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View Full Version : The White Room: A Thought Experiment


Kozmik
06-20-2011, 07:17 PM
Because it's arguably unethical to conduct a real experiment, this will remain a thought experiment. Inspired by the Allegory of the Cave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave), The Truman Show (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Truman_Show) and Cube (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cube_(film)). Imagine that a couple is selected to give birth to a child in a white room. To ensure a controlled experiment, even in the nine months prior the couple lives in the white room. When the child is born, the clock starts. To be sure, this is no ordinary experiment and this is no ordinary room. Like in The Truman Show, every moment of the child is filmed; unlike The Truman Show, it is taken to the extreme as the child is born and raised in the white room. In the nine months prior, there will be nothing apparently interesting in the white room; the couple will be filmed talking to themselves about the expectant child, about the run-up to the decidedly live experiment, and what will happen once the experiment begins. As a prelude to what will happen during the experiment, the couple will be fed though a series of computer-controlled panels wherein food and beverage will be placed on them, the remains of which will be placed on the panels to be removed from the white room. Consequently, the human remains, feces and urine, will be removed from the white room in a similar manner. Standard issue clothing, along with other necessary items, will be changed and exchanged as needed.

Nothing will be introduced to the white room unless it is introduced by those conducting the experiment and anything introduced to the white room will be introduced by computer-controlled panels or other apparatuses on the walls of the white room. No humans, other than the couple and the child, will have any direct contact within the white room; conversely, the couple and the child will only have indirect contact with outside of the white room, i.e. via the panels.

A child is introduced in the white room.

The birth is the first significant event in the white room. The couple, trained by the experimenters, have a live birth. The umbilical cord is cut, and removed via the panels. The panels also clean up the amniotic fluids, and clothing is exchanged via the panels. Day 1 of the experiment: a father dressed in standard issue blue colored clothing, a mother dressed in standard issue blue colored clothing, and a naked infant, wrapped, perhaps symbolically, in swaddling clothes.

A father, a mother and child in the white room.

However, the experimenters have instructed the father and the mother on how to raise the son. They have instructed them to live as if they are not mother and father, or male or female. They understand that to mean live as Person 1 and Person 2 and Person 3. They are not allowed to name the child. They are not allowed to say their own names. They are forbidden to say "the white room" or even "room". Above all, they must never, ever, say anything about "outside" the white room.

Other than that, the couple is instructed to raise the child as if he were their own child as in fact he is indeed. During the first year, they do just about everything that any other mother and father would do: change diapers (which are introduced and then removed via the panels), play with toys (which are introduced and them removed via the panels), and feed the baby, which, at first is by breastfeeding, and then though baby food and baby formula introduced via the panels.

When the child is two they teach him to walk. When the child is three and four they teach him how to talk and how to read (books being introduced via the panels).

After the child's fifth birthday (which is not observed as time is not to be observed within the white room), he becomes a happy, healthy little boy who likes to jump and run around in the white room.

Soon the child begins to ask questions. Where does the food come from? Where did we come from? Who are you? Who am I?

The mother and the father just shrug and effectively say "I don't know".

The experiment goes on day by day. The couple and the child sleep when they effectively are tired for as long as they need to each day. They wake up when they wake up. Breakfast is provided via the panels. They eat. Lunch is provided via the panels. They eat. Dinner is provided via the panels. They eat. Clothes are provided via the panels. They change their clothes and put the identical clothing that became soiled and dirty into the panels to be removed. They sleep. Another day in the experiment.

On day 5480, the child turned 15. On that day, the child wakes up while the mother and father are sleeping. He rises up and puts his hands over the neck of the sleeping mother, strangling her. The mother dies. The child, now tired from what he had done, goes back to sleep. The mother's body is immediately moved by the panels and then is removed from the white room. The father and the son wake up at the same time afterwards. The son says he did something to her.

"Who?"

The son was never taught the concept of murder. The son is now lied to by his father. The father lies saying, "There is no one else. There never was. There's just you and me."

The son now looks around at the white room. No blood. The blood had been removed from the white room without a trace.

Day 5481 of the experiment: a man wearing standard issue blue colored clothing stares at a man wearing standard issue blue colored clothing staring back.

Day 5482: a man stares at the white room.

Day 5483: the white room stares back.

Indistinguishable
06-20-2011, 08:34 PM
Deep, man...

hansel
06-20-2011, 08:35 PM
Arguably?

Kozmik
06-20-2011, 08:38 PM
Arguably?Yes. It is Great Debates, after all.

Indistinguishable
06-20-2011, 08:39 PM
Arguably?
Ah, but don't you see? In a way, we all murder our mothers on our 15th birthdays.

Rhythmdvl
06-20-2011, 08:48 PM
Does this white room have black curtains? Or we listening to the Doors?

Smeghead
06-20-2011, 08:49 PM
I'm sorry to inform you that your research grant proposal was rejected.

Reason: Insufficient detail of individual aims given. Just what are you proposing to learn here?

Also: Racist. Why's the room got to be white, man?!

ITR champion
06-20-2011, 09:13 PM
Social interaction is a necessity for human life just as much as food, water, air, and an appropriate temperature range. The child would not live long in this scenario.

appleciders
06-20-2011, 09:19 PM
I don't understand. What's the experiment?

Indistinguishable
06-20-2011, 09:22 PM
Social interaction is a necessity for human life just as much as food, water, air, and an appropriate temperature range. The child would not live long in this scenario.
What would they die of?

MsWhatsit
06-20-2011, 09:24 PM
I think I might be participating in an experiment by posting in this thread.

Kozmik
06-20-2011, 09:43 PM
Social interaction is a necessity for human life just as much as food, water, air, and an appropriate temperature range. The child would not live long in this scenario.Why wouldn't the husband and wife die? Would they be able to withstand what is effectively solitary confinement? Life imprisonment?

hansel
06-20-2011, 09:43 PM
Yes. It is Great Debates, after all.What's the debate, then? Is it ethical? Obviously not. The child's natural rights are being violated all over the place, his moral agency is eliminated, and he's unjustly confined for his whole life in a sterile situation. In what sense could this experiment not be unethical?

FYI, thought experiments typically set up the situation and then ask the respondents what they think would or should happen.

panache45
06-20-2011, 11:26 PM
What would they die of?

They would pine for the fjords.

Kobal2
06-20-2011, 11:35 PM
What would they die of?

Head trauma and blood loss from banging their head against the wall in a catatonic state.

Frylock
06-21-2011, 12:30 AM
...aaaaand the child eventually exits the room and sees the color purple for the first time and has he learned anything? Or something.

Kozmik, this is Great Debates. What is the claim you wish to debate?

Sitnam
06-21-2011, 01:03 AM
I don't understand. What's the experiment?
What it's like growing up in The Straight Dope message board.

Thudlow Boink
06-21-2011, 01:16 AM
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Sr Siete
06-21-2011, 01:40 AM
Wait, wait, wait. I get it. Okay, so, the White Room is Obamacare, right? And the scientists are the nanny state establishment, right? And...

Well, in short, it's the commies. It's always the commies, man. These 'shrooms are G - O - O - D.

MrDibble
06-21-2011, 02:46 AM
Social interaction is a necessity for human life just as much as food, water, air, and an appropriate temperature range. The child would not live long in this scenario.It might very well live, but would be mentally retarded, I'm sure.

Half Man Half Wit
06-21-2011, 02:54 AM
...aaaaand the child eventually exits the room and sees the color purple for the first time and has he learned anything? Or something.
^ What I thought of first, too.

Interestingly, I'm just now reading Room by Emma Donoghue, whose setting is broadly similar, only with more of an abduction and rape background -- there, too, a child is raised, though only by his mother, in a confined space without contact to the outside; there's a TV but at the beginning, the child thinks that what's in the TV is just fantasy.

I'm just mentioning this because I have no idea what else to contribute to this thread...

Mangetout
06-21-2011, 07:04 AM
Is this a debate, or a screenplay?

Freudian Slit
06-21-2011, 08:08 AM
^ What I thought of first, too.

Interestingly, I'm just now reading Room by Emma Donoghue, whose setting is broadly similar, only with more of an abduction and rape background -- there, too, a child is raised, though only by his mother, in a confined space without contact to the outside; there's a TV but at the beginning, the child thinks that what's in the TV is just fantasy.

I'm just mentioning this because I have no idea what else to contribute to this thread...

Emma Donohue's Room was my first thought, too. But I, too, have no idea what we're supposed to be debating in this thread.

Desert Nomad
06-21-2011, 09:13 AM
...aaaaand the child eventually exits the room and sees the color purple for the first time

Would it make any difference if it were Star Wars, or does it have to be The Color Purple?
:D:D

panache45
06-21-2011, 09:19 AM
. . . they teach him how to talk and how to read (books being introduced via the panels).

And what is in these books that doesn't expose him to the outside world?

Grumman
06-21-2011, 09:27 AM
I blame postmodernism.

Nars Glinley
06-21-2011, 10:26 AM
Debates typically state a position.

Czarcasm
06-21-2011, 10:52 AM
Why wouldn't the husband and wife die? Would they be able to withstand what is effectively solitary confinement? Life imprisonment?Those are just(vague and not very well thought out) questions.
What is the debate here?

ITR champion
06-21-2011, 12:12 PM
What would they die of?
Living is a conscious choice as it requires eating, drinking, maintaining health, and so forth. Place a person in conditions where the physical or mental suffering is too great and they will eventually drift towards death by one means or another. I believe there was a Straight Dope column on the topic of the maximum time that a human has survived in total isolation from others and the answer was about a year. In this scenario we'd have three human beings but the same principles would be at work.

Freudian Slit
06-21-2011, 12:22 PM
Living is a conscious choice as it requires eating, drinking, maintaining health, and so forth. Place a person in conditions where the physical or mental suffering is too great and they will eventually drift towards death by one means or another. I believe there was a Straight Dope column on the topic of the maximum time that a human has survived in total isolation from others and the answer was about a year. In this scenario we'd have three human beings but the same principles would be at work.

But there would be social interaction in this situation. The parents are interacting with the child.

Czarcasm
06-21-2011, 12:29 PM
After all this time, why the hell would the parents keep quiet about the nature of the experiment? You can't ask us about the actions and motives of hypothetical humans if they refuse to act or think in a human manner. This is like asking what would happen if you stuck a red pribblebit and a blue tselayle in a box-can't know, and thus don't care.

iamnotbatman
06-21-2011, 01:31 PM
A more realistic and more interesting experiment IMO would be to raise a child in a room completely insulated from the outside world, and with rules against reference to the existence of an outside world. There is no need for the room to be white or have robotic panels as an interface and so on. It would simply be a fairly normal room, but with strict controls against references to the existence of a larger universe. Food and companionship would come from outside the room through an airlock-type door system so the child could never see outside, or get outside. Human companions would act as though they were gods, appearing through the airlock door. The only thing that exists -- the universe -- is the room, and only the room.

It would be interesting to see how an intelligent child raised in such a solipsistic universe would react psychologically/philosophically. It would be interesting to see what questions he/she asked, and whether he would find this universe philosophically frightening.

tomndebb
06-21-2011, 01:41 PM
Kozmik, as numerous posters have noted, this is the debate forum. It is not the "throw a lot of text at a white wall and hope something catches someone's eye" forum.

Lacking a thesis or even a question, this thread is closed.