out herself. Now they're telling me about it?

Unauthorized Cinnamon
02-23-2011, 01:28 PM
Bring your man in to help with the sucking, or use a toy <or breast pump> like any other normal person.
Sorry; there's just no reason to do this. It's utilizing an unwitting, unconsenting person in one's sexual play.
And that's wrong, in my opinion.This puts my feelings into words perfectly.

Sometimes women feel aroused sensations while nursing due to the oxytocin being released (it's also released during orgasm and makes the uterus contract), and that is perfectly normal and non-perverse.

Sometimes couples who co-sleep with their baby will have sex while the baby is in the bed asleep. People have different comfort levels about it, but with a small baby who couldn't know what is happening, I don't see anything objectively wrong.

This though, is over the line, IMHO.

Nzinga, Seated
02-23-2011, 02:10 PM
I'm sure having some unintentional arousal response to breastfeeding happens to many women. But any NORMAL woman who finds it overwhelmingly sexual and is having major erotic thoughts about what the baby is doing to her, would I think be ashamed and traumatized and filled with doubt about her ability to be a mother or have a normal relationship with her kid who she hopes she isn't scarring for life, and she fears she needs help but also fears to confide in anyone...

...and not be casually blogging about it.

I think in this situation many normal woman might indeed give up breastfeeding, not because of what it is necessarily doing to the infant, but because of what it is doing to their own psyche and self-image and self-esteem.

Whoa. I don't agree with masterbabying, but if I were to become aroused by breastfeeding, I assure you, I would put my 'be logical' cap on and not go through all that turmoil you describe!

I don't believe in masterbabying. Period. It is a situation ripe for creating a sick relationship between baby and mom. Even if mom didn't realize it, some weird emotions must be coming up and projecting into the relationship with the child. Just wrong on mad levels.

For moms who aren't masterbabying, but still having aroused feelings; that is probably normal, but if it were happening to me, I would be probably decide to start using a pump.

Masterbabying. Great new word there, Autolycus

even sven
02-23-2011, 03:08 PM
I think fathers tend to grapple with issues of the hazy but sometimes real intersection between their children's sexuality and their own at a later date. Personally, I find a lot of the stuff surrounding weddings as rather directly addressing it- "giving away" the bride in a dress symbolizing her virginity status, the father-daughter dance, etc. Fathers feel a special sort of pride when they have a very beautiful daughter, and fathers do traditionally play a role in our society about controlling their daughter's sexuality. The person wielding the shot-gun in a shotgun wedding is usually daddy. It is a very complicated intersection.

These are not feelings like "I would like to have sex with this person". It's something more complicated, perhaps even more primal. It has nothing to do with any actual sex acts, but certainly you are a sexual role model and that does create a kind of connection. Your kids can tell if you are comfortable with your body, affectionate with your partner, faithful, judgmental about the sexuality of others, fond of non-sexual sensual pleasures, etc. To some degree, they will model those behaviors. And while you obviously don't want to have sex with your kids, you are aware of and do respond to their sexuality.

Anyway, I really, really, really doubt that the author wanted to actually perform sex acts with her baby or feels sexual attraction. Her masterbabying incident was short-lived and squicked her out, too. When she said she "lingers too long" or enjoys putting on lotion, I don't think it's "because he's hawt" but rather "because I'm so in love with him and find him so beautiful." Later in the piece she elaborates on "thinking about him while masturbating" and it's stuff like his doctor's appointments and his first words. It's not like she's thinking about sex acts with him. Strange, gross, and unhealthy? sure. Evil pedophile who will harm her children? Naw.

JohnT
02-23-2011, 03:18 PM
I had hoped, by 120 responses in, I would be able to find this discussion redirected to "odd times and/or places you've masturbated", but you people stubbornly stick to the topic. WTF?!?

:p

Hello Again
02-23-2011, 09:39 PM
. I hope she didn't have any more.
Actually, she did -- and produced an entire obviously-intended-to-shock-the-plebes play about her BabyLovin' adventures.

http://gothamist.com/2008/04/17/christen_cliffo.php

Ostrya
02-23-2011, 09:52 PM
Thanks for the tip on starting a new website.

Khaki Campbell
02-24-2011, 12:56 AM
http://gothamist.com/2008/04/17/christen_cliffo.php

What a stupid shirt, worn by an über-sick cunt. Lemmy Kilmister should punch her in the face. Repeatedly.

outlierrn
02-24-2011, 02:38 AM
I dunno, I'd hit that.

Snarky_Kong
02-24-2011, 03:38 AM
"Hey, lets browse the dope at 4 am. La dad deee, scrolling past threads, oh 'masturbation!' what's that one about..... AAHHHHHA HHHHHH AHHHHHHH!"

TruCelt
02-24-2011, 05:47 AM
Revolting.

Sarahfeena
02-24-2011, 08:05 AM
Healthy response: "WTF? Well, I wasn't expecting that! Hey friends, have you ever experienced anything like this? I guess it makes sense- my boobs have been an erogenous zone for the last few decades and I am flooded with oxytocin. Golly, the body sure is a funny thing. I guess I better start looking at pictures of Dick Cheney while I breastfeed or I'm going to have to start scheduling some 'me' time after feeding. Man, people sure are wired weird!"

Unhealthy response: WTF? Holy shit, this is totally not happening. Nobody can ever know this is happening- I don't think I can even face other mothers with this terrible secret. I must be the worst mother ever. I'm a pedophile who is going to ruin her children. I'm sick and probably going to hell. OMG what is Billy touches his penis? It's probably my fault! I better swat him if he does that, because we are both going to hell. I should feel nothing but shame. I'm an evil person."

Obviously there is some room in between. The point is not that I think this is okay, but rather that I think it's a fruitful place for honest conversation about a touchy issue that is probably more common- though not to this degree- than we admit.

If we were talking about having honest conversation about a touchy issue, well then I'd be right with you.

Erdosain
02-24-2011, 10:11 AM
Of course she wrote a one-woman play about this. Of course.

Vinyl Turnip
02-24-2011, 12:12 PM
If only the author of that "pedophile manual" had written a play and marketed his stuff to edgy alterna-weeklies...

Jack Batty
02-24-2011, 12:30 PM
I would just like to take this opportunity to, once again, thank the mods for banning Cesario.

Crown Prince of Irony
02-25-2011, 12:23 PM
My wife has told me before that the act of breastfeeding occasionally serves as a mild involuntary stimulant - she's not comfortable with it, but understands what's going on physically. And she took one look at the thread title and said "What the fuck? Ewww!"

Consent issues aside, there's a singular purpose to breastfeeding, and to make it something sexual is completely out of bounds, and can fundamentally warp the mother-child bond that breastfeeding helps foster.

In short - if you must rub one out whilst having your ta-tas manipulated, put the damn baby down and grab a pump, or your husband, or something.

Guinastasia
02-26-2011, 11:36 AM
"Love your baby, but don't like, LOVE your baby."