The Killing -- new series on AMC

[AuntiePam]

Debuts this Sunday.

From the Kansas City Star:

"Each episode of “The Killing” will depict 24 hours in the life of the investigation. That’s drawing comparisons to “24” from some critics, including NPR’s David Bianculli, who thinks the investigators, played by Mireille Enos and Joel Kinnaman, also interact a lot like Mulder and Scully from “The X-Files.” Other critics think the intertwined storylines about politics of the town are reminiscent of “The Wire” and “Murder One.”

Still, those are all awesome shows to draw from, and everyone who’s seen “The Killing” seems to like it. And just to be clear, “The Killing” is based on an acclaimed, addictive Danish TV series titled “The Crime.”"

It's being filmed in Seattle, which was home for 25 years.

Sounds good -- what do you think? I'm hoping it'll hold me for drama until Breaking Bad comes back.

[Erdosain]

I'd prefer to watch the Danish original first, but since I don't have that option, I'll watch this one. AMC is on a roll.

[guizot]

I haven't seen the Danish one. (But then, I'm not Danish, so don't shoot me.)

However, what I'd really like to see in this is a murder mystery where the identification of the murderer isn't really the point, but just a McGuffin.

[AuntiePam]

I missed most of the first hour -- thought it started at 9 p.m. -- but I really liked what I saw (the second hour).

My favorite part was when Holder (the detective) faked out the girls to find the cage. That had me going for awhile -- not long though. You don't get this old and watch as much TV as I have without spotting a fakeout.

I hope they don't have it raining all the time though. Most of Seattle's "rain" is a gentle mist. I spent most of my time there without owning an umbrella.

[obfusciatrist]

Yeah, TV never does Seattle (or Portland) rain right, but it is late October/early November so constant reasonably heavy rain isn't unreasonable. And I grew up there and never owned an umbrella (just got wet, later was dry).

Quite enjoyed it so far.

The part that got to me a bit was

the four level deep "discovery" of the body. The police finding the body, dad seeing the police find the body, mom hearing his reaction on the phone, and her kids watching her with no idea what is going on but it scares them.

[Tarwater]

It seems like it's going to be a fairly mediocre show. It's one step above other cop procedurals, but it's operating in a genre that's really become threadbare and tedious, and I think you can see that in a lot of the characters here, many of whom are arch-types straight out of How to Write a Cop Show 101. The only character worth watching is Holder, played brilliantly by Joel Kinnaman. He really steals every scene he's in. There's nothing original or likeable about any of the other supporting characters, with the possible exception of Rosie's mother, and maybe her father, who's been struck from the same lower middle class, blue collar proud hard-working loveable father mold they use for every other episodic cop procedural where they need a caring parent. And Linden is basically every female copy in every television show ever made, with the added bonus of being the Competent Detective Working One Last Case Before She Leaves. Hopefully they'll start to subvert some of the expectations and standards of the genre, otherwise I can't see it accomplishing a whole lot, in terms of being a good and worthwhile show.

[groovie]

Dang. I was hoping that AMC would do a good job with this, but based on your comments perhaps not. I'll check out the pilot anyway.

[ShelliBean]

I really liked it. I originally felt I didn't have a place in my life for another cop/crime drama but I decided to give it a shot when AMC force fed me the commercials for the past two days (earned your paycheck that time, didn't you Mr. Marketing Guy?)

The family is the typical blue collar, don't need money because we've got love, tough mom/loveable dad type. Part of the problem with them on things like Law and Order is that you only see them for 5 minutes and get to watch them Kubler-Ross in about half that time so you never really give a crap about them. The discovery mentioned by obfusciatrist was pretty damn good. The comment by the aunt at the end made me think that we aren't going to do the "10 minutes and everyone pulls together out of strength and love" bit. I found it just heartbreaking on the beach when the dad looks at the youngest kid and says, "We're gonna be ok. Right?" I like that there is some stuff that you just don't think about - what do you do with your kids when the cops are going through your house? You have to find something to do, it doesn't just magically happen during commercial.

When Linden picked that picture up and kissed it with the sweet little 6 year old boy I thought "oh shit, apple of her eye blah blah blah" and was pleasantly surprised to see that she had a pain in the ass teenager that is messed up with his move to a new city and stepfather, and that she keeps finding places for him to stay when she works overtime - because that's more like what really happens (to other moms, I don't know any detectives).

And I love the new partner, Holder. I honestly thought he was a creeper for a minute there - you don't know the characters. I also liked the body ID. The music and the way it was handled reminded me of the killing scene (maybe the body finding scene, been a while) of Dead Man Walking.

Unless it takes a nose dive, I'm going to keep watching. The Apprentice has been shifted to hulu status.

[Snickers]

So I saw the commercials, but not the series opener. Wasn't this called Twin Peaks back in the 80s?

[drm]

liked about 90%, but I did roll my eyes a few times with some of the more melodramatic scenes (like the one of the father looking at the picture his daughter drew...there were a few others). Also, those two boys (brothers of the victim) aren't great actors, but what can you expect from a kid.

Otherwise, I thought it was really good.

[simster]

It seems like it's going to be a fairly mediocre show. It's one step above other cop procedurals, but it's operating in a genre that's really become threadbare and tedious, and I think you can see that in a lot of the characters here, many of whom are arch-types straight out of How to Write a Cop Show 101. The only character worth watching is Holder, played brilliantly by Joel Kinnaman. He really steals every scene he's in. There's nothing original or likeable about any of the other supporting characters, with the possible exception of Rosie's mother, and maybe her father, who's been struck from the same lower middle class, blue collar proud hard-working loveable father mold they use for every other episodic cop procedural where they need a caring parent. And Linden is basically every female copy in every television show ever made, with the added bonus of being the Competent Detective Working One Last Case Before She Leaves. Hopefully they'll start to subvert some of the expectations and standards of the genre, otherwise I can't see it accomplishing a whole lot, in terms of being a good and worthwhile show.

This - thank you - couldn't quite get it written out -

It seems they've gone out of the way to make every character 'unlikeable' to try and throw off the scent of who the killer is - they're trying too hard.

not sure of his name, but the male assistant to the guy running for office - he's the killer - he's the only one they have gone out of the way to make 'likeable' - it's clearly not the opposition polical (too easy) - its not the family (too honestly distraught) - its not eh jerk boyfriend (again, too easy) -

[obfusciatrist]

not sure of his name, but the male assistant to the guy running for office - he's the killer - he's the only one they have gone out of the way to make 'likeable' - it's clearly not the opposition polical (too easy) - its not the family (too honestly distraught) - its not eh jerk boyfriend (again, too easy) -

Weird, you thought everybody else was unlikeable and the only one I thought was particularly unlikeable is the one you thought they were trying to make likable.

What part of "here's how we exploit personal tragedy for political gain" is supposed to make him likable? My thinking was "I hope is isn't him because they're trying to make him look a dick, and so that's too obvious."

If it were and episode of SVU it would turn out to be the female detectives son and she's known it all along and is working to cover it up so that her S&M fetishism (the son found the pictures and it scarred him psychosexually) doesn't come to light.

[simster]

Weird, you thought everybody else was unlikeable and the only one I thought was particularly unlikeable is the one you thought they were trying to make likable.

What part of "here's how we exploit personal tragedy for political gain" is supposed to make him likable? My thinking was "I hope is isn't him because they're trying to make him look a dick, and so that's too obvious."

If it were and episode of SVU it would turn out to be the female detectives son and she's known it all along and is working to cover it up so that her S&M fetishism (the son found the pictures and it scarred him psychosexually) doesn't come to light.

well, ok 'likeable' in the sense that of the entire bunch, he's less unlikeable than most of the others - he's clean cut, energetic and appears 'innocent' - all political folks try to do what he's doing, so he was set up to make the candidate seem 'more honorable' at that point of the episode - of course, by the time its over it'll be the detective's boss - or fiance - since niether got much screen time and were also presented as reasonably nice folks.

[salinqmind]

I'm not overwhelmed. I was hoping it would be much more entrancing than I found it to be, but I'll keep watching as I feel it will get much better. Yes, most everyone is unlikeable. That politician? Automatically loathesome, because, duh, he's a politician, a big phoney like a TV evangelist. The spoiled rich kid and his father, both loathesome. I'm counting on the show to get better. The thing that's worrying me is, the detective's wedding is delayed, and though the fiance sounded like an understanding guy, I'm afraid he's going to go off on her and say "get your ass home right now or we're through".

[obfusciatrist]

I guess where I get thrown off is I didn't find any of the characters (except the rich kid) to be presented as particularly unlikeable. Just not standard TV archetypes of "good person" or "bad person."

But I guess that's why it it's called subjective.

[AuntiePam]

The thing that's worrying me is, the detective's wedding is delayed, and though the fiance sounded like an understanding guy, I'm afraid he's going to go off on her and say "get your ass home right now or we're through".

Yep, that situation would be annoying. But we don't know why she's moving to San Diego (or Sonoma?), wherever. How did they meet? Did they meet in Seattle and he took a job in California? We don't know yet, I guess. If he's expecting her to leave her job and take the kid away from his friends, fiance better stay understanding.

Delaying the wedding should be no big deal anyway. Didn't she say she had three weeks to plan a wedding? Maybe she's not that interested in getting married.

I managed to catch most of what I missed but still didn't get the beginning. Why were the detectives so pissed off at the dad? They show up at his house, leave a card with the wife and say dad needs to call them. Then the detective sees the pink bicycle and asks mom "Do you have a daughter?" That was confusing. Why were they there in the first place? Did dad not tell his wife that he'd reported Rosie missing? Why were they mad at the dad?

[Son of a Rich]

Are television viewers ever going to be murdered out? Has there ever been a dramatic cop/detective show whose plots weren't centered around someone being murdered?

[AuntiePam]

Are television viewers ever going to be murdered out? Has there ever been a dramatic cop/detective show whose plots weren't centered around someone being murdered?

The Wire. There were killings, but the focus of law enforcement was busting the drug ring.

[tarragon918]

Yep, that situation would be annoying. But we don't know why she's moving to San Diego (or Sonoma?), wherever. How did they meet? Did they meet in Seattle and he took a job in California? We don't know yet, I guess. If he's expecting her to leave her job and take the kid away from his friends, fiance better stay understanding.

Delaying the wedding should be no big deal anyway. Didn't she say she had three weeks to plan a wedding? Maybe she's not that interested in getting married.

I managed to catch most of what I missed but still didn't get the beginning. Why were the detectives so pissed off at the dad? They show up at his house, leave a card with the wife and say dad needs to call them. Then the detective sees the pink bicycle and asks mom "Do you have a daughter?" That was confusing. Why were they there in the first place? Did dad not tell his wife that he'd reported Rosie missing? Why were they mad at the dad?

It's Sonoma, wine country. We didn't really see much about their relationship or why they were moving to California just now. She and he have secrets too, apparently!

The Dad's credit card was the other thing found at the field, along with the pink sweater. That's why the cops were looking to talk to the Dad--they didn't even have a body at that point, nor did they know that there was a daughter in the family, hence the reaction when she realized it was a girl's bike. The parents didn't even know/realize that Rosie was missing yet. :(

I think this is going to be a really good show, or at least it has the opportunity to be that. It's great too seeing Mirielle Enos, whose work I'm familiar with from Big Love. I just wish it wasn't going to be so dark! Heh, it will be quite dark in places, I suspect. I have no idea who the murderer is, but I do NOT like that male aide to the candidate. I'm thinking either he or the lady either one has been providing the leaks from the campaign. The councilman has some big secret too, Og only knows what!

I haven't had a chance to see the Borgias series on SHO yet - that looks to be good as well. I guess I'll be watching one of these on demand.

[The Second Stone]

I thought it was one of the best things I've seen on television. I don't care for the moving/marriage subplot because it doesn't seem to go anywhere, but the rest is about people who are like people.

[AuntiePam]

It's great too seeing Mirielle Enos, whose work I'm familiar with from Big Love.

So that's where I've seen her! I hope she has better luck with her pony tail than she had with the braid.

Thanks for explaining the part I missed. Wow. Clever writers. I like how they did that.

[Shark Sandwich]

I liked it too, but I'm not really sure how I feel about the characters yet. I'm still trying to find the hook that's going to keep the female detective on the case and not flying off to California. If she's going to stay simply because she started the case well, I'm not a police detective so I'm not sure how realistic that is. I thought they'd reveal that she had a daughter that was killed in the same fashion, or some other formulaic thing that you see in shows/movies of this type. Guess that's not a bad thing.

Also, as a parent of two young daughters, the first two episodes were heart wrenching to watch.

[John Mace]

I liked it. Seems like they did an excellent job of setting things up-- defining who the characters are, what their issues are, and how this might possibly play out as it goes forward. Isn't the main character one of the Juniper Creek twins that married Joey in Big Love? And of course we all recognize Ensign Ro.

[Eyebrows 0f Doom]

well, ok 'likeable' in the sense that of the entire bunch, he's less unlikeable than most of the others - he's clean cut, energetic and appears 'innocent' - all political folks try to do what he's doing, so he was set up to make the candidate seem 'more honorable' at that point of the episode - of course, by the time its over it'll be the detective's boss - or fiance - since niether got much screen time and were also presented as reasonably nice folks.

No way, at this point he's coming across to me as a top suspect (with his whole "It'll be even better for you if the girl is dead!" thing), however I hope that they don't make it that obvious. Or maybe I am just too familiar with all the usual Law & Order tropes - it's never the first suspect or the most obvious one right off the bat (angry ex-boyfriend, political candidate), it's always someone peripheral but who comes into play later on.

Actually, the first thing I thought was that it was dad's racist co-worker.

[AuntiePam]

Isn't the main character one of the Juniper Creek twins that married Joey in Big Love? And of course we all recognize Ensign Ro.

Yep, she's the one who died when her braid got stuck in the door of the pickup.

Who's Ensign Ro?

Did you guys recognize Brent Sexton from Deadwood. He played Harry Manning, the guy who wanted to start a volunteer fire department.

[ShelliBean]

Ensign Ro is the mom - she was on Star Trek a hundred years ago.

My first thought was that is was the current mayor trying to undermine the new candidate's campaign.

[Skara_Brae]

The thing that's worrying me is, the detective's wedding is delayed, and though the fiance sounded like an understanding guy, I'm afraid he's going to go off on her and say "get your ass home right now or we're through".

Funny, when I saw Callum Keith Rennie's (the fiancee's) name in the credits, my first thought was "I bet he's the killer." He's played a bad guy in about everything I've seen him in. He seems like a nice guy in this, but it will probably turn out he's abusing the son, or something.

Are they going to be introducing new characters? Or is this it for the suspects?

[Lakai]

The show is walking well traveled ground, but it's doing it well enough for me to continue watching.

I love how the show treated the discovery of the body. That scene is very special to a crime show, and has been done a million times before. There is just no way a murder mystery can skip over the discovery of the murder.

What was different here was that the first episode ended with the discovery of the body, where as with all other shows the body is discovered at the beginning. They even faked us out a couple of times making us think the body would be discovered at the start of the show.

They took their time to set up that scene and it really delivered. From the shot of the trunk opening up to the father breaking down in primal screams. It was the same scene from a million other cop shows, but with far superior acting, set up, and directing. I hope they can manage to do the same thing with other glossed over scenes from cop shows.

I also like what the show is doing with Linden's sidekick. At first it looked like they were working the corrupt and incompetent cop angle, but then they switched gears once he found the cage. The guy just doesn't have the social grace that Linden does, possibly because he grew up around gangsters and drug dealers. But that doesn't mean he's a bad cop, he just has a different skill set, which as we saw can be very effective.

[AuntiePam]

Are they going to be introducing new characters? Or is this it for the suspects?

Someone posted summaries of the first six episodes at TWOP. If they're accurate (I'll box this), new suspects will be introduced..

I'm trying to figure out how the killer could be unconnected to the campaign. Sure, the car was reported stolen, but we have to assume it was a false report. Otherwise all this time with the campaign is wasted.

[drastic_quench]

It seems like it's going to be a fairly mediocre show. It's one step above other cop procedurals, but it's operating in a genre that's really become threadbare and tedious, and I think you can see that in a lot of the characters here, many of whom are arch-types straight out of How to Write a Cop Show 101. The only character worth watching is Holder, played brilliantly by Joel Kinnaman. He really steals every scene he's in. There's nothing original or likeable about any of the other supporting characters, with the possible exception of Rosie's mother, and maybe her father, who's been struck from the same lower middle class, blue collar proud hard-working loveable father mold they use for every other episodic cop procedural where they need a caring parent. And Linden is basically every female copy in every television show ever made, with the added bonus of being the Competent Detective Working One Last Case Before She Leaves. Hopefully they'll start to subvert some of the expectations and standards of the genre, otherwise I can't see it accomplishing a whole lot, in terms of being a good and worthwhile show.

This is my take on it as well. Pass, but I'll read the spoilers in six months or whenever.

[Tangent]

Ensign Ro is the mom - she was on Star Trek a hundred years ago.

She got promoted to Admiral (Cain) for Battlestar Galactica.

[Argent Towers]

There are enough motherfucking police procedural shows. I'm sick to death of them. When will they ever think of anything original?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I tried watching it last night. Got through about a half hour of it. The acting is really bad, especially that actress playing the lead. Also that politician guy.

To me it just came off like another Law and Order type cliched procedural. I could also do without the relationship crap.

[drastic_quench]

It made me realize how much I miss FX's innovative PI show Terriers.

[boytyperanma]

Saw this show pop up and knew nothing about it, googled and found it has connections to Cold Case, one of my favorite shows. Watched the first episodes and it's got my interest but I'm not yet in love. I'll see how it goes.

I don't care for the main character, she's no Lilly Rush. The partner and the husband aren't catching my interest either.

This isn't the first show to go with a long running investigation angle, and my experience has been making the viewers wait till the end of a season for the conclusion kills interest.

The procedural template calls for a crime being solved nearly every episode making each episode stand on its own. This goes against that template and demands the viewers recall and keep track of what went on in the earlier episodes. I think that's just putting to much work in the hands of the regular viewers and makes it impossible for the occasional viewer.

[Corliss]

I loved the show! I thought the part about Holder giving the girls pot was actually left open to interpretation. Holder was already smoking when the girls approached him and said "OMG, are you smoking pot?" I don't why the girls would ask him that particular question unless Holder was indeed smoking pot. I thought Holder behaved rather skeevy around young girls more than once throughout those two episodes. I think future episodes will reveal just what kind of person he really is, and how low he will go to acquire information. It should be interesting!

[Shark Sandwich]

I loved the show! I thought the part about Holder giving the girls pot was actually left open to interpretation. Holder was already smoking when the girls approached him and said "OMG, are you smoking pot?" I don't why the girls would ask him that particular question unless Holder was indeed smoking pot. I thought Holder behaved rather skeevy around young girls more than once throughout those two episodes. I think future episodes will reveal just what kind of person he really is, and how low he will go to acquire information. It should be interesting!

I'm probably wrong here, but I got the impressoin that he wasn't really smoking pot, and was hoping the two girls wouldn't be able to tell the difference. He saw the brown-haired girl smile at him in the hall, and figured that was his mark, and being "cool" would be the way to earn their trust. To me, it was reinforced by the same girl taking a hit, and then about 30 seconds later saying, "Man, I am SO stoned right now."

I know, I know. The chances of a couple of high school kids not knowing what pot smells like is a bit of a stretch.

[Corliss]

I'm probably wrong here, but I got the impressoin that he wasn't really smoking pot, and was hoping the two girls wouldn't be able to tell the difference. He saw the brown-haired girl smile at him in the hall, and figured that was his mark, and being "cool" would be the way to earn their trust. To me, it was reinforced by the same girl taking a hit, and then about 30 seconds later saying, "Man, I am SO stoned right now."

I know, I know. The chances of a couple of high school kids not knowing what pot smells like is a bit of a stretch.

Well then I'd say that Holder is either more intuitive than I thought or just plain lucky to be able to anticipate that much in advance just how these girls would respond to him. But this is also why I said that it seemed pretty open for interpretation. They left it to the audience to draw their own conclusions one way or the other, or at least that's how it seemed to me. But this was just part 1, wasn't it? It'll be interesting to see what Holder does in future episodes. I think we'll truly see what he's all about as the show progresses. By the way, I agree, high school kids not knowing what pot smells like IS a bit of a stretch.

[obfusciatrist]

Yeah, I swung back and forth on that one.

Part of me thought he just saw girls eager to seem more worldly than they were and went with it when they reacted to his hand rolled cigarette (which just looks cooler) as marijuana.

The other part of me figured that he came from working undercover so certainly isn't uncomfortable with the idea of using minor illegal behavior to get people to trust him. But this does suggest that either a) he's always carrying his pot around on his person, which seems like a bad idea for any cop, or b) he scored some there on campus, which also seems like a really bad idea.

[Dewey Finn]

I'm assuming that it was real marijuana, although he was smoking it merely to get the kids to open up, and it worked well. (One can assume that a former narcotics officer knows how to get pot quickly and quietly.)

[Eyebrows 0f Doom]

I don't think it was actually marijuana, and the girls clearly had no idea what they were smoking. The one girl saying "I am so stoned" immediately after taking one small hit made it obvious to me that the girls were not familiar with marijuana and were just pretending to so they would seem cool for the cop.

[Corliss]

Could it also be possible that Holder was indeed just standing around and actually getting high for a moment of personal leisure? He may have not been doing it with the intention of letting the girls "take a hit." Remember, it was the girls who approached HIM and they asked "are you smoking pot?" That itself would seem to show that the girls knew what Holder was smoking, perhaps because of the distinctive odor. Again, he may have decided as a quick, unplanned, last minute move, to use these girls for information. One of the girl's reactions saying that "she's so stoned" could be that she's inexperienced in smoking pot but that doesn't mean they don't know what it is, how it smells, etc. And I'm sorry, but Holder comes across as a total rogue. The first two hours of the show revealed his roguishness quite effectively. Getting these girls high does not seem beneath him at all.

[Sage Rat]

I haven't seen the Danish one. (But then, I'm not Danish, so don't shoot me.)

However, what I'd really like to see in this is a murder mystery where the identification of the murderer isn't really the point, but just a McGuffin.

Twin Peaks?

[guizot]

Twin Peaks?Before my time.

[Tarwater]

Could it also be possible that Holder was indeed just standing around and actually getting high for a moment of personal leisure? He may have not been doing it with the intention of letting the girls "take a hit." Remember, it was the girls who approached HIM and they asked "are you smoking pot?" That itself would seem to show that the girls knew what Holder was smoking, perhaps because of the distinctive odor. Again, he may have decided as a quick, unplanned, last minute move, to use these girls for information. One of the girl's reactions saying that "she's so stoned" could be that she's inexperienced in smoking pot but that doesn't mean they don't know what it is, how it smells, etc. And I'm sorry, but Holder comes across as a total rogue. The first two hours of the show revealed his roguishness quite effectively. Getting these girls high does not seem beneath him at all.

Given his conversation with Linden preceding the incident, his leading of the conversation with the two girls, and his sudden and immediate disinterest in them once they told him where the local kids hung out to get high, I find it really difficult to believe that his primary motive for being there was anything else than juicing a couple of young, gullible teenagers for information. He put himself directly in the path of the two girls -- it seemed to me like they had to walk by him to get where they were going, which I presumed was a storage locker or whatever. I mean, he was in narcotics before this, wasn't he? Manipulating the two girls for information by leveraging his rebellious status as a drug-user is exactly the kind of thing he'd have done a hundred times before during his tenure in a narcotics unit.

[Tangent]

This isn't the first show to go with a long running investigation angle, and my experience has been making the viewers wait till the end of a season for the conclusion kills interest.

Like AMC's own Rubicon. Which I actually liked, but man was it slow-paced.

[Lakai]

This isn't the first show to go with a long running investigation angle, and my experience has been making the viewers wait till the end of a season for the conclusion kills interest.

The procedural template calls for a crime being solved nearly every episode making each episode stand on its own. This goes against that template and demands the viewers recall and keep track of what went on in the earlier episodes. I think that's just putting to much work in the hands of the regular viewers and makes it impossible for the occasional viewer.

This show isn't for viewers who can't remember a plot that goes on for more than two episodes. People who watch these types of shows don't do it for the mystery. They do it because they like the characters and want to see what happens to them.

It's no coincidence that AMC keeps developing shows that don't have plots contained in one episode. They've had success with Mad Men and The Walking Dead, which both put up good cable ratings and both aren't accessible to casual viewers.

[Chefguy]

I must be watching a different show than some of you. I thought it was very well acted and extremely well edited. I'm not sure exactly what you guys think would be a new twist on a cop show; maybe it just doesn't have enough car crashes and gratuitous violence to hold your attention.

[Erdosain]

I must be watching a different show than some of you. I thought it was very well acted and extremely well edited. I'm not sure exactly what you guys think would be a new twist on a cop show; maybe it just doesn't have enough car crashes and gratuitous violence to hold your attention.

I agree completely. I thought it was a little slow-paced, but very good and miles better than any other police show currently on TV. I wish they'd show two episodes a week like they did last week: that would help keep the pace up without sacrificing the careful and methodical way they're building this.

I can't think of any police procedural show on TV right now that doesn't have a Mystery of the Week. That's what they have to do to keep it going 22 episodes a year. Thank god cable is here to give us shorter, tighter story lines.

[Tarwater]

I must be watching a different show than some of you. I thought it was very well acted and extremely well edited. I'm not sure exactly what you guys think would be a new twist on a cop show; maybe it just doesn't have enough car crashes and gratuitous violence to hold your attention.

No, I just expected something good.

[Erdosain]

No, I just expected something good.

Can you give us an example of a "good" cop show or are you just going to keep harping on the fact that it's bad and that the female detective appears to be female? That's the only salient criticism I could glean from your post--all the characters are cliche except Holder, Rosie's mom, and Rosie's dad, which leaves just the female detective. Who you allege is a copy of every female detective ever. However, the female detective struggling to balance kids and work may be a cliche in Scandinavian crime fiction, but it certainly isn't a cliche in US cop dramas. Does any female detective on U.S. TV right now even have a kid? No.

We disagree as to the merits of the show, but unless you just want to keep saying "It's bad!" I don't know if we have a lot more to discuss.

[Tarwater]

Can you give us an example of a "good" cop show

The Wire, of course. Homicide: Life on the Street. NYPD Blue. Those are the top three. I could give you a couple more examples, but the quality drops off precipitously after these three.

or are you just going to keep harping on the fact that it's bad and that the female detective appears to be female?

I never said I had a problem with the lead detective being female. This strawman is almost as laughable as Chefguy's "gratuitous violence and car crashes" remark.

That's the only salient criticism I could glean from your post--all the characters are cliche except Holder, Rosie's mom, and Rosie's dad, which leaves just the female detective.


Look, it's not my problem that you're projecting something into my posts that isn't there. Nor is it my problem when Chefguy does it. But I still reserve the right to roll my eyes when you do. First of all, I said with the possibility of Rosie's mother and father. I'm giving the show a little credit here. The writers haven't pigeon-holed them into the same narrow space like they've done with Linden, making her a ruggedly handsome person with an almost preternatural understanding of crime. She's strong. She's competent. She's working one last case! From what I can tell, she's been hobbled together from the average sum of every detective in every bad cop show ever made, been given a change of scenery and a kid, and now the writers are expecting us to believe that she's somehow fresh and unique because of it. She's not. I've given you a list of my favorite cop shows. Each one of them has at least one, if not two or three, female detectives who are a hundred times more compelling, more multi-faceted than Linden appears in the first episode. Maybe this will change. It could.

Who you allege is a copy of every female detective ever. However, the female detective struggling to balance kids and work may be a cliche in Scandinavian crime fiction, but it certainly isn't a cliche in US cop dramas. Does any female detective on U.S. TV right now even have a kid? No.

Yeah, and none of them hail from Seattle, either. Are you expecting me to play Spot the Difference with Linden and other female detectives? Does the fact that she has a kid make for good storytelling? No. It hasn't so far, at least. The show hasn't said anything insightful about Linden as a working parent, nothing human or relevant, nothing engaging. I haven't seen the original version, so I can't speak with any real authority as to whether or not any of that's going to change, but from what I've seen, I kind of doubt it. I've been surrounded by hard-working mothers for my entire life. If the show can give me one insight into their experience that's deeper and more involved than, "Oh, isn't it so hard on the children and the mother!," then I'll change my attitude about Linden. But if they're just going to use her child as a plot device or an aid for character development, as I suspect they're going to, than it's meaningless, at least to me, when you say, "Look, she has a kid! That makes her a totally different character!"

We disagree as to the merits of the show, but unless you just want to keep saying "It's bad!" I don't know if we have a lot more to discuss.

There you go. Does that clarify things for you?

[Erdosain]

There you go. Does that clarify things for you?

Well, it was miles better than your previous "Nyah, nyah, nyah, the show sucks." So yes, it did clarify things for me and I appreciate your response.

Look, I liked the show. We've only seen two episodes. It could be brilliant or it could veer off into cliche or fantasy. Who knows. I think what we've seen so far is promising. Is it the best show on television? Is it The Wire? Of course not. But just because a movie's not Citizen Kane doesn't mean it's crap, either.

Rich kid blasting people on a videogame while a prostitute sleeps in his bed with a daddy who yells at the police? Clichetown. So far. I think I can wait a couple episodes to see where they go with this, though.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree about Detective Linden. You reiterate that she's a cliche and just like every other female detective--and your evidence is that she's strong and competent. Umm, okay. As far as I can tell, she's nothing like The Closer, Benson from L&O, or Beckett from Castle, just to name the most popular female detectives on TV right now. Her kid DOES affect the storytelling because it's always impinging on the investigation, pulling her in five different directions. You may think that it's just window dressing, but I think it could be interesting.

We'll also have to agree to disagree on the "ruggedly handsome" part. I think she looks kind of like an alien. Or one of those Eloi from the Time Machine. Holder is definitely a Morlock or maybe if a Morlock and DJ Qualls had a baby.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I gave the show another chance last night, and liked it more the second time, but I have to agree that the lead character is a cliched female cop. She's got that exact same, humorless, "jaded," stoic thing going on to show how tough she is.

The kid and the dipshit fiance add basically nothing to the show and should have been cut out of the script unless one of them is the killer (which I don't think they are, because I think I've already figured it out).

[Chefguy]

I gave the show another chance last night, and liked it more the second time, but I have to agree that the lead character is a cliched female cop. She's got that exact same, humorless, "jaded," stoic thing going on to show how tough she is.

The kid and the dipshit fiance add basically nothing to the show and should have been cut out of the script unless one of them is the killer (which I don't think they are, because I think I've already figured it out).

Have you known many cops? I used to work as a volunteer cop for a couple of years and can tell you that the ones who have to deal with the seamier side of things are very jaded and humorless on the job. Women in that role can't show any weakness, as it's pretty much still a macho world they're working in. Would you prefer that she be some sort of brainless bimbo? 'cause that would be completely unrealistic.

[Chefguy]

The Wire, of course. Homicide: Life on the Street. NYPD Blue. Those are the top three. I could give you a couple more examples, but the quality drops off precipitously after these three.



I never said I had a problem with the lead detective being female. This strawman is almost as laughable as Chefguy's "gratuitous violence and car crashes" remark.



Look, it's not my problem that you're projecting something into my posts that isn't there. Nor is it my problem when Chefguy does it. But I still reserve the right to roll my eyes when you do. First of all, I said with the possibility of Rosie's mother and father. I'm giving the show a little credit here. The writers haven't pigeon-holed them into the same narrow space like they've done with Linden, making her a ruggedly handsome person with an almost preternatural understanding of crime. She's strong. She's competent. She's working one last case! From what I can tell, she's been hobbled together from the average sum of every detective in every bad cop show ever made, been given a change of scenery and a kid, and now the writers are expecting us to believe that she's somehow fresh and unique because of it. She's not. I've given you a list of my favorite cop shows. Each one of them has at least one, if not two or three, female detectives who are a hundred times more compelling, more multi-faceted than Linden appears in the first episode. Maybe this will change. It could.



Yeah, and none of them hail from Seattle, either. Are you expecting me to play Spot the Difference with Linden and other female detectives? Does the fact that she has a kid make for good storytelling? No. It hasn't so far, at least. The show hasn't said anything insightful about Linden as a working parent, nothing human or relevant, nothing engaging. I haven't seen the original version, so I can't speak with any real authority as to whether or not any of that's going to change, but from what I've seen, I kind of doubt it. I've been surrounded by hard-working mothers for my entire life. If the show can give me one insight into their experience that's deeper and more involved than, "Oh, isn't it so hard on the children and the mother!," then I'll change my attitude about Linden. But if they're just going to use her child as a plot device or an aid for character development, as I suspect they're going to, than it's meaningless, at least to me, when you say, "Look, she has a kid! That makes her a totally different character!"



There you go. Does that clarify things for you?

So I'm assuming (and hoping) that you won't be watching any future episodes so we won't have to listen to a rerun of all this? Thanks in advance.

[Tarwater]

So I'm assuming (and hoping) that you won't be watching any future episodes so we won't have to listen to a rerun of all this? Thanks in advance.

No, I'm going to continue watching it, hoping in vain that subsequent episodes have more car crashes and gratuitous violence.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

No comments yet since the third episode?

So it was fake pot. That's simultaneously a relief and a disppointment. It takes something away from what initially appeared to be an intriguing moral ambiguity with that character. It kind of felt like the show was wimping out with that reveal.

I'm still watchimng the show, so I guess I'm still somewhat interested. I think the red herrings are too obviously red herrings, though. Anyone shown as an obvious suspect is obviously not the killer. I seem to remember an Agatha Christie maxim that a mystery writer should always give the audience one obvious red herring, one person for them to secretly suspect and one person who is the real killer. It's all about misdirection. The killer will be someone who is present all along, but who never seems like a suspect. I think a drawback of this series is that it will spend most of its time on the herrings before springing the surprise killer in the finale.

If there's anything original about it, it's in the amount of time it spends on the family of the victim in the aftermath. That's an aspect that's usually given short shrift in procedurals.

[Chefguy]

No comments yet since the third episode?

So it was fake pot. That's simultaneously a relief and a disppointment. It takes something away from what initially appeared to be an intriguing moral ambiguity with that character. It kind of felt like the show was wimping out with that reveal.

I'm still watchimng the show, so I guess I'm still somewhat interested. I think the red herrings are too obviously red herrings, though. Anyone shown as an obvious suspect is obviously not the killer. I seem to remember an Agatha Christie maxim that a mystery writer should always give the audience one obvious red herring, one person for them to secretly suspect and one person who is the real killer. It's all about misdirection. The killer will be someone who is present all along, but who never seems like a suspect. I think a drawback of this series is that it will spend most of its time on the herrings before springing the surprise killer in the finale.

If there's anything original about it, it's in the amount of time it spends on the family of the victim in the aftermath. That's an aspect that's usually given short shrift in procedurals.

Original or not (and not much is these days), I like the pace of the story and the mood. The female cop takes some getting used to, as she spends a lot of time staring into space, but the hour passes very quickly, which means it holds my attention. That apparently would place me into the unimaginative idiot classification according to some.

[AuntiePam]

Original or not (and not much is these days), I like the pace of the story and the mood. The female cop takes some getting used to, as she spends a lot of time staring into space, but the hour passes very quickly, which means it holds my attention. That apparently would place me into the unimaginative idiot classification according to some.

I've read a few Scandinavian novels featuring detectives, and that seems to be a common trait with Nordic cops -- moody and brooding and not very talkative. Hell, most of them are clinically depressed.

Haven't caught all of this week's episode yet.

I didn't know there was such a thing as fake marijuana. What would be the point?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

He said it was used in undercover narcotics (where the character was before being moved to homicide).

[Chefguy]

I've read a few Scandinavian novels featuring detectives, and that seems to be a common trait with Nordic cops -- moody and brooding and not very talkative. Hell, most of them are clinically depressed.

Haven't caught all of this week's episode yet.

I didn't know there was such a thing as fake marijuana. What would be the point?

It's used in training for noobs who may not have smelled the odor before, and for undercover narcs (as mentioned). When I went through training as a volunteer, they actually lit up a bowl of the real stuff and passed it around. Some of the veteran cops in the room tended to hold onto it for longer than necessary. ;)

[Squooshed]

For what it's worth, my wife and I both really like the series so far. Part of that may be our predisposition to like an AMC series after all the great series they've put together recently. But, the characters feel much more real and human to me than in many police procedurals. It's not The Wire, but that's too lofty a standard to hold any show to. That's my favorite TV series ever.

I also appreciate the focus on the family. As the parent of one daughter and two sons, it's fairly grueling and wrenching to watch some of those scenes. But the two parents seem to be doing a fine job acting and I agree with a previous posted that the four-part discovery of the body was really, really well done.

[lindsaybluth]

I think I'm going to give this show a hesitant shot. Lots of people with good taste seem to like it. I have yet to see the Wire though, should I wait to watch the Wire before watching this?

[AuntiePam]

I think I'm going to give this show a hesitant shot. Lots of people with good taste seem to like it. I have yet to see the Wire though, should I wait to watch the Wire before watching this?

I think you should wait. The Wire needs full attention. Something else that helps with The Wire is rewatching, without waiting -- maybe watch three episodes and then watch again. It's made me appreciate the show even more, seeing how some little thing that happened early in an episode affected events at the end.

[lindsaybluth]

All righty then, I shall wait till I finish the Wire :). But then I'll definitely watch it.

AMC is really something else these days. I really hope it's not a short lived thing, since really quality shows often tend to be more expensive. Apparently they lose quite a bit of money on Mad Men alone.

[NiceGuyJack]

Having seen the original Danish version, the butler did it.

Kidding, but having seen the Danish version, there are times when it's exactly like it and there are times when it's completely different. The "fake" weed for example. That's not how Holden (who in the Danish version is named Meyer) finds out in the Danish version.
So far, I'd say the Danish version is better. Will keep monitoring if it gets better. I heard rumors that the killer won't be the same.

[AuntiePam]

All righty then, I shall wait till I finish the Wire :). But then I'll definitely watch it.

Or watch The Killing first, so you can participate here when it's fresh, and watch The Wire later. And then start a Wire thread so all the fans can come back and relive it. :)

NiceGuyJack, I went looking for the Danish DVD -- the price was 38.99 (in pounds or Euro or whatever the money is called now) which translates to what, almost $60 US?

How did Meyer find out in the Danish version?

Something that I'm not getting, maybe because I still haven't seen 100% of the first two episodes and none of the third -- are there two victims? Rosie died by drowning, so where did all the blood at the school come from?

[Dewey Finn]

Perhaps she was injured, but alive when she was put in the trunk? (FYI, I don't think this was explained in the third episode.)

[Eyebrows 0f Doom]

Something that I'm not getting, maybe because I still haven't seen 100% of the first two episodes and none of the third -- are there two victims? Rosie died by drowning, so where did all the blood at the school come from?

I was confused by that too. I think when they found the body they said she had been punched in the face? Is that right? And for some reason they were looking for the murder scene elsewhere.

I'm not sure how they can base a whole season around solving one murder, unless every week is just another red herring. Since it's only the 2nd episode, I'm guessing Rosie wasn't raped, that was something she planned with the two boys (for some reason, maybe to send the video to the person who did kill her? Whom I'm guessing works at the campaign), and neither of them are actually connected to her death.

I'm getting a bit annoyed with the female detective's facial expressions. She looks like at any moment she may burst into tears and/or then stares off into space. I will still keep watching though.

[Chefguy]

I guess I'm going to have to watch The Wire someday. I tried watching an episode some years ago and couldn't get into it, but that can happen when you freefall into a complicated series.

[NiceGuyJack]

NiceGuyJack, I went looking for the Danish DVD -- the price was 38.99 (in pounds or Euro or whatever the money is called now) which translates to what, almost $60 US?

How did Meyer find out in the Danish version?

In the Danish version Meyer (Holden) finds out from a janitor but Lund (Linden) is finding out at the same time from one of the rich boys. They are on the phone together when the discovery is made and Meyer (Holden) tells Lund (Linden) she must get over there right away.

Something that I'm not getting, maybe because I still haven't seen 100% of the first two episodes and none of the third -- are there two victims? Rosie died by drowning, so where did all the blood at the school come from?
Can't tell you this yet without spoiling it for you.
In the Danish version, they had established that she had been repeatedly raped before she was killed, but that does not appear to be the case in the Us version.

[AuntiePam]

nm, sorry

[NiceGuyJack]

nm, sorry

What does nm mean?
Did I say something I shouldn't have?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

nm = "never mind."

[lindsaybluth]

Or watch The Killing first, so you can participate here when it's fresh, and watch The Wire later.

That was EXACTLY my thought about 5 minutes after my post. Then I thought "no no, listen to the good people who have given you so much good advice about TV over the years."

I'll catch up on the Killing and participate in the next thread then when I'm all caught up. :)

And then start a Wire thread so all the fans can come back and relive it. :)

That can be arranged!

[drastic_quench]

Original or not (and not much is these days), I like the pace of the story and the mood. The female cop takes some getting used to, as she spends a lot of time staring into space, but the hour passes very quickly, which means it holds my attention. That apparently would place me into the unimaginative idiot classification according to some.

Once all the episodes have aired, I thought I could compile a youtube video of all of her reaction shots back-to-back in chronological order without recycling a single one. At this rate, it feels like my video would be 15 minutes long.

[Chefguy]

Once all the episodes have aired, I thought I could compile a youtube video of all of her reaction shots back-to-back in chronological order without recycling a single one. At this rate, it feels like my video would be 15 minutes long.

It's nowhere near as bad as the long intervals of silent staring in Rubicon, though. They almost resembled fugue states. I have an ongoing thread that I hope to post to once a year in memory of that show.

[guizot]

It's nowhere near as bad as the long intervals of silent staring in Rubicon, though...In another way it reminds me of Rubicon in that just about all the lead characters are just not believable for the occupations they're supposed to have. In Rubicon it's like a high school year-book class is running an intelligence agency. In The Killing it's like a massage therapist and pizza delivery boy suddenly were assigned to investigate a murder.

[Chefguy]

In another way it reminds me of Rubicon in that just about all the lead characters are just not believable for the occupations they're supposed to have. In Rubicon it's like a high school year-book class is running an intelligence agency. In The Killing it's like a massage therapist and pizza delivery boy suddenly were assigned to investigate a murder.

The Rubicon folks seemed like typical data analysts, aka nerds. You wouldn't hire them for field work, but as computer geeks and analysts, they were perfect. I can absolutely see the male character in The Killing as an undercover narc. He's got that whole slacker attitude working for him.

[Zeldar]

I'm getting the Twin Peaks vibe coupled with a The Wire wannabe mood, but with the pacing just slightly above Rubicon and with the characters all fully capabale of being guilty of any and all crimes thus far committed and likely to be in the days to come.

The Linden character is so much like a friend of mine from years ago, when she looked about 10 years younger than her real age, that I can't separate the two.

I like the fact that AMC is pushing it to rival their hits. They and FX are leading the pack this season, and until the other AMC shows return I'm all into this one. Justified and The Good Wife are the only competition at the moment.

All I can say about Seattle is that I'm in no real hurry to travel there!

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Regarding Linden's habit of pausing/staring: I think it works. It fits into the deliberate pacing of the show - a pace I am enjoying - and it underscores the fact that she is a smart woman who is carefully considering the evidence (or her next move). When she pauses to reflect, she is thinking, and it prompts me to consider what she is thinking about.

Here is one example: Just before the body was discovered, when everyone was basically giving up on the search, Linden is shown gazing into the distance. Then it is shown that she is staring at some kids on bikes with fishing poles. An astute viewer (not me :)) had a moment, during her pause, to reach the same conclusion she reached a few seconds later: that there was another lake to search.

I also appreciate the fact that she is rather plain looking; I am so sick of supermodel detectives/medical examiners/doctors/attorneys.

mmm

[drastic_quench]

In another way it reminds me of Rubicon in that just about all the lead characters are just not believable for the occupations they're supposed to have. In Rubicon it's like a high school year-book class is running an intelligence agency. In The Killing it's like a massage therapist and pizza delivery boy suddenly were assigned to investigate a murder.

That's hilarious, and it sounds like a bizzare yet fantastic premise to run with. Quick, get me Zooey Deschanel and James Franco!

[guizot]

The Rubicon folks seemed like typical data analysts, aka nerds. You wouldn't hire them for field work, but as computer geeks and analysts, they were perfect. I can absolutely see the male character in The Killing as an undercover narc. He's got that whole slacker attitude working for him.That's what I mean: You can tell that it's exactly how they think the viewing public pictures these occupations. It's too contrived, and becomes annoying, especially when the Rubicon people over-explicate.

[Lakai]

That's what I mean: You can tell that it's exactly how they think the viewing public pictures these occupations. It's too contrived, and becomes annoying, especially when the Rubicon people over-explicate.

TV shows always run into this problem when they create competent characters. In the real world you have gross incompetence and bureaucracy, which breed conformity and keep everyone from doing their best work.

Real white collar professionals are too uptight for the TV world. You can't have a TV show where the main characters try to avoid stepping on any toes. TV needs conflict, which real professionals don't like. Therefore, you're not going to see real homicide detectives or analysts on TV anytime soon.

Unless you're watching "The Wire," where exploring incompetence and bureaucracy was the whole point.

[guizot]

TV shows always run into this problem when they create competent characters. In the real world you have gross incompetence and bureaucracy, which breed conformity and keep everyone from doing their best work.Also, in the real world, competent people don't craft every utterance to display in fine detail how competent they are. That just isn't how people work.

[Tangent]

...it's like a massage therapist and pizza delivery boy suddenly were assigned to investigate a murder.

I think I saw a porn movie with that plot.

[ShelliBean]

I finally watched the encore presentation of the third episode. I still love this show. I did miss the first 15 minutes but assume I'm not missing too much.

I am pretty sure the campaign assistant girl is sleazy.

Lt. Ro is really pretty good at being a wounded mother.

"Sorry Dad. I forgot." was heartbreaking.

For some reason, I like the teacher - the one that found the phone and turned it in. I really hope he doesn't turn out to be a sleaze bag too.

[AuntiePam]

I'm not sure how they can base a whole season around solving one murder, unless every week is just another red herring. Since it's only the 2nd episode, I'm guessing Rosie wasn't raped, that was something she planned with the two boys (for some reason, maybe to send the video to the person who did kill her? Whom I'm guessing works at the campaign), and neither of them are actually connected to her death.


Are we even sure that it was Rosie in the video? Maybe I need a better TV, but all I saw was shiny blond hair, probably a wig. It looked like consensual (albeit rough) sex, and the girl could have been anybody.

I'm disappointed with the detectives if they think they were watching a rape. If it was rape, the boys would have kept their faces hidden. The kid didn't seem at all upset when the teacher took his phone. He didn't even bother to get it back at the end of class. Now that was puzzling. Did he want the teacher to see the video?

[Snooooopy]

Are we even sure that it was Rosie in the video? Maybe I need a better TV, but all I saw was shiny blond hair, probably a wig. It looked like consensual (albeit rough) sex, and the girl could have been anybody.

I'm disappointed with the detectives if they think they were watching a rape. If it was rape, the boys would have kept their faces hidden. The kid didn't seem at all upset when the teacher took his phone. He didn't even bother to get it back at the end of class. Now that was puzzling. Did he want the teacher to see the video?

It didn't strike me as a rape -- or even intercourse -- because it appeared that there were too many clothes still on in their groinal areas. It seemed more like some kind of particularly vicious dry humping session.

[AuntiePam]

It didn't strike me as a rape -- or even intercourse -- because it appeared that there were too many clothes still on in their groinal areas. It seemed more like some kind of particularly vicious dry humping session.

I noticed that too, but figured the lack of bare skin was because AMC isn't a premium channel. I don't remember much bare skin on Breaking Bad or Mad Men either.

[davidm]

I just watched the first three episodes on On Demand. It's caught my interest and I'm going to keep watching but I have to concur with the people who brought up Twin Peaks.

The atmosphere, the music, the plot, it all points to it being strongly influenced by Twin Peaks.

In case you don't remember the original scene, check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUJSMAWFXkY
It's the clip where Sarah Palmer hears everything over the phone as the Sheriff's arrival makes it obvious to Leland what has happened. That is NOT a coincidence.

[davidm]

I noticed that too, but figured the lack of bare skin was because AMC isn't a premium channel. I don't remember much bare skin on Breaking Bad or Mad Men either.You don't remember Walter White in his underwear? :D

[Corliss]

No comments yet since the third episode?

So it was fake pot. That's simultaneously a relief and a disppointment. It takes something away from what initially appeared to be an intriguing moral ambiguity with that character. It kind of felt like the show was wimping out with that reveal.

I'm still watchimng the show, so I guess I'm still somewhat interested. I think the red herrings are too obviously red herrings, though. Anyone shown as an obvious suspect is obviously not the killer. I seem to remember an Agatha Christie maxim that a mystery writer should always give the audience one obvious red herring, one person for them to secretly suspect and one person who is the real killer. It's all about misdirection. The killer will be someone who is present all along, but who never seems like a suspect. I think a drawback of this series is that it will spend most of its time on the herrings before springing the surprise killer in the finale.

If there's anything original about it, it's in the amount of time it spends on the family of the victim in the aftermath. That's an aspect that's usually given short shrift in procedurals.

I still don't quite accept what Holder says at face value about the pot. It could be that he wasn't being truthful about it to Linden. It's interesting in this same episode that we catch Holder acting mysterious and deceitful yet again! Who the hell was he talking to on the phone that he didn't want Linden to know about? She almost caught him red-handed!

[Chefguy]

I noticed that too, but figured the lack of bare skin was because AMC isn't a premium channel. I don't remember much bare skin on Breaking Bad or Mad Men either.

Not in the network version, but the pilot episode of Breaking Bad available on disk has bare boobs that were blurred for the network premiere.

This week's episode tried to imply that

the teacher is the murderer. It's an obvious red herring, IMO.

[Dewey Finn]

I was wondering about that big revelation. The letters that the detective found in the globe in the victim's room were signed Bennett. Is that the teacher's name? I didn't recognize it (but then I don't recognize the names of most of the characters yet. From what I read of the letter she was holding, it seemed more to be encouraging Rosie than to be romantic.

[davidm]

I was wondering about that big revelation. The letters that the detective found in the globe in the victim's room were signed Bennett. Is that the teacher's name? I didn't recognize it (but then I don't recognize the names of most of the characters yet. From what I read of the letter she was holding, it seemed more to be encouraging Rosie than to be romantic.
Yes, that is the teacher. You can read the letter in it's entirety on AMC's website. I don't recall it completely but it says something about how Rosie is an old soul in a young body and suggests that she should try everything in life. To me that sounds kind of creepy in a letter from a teacher to a 17 year old girl.

[AuntiePam]

I'm hoping the letters are something else for the detectives to misinterpret, like the "rape" in the cage. I don't want the teacher to be skeevy.

Who could Holder be talking to on the phone? We're led to assume he's talking about Linden when he says "She's not stupid", but maybe that's more misdirection.

Linden's fiance is a keeper.

[Chefguy]

Linden's fiance is a keeper.

Really? Both my wife and I find him to be the skeeviest character in the series so far. He looks like one of those people they hire for Viagra commercials.

[AuntiePam]

Skeevy because he's too accommodating, too patient ? Or skeevy based on his looks?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I find him skeevy too, and more obsequious than patient. I didn't like the way he snuck up on her and grabbed her from behind. That's the kind of a passive-aggressive, asshole move that gets really old really fast.

[Zeldar]

My reaction to Linden's fiance' is probably tainted by other roles that Callum Keith Rennie (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0719678/) has carried off convincingly, notably 24 and Harper's Island which are the more recent things I've seen him in. He suffers from the ability to be cast for darker characters and that may not be a reflection of his acting skills as much as his looks and the vibe he seems to convey. Many actors have that aspect.

Thus far I have been trying to be neutral on the characters, since the "red herring" and misdirection components of this series are so obvious. But if he winds up being a baddie, I can add another role to his list of creeps.

I'm going to be surprised if Michelle Forbes (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000405/) winds up being a baddie, because she's being very convincing as the grieving and obtuse mother.

[Corliss]

Not in the network version, but the pilot episode of Breaking Bad available on disk has bare boobs that were blurred for the network premiere.

This week's episode tried to imply that

the teacher is the murderer. It's an obvious red herring, IMO.

The teacher is most definitely a red herring now. Which is good because I don't want him to be responsible for Rosie's killing. This episode also seemed to imply that Kris, the teenage junkie KNOWS that Holder is a fellow junkie like himself. Was that a red herring or more misdirection? We'll see! I also found it interesting that the Chief so randomly dissed Holder about his clothing and appearance. That came out of nowhere.

[AuntiePam]

Okay, I'm changing my mind about the fiance. I was seduced by him bringing the wedding cake samples, but on second thought, it's manipulation, not thoughtfulness. Also, it took a second too long for him to make up with Jack (Jake? the kid) about eating the samples.

He reminds me a bit of Monte Markham, an actor from the 70's that I had a big crush on.

Mom seems to smart to believe that Rosie had no secrets, but maybe it's a defense mechanism. It's too soon to take away Rosie's angel status.

On review after seeing Corliss' comment about Holder's clothes. Linden was wearing jeans! Why jump on Holder? He's dressed for under cover, even if he isn't.

[Zeldar]

Is it just me or does Holder (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1172478/)bear too much resemblance to Mackenzie Crook (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0188871/) from the original (British) The Office?

[crowmanyclouds]

It's used in training for noobs who may not have smelled the odor before, and for undercover narcs (as mentioned). When I went through training as a volunteer, they actually lit up a bowl of the real stuff and passed it around. Some of the veteran cops in the room tended to hold onto it for longer than necessary. ;)Flashes back to that exact scene in Serpico.
They made it quite clear that Frank Serpico knew his way around a joint (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69WRoilMjv0)!

There must be some kind of fake marijuana or else I really did get high the day "Officer Friendly" came to our junior high school to give us the big drug lecture (complete with many visual aids and the "marijuana incense").

CMC fnord!

[Chefguy]

Skeevy because he's too accommodating, too patient ? Or skeevy based on his looks?

Just the way he looks. I don't particularly care for the "needypoutytempermentalguy" schtick, either.

[obfusciatrist]

Re the possible red herring:

I'm expecting that it will turn out that he was borderline skeevy. Maybe not actually involved with the girl but not entirely resisting her infatuation and letting himself be emotionally inappropriate with her.

So she got involved in a program he is involved with and that ultimately is the connection to the campaign manager who obviously killed her when she learned that she was sleeping with her senator father and that this information was being used by the girls Russian mob grandfather to blackmail him calling their political dynasty into doubt.

But this isn't L&O so probably not.

[John Mace]

What language was the guy speaking when he met Larsen in the cafe? I was thinking Larsen would be Danish or Swedish, but the language sounded like Russian. I actually had a hard time hearing it, so maybe I completely missed the boat on that.

I'm enjoying this more each episode. Not great, but pretty good.

[Surly Chick]

I'm joining late but I absolutely love this show. The scene where Rosie's parents discovered she was dead was heartbreaking and made me cry. The characters seem very real-life to me - as do the effects of the murder. You can watch Rosie's mom age in every episode. No one is beautifully made up and perfectly coiffed except the politicians, which is believable. The only thing I have complaint with is the bluish filter through which they're filming - Seattle isn't always that gloomy. Maybe I'll pick up some Blueblocker sunglasses and watch it through those...

[obfusciatrist]

The AMC web site (http://www.amctv.com/shows/the-killing/cast/janek-kovarsky/) suggests the character is Polish.

But I'm pretty sure I heard the Russian for "I don't know" when they first started talking.

[obfusciatrist]

Seattle isn't always that gloomy.

No it's not, but keep in mind that only four days has gone passed. And it is late October.

So I can accept it. But it does raise an issue, one writer I saw commented on how since only four days have passed the continued deep grief of the parents is completely right, but as a viewer a month has gone by and it starts to get repetitive.

[AuntiePam]

What language was the guy speaking when he met Larsen in the cafe? I was thinking Larsen would be Danish or Swedish, but the language sounded like Russian. I actually had a hard time hearing it, so maybe I completely missed the boat on that.

I'm enjoying this more each episode. Not great, but pretty good.

I thought he sounded like The Greek in The Wire, but maybe it was just that they were meeting in a cafe over coffee. :)

Anyone else mightily bugged by the casket salesman, er, funeral director, and the minister?

[Scubaqueen]

Given his conversation with Linden preceding the incident, his leading of the conversation with the two girls, and his sudden and immediate disinterest in them once they told him where the local kids hung out to get high, I find it really difficult to believe that his primary motive for being there was anything else than juicing a couple of young, gullible teenagers for information. He put himself directly in the path of the two girls -- it seemed to me like they had to walk by him to get where they were going, which I presumed was a storage locker or whatever. I mean, he was in narcotics before this, wasn't he? Manipulating the two girls for information by leveraging his rebellious status as a drug-user is exactly the kind of thing he'd have done a hundred times before during his tenure in a narcotics unit.

apparently not marijuana, if you believe what he told linden. he 'borrowed' something from the narc boys that looks and smells like the real thing.

[Zeldar]

Anyone else mightily bugged by the casket salesman, er, funeral director, and the minister?

Put me down for bugged, if not annoyed with the stereotyping. That guy would never make it on Six Feet Under. In fact, he'd make a poor vet.

[Skara_Brae]

My reaction to Linden's fiance' is probably tainted by other roles that Callum Keith Rennie (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0719678/) has carried off convincingly, notably 24 and Harper's Island which are the more recent things I've seen him in. He suffers from the ability to be cast for darker characters and that may not be a reflection of his acting skills as much as his looks and the vibe he seems to convey. Many actors have that aspect.



I wonder if they cast him with this in mind. Everyone seems to be slightly suspect at this point.

I want to like her fiance because Rennie played my favorite character from Battlestar Galatica, even though he was kind of a baddie there too.



Anyone else mightily bugged by the casket salesman, er, funeral director, and the minister?

Yeah, they both bugged me too. You would think they would both have much more experience (and compassion) dealing with people paralyzed with grief.

[obfusciatrist]

Huh, doing a Google search, it seems like Narc Scent is a real thing.

[obfusciatrist]

Yeah, they both bugged me too. You would think they would both have much more experience (and compassion) dealing with people paralyzed with grief.

You'd think so, but in my relatively minimal experience with such things I've been amazed at how unhelpful these people have been. Admittedly, the guy who did my great-grandmother's service (I didn't even know she considered herself a member of a church until she died) had no idea who she was, but he did a piss poor job masking that.

[Eyebrows 0f Doom]

So I can accept it. But it does raise an issue, one writer I saw commented on how since only four days have passed the continued deep grief of the parents is completely right, but as a viewer a month has gone by and it starts to get repetitive.

Yeah, this is starting to be a problem for me. I appreciate that within the story it is correct for the parents to still be in shock and grieving, after all they haven't even had her funeral yet, but all the constant standing around staring quietly is really starting to get tiring.

And yeah the coffin salesman seemed to be over the top in his obnoxiousness. I kept thinking how he'd be fired from Fischer & Sons for acting like that.

[AuntiePam]

The coffin salesman redeemed himself a bit in this episode.

Somebody tell me -- where do the Larsens live? Is it close to Stan's business? Same building? Next door? I can't figure out why the boy's wet jammies ended up in the trash at the moving van place. In some scenes, it looks like they live in an industrial area.

Also, how is Mireille pronounced?

I liked this episode. I don't think Bennet is the killer but they're sure leading us that way.

[Chefguy]

The coffin salesman redeemed himself a bit in this episode.

Somebody tell me -- where do the Larsens live? Is it close to Stan's business? Same building? Next door? I can't figure out why the boy's wet jammies ended up in the trash at the moving van place. In some scenes, it looks like they live in an industrial area.

Also, how is Mireille pronounced?

I liked this episode. I don't think Bennet is the killer but they're sure leading us that way.

It's a French name that I love. Pronounced something like: meer-RAY, but there's a back of the throat thing with the "R" that is impossible to describe.

[Shark Sandwich]

Anyone else think they're going to see an image in the handlebar mirror on the bike that Rosie filmed?

[AuntiePam]

Anyone else think they're going to see an image in the handlebar mirror on the bike that Rosie filmed?

Probably, if it's possible. I'm curious about the image that looked like a graphic.

Nitpick: Linden and Holder are talking to the principal, and Linden says she'll need the name (a student at Bennett's former school, I think). The principal starts to write something but then they leave without getting the name or the piece of paper.

Also, Sepinwall wrote in his review that now Linden suspects she's on the trail of a serial killer. What did I miss? I heard nothing to indicate that. I changed channels at 10 to catch Game of Thrones. Did I miss a scene?

[guizot]

Put me down for bugged, if not annoyed with the stereotyping. That guy would never make it on Six Feet Under. In fact, he'd make a poor vet.Yes, none of the funeral directors I worked with were ever like that. It's worse than a stereotype--it's just someone's arbitrary imagination.

[Chefguy]

I noticed the failure to get the name also. A procedural thing that bugged me was when the teacher suddenly lunges for a desk drawer and both cops just stand there looking at him. One or both should have hollered "Stop!" or at least unsnapped.

[Lakai]

Also, Sepinwall wrote in his review that now Linden suspects she's on the trail of a serial killer. What did I miss? I heard nothing to indicate that. I changed channels at 10 to catch Game of Thrones. Did I miss a scene?

There was a scene where Linden gets back the lab report and finds out that ammonium chloride was all over Rosie's body. She makes a remark about how they're probably dealing with a professional who probably killed before.

[Dewey Finn]

Wasn't that the same chemical they found in the teacher's house (next to the floor stain and other stuff)? I think the person who gave her the report even mentioned flooring as a possible use for the stuff. Basically yesterday's show did everything possible to point the finger of suspicion at that teacher. Which of course means that he didn't do it, because no way are we getting the identity of the killer this quickly. (Unless this is going to be like the TV series Columbo, where the whole story is about how the detective gets the killer to confess.)

[Eyebrows 0f Doom]

Wasn't that the same chemical they found in the teacher's house (next to the floor stain and other stuff)? I think the person who gave her the report even mentioned flooring as a possible use for the stuff.

Yeah, that's why she told the examiner to look for that chemical on Rosie's body.

[Zeldar]

Stan sure has something going on! The whole bathroom reaction thing and the curiosity about the guy at the school and the funny money he got from the Russian. They're painting Stan to be up to something that probably will wind up having nothing to do with the murder.

And all this worrying over the leaks in the campaign has to mean something. Right? What?

They're trying hard to have at least three simultaneous mysteries going on each episode and maybe resolving (or tightening the noose on) at least one a week.

Fun show!

[HazelNutCoffee]

It's moving very sloooooowly. This sounds awful, but the grief of the family is getting a bit . . . annoying. I mean, they portray it very realistically but this whole one-day-at-a-time set up of the series doesn't work well in this aspect.

I'm still having fun watching it.

[DigitalC]

What the hell was the deal with the sister... i think it's the sister. She got dissed by someone at the funeral and took it out on Stans coworker then went and smoked pot while having a breakdown. Is this more of the sad family stuff, which yes it is getting very annoying, or is there something more to it? the guy at the funeral very blatantly blew her off.

[AuntiePam]

And what's with Bennet's wife refusing to answer the door to the detectives, and holding a hammer?

It'll be fun to rewatch the series after it's over, seeing how all the pieces come together.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

It's not going to be the teacher anyway, so this whole angle feels like kind of a jerkoff.

Is the politician guy supposed to be unlikable, or is it just me? I find him smarmy, and his affair with the campaign manager to be distasteful.

[AuntiePam]

I don't find him smarmy, but I don't like how his purity makes him stand out from everyone else. Wouldn't he have like-minded people in his inner circle? It just seems phony that he's always arguing with the people closest to him. If they don't like his honesty (if it's genuine), why are they working for him? Why does he put up with people telling him to go against his values (if his values are genuine).

[drastic_quench]

I can't believe the victim drowned, because this show loves treading water.

[Morbo]

Sad to say, it's starting to lose me. The pre-credits scene where nothing happened really at all kind of set me off a little - there's artistically slow, then there's "why am I watching this"? I'm drifting towards the latter.

[Chefguy]

While the red herrings are starting to annoy me, I'm still enjoying it. Something has to break soon.

[Lethal Babydoll]

This is not an official answer. but as someone who has read a lot of mystery fiction and seen mystery shows and movies, i'm 99 percent sure this is the killer:

Rose's aunt.

A character hanging around the fringes for no good reason except to be revealed as the perp at the end.

[davidm]

Here is what it looks like to me at the moment. Bennet's wife killed Rosie (out of jealousy?) when Bennet wasn't there and then her and Bennet disposed of the body together when he got home later. Probably another red herring but it's hard to explain Rosie being seen there by a neighbor during a period for which Bennet had an alibi, Bennet's reaction to being questioned about it, and the neighbor with the telescope seeing two people apparently moving a body later that night.

[Eyebrows 0f Doom]

This is the slowest moving show I have ever seen. Did anything happen during the last episode!? There was nothing new added to the plot except in the final second with the FBI agents.

This is why Law & Order and all the other cop shows condense these events into one hour. Nothing happens except people staring meaningfully at something out of view!

[davidm]

Sure things happened. They absolved one suspect and are now looking for a different one. And now, with the addition of the FBI, it's looking like suspected terrorism is involved.

That will likely also turn out to be a red herring, of course.

I'm not even going to try to guess at this point who the killer was, since the writers are tossing those herrings left and right, making it pretty much impossible to figure it out from clues.

Maybe it was Bob.

[Dewey Finn]

This is the slowest moving show I have ever seen. Did anything happen during the last episode!? There was nothing new added to the plot except in the final second with the FBI agents.
I hope that you're not surprised by this. We knew this going in. The show is thirteen episodes long and follows one murder investigation one day at a time. I suppose that's better than the Danish original, which was twenty episodes long. I mean, if you read anything about the show when it started, you would have seen references to Rubicon. And yes, Law & Order, CSI and other similar shows move much more quickly, but perhaps a tad unrealistically. I mean, a typical episode of CSI seems to involve a murder, an investigation (including DNA analysis), interrogation and a confession all during a single overnight shift? So perhaps this show is more real, in particular, in showing the impact to the family and friends.

[Zeldar]

For my tastes the show is in a good spot on the schedule for me to continue watching. It's beginning to look like AMC is trying too hard to match the hits they've had in Mad Men and Breaking Bad but with distinctly inferior products. Rubicon is the only other one of their newer shows that I stuck with in spite of its weak production values.

Perhaps a stronger cast might have worked, but I think the major flaw is in taking a one or two hour concept and trying to make a series out of it. The writing is weak and the acting doesn't help it along.

At this stage I honestly don't care who killed the girl and I don't have any interest in the politics. The only character I have any connection with emotionally is Linden and she's just not enough to make the show fun.

But with nothing else on at that hour of the week, I'll watch it anyway.

If it matters, I feel much the same toward The Borgias.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

If the killer is the same as who it was in the Danish series, it's going to make for a very anti-climactic finale. If anyone wants to know, the killer in the original series was that guy who works for the victim's dad.

[cmkeller]

Well, I've enjoyed the first four episodes of this series, but it doesn't look like AMC is in any hurry to put the newer ones on their web site. Shame.

I suspect the Lieutenant cop is the killer, or at least involved. It makes zero sense to me how he's hounding Linden to stay past her intended resignation to handle this case. He's got a whole department, or at least precinct full of presumably competent cops who can take the case. It's not like they're never allowed to leave the job, surely police departments have protocols for transferring live cases when someone is poised to resign. I think he feels she's someone he can manipulate if she gets too close to the truth, unlike, say, the irreverent new guy.

[HazelNutCoffee]

If the killer is the same as who it was in the Danish series, it's going to make for a very anti-climactic finale. If anyone wants to know, the killer in the original series was that guy who works for the victim's dad.
Haha, really? The boyfriend and I predicted this after watching the latest episode.

I think we'll still watch the series but it's seriously dragging its heels. We might give The Borgias or Camelot a try.

[Eyebrows 0f Doom]

I hope that you're not surprised by this. We knew this going in. The show is thirteen episodes long and follows one murder investigation one day at a time. I suppose that's better than the Danish original, which was twenty episodes long. I mean, if you read anything about the show when it started, you would have seen references to Rubicon.

Well you may have known this, but I knew nothing about it other than it was a series about a murder and is made by AMC who have had great successes with their other original shows. I have no idea what Rubicon is. I actually thought "The Killing" would be only 6 or 7 episodes, so yes finding out it is 13 is a bit of a surprise.

[Tarwater]

If the killer is the same as who it was in the Danish series, it's going to make for a very anti-climactic finale. If anyone wants to know, the killer in the original series was that guy who works for the victim's dad.

One of the producers -- or maybe the creator of the American version, I'm not sure -- has said that the killer will be different in this version, although I wouldn't be surprised if that was an attempt at misdirection.

[DigitalC]

Every episode is basically just sad family being sad, new suspect being introduced and old suspect getting crossed off, campaign guy continues to do worse. I don't think i can handle any more of this show, i just want to know who did it at this point and move on.

[AuntiePam]

Well, now they're just getting silly.

Linden hears Holder give testimony at NA and decides he's okay. She's apparently forgotten about the envelope full of cash.

Her son is troubled enough to send crime scene photos to his friends, and instead of spending time with him, she goes off to listen to a wiretap.

Stan takes it upon himself to clear out Rosie's room. Does he not know his wife at all?

Richmond is reminded of his loss and decides to play dirty. ::yawn::

The mayor doesn't whisk his mistress off somewhere when the shit hits the fan, and the woman actually talks to reporters. Even if she's only saying "Fuck off", mistresses never talk to reporters, at least not until they're promoting their book.

The agent leaves Linden alone with the evidence.

Linden assumes the tee shirt belongs to Rosie. Why the shirt? Why not something else?

Are they ripping off The Wire? Is Rosie's killer a valuable informant and the FBI's protecting him? With Oakes pulling Linden off the case, it looks like that's where they're going.

Whatever. I'll keep watching, but I agree with Sepinwall. The writers haven't given us enough information or background on any of the characters. At this point anyone could be the killer and I wouldn't be surprised.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I thought the scene with Holden at the NA meeting was actually pretty moving. The rest of the epsode was kind of meh.

[AuntiePam]

Yeah, it was a good scene, but is it enough to make Linden suddenly trust him?

Anyway, Bubbles' scene in The Wire was better. :)

[Tarwater]

Well, now they're just getting silly.

Linden hears Holder give testimony at NA and decides he's okay. She's apparently forgotten about the envelope full of cash.


Are you talking about the cash Holder is giving to his sponsor so that he isn't spending his entire paycheck on drugs? Linden heard him talking about that, didn't she?

[Tangent]

The agent leaves Linden alone with the evidence.

Yeah, I was :rolleyes: when that happened.

"You need to look at this evidence? I don't believe your story, so I'm going to leave you alone with the evidence while I go check your story out." :smack:

[AuntiePam]

Are you talking about the cash Holder is giving to his sponsor so that he isn't spending his entire paycheck on drugs? Linden heard him talking about that, didn't she?

Is that the cash was about? I totally missed that.

Okay, now I feel bad for bitching. But only about that part. :)

[Mr. Excellent]

If the killer is the same as who it was in the Danish series, it's going to make for a very anti-climactic finale. If anyone wants to know, the killer in the original series was that guy who works for the victim's dad.

Heh. I'd guessed this as well. Soft-spoken guy with a violent past, strange bond to the victim's family and mysterious "sources" that we never hear or see?

Yup. That's our killer. Probably "feels bad" about it, too, hence the "helping."

[John Mace]

Is Linden wearing the same sweater in every episode, or am I just imagining that?

I'm still liking this show, although I do agree there are some plot holes that make you go :dubious:.

Was there anyone who didn't think Mom was going to leave the kids in the car as soon as she started it up with the garage door closed?

[AuntiePam]

Is Linden wearing the same sweater in every episode, or am I just imagining that?

I think she has two gray sweaters, one plain and one with the white things around the neckline. They look like wool and they should be stinky by now.

Was there anyone who didn't think Mom was going to leave the kids in the car as soon as she started it up with the garage door closed?

Yeah, who does that?

Did anyone else think Stan was leering at the sister doing dishes? Maybe not a leer, but it was a tender look. And with the previously showing Mitch turning him down for sex, it looked like that's where the scene was going. Man needs a hug. :)

[DigitalC]

Well, now they're just getting silly.

Linden hears Holder give testimony at NA and decides he's okay. She's apparently forgotten about the envelope full of cash.


I thought finding out that her son was the leak and not him is what changed her mind.

[AuntiePam]

I thought finding out that her son was the leak and not him is what changed her mind.

Probably. But who needs her more right now -- her son or Holder? She's reinforcing to her son that her job is the most important thing in her life.

[DigitalC]

Probably. But who needs her more right now -- her son or Holder? She's reinforcing to her son that her job is the most important thing in her life.

Well yeah, i was just commenting on why she seemed to trust Holder again. As far as the bag of cash goes i thought they went out of their way to point out that the sponsor kept all of Holder's money and gave him an allowance to get by while Linden was listening in.

[AuntiePam]

I totally missed the part about the sponsor and the cash. My husband was watching for the first time and he kept asking questions. Don't you hate when that happens?

[Erdosain]

I think she has two gray sweaters, one plain and one with the white things around the neckline. They look like wool and they should be stinky by now.

Yeah, I doubt there's a washer/dryer hook up on the boat. I bet she smells like wet dog. If those two showed up on my doorstep claiming to be police detectives, I'd laugh in their faces.


Did anyone else think Stan was leering at the sister doing dishes? Maybe not a leer, but it was a tender look. And with the previously showing Mitch turning him down for sex, it looked like that's where the scene was going. Man needs a hug. :)

No, you were right the first time--that was a straight-up leer. And creepy, too. Although, I guess you could argue he's attracted to the woman who is keeping his other two kids alive. That scene in the second episode where the kid goes out in his pajamas to buy milk was heartbreaking.

I pretty much gave up on this show a couple of weeks ago when nothing happened yet again, but there's nothing else on, and it does have its moments. I just wish they'd give the audience a bit more credit with respect to red herrings. I don't mind a slowly paced show, but this is verging on laborious.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

The red herrings wouldn't be so bad if they still played fair and threw in some real clues once in a while.

[Tangent]

Anyone watch the new one yet?

On the positive side, things actually happened in this episode. I liked Linden using the phones to locate her suspect in the market. Also, Bennet's real reason for lying about the night Rosie died was interesting, however...

On the negative side, I've been afraid they were going to go the "Mystic River" route with that storyline, and indeed they have. (By the way, when Rosie's dad was pounding away on Bennet, was the other guy actually beating up a rock?) Also, the politician storyline is still boring.

How many episodes are left?

[ShelliBean]

Yeah, that guy really beat the shit out of that rock, and was screaming "No, no, no!" when the dad pulled him off Bennett. Like Erdosain said, I don't mind the red herrings so much - I mean, why would someone watch a multiple episode murder mystery unless she knew she was in for them? But I would like to have multiple red herrings going at once instead of "Ok the next few episodes you will hate Muslim guy. Next week you will hate blondie. And then you will suspect the mayor. Make it so."

I really like this show. I wish I had more self control and hadn't read the spoiler, but of course everything points to it now.

[Eyebrows 0f Doom]

Are we supposed to not like Mitch? Because she is really irritating me. I still don't care at all about the senator storyline. This was episode what? Nine? So there are how many left? Seems like the only two people who haven't been suspects yet are the blonde senator's aide & the sister, so I'm gonna say it's one of them. In any other show I'd think it was meant to be suspicious when the sister brought home Rosie's books, but there is so much extraneous information in this show that it'll probably just have no meaning.

At least things actually happened in this episode.

[AuntiePam]

In any other show I'd think it was meant to be suspicious when the sister brought home Rosie's books, but there is so much extraneous information in this show that it'll probably just have no meaning.


What did she say about the books -- that Rosie left them in her car? Or were the books in the house? I didn't read anything into that except as an excuse for Mitch to go to the school and see Bennet.

I've decided it's best not to view the show as a mystery, but as an example of an investigation, the things that can go wrong, jumping to conclusions, misinterpreting people's actions, and how a family can be destroyed when a family member is murdered.

Because it makes NO sense to me that Bennet didn't reveal what he was up to. The police are after him, Rosie's dad is after him, he's a pariah at school, his program lost its funding, the mosque is being defaced, etc. and he's walking around like if he keeps quiet, it will all just go away.

It also made little sense that Mitch is all broken down again, yet a little while later she's doing laundry. But then it made no sense to me that they'd assume the pink shirt belonged to Rosie. A good cop would have had Mitch search for Rosie's shirt, to make sure it was the same one.

I'm also disappointed with Linden going along with an illegal wiretap. Maybe she would, but we don't know enough about her character to know if she'd do that.

Should we assume Bennet is dead?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I think the show is getting really tedious. It's just turning into Law and Order at this point. That chase through the mall was ridiculously contrived.

[AuntiePam]

That too! Why was the guy at the market for three hours? I guess he had to be in one place long enough for his location to be tracked and for the cops to arrive. Very contrived.

How did Linden get a photo of him?

[Snooooopy]

That too! Why was the guy at the market for three hours? I guess he had to be in one place long enough for his location to be tracked and for the cops to arrive. Very contrived.

What, you've never spent three hours at the market trying to decide which package of blueberries is the absolute freshest?

[ShelliBean]

How did Linden get a photo of him?

It was an old photo from the DMV - they noted it was the only one they could find and it was out of date.

Yeah, the chase through the produce was a little much for me, but I feel like I've invested this much into it, I'm going to see it through. I do have moments of hating Mitch, but I try to keep in mind that maybe I'd be bitchy and rough around the edges if my daughter died nine days ago. It must be better than I give it credit for, because when she pulled the pink shirt out my heart sank. It seems like the teacher is dead, but maybe he will pull through, look awful, become the physical manifestation of all that is wrong with the world and assumptions, and everyone will vote for Councilman Richards when they find out just how strong his character is by staying loyal to Ahmed when all others doubted him and showing the rest of characters their true colors. Oh wait, that was all the other crime dramas I've seen. Maybe he's dead and Mitch and her husband secretly learn to distrust and resent each other as they carry the secret to the grave of the murder of the teacher. Or maybe they become the largest crime family in Washington and carry out revenge hits on murderers of children. :)

[Zeldar]

ShelliBean, I like the way you think and put things. I'm determined to watch this show until its bitter end, and no longer have the remotest hope that it will be fulfilling by the time it's over, and I surely hope the AMC execs will bail out on this concept and the Rubicon concept in their quest for another Breaking Bad or Mad Men.

The parallels to Twin Peaks continue to become manifest with the "write yourself into a corner" approach to plot development and character justifications. Red herrings simply do not a mystery make. And there are only x-number of changes of heart on whether Character A is guilty or not.

I honestly do not care who killed the girl, who gets elected and whether Linden ever gets out of Seattle. But I'm masochist enough to watch another episode, on the off chance that I may be too jaded.

[kbear]

I usually iron or something to justify watching TV during the day so sometimes I miss the details. Can someone explain the red shirt? This is what Mitch was holding at the end when she couldn't get hold of her husband?

[DigitalC]

It is the same shirt Linden ask her to identify, they found it at the crime scene. Basically it was just coincidence instead of evidence. I hope that rock was ok because it is the only likeable thing on this show.

[Dewey Finn]

Wasn't the shirt that Linden asked her to identify found in that room in the mosque?

[DigitalC]

Yes, that's the point. They found that shirt, they thought it was Rosie's, turned out to belong to the other girl.

[Dewey Finn]

I just wanted to clarify at which crime scene they found that shirt.

[DigitalC]

Well the room wasn't in the mosque then, it was in some random building.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Why was that dude beating up a boulder in the background? Was that just to show us he has a batshit insane side?

It's funny, as things seemed to point to Bennet not being the suspect, I said, "What about that pink shirt?" and voila, pink shirt in laundry appears.

The room wasn't in a mosque, it was in some warehouse. Linden got an anonymous tip in her show about the location when she was visiting the mosque. Come to think of it, who tipped her off?

[Erdosain]

Why was that dude beating up a boulder in the background? Was that just to show us he has a batshit insane side?

It's funny, as things seemed to point to Bennet not being the suspect, I said, "What about that pink shirt?" and voila, pink shirt in laundry appears.

The room wasn't in a mosque, it was in some warehouse. Linden got an anonymous tip in her show about the location when she was visiting the mosque. Come to think of it, who tipped her off?

I think sidekick guy beating up the rock was just a plot device so that he'll have injuries on his knuckles and be able to take the rap for maiming/killing Bennet. If so, it's just another example of some really poor writing on this show.

I should probably stop watching because even when things do happen, they annoy me.

[AuntiePam]

The room wasn't in a mosque, it was in some warehouse. Linden got an anonymous tip in her shoe about the location when she was visiting the mosque. Come to think of it, who tipped her off?

That's something else that doesn't make sense. If that anonymous woman knew that girls were being rescued and where they were being held, why would she tell anyone?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Presumably she and Bennet and Muhammed didn't talk because they were afraid the girls would be returned to their abusive families. Whether keeping that secret is worth taking a murder rap for is dubious, but the story needed some kind of contrivance to sustain the red herring.

This show is like a cross between Law and Order and Three's Company. We see a bunch of things that make a character look suspicious, and then ooohh, there's an innocent explanation for all of it. Next week they'll probably find a dead, underaged hooker in the politician's car, and he won't have ana alibi for the timeline, and then ooohh, it will turn out that she's his niece, and she had ODed, and he was rushing her to the hospital when he got pulled over.

[Erdosain]

It seems to me that if you are the chief suspect in a sensational murder case, so much so that your name is being bandied about during a mayoral campaign debate and you are nearly murdered by the victim's father, if you had the good sense that God gave gravy, you might start trying to clear your name, even at the risk of your illegal quixotic and noble attempt to stop a female circumcision. But I'm just a selfish bastard like that.

[Zeldar]

This might make for an entire thread, but since it at least applies to The Killing I'll mention it here.

Is there all that significant a cluster of Somali immigrants in Seattle? I find it hard to fathom that an Eastern African people would choose West Coast USA as a destination to go to as a group. It would make more sense for them to head more or less north to Denmark than to cross two continents and an ocean. So was the original Danish production big on Somalis or what?

I believe there's a significant group of Vietnamese in Edmonton Alberta so the notion isn't totally strange, just peculiar to the casual observer. That other potential thread might address other counter-intuitive movements of migration, if the interest were sufficient.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

There are clusters of immigrant populations like that all over the US. There is a sizable Somali community here in the Twin Cities, as well as a large Hmong community, a West African community and others.

They become self-perpetuating. The initial influx is often driven by employment opportunities, and then once a community is established, it becomes an on obvious magnet for more extended family and other new immigrants of that same origin.

[Erdosain]

Just googling, it appears there is a sizable Somali community in Seattle, though not nearly as big as the Somali population in Minnesota.

What ethnicity was the teacher in the Danish version? Wiki says the character name was "Rama" and was played by Iranian-born actor Farshad Kholghi.

[AuntiePam]

Presumably she and Bennet and Muhammed didn't talk because they were afraid the girls would be returned to their abusive families. Whether keeping that secret is worth taking a murder rap for is dubious, but the story needed some kind of contrivance to sustain the red herring.

Then it makes even less sense. If the woman simply keeps quiet, there's a better chance that they'll be able to continue saving the girls. Once the cops find them, the best the girls can hope for is foster care. That's assuming the government will want to get involved with a religious practice.

This show is like a cross between Law and Order and Three's Company. We see a bunch of things that make a character look suspicious, and then ooohh, there's an innocent explanation for all of it. Next week they'll probably find a dead, underaged hooker in the politician's car, and he won't have ana alibi for the timeline, and then ooohh, it will turn out that she's his niece, and she had ODed, and he was rushing her to the hospital when he got pulled over.

Perzackly.

[A. Gwilliam]

What ethnicity was the teacher in the Danish version? Wiki says the character name was "Rama" and was played by Iranian-born actor Farshad Kholghi.
Rama was from Syria.

I'm finding this thread interesting, trying to work out what changes have been made from the original... and why!

I shall say no more for now, for obvious reasons. :)

[Morbo]

I think the show is getting really tedious. It's just turning into Law and Order at this point. That chase through the mall was ridiculously contrived.

Yep. Back on Page 3 I started thinking that way, and nothing's changed for me. That chase...ugh. I actually said out loud "she's going to magically go around and corner him with her gun drawn."

Yet here I am still watching...since there's nothing else Sunday night for me. (I don't get HBO any more).

[HazelNutCoffee]

Huh. So the psycho pal of the dad's was another red herring.

Is Rosie's killer going to be completely out of the blue?

[newcomer]

Huh. So the psycho pal of the dad's was another red herring.

Is Rosie's killer going to be completely out of the blue? I was wondering exact same thing. They are running out of candidates that were around.

My guess is that Gwen did it to protect Darren and I think he had no clue.

[AuntiePam]

I turned it off after Linden went off on her friend and dumped her kid in the motel.

I turned it back on during the repeat, after reading a post at TWOP where somebody said "Oh wow, it's really getting good!" :dubious:

I almost turned it off again when Linden was jogging and saw the "Adela" sign. For pete's sake. Couldn't she have found that ferry by googling "Adela"?

The actor playing Belko did a good job. I missed the part where Linden and Holder visited his mother. She's 70 and wears sexy negligee around the house? What's her story?

[salinqmind]

The mother is a horrible old whore is what's with that. Drink in one hand, cigarette in the other, giving Holder the once over. She said it was just her and Belko though she 'entertained' gentlemen callers. At one point she casually told them how she killed Belko's cat!... Belko told the detectives his mother has dressed in sexy lingerie forever, is still doing it, and he would hear the old whore at night, doing her thing with assorted men. Belko began hanging out with Rosie's family to avoid the old horror, even sleeping in their garage at night sometimes.

Haven't heard much about Linden's son until lately, now he's 'acting up' - I predict he's going to play a part in the ending to this thing. The fiance came across country with plane tickets and she said she wasn't going with him and he left? It's only been a week since the murder, he doesn't want to wait a little longer? THAT is what was really worrying me since the beginning, I knew that wedding was doomed from the start.

[Chefguy]

I turned it off after Linden went off on her friend and dumped her kid in the motel.

I turned it back on during the repeat, after reading a post at TWOP where somebody said "Oh wow, it's really getting good!" :dubious:

I almost turned it off again when Linden was jogging and saw the "Adela" sign. For pete's sake. Couldn't she have found that ferry by googling "Adela"?

The actor playing Belko did a good job. I missed the part where Linden and Holder visited his mother. She's 70 and wears sexy negligee around the house? What's her story?

She was a prostitute, or at least a woman who had a lot of "men friends".

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I was wondering exact same thing. They are running out of candidates that were around.

My guess is that Gwen did it to protect Darren and I think he had no clue.
That was my theory after the first episode, then I Googled to see whodunnit in the oroginal series, assumed this one was going in that same direction and forgot about it. Now it looks like they're changing that up for the US series, which leads me back to the Gwen theory. There aren't a whole lot of candidates left. There's still Linden's fiance, I guess, but other than that, they'd have to make it some really peripheral character who's barely been in it.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Haven't heard much about Linden's son until lately, now he's 'acting up' - I predict he's going to play a part in the ending to this thing. The fiance came across country with plane tickets and she said she wasn't going with him and he left? It's only been a week since the murder, he doesn't want to wait a little longer? THAT is what was really worrying me since the beginning, I knew that wedding was doomed from the start.
The point about Linden's kid acting is agood one, and might be a clue pointing at the fiance. Though it would be a bit contrived to make the killer coincidentally be the boyfriend of the investigating detective, it would explain why he wants to get her off the case.

And where was he all that time he wasn't answering her calls (I mean, I know where he was supposed to be, but where was he really)?

[AuntiePam]

The point about Linden's kid acting is agood one, and might be a clue pointing at the fiance. Though it would be a bit contrived to make the killer coincidentally be the boyfriend of the investigating detective, it would explain why he wants to get her off the case.

And where was he all that time he wasn't answering her calls (I mean, I know where he was supposed to be, but where was he really)?

I'd probably shoot the TV if Rick's the killer. :) He wants her off the case because they had set a date for the wedding. I think in the first episode someone said Linden said the wedding was two weeks away.

I think he wasn't taking her calls for the reason he stated -- he wanted her to come to him. Stupid of him to buy plane tickets, but maybe he's got money to waste.

I'd shoot the TV if it was Gwen too. She did seem a bit miffed at the video though. Can't see Gwen chasing Rosie through the woods.

Is the kid not in school? God, she's a terrible mother. Does she even call and check up on him? Make sure he's got money for food?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I'd probably shoot the TV if Rick's the killer. :) He wants her off the case because they had set a date for the wedding.
See, this is part of what makes it suspicious. What man is in such a hurry to get married? Most guys would be like, "take all the time you want, take a year, no rush. ;)
Is the kid not in school? God, she's a terrible mother. Does she even call and check up on him? Make sure he's got money for food?
I didn't like how she got so pissy at her friend and left the boat after being called out on her absentee parenting either.

[HazelNutCoffee]

I thought we saw a more human side of Linden in this episode. I found the interrogation scene pretty riveting - Linden always seems so stoic and determined, it was interesting to see her take a go at the suspect. And the scene where she stormed off the boat - she knows she's a bad parent but she doesn't know what to do about it. Or is unwilling to do what is necessary. Either way being called out on it probably just made her feel defensive. I thought it was pretty believable.

Gwen does look like a good candidate now. I'm not sure what would connect Rosie to the campaign though. Did she see something she shouldn't have?

[ShelliBean]

I've moved to the land before time, aka new house without cable, so I missed this episode. I am going to restrain myself from reading further commentary but may give in since I dint know how I'll see the show later anyway.

I am a sad bean right now.

[Erdosain]

I always watch the show on TiVo so I'm consistently a few days behind.

Anyway, I'm glad they didn't drag out the Belko red herring like they did with the teacher. I mean they stretched that out over 7 episodes--do they think we've never seen a crime show before? Have some respect for your viewers!

Note: I've been avoiding all spoilers, so I don't even know who did it in the Danish version. The following is all speculation.

I think it has been clear from episode 1 that the killer would have to be closely tied in with the campaign storyline. Otherwise there is no way to justify the sheer number of minutes they've given to the election. (That's why there's no way it was Rick!) That means the suspect pool is pretty shallow: it has to be one of the three main campaign people or someone very close to them (like Gwen's dad.)

I kind of respected the teacher red herring for that reason: at least he was someone sufficiently involved in the campaign storyline to be a plausible suspect.

Am I the only one wondering about the sloppy police work so far? If Rosie was on a call at 10:45 pm at home, wouldn't have that shown up either on the house LUDs or her cell bill? They could have not wasted a week grilling the teacher.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

They showed an ominous shot of Gwen on the boat at the end of the episode, so it's probably not her.

Gwen's father is a good candidate. Law of economy of characters and all that.

[Tarwater]

Am I the only one wondering about the sloppy police work so far?

I've recently noticed that, too. It's been what, ten episodes? How much actual policework have we seen from Linden and Holder? It seems to me that the only time they make progress with the case is when they notice something, visually, that's almost stupidly obvious.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Gwen was on the boat? With Linden? I don't remember seeing her.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I could have made a mistake, I was peering in from another room and I thought the last shot was Gwen on the boat. Maybe it was Linden.

[newcomer]

They showed an ominous shot of Gwen on the boat at the end of the episode, so it's probably not her.

Gwen's father is a good candidate. Law of economy of characters and all that. What would be Gwen's father motive?

I can see Gwen, Rosie and Darren triangle. That video snippet with Darren and Rosie shaking hands at some event had an eerie resemblance to Clinton-Lewinsky hug we've seen and a suggestion all that carries with it. I think...

[Erdosain]

What would be Gwen's father motive?

I can see Gwen, Rosie and Darren triangle. That video snippet with Darren and Rosie shaking hands at some event had an eerie resemblance to Clinton-Lewinsky hug we've seen and a suggestion all that carries with it. I think...

Gwen's father's motive would have to be covering up an affair. Rosie had three-thousand dollar shoes in her room--they've never gone back to that but it's clear she was having an affair with someone rich. I would say Jasper's dad is a possibilty but he's not involved in the campaign.

Speaking of Jasper's dad, we still have to have some resolution to his snub of Mitch's sister at the wake.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Was that Jasper's dad? Is Jasper the rich guy that Rosie had been dating previously?

I do remember that scene and wondering who the hell that guy was. My immediate assumption was that they'd had an affair.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

What a waste of an hour this episode was. Just pure filler. They were trying to kill an epsidode by having Linden's kid go missing, but there was never a second of tension in it. This is not a show that's going to do anything edgy or unconventional.

Plus Linden is so unlikeable that I was rooting for her NOT to find the kid. Incidentally, what kind of detective is she that she never evn thought to call his dad? That should have been one of her first call.

Holder is a born-again Christian? What a dud of a character he's turning out to be.

And

[Eyebrows 0f Doom]

:rolleyes: I fucking hate this show. :rolleyes:

I think that was the most useless hour of TV I have ever seen. I've seen more drama in infomercials.

[John Mace]

I've been enjoying this show more or less, but this was terrible. Terrible. It's like we took a turn down a dead end road for no reason at all. I'm sure the writers were thinking this was all "character development", but even if it was, how about doing it a little at a time, and a whole lot earlier in the series.

This was a complete WTF???

[Eyebrows 0f Doom]

This really felt like a complete "Fuck you" from the writers of this series. "We know we don't have enough story to fill a whole season, and we've run out of possible suspects to consider! Here's some bullshit that doesn't mean anything or have anything to do with the actual, you know, killing of the title."

[Tarwater]

I didn't think the episode was that bad, at least not as bad as the garbage that's come before it. Linden was obnoxious, though. The whole, "You don't know me and you don't know my son!" as Holder was trying to get her back into the car was trite and juvenile, and not something that an ostensibly intelligent adult should have been doing. Joel Kinnaman was fun to watch. He's such a great actor. Nothing his character revealed about himself this episode resonated with anything else that was going on in the series, so it was something of a waste. Just pointless, thoughtless blather about his past and his recovery. It just didn't click with anything that was going on. Same with Linden's story about the kid who ends up "in the system," so to speak.

I was pleased, however, to see that the writers were putting work into developing the characters, even if it was a little sloppy. This should have been something that was happening all along, though. We're just starting to hear about the characters' motivations in episode eleven? What the fuck. This should have been something the writers were doing from the outset. Linden is essentially the protagonist, and the audience was supposed to be empathizing with her from the start of the series, but up until this episode, she's been a cypher and a person with whom the audience has no emotional connection. She's been about as drab and emotionally unappealing as those ugly sweaters she wears all the time.

I'm disappointed that the series is returning to its typical narrative structure, covering the family and the politicians in addition to the detectives. At this point there's basically no tension in the main story. I don't care about the politician, whatever his name is. I've forgotten. And I sure as fuck don't care about the family, least of all Mitch, who's probably the most repellent character I've seen in television in a long time, and not in a way that's interesting to watch. I no longer care about Rosie, or catching her killer. I mean, why should I? Any tension and emotional heft that her murder carried in the series opening has long since evaporated.

[Chefguy]

I'm with the bitter bunch. What a piece of shit this was. An hour of touchy-feely between these two mopes? I hope the murderer kills them both and goes looking for the producer.

[Tangent]

I wish I had quit this show several episodes ago. As it is, now I feel like a I have to watch the last two episodes just so it wasn't all for naught. But man, this thing really sucks.

[Tarwater]

I'm with the bitter bunch. What a piece of shit this was. An hour of touchy-feely between these two mopes? I hope the murderer kills them both and goes looking for the producer.

Do you enjoy the show? Or at least find it to be okay? I've noticed that with this recent episode, there's a clear difference of opinion between people who actually enjoy watching the show, or even apologists who are semi-ambivalent toward it, and people like myself who are slogging their way through the remaining episodes because they feel like they need to see it through. People in my group have been mostly complimentary toward the episode, whereas people in the first group think it's, like, the worst episode of the series.

You watch Breaking Bad too, don't you? I assume you enjoy it. It's a hard show not to like. Do you think you could delineate for me what made this episode of The Killing such a poor episode, keeping in mind the episode of Breaking Bad where Walt spends the entire hour trying to kill a fly? Or do you think that Fly was also a poor episode? I'm not trying to disparage you for your opinions about this episode of The Killing. I'm legitimately interested.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I don't know anything about Breaking Bad, but the main problem with this episode of The Killing was that it did nothing to advance its ostensible plot.

[Omniscient]

So we're supposed the believe that not a single cop with any familiarity with this case is going to recognize either that "Adela" is the name of what appears to be a very major Seattle ferry ship or that that keychain's logo was that of what is probably one of the only casinos in the region?

I mean come on. Everyone in Chicago knows what the Horseshoe's logo is, it's on a billboard every 2 miles on all the Interstates. Have you ever heard of a casino that didn't advertise to death? Chicago doesn't have ferries but we have dinner cruises and everyone has heard of all those ship's names, I suspect that the ferries in Seattle would probably be even more well known.

This episode was so annoying. I'm convinced that it's Gwen's dad who killed her and confirming that is probably the only thing keeping me watching this show. Seattle certainly looks like a dreary miserable place and these miserable characters aren't adding to the vibe, you can bet Seattle's board of tourism won't be using scene from this sucker in their campaigns.

[obfusciatrist]

I must say I don't understand watching a show you don't like just to find out how it ends. That answer will be on Wikipedia two minutes after it airs and in a dozen online recaps that will take considerably less than the 2-13 hours of TV time since one decided they didn't like the show.

Anyway, I liked the episode just fine, even if it appears to just be filler.

[newcomer]

You watch Breaking Bad too, don't you? I assume you enjoy it. It's a hard show not to like. Do you think you could delineate for me what made this episode of The Killing such a poor episode, keeping in mind the episode of Breaking Bad where Walt spends the entire hour trying to kill a fly? Or do you think that Fly was also a poor episode? I'm not trying to disparage you for your opinions about this episode of The Killing. I'm legitimately interested. I came to make a reference to the infamous Breaking Bad episode “Fly” which to me is one of the finest filler-episodes of all times, half of the X-Files or Twin Peaks episodes notwithstanding. I mean, I do realize it does not move action forward and it was painful to watch that BB episode, yet the momentum that BB has built made for a much finer and poignant overall experience.

And while The Killing is not in the same league of dramatic thrust it actually brought something innovative about complexities of characters assuming much more than the situation is calling for. What I mean is it shows how a high degree of selfishness is at the centre of what drives much of the individual action and perpetual inability to connect on a human level by seeking to tame unacknowledged anxieties. Some notable selfish characters that pushed action in a certain direction are Gwen, Stan Larsen and now Sarah Linden.

Just rambling a bit while on the boring conf call…

And yeah, I was pained during the episode but did have post-watching pleasure.

[Zeldar]

I wish I had quit this show several episodes ago. As it is, now I feel like a I have to watch the last two episodes just so it wasn't all for naught. But man, this thing really sucks.

I think AMC is pulling a Twin Peaks on us! They will have to promote the shit out of their next new venture before I invest the time in it I have in this one. The only fair thing I can muster to say about the episode is that the weather may have messed with their shooting schedule and they just adlibbed their way through an hour's worth of stream-of-consciousness drivel.

Weak!

[salinqmind]

I guess I'm all alone here, as usual. I thought it was a fine episode, filler or not. Yes, they seemed to have shoe-horned this exploration of the past into the show too late, but I thought the acting was fine, and I felt really bad for the both of them. I wonder what was up with the boy's dad that she wouldn't have even called him. I also wonder, what Indians run the casino, are they a real Indian tribe or a made-up one?

[Chefguy]

Do you enjoy the show? Or at least find it to be okay? I've noticed that with this recent episode, there's a clear difference of opinion between people who actually enjoy watching the show, or even apologists who are semi-ambivalent toward it, and people like myself who are slogging their way through the remaining episodes because they feel like they need to see it through. People in my group have been mostly complimentary toward the episode, whereas people in the first group think it's, like, the worst episode of the series.

You watch Breaking Bad too, don't you? I assume you enjoy it. It's a hard show not to like. Do you think you could delineate for me what made this episode of The Killing such a poor episode, keeping in mind the episode of Breaking Bad where Walt spends the entire hour trying to kill a fly? Or do you think that Fly was also a poor episode? I'm not trying to disparage you for your opinions about this episode of The Killing. I'm legitimately interested.

I generally like the show; I actually prefer series with a moody feel to them. This episode did nothing to further the plot other than a token afterthought at the end, so to me was a waste of air-time. I guess they thought they should show that these two have some emotion, rather than walking around in the rain like zombies most of the time, but that could have been woven in during the other episodes, rather than doing this. I didn't like "The Fly" episode, either, other than it showed pretty graphically Walt's mental breakdown.

[SykoSkotty]

OK, I just read this entire thread for the first time. I've been watching this show since it began and I love it. I love the dreary suspense and I love how every single character is a question mark. What I don't like is the constant misdirection the show gives off. Why I don't like it is because usually you are shown something with no dialog whatsoever.

I understand some peeps just hanging on to see it through, because we're all trying to figure out who the murderer is. This last episode had me saying, "are they going to use an entire episode to look for Sarah's kid?" While they did do that, we did get to find out alot about Sarah and Holder: Sarah's was a ward of the state, Reggie's her case worker, Holder has the gold coin he stole from his nephew and wants to return it, Sarah's last case put a kid in the system, just like she was. These are all revealing facts about the detectives that explain why they make the decisions and assumptions that they do.

Does anyone think the rich guy who hates the current mayor and donated all that money to Rick's campaign is involved? Was she the rich guy Rosie was seeing? I haven't tied it together yet but with his money and connections......I mean, if you saw the previews for next week, you hear Holder say, "Rosie was making deposits at these ATM's."

Flashing back to the first episode : Rosie is running through the woods trying to escape. Are these the woods near the ferry? Someone is chasing her with a flashlight. Are we to assume this is her killer? Or someone who captures her and throws her in the trunk of the car with the intention of taking her somewhere?

For those who think it's the Aunt, why do you think so? What's her motive? Did she find out the Aunt and her Dad were having an affair?

Anyways, I love the show and the actors. I'm excited for the finale. Now I wonder, if there's a next season, do we focus on another murder? With a new set of characters?

[Zeldar]

Anyways, I love the show and the actors. I'm excited for the finale. Now I wonder, if there's a next season, do we focus on another murder? With a new set of characters?

All I can say is that unless they do some real magic in these last two (is it three?) episodes to make the season worth the wait to see what they had in mind, unless they do that, I won't be bothering with another season. I predict it will Rubicon away into the ether.

[AuntiePam]

I liked this episode. I agree that the character development might have been better if it had been spaced out, but it makes sense that it would happen when Linden is in a bad place, vulnerable.

Why does Linden have a social worker?

So Liz is Holder's sister? Are the kids his or hers?

Ridiculousness: More pouring rain, Holder figuring out the pass code, the restricted number for Jack's dad, Linden not considering Jack was with his dad, the school not calling sooner, the kid's mother telling Linden Jack was a bad boy, nobody answering Linden or Holder's calls, neither of them actually doing any police work all day (was it their day off?), Jack leaving the motel without his cell phone.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Who cares about the character development anyway? It's supposed to be a whodunnit, not a chick flick.

It would also be nice if Linden could learn more than one facial expression, and if Holder would give it a rest with the Eminem impression. Both those things are starting to wear.

[Chefguy]

Who cares about the character development anyway? It's supposed to be a whodunnit, not a chick flick.

It would also be nice if Linden could learn more than one facial expression, and if Holder would give it a rest with the Eminem impression. Both those things are starting to wear.

The white-boy ghetto wannabe talk by a supposed adult is annoying to me, also. You did drugs, we get it.

[Hentor the Barbarian]

I came to this thread just to see if other people had the same reaction that I did, and boy, I suppose so.

I've been enjoying the show from the beginning. I agree that some character development would have been nice earlier in the series, but at this point the horse is out of the barn. You have three episodes left and you spend fully one third of them on a boring, pointless, inconsistent, nonsensical piece of garbage like this episode?

At our house, we looked around at one another about 20 minutes in, wondering what the hell was going on. This episode had about as much narrative purpose as a clip show would have. In fact, I would have preferred a clip show.

Yes, of course, in television and movies you can in fact show time passing when it helps to heighten the tension. Wasn't happening here.

You can use time passing to reveal new information about characters. Was happening here, but at this point, we don't care! I'm tired of the "problems with Jack" subplot. I'm tired of the postponed romantic relationship/wedding plans subplot. Okay, Linden is functionally Asperger's Disordered - got it, let's move on.

This show was time passing in the worst way.

It was made perhaps more painful because Linden had just found something very, very interesting (the casino bit), augmented by the apparent interest the casino management had in the girl's disappearance, and heightened by the somewhat clever bit about being able to access the ATM camera footage. But the shows writers basically said, "Pretty cool stuff, huh? You're going to have to wait an hour, and then another week to find more while we force some less-than-timely character development down your throat."

As the kids say: epic fail.

[salinqmind]

I believe from the beginning the makers of this thing said it wasn't about the murder so much as the effects, the repercussions, of the murder on the family and the community. We viewers never met Rosie, we have no empathy with her. I'm watching mostly out of idle curiosity to see what sordid thing she was involved with to get her murdered, and who did it and why. (Similar to the last season of Lost, I didn't have a clear idea of what was going on, but I still enjoyed watching, and wanted to see how it ended.)

[Zeldar]

Rather than going off on a wild hair and starting another thread on the issue, I'm wondering how a piece-of-shit series like this can survive when they kill off a great show like Terriers. I know, different networks, different (I will assume) demographics, and that sort of thing. But there's no justice!

Other dead ones that I would gladly watch in this time slot in preference to The Killing:

Human Target
Lie To Me
Chicago Code
Detroit 1-8-7

Rubicon

[Hentor the Barbarian]

I believe from the beginning the makers of this thing said it wasn't about the murder so much as the effects, the repercussions, of the murder on the family and the community.That's fine, and that's a great thing to develop a show around.

This episode didn't have anything to do with that, though. It had to do with her son being missing for a day and her efforts to find him, which ends up with him just standing in the hall outside their hotel room at the end of the day.

You might say that it had a little to do with the influence of Linden's decision to stay to investigate the murder on her relationship with her son, but a) it was at best indirectly related to the problems they are having, and b) that ground has been really well-trod prior to this episode.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

I've been pretty forgiving of the show's flaws; up until now, that is.

AMC's streak has ended.


mmm

[DigitalC]

The only redeeming part of this episode was the total lack of sad family.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

The only redeeming part of this episode was the total lack of sad family political strategy team.


mmm

[Omniscient]

I must say I don't understand watching a show you don't like just to find out how it ends. That answer will be on Wikipedia two minutes after it airs and in a dozen online recaps that will take considerably less than the 2-13 hours of TV time since one decided they didn't like the show.

Anyway, I liked the episode just fine, even if it appears to just be filler.

Couple of reasons. 1) There isn't much else on in the way of new drama at the moment. The big network shows are all on hiatus for the summer and none of the summer series have started up. Other than Game of Thrones on HBO the premium channels are also fairly devoid of content with True Blood, Dexter and most of the other compelling stuff on break. 2) We got sucked in by a decent premise and set up. Bad TV can be redeemed by an excellent payoff at the end and some of us are probably holding out hope that that'll be the case. Some bad TV is worth it in it's own right, I'm sure we've all stuck with crappy shows for thin reasons before, and this one is at least unique even if it's sorta poorly executed.

Time will tell but one of the upsides of these cable original series is that they air on off cycles and tend to only be 8-12 episodes long. That's not a big commitment.

[Corliss]

A good episode ONLY if it had aired around episode 5 or 6. It was a totally inappropriate episode for number 11. We should have a better glimpse by now as to who killed Rosie, but the focus backtracked to character development for the two detectives? I don't get it. And I liked Holder so much better back when he was perceived as a slimeball willing to get teenage girls high. He's a born again Christian? That's fine in real-life, but this is a TV show and it's made his promising skeevy character look really lame.

[A. Gwilliam]

I felt that the Danish original lost its way a bit in the second half. However, it sounds from what people have been saying here that the American version is now diverging from the original.

[HazelNutCoffee]

God. Slowest episode ever. Yeah, Linden is a flawed mother who grew up without a mother figure, and Holden deals with his addiction by turning to Jesus and patty-less burgers. Did they really need an entire episode to establish this? Was very annoyed at the end.

Did Rosie's autopsy say she'd been raped or not?

[Omniscient]

God. Slowest episode ever. Yeah, Linden is a flawed mother who grew up without a mother figure, and Holden deals with his addiction by turning to Jesus and patty-less burgers. Did they really need an entire episode to establish this? Was very annoyed at the end.

I didn't get the impression that he was really a born-again. It just sounded like he was rambling incoherently and conflating a bunch of platitudes into some justification of his vegetarian hypocrisy. All in all it was a bunch of nonsense and he's just regurgitating some of the crap from his 12 step program. If the character were ever to actually articulate a clear thought I might find him less annoying.

Did Rosie's autopsy say she'd been raped or not?

I know in the episode when they discovered her body they stated that the water had spoiled any possibility of collecting DNA. I'm not sure if they ruled out rape or if they just ruled out running a rape kit. The fact that it hasn't been mentioned explicitly seems to indicate that it's probably not part of the equation.

[Erdosain]

I just watched this episode on my TiVo and at least 15 minutes were blacked out. I guess it was my local cable's fault since no one else mentioned it. Unsurprisingly, it doesn't seem like I missed too much.

I suppose it's not unusual for a show to take a break right before the two-part finale, but this show just hasn't earned it. Its glacial pace means that this week's obvious dead-end was infuriating, instead of setting up an intense end of the show.

The most damning part of this episode was that I thought, "Gee, I wish I was watching a show about the murder of Daniel McClintock instead of Rosie Larsen."

[Erdosain]

I know in the episode when they discovered her body they stated that the water had spoiled any possibility of collecting DNA. I'm not sure if they ruled out rape or if they just ruled out running a rape kit. The fact that it hasn't been mentioned explicitly seems to indicate that it's probably not part of the equation.

They probably left it ambiguous so the viewers wouldn't be able to rule out any female suspects.

[pakalolo]

... if Holder would give it a rest with the Eminem impression.

I always get the impression he's channeling Cletus Spuckler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cletus_Spuckler), the 'yokel' from the Simpsons.

... when they kill off a great show like Terriers.

I am still bitter about this, I adored that show.

[Morbo]

Probably my last episode. Allow me to be Linden during that confrontation with the Casino owner:

"Now get the hell off my property."
"OK. But first, I need to call the media and tell them you're interfering with the Police investigation into the murdered teenaged girl."

[Oslo Ostragoth]

The most damning part of this episode was that I thought, "Gee, I wish I was watching a show about the murder of Daniel McClintock instead of Rosie Larsen."

Ummm, what? Who?

[Erdosain]

Ummm, what? Who?

That was the name of the dead boy they found who Linden thought was Jack. I couldn't help feeling that a pair of more likable and competent detectives would be assigned to that case.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Probably my last episode. Allow me to be Linden during that confrontation with the Casino owner:

"Now get the hell off my property."
"OK. But first, I need to call the media and tell them you're interfering with the Police investigation into the murdered teenaged girl."
Yeah, she wasn't afraid to use that tactic with what's-his-face, Mr Goody-two-shoes.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

This episode was mostly annoying (Linden and Holder get more obnoxious every episode - the self-righteous, sanctimonious sermonizing during every interrogation - they're liek two nacy Graces), but the show might have redeemed itself a little at the end by going in a direction I didn't think it had the guts to go in. If it turns out to be another red herring, I'll be pissed.

The whole subplot with Linden's ex was a total waste of time. It has nothing to do with the main story, and just makes Linden look even douchier.

[Zeldar]

Although the episode was at the other end of the spectrum from last week's, I'm left with the distinct impression that they demonstrated that they could have been moving this story along much earlier (episode 2?) if they had chosen to. But, as it is, we're back to suspecting everybody in the cast.

I just hope the killer is Jack! Or his father!