The Devil....

[Palidors]

What is the significance of the DEVIl holding a trident wherever he is pictured?

[DrFidelius]

Its not a trident, its a pitchfork. Very useful for poking souls bobbing around in a lake of burning sulphur.

[Palidors]

Was I mistaken in Posting in General questions for intelligent people or General Questions for bumbling numskulls, CMon

[DrFidelius]

Nu, you have a different answer then maybe?

[Gaudere]

Actually, it usually is shown as a trident, probably ripped off from Neptune. The Christians liked to make aspects of their devils similar to pagan Gods. Palidors, you're hardly going to get much response if you insist on being insulting, particularly to respected posters like Dr. F.

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"Eppur, si muove!" - Galileo Galilei

Someone told me this once, and I am not claiming this is the truth - just passing it on. They told me that in ancient times, whenever there was a peasant uprising, the peasants would use whatever available farm implements they had as weapons. Mainly, pitchforks. The wealthy landowners caught on to this and began depicting the devil with a pitchfork in order to discourage the peasants. They guy that told me this is an utter moron, so I tend not to believe it, but it does make for an interesting story.

[WallyM7]

Palidor, DrFidelius is far from a bumbling numskull.

Be nice.


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If you're an optimist, you haven't been paying attention.

[Pickman's Model]

The pitchfork/trident is supposed to represent torture, since souls in hell are supposed to be undergoing torment. The trident is indeed probably a borrowing from Neptune, but if you go with the pitchfork angle, then you get into Pan, who was a sylvan/agrarian deity; Pan is also where the image of Satan gets the cloven hooves and horns. (Cf. also the goat god of Northern European fertility cults, later Wiccan.)

[DrFidelius]

Does anyone have a cite for "devil with pitchfork" that pre-dates Dante? IIRC, he first used the image.

Tridents are neater to draw, that would be why the iconography has shifted.

[Gaudere]

Pickman's, Pan was indeed a sylvan diety and that's where we get the model for the devil, but I have never heard of him connected with farming or crops. That was Demeter's bit.

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"Eppur, si muove!" - Galileo Galilei

[Bluepony]

Mike King---

Hell, go for it. What's the next fuckin' question on this enlightened list, the chicken and the egg?


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"...send lawyers, guns, and money..."

Warren Zevon

[AuraSeer]

In many pagan traditions, the Horned One (also called the Green Man) is seen as the personification of the land or the seasons. He dies at the end of the year, when winter approaches, and is reborn in the spring when life returns to the land.

So he's not a farmer per se, but farmers would consider him very important. And no, he doesn't carry a pitchfork; I think that bit of the devil's costume was taken from Neptune.

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Of course I don't fit in; I'm part of a better puzzle.

[kellibelli]

CHICKEN & THE EGG!!!

rotflmao!!

What? he didnt ask that yet?

Palimino...dont diss the doc.

[Alphagene]

Cecil also makes the Devil-Neptune connection regarding the Trident.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/990604.html

Speaking of Trident, who wants gum?

[WallyM7]

I do! I do!

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If you're an optimist, you haven't been paying attention.

[WallyM7]

In reference to the chicken-egg conundrum, the rooster had to come first.

The hen, of course, does not have orgasms so it follows that.....


Never mind.

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If you're an optimist, you haven't been paying attention.

[DrFidelius]

Oh, and thank you all for the support, but it takes more than an insignificant nonentity to get my Irish up.

[Holly]

Hades, the Greek god of the underworld (duh) had a bident- just like a trident, but with two points (again, duh). The trident is a little more impressive and scary than the bident, so perhaps this is why our modern-day devil carries one.

[Czarcasm]

Pollyboy, I've read your questions. You're right, the posters in the General Questions Section are not up to your elevated level.
Why don't you come on over to the BBQ Pit, where there are people who will appreciate your intelligence and wit, and give the the responses you so rightfully deserve.

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They call me MISTER Wizard!

[tracer]

I always thought the "Chicken or the Egg" conundrum was really a question of Creationism vs. Evolution.

[AuraSeer]

The male deity of many pagan religions is usually referred to as the Horned God. (Most depictions I have seen show him as having the antlers of a deer, though not hooves.) He may be the agrarian deity to whom Pickman is referring.

Pan, the Greek demigod, is not usually associated with crops. He was a sylvan being, i.e. associated with the forest (not the fields). The myths tend to imply that he was too busy chasing nymphs to bother much with plants.

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Of course I don't fit in; I'm part of a better puzzle.

[Gaudere]

Correct me if I am wrong, Auraseer, but I didn't think the Horned God was a agrarian deity, either. Certainly not to the point that he would be depicted with a pitchfork. Usually fertility and crops were associated with female Gods. The only Horned God I know is the leader of the Wild Hunt.

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"Eppur, si muove!" - Galileo Galilei

What is the significance of the DEVIl holding a trident wherever he is pictured?

Actually, Pally, I think the significance is that the Underwood Ham people can hit you up for a royalty each time you use their corporate logo . . .

Was I mistaken in Posting in General questions for intelligent people or General Questions for bumbling numskulls, CMon

All in favor of transfering all Palidors threads to the Bumbling Numbskulls forum?

[vanillanice]

You guys are just tempting arg arent you? ;)

[WallyM7]

Not a very good question, though.

Since we know that Lamarck was wrong about acquired characteristics, there had to be a time when a bird laid an egg that was enough unlike itself to start a chain of events that led to the chicken.

By this reasoning, the egg came first. The chicken came later.

Colonel Sanders came later still.

Sorry. I had no right to inflict that upon the Gentle Posters.


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If you're an optimist, you haven't been paying attention.

[JillGat]

Glad somebody finally cited Cecil's column. Also the Oct. 99 Smithsonian has a pretty comprehensive article about Satan and the depiction of the devil through the ages.
Jill

[DrFidelius]

Jill-

I haven't received the October issue yet. It should be interesting.

Jumping tracks here, what's up with durians? I have gone for at least five years since I last heard mention of the fruit (and that in conjunction with orang-utan dietary needs) and all of a sudden both _Smithsonian_ and_Natural History_ have an article on it in the same month! Are the American Durian Council planning a sales push? Enquiring minds want to know. And if durians suddenly become the next trendy food, remember that I spotted the trend first...


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Dr. Fidelius, Charlatan
Associate Curator Anomalous Paleontology, Miskatonic University
Homo vult decipi; decipiatur