Another well water question re submersible pumps

[jtgain]

I was looking at the directions because I'm installing one this weekend. The pump is not supposed to sit on the bottom of the well, but hangs 10 feet above. I know to use a safety rope to lower it.

My question: What holds the pump off the bottom of the well when all is done?

[Dano83860]

You hang the pump by the pipe. You hang the pipe by a fitting at the top of the well.

Use the pipe to lower the pump into the well.

Are you sure you are ready for this?

[jtgain]

You hang the pump by the pipe. You hang the pipe by a fitting at the top of the well.

Use the pipe to lower the pump into the well.

Are you sure you are ready for this?

Not really. I've got the diagram down, but I just can't figure out what holds it up. You say the fitting at the top of the well? The well cap that fits over the hole with a hole in it for the pipe?

[Dano83860]

Who ever drilled your well should have put in six or eight inch metal surface casing to protect your well from surface water contamination. Down three or four feet from the top of that casing there should be a fitting on the side of the casing to hang your pipe on.

[NinetyWt]

And then your pump hangs off of that. Isn't is supposed to also have a cylindrical screen around it on the lower end?

[carnivorousplant]

I thought you hung the pump on a nylon rope.
That was an install using black plastic pipe.

[Napier]

You can put rope on the pump to catch it if the pipe breaks and handle it more easily, but the pipe is still supporting its weight.

According to some people, there are bumpers or spacers on the pipe that keep it centered in the casing. According to the all people I keep finding to work on MY well, however, the poor thing just hangs down there and thrashes around on the end of 200' of polyethylene everytime it starts and stops.

"The pump" generally means a cylindrical assembly comprising a pump, a motor, bearings, fittings, an electrical termination, a cylindrical screen around the lower end, a connection point for the rope, and various other features.

[carnivorousplant]

What kind of fittings are on the poly?
It seems like the hose clamps I've seen on shallow well pumps wouldn't take the vibration and stress of movement.

[jtgain]

What kind of fittings are on the poly?
It seems like the hose clamps I've seen on shallow well pumps wouldn't take the vibration and stress of movement.

This is exactly why I started the thread.

And, I just looked. My well has no such fitting to hang pipe from. Just a metal cylinder down as far as I can see. I used a jet pump previously.

[MC$E]

It's called a Pitless Adapter. Here are some more details:

http://www.merrillmfg.com/about/installation/products/02-PitlessUnits/PitlessAdapter.htm

[Dano83860]

It's called a Pitless Adapter. Here are some more details:

http://www.merrillmfg.com/about/installation/products/02-PitlessUnits/PitlessAdapter.htm

That's it. I didn't know what it was called.

jtgain

How deep is your well?

[jtgain]

40 feet

[NinetyWt]

According to some people, there are bumpers or spacers on the pipe that keep it centered in the casing. According to the all people I keep finding to work on MY well, however, the poor thing just hangs down there and thrashes around on the end of 200' of polyethylene everytime it starts and stops.

Send them here (http://www.bwmcompany.com/spacer1.htm)?

[jtgain]

Success! I think. Pump is in the hole. I put a well cap on and then an elbow. The elbow rests atop the well cap and holds the whole thing up. I don't know if that is kosher, but it is working right now. I guess if tomorrow, the pump is at the bottom of the well I will know it didn't work. ;)

The only concern (other than a drip drip leak where it joins the old pipe, too dark, fix tomorrow) is when the pump shuts off there is a noticeable torque on the pipe above the ground. It only lasts for a split second, but it seems like this would crack the pipe eventually.

But other than that, great pressure. Best shower I've ever had in this house. Thanks for all of the help..

[jtgain]

BTW...if you did drop a submersible pump down the well, is there any way to get it out? Or are you just fucked six different ways? I can't imagine how you would go about retrieving it.

[johnpost]

you need to have the well properly covered at the top to prevent insects and surface water and rain. you need the pitless adapter to be below the frost line.

if you do things incorrectly you risk your health with contaminated water and long term damage to the quality of your well and aquifer. there can also be legal consequences of doing improperly because of those serious consequences.

[carnivorousplant]

BTW...if you did drop a submersible pump down the well, is there any way to get it out? Or are you just fucked six different ways? I can't imagine how you would go about retrieving it.

I bet that's where that nylon rope I saw comes into play.

[jtgain]

you need to have the well properly covered at the top to prevent insects and surface water and rain. you need the pitless adapter to be below the frost line.

if you do things incorrectly you risk your health with contaminated water and long term damage to the quality of your well and aquifer. there can also be legal consequences of doing improperly because of those serious consequences.

Agreed. However, my grandfather installed this well back in the 60s. There is a 5' X 5' X 4' deep hole in the ground. This is covered with reinforced plywood. At the bottom of this is the 6" well. There was never a cover on the well. Just a jet pump with the dual pipes going into an elbow and down into the well. I would assume that everything is below the frost line and now with my new well cap, it is protected from insects and surface water. I test it twice a year anyways, and I drink the tap every day. Never had a problem.

I bet that's where that nylon rope I saw comes into play.

You would think so. I thought so as well until it chaffed and broke as I was lowering the pipe in the well. No nylon safety for me. The electric cord seems to act as a safety, though..

Like I said, I know enough to be dangerous and to fuck it all up royally, but at least it works right now.. ;)

[carnivorousplant]

No nylon safety for me.

I've seen chain, too. :)

[johnpost]

you need to have the well properly covered at the top to prevent insects and surface water and rain. you need the pitless adapter to be below the frost line.

if you do things incorrectly you risk your health with contaminated water and long term damage to the quality of your well and aquifer. there can also be legal consequences of doing improperly because of those serious consequences.

Agreed. However, my grandfather installed this well back in the 60s. There is a 5' X 5' X 4' deep hole in the ground. This is covered with reinforced plywood. At the bottom of this is the 6" well. There was never a cover on the well. Just a jet pump with the dual pipes going into an elbow and down into the well. I would assume that everything is below the frost line and now with my new well cap, it is protected from insects and surface water. I test it twice a year anyways, and I drink the tap every day. Never had a problem.



you have a pit that had a jet pump, that was sealed from contamination.

a submersible pump has to have the casing rise a number of feet above ground level and have a cap specific to that. water is extracted through the pitless adapter which is below ground and sealed.

each pump type has specific methods and regulations to keep it safe.

[jtgain]

you have a pit that had a jet pump, that was sealed from contamination.

a submersible pump has to have the casing rise a number of feet above ground level and have a cap specific to that. water is extracted through the pitless adapter which is below ground and sealed.

each pump type has specific methods and regulations to keep it safe.

The installation manual said that I could either use the pitless adapter or the well seal. I'm not trying to argue, especially since I'm the one asking for help, but it clearly says in the manual for my pump that you can choose the pitless adapter setup, or go with the well seal and elbow.

I wouldn't even know how to begin to put a pitless adapter in..

[johnpost]

The installation manual said that I could either use the pitless adapter or the well seal. I'm not trying to argue, especially since I'm the one asking for help, but it clearly says in the manual for my pump that you can choose the pitless adapter setup, or go with the well seal and elbow.

I wouldn't even know how to begin to put a pitless adapter in..

from your description i can't tell if you've done things according to instructions and regulations or not. your mention of being in a pit was late in the thread.

the pitless adapter lets you bring water out of the well without being in a pit. my point was that systems seals the well from contamination.

you may have the materials to do this properly in a pit. you may have followed instructions and regulations.

if you see the outlet pipe move then that won't stay sealed good for long.

[carnivorousplant]

the pitless adapter lets you bring water out of the well without being in a pit.

I've a shallow well with an above ground pump. I've seen submerged pumps, but never seen an install. Please fight my ignorance. What is pit?

[johnpost]

I've a shallow well with an above ground pump. I've seen submerged pumps, but never seen an install. Please fight my ignorance. What is pit?

a pit is a hole in the ground.

in the past when windmills (windpumps) were used with a reciprocating pump (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciprocating_pump) they might have been placed in a well pit, so there would be a pit 8 feet deep maybe which contained the pump.

this put the pump below the frost level so the water in it didn't freeze. this was necessary in freezing winter climates. if the pump was outdoors it was in a pit.

when jet pumps replaced these reciprocating pumps, the jet pump and pressure tank would be placed in the pit.

[Crafter_Man]

Since you have disturbed the well, I would pour a gallon of bleach in it. That's what I did when I replaced our submersible pump last year.

[johnpost]

pouring bleach into your well casing (of a submersible pump) is not a good method to disinfect your well. you don't know the concentration of chlorine produced which is important to have an effective treatment and having it too strong can also risk damage to your pump.

to disinfect your well

put any water filtration and softener units to bypass (water not flowing through them). attach a garden hose to a hose bib (faucet) as close to the pump system as you can.

calculate the volume of water standing (water table depth minus the well depth) in the well casing (e.g. 8" casing is 2.5 gallons per foot of depth). using uncontaminated water make a bleach solution (in a clean plastic garbage can) equal to or greater than the volume of standing water in the well. you want a solution of 100 to 300 ppm (parts per million) of chlorine which is made by adding 3/4 to 2 quarts of bleach (5% store bought) to 100 gallons of water. the 5% store bought bleach can damage clothes and eyeballs so protect them.

drain your pressure tank. drain your water heater also if you want to disinfect your house plumbing (after you have pumped contaminated water into your house).

pour or siphon the bleach solution into the top of the well casing. turn on the hose, turn on the pump, when you smell chlorine in the water stream away from the well casing then rinse the sides of the well casing recirculating this bleach water. do that for a while.

if you want to disinfect you house plumbing then run hot and cold faucets until you smell bleach coming from each of them.

let the system sit for 24 hours.

discharge the chlorine solution with an outdoor hose spreading the spray around to not kill vegetation. don't drain it into your septic system, it is bad for that.

in the USA university extension programs and state natural resources agencies will have information on care of wells and septic systems.

[jtgain]

I've studied this for a week now and just realized that a "pitless" adapter was for when you do not have a pit. Yeah, I know. It's been a long week. :)

So far so good. Water pressure could take the paint off of a '53 Ford. Awesome. I will get a water testing kit later today and check for any abnormalities. Or just let the dog drink it and see if he vomits ;)

[jtgain]

when jet pumps replaced these reciprocating pumps, the jet pump and pressure tank would be placed in the pit.


But as I think about it, wouldn't a jet pump HAVE to be in a pit (assuming a cold winter climate)? If not, wouldn't the water freeze solid in it on cold days damaging the pump?

Remember, I said I know enough to be dangerous. I'm just counting the days until a pro will have to come out here and fix my amateur screw up. ;)

[johnpost]

I've studied this for a week now and just realized that a "pitless" adapter was for when you do not have a pit. Yeah, I know. It's been a long week. :)

So far so good. Water pressure could take the paint off of a '53 Ford. Awesome. I will get a water testing kit later today and check for any abnormalities. Or just let the dog drink it and see if he vomits ;)

states will have water testing either through a state agency or university program to do a bacterial test for maybe $25 or so. tests for toxic metals or toxic chemicals might be about the same cost.

[jtgain]

states will have water testing either through a state agency or university program to do a bacterial test for maybe $25 or so. tests for toxic metals or toxic chemicals might be about the same cost.

I've always used the one from Lowes. It's about $20 and it tests for bacteria, Ph, hardness, iron level, and a couple of other things. Probably wouldn't hurt to have it professionally tested just to make sure.

[johnpost]

when jet pumps replaced these reciprocating pumps, the jet pump and pressure tank would be placed in the pit.

But as I think about it, wouldn't a jet pump HAVE to be in a pit (assuming a cold winter climate)? If not, wouldn't the water freeze solid in it on cold days damaging the pump?

Remember, I said I know enough to be dangerous. I'm just counting the days until a pro will have to come out here and fix my amateur screw up. ;)

if the jet pump is outdoors in a freezing climate it needs to be in a pit below the frost depth.

[carnivorousplant]

if the jet pump is outdoors in a freezing climate it needs to be in a pit below the frost depth.

I have a pumphouse in zone 7. Hence my ignorance of pits. :)