MilliCal wants to see Avenue Q [Archive] - Straight Dope Message Board

CalMeacham

03-22-2011, 11:48 AM

Our 13 year old daughter, fresh from her Spelling Bee triumph, has announced that she and her friend want to go see Avenue Q. She pointed out that the advertisement says "Ages 13 and up". Her friend has her parents' permission, and Pepper Mill says it's up to me.

She's been exposed to lots of "mature" stuff of late, and she's a sharp kid. I'm inclined to let her (one of us will have to go with them -- the logistics alone demand it, but I'g go anyway).

What do you folks think?

Motorgirl

03-22-2011, 11:55 AM

I've seen it. There are a few "mature audience" parts that I can recall but I don't remember them being super outrageous. I've spoilered what I remember, in case you are not familiar with the show.

Muppet sex, a little graphic and apt to embarrass a 13-year-old if her dad is there
"The Internet is for Porn" song - implied masturbation and the rest that goes with porn
A few swear words but not enough to be obnoxious - some hells and damns IIRC

ETA: If it were my 13 year old and she was reasonably mature and not emotionally delicate, I'd take her.

Mr. Excellent

03-22-2011, 12:01 PM

I think it's fine for a bright 13-year-old - yes, there are some decidedly raunchy bits, but nothing too explicit. (These are puppets, after all). And it's a genuinely good play - if Millicall is a theatre nerd in the making, it's well worth seeing.

My only real caveat is that you'll probably get more out of it than your kid will. The play's really about the aimlessness that comes with your mid-twenties, early thirties - I thought the play was funny in high school, but it didn't really strike a chord until after law school.

Mama Zappa

03-22-2011, 12:16 PM

I'd let her go, given what you describe. I took Moon Unit to New York last year for her 13th birthday and would have taken her (they had discount tix at the TKTS station) but she wanted to do something else that evening.

DooWahDiddy

03-22-2011, 12:21 PM

Whoo, that's a tough one. 13 is right on the brink of what I would think is an acceptable age for the show (disclaimer: I don't have kids). Personally I would probably wait until 14 or 15, but YMMV.

The most worrisome scene (read: embarrassing for both you and your daughter) is probably:

The two puppets are having sex in various positions, going at it like animals. Screaming orgasms, that kind of thing. The song is called "You Can Be as Loud as the Hell You Want (When You're Making Love)". At one point, the male puppet says "Hey, you can't put your finger there... gulp... PUT YOUR FINGER THERE!!"

Another song:
"My Girlfriend Who Lives in Canada", contains the line "And I can't wait to eat her pussy again."

Don't get me wrong; it's hilarious. And surprisingly heartwarming. But of course only you know what's appropriate for your children.

tdn

03-22-2011, 12:25 PM

Having met that particular 13-year-old, it seems a little sophisticated for her. Not that she's not smart enough, but she seems a little innocent for it.

Cyberhwk

03-22-2011, 07:13 PM

Watching a vegetarian being told she just ate chicken
Or watching a frat boy realize just what he put his dick in!
Being on the elevator when somebody shouts "Hold the door!"

No!!! It's..Schadenfreude!...
FUCK YOU LADY!!! That's what stairs are for!
:D I'm torn. Thirteen is a little young, but it's hilariously funny. One of my favs. Out of curiosity, what informed was your daughter's friend's parents. "Mom it's a show about PUPPETS! I've watched Bert and Ernie when I was 5!" ;)

Meyer6

03-22-2011, 08:42 PM

I loved Avenue Q, but it is pretty raunchy. It probably depends on the 13 year old. To me it's not so much that she will see something traumatizing as that she will likely not understand all the innuendo and it seems like that would hamper enjoyment of the show. I know I wouldn't have gotten a lot of that show at 13, but I was a bit of a late bloomer, maybe kids are more advanced these days.

I do agree with Mr.Excellent that the play is really about the loss of youth, the meandering aimlessness of early adulthood, and the realization that your childhood dreams are not likely to come true (at least not easily). I don't know how much a 13 year old understand that either.

But it is a good play. She would probably enjoy many parts of it. My Dad took me to see Les Miserables at around the same age and I had a great time, but looking back on it I really don't think I understood the plot at all. Just going to a big Broadway style show is fun though, especially if she's into theatre and musicals.

RealityChuck

03-22-2011, 09:23 PM

It's definitely a play for adults -- and not even young adults, since the themes really are concerns of those around 30. There's a lot of explicitness and bawdy songs; if she doesn't know the basis for them, she isn't going to understand.

MeanOldLady

03-22-2011, 09:43 PM

I'd take her to it.

My first thought was "It's too grown up for her." Then I thought back to [redacted] years ago when I was 13 and thought about what I watched. There's not a whole lot that is just plain too raunchy for a mature, bright person of that age, and of the things that are, I wouldn't definitively declare Avenue Q among them. So yes, at times it is a bit risque, but not over the top for a precocious teenager. Yes, the play is grown up, despite the presence of muppets, and some of the humor she won't truly get. She might understand "This is a joke," but may not really get it, get it the way grown ups do, but so what? A lot of the humor is accessible to her age group, and my biggest reservation surrounds some mild-to-intermediate raunchiness that might not be okay for some kids. I would never advise against bringing her to the play because some elements of the humor or overarching theme she likely cannot relate to.

I think DooWahDiddy has it when he says the toughest part might be sitting through some of the raunchiest scenes with her. I don't know how to give advice around here, because often I think something might be awkward, then this crowd tells me I need to be more open-minded. If your daughter can handle intermittent semi-crude sex jokes, and you don't mind being next to her during them, have at it.

anfernee06

03-23-2011, 12:04 AM

interesting,..

CalMeacham

03-23-2011, 06:34 AM

I think DooWahDiddy has it when he says the toughest part might be sitting through some of the raunchiest scenes with her. I don't know how to give advice around here, because often I think something might be awkward, then this crowd tells me I need to be more open-minded. If your daughter can handle intermittent semi-crude sex jokes, and you don't mind being next to her during them, have at it.

I pointed out precisely this issue to her, knowing that sex stuff makes our daughter uncomfortable around us, her parents (when something like this shows up on TV, her usual response is to walk out of the room), but she says it won't be a problem.

Zebra

03-23-2011, 06:39 AM

She doesn't want to see Daniel Radcliff in How to Succeed?

CalMeacham

03-23-2011, 06:54 AM

Nope. She's not in love with Radcliff. And we're not going to NYC*

*although I grew up going to Broadway shows. But prices have gone way the heck up since then.

legalsnugs

03-23-2011, 09:34 AM

Um, it's not just the big sex scene (although once she sees muppets 69, she'll never be able to watch Sesame Street the same way again), there are also themes regarding drugs, partying, cheating, masturbation and homosexuality. I vote that 13 is too young for Avenue Q. (ETA: Although it has muppets in it, it's not a kid show.) She wont understand the issues facing young adults and she won't get the humor of most of it. She may not understand what all the muppets are doing in the sex scene (God, I hope she doesn't!), but she could be shocked (I sure would have been at 13!). Thirteen is still pretty young. Can't you just let her be a kid for a couple more years?

Just my two cents. You wanted opinions.

a35362

03-23-2011, 09:40 AM

I think I'm a little young to see this! Raunchy Muppets? WTH? :confused:

NAF1138

03-23-2011, 09:54 AM

It's right on the line. It is graphically sexual at points, but I remember being 13 and it isn't anything I wasn't already sort of kind of exposed to.

But seeing it with you guys might be a bit much.
YT link to the music from the sex scene. This is all acted out with puppets. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPqOx-Smqrc&playnext=1&list=PLA7B534DA9C23D480) It's dark, but it's still fairly graphic. The rest is just language, but this is what I thought of as maybe being too much.

RealityChuck

03-23-2011, 10:45 AM

I think I'm a little young to see this! Raunchy Muppets? WTH? :confused:You should have seen the real thing -- the Land of Gorch sketches on the first season of SNL, which had a Muppet sex scene (though not as graphic as Avenue Q.)

a35362

03-23-2011, 11:11 AM

What does your daughter think she's getting? Why does she want to see it? Because it's naughty and she wants to be cool? Because it's Muppets?

I'm thinking there is better entertainment out there for someone her age. I second the folks who want to preserve her innocence a while longer. She doesn't have to grow up too fast. (I'm someone who was appalled by the man bringing his eight-year-old to The Dark Knight, but he probably didn't know what he was getting into.)

CalMeacham

03-23-2011, 12:03 PM

What does your daughter think she's getting? Why does she want to see it? Because it's naughty and she wants to be cool? Because it's Muppets?

She's surprisingly sophisticated -- she's listened to some of the songs, and knows this isn't Sesame Street muppets. She's 13, not 5. And, as the thread title says, this is something she wants to do, not something I'm dragging her to. It's not a matter of "letting her keep her childhood" -- she's the one who wants to discover this, and who will certainly find ways to access "forbidden" entertainment. Heck, I did, long before the Internet.

NAF1138

03-23-2011, 12:46 PM

I had a thought. If you decide that the you can be as loud as the hell you want when you are making love sequence is ok for her, maybe you can not sit with her durring the show so as to minimize the embarrasment factor and up the enjoyment.

I wouldn't be comfortable watching that scene with my mom now, and I have my own kid. I would have died at 13. Reminds me of when my mom and I went to the movies when I was 14 or so and walked into a movie by the director of a neat film we had just seen on video called Shallow Grave, but didn't know anything else about it. Trainspotting turned out to be very uncomfortable to watch with my mom right there.

CalMeacham

03-23-2011, 01:16 PM

I had a similar experience going to see Dona Flor and her Two Husbands with my father. I wasn't expecting such an explicit sex scene. And I was in grad school at the time.

He leaned over to me after the movie and said : "Your uncle (name withheld) was like that."

Eonwe

03-23-2011, 01:24 PM

I teach middle school drama, and I am pretty amazed at the fact that many of my kids will sing the songs to this show. It's fairly adult (though comic, which somehow gets a pass on a lot of parents' appropriate-o-meter), and there is nothing weirder than being in a room with a bunch of 11-13 year olds singing Schadenfreude, and then inevitably start singing The Internet is for Porn.

Only you know your kid, but my generic vote is "too young."

Cliffy

03-23-2011, 04:05 PM

I join the slight majority -- it'd be OK for a typical 13 year old, but a parent would be horrified at the idea of his 13 year old being exposed to it. And probably the issues of being listless and overeducated in your 20's wouldn't make a lot of sense to someone that age. (The first or second song is, IIRC, "What Do You Do With a B.A. In English?") But it is hilarious.

--Cliffy

Cat Fight

03-23-2011, 10:05 PM

She's surprisingly sophisticated -- she's listened to some of the songs, and knows this isn't Sesame Street muppets. She's 13, not 5. And, as the thread title says, this is something she wants to do, not something I'm dragging her to. It's not a matter of "letting her keep her childhood" -- she's the one who wants to discover this, and who will certainly find ways to access "forbidden" entertainment. Heck, I did, long before the Internet.

I don't doubt that a 13-year-old can love the show and appreciate most of its humor (or even like it on a different level, not getting all the jokes – kind of like the actual Muppets or Sesame Street). But as others have mentioned, unless you two are remarkably open, expect her to (or you) to go a few shades of red over some of the content.

Cyberhwk

03-24-2011, 02:25 AM

One thing I notice is that, while people are disagreeing on the content, nearly everyone ends their post with, "But it's absolutely hilarious" or "the show is still awesome." Which I wholeheartedly agree. It's my second fav behind Les Mis.

I was initially skeptical, but now that I think about it, if it were my kid, I'd sit her down, explain it, say I wasn't 100% sure the content was appropriate for her, or that she'd appreciate or understand the humor, but good theater is good theater and I wouldn't want to deny her the experience.

DooWahDiddy

03-24-2011, 11:04 AM

Well yeah... nobody's questioning the quality of the work. But that's not the discussion here. The question is about the appropriateness of the work for a 13-year-old girl. If we were talking about Les Mis I'd say go for it, because it's at least somewhat historical, and there are characters (Cosette and Eponine) she may be able to identify with. But in a show full of questions like "What do I do now that I've graduated college?", "Should I sleep with that stripper even though I like this other girl?" and "What good is the internet if not for porn?", it's hard to see what she would get out of it.

CalMeacham

03-24-2011, 11:22 AM

it's hard to see what she would get out of it

She likes the music. Really -- I think that's the main interest. The risque nature of the work gives it an added kick, plus the fact that she'd be seeing something grown up. But the music is the hook. She and her friends socialize around their iPods.

Mtgman

03-24-2011, 12:38 PM

My kids have grown up in and around the theatre, and we have been listening to Avenue Q's cast album for years. My eight year old can sing the songs and it's been a great opportunity to have some of those awkward discussions. Rent was one of those when we first let the older kids see it several years ago. We had a lot of discussions about drug/alcohol abuse, addiction, homelessness, AIDS, etc.

Last year my daughter, who as 14 at the time, went with me to Avenue Q when it came to town. Our season seats are third row center orchestra and up close you can really see the fur fly. She loved it. Of course she's a very bright kid and we've done our best to NOT shelter her, including seeking out comprehensive sex ed classes for her through church and including her in a lot of more grown up activities like working crew for our local theatres.

So I think it's a great idea. In fact if we had it to do all over again I'd take her to Spring Awakening and there's real people nudity and very realistic simulations of real sex acts on stage in that one. Using it as a springboard for those conversations which normally don't pop up in everyday life is highly recommended.

Enjoy,
Steven

Bricker

03-24-2011, 12:54 PM

MsRobyn

03-25-2011, 07:27 AM

FWIW, I took my parents to see the touring production of Cabaret and I was embarrassed by some of the jokes. And I was in my 20s at the time.

You know MilliCal better than anyone, but my vote is for allowing her to see Avenue Q. It's a great show and it's so over-the-top that it won't go over her head.

CalMeacham

03-25-2011, 07:47 AM

Like the first husband or the second??

The first (now dead) husband. He was implying that the uncle was a Lothario type, not literally like the character, though.

ducati

03-25-2011, 10:59 AM

I saw Airplane in the theater with my parents. I was 14, and never been so embarassed in my life.

YMMV

Ludy

03-25-2011, 01:17 PM

DooWahDiddy

03-25-2011, 01:49 PM

...it's a Rosie O'Donnell movie about S&M.

I'm sending you a bill for the brain bleach I had to go buy.

Cal, honestly, it sounds like you've got your mind made up already. So go for it. I'm sure it'll be fine; she'll laugh, you'll laugh, you both might be uncomfortable during certain scenes but the overall tone of optimism will probably prevail. But, I mean, you know, you asked for opinions and we were just giving them to you and all that.

MeanOldLady

03-25-2011, 03:34 PM

I saw Airplane in the theater with my parents. I was 14, and never been so embarassed in my life.

YMMVOh yes, that reminds me. I saw one of those Naked Gun movies when I was 13 or so with my mom. Awkward!

iamthewalrus(:3=

03-25-2011, 03:59 PM

Not knowing what it was about my Mom took me to see Exit to Eden* when I was 13. Sure I was a bit embarrassed at the time, but its a great story know, and I think she was more embarrassed about it than I was. You know your kid, I say go for it.

*for those who don't know, it's a Rosie O'Donnell movie about S&M.Ha ha.

I also watched this movie at about that age with my mom. Or rather, we watched part of it, then she paused it and said "I'm going to watch the rest of this movie, and it's fine with me if you watch the rest, but I think I'd be more comfortable if we didn't watch it together." I said "Sounds good, let me know when you're done" and walked out of the room.

As for MilliCal seeing Ave. Q, I think that she's still really too young to really get some of it. I'm referring, of course, to Gary Coleman. Is Gary still in it? I heard they were going to change at least some of it after he died.

Unauthorized Cinnamon

03-25-2011, 04:32 PM

Oh no, it's definitely too raunchy and adult and disturbing. You should take her to see something more classic and old timey, like Spring Awakening. :D

(Seriously, I started reading Stephen King at 12. I watched Blazing Saddles for decades before I got some of the jokes. She'll be fine. She'll be a bit embarrassed at you being there while she watches gung-ho puppet sex, but overall it'll be a good experience.)

Red Barchetta

03-25-2011, 05:11 PM

As for MilliCal seeing Ave. Q, I think that she's still really too young to really get some of it. I'm referring, of course, to Gary Coleman. Is Gary still in it? I heard they were going to change at least some of it after he died.

Yes, he (she?) is. They changed about 10 words; it's still the same show.

NAF1138

03-25-2011, 07:15 PM

Yes, he (she?) is. They changed about 10 words; it's still the same show.

Did they take out the "I thought you were dead" line?

CalMeacham

03-27-2011, 06:15 PM

Just got home from the show.

1.) a good time was had by all.

2.) the ushers and random people asked us repeatedly if we were aware that this show was not "kid-friendly", after seeing MilliCal and her friend. We assured them that we were. and that, in fact, coming was their idea.

3.) i sw at least two other 13-year olds (or thereabouts) in the audience. And one girl who could not possibly have been older than 5. I wonder how many times her parents got asked about it. And what she thought of the show.

4.) Since MiliCal and her friend had already heard the songs on their iPods, there were no major surprises. There were two incredibly gay guys sitting in front of us, which added an interesting counterpoint. miliCal's friend, I found out, has been collecting the "M/M Romances" described in another current thread. (But only the "fuzzy" ones, she says. Non-explicit. Whew. Only it means that she knows explicit ones exist.)

5.) he show was well-done and entertaining. I don't think the plot of young adult disillusionment was lost on either MiliCal or her friend.

6.) "Gary Coleman" is, indeed, in the show, played by a black woman. There was no "I thought you were dead" line. If they changed any others, I don't know about it, since I hadn't seen the show before.