Rick Perry to jump into the race?

[dalej42]

Story here. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/55836.html)

Out of all the potential Republican nominees, Rick Perry scares me the most as an Obama supporter.

I don't like Perry at all, but I'll agree he's a very savvy politician who knows exactly how to read the political winds. He knows exactly how to pander to the Religious Right. In 2005, he ceremoniously signed the Texas constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage at a Ft. Worth mega church. Of course, constitutional amendments don't need to be signed into law by the governor, but Perry was able to rally the faithful and scare off a potential Kay Bailey Hutchison primary challenge.

He used his connections with the media to sandbag Debra Medina when she started to pick up momentum in the 2010 Republican primary by having Glenn Beck bring up the 9/11 'truther' question.

Perry pandered to the tea party crowd with his talk of secession during the worst of the recession. However, as the tea partiers started getting crazier, he quietly has distanced himself from the fringe.

I'm not sure he is going to run in 2012, however. It is always difficult to knock off an incumbent and it might be a bit too soon to elect another Texas governor. I could see him finishing out his term as TX governor, perhaps delivering the keynote speech at the convention, and appearing on Fox News every chance he gets.

Thoughts on a potential Perry run? Are there any rumors of skeletons in the closet that might keep him out of a national race?

[Chronos]

Sure he'll be able to fire up the base, but is there anyone who'd vote for him who isn't already part of the Republican base? He might end up with the nomination, but there's no way that he'd beat Obama (or rather, if he does, it would be because things have gotten so bad that anyone could beat Obama).

[threeorange]

Perry pandered to the tea party crowd with his talk of secession during the worst of the recession.

This seems like a mallet with which he could be repeatedly hammered by a Republican primary opponent (or Obama, should Perry become the GOP nominee). They could contrast this with their own "unceasing, unwavering loyalty" to the USA.

[Ca3799]

I enjoyed an article by Bob Moser about Perry potentially running. If I may quote a little:

"..permit me to ask you to close your eyes for a minute and meditate on this image: Rick Perry on a debate stage. National TV, scorching floodlights, scores of millions of viewers. Hair just so, Grecian Forumla’d to a lustrous black sheen. He is furrowing his brow, squinting in an effort to look Presidential, reminding himself: Try and not sound exactly like George W. The Yankees don’t like that. He is sporting his lucky pink tie. He is fidgety. He is rarin’ to go!

Across the stage, Barack Obama. Supremely confident. Gray-headed. Exuding cool rationality.

And now imagine the questions from the panel of reporters. George Will, George Stephanopolous, Anderson Cooper, Lady Gaga—doesn’t matter. It goes something like this:

“Governor Perry, you said before the campaign began that the single most important issue in 2012 was the Tenth Amendment. Do you honestly believe that the majority of Americans consider states’ rights a higher priority than improving health care or education or national security?”

“Governor Perry, you have hinged your campaign on your success in bringing jobs to the State of Texas. But during the period you boast about, your state added more minimum-wage jobs than the 49 other states combined. Texas now has more citizens living in poverty, more uninsured children and adults than any other state. Is that your vision for America?”

“As governor of Texas, Mr. Perry, you have doled out hundreds of millions in taxpayer dollars, along with thousands of high-level government jobs and appointments, to your largest campaign contributors. As president, do you intend to continue this practice?”"

[Boyo Jim]

Wow, and not even a mention of secession.

[Chronos]

That sort of goes along with the states' rights thing.

[waterj2]

It's a decidedly perverse world where the fact that over one in four children in Texas (IIRC) have no health insurance and fewer than 2% of children in Massachusetts are uninsured is the biggest problem the former Massachusetts governor faces in a potential matchup.

[joebuck20]

Thoughts on a potential Perry run? Are there any rumors of skeletons in the closet that might keep him out of a national race?

There've been rumors flying around for years that he was once caught in flagrante delicto with a male aide at his office in the state capitol.

[Unix Geek]

I am hoping that he resigns to run for President. Then he would no longer be my Governor and wouldn't become my President. This would be a win-win for me.

[An Arky]

Every single GOP wannabe so far is pure comic relief. It's as if they're just asking for the ol' selzer squirt in the shorts for '12.

[Crane]

The Republican freak show

PALIN / PERRY in 2012

Crane

[Little Nemo]

It would surprise me. Perry is a smart politician. He must realize that 2012 is going to be an uphill battle for any Republican candidate. I think Perry, like many of the other more astute politicians, will wait until 2016.

Granted that can backfire. A lot of top Democrats thought Bush would be unbeatable in 1992.

[gonzomax]

We have had a lot of luck with Texas governors. I can't wait.

[abbeytxs]

I am hoping that he resigns to run for President. Then he would no longer be my Governor and wouldn't become my President. This would be a win-win for me.

I couldn't agree with you more. I so hope he runs for president so he will be too distracted to pay attention to Texas.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

The secession thing alone kills him. He doesn't want to be an American. The commercials write themselves.

[Least Original User Name Ever]

The secession thing alone kills him. He doesn't want to be an American. The commercials write themselves.

Depends how it's spun. He could be seen as a champion for local governance/states' rights.

[Icarus]

The secession thing alone kills him. He doesn't want to be an American. The commercials write themselves.

Oh come on, you know perfectly well the right-wing-spin-machine will turn his succession talk into being a "Real American, like our founding fathers, rebelling against tyrany!"

[Boyo Jim]

Depends how it's spun. He could be seen as a champion for local governance/states' rights.

I don't see how wanting to secede can be made into a positive for the job of President of the United States.

But for President of the Republic of Texas...

[Onomatopoeia]

I don't see how wanting to secede can be made into a positive for the job of President of the United States.Really? That's an aphrodisiac for the base. They'll eat that crap right up. And if he makes it to the nomination, he can be comforted by the fact that the high road-taking Democrats won't bring it up.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Oh come on, you know perfectly well the right-wing-spin-machine will turn his succession talk into being a "Real American, like our founding fathers, rebelling against tyrany!"
That kind of stuff will only work on teabagger types, though. It alienates swing voters.

[Boyo Jim]

Really? That's an aphrodisiac for the base. They'll eat that crap right up. And if he makes it to the nomination, he can be comforted by the fact that the high road-taking Democrats won't bring it up.

"Real Americans" don't secede from the Union. They take away the civil rights of the un-Americans -- stop them from voting, criminalize all kinds of un-American acts so they can slap them in jail or execute them if possible, and TAKE AMERICA BACK!

[Simplicio]

Meh, Perry's succession talk was pretty stupid, but its not like anyone thought he was seriously musing succeeding from the Union. It'll hurt him a little, but he'll brush it off as hyperbole and get over it pretty easily. Its not like he started shelling federal forts.

I'd be pretty surprised if he ran though, up until last week he was pretty unambiguous about not running.

[Chronos]

It seems to me a pretty basic lesson from Politics 101 that you don't talk about things like secession unless you really mean it, and if you do talk about it, you should fully expect your opponents to blast you on it as if you actually did mean it.

[Simplicio]

It seems to me a pretty basic lesson from Politics 101 that you don't talk about things like secession unless you really mean it, and if you do talk about it, you should fully expect your opponents to blast you on it as if you actually did mean it.

But I don't think most voters will think he really meant it. So blasted or not I doubt it will make a difference. Or at least it might hurt, but no more then other current politicians have been hurt by saying dumb things in front of the camera. Obama claiming Hillary voters are "bitter" or Palin saying she can see Russia from her house.

I'd bet Romney wishes he could trade a few minutes musing about succession in front of a camera for having passed Romneycare.

[Boyo Jim]

He can't just say he was joking, and he can't just say he said it to satisfy the nutcases. Either claim would piss off his base -- you know, the nutcases.

[Merijeek]

“Governor Perry, you said before the campaign began that the single most important issue in 2012 was the Tenth Amendment. Do you honestly believe that the majority of Americans consider states’ rights a higher priority than improving health care or education or national security?”

“Governor Perry, you have hinged your campaign on your success in bringing jobs to the State of Texas. But during the period you boast about, your state added more minimum-wage jobs than the 49 other states combined. Texas now has more citizens living in poverty, more uninsured children and adults than any other state. Is that your vision for America?”

“As governor of Texas, Mr. Perry, you have doled out hundreds of millions in taxpayer dollars, along with thousands of high-level government jobs and appointments, to your largest campaign contributors. As president, do you intend to continue this practice?”"

Wow, that's not complete fantasy. I'm imagining that the questions, as usual, will just be a variation of "Mr. Perry. As Governor, what was your favorite parade?"

-Joe

[Boyo Jim]

"Governor Perry, how do you keep your hair looking so good?"

[gravitycrash]

It's a decidedly perverse world where the fact that over one in four children in Texas (IIRC) have no health insurance and fewer than 2% of children in Massachusetts are uninsured is the biggest problem the former Massachusetts governor faces in a potential matchup.

Well it is now, at least for me. If he doesn't have enough integrity or balls to stand for what he believes then I have no use for him. He is a major league flip-flopper much like McCain was.

With this field so far, including Perry, Obama will win in a landslide unless the economy goes back into the toilet, which is looking quite possible right now.

[Profound Gibberish]

He won't run. He has too much unchecked power in Texas that he would have to give up. I also can't imagine that he would want to release his detailed financial information. He also has zero personality and that would not resonate with voters.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Partisanship aside, I think the bottom line is that the Republicans really don't have a candidate who is a credibly better option that Obama. They really don't have anything solid to attack him on. He's had no scandals, no major mistakes, has had some success stabilizing the disastrous economic situation he inherited. On national security (an area the GOP usually tries to claim for itself), he's been stellar. He drew down in Iraq, stepped up drone attacks in Afghanistan, killed bin Laden (and killed him in a very satisfying way), he handled that Somali pirate situation perfectly, etc. They can't call him a pussy on national security.

He really doesn't have a vulnerability. The best they can do is to keep trying to portray his package of modest health care reforms (mostly just consumer protections from insurance companies) as "socialist."

At the end of the day, there's no real reason to replace him. It's 2016 that will be the Republicans next best opening. I don't see any obvious successor to Obama in the Dems field.

[Boyo Jim]

He won't run. He has too much unchecked power in Texas that he would have to give up. I also can't imagine that he would want to release his detailed financial information. He also has zero personality and that would not resonate with voters.

I dunno. I get the impression he would like a big army to play with.

[Least Original User Name Ever]

He won't run. He has too much unchecked power in Texas that he would have to give up. I also can't imagine that he would want to release his detailed financial information. He also has zero personality and that would not resonate with voters.

Is the financial information a big problem for him?

[Chronos]

He won't run. He has too much unchecked power in Texas that he would have to give up.Wait, don't Republicans keep assuring us that the fact that Texas is a hellhole doesn't reflect badly on its governors, since after all, it's really mostly just a figurehead position without any real power?

[Profound Gibberish]

Is the financial information a big problem for him?

It would give everyone a good idea of where his money comes from (outside of his offical paycheck) and I don't think either he or his financial supporters want that.

Another big issue is that Texas is $25 Billion in the hole due to policies implemented by him during his administration. He would atually have to answer questions about that if he ran for prez.

He also would not debate anyone in the last goobernatorial (sp?) ;) election and I do not see him debating anyone at anytime in the future--he does not like to answer questions.

[Merijeek]

Wait, don't Republicans keep assuring us that the fact that Texas is a hellhole doesn't reflect badly on its governors, since after all, it's really mostly just a figurehead position without any real power?

Well, sure. But they also assure us that the POTUS has no real influence on the economy. That would be before and after insisting that everything bad that happens to the economy is due to a bad Democrat in the big chair and that everything good that happens to the economy is due to a Republican president.

Clear?

-Joe

[LonghornDave]

He won't run. He has too much unchecked power in Texas that he would have to give up. I also can't imagine that he would want to release his detailed financial information. He also has zero personality and that would not resonate with voters.

You're way off on all of this. The Texas governor position is relatively weak. He has been releasing his financial disclosures for over a decade. The guy is a career politician; he's used to releasing his financials. Finally, he doesn't suffer from a lack of personality; he suffers from being a buffoon.

[LonghornDave]

Is the financial information a big problem for him?

No.

[furt]

Out of all the potential Republican nominees, Rick Perry scares me the most as an Obama supporter.He shouldn't. You should be so lucky as for the GOP to nominate a Texas governor in 2012.

[LonghornDave]

Out of all the potential Republican nominees, Rick Perry scares me the most as an Obama supporter.
He shouldn't. You should be so lucky as for the GOP to nominate a Texas governor in 2012.

No kidding. Perry would stand absolutely no chance on the big stage. He just comes across as too dumb. He really would do a terrible job in the debates, and he is a worse public speaker than G.W. Bush. He could possibly be an asset as a VP candidate since his exposure would be much more limited, but he would be so incredibly outclassed by even someone like Sarah Palin in a debate. He's really not even that popular in Texas. If the governor's election had been in 2008 instead of 2010, Bill White probably would have beaten him. The timing of the healthcare insurance legislation just destroyed any Democrats' chance.

[Chronos]

Quoth LonghornDave:You're way off on all of this. The Texas governor position is relatively weak.So what you're saying is, it's not really a job that would qualify one for being President?

[LonghornDave]

Quoth LonghornDave:So what you're saying is, it's not really a job that would qualify one for being President?

I do not believe any job qualifies as good experience for the position of President, but I would especially think so of the Texas Governor position in comparison to other large state Governor positions.

In fairness to Perry though, who I obviously do not like, he did serve as the Lieutenant Governor prior to assuming the Governor position. The Lieutenant Governor position is considered to be fairly powerful in Texas.

[Clothahump]

He won't run. He has too much unchecked power in Texas that he would have to give up. I also can't imagine that he would want to release his detailed financial information. He also has zero personality and that would not resonate with voters.

Ummm....the Texas governor has plenty of prestige, but very little power. The true power in Texas is the Lt. Governor, by design.

[Chronos]

So why don't we ever hear of Texan lieutenant governors running for President? And for that matter, what kind of screwed-up system does Texas has, that the guy in charge is called the assistant?

[Little Nemo]

Ummm....the Texas governor has plenty of prestige, but very little power. The true power in Texas is the Lt. Governor, by design.This explains a lot about the Bush/Cheney administration.

[BigT]

From this website (http://texaspolitics.laits.utexas.edu/1_2_0.html), it sounds as if the governor has his explicitly limited powers, while the Lieutenant governor, due to his intended less powerful role, does not. It the LtG has more power, I would think it through his role as president of the legislature.

[dalej42]

Interesting story (http://blogs.star-telegram.com/politex/2011/06/perry-invites-nations-governors-to-prayer-and-fasting-event-in-houston.html) here.

Perry is attending a day of prayer sponsored by the American Family Association in August. Perry doesn't need to pander to Evangelicals in Texas since he just won reelection.

[Recovering Republican]

My thoughts on a Perry candidacy...

Obama should be worried. Every other candidate has some kind of severe flaw that will make the GOP nomination a bloodbath. Romney's a Mormon, and the evangelicals will never support a Mormon. Palin is disdained by the establishment for being, well, kind of dopey and crass. Gingrich is a joke. Bachmann appeals to the TEA bag nutters, but she's feared by, well, sane Republicans.

Perry is the one guy who could unite both the TEA Party and Establishment. He's successfully hit all the hot buttons both sides like. He could easily win Iowa (and winning in Iowa would probably only take about 25% and South Carolina.

The fact that Newt's Staff all bailed yesterday, and a bunch of them have ties to Perry indicates that Perry has seen his moment.

Because, hey, the last time we had a Texas Governor worked out so well.

[Recovering Republican]

Partisanship aside, I think the bottom line is that the Republicans really don't have a candidate who is a credibly better option that Obama. They really don't have anything solid to attack him on. He's had no scandals, no major mistakes, has had some success stabilizing the disastrous economic situation he inherited. On national security (an area the GOP usually tries to claim for itself), he's been stellar. He drew down in Iraq, stepped up drone attacks in Afghanistan, killed bin Laden (and killed him in a very satisfying way), he handled that Somali pirate situation perfectly, etc. They can't call him a pussy on national security.

He really doesn't have a vulnerability. The best they can do is to keep trying to portray his package of modest health care reforms (mostly just consumer protections from insurance companies) as "socialist."



But all that doesn't really mean anything if unemployment doesn't get better. If Unemployment is still at 9% or worse, higher next year, the Republicans can nominate the Cheney/C'Thulhu ticket and still win.

Now, cards on the table, I didn't vote for Obama, but I don't think he's done a bad job. Everything you say is accurate- he's done a good job with the hand dealt to him. And frankly, nearly every Republican up this time scares me for different reasons.

On Paper, Perry sounds great. Then again, so did George W. Bush and we all saw how well that worked out. (Hense, my handle.)

[bump]

From this website (http://texaspolitics.laits.utexas.edu/1_2_0.html), it sounds as if the governor has his explicitly limited powers, while the Lieutenant governor, due to his intended less powerful role, does not. It the LtG has more power, I would think it through his role as president of the legislature.

What makes the Lt. Gov. the real powerful politician is really one thing- he has procedural control of the legislature. What this means is that he has control over assignation of bills to committees, setting the legislative schedule, and determining what measures reach the floor.

The governor can veto stuff, and a limited amount of other things, but the Lt. Governor is who has the statutory powers.

What would worry me about a Perry presidency is that I'm not at all sure that his predilection for power-grabs and trying to concentrate more power in himself and the governor's office, wouldn't also travel to Washington with him. I think that concentrating more power in the Executive branch is a terrible thing, and the last thing we actually want.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

My thoughts on a Perry candidacy...

Obama should be worried. Every other candidate has some kind of severe flaw that will make the GOP nomination a bloodbath. Romney's a Mormon, and the evangelicals will never support a Mormon. Palin is disdained by the establishment for being, well, kind of dopey and crass. Gingrich is a joke. Bachmann appeals to the TEA bag nutters, but she's feared by, well, sane Republicans.

Perry is the one guy who could unite both the TEA Party and Establishment. He's successfully hit all the hot buttons both sides like. He could easily win Iowa (and winning in Iowa would probably only take about 25% and South Carolina.

The fact that Newt's Staff all bailed yesterday, and a bunch of them have ties to Perry indicates that Perry has seen his moment.

Because, hey, the last time we had a Texas Governor worked out so well.
It's going to be hard for Perry to explain his secessionist remarks. He has also said he wants to teach creationism in schools, denies global warming and said he believes that anyone who is not a Christian goes to Hell. I don't see how he's going to have any appeal to moderates. He's socially even more nuts than Bachmann or Palin.

[Profound Gibberish]

Perry has waaaaaaayyyyyyy too much right fringe baggage to attract moderates. He also happens to be a complete idiot. This will become clearly evident at any debate. Don't waste you time on him. I give his electability potential two Gingrich's.

[Death of Rats]

Oh come on, you know perfectly well the right-wing-spin-machine will turn his succession talk into being a "Real American, like our founding fathers, rebelling against tyrany!"

That flys with the base he already has locked up. What about the other 70% of Americans who are sane?

I don't buy that line.

No one I know, both Liberal and Conservative bought that line.

How would that win over the Independents and Right leaning Democrats that he would need to peel away from Obama?

[Recovering Republican]

It's going to be hard for Perry to explain his secessionist remarks. He has also said he wants to teach creationism in schools, denies global warming and said he believes that anyone who is not a Christian goes to Hell. I don't see how he's going to have any appeal to moderates. He's socially even more nuts than Bachmann or Palin.

The Secessionist remarks MIGHT be a problem.

Creationism and global warming and only CHristians go to Heaven. Hate to say it, those are pretty mainstream views amongst Americans.

For instance, only 19% believe that man evolved without any help from God. The rest either believe evolution was guided by God or the Biblical version is literally true. :smack:

[JimH52]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43358635/ns/politics-decision_2012/

It seems be may be posturing to do just that. Would he instantly become the front runner for the GOP?

[Frank]

I don't believe he'd instantly become the front-runner, but he'd certainly instantly join the front-runners.

[BobLibDem]

You mean there are people who likethis bozo? What has he done notable except threaten to secede?

[aldiboronti]

He's photogenic, he's charismatic and he's politically smart as a whip. There are rumors that Palin may endorse him rather than make a run for the nomination herself (which she wouldn't get anyway). He's also popular with the Tea Party wing and the mainstream Republicans, which is a feat in itself. All in all, with the economy still in the tank and the Bin Laden bounce a wistful memory, he spells trouble for the Dems.

[twickster]

Merged duplicate threads.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

He's photogenic, he's charismatic and he's politically smart as a whip. There are rumors that Palin may endorse him rather than make a run for the nomination herself (which she wouldn't get anyway). He's also popular with the Tea Party wing and the mainstream Republicans, which is a feat in itself. All in all, with the economy still in the tank and the Bin Laden bounce a wistful memory, he spells trouble for the Dems.
He's a douchebag secessionist, creationist, global warming denier with no appeal outside of the teabaggers. I don't know why anybody thinks this asshole could crossover to the mainstream. If you think this dipshit is a savior for the GOP, you're dreaming. Like it or not, the Republicans have no shot at all unless they nominate somebody who can offer something to moderates and indepenents. What's Perry's big plan for bringing back the economy? The righties are going to have to do something besides call Obama a socialist, and they're going to have to drop their moronic social issues - especially the completely fantastic stuff like climate change denial. That's not going to cut it in a General Election anymore.

I think Rick Perry is this cycle's Fred Thompson. Remember how he was supposed to be the savior of the GOP? Then once he got in, he totally fizzled.

It's going to be Romney. Rick Perry doesn't want to be an Amrican. That, all by itself, makes his candidacy a non-starter, and when you throw in all the crazy, stupid social issue stuff, the total lack of any economic credentials (Texas in the shitter right now), and his charmless, reptilian personality, he's got no prayer at all.

[scabpicker]

It might be because I see most of his stupid acts, but I don't think he's that strong of a candidate. He did not actually perform as well as he had hoped in the last election, as the Dem. candidate tallied over 40%. In TX these days, that's a moral victory. If he gets the nomination, I would see him as less of a threat than Romney.

[Boyo Jim]

...That, all by itself, makes his candidacy a non-starter, and when you throw in all the crazy, stupid social issue stuff, the total lack of any economic credentials (Texas in the shitter right now), and his charmless, reptilian personality, he's got no prayer at all.

I beg to differ. It's ALL prayer. He's even calling prayer recruits to his prayer breakfast.

[lieu]

Perry tried to push through the Trans Texas Corridor, a shameful landgrab that only his wealthy developer supporters wanted. He also signed legislation mandating women be provided a video sonogram of their baby before being allowed to have an abortion. He does rely heavily on the Christain right so I wonder how he's going to explain/spin this: KHOU reported last night that Perry made (I think) 1.2 million last year. His 10% tithing came up a little short though, totaling only 90 dollars. Yes, 90. In the entire decade before, when he earned some 2 or 3 million his tithe total was around $14,000 or so.

Hr refused to debate Bill White in the Governor's race, knowing full well he have his ass handed him on a platter. White would have been three times the guv Perry's been.

As a Texan who remains an Independent, I have often voted Republican for the Governor's office. But I can't frikkin' stand Perry. He's an absolute embarassment. I take some solace in the feeling he'll get his ass kicked on the national stage but do prefer that he would just stfu instead.

[JimH52]

I have a feeling he will announce late that he is in the race. He will have appeal at first, but as more facts and his platform are revealed, Romney will regain momentun, and eventually win the GOP nod.

[Recovering Republican]

Sure he'll be able to fire up the base, but is there anyone who'd vote for him who isn't already part of the Republican base? He might end up with the nomination, but there's no way that he'd beat Obama (or rather, if he does, it would be because things have gotten so bad that anyone could beat Obama).

Things have gotten so bad ANYONE can beat Obama at this point.

Perry has a lot going for him.

1) Texas has done better than most of the country in this recession. Of course, they get the advantage of having some of the NAFTA soak-off of all that commerce that moves up from Mexico.

2) Solid street cred with the Religious Right, the Tea Party and the GOP establishment. He might well be a solid comprimise candidate after the Establishment rejects Bachmann and the Base rejects Romney (again!)

3) Hasn't been caught in "moderate heresies" like support of single payer health care or support of cap and trade. (Personally, I consider this a strike, but it helps him with the nomination.)

4) The guy isn't even running yet, and two polls have him within striking distance of Romney. He is ahead of Bachmann, Palin, Pawlenty and Huntsman.

http://realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/republican_presidential_nomination-1452.html

Now, inevitably, we get the comparisons to George W. Bush in that they are both from Texas. Except that Bush was pretty much angling to run for President after his father got voted out, Perry is being drafted more than running, I think.

[Marley23]

Things have gotten so bad ANYONE can beat Obama at this point.
I think you've convinced yourself through repetition, but that doesn't make an argument. A couple of weeks ago you were saying anyone could beat if unemployment stayed high around election time. Now it's just 'anyone can beat him' without qualifiers?

[Recovering Republican]

I have a feeling he will announce late that he is in the race. He will have appeal at first, but as more facts and his platform are revealed, Romney will regain momentun, and eventually win the GOP nod.

I don't think Romney's nominatable.

Strike 1- He's a Mormon. To the evangelicals and baptists who make up the GOP base, Mormons are a heretical cult. To a non-religious person like myself, it's a goofy religion started by a con man who wanted to have sex with teenage girls.

(the difference between Joseph Smith and David Koresh? Original and Extra Crispy!)

Any discussion of Mormon beliefs isn't going to help Romney. Hebrews in Ancient America, dark skin is a curse from God, God lives on a planet called Kolob, when you die you go to another planet and father millions of spirit children... oh, yeah, and Magic Underpants.


Strike 2 - RomneyCare (or ObamaCare the BetaVersion.) This is actually where I kind of feel bad for Romney. Almost. When he proposed RomneyCare instead of a single payer system, the Heritage Foundation, Club for Growth and other conservative think tanks praised it as a free market solution.

then Obama cravenly backed down on Health care, and instead of the Canada style system he wanted, he got something that looked just like- RomneyCare. But since the wingnuts hate ObamaCare because it has Obama in it, they hate RomneyCare, too.


Strike 3- Abortion, Gay Marriage, and everything else. After years of supporting moderate positions on social issues, he's now trying to run in a party that takes conservative positions on these issues. He tried to claim he changed his mind on them in 2008, but no one bought it. "He's not pro-Choice, he's multiple choice".

Strike 4- Wall Street Raider- This wouldn't have been a strike against him a few years ago, but the Tea Party influence has an undertone of dislike for Wall Street. His argument is that he turned companies around. The argument against that is he turned companies around by laying people off.

[Recovering Republican]

I think you've convinced yourself through repetition, but that doesn't make an argument. A couple of weeks ago you were saying anyone could beat if unemployment stayed high around election time. Now it's just 'anyone can beat him' without qualifiers?

I no longer believe unemployment is going to go down. I think there is absolutely no incentive for businesses to add people at this point and help this clown who wants to screw them.

Or maybe I just got annoyed by the polyanna-ish support of his supporters here who act like nothing is wrong.

Guy- a lot of stuff is wrong.

[Marley23]

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by recovering Republican.

[Recovering Republican]

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by recovering Republican.


I'm sure you misunderstand a lot of things...

[Marley23]

I'm sure you misunderstand a lot of things...
No doubt. However I don't think nothing is wrong with the economy. I do think that your unqualified prediction is ridiculous at this early date - we're more than six months from the first primaries, nevermind the general election - and changing it because you don't like Obama supporters makes little sense.

[Recovering Republican]

No doubt. However I don't think nothing is wrong with the economy. I do think that your unqualified prediction is ridiculous at this early date - we're more than six months from the first primaries, nevermind the general election - and changing it because you don't like Obama supporters makes little sense.

My opinion is based on being involved in politics most of my adult life and having seen a lot of similar scenarios play out.

I guess I'm influenced by my own job, where they are tearing down the empty cubicles because they have no intention of filling them. Or my last job, where I visited some old friends, and found that they are also just going to keep working the folks they have harder. And why not?

Crap, if I can get the same amount of work done with four people that I could with six, I'll just hire four.

And given the business class absolutely despises Obama at this point, they aren't going to help the guy. That crack about private planes yesterday I'm sure cost 100,000 jobs.

[Marley23]

That crack about private planes yesterday I'm sure cost 100,000 jobs.
I think that's a fantasy.

[Recovering Republican]

I think that's a fantasy.

Oh, no, not really. I suspect there were a lot of CEO's who went back to their offices and thought, "How can I really screw this idiot?"

Not hire anyone I don't have to hire, that's how.

Having failed to produce jobs, Obama is now playing the class warfare card.

[scabpicker]

Oh, no, not really. I suspect there were a lot of CEO's who went back to their offices and thought, "How can I really screw this idiot?"

Not hire anyone I don't have to hire, that's how.

Having failed to produce jobs, Obama is now playing the class warfare card.

Well, I am pretty sure they weren't going to hire anyone they didn't have to hire on Tuesday, either.

[Merijeek]

Well, I am pretty sure they weren't going to hire anyone they didn't have to hire on Tuesday, either.

No, they were about to hire 100,000 people. Not for the good of their business, not for the sake of making profits. No, they were going to do it because it was the correct, humanitarian thing to do. But then the Lyin African said something they didn't like so FUCK EVERYONE.

SOME NIGGER SAYS SOMETHING I DON'T LIKE? FUCK MY BUSINESS. FUCK THE WORKING CLASS. I'M GOING TO PUNISH HIM AND PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE!

Looks like RR "recovered" from Bush worship and transitioned to full on Teabagging.

-Joe

[Ambivalid]

Are we talking about running for the Presidency of the United States or the Presidency of the Republic of Texas?:rolleyes:

[Chronos]

Oh, no, not really. I suspect there were a lot of CEO's who went back to their offices and thought, "How can I really screw this idiot?"

Not hire anyone I don't have to hire, that's how.

Having failed to produce jobs, Obama is now playing the class warfare card. That sounds like you're saying that there really is class warfare going on. The rich deliberately screwing over the working class, just to spite the current President, and get him replaced by someone who better stands up for their interests? How is that not class warfare?

[gonzomax]

Seceding will only appeal to a small base of crazy Texans. It will not play in the patriotic mid west and other southern states. It will not be a positive across the country. Many Americans will be offended.
He is another Repub joke. The right wing cupboard is bare.

[Folacin]

4) The guy isn't even running yet, and two polls have him within striking distance of Romney. He is ahead of Bachmann, Palin, Pawlenty and Huntsman.

http://realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/republican_presidential_nomination-1452.html

It's easy to be ahead (or close) when you aren't running yet. Right now, he's likely picking up a good chunk of the "I don't like any of the current candidates" group. Once he either declares or is all but declared, then the fun will begin. Not saying he won't hold up, but right now no one is aiming any fire his way.

[Recovering Republican]

No, they were about to hire 100,000 people. Not for the good of their business, not for the sake of making profits. No, they were going to do it because it was the correct, humanitarian thing to do. But then the Lyin African said something they didn't like so FUCK EVERYONE.

SOME NIGGER SAYS SOMETHING I DON'T LIKE? FUCK MY BUSINESS. FUCK THE WORKING CLASS. I'M GOING TO PUNISH HIM AND PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE!

Looks like RR "recovered" from Bush worship and transitioned to full on Teabagging.

-Joe


No, guy, not really.

I do have to thank some of you folks for reminding me why I became a Republican in the first place, though.

Practical matter, you're a CEO, and he's talking about raising taxes and villifying you, why would you hire more people when you are just going to have to fork over that money to the government anyway?

[gonzomax]

No, guy, not really.

I do have to thank some of you folks for reminding me why I became a Republican in the first place, though.

Practical matter, you're a CEO, and he's talking about raising taxes and villifying you, why would you hire more people when you are just going to have to fork over that money to the government anyway?

You hire when there is demand for your product. Merely cutting business taxes will generate greater profits. But who will hire when the demand is not there and you are keeping up with todays demand. That argument is old , stale and wrong.
You remind me of why I dislike the Republican mantras. They make no sense at all, but if you do not analyze, merely agree without thinking, it makes some perverted sense. Sheer sophistry. You will not hire regardless of how much taxes are cut. It just increases profits for those on top. We have had enough of that.

[42fish]

I do have to thank some of you folks for reminding me why I became a Republican in the first place, though.

Practical matter, you're a CEO, and he's talking about raising taxes and villifying you, why would you hire more people when you are just going to have to fork over that money to the government anyway?

So, you're saying you became a Republican because you don't understand how economics and taxation work?

[Merijeek]

No, guy, not really.

I do have to thank some of you folks for reminding me why I became a Republican in the first place, though.

Practical matter, you're a CEO, and he's talking about raising taxes and villifying you, why would you hire more people when you are just going to have to fork over that money to the government anyway?

Because you weren't going to do it for his benefit anyway? Presumably you were in business to make money. If you were going to make money by hiring these people, and then changed your mind in a fit of pique at the president, then you're presumably a pretty shitty businessman. Probably owned the Texas Rangers at some point, really.

So, you're saying you became a Republican because you don't understand how economics and taxation work?

Usually. That or a love of Jeebus, hatred of brown people, or a terror of commies.

-Joe

[scabpicker]

No, guy, not really.

I do have to thank some of you folks for reminding me why I became a Republican in the first place, though.

Practical matter, you're a CEO, and he's talking about raising taxes and villifying you, why would you hire more people when you are just going to have to fork over that money to the government anyway?

So, your position really is that there were lots of business owners planning on hiring unnecessary employees before the presidents speech on Wednesday?

Because if I were a CEO, I'd hire the persons my company needs to survive and prosper, and no more than that. Screw what the president's doing wrt taxes.

[etv78]

IMO, if he gets in it's his nomination to lose. Nobody in the current crop excites GOP voters, I bet Perry would remedy that.

[Chronos]

So how long can he not declare he's running, before we should conclude that he's not running?

[El Gui]

But if Perry is trailing (http://blog.chron.com/txpotomac/2011/06/poll-obama-would-beat-rick-perry-and-sarah-palin-in-texas-but-lose-to-ron-paul-and-other-republicans/) Obama in Texas, how can he stand a chance?

[Recovering Republican]

So, you're saying you became a Republican because you don't understand how economics and taxation work?

Id rather have Bush and Reagan's economies than Obama's and Carters...

No, I became a Republican because we had Jimmy Carter, who basically let any third world craphead urinate on our flag.

there was a Joke my Drill Sergeant told in 1981.

Jimmy Carter gets to Heaven and meets JFK. JFK asks about what went on during Carter's presidency.

Carter - "Well, the Iranians overthrew the Shah and held our embassy staff hostage."

JFK- "And you sent in the Marines, right?"

Carter - "Well, uh, no. They were still hostages when I left. And then the Russians invaded Afghanistan."

JFK -"And you sent in the Marines, right?"

Carter -"Well, uh, no."

JFK -"Damn, Jimmy, next you'll tell me you gave away the Panama Canal!"

NOw, what has bothered me about Republicans is that deep down, they are there to do the dirty work of the wealthy, and stay in office by pandering to the religious nutbags. Being neither wealthy nor religious, I was never comfortable with that.

But I've also lived long enough to watch Democrats stab our troops in the back three times in time of war. I remember Luis Guiteriez bringing his little motley group of protestors in front of my national guard armory in 1990. And they made that fool a Congressman, actually carved out a special district so he could win.

Today, I look at elections like south park said. It's usually a choice between a douche and a turd, and that's how you have to vote.

I'll vote for Obama if his opponent is Romney, Palin or Huntsman. I'll vote for Perry if he gets the nod, because Perry at least has a record of economic growth compared to Obama's record....

Bachmann, I'm on the fence on. She's nuts, but she might get the job done. It will entirely depend on what the economy looks like a year from now.

[Recovering Republican]

You hire when there is demand for your product. Merely cutting business taxes will generate greater profits. But who will hire when the demand is not there and you are keeping up with todays demand. That argument is old , stale and wrong.
You remind me of why I dislike the Republican mantras. They make no sense at all, but if you do not analyze, merely agree without thinking, it makes some perverted sense. Sheer sophistry. You will not hire regardless of how much taxes are cut. It just increases profits for those on top. We have had enough of that.

What I've had enough of is 3 years of 9% unemployment. I think so has everyone else.

When your guy gets unemployment to where it was when he took office, MAYBE he'll have argument.

[Folacin]

Practical matter, you're a CEO, and he's talking about raising taxes and villifying you, why would you hire more people when you are just going to have to fork over that money to the government anyway?

Because if you hire people, you'll have less cash to be taxed? Unless your profits go up (presumably the reason you're considering hiring), in which case it's a win-win?

[Recovering Republican]

Because if you hire people, you'll have less cash to be taxed? Unless your profits go up (presumably the reason you're considering hiring), in which case it's a win-win?

One more time.

Unemployment under Obama has been 9.4% on average, compared to 5.2% average for Bush-43.

So really, I'll take your advice on the employment things when your guy actually accomplishes something on that front.

To Paraphrase Ronald Reagan.

It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job.
It's a depression when you lose your job.
It's recovery when Obama loses his job.

NOw here's the thing, Rick Perry has one of only three states where the employment level is back to where it was before the Recession started.

[Finagle]

What I've had enough of is 3 years of 9% unemployment. I think so has everyone else.

When your guy gets unemployment to where it was when he took office, MAYBE he'll have argument.

Is there any possibility you could just start a thread called "Obama is doomed if the economy still sucks in 2012" and stop derailing every "Will X run?" thread in Elections? i'd rather hear people discussing the merits (if any) and weaknesses of the potential candidate rather than the same tiresome rehashing of the same argument.

This is getting tiresome.

[Recovering Republican]

Is there any possibility you could just start a thread called "Obama is doomed if the economy still sucks in 2012" and stop derailing every "Will X run?" thread in Elections? i'd rather hear people discussing the merits (if any) and weaknesses of the potential candidate rather than the same tiresome rehashing of the same argument.

This is getting tiresome.

I will as soon as you guys stop saying that "Republicans don't know nuttin' about economics."

Or trying to blame all our problems on the guy who retired 3 years ago....

Incidently, I've talked about Perry and what I think his merits and flaws are pretty extensively in this thread, and no one really responds to that...

You can't blame me for responding to what people are actually talking about.

[Recovering Republican]

Here's an interesting article...written by a leftie, who gets snarky but you can tell he's secretly soiling his undies.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-wartzman-texas-20110703,0,964808.story

For the last few weeks, I've been unable to get a startling statistic out of my head: Since the recession officially ended, Texas has created more than 4 of every 10 new jobs in America.

That's right, Texas: the reddest of red states, home to gun lovers and school textbooks that openly question whether the Founding Fathers intended for the separation of church and state. I am no ideologue. Still, whenever I get political, I tend to tilt reflexively to the left, making the jobs figure a bit disconcerting at first.

But there's no escaping it. The number is real. Which means that if you care about putting people back to work at a time when nearly 14 million in this country are unemployed, maybe Texas has something to teach us.

Unfortunately, that's not the posture many commentators have taken. Instead, when the data from Texas emerged — touted first by Richard Fisher, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas — conservatives were quick to celebrate, embracing the jobs tally as powerful evidence of the superiority of Republican ideas as well as proof that Texas Gov. Rick Perry would make a good president. But that's overly simplistic.

[tnetennba]

How many new jobs in Texas pay more than 40,000 a year?

[Recovering Republican]

How many new jobs in Texas pay more than 40,000 a year?


Why does that matter. For that matter, how far does 40K a year get you? I know the tax burden isn't as high, so it probably gets you further than it does in IL.

[tnetennba]

Why does that matter[?]

LOL.

[Recovering Republican]

LOL.


Sorry, I mistook you for a serious debater...

[tnetennba]

For that matter, how far does 40K a year get you?

Further than most of those new jobs in Texas.

[Recovering Republican]

Further than most of those new jobs in Texas.


You know what, I'm making just a little over 40K in IL, where they just increased our state income tax 66% so Gov. Quinn (whom I voted for because Brady was so reactionary) to pay off his union buddies.

It's substantially less than what I was making during most of the Bush years. In fact, I'd have to go back to 2002 to find where I did less well. So, yeah, I'm making less under Quinn/Obama and I'm paying more in taxes to boot.

Those people have jobs, and probably most of them don't have that much experience or background. Perry is creating jobs. That's something. It's more than a lot of other people are getting accomplished.

[tnetennba]

Sorry, I mistook you for a serious debater...

I have been overusing the LOL card with you, but it just seems there are so many fatuous posts to LOL at. But I don't want to wander too far off topic and I don't care enough to open a pit thread about it.

In this case you obviously do see the relevance of quality vs. quantity jobs, and even concede that a job paying well above minimum wage isn't enough to get by. I picked 40K as a somewhat tidy figure representing what a single person might be expected to live on, or what half of a two-income family might be able to get by on. That is also twice what one of Perry's new jobs is likely to pay! If most of the new jobs in Texas pay in the 16K-20K range, as the article suggests (at or slightly above minimum wage) that's not a great argument for Rick Perry bringing his plan to the rest of America.

[tnetennba]

You know what, I'm making just a little over 40K in IL, where they just increased our state income tax 66% so Gov. Quinn (whom I voted for because Brady was so reactionary) to pay off his union buddies.

It's substantially less than what I was making during most of the Bush years. In fact, I'd have to go back to 2002 to find where I did less well. So, yeah, I'm making less under Quinn/Obama and I'm paying more in taxes to boot.

Those people have jobs, and probably most of them don't have that much experience or background. Perry is creating jobs. That's something. It's more than a lot of other people are getting accomplished.

Since you're fond of historical lessons, you should google the term "wage slavery."

[Recovering Republican]

I have been overusing the LOL card with you, but it just seems there are so many fatuous posts to LOL at. But I don't want to wander too far off topic and I don't care enough to open a pit thread about it.

In this case you obviously do see the relevance of quality vs. quantity jobs, and even concede that a job paying well above minimum wage isn't enough to get by. I picked 40K as a somewhat tidy figure representing what a single person might be expected to live on, or what half of a two-income family might be able to get by on. That is also twice what one of Perry's new jobs is likely to pay! If most of the new jobs in Texas pay in the 16K-20K range, as the article suggests (at or slightly above minimum wage) that's not a great argument for Rick Perry bringing his plan to the rest of America.

Or maybe you need to start somewhere, guy.

Frankly, when I got laid off in 2008, if I had waited about for a job that paid exactly what I was making, I'd still be laid off. So I made a calculation that taking my current job (which initially only paid about 75% of what I was making) was better than not working at all, and having to explain to a future employer why no one picked me up for two years.

Incidently, someone I worked with is doing exactly that, and she hasn't worked in two years.

Getting people back to work is what is important, the rest is going to follow. When you get unemployment back down to 5%, that's when employers start making real offers and real raises. At 9.1% (eeek, it burns, it burns) they can pretty much feed you what they want.

So I would rather have Perry creating not great jobs than Obama creating NO jobs.

[Recovering Republican]

Since you're fond of historical lessons, you should google the term "wage slavery."

Oh, I agree, wages have declined for working people. And both parties are responsible for that. So are unions that insist on closing the plant instead of making concessions.

The real question is, American actually make far more than most of the world's 7 billion people. Now that we are in a global economy, I'm not sure what he answer is.

I'm reasonably sure "the One" doesn't have it, though.

[tnetennba]

I'm reasonably sure "the One" doesn't have it, though.

Which one is that?

[Chronos]

I'm reminded of a quote from Brian Schweitzer, my current governor. During his campaign, a reporter asked him what he'd do about the lack of jobs in Montana. His response? "There is no lack of jobs in Montana. Why, I know one lady who has three of them. What we lack is good jobs."

It's one thing to trumpet about creating a bunch of minimum-wage jobs, but if those minimum-wage jobs aren't enough to support a family, they're not really doing anything to address the problem.

[Clothahump]

This explains a lot about the Bush/Cheney administration.

No, actually it explains absolutely nothing about the Bush/Cheney administration.

Following Reconstruction, the people of Texas were so bummed by the carpetbaggers that they rewrote the state constitution to spread the political power out between the governor and the lt. governor. Over the years, it has settled into the governor being the front man, the persuader, and the lt. governor being the back room arm-twister. Occasionally, you will have a governor that takes a stronger stance, as have both Bush and Perry, but the lt. governor will always be a major player.

[Recovering Republican]

I'm reminded of a quote from Brian Schweitzer, my current governor. During his campaign, a reporter asked him what he'd do about the lack of jobs in Montana. His response? "There is no lack of jobs in Montana. Why, I know one lady who has three of them. What we lack is good jobs."

It's one thing to trumpet about creating a bunch of minimum-wage jobs, but if those minimum-wage jobs aren't enough to support a family, they're not really doing anything to address the problem.


Well, they do more than letting people sit around collecting welfare and food stamps, watching Jerry Springer...

I think that once we get up to full employment, that when the wages will start getting better. THere's more to it than that, we need to rebuild our manufacturing, get trade policies that aren't completely retarded, etc.

[Recovering Republican]

No, actually it explains absolutely nothing about the Bush/Cheney administration.

Following Reconstruction, the people of Texas were so bummed by the carpetbaggers that they rewrote the state constitution to spread the political power out between the governor and the lt. governor. Over the years, it has settled into the governor being the front man, the persuader, and the lt. governor being the back room arm-twister. Occasionally, you will have a governor that takes a stronger stance, as have both Bush and Perry, but the lt. governor will always be a major player.


Good point, and in many ways, it's not far off from what we have federally.

Whose Obama's point man on the whole budget mess? Biden

Cheney did Bush's dirty work and Gore did some of Clintons.

The president gets to be the good cop and the veep the bad cop.

Also explains why veeps are rarely elected in their own right.

[Recovering Republican]

Here's an interesting Perry vs. Obama story.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/05/obama-stop-texas-mexican-execution

President Barack Obama is attempting to block the execution in Texas on Thursday of a Mexican man because it would breach an international convention and do "irreparable harm" to US interests.

The White House has asked the US supreme court to put the execution of Humberto Leal Garcia on hold while Congress passes a law that would prevent the convicted rapist and murderer from being put to death along with dozens of other foreign nationals who were denied proper access to diplomatic representation before trials for capital crimes.

The administration moved after the governor of Texas, Rick Perry, brushed aside appeals from diplomats, top judges, senior military officers, the United Nations and former president George W Bush to stay Leal's execution because it could jeopardise American citizens arrested abroad as well as US diplomatic interests.

Leal, 38, was convicted in 1994 of the rape and murder of a 16-year-old girl in San Antonio. Few question that he was responsible for the killing but the Texas authorities failed to tell Leal, who was born in Mexico and has lived in the US since the age of two, that under the Vienna convention he was entitled to contact the Mexican consulate when he was arrested.

[tnetennba]

It's not a Perry vs. Obama story. It's a Texas vs. International Law story.

[Recovering Republican]

It's not a Perry vs. Obama story. It's a Texas vs. International Law story.


Now you see, guy, my attitude is,

Screw international law, this creep murdered a 16 year old girl. Screw the lethal injection, let's bring old sparky out of mothballs.

I was just commenting on the political aspects of it, tho. I don't think this is a fight Obama should really pick.

[tnetennba]

Obama's "fights" are determined by the law, not by gut instincts. Bush had the same position. You don't seem to understand that it's American tourists they are protecting.

[Recovering Republican]

Obama's "fights" are determined by the law, not by gut instincts. Bush had the same position. You don't seem to understand that it's American tourists they are protecting.


I thought Bush kow-towed to Mexico too much, too.

Sorry, this clown raped and killled a 16 year old girl. There is no doubt of that. If an American tourist raped and killed a 16 year old girl, I wouldn't have any problem with that country dealing with him harshly, either.

[Chronos]

So, if you were in Mexico, and the local officials decided to arrest you for rape and murder, and you were brought to trial without being allowed to contact the American embassy, and you were convicted, you'd be OK with that?

You say there's "no doubt" of his guilt, but there's doubt for anyone convicted in a court system that has no problem with attorneys sleeping through a trial, or with executing someone where the only evidence was a single eyewitness. Hell, if I were in Texas and accused of something, I'd want to get non-Texas legal systems involved, too.

[Voyager]

I thought Bush kow-towed to Mexico too much, too.

Sorry, this clown raped and killled a 16 year old girl. There is no doubt of that. If an American tourist raped and killed a 16 year old girl, I wouldn't have any problem with that country dealing with him harshly, either.

When they refused him access, he hadn't been convicted yet. Does presumption of innocence mean anything to you at all? Or are you one of the verdict first, then the trial types?

Plus, this being Texas, if a jury convicted someone for a murder I saw with my own eyes, I'd go under hypnosis to find out what really happened.

[tnetennba]

Does presumption of innocence mean anything to you at all?

Elsewhere he calls it a "fallacy."

[Recovering Republican]

When they refused him access, he hadn't been convicted yet. Does presumption of innocence mean anything to you at all? Or are you one of the verdict first, then the trial types?

Plus, this being Texas, if a jury convicted someone for a murder I saw with my own eyes, I'd go under hypnosis to find out what really happened.


Well, in this particular case, the guy confessed when he was caught, a trial found him guilty, and the only issue is that the authorities didn't let him talk to the Mexican Conselate.

Fry him.

[Recovering Republican]

So, if you were in Mexico, and the local officials decided to arrest you for rape and murder, and you were brought to trial without being allowed to contact the American embassy, and you were convicted, you'd be OK with that?

You say there's "no doubt" of his guilt, but there's doubt for anyone convicted in a court system that has no problem with attorneys sleeping through a trial, or with executing someone where the only evidence was a single eyewitness. Hell, if I were in Texas and accused of something, I'd want to get non-Texas legal systems involved, too.


You know what, guy, I've heard you guys carping about the Texas system for years now, but you know what you've yet to produce? A single case where a guy had been executed and didn't have it coming.

So why do you guys hate Texas so much?

[tnetennba]

You know what, guy, I've heard you guys carping about the Texas system for years now, but you know what you've yet to produce? A single case where a guy had been executed and didn't have it coming

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barry-scheck/innocent-but-executed_b_272327.html
http://www.texasobserver.org/cover-story/texas-observer-exclusive-dna-tests-undermine-evidence-in-texas-execution
http://listverse.com/2010/01/12/10-convicts-presumed-innocent-after-execution/

[scabpicker]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barry-scheck/innocent-but-executed_b_272327.html
http://www.texasobserver.org/cover-story/texas-observer-exclusive-dna-tests-undermine-evidence-in-texas-execution
http://listverse.com/2010/01/12/10-convicts-presumed-innocent-after-execution/

This should cover it. If not, the most famous case of people almost being killed by a miscarriage of justice in Texas is Randall Dale Adams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randall_Dale_Adams). You might have heard of him, there's an award winning film about it. He was completely innocent, as in he wasn't even at the scene when it happened. He didn't actually get electrocuted, but he got within 72 hours of it, which is close enough for me. If the Texas system had been able to run its course in isolation, he'd be dead, but Supreme Court Justice Lewis F. Powell Jr. intervened. Even after Justice Powell's intervention, he was still sentenced to life in prison (FUCK YOU, Bill Clements). He was recently able to die of old age, out of prison. This was partly due to the movie, and partly due to the actual killer finally admitting to the killing. After both of these events, he was finally granted a new trial, which the new prosecutor wisely decided not to prosecute. If after knowing his story you still have faith in Texas killing people as a punishment, you're not worth arguing with on any subject.

[Recovering Republican]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barry-scheck/innocent-but-executed_b_272327.html
http://www.texasobserver.org/cover-story/texas-observer-exclusive-dna-tests-undermine-evidence-in-texas-execution
http://listverse.com/2010/01/12/10-convicts-presumed-innocent-after-execution/


As usuall, the typical Left wing "Well, I've got bunch of claims that were never brought out in trial."

Let's take the case of Cameron Todd Willingham, since that seems to be a favorite..

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/state/headlines/20101006-Ex-wife-says-Cameron-Todd-Willingham-6640.ece

"AUSTIN, Texas - The ex-wife of the Texas man executed for setting fire to their home and killing their three daughters tearfully reiterated her contention Wednesday that he confessed his guilt to her.

Stacy Kuykendall read a prepared statement to reporters outside the Travis County courthouse. She told reporters that Cameron Todd Willingham set the fire that killed the girls "and watched while their tiny bodies burned."

A hearing is scheduled for later Wednesday in which a judge has been asked to clear Willingham's name based on allegedly faulty evidence of arson.

"My ex-husband murdered my daughters, and just before he was executed, he told me he did it," Kuykendall said.

Kuykendall voice began quavering early in her statement, as she noted her oldest daughter would be 21 and her twins would be 19. "I think about my girls every day and I miss them," she said."

[Recovering Republican]

This should cover it. If not, the most famous case of people almost being killed by a miscarriage of justice in Texas is Randall Dale Adams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randall_Dale_Adams). You might have heard of him, there's an award winning film about it. He was completely innocent, as in he wasn't even at the scene when it happened. He didn't actually get electrocuted, but he got within 72 hours of it, which is close enough for me. If the Texas system had been able to run its course in isolation, he'd be dead, but Supreme Court Justice Lewis F. Powell Jr. intervened. Even after Justice Powell's intervention, he was still sentenced to life in prison (FUCK YOU, Bill Clements). He was recently able to die of old age, out of prison. This was partly due to the movie, and partly due to the actual killer finally admitting to the killing. After both of these events, he was finally granted a new trial, which the new prosecutor wisely decided not to prosecute. If after knowing his story you still have faith in Texas killing people as a punishment, you're not worth arguing with on any subject.

We are not talking about the "almosts", we are talking about guys actually executed here. I could drill down into Treberana's post and find his other claims as dubious as Willingham.

Of course, if people are being sent to death row and then being released due to very thorough reviews, then by contrast, you would have to assume people who get life sentences are also being convicted on dubious evidence and no one ever looks at their cases a second time.

my own thought is we should get rid of the DP because it's become ridiculously expensive to extinguish a dirtbag. But if Obama wants to run against Perry on the "well, he executed people" platform, I don't think he's going to make much traction on that.

[tnetennba]

We are not talking about the "almosts", we are talking about guys actually executed here. I could drill down into Treberana's post and find his other claims as dubious as Willingham.

#2 http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=615311

Of course, if people are being sent to death row and then being released due to very thorough reviews, then by contrast, you would have to assume people who get life sentences are also being convicted on dubious evidence and no one ever looks at their cases a second time.

#4 http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=615311

my own thought is we should get rid of the DP because it's become ridiculously expensive to extinguish a dirtbag. But if Obama wants to run against Perry on the "well, he executed people" platform, I don't think he's going to make much traction on that.

Obama isn't "running against" Perry. He's already president. Perry isn't even running against Obama.

Even if Perry does run, nobody except you has suggested that a willingness to violate international law in a zeal to execute Mexicans will charm the American public. Surely, hateful racists will love him for it, but hateful racists already vote Republican.

[Recovering Republican]

Obama isn't "running against" Perry. He's already president. Perry isn't even running against Obama.

Even if Perry does run, nobody except you has suggested that a willingness to violate international law in a zeal to execute Mexicans will charm the American public. Surely, hateful racists will love him for it, but hateful racists already vote Republican.

Guy, most Americans support capital punishment. Check in with Mike Dukakis on how well the 'principled' stance works out.

We aren't talking about executing a Mexican. We are talking about executing a rapist and murderer who confessed to what he did. He got a fair trial under our system and 12 Americans decided that he should pay the ulitmate penalty for his crime.

[tnetennba]

#5. You know the link by now.

[Recovering Republican]

#5. You know the link by now.

Yes, that you have nothing to add is duly noted..

[tnetennba]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc2o8ywKqos

[Recovering Republican]

Wow, guy, I'm really sorry I hurt your feelings.

[RTFirefly]

So are unions that insist on closing the plant instead of making concessions. Care to bring a cite for the most recent time that's actually happened in the U.S.?

A recent online acquaintance and co-blogger is a labor lawyer. His life is all about concessions these days. In his day job, the issue under negotiation is never whether to make concessions or not; it's how large or small the concessions should be.

So please link to a recent instance of a labor union forcing a plant closure by their refusal to make any concessions. As Ross Perot used to say, I'm all ears.

[Finagle]

Smoke and mirrors in the Texas budget process. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/health-care/texas-lawmakers-fail-to-solve-big-budget-problems-punt-tough-decisions-down-the-road/2011/06/24/AGbSTWjH_story_1.html)

Perry is apparently screwing Texas big-time in his attempt to make himself look good for a potential Presidential run. Basically Texas is living the dream of balancing the budget solely through spending cuts (education, state agencies) and no tax increases. But much of it is (fully acknowledged) accounting tricks, for example, moving a 2 billion dollar payment back by one day in order to push it into the next fiscal year and ignoring Medicaid. So while Perry can claim to have left the state's Rainy Day fund untouched, in reality it's going to be fully committed for obligations pushed into the 2013 budget year.

[Chronos]

As usuall, the typical Left wing "Well, I've got bunch of claims that were never brought out in trial." In other words, what you're looking for is people who were found guilty in court and were executed, but who were found not guilty in court. Is that right?

Of course we're using things that were never found in the trials. That's exactly what the problem is-- They should have been, but weren't.

[scabpicker]

We are not talking about the "almosts", we are talking about guys actually executed here. I could drill down into Treberana's post and find his other claims as dubious as Willingham.

Of course, if people are being sent to death row and then being released due to very thorough reviews, then by contrast, you would have to assume people who get life sentences are also being convicted on dubious evidence and no one ever looks at their cases a second time.

my own thought is we should get rid of the DP because it's become ridiculously expensive to extinguish a dirtbag. But if Obama wants to run against Perry on the "well, he executed people" platform, I don't think he's going to make much traction on that.

Yeah, you're worthless to debate against. If your retort is "well, the folks who have life in prison might be innocent, too", there's just no point. Getting his sentence commuted to life in prison is what allowed Adams' life to be saved (as in not wasting away in jail for a crime he had nothing to do with), and that didn't happen due to the Texas justice system. He came close enough to dying for me.

As far as Willingham's wife's statement goes, hearsay isn't allowed in court for very good reasons. His wife has lots of emotional reasons to lie.

If you reply, it'll be for the benefit of your fingers. I won't be reading it.

[Recovering Republican]

In other words, what you're looking for is people who were found guilty in court and were executed, but who were found not guilty in court. Is that right?

Of course we're using things that were never found in the trials. That's exactly what the problem is-- They should have been, but weren't.

Or they weren't actually there...

As far as Willingham's wife's statement goes, hearsay isn't allowed in court for very good reasons. His wife has lots of emotional reasons to lie.

Like what? Seriously, what emotional reason would she have to lie about it?

on the other hand, Willingham didn't present arson evidence at his trial because the expert he hired had come to the same conclusion the state's did- it was arson. It was only these guys who came in after the fact, who probably never saw the original site, who said, "Hey, maybe it wasn't arson."

[Recovering Republican]

Oh well...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43665986/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

"Texas executed a Mexican citizen Thursday for the rape-slaying of a teenager after he and the White House pleaded in vain for a Supreme Court stay, saying he was denied help from his home country that could have helped him avoid the death penalty.

In his last minutes, Humberto Leal repeatedly said he was sorry and accepted responsibility.

"I have hurt a lot of people. ... I take full blame for everything. I am sorry for what I did," he said in the death chamber.

"One more thing," he said as the drugs began taking effect. Then he shouted twice, "Viva Mexico!"

[Really Not All That Bright]

When they refused him access, he hadn't been convicted yet. Does presumption of innocence mean anything to you at all? Or are you one of the verdict first, then the trial types?
That's a bit much. Based on my (admittedly scant) knowledge of the story, they didn't refuse him access; they just didn't tell him he was entitled to it. That's not quite the same thing as a Miranda warning.

[Koxinga]

I wish there were a thread about whether Rick Perry intends to jump into the race. In hopes it may some day come about, I thought I'd note that the governor is now recovering from back surgery (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1024&bih=626&q=rick+perry+back+surgery&aq=1&aqi=g2g-b2&aql=&oq=rick+perry+back) that had been scheduled several months in advance. Getting that out of the way may be the final hurdle, and possibly one of the reasons he's waited until now.

[Recovering Republican]

http://conhomeusa.typepad.com/therepublican/2011/07/rick-perry-anti-obama.html

Politico's report today that Rick Perry is actively calling Iowans to assess his chances in the run-up to the Ames poll comes at an amazing moment for the Texas Governor: he has become the leading anti-Obama candidate (if he runs).

What Pete Wehner has summarized as the bleak/horrible/awful/God-awful/dismal/terrible/absolutely flat out terrible jobs report this week may be the biggest blow yet to Obama's presidency.

snip

Enter Rick Perry. His state created more than half of all new jobs in America in the past decade and 37 percent of new jobs since the recession.

Obama is the anti-jobs President. Rick Perry, if he gets into the race, is the pro-jobs candidate. And that makes him the anti-Obama candidate in a way that the others cannot be.

But only Perry can stand toe-to-toe with Obama on the issue of jobs and claim that, unlike the President, he knows what it means to preside over an energized, productive economy.

Plus, with Texas's economy about the size of Russia's, Perry has the magnitude of his accomplishment on his side: simply put, Texas is just plain big, and its getting bigger by any measure - population, GDP, you name it. Only California is bigger as a state, and yet the Golden State is trending downward by just about every measure. Texas stands alone as a mega-state whose economy is a model for the nation.

If Perry enters the race now, the expectations for him in the Ames poll will be fairly low, meaning that he stands a lot to gain. He would likely have a top three finish unless he does something disastrous or embarrassing between now and then.

All signs suggest he's getting in. If he does, he will quickly scramble the polls and give both Romney and Bachmann a few things to worry about. And that will be because he will give voters something to be hopeful about: executive leadership that knows something about opportunity, growth, and jobs

[Recovering Republican]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9dUMJyzjtA

Rick Perry's speech to the Republican Leadership Conference in New Orleans last month.

I think I found the guy I'm supporting. I'll be in the car.

[Steve MB]

The Friends That Rick Perry Keeps (http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2011/07/the_friends_that_rick_perry_ke.php)

Right Wing Watch has done an excellent job of going through all of the various co-sponsors and endorses of Rick Perry's prayer rally next month in Houston and pointing out (http://www.rightwingwatch.org/category/subjects/-response-prayer-rally) all the crazy things they've said. A lot of them are wingnuts that I'm familiar with saying the same old stupid things, but the example of C. Peter Wagner (http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/company-rick-perry-keeps-peter-wagner-sex-demons) caught my eye. This is an unusually creative bit of wingnuttia that is rather amusing to read.

Wagner blames the earthquake in Japan on that country being "pagan" but he has a particularly fascinating explanation for how this happened. The Japanese emperor, you see, had sex with a demon....

Methinks C. Peter Wagner has been watching too much hentai.

[Bridget Burke]

The Texas Observer also has a piece on Perry's Praying Pals (https://www.texasobserver.org/cover-story/rick-perrys-army-of-god).

On September 28, 2009, at 1:40 p.m., God’s messengers visited Rick Perry.

On this day, the Lord’s messengers arrived in the form of two Texas pastors, Tom Schlueter of Arlington and Bob Long of San Marcos, who called on Perry in the governor’s office inside the state Capitol. Schlueter and Long both oversee small congregations, but they are more than just pastors. They consider themselves modern-day apostles and prophets, blessed with the same gifts as Old Testament prophets or New Testament apostles.

The pastors told Perry of God’s grand plan for Texas. A chain of powerful prophecies had proclaimed that Texas was “The Prophet State,” anointed by God to lead the United States into revival and Godly government. And the governor would have a special role.

Is Freemasonray really a "demonic stronghold"? Is the Democratic party commanded by Jezebel? Really, these nutcases make me miss the Southern Baptists.

Look for Perry to announce his candidacy at The Response (http://theresponseusa.com/), the August 6th day of Prayer & Fasting at Houston's Reliant Stadium. (Damn, why couldn't he throw his Prayerapalooza in an area where his voters actually live. Which means out of the cities.)

[Merijeek]

I'd love to see their bank accounts.

-Joe

[RTFirefly]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9dUMJyzjtA

Rick Perry's speech to the Republican Leadership Conference in New Orleans last month.

I think I found the guy I'm supporting. I'll be in the car.I confess I'm just drooling at the thought of the GOP nominating this nutcase. Drooling, I tell ya. (http://www.rightwingwatch.org/category/subjects/-response-prayer-rally) Because he has sought out and welcomed the nuttiest of the religious nuts for his "The Response" rally three weeks from now, from the official organizers - the American Family Association, whose top guys do things like (http://www.texastribune.org/texas-people/rick-perry/video-perry-invites-public-to-the-response/) blaming the Holocaust on gays, and say that social welfare programs made African-American women want to “rut like rabbits," to other official endorsers like John Benefiel of the Heartland Apostolic Prayer Network (http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/rick-perry-partners-apostle-who-thinks-statue-liberty-demonic-idol), who thinks the Statue of Liberty is a “demonic idol” that represents a “false goddess.”

"Why does Rick Perry associate with people who hate the Statue of Liberty?" This stuff just writes itself. :)

[Recovering Republican]

I confess I'm just drooling at the thought of the GOP nominating this nutcase. Drooling, I tell ya. (http://www.rightwingwatch.org/category/subjects/-response-prayer-rally) Because he has sought out and welcomed the nuttiest of the religious nuts for his "The Response" rally three weeks from now, from the official organizers - the American Family Association, whose top guys do things like (http://www.texastribune.org/texas-people/rick-perry/video-perry-invites-public-to-the-response/) blaming the Holocaust on gays, and say that social welfare programs made African-American women want to “rut like rabbits," to other official endorsers like John Benefiel of the Heartland Apostolic Prayer Network (http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/rick-perry-partners-apostle-who-thinks-statue-liberty-demonic-idol), who thinks the Statue of Liberty is a “demonic idol” that represents a “false goddess.”

"Why does Rick Perry associate with people who hate the Statue of Liberty?" This stuff just writes itself. :)

Guy, "The One" sat in Jeremiah Wright's church for 20 years listening to him say such things as “We bombed Hiroshima. We bombed Nagasaki. And we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon and we never batted an eye.” and "“The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied.”

so the guilt by association thing probably isn't a card you all want to play.

[Jack Batty]

Yes, but Perry is guilty of associating with himself. It's hard to shake off something like that.

[Bridget Burke]

Guy, "The One" sat in Jeremiah Wright's church for 20 years listening to him say such things as “We bombed Hiroshima. We bombed Nagasaki. And we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon and we never batted an eye.” and "“The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied.”

so the guilt by association thing probably isn't a card you all want to play.

That was then & this is now. It didn't work against Obama because most of us realized he's sane, even if that one preacher said some weird shit. Perry's helpers (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/43758839/ns/politics-more_politics/) in his Prayerapalooza?

Among The Response endorsers listed on its website are Pastor John Hagee of the Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, Texas, who has said God sent Hitler to hunt Jews so they would return to Israel, and Mike Bickle, director of the International House of Prayer in Kansas City, Mo., who has called Oprah Winfrey the harbinger of the anti-Christ.

There's a suit to stop it--Perry will be glad to show everybody the holes those nails made--but I hope it continues & the country gets a good look at the crazy. This is not some little prayer meeting--they've rented Reliant Stadium. Where the last embarrassing event involved Janet Jackson. (Although Texans' fans assure me there have been many fiascos under that roof.)

[RTFirefly]

Guy, "The One" sat in Jeremiah Wright's church for 20 years This forum is titled, "Elections."

Given that Jeremiah Wright wasn't an issue in 2008 despite much publicity, it's going to be damned hard to make him an issue in 2012, no matter what hook there might be to hang it on. Very much yesterday's news.

[Recovering Republican]

This forum is titled, "Elections."

Given that Jeremiah Wright wasn't an issue in 2008 despite much publicity, it's going to be damned hard to make him an issue in 2012, no matter what hook there might be to hang it on. Very much yesterday's news.


Well, gee, I don't know, you guys tried to drag up the National Guard thing on Bush in 2004 even though voters rejected your whining about it in 2000.

The MSM didn't do its job vetting this guy in 2008. Or 2004 when he ran for senator, they were too busy sniffing Jeri Ryan's panties. If you guys start attacking Perry's associations, there's a whole bunch of sleazy characters in Obama's past we can talk about. Wright. Tony Rezko. Rod Blago.

And it's going to backfire on you. The problem is, most of you people are secularists who have a condescending view towards religion. Heck, so do I, for that matter. The scariest thing for your side is that most Americans are pretty religious, and you guys all want to be praised by Bill Maher.

[Recovering Republican]

That was then & this is now. It didn't work against Obama because most of us realized he's sane, even if that one preacher said some weird shit. Perry's helpers (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/43758839/ns/politics-more_politics/) in his Prayerapalooza?

There's a suit to stop it--Perry will be glad to show everybody the holes those nails made--but I hope it continues & the country gets a good look at the crazy. This is not some little prayer meeting--they've rented Reliant Stadium. Where the last embarrassing event involved Janet Jackson. (Although Texans' fans assure me there have been many fiascos under that roof.)

Actually, most people didn't hear the worst stuff Wright said, and McCain wrongly told his people not to make an issue of it. (Another of th 1000 tactical mistakes this guy made.)

Most Americans are less worried about some strange belief that a religion might have- after all, Romney is currently the GOP frontrunner, and his religious beliefs are completely insane - and more worried about the economy, the debt and everything else.

Now, for the record, I'm an agnostic. I find the very notion of Christianity kind of silly. So telling me religion X is worse than religion Y because to my mind, they are all illogical. But most Americans see the Democrats as secularists who are attacking all religion, trying to drive it out of the public square, and frankly, when you sue to stop prayer meetings, you guys come off as the extremists.

[Bridget Burke]

Well, gee, I don't know, you guys tried to drag up the National Guard thing on Bush in 2004 even though voters rejected your whining about it in 2000.

The MSM didn't do its job vetting this guy in 2008. Or 2004 when he ran for senator, they were too busy sniffing Jeri Ryan's panties. If you guys start attacking Perry's associations, there's a whole bunch of sleazy characters in Obama's past we can talk about. Wright. Tony Rezko. Rod Blago.

And it's going to backfire on you. The problem is, most of you people are secularists who have a condescending view towards religion. Heck, so do I, for that matter. The scariest thing for your side is that most Americans are pretty religious, and you guys all want to be praised by Bill Maher.

I've never cared for Bill Maher. Do you actually know any Democrats?

Perry's Prayerapalooza is not his past--it's his present. And probably his future--will he use the pulpit to announce his candidacy for president of the country he wanted to secede from a few months ago?

Watch this (http://theresponseusa.com/) again & tell us how much you love Governor Goodhair. I don't want the thing cancelled--I want lots of publicity.

It's not just a Christians Only event. Some of the extremists sharing that pulpit (http://religionblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/07/rick-perry-and-the-megapastors.html) consider the Roman Catholic church the Whore of Babylon! Read some more about your hero's heroes (http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/07/07/rick_perry_prayer_pastors) & get on your knees.

[Chronos]

Now, for the record, I'm an agnostic. I find the very notion of Christianity kind of silly. So telling me religion X is worse than religion Y because to my mind, they are all illogical.Except for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, of course. They're more illogicaller.

[gonzomax]

You know what, guy, I've heard you guys carping about the Texas system for years now, but you know what you've yet to produce? A single case where a guy had been executed and didn't have it coming.

So why do you guys hate Texas so much?

http://www.innworldreport.net/inn/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3410:tests-confirm-texas-executed-innocent-man&catid=35:domestic&Itemid=1
Single case.

[Recovering Republican]

Except for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, of course. They're more illogicaller.


Well, yeah, when your religion is caught pretty much red-handed at the fraud as opposed the fraud maybe happening 2000 year ago or maybe it was just a metaphor.

I guess I have a problem with religions that were founded by guys whose primary goals were conning his friends and having sex with multiple teenage girls.

Scientology + 150 years = Mormonism.

[Recovering Republican]

http://www.innworldreport.net/inn/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3410:tests-confirm-texas-executed-innocent-man&catid=35:domestic&Itemid=1
Single case.


Do you actually READ these stories before you post them?

"Jones had insisted that he was waiting in the car when his accomplice killed Allen Hilzendager during a 1989 liquor store robbery."

So in short, he wasn't INNOCENT. He participated in the Crime.

[Recovering Republican]

I've never cared for Bill Maher. Do you actually know any Democrats?

Perry's Prayerapalooza is not his past--it's his present. And probably his future--will he use the pulpit to announce his candidacy for president of the country he wanted to secede from a few months ago?

Watch this (http://theresponseusa.com/) again & tell us how much you love Governor Goodhair. I don't want the thing cancelled--I want lots of publicity.

It's not just a Christians Only event. Some of the extremists sharing that pulpit (http://religionblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/07/rick-perry-and-the-megapastors.html) consider the Roman Catholic church the Whore of Babylon! Read some more about your hero's heroes (http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/07/07/rick_perry_prayer_pastors) & get on your knees.

Well, I looked at your video there, guess I can't get as upset about this as you are.

Reality is, 90% of Americans are religious. The main reason why the GOP has as much strength as it has, is because the Democrats are the ones siding with the ACLU and the Republicans are the ones siding with Jesus. That you want to pick out a couple of small actors in a larger event and say that is indicitive just shows desperation.

[Chronos]

Well, yeah, when your religion is caught pretty much red-handed at the fraud as opposed the fraud maybe happening 2000 year ago or maybe it was just a metaphor.

I guess I have a problem with religions that were founded by guys whose primary goals were conning his friends and having sex with multiple teenage girls.

Scientology + 150 years = Mormonism.Ah, gotcha, the fact that 150 years ago people in this country purported to own other people as property isn't relevant to the present day, because that was so long ago. But the fact that some charismatic religious dude wanted to boff multiple women 150 years ago is totally relevant.

[Recovering Republican]

Ah, gotcha, the fact that 150 years ago people in this country purported to own other people as property isn't relevant to the present day, because that was so long ago. But the fact that some charismatic religious dude wanted to boff multiple women 150 years ago is totally relevant.

Well, nice try, but honestly, that's kind of a sad argument. What happened 150 years isn't relelvent, but the fact that what was claimed has been disproven is.

We now know the Hebrews NEVER settled the Americas. (Incidently, Joseph Smith was not the first guy to come up with this, he plaragized it off some popular fiction at the time.) We now know that the "Book of Abraham" that Smith claimed to have translated as part of Mormon Scripture is in fact, a funery scroll from the Ptomelic dynasty. We know the Kinderhook Tablets he claimed to have translated were in fact fakes.

In short, he made a lot of claims that have been disproven.

Now, while you can say a lot of the bible is "disprovable", you can also argue that it is metaphor, or mistranslations, or whatever.

Smith doesn't get a pass. We know he was making it all up. And the fact Mormons still buy into what is unadulterated bullshit disqualifies them from any higher office.

[Jack Batty]

Now, while you can say a lot of the bible is "disprovable", you can also argue that it is metaphor, or mistranslations, or whatever.

Smith doesn't get a pass. We know he was making it all up. And the fact Mormons still buy into what is unadulterated bullshit disqualifies them from any higher office.


Ask your hero, Rick Perry, if he thinks the Bible is disprovable, or a metaphor, or mistranslated and see if his answers might also disqualify him from higher office.

Hint: if you think the answer is anything but, "BURN IN HELL FOR EVEN THINKING THAT, YOU HEREITIC!" ... you're wrong.

[RTFirefly]

Well, gee, I don't know, you guys tried to drag up the National Guard thing on Bush in 2004 even though voters rejected your whining about it in 2000. And you can see how much of a difference it made. Which proves my point.

The MSM didn't do its job vetting this guy in 2008. Or 2004 when he ran for senator, they were too busy sniffing Jeri Ryan's panties. If you guys start attacking Perry's associations, there's a whole bunch of sleazy characters in Obama's past we can talk about. Wright. Tony Rezko. Rod Blago. Well, yeah, whatever, and what does this have to do with anything?

Unless you're going to argue that somehow the stuff about Wright, Rezko, et al. is likely to make more of a difference to Obama's fortunes in 2012 than the TANG stuff did with Bush's in 2004, I don't see why you're even talking about this.

Feel free to make that argument, of course - I'm just pointing out that you haven't yet. And in the absence of any such argument, none of this bullshit is relevant to this discussion.

And it's going to backfire on you. The problem is, most of you people are secularists who have a condescending view towards religion. Heck, so do I, for that matter. Unlike you, even most secularists can tell the difference between run-of-the-mill Christianity and total fruitcakeness.

And making 'you people' generalizations about people you're debating is never a good idea. I'm a born-again Christian, and while last time I checked, the Bible still had a few pretty whacked-out passages, none of them concerned the Statue of Liberty. Even people who are pretty ignorant about their Bible will mostly pick up on this fact.

By the way, the whole 'if you libruls want to bring this stuff up, conservatives will bring up Wright and Rezko and all' meme is total bullshit. If the GOP thinks bringing up Wright and Rezko will help their cause, they'll go there whether or not the Dems bring up Perry's associations with religious fruitcakes.

[Recovering Republican]

RT- the only reason why the NG stuff didn't fly in 2004 was because your boy, Dan Rather, got caught trying to pass off fake documents as real ones. But the MSM gave it the old college try after John Kerry's past caught up with him.

Yes, I would hope that the 2004 nominee, whoever he or she is, will bring up all of Obama's sleazy friends in Illinois Politics. I'm not sure why McCain didn't, although I'm not sure about half the awful decisions McCain made. But if you all think you are going to get traction by attacking evangelicals in a country where there are millions of them, good luck with that.

[Chronos]

In other words, attacking someone's religion is a terrible idea, and folks should do it to Obama. Could you at least try to not contradict yourself within a single post?

[CaptMurdock]

Ask your hero, Rick Perry, if he thinks the Bible is disprovable, or a metaphor, or mistranslated and see if his answers might also disqualify him from higher office.

Hint: if you think the answer is anything but, "BURN IN HELL FOR EVEN THINKING THAT, YOU HEREITIC!" ... you're wrong.

A little-known movement of radical Christians and self-proclaimed prophets wants to infiltrate government, and Rick Perry might be their man. (http://www.texasobserver.org/cover-story/rick-perrys-army-of-god)

On this day, the Lord’s messengers arrived in the form of two Texas pastors, Tom Schlueter of Arlington and Bob Long of San Marcos, who called on Perry in the governor’s office inside the state Capitol. Schlueter and Long both oversee small congregations, but they are more than just pastors. They consider themselves modern-day apostles and prophets, blessed with the same gifts as Old Testament prophets or New Testament apostles.

If they simply professed unusual beliefs, movement leaders wouldn’t be remarkable. But what makes the New Apostolic Reformation movement so potent is its growing fascination with infiltrating politics and government. The new prophets and apostles believe Christians—certain Christians—are destined to not just take “dominion” over government, but stealthily climb to the commanding heights of what they term the “Seven Mountains” of society, including the media and the arts and entertainment world. They believe they’re intended to lord over it all. As a first step, they’re leading an “army of God” to commandeer civilian government.

Gee... think this is going to fly well with the moderates and independents?

[RTFirefly]

your boy, Dan RatherI gather you're either from that alternate universe where the mainstream media are actually liberal, or you're taking some powerful mind-altering substances in this one.

Yes, I would hope that the 2004 nominee, whoever he or she is, will bring up all of Obama's sleazy friends in Illinois Politics. And best of luck with the time travel experiment!

[Bridget Burke]

The Austin Statesman (http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/politics/entries/2011/07/21/perry_prayer_event_drops_link.html?cxntfid=blogs_postcards) has been keeping an eye on Ricky Boy's Prayerapalooza webpage. Names of the less sane endorsers have been removed from public scrutiny. (But not from the caches.)

Guess he's been listening to some of the complaints about the fools who do not speak for most Christians. Will they appear at the event to preach & pray & fast & anoint him & gird his loins for the struggle? (His plan: Turn everything over to God & let Him solve our problems. Guess he doesn't believe in the One who Helps Those Who Help Themselves.) Some of the erased:

John Hagee, pastor of Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, whose controversial statements prompted GOP presidential candidate John McCain to reject his endorsement in 2008. McCain took exception to Hagee saying that God sent Adolph Hitler to persecute the Jews so Israel could be created. Hagee also compared the Catholic Church to the anti-Christ and said Hurricane Katrina was punishment for New Orleans’ sinful ways.

John Benefiel of the Heartland Apostolic Prayer Network in Oklahoma City, who has called the Statue of Liberty a demonic idol.

C. Peter Wagner of Global Spheres Inc. in Colorado, who said Japan was decimated by an earthquake and tsunami because its emperor engages in ritualistic sexual intercourse with the pagan Sun Goddess.

[Kolga]

If only Rick Perry would listen (http://www.theonion.com/articles/god-urges-rick-perry-not-to-run-for-president,20981/).

[Recovering Republican]

In other words, attacking someone's religion is a terrible idea, and folks should do it to Obama. Could you at least try to not contradict yourself within a single post?


Hey, if your religion is "America is a bunch of evil white crackers who are poisioning black folk", maybe people ought to know about that. But the MSM buried that pretty quickly, didn't they?

Hey, but let's have it out. You can talk about Rick Perry's friends, who are actually believe pretty mainstream Christian stuff, and we can talk about Obama's pals.

[Recovering Republican]

I gather you're either from that alternate universe where the mainstream media are actually liberal, or you're taking some powerful mind-altering substances in this one.



Well, let's look at that one.

Dan Rather was Sooooooo convinced Bush had done something untowards as a guardsman he spent FIVE YEARS investigating the story. Five years. His own words.

Did anyone spend five years investigating Obama's radical pals?

Except after 5 years, he couldn't find one document or one person who served with Bush who would support his contentions.

Then along comes Colonel Burkett, who was pretty much thrown out of the Texas Guard for being nuts, and he comes along with these documents that are just too good to be true. Does Danny boy take them to an authenticator or an expert in military documentation or even ask the family of the man who supposedly wrote them?

Nope!

He just runs them as authentic "proof" that Bush wasn't a committed member of the national guard.

Now compare that to how the Media treated the Swift Boat Vets. These guys could prove they were in Vietnam with Kerry. And they had a whole raft of ugly stories to tell that indicated this guy was gaming the system. the Media did everything they could to attack these guys.

[tnetennba]

I thought this thread was about Rick Perry.

[Bridget Burke]

RR had realized that, no matter Obama's problems, none of the Republican possibilities has much to offer. Governor Ricky caught his eye & he was convinced there was one Great White Hope remaining. Has he actually come up with serious quotations from His Boy to prove his electability? Nope.

We all got caught up with the upcoming Prayerapalooza. Reporters have been sifting through the beliefs of Rick's allies in the event & have discovered quite a few things that almost no Christians really believe. Alas, Perry is now trying to distance himself (http://www.texasobserver.org/forrestforthetrees/is-rick-perry-getting-cold-feet-over-theresponse)from the more extreme nutcases.

You've gotta wonder if Rick Perry may come to regret "initiating" The Response, his Christians-only prayer rally. As I documented in a cover story for the Observer, Perry has thrown in with a strange band of fundamentalists from the bleeding edge of American Christianity.....

I appreciate anyone who’s going to endorse me, whether it’s on The Response or whether it’s on a potential run for the presidency of the United States,” he said on Monday, reported the Dallas Morning-News. “Just because you endorse me doesn’t mean I endorse everything that you say or do.”

The problem is that Perry initiated this event and then put particular people in charge of organizing the event, including, for example, Alice Patterson, a "church mobilizer." Patterson wrote in her book that the Democratic Party is controlled by Jezebel and that single women under 60 should be denied all aide from the church and the government and "should return to the home of her parents with the object of getting married."

The Day of Prayer & Fasting might turn out to be a really boring story if Perry manages to muzzle the more "colorful" characters. We'll find out soon--in the future. Why all this talk about stories from the past? Everybody knows that Shrub got a preferential appointment to TANG but skipped out on a lot of his meetings; but that was years ago.

Let's see if RR can find real reasons for liking Perry. Preferably linked to actual actions of the guy.

[Recovering Republican]

Let's see if RR can find real reasons for liking Perry. Preferably linked to actual actions of the guy.

Okay, let's start with this.

Has created 40% of the new jobs in this country, while Obama still has a 9.2%

Has balanced Texas' budget, while Obama has run up 4 TRILLION in new debt and is threatening to destroy the economy if he can't run up more and raise taxes.

Is tough on law and order.

[Chronos]

Pro tip: Finding a new way to borrow money is not the same thing as balancing a budget.

And Texas is notoriously lax on law and order. If you commit a crime in Texas, all you have to do is lay low and wait for them to execute some random schmuck for it, and you're scott-free.

[magellan01]

All this comparing this or that candidate to Obama is a waste of time. Obama had his shot. He fucked up. Next. I can't imagine a person I wouldn't vote for over Obama at this point. I din't vote for him in '08, but I was quite optimistic. I think he's a smart guy, just over his head in this particular job. I'd love it if Hillary decided to run against him. HA! That would be genius.

[Onomatopoeia]

All this comparing this or that candidate to Obama is a waste of time. Obama had his shot. He fucked up. Next. I can't imagine a person I wouldn't vote for over Obama at this point. I din't vote for him in '08, but I was quite optimistic. I think he's a smart guy, just over his head in this particular job. I'd love it if Hillary decided to run against him. HA! That would be genius.I wouldn't say that he screwed up; he certainly compromised too bloody much, but that's not really the same thing. I think he has done, let's say, not horribly, with the hand he was dealt. I'd give him a C+ for his first term. I doubt any other Democratic president who was as blindly and, in my opinion, naively committed to bipartisanship as Obama "was" would have done much better under the same circumstances. That said, there's hope for his second term.

[Recovering Republican]

Pro tip: Finding a new way to borrow money is not the same thing as balancing a budget.

And Texas is notoriously lax on law and order. If you commit a crime in Texas, all you have to do is lay low and wait for them to execute some random schmuck for it, and you're scott-free.


Right... because you've proven how many cases of that actually happening.

Texas actually executes their criminals... good for them.

[magellan01]

I wouldn't say that he screwed up; he certainly compromised too bloody much, but that's not really the same thing. I think he has done, let's say, not horribly, with the hand he was dealt. I'd give him a C+ for his first term. I doubt any other Democratic president who was as blindly and, in my opinion, naively committed to bipartisanship as Obama "was" would have done much better under the same circumstances. That said, there's hope for his second term.

He gambled. The economy was the #1 priority, he spent his time and effort on health care. He gambled he could fix both. He lost. And his health care fix might not even be a fix after it gets to the SCOTUS. To hell with him.

[Chronos]

All this comparing this or that candidate to Obama is a waste of time. Obama had his shot. He fucked up. Next. I can't imagine a person I wouldn't vote for over Obama at this point. I din't vote for him in '08, but I was quite optimistic. I think he's a smart guy, just over his head in this particular job. I'd love it if Hillary decided to run against him. HA! That would be genius. And yet, what you're doing there is comparing other candidates to Obama.

[CaptMurdock]

I can't imagine a person I wouldn't vote for over Obama at this point.

While I can certainly imagine finding a candidate (yes, even a Republican candidate) that I would vote for in lieu of Barack Obama, I can't stomach the thought of the current crop of the GOP's Special Ed Team.

See you in 2016.

[elucidator]

Right... because you've proven how many cases of that actually happening.

Texas actually executes their criminals... good for them.

Hell, that's just for warm-ups, every once in a while, they execute the totally innocent! Pour encourager les autres.

[Finagle]

Okay, let's start with this.

Has created 40% of the new jobs in this country, while Obama still has a 9.2%

Has balanced Texas' budget, while Obama has run up 4 TRILLION in new debt and is threatening to destroy the economy if he can't run up more and raise taxes.



Way back in post 131 of this thread, I posted about the way that Perry has balanced the Texas budget using bogus accounting tricks that just push problems into the next legislature session and will ultimately screw Texans badly. (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/07/06/261752/perry-budget-accounting-gimmicks/) But I guess you were too busy badmouthing Obama and participating in thread hijacks to pay attention.

But the "too long, didn't read" of the whole situation is that Perry's balanced budget is just for appearances sake to make him look good for a potential Presidential run. He's effectively committed the state's rainy day fund which will have to be used to pay for debts that he moved over into the next fiscal year (by delaying payments for a day).

In his time in office, Perry has doubled the Texas state debt.


This is the man who you're holding up as a paragon of economic virtue?

[Bridget Burke]

Right... because you've proven how many cases of that actually happening.

Texas actually executes their criminals... good for them.

Perry was not responsible for resuming the death penalty in Texas, although he's been enthusiastic about letting people get strapped down to die. Do you foresee President Perry encouraging the Feds to start killing their prisoners? Or decreeing that all states resume doing so--even if they don't want to? Or does the thought of official killing just make you tingly in your nethers? (Thinking back to the newsies creaming their jeans about Bush's well-fitted flight suit when he declared "Mission Accomplished." Although President Obama is the one who actually had Osama offed.)

Oh, that famous budget (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/07/13/267895/texas-debt-faster/) that slashed education & social programs?

For all his talk of fiscal conservationism on the national stage, Texas Gov. Rick Perry (R) hasn’t been so parsimonious at home, where his state is racking up debt at a faster rate than the national government and in greater amounts than most other states. Perry regularly attacks President Obama for engaging in “too much spending” and running up too much debt, but as the Fort Worth Star-Telegram’s Mitchell Schnurman writes today, Texas’ refusal to raise taxes has led to its own debt ballooning faster than Washington’s.

I'll be glad to read any well-sourced praise of Perry. Find some.

[ElvisL1ves]

Let's see if RR can find real reasons for liking Perry. One of them is that he thinks Perry believes dissolving the union would be a bad idea.

No, that isn't a joke.

[magellan01]

And yet, what you're doing there is comparing other candidates to Obama.

Yes, you caught me. I thought it was clear that I was talking about Republican candidates who may be running.

[magellan01]

While I can certainly imagine finding a candidate (yes, even a Republican candidate) that I would vote for in lieu of Barack Obama, I can't stomach the thought of the current crop of the GOP's Special Ed Team.

See you in 2016.

I guess good is the enemy of great. At this point I'd be happy to pick a name out of the phone book. After I omit all current members of congress.

[CaptMurdock]

I guess good is the enemy of great. At this point I'd be happy to pick a name out of the phone book. After I omit all current members of congress.

Oh, oh, better not get someone... inexperienced. :eek:

[Recovering Republican]

Way back in post 131 of this thread, I posted about the way that Perry has balanced the Texas budget using bogus accounting tricks that just push problems into the next legislature session and will ultimately screw Texans badly. (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/07/06/261752/perry-budget-accounting-gimmicks/) But I guess you were too busy badmouthing Obama and participating in thread hijacks to pay attention.

?

Nah, man, I don't pay any attention to anything you say at this point...

Bridget Burke

Oh, that famous budget that slashed education & social programs?



You talk like that's a bad thing. Two biggest ways government wastes money- Public "Education" and paying welfare people to stay home and make babies. We should get the government out of both of those businesses.

[Recovering Republican]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/07/25/rick_perry_eyes_late_august_campaign_launch_110695.html

Potential donors to Perry's presidential effort met Tuesday in Austin, and those familiar with what transpired there told RealClearPolitics that key players in Perry's orbit indicated the 61-year-old Republican will announce a campaign between Aug. 15 and Aug. 31. Perry himself said on Friday that he'll at least make his intentions known within the next three to four weeks.

In the past month Perry's team has moved swiftly to put the parts in place for a campaign.

Although Perry always has had a large advance staff because of Texas' size, several low-level staffers on Capitol Hill who have experience doing advance work have departed conspicuously for the Lone Star State in recent weeks.

While Perry has focused on determining whether he can raise the funds necessary to launch a credible campaign, his strategists have begun locking down verbal commitments from vendors and other potential top staff who would fill out a campaign organization. One who was contacted about a senior staff position was told, "This is a 99 percent sure thing." Another said he was told, "He is 100 percent in." That wouldn't seem to leave much in the way of margin of error, but a third vendor who was approached said that while Perry's political circle is lining up a staff, they are doing so without knowing what Perry's final call will be.




AWESOME!!!!

[Merijeek]

Oh, oh, better not get someone... inexperienced. :eek:

Teabag till it hurts (or at least chafes!), baby!

-Joe

[CaptMurdock]

Teabag till it hurts (or at least chafes!), baby!

-Joe

I prefer sun tea, but thanks for asking!

[elucidator]

Must it always be Texas? There's plenty of crazy in Arizona, for instance. Of course, its a dry crazy....

[Chronos]

Two biggest ways government wastes money- Public "Education" and paying welfare people to stay home and make babies.You appear to have confused "big" and "small". You could fit the entire Department of Education into the waste in the Department of War with so much room left over that nobody would ever notice the difference.

[magellan01]

Oh, oh, better not get someone... inexperienced. :eek:

More important to get someone who believes in capitalism, without the distracting redistribute-the-wealth thing. The latter kinda undoes the former.

[magellan01]

Must it always be Texas? There's plenty of crazy in Arizona, for instance. Of course, its a dry crazy....

Actually, a nice one. Though would have been better with Florida instead of Texas, as most of the heat in Texas is a dry heat. But there is Houston, so there may be hope for you yet...

[Zakalwe]

Actually, a nice one. Though would have been better with Florida instead of Texas, as most of the heat in Texas is a dry heat. But there is Houston, so there may be hope for you yet...Hey! Florida first. For now, we're keeping all our crazy right here at home. It's tourist season, ya know. You want to see our crazy, you come down here and see it...

[BrassyPhrase]

I wish Molly were still here, and I didn't see this quote here, which I believe references the Shrub.

" Next time I tell you someone from Texas should not be president of the United States, please pay attention."

[CaptMurdock]

More important to get someone who believes in capitalism, without the distracting redistribute-the-wealth thing. The latter kinda undoes the former.

Oh, that reminds me: the 1880's called. They're not in town anymore, so any cheerleaders for robber-baron capitalism that are left can find a new job.

[Bridget Burke]

Lots of Texans have been making notes on Perry's antics (http://www.burntorangereport.com/diary/11265/perry-america-needs-me)--even if they don't have Molly's way with words.

When he announces his candidacy in the next two or three weeks, Perry will turn the volume up on the Myth of Texas Economy. It's crucial that we, as Texas progressives, match Tricky Rick's lies with the truth. To do this, we must equip ourselves with the facts about our state's economy.

Perry says he's a fiscal conservative, and he's even criticized George W. Bush for excess spending as Texas governor. In reality, Perry's a big-spending neoconservative, just like his predecessor. "[T]he size of the Texas budget had consistently grown during Perry's time as governor, with total spending rising faster than inflation and population growth," the Fort Worth Star-Telegram reported this weekend.

Perry says that under his leadership, Texas has put a low burden on business. False. Dale Craymer, president of the Texas Taxpayers and Research Association, met earlier this year with a delegation of California lawmakers looking to learn from Texas policymakers. "Texas is not a low tax state for businesses because we rely so much on property and sales taxes," Craymer said. "The California delegation was kind of in shock. Our tax numbers are not that much different.".....

So, what has Perry done? He took a growing state and did everything he could to make sure we lose that growth. All the while, he's gallivanted across the country lying about Texas for his own political benefit. Now, Perry wants to get elected president off of the Myth of the Texas Economy.

We won't let him. And yes, Rick, it's because we need you...to stay as far away from Washington as possible.

Lots more to come as the story "develops."

[Recovering Republican]

You appear to have confused "big" and "small". You could fit the entire Department of Education into the waste in the Department of War with so much room left over that nobody would ever notice the difference.


Well, the Defense Department has a purpose. The Education department really doesn't.

Again, the sooner we privatize education, the better.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Yeah, because the profit motive is bound to improve schools.

[Recovering Republican]

Yeah, because the profit motive is bound to improve schools.

Of course it is..

Because how do you make a profit in business?

By producing a better product/service than the other guy.

How do you improve schools,

By making sure that your school is as good or better than the one down the block, so parents want to send their kids there.

It's simple economics, man.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Mmmhmm. Tell me this: does McDonald's produce good food?

[Recovering Republican]

Mmmhmm. Tell me this: does McDonald's produce good food?


Does it produce food people like to eat? Yup.

But I suppose you'd have a state run resturant system where we'd all eat brocolli.

[Jack Batty]

McEducation. Genius.

Who cares if the product is fat and stupid, as long as the books are in the black, we win.

[Bridget Burke]

Concerning The Response (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/life/religion/new/7680975.html):

Three days before The Response, the Reliant Stadium prayer event Gov. Rick Perry initiated two months ago, the response has been spirited among those objecting to the governor's participation.

On Tuesday, more than 50 Houston-area religious and community leaders disseminated a signed statement drafted by the Anti-Defamation League expressing "deep concern" about a prayer rally "not open to all faiths," while the Houston GLBT Political Caucus and related organizations announced a Friday rally at Tranquility Park to protest the event. The groups that represent gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered individuals accused the American Family Association and other sponsors of the prayer event of hatred toward the GLBT community.


The real news: Perry has been shilly-shallying about his actual participation in the event. Those hoping for a stirring sermon ending with him revealing his candidacy for President (think Janet Jackson exposing her nipple during a previous event at Reliant) may be disappointed. Also, the stadium's capacity is 90,000; they're setting it up to hold a mere 10,000 souls.

From The Texas Observer: Can Ray Carney Put Rick Perry in the White House (http://www.texasobserver.org/cover-story/the-outsider)? Bush the Smarter had Lee Atwater, his son had Karl Rove; Perry has this guy....

For Giggles: Rick Perry at Texas A&M (http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2011/08/caption_this_rick_perry_at_tex.php).

[RTFirefly]

Does it produce food people like to eat? Yup.

But I suppose you'd have a state run resturant system where we'd all eat brocolli.Good analogy, actually.

Because a certain amount of teaching does involve making kids do the equivalent of eating their broccoli. Not everyone is going to like to learn arithmetic or spelling or history.

State-run restaurants would be silly for that very reason: you go to a restaurant, not to get the nutrients your body needs, but to have a pleasurable experience involving food. The private sector can provide such pleasurable experiences quite well.

And I'm sure the same would be true of privatized schools. They'd do a good job of providing pleasurable experiences involving knowledge, but I wouldn't expect them to give your kids the knowledge they need.

[galveston]

Pro tip: Finding a new way to borrow money is not the same thing as balancing a budget.

And Texas is notoriously lax on law and order. If you commit a crime in Texas, all you have to do is lay low and wait for them to execute some random schmuck for it, and you're scott-free.

I assume you have proof of that?

[galveston]

I wish Molly were still here, and I didn't see this quote here, which I believe references the Shrub.

" Next time I tell you someone from Texas should not be president of the United States, please pay attention."

You DID like LBJ, then! That war on poverty was oh, so, effective. (We are comparing Perry, right?):D

BTW, I actually prefer Bachman. Do your worst!

[Diogenes the Cynic]

What is it you like best about Bachmann, her pathological lying, her batshit insanity, her creative, alternate history fiction or her 19th century Biblical literalism?

[jsgoddess]

What is it you like best about Bachmann, her pathological lying, her batshit insanity, her creative, alternate history fiction or her 19th century Biblical literalism?

She puts mustard on her bologna sandwich in a smiley face pattern.

[waterj2]

How to tell if you're a Perry supporter:

If you hear about the case of Cameron Todd Willingham, where Perry sacked the committee looking into whether he had an innocent man put to death, and think, "it takes balls to execute an innocent man (http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/08/03/perry_willingham_survey)," congratulations, you are exactly the type of voter Rick Perry needs. Also, for the sake of humanity, please don't breed.

[neuroman]

Cameron Todd Willingham's execution was pretty heinous (check out the amazing documentary Incendiary if you are ever able to (http://www.incendiarymovie.com/INCENDIARY/news_+_schedule.html)). I'm not sure how personally culpable Perry was at the time of denying the 30 day execution stay that the Texas governor is allowed. It does look like he's been pretty interested in burying the follow-up though.

[Bridget Burke]

​Rick Perry's famous call for the nation's governors to come to Houston this weekend to pray and fast is looking more and more like a mistake to all but the religious right.
Of course, if he's looking to win a GOP primary, he may just get by with only the religious right on his side.

Critics are starting to pile up as the event nears, and it looks like there won't be anything close to 70,000 people at Reliant Stadium.

According to the Houston Press (http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2011/08/perrys_prayerapalooza_let_the.php), critics & protesters may well outnumber participants. Although the heat will make that protesting hard; Houston Augusts are known to be hellish, but we're having record temps in a year that's setting records for drought. Reliant Stadium has AC but the parking lot will be very bad.

[gonzomax]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/05/rick-perry-college-transcript_n_919357.html
Perry is a typical tea bagger if you go by his college transcripts. He was a very bad student with very low grades. No wonder the tea baggers make sense to him.
If he jumps into the race, he might miss.

[joebuck20]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/05/rick-perry-college-transcript_n_919357.html
Perry is a typical tea bagger if you go by his college transcripts. He was a very bad student with very low grades. No wonder the tea baggers make sense to him.
If he jumps into the race, he might miss.

Wow, the one that really jumped out at me was a C in PE. How the hell does one get a C in PE?

[Jack Batty]

Wow, the one that really jumped out at me was a C in PE. How the hell does one get a C in PE?

He refused to climb the rope because it made him feel funny.

[gonzomax]

He refused to climb the rope because it made him feel funny.

Marcus Bachmann climbed the rope because it felt good.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Does it produce food people like to eat? Yup.

But I suppose you'd have a state run resturant system where we'd all eat brocolli.
I didn't notice your response until now, but this is perfect.

For-profit restaurants are fine, because the purpose of a restaurant is to produce food people like at a low price. Now, what do you suppose the purpose of a healthcare system is?

[Chronos]

So, the speculation was that he'd officially announce his candidacy at his big prayer meeting, which has since come and gone. Did he in fact announce? If not, can we yet say that he's not running?

[Bridget Burke]

Perry did NOT announce his candidacy yesterday. The Day of Prayer & Fasting had gotten a bunch of bad publicity, so he didn't Come Out.

Attendance was better than had been estimated. However, another Houston event (http://www.burntorangereport.com/) had even more attendees.

The biggest gathering in Houston yesterday should tell America all it needs to know about Rick Perry. I'm not talking about the estimated 30,000 individuals who visited Reliant Stadium yesterday for The Response, a event endorsed by religious extremists and known hate-mongers.

I'm talking about the 100,000 Texans who waited in line for free school supplies, immunizations, fresh produce, and school uniforms.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Rick Perry gave out school uniforms?

[gonzomax]

Perry did NOT announce his candidacy yesterday. The Day of Prayer & Fasting had gotten a bunch of bad publicity, so he didn't Come Out.

Attendance was better than had been estimated. However, another Houston event (http://www.burntorangereport.com/) had even more attendees.

It was free and early on he had 8000 people. They bused them in from everywhere to pad attendance.

[Jas09]

So, the speculation was that he'd officially announce his candidacy at his big prayer meeting, which has since come and gone. Did he in fact announce? If not, can we yet say that he's not running?That was the old busted rumor. The new hotness (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/60884.html) rumor is that he's announcing on Saturday, a few hours after the Ames straw poll.

[Frank]

That was the old busted rumor. The new hotness (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/60884.html) rumor is that he's announcing on Saturday, a few hours after the Ames straw poll.
No, he's not going to announce. He's going to strongly signal his intention to announce. Later. Sometime.

Texas Gov. Rick Perry will be joined by his family in South Carolina this weekend for a major speech in which he will strongly signal his intention to run for president, two GOP sources told CNN.

This coyness gets on my nerves. Not just Perry's, all of 'em. I understand that there are legal and campaign financing reasons for the coyness, but it still bugs me.

[cornflakes]

I think the idea behind testing the waters is a candidate can raise money and build a network, but the potential opponents don't throw mud. Besides, there's less time to flame out or for your message to get stale.

[Chronos]

This coyness gets on my nerves. Not just Perry's, all of 'em. I understand that there are legal and campaign financing reasons for the coyness, but it still bugs me. It would bug me, too, except that I'm beginning to think that he doesn't and never did intend to run, and it's just the media who's running away with the story and looking for excuses to keep running with it.

[Finagle]

It was free and early on he had 8000 people. They bused them in from everywhere to pad attendance.

It looks like he got about 30,000 (max) to show up. That sounds...underwhelming. High school football playoffs get higher attendance (http://www.texas4asports.com/index.cgi?board=records&action=display&thread=94) than that in Texas. If that's the kind of grassroots attention Perry can dredge up after months of publicity, it doesn't seem to bode well for a potential campaign.

Of course, scheduling an event in the middle of a Texas summer is probably not a good way to get people to show up.

[Bridget Burke]

Seriously, folks, Perry will announce this Saturday (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/60884.html).

Rick Perry intends to use a speech in South Carolina on Saturday to make clear that he's running for president, POLITICO has learned.

According to two sources familiar with the plan, the Texas governor will remove any doubt about his White House intentions during his appearance at a RedState conference in Charleston.

It's uncertain whether Saturday will mark a formal declaration, but Perry's decision to disclose his intentions the same day as the Ames straw poll — and then hours later make his first trip to New Hampshire — will send shock waves through the race and upend whatever results come out of the straw poll.

Kay Bailey Hutchison isn't full of praise (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/08/05/7265833-hutchison-balks-at-praising-perry):

“Well he certainly has government experience,” Hutchison said. For a conservative, particularly one running for president, a long resume of government work is not necessarily a compliment one wants.

Hutchison added that her preference is for leaders who have private experience, saying: “I’ve always felt like we need people who have really been in the private sector, as well and have actually created jobs.”

In fact, for a politician with such an anti-government lean, Perry has spent nearly his whole career as a government official. He has worked in government for more than 27 consecutive years since being elected to the Texas House of Representatives in 1984. If Perry is elected president, he will have served 28 consecutive years doing government work, longer than any candidate ever elected to the White House.

Of course, she'd hoped to follow her career as "the less insane Texas Senator" by becoming Governor; Perry stood in her way.

[Jas09]

Heh, that's the best backhanded compliment I've heard all day from Hutchison. Clearly she's not in Camp Perry.

[Merijeek]

Of course, scheduling an event in the middle of a Texas summer is probably not a good way to get people to show up.

From what I read, though, it was a free event at an air conditioned stadium. It's not like they had to suffer through the heat to bask in his Jeebusness.

-Joe

[Chronos]

I'm beginning to think that "This will be the perfect time for Perry to announce" will be this cycle's "This is just the break the McCain campaign has been waiting for".

[Bridget Burke]

Well, the rabble rousers at The Texas Observer have created The Perry Trail (http://www.texasobserver.org/the-perry-trail)--ready if he ever does announce....

Lots of material, even if it is rather nauseating.

[pikey pete]

you know I was joking with friends that I hoped Perry ran so he would have to give up governorship of Texas. Need to watch what I wish for.

[GIGObuster]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2011/08/rick-perry-texas-joins-republican-presidential-race-.html
Rick Perry joins the GOP fray: 'This is gonna be a fun ride!'

Yet another Texan that wants to take America for a ride...






Yes, I do include LB Johnson for making Vietnam worse. And for Dubya it was even a war that was done by choice in Iraq, Should we expect WWIII now?

[gonzomax]

Jeb Bush has backed him. that should fire up some Repubs.

[Crane]

Hog barf!

Perry's just Fred Thompson Lite. I doubt that he will last through the Iowa Caucus.

Crane

[Boyo Jim]

I thought Fred Thompson was Fred Thompson Lite.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

From what I've been seeing, it looks like Perry kind of pissed a lot of people off by stepping on the straw poll. He comes off like an entitled, self-important cunt. It will be interesting to see how the rest of the field handles him.

I actually don't know why people think Perry is that much more electable than Bachmann. He's just as ideologically extreme, plus he has that secessionist baggage he's going to have to explain. Bachmann would be the perfect person to call him on that.

There's also that innocent person he had executed, but the teabaggers couldn't give less of a shit about killing innocent people. That would have to be a general election issue.

[Chronos]

There's also that innocent person he had executedWhich one?

And has he officially announced yet like everyone was saying he was going to, or are we now waiting for some other significant milestone for him to announce at?

[Boyo Jim]

Perry announced for President in the last couple of days.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Which one?
Cameron Todd Willingham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Todd_Willingham)

[Chronos]

Perry announced for President in the last couple of days. Really? As of yesterday, the word was "He's definitely going to announce tomorrow".

[Boyo Jim]

I dunno the technical requirements of announcing, but if you google perry announce president you'll nothing but hits saying he has announced already.

[Lantern]

There was clearly a big space between Romney and Bachmann which was waiting to be filled. Pawlenty had the first shot but he fluffed his chance and his campaign is probably over. It's Perry's turn now and he has huge momentum and interest going for him. We will have to see how he performs in the first couple of debates and at fund-raising but my hunch is he is the real deal and it will be a Romney versus Perry race.

I have no doubt that the majority of Republican primary voters would prefer Perry to Romney. Romney's best argument is going to be Kerry's in 2004: I am more electable in the general election than Perry. Head-to-head polls with Obama in January will be crucial. If Romney is even and Perry is 10 points behind, then GOP voters may swallow their distaste and go with Romney. The timing of the departures of the other candidates also matters. If Bachmann can really fire up her niche, she may stick around for a long time drawing 10-15% of primary voters from Perry. It will then be a matter of whether they can make some kind of deal.

[flickster]

Really? As of yesterday, the word was "He's definitely going to announce tomorrow".

Perry Makes It Official (http://www.stltoday.com/news/national/article_242fb419-1689-5f6f-a70c-15f924eb77ee.html)

[RTFirefly]

Bye bye T-Paw, hello Rick Perry.

He may have trouble getting votes from blue-collar types, because he feels it's an "injustice" (yep, that's his word) that the lower half of the income distribution doesn't have to pay any income tax. Here's the quote (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_08/perry_pushes_for_higher_taxes031519.php):

We're dismayed at the injustice that nearly half of all Americans don’t even pay any income tax. And you know the liberals out there are saying that we need to pay more.

If the Dems are smart, they'll immediately start painting him as a guy who thinks working stiffs aren't paying enough, but doesn't feel the same about rich people. It's what he said, after all.

[Icarus]

Oh joy, to me he's just W with bigger balls and less scruples. Just what we need!

[gonzomax]

He needs to run with Plawenty.
Good hair and Plawenty
Goodhair and Plawenty
Woo woo

[Boyo Jim]

Nobody else has Bachmann's crazy crazy eyes. She's a shoe in for the nomination!

[Martin Hyde]

While it sounds like something from bizarro world, what is concerning about Rick Perry is virtually no Texas Democrat likes him or will even significantly work with him. Perry has essentially done everything along strict party lines in Texas.

President Bush, as Texas governor, actually worked very well with Democrats in the legislature and passed lots of bipartisan legislation and built consensus legislation with Democrats. It got overshadowed by acrimony post-2006 elections but for the first 6 years of Bush's Presidency I'd also argue even a neutral observer would agree President Bush had some notable instances in which he was able to build bipartisan compromise.

It should be very concerning that even as Governor Perry is totally unable to compromise with Texas Democrats. It isn't necessarily surprising that a national politician like the President may not be quite as good at bipartisan agreements in Congress as he was as a governor, because in many states the differences between state-level Dem/GOP politicis aren't as dramatic as they are on the national level. So to me it is surprising and worrisome that Perry essentially has shown no interest or ability to work with opposition on any significant issues.

[Crane]

Like I said, I doubt Perry will last through the Iowa Caucus.

Palin will take the nomination.

Crane

[Onomatopoeia]

Like I said, I doubt Perry will last through the Iowa Caucus.

Palin will take the nomination.

CraneThis is a joke, right? First, I'm confident Palin's not going to seek the nomination. Second, Bachmann who, evidence to the contrary, actually has a brain, albeit warped and divorced from reality, would tear Palin to shreds in any one-on-one confrontation.