Immigrants who enter the country illegally and all the crimes they commit.

[ITR champion]

So we all know, needless to say, that immigrants who entered America illegally are an extremely violent bunch, much more likely to commit crimes then good, proper, native-born Americans. But what if what we know is actually incorrect? What if it's actually the case that crimes rate among them is really much lower than the national average? What if it were the case (http://reason.com/archives/2009/07/06/the-el-paso-miracle)that:
"If you want to find a safe city, first determine the size of the immigrant population," says Jack Levin, a criminologist at Northeastern University in Massachusetts. "If the immigrant community represents a large proportion of the population, you're likely in one of the country's safer cities. San Diego, Laredo, El Paso—these cities are teeming with immigrants, and they're some of the safest places in the country."
...
As the national immigration debate heated up in 2007, dozens of academics who specialize in the issue sent a letter (pdf) to then President George W. Bush and congressional leaders with the following point:

Numerous studies by independent researchers and government commissions over the past 100 years repeatedly and consistently have found that, in fact, immigrants are less likely to commit crimes or to be behind bars than are the native-born. This is true for the nation as a whole, as well as for cities with large immigrant populations such as Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, and Miami, and cities along the U.S.-Mexico border such as San Diego and El Paso.
I'd say that unless all of this research is a fraud, this takes the wind out of the sails of one of the most common anti-immigrant talking points.

[Shodan]

When your cite says "immigrants", do they mean "illegal immigrants" or legal ones?

Regards,
Shodan

[pinguin]

Immigrants who enter the country illegally and all the crimes they commit

Actually, this was the complain of the Native Americans when the Europeans came...

In any case, you should also consider how many crimes are commited AGAINST so called "illegals".

[emacknight]

So we all know, needless to say, that immigrants who entered America illegally are an extremely violent bunch, much more likely to commit crimes then good, proper, native-born Americans. But what if what we know is actually incorrect?

Well, first we have to put how fingers in our hears then dig in our heals.

Next we have to attack the study, the source of it's funding, the organization behind it.

Then we have to come up with catchy rhetoric that sounds great but means nothing.

Lastly, we need a way to vilify the people that would dare question the reality we all know to be true.

Obviously this study is inaccurate, and was funded by Mexicans that want to enter the country illegally and ruin our way of life. And obviously you hate America and want to see its bordered overrun with criminals. Why do you hate America?

I heard that areas with with high illegal immigration have lots of bad stuff happen, a buddy of mine told me that once.

ETA It also helps if you bring up how evil Europeans where, I forgot that one.

[Giles]

Of course, there's a question of what is the cause and what is the effect. It may be that immigrants (both legal and illegal) prefer to go to cities with lower crime rates. What is needed is a study connecting the immigration status of individuals with their likelihood of committing crimes.

[Profound Gibberish]

Neither facts, data nor logic have any place in the discussion of immigration reform.

Please restrict your discussion to hatred and/or revulsion of the "other."

Thank you. ;-)

[emacknight]

To put this into a more practical application: Canada defines drunk driving differently than the US, I believe in Canad it's considered a felony. As a result, many Americans are turned away at the border because of a past DUI.

Now, consider 10 Canadian cities, those with a higher population of Americans would have a lower rate of DUIs because the immigration policy filtered those more likely to offend.

Going one step further. Americans in Canada illegally will be more likely to drive carefully knowing that a DUI conviction would get them discovered. And those there legally know it would get them deported.

The immigration system is set up to encourage immigrants to behave.

[Simplicio]

Of course, there's a question of what is the cause and what is the effect. It may be that immigrants (both legal and illegal) prefer to go to cities with lower crime rates. What is needed is a study connecting the immigration status of individuals with their likelihood of committing crimes.

Maybe, though it would be kinda weird that so many cities with low crime rates just happen to abut the Mexican border if immigration wasn't involved.

But the article does breifly address the crime-rate of immigrants apart from where they live

According to the study, 3.5 percent of American-born men aged 18 to 39 were incarcerated in jails or prisons in 2000, compared to 0.7 percent of foreign-born men - five times higher.

So if immigrants don't have lower crime-rates, they must be much much better at getting away with it.

Its sort of bizarre. While the crazed tales of lawless western towns taken over by dirty immigrants were obviously crazy talk by xenophobes, I would've thought the crime rate would be somewhat higher simply because immigrants tend to be poorer and younger then the general population, and poverty and youth are generally positively correlated with criminal behavior.

[Profound Gibberish]

Illegal immigration is all about money. US employers use illigal immigrants becasue they are cheaper and can pass the savings on to the consumer (i.e the americans that don't like illegals). If all chicken processing staff were US citizens, the cost of chicken would double or more due to the increased labor costs. Same with restaurant prices. Same with landscaping and construction. These are out and out crappy jobs that Americans would not do without a big increase in pay and benefits. And all US citizens would end up paying for it through the increased cost of labor.

The US government, at the behest of business, have kept this gray-area, look-the-other-way policy going for decades because it provides an economic advantage to US business. Illegal immigration will be controlled once US businesses no longer enjoy the economic advantage of employing illegals.

So when Americans are ready to pay more for the things that illegals provide, US citizens will be hired in their place and paid a decent wage. Illegal immigration will then dry up--much like it is doing now with the recession.

This is an issue driven soley by business interests--not by the government. Americans also really like cheap goods and happily look the other way when they are provided by illegals. So in reality, it is the American People that drive the demand for illegals in their desire for cheap goods.

[silenus]

Yes, but what does that have to do with criminal immigrants and the rise in crime wherever people that are different than me settle in and lower property values, sell drugs and lead my virginal daughter into a life of prostitution and white slavery? Huh??

[Giles]

Yes, but what does that have to do with criminal immigrants and the rise in crime wherever people that are different than me settle in and lower property values, sell drugs and lead my virginal daughter into a life of prostitution and white slavery? Huh??
Are you sure that your daughter doesn't look forward to a life of white slavery?

[silenus]

Well, it wouldn't be much of a step up. :D

[Shodan]

But the article does breifly address the crime-rate of immigrants apart from where they live

According to the study, 3.5 percent of American-born men aged 18 to 39 were incarcerated in jails or prisons in 2000, compared to 0.7 percent of foreign-born men - five times higher.
So if immigrants don't have lower crime-rates, they must be much much better at getting away with it.Or perhaps being deported instead of imprisoned. Or, if they are here illegally, getting caught and deported before they commit serious crimes.

Obviously one can slice the figures any number of ways. It would be interesting to see average numbers of crimes committed by illegal immigrants per year they were in the country.

But I still think it would be helpful to talk consistently about illegal immigrants only, if that is the point of the thread, and not mix legal residents with illegal ones. I am not aware of much widespread resistance to allowing some Indian engineer to immigrate to California because they are afraid he is going to rob liquor stores.

Regards,
Shodan

[emacknight]

Illegal immigration is all about money. US employers use illigal immigrants becasue they are cheaper and can pass the savings on to the consumer (i.e the americans that don't like illegals). If all chicken processing staff were US citizens, the cost of chicken would double or more due to the increased labor costs. Same with restaurant prices. Same with landscaping and construction.

You wouldn't happen to have any data that actually backs that up would you?

[Bryan Ekers]

Are criminals by and large stupid with poor impulse-control? Doesn't seem to correlate with someone who'd go to the effort of sneaking across a border, looking for work.

[Qin Shi Huangdi]

Actually, this was the complain of the Native Americans when the Europeans came...

In any case, you should also consider how many crimes are commited AGAINST so called "illegals".

By whom? I suppose you mean the exploiters of the illegal immigrants, not people who defend the borders like the Minutemen. And why is it "so-called"? They crossed the border illegally, so they are illegal until they get amnesty or what not, that's simply a fact like 2+2=4.

In addition it should be noted that the reason why Mexico has higher crime rates includes the corruption of the police and the leniency with which criminals are treated.

[Voyager]

Yes, but what does that have to do with criminal immigrants and the rise in crime wherever people that are different than me settle in and lower property values, sell drugs and lead my virginal daughter into a life of prostitution and white slavery? Huh??

Illegal immigrants are obviously committing crimes for less money than native-born criminals, and driving them out of business. Something must be done!

[scamartistry]

FYI ,mr shodan
your name is already shown at the top of every post you write

so adding this:

"Regards,
Shodan"

is a bit unnecessary, or is it an OCD thing?

[Voyager]

Well, first we have to put how fingers in our hears then dig in our heals.


Nice list, but you forgot we have to make up atrocities committed by illegals (like chopping off heads).

Did you know that 90% of illegal immigrants commit crimes. Senator Kyl said so. ;)

[Chen019]

So we all know, needless to say, that immigrants who entered America illegally are an extremely violent bunch, much more likely to commit crimes then good, proper, native-born Americans. But what if what we know is actually incorrect? What if it's actually the case that crimes rate among them is really much lower than the national average? What if it were the case (http://reason.com/archives/2009/07/06/the-el-paso-miracle)that:

I'd say that unless all of this research is a fraud, this takes the wind out of the sails of one of the most common anti-immigrant talking points.

It doesn't. (http://www.alternativeright.com/main/the-magazine/model-minority/) Some problems with these arguments:

1. They tend to exclude federal prison data.

2. They ignore generational differences. The first generation may be relatively law abiding, but then US born Hispanics are about two and a half times more likely to commit crime than than US born whites.

3. A large number of criminal offenders get deported (http://cis.org/ImmigrantCrime). From 1998 to 2007, 816,000 criminal aliens were removed from the United States because of a criminal charge or conviction. These figures do not include those removed for the lesser offense of living or working in the country illegally. The removal and deportation of large numbers of criminal aliens may also reduce immigrant incarceration rates because many will not return and re-offend, as is the case with many native-born criminals.

[Rodgers01]

I'm glad to learn that illegal immigrants commit less crime (if that's what the study shows - who knows), if only because committing less crime is a good thing.

But it doesn't change my opposition to illegal immigration, and I don't see why it would. I don't care if it's a million Catholic nuns coming in illegally every year; I'm against a million anythings entering illegally.