Does anyone want to read my vampire novel as I write it?

[OpalCat]

I am looking for intelligent people to help give me feedback as I write my first novel.

Here is my teaser:
Amy Beckett works as a dancer at a gentleman's club. She never expected that her life would be turned upside down--that she would live the rest of her life as a vampire, in an emotional tangle with the two men who love her the most, while she tries to track down the man responsible for changing her life.

I'm at 18,600 words so far, which is about 41 single-spaced pages in Word.

Is anyone interested in reading it and letting me know how I'm doing? I want honest criticism--what's working, what isn't, what's good, what's boring, what's believable, what's not... etc.

I'm nearing the end of chapter 2 right now and so far it's establishing what her normal life is like, though she has met the vampire who will turn her (she doesn't know he isn't human) and some events have been set in motion for the plot. The story is going to start moving forward more in chapter 3.

[OpalCat]

PS I may be able to provide it in .mobi format for ebook readers like the Kindle.

[PapSett]

I would love to read it! I actually have been doing this for years, writing and letting friends read along, chapter by chapter, hoping for feedback. Lately, I have been getting nothing-zip, nada, zilch, and have been feeling very uninspired. Maybe by reading & critiquing yours, I will find my muse...

[Edward The Head]

Give it to me woman, especially if you can get it to me so I can read on my Kindle.

[OpalCat]

OK PM me with preferred email addresses.

[Superdude]

I'm game! My email address is in my profile.

[OpalCat]

OK I sent out the first three chapters in both .doc and .mobi format. I would like it best if we could discuss the story here in the thread, because that way you could see what the others are saying and agree/disagree, etc, and we could have more of a conversation about it.

[Superdude]

Started it this morning, but not very far into it. I like what I've read so far, though.

[Omi no Kami]

Thanks for sending it to us, it looks you've been putting a lot of work into it. :)

I have two main pieces of constructive criticism, from what I've read, and I think both observations will go away as you continue writing and get more dialed in to the project.

Number one, the pacing feels a little mechanical. Instead of being drawn into the plot, in a lot of places it reads like the characters are walking through a checklist: "I danced, and this is what it looked like. Then I went home. I ate dinner and talked with my boyfriend." I'm obviously over-exaggerating to illustrate what I mean, but in general I got the feeling that minimal details were lashed around each scene in order to get from one plot point to the next.

My other observation is that, at least so far, most of your characters sound very similar. If I were to read any of their lines out of context I would have absolutely no idea who was speaking, and they can inadvertently come off as robotic when I fail to read the character and their motivations through their dialog.

Like I said, though, I think both are going to vanish as you keep writing and get more used to writing for these characters. :)

[OpalCat]

Thanks, I kind of have those same ideas myself, and I figured I'd go back and do some minor rewriting after I've developed the characters a bit more. Also the first two chapters are very different from how the rest of the book will go, so I'm not too worried about the "mechanical" problem. The first two chapters are just for setting up what her life is like normally, so we can see what changes.

Minor nitpick, but it's important to the plot: it's her husband, not her boyfriend.

[OpalCat]

I sent out chapter 4 last night, along with a slightly edited version of 1-3 for those who haven't started it yet.

[Rilchiam]

Hi, Opal! Email's in my profile; I'd love to read this.

[OpalCat]

OK Everyone who has asked for it should have the first four chapters. Please give me some feedback here. If you want it in .mobi format instead of the pdf I sent let me know. The pdf is better formatted.

[PapSett]

I am going to read it later this afternoon, been really busy! Will let you know what I think then.

[ministryman]

Forgot I was reading a piece of the book, and got mad when Chapter 4 was over.

I, too, think that the pacing is a little mechanical, but without seeing the rest of the work, will reserve final judgment. Some books need to have the pacing, as it provides a sense of uneasiness at a subconscious level.

I do like your details about the club and the dancers. For those who have not been to one before, the description of the actions are spot on. One would think that the writer had spent some time in a few......:)

[PapSett]

I trid 3 times yesterday to open or download the Word file and it would NOT do either, it froze up every time. I'll try again today, wish me lucjk!

[OpalCat]

Did you try the .pdf of chapters 1-4?

[cain7]

There are two main types of Vampire stories: those that involve shock and terror and gore and those that focus more on the isolation and psychological effects of living with the transformation. I suspect that this is the latter but would prefer confirmation before going too deep into structural observations.

I agree with what others have said about "fleshing out" the family members and was pleased to see some useful feedback you'd gotten in the subsequent thread. In additions to behavioral additions you might want to include a bit more chatter from the Amy character regarding her feelings toward Kara.

Dale seems unrealistically passive.

Overall, I liked what I read. Amy seems likable in her positivity and attention to detail but I think there are some issues that will arise with the likability/believability of the character without some minor adjustments.

If I were in Development I'd bite on this one. It seems to be coming from a rare, if not unique, viewpoint.

[OpalCat]

I think you're right about Dale. He's going to step up though, now that he has to be the primary caregiver for Kara and so on, so I should be able to flesh him out more now. He hasn't really had much to do so far. I was thinking of maybe talking more about the street fair than I did, and showing them more dynamically as a family. Or maybe include Dale more in the zoo scene.

[ministryman]

There are two main types of Vampire stories: those that involve shock and terror and gore and those that focus more on the isolation and psychological effects of living with the transformation. I suspect that this is the latter but would prefer confirmation before going too deep into structural observations.

I agree with what others have said about "fleshing out" the family members and was pleased to see some useful feedback you'd gotten in the subsequent thread. In additions to behavioral additions you might want to include a bit more chatter from the Amy character regarding her feelings toward Kara.

Dale seems unrealistically passive.

Overall, I liked what I read. Amy seems likable in her positivity and attention to detail but I think there are some issues that will arise with the likability/believability of the character without some minor adjustments.

If I were in Development I'd bite on this one. It seems to be coming from a rare, if not unique, viewpoint.

Do not take Dale's meekness for weakness. :mad:

There are men like him out there. They don't feel the need to thump their chest and drag their knuckles on the ground, but they will stomp the living daylights out of you if you mess with their family.

[cain7]

Do not take Dale's meekness for weakness. :mad:

There are men like him out there. They don't feel the need to thump their chest and drag their knuckles on the ground, but they will stomp the living daylights out of you if you mess with their family.

I'm well aware that there are men of this sort but to this point it hasn't been demonstrated. Should the character play a major part in the story the reader will need some evidence of this if it's to be credible.

No need for redface :D

[PapSett]

Did you try the .pdf of chapters 1-4?

Yup, in fact I just tried again. It said 'aproxinmately 2 seconds remaining' for about 25 minutes. Nothing. And when I tried to cancel, it locked my computer down tighter than a tick...had trouble even rebooting. So as much as I would like to read, unless we can come up with something else, looks like I'm gona have to bow out. :(

[OpalCat]

Well there is the .mobi file. You can download free readers and try that?

[OpalCat]

For a little bit more about Dale, he's a bit of a geek. He's a computer guy, not a physical kind of guy. But I agree he needs to have more presence.

[Rilchiam]

I was going to ask, why can't Dale be her protector at the bachelor party? Seriously, it's not like he's disabled. Quite honestly, if a guy knew I was married and then said "I'll go the party with you" instead of "Can't your husband go with you?" I'd be wary for that reason alone. I'd like it better if originally Dale was going to escort her, but something came up, like a crisis involving his dad in Seattle, and Philip then offered his services instead.

Also, you have got to cut down on the over-description. I understand what you're trying to do, but it really slows down the action.

[OpalCat]

That's just in the beginning to set the tone of the club, it won't continue. Do you really think it's too much for just two chapters?

Dale isn't a physically intimidating guy. He doesn't know how to fight. He isn't really the bodyguard type. He's a computer nerd.

[Rilchiam]

I finished chapter 4. Send the rest when it's ready!

[OpalCat]

Do you think there is too much description still, knowing that it's only going to be there to establish the setting and won't continue that way through the rest of the book?

[Rilchiam]

If that was to me, I'd like to send an email tomorrow; I won't have time until then.

[MsWhatsit]

Getting started on this. I'm taking notes as I go. I should ask, though; what level of critique do you want here? Only macro stuff like comments on plot and character, or micro stuff like grammar/word choice as well? I have an editorial background, so I thought I'd ask before putting on my Super Nitpicker cape.

[OpalCat]

For super nitpick stuff, go ahead and shoot me an email. General thoughts about plot/characters put in the thread.

[MsWhatsit]

OK, here are my thoughts after reading the first four chapters.

First off, the narrator's voice in the first four paragraphs is really good, really strong. I felt like this was a good hook drawing me into the story. I feel like this voice might have subsided a little bit as the story progressed. During the parts where she's describing the strip club and what goes on there: Gold. You get a sense that this is a confident woman that cares about her work and likes what she does. In other parts, though, she sort of drifts into a more bland and generic voice, less individual and somewhat less interesting. Also, this is sort of a minor note, but from the first bit, I got a sense of this person as someone who is reasonably bright but perhaps not all that well-educated, just from her style of speech. It was slightly incongruous later on to see her referencing "the Whore of Babylon". Also, super mondo nitpick, but someone with a 3-year-old is more likely to think that "Hallelujah" is a Jeff Buckley song, since that's the version that was in Shrek. Also you probably don't need to specify that it's the kd lang version, because the L. Cohen and kd lang versions sound pretty much identical if someone else is singing them, if you grok. That's just a big ol' nitpick, though, and not a big deal.

Some of the dialogue feels a bit stilted to me, with people not using contractions where a contraction would feel more natural. Also, some of the dialogue sections, particularly the small-talk bits, go on a little long for me and leave me as a reader wondering "Is this relevant to the story, or why are these people talking for such a long time about mall shopping?" I like that the dialogue is giving us some insight into the characters and showing us some interactions, but some of the chit-chatty aspects are just a little too much. For me, anyway!

I said this already before but it bears repeating: the strip club material is seriously pure gold. The descriptions of how the club works, the different DJs, the way the customers behave, etc. That is really interesting, really well-done stuff. I particularly liked the bits about the money stuck into the dancer's garter "bristling like a hedgehog" and the thing about how guys like talking about themselves, and how when women watch a stripper they are imagining themselves doing the moves.

There are two moments when Amy is surprised by the amount of the tip that Phillip gives her. The first time she bursts into exclamation points, which pulled me out of the story a little bit. The second time, she thinks Oh my God which felt a lot more natural and better-written to me.

I picked up immediately that something weird was going on with this guy in that she was telling him all sorts of things she wouldn't normally tell him. But then several times she talks about the fact that she has a camaraderie developed with him, an easy friendship that feels comfortable and relaxed. I would have liked to have seen some more of their interactions that demonstrate this relationship, rather than simply being told, "They're acting like really good friends now." I will also agree that the husband's reaction to Amy's new vampire status seems really, really understated. I know he's had two days to get used to the info, but I feel like he should be freaking out a little more, or something.

OK, and on the topic of the descriptive material, my only beef is with the descriptions of Amy's clothing, which in some ways feel almost like they belong in a different book. I don't know, maybe it would work better for me if she were analyzing why she's choosing various outfits instead of just going into a catalog-style description of exactly what she's wearing, but I really felt like there was a lot of clothing description, maybe too much.

The explanation of how vampires work in this universe (the dialogue section between Phillip, Amy, and Dale) worked well for me. But that's always one of my favorite parts of vampire stories. :D

I hope this post didn't come across as being too negative. I am looking forward to reading more!

[OpalCat]

Thanks MsWhatsit, this is exactly the kind of critique that I was hoping for. Specifics about what is good and what isn't working. I've never written a novel before so this is all new territory for me. I'll take your points to heart.

[elfkin477]

Do you think there is too much description still, knowing that it's only going to be there to establish the setting and won't continue that way through the rest of the book?Though I haven't read your chapters yet, generally speaking, you want to avoid a change of tone in the book, and going from very descriptive to far less so would definitely change the tone of almost any novel. Things like voice and level of description are supposed to "match" throughout the whole story, which is why I had to rewrite the beginning of the novel I'm working on - the first several pages were much flatter than the 300 (so far) to follow.

[alice_in_wonderland]

You could ship it off to me - I'm low on my 'Books to Read' pile. My e-mail is in my profile. :)

[OpalCat]

Though I haven't read your chapters yet, generally speaking, you want to avoid a change of tone in the book, and going from very descriptive to far less so would definitely change the tone of almost any novel. Things like voice and level of description are supposed to "match" throughout the whole story, which is why I had to rewrite the beginning of the novel I'm working on - the first several pages were much flatter than the 300 (so far) to follow.

It's not so much level of description in general as much as what is being described. The first two chapters describe some of her table dances in detail, to establish how she dances. After that, I don't think it's necessary to be as descriptive when she's dancing. Other things will be descriptive, though.

[Rilchiam]

Okay, I sent an email. Meanwhile, I have a question.

What do moms who are strippers tell their kids about what they do? I mean, you must tell them something. What's a good explanation, that a kid can understand, that also won't come back to you in some horrible distortion if the kid repeats it to adults/other kids?

[OpalCat]

"I work as a waitress at a bar"

[Amber in Treasury]

Take this to the Pit is you must, but Opal, do you really need that much help creating characters? Come on, use your imagination!
I understand that it is important for a fiction writer to thoroughly inform themselves about fields and areas that they are not familiar with, yet are crucial to the story. Conduct some research; be it plumbing, the stock market or Renaissance culture - knock yourself out.
But characters? Seriously, woman. Think of people you know, people you've heard and read about, just plain people. How hard can that be for an artist like you?

[Amber in Treasury]

Whoops, sorry, it seems like my last post would be more appropriate here http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=609843 so mods, feel free to move it. (There are several threads on Opal's novel already...)

[cosmosdan]

I'd be interested in reading it. Email in my profile.

[OpalCat]

Take this to the Pit is you must, but Opal, do you really need that much help creating characters? Come on, use your imagination!
I understand that it is important for a fiction writer to thoroughly inform themselves about fields and areas that they are not familiar with, yet are crucial to the story. Conduct some research; be it plumbing, the stock market or Renaissance culture - knock yourself out.
But characters? Seriously, woman. Think of people you know, people you've heard and read about, just plain people. How hard can that be for an artist like you?

No, I don't need help creating characters, I just thought it would be fun to have some of other people's ideas as bit parts, like customers in the bar. I also just dislike the process of coming up with names.

[Amber in Treasury]

No, I don't need help creating characters, I just thought it would be fun to have some of other people's ideas as bit parts, like customers in the bar. I also just dislike the process of coming up with names.

Well then, I'm sorry to be harsh, but you have to go through that process, even if you dislike it. There are a few aspects of creative writing that can be mentally tough and unpleasant - for example, I have fun thinking up characters and a basic storyline, but I always struggle to flesh the story out and put the finer details into words. It's not always easy, but you've got to do it. Good luck.