What's a Player and What's a Hater?

[Profound Gibberish]

I have never been able to get a decent answer about these terms. Where did this originate, and what does it mean now?

[Hippy Hollow]

I'd say that both terms originate in urban street lingo. A "player" is someone who is suave, debonair, and not easily taken advantage of. A player is the one doing the hustling - not getting hustled. More generally, it refers to someone who is smooth, cool, and on top of things.

A "hater" is someone who irrationally dislikes someone because of their expertise, talent, or skill. Basically someone who is jealous and dislikes someone who's showing competence. Now, it's not the same as disliking someone because of ineptitude or a bad attitude. Haters hate on people for no good reason. If someone crosses you or does you wrong and you dislike them, that's not hating per se.

[steronz]

A player is a successful person. Normally in reference to prowess with the opposite sex, but it can extend to income, profession, acquisitions, etc.

A hater is someone who's jealous of a player, or at least that's how it's used - as an accusation. In other words, pretend I'm a successful rapper and you dislike my music. I'll simply call you a "hater," thereby sidestepping your critique of my musical talent by decreeing that your criticism stems from jealousy of my success.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I remember this "playa Hater" stuff from when I was a teacher. From what I was able to gather, a "playa" was apparently a young man who had success with women, but was not exclusive, and often had an insensitive or blase attitude about these women. A "playa hater" was a person who was critical of this lifestyle, especially of the propensity to string women along and be unfaithful to them. This cricism was responded to with the suggestion that the "hater" was "just jealous," and 'just be trippin'" because the playa had something that the hater did not have. Plays also made the argument that one should not hate the playa, but hate the game, whatever that means.

[Revenant Threshold]

Plays also made the argument that one should not hate the playa, but hate the game, whatever that means. I think it's equivalent to people saying "hate the sin, not the sinner".

[Nzinga, Seated]

I detest the whole 'hater' thing because it has been corrupted. Now it is being said as anyone who dislikes anyone or anything for any reason, valid or invalid, and like Hippy said, originally it was reserved for jealous people who put down folks just because they envied them.

All of that said, I always wonder why people pretend not to understand anything slang, as if that makes them oh so above it all. Not referencing the OP now, but Dio with the whole wide-eyed, "I know ghetto kids I used to teach would make strange sounds about not hating the player but hating the game. I have no idea what that could mean!"

The fuck outta here. It's meaning is crystal clear, Don't hate me just because I have mastered the game that you fail at and that we are all forced to play. That can mean the game of Pick up artist, drug dealer, technical support desk, salesman, whatever. Some slang is indecipherable to outsiders. And some slang is obvious . This one is pretty clear. It's not hard.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

No, they were just talking about guys playing women. In my experience, anyway, a "playa" was just a womanizer. That was a long time ago, though.

[Cat Whisperer]

I detest the whole 'hater' thing because it has been corrupted. Now it is being said as anyone who dislikes anyone or anything for any reason, valid or invalid, and like Hippy said, originally it was reserved for jealous people who put down folks just because they envied them.

All of that said, I always wonder why people pretend not to understand anything slang, as if that makes them oh so above it all. Not referencing the OP now, but Dio with the whole wide-eyed, "I know ghetto kids I used to teach would make strange sounds about not hating the player but hating the game. I have no idea what that could mean!"

The fuck outta here. It's meaning is crystal clear, Don't hate me just because I have mastered the game that you fail at and that we are all forced to play. That can mean the game of Pick up artist, drug dealer, technical support desk, salesman, whatever. Some slang is indecipherable to outsiders. And some slang is obvious . This one is pretty clear. It's not hard.
I'm sorry, I didn't understand a word of that.




:D

[Odesio]

All of that said, I always wonder why people pretend not to understand anything slang, as if that makes them oh so above it all. Not referencing the OP now, but Dio with the whole wide-eyed, "I know ghetto kids I used to teach would make strange sounds about not hating the player but hating the game. I have no idea what that could mean!"


If a player is in fact a suave debonair individual with a good head on his shoulders then I am one of those people who did not understand slang. I've always associated a player with having the negative traits Diogenes mentioned. If it makes anyone feel better I pretty much had hater down.

[Nzinga, Seated]

If a player is in fact a suave debonair individual with a good head on his shoulders then I am one of those people who did not understand slang. I've always associated a player with having the negative traits Diogenes mentioned. If it makes anyone feel better I pretty much had hater down.

I am sure you and Dio have a lock on the slang situation, so I will just admit right up front; we probably come from different perspectives on this one.

But I gotta ask. When was the first time you heard 'player hater'. I'm gonna guess for me, about 1988.

Compared to how I hear it said now, on The Real World, or Jersey Shore or the movie Clueless or whatever...I can see how some folks are thrown off.

Cat Whisperer, I am dying laughing. You are killing me.

[Súil Dubh]

But I gotta ask. When was the first time you heard 'player hater'. I'm gonna guess for me, about 1988.

Wow. The expression is that old? The first time I heard it was around 2002 in a song.

"Playa hata" and "Don't hate the playa" were all over the message boards I posted at, around the same time.

I always thought these terms were a 00's net meme. I had no idea they'd been around for so long.

[Miller]

I'm sorry, I didn't understand a word of that.




:D


"Excuse me, stewardess? I speak jive."

[Cat Whisperer]

Now Miller's killing me (gah! Coughing fit from laughing too hard!)

[enalzi]

I detest the whole 'hater' thing because it has been corrupted.

Haters gonna hate.

[Odesio]

I am sure you and Dio have a lock on the slang situation, so I will just admit right up front; we probably come from different perspectives on this one.


We probably do come from different perspectives. Let's be honest, as a white male my experience as an African American female is somewhat limited. I'm working on it though.


But I gotta ask. When was the first time you heard 'player hater'. I'm gonna guess for me, about 1988.


I honestly don't remember the first time I heard it. The best guess I can come up with is somewhere between 15 and 20 years ago.


Compared to how I hear it said now, on The Real World, or Jersey Shore or the movie Clueless or whatever...I can see how some folks are thrown off.

I don't watch any of those but I'm pretty sure I'm influenced by popular culture in ways I am unaware of. It just seems to me that player has always been applied to the type of man who takes advantage of others. It might be women or it might be people he's conning but I never associated player with something positive. So being a player hater always made sense to me. Why wouldn't I hate unethical behavior? It never occurred to me that player might mean something positive.

[Nzinga, Seated]

Wow. The expression is that old? The first time I heard it was around 2002 in a song.

"Playa hata" and "Don't hate the playa" were all over the message boards I posted at, around the same time.

I always thought these terms were a 00's net meme. I had no idea they'd been around for so long.

I think it became very popular in the 90s. By the end of the 90s, it was getting the Hollywood treatment as movies like 'Players Club' and songs like Ice T's "Dont Hate the Playa" came out.

But here's a protip about slang: By the time a popular rapper is naming his song a slangy phrase, it is already OLD as fuck on the street. So by the time Ice made that shit, it was played out.

Like Will Smith singing "Gettin' Jiggy Wit it" Ugh. That shit was old, played, over used, commercialized and annoying by the time he made that song. But 15 years prior, it was edgy and cool to say something was jiggy.

Real slang lovers will dispose of slang by the time Hollywood gets it. It's not on purpose, I don't think...it's just the nature of loving to make up new 'language' and play with word meanings and have this whole hip-hop culture that folks outside of the culture won't understand (or will look down on, or...hate.)

Eta: Odesia, I hear what you are saying. Playa does mean 'playboy'. But it means other stuff too; and yes, it is positive. Lots of black concious rappers have made a point of saying, "Yeah, I'm a hater because I hate wack rappers" or whatever, but that never really caught on. It seemed kind of desperate and forced. I love De La Soul, but I think they made a huge mistake in their career by focusing on proving they aren't haters. Their hip hop suffered for it.

[BigT]

The thing with a player is that the exploitation is not a necessary part. Yes, player-haters claim that's what's happening, but that's not always the case. Being a player just means you have successfully convinced a significant number of women to have sex with you. And, in some contexts it doesn't even go that far.

The hater is being just as misogynistic by assuming that no woman would have sex with you if you didn't trick them into thinking you were after a relationship. Some players do do that, and I agree they suck. But not all.

I remember that I was actually called a player because, at camp, I tended to mostly go around and meet new women. It's the same people who think talking to women is flirting. The idea that I can think a woman is physically attractive, talk to her, but not be trying to get in her pants--that was a foreign concept to a lot of people when I was a kid.

Anyways, the phrase "Don't hate the playa, hate the game" works whether it's said by the good or bad type of player. The good guy is saying that you are just jealous of his skills, and aren't really mad at him. The bad guy is saying that you should be mad at the system that allows someone like him to exploit it--and again, he sees nothing wrong with that.

I never once heard the term used in any other situation.

[Nzinga, Seated]

...I remember that I was actually called a player because, at camp, I tended to mostly go around and meet new women...

You ol' playa you!


For people who have never heard 'Don't hate the playa, hate the game' outside of pick up artists, it helps to remember that in the 'hood, every damn thing is the 'game'. Seriously. It is an extremely common expression. If you are in sales, that's the game. If you are a rapper, that's the game. If you are a drug dealer, that's the game. If you are a pimp, that is the game. If you are a hustler, prostitute, robber, etc, it's all the game.

[billfish678]

For people who have never heard 'Don't hate the playa, hate the game' outside of pick up artists, it helps to remember that in the 'hood, every damn thing is the 'game'. .

And yet African Americans seem to woefully underepresented in the game show host industry...

[Profound Gibberish]

And yet African Americans seem to woefully underepresented in the game show host industry...


Profound ;)

Thanks all for a very interesting discussion.

[awldune]

A player is a successful person. Normally in reference to prowess with the opposite sex, but it can extend to income, profession, acquisitions, etc.

A hater is someone who's jealous of a player, or at least that's how it's used - as an accusation. In other words, pretend I'm a successful rapper and you dislike my music. I'll simply call you a "hater," thereby sidestepping your critique of my musical talent by decreeing that your criticism stems from jealousy of my success.

Just wanted to say, this is an excellent explanation of both terms.

[billfish678]

Here's one interpretation. A variation on BigT's post.

A player might be a guy who uses all those sleazy tricks to "get women". Things like treat em poorly. Make a date then just don't show up. Never apologize for anything. All kinds of things the player would NOT do to his friends or family. He does this on the theory that it works (and IME it does for certain classes of women).

Then you got the haters. One motivation is that they are just jealous as BigT and others have pointed out. But the haters can be hating not so much for the success but for the methods used. And that doesnt seem that out of line to me. Don't you dislike it when someone gets ahead using methods you'd never do because they are immoral? I mean damn, not only did they get away with being shits, they got REWARDED for it!

So you might have guy thats a player. Finally, some woman, maybe even one that his system works on, gives him hell for treating women like shit. And his response might well be "hate the game, not the player". He may or may not like using the system but his point is that unfortunately to him it appears to work, so don't blame him for using it.

[MeanOldLady]

All of that said, I always wonder why people pretend not to understand anything slang, as if that makes them oh so above it all. Not referencing the OP now, but Dio with the whole wide-eyed, "I know ghetto kids I used to teach would make strange sounds about not hating the player but hating the game. I have no idea what that could mean!"

The fuck outta here.Oh snaps! Thanks for the laugh. I seriously almost died in my chair.

But here's a protip about slang: By the time a popular rapper is naming his song a slangy phrase, it is already OLD as fuck on the street. So by the time Ice made that shit, it was played out.This is true with the exception (for me) of the term "bling." I'd never heard of it until that song --by who was it? Juvenile or somebody like that?-- "Bling Bling" came out in the late 90s or so.

[WordMan]

You ol' playa you!


For people who have never heard 'Don't hate the playa, hate the game' outside of pick up artists, it helps to remember that in the 'hood, every damn thing is the 'game'. Seriously. It is an extremely common expression. If you are in sales, that's the game. If you are a rapper, that's the game. If you are a drug dealer, that's the game. If you are a pimp, that is the game. If you are a hustler, prostitute, robber, etc, it's all the game.

Ghetto Realpolitik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realpolitik) (wiki link), reduced to pickup banter or wannabe slang. Oy.

[Skald the Rhymer]

I remember this "playa Hater" stuff from when I was a teacher. From what I was able to gather, a "playa" was apparently a young man who had success with women, but was not exclusive, and often had an insensitive or blase attitude about these women. A "playa hater" was a person who was critical of this lifestyle, especially of the propensity to string women along and be unfaithful to them. This cricism was responded to with the suggestion that the "hater" was "just jealous," and 'just be trippin'" because the playa had something that the hater did not have. Plays also made the argument that one should not hate the playa, but hate the game, whatever that means.

"Don't hate the player, hate the game" means "do not blame persons more successful in a given endeavor than you for your lack of skill."

Which is true as far as it goes.

I also take mild issue with your definition of player hater. In my experience it's typically used to describe people envious of haters, not those critical of their choices.

When I was in college, I had a friend, "Patrick," who thought I was a stud because I got laid more than he. But I wasn't really a stud; I just asked out more girls than he did. Out mutual friend "Frank" thought I was a creep to the girls I dated, and eventually dumped me as a friend because he disapproved of me.

Patrick was a player hater; Frank was not.

[Acsenray]

Anytime someone makes a comment about a difference in ages between two members of a romantic couple, that's a hater. It's just envy.

[Skald the Rhymer]

Anytime someone makes a comment about a difference in ages between two members of a romantic couple, that's a hater. It's just envy.

My wife's a lot younger than me, but nonetheless I don't think what you wrote is necessarily true. There's lots of legitimate reasons to be concerned or dismayed, particularly if you're friends with the younger party.

[Infovore]

For people who have never heard 'Don't hate the playa, hate the game' outside of pick up artists, it helps to remember that in the 'hood, every damn thing is the 'game'. Seriously. It is an extremely common expression. If you are in sales, that's the game. If you are a rapper, that's the game. If you are a drug dealer, that's the game. If you are a pimp, that is the game. If you are a hustler, prostitute, robber, etc, it's all the game.

And need I point out that everybody in this thread has just lost The Game? :D

[msmith537]

I'm not a player. I just crush a lot.

[Erdosain]

And yet African Americans seem to woefully underepresented in the game show host industry...

You've never seen Let's Make a Deal or Family Feud?

[Acsenray]

That's two. Does that constitute a refutation of underrepresentation?

[Erdosain]

Well, it was a joke. But those are both popular syndicated game shows shown on real networks during the day (as opposed to cable crap like Lingo). How many syndicated network TV game shows are there? Probably 20 or 30. So, yes, underrepresented but maybe not by all that much (if you want to crudely extrapolate percentage of population equaling representation).

It would be nice to have more diverse game show hosts (most are made up of old orange skin and botox as far as I can tell) as well as having a less humiliating outlet for Wayne Brady's talents.

[Lamia]

Then you got the haters. One motivation is that they are just jealous as BigT and others have pointed out. But the haters can be hating not so much for the success but for the methods used. And that doesnt seem that out of line to me. Don't you dislike it when someone gets ahead using methods you'd never do because they are immoral? I mean damn, not only did they get away with being shits, they got REWARDED for it!Let me preface this by saying that I am very, very white, both literally (pale complexion) and figuratively. I have zero street cred. If there is such a thing as negative street cred then that's what I've got.

That said, my understanding of the term "hater" is that a hater is motivated by envy or spite. It may not always be clear whether someone accused of being a hater is in fact a true hater, but a hater by definition does not have pure motives.