Anyone excited about the Torchwood Debut?

[aceplace57]

Tonights the big start. :D

I hope this time they can keep the original humor from the early seasons. I stopped watching after season 2 because it got to dark. Too depressing.

I'm giving the reboot a chance. I like Jack and adore Eve. I'm open to a fresh start. I'm curious to see what they have planned.

http://www.npr.org/2011/07/08/137647555/torchwood-and-curb-two-summer-tv-treats

http://www.cnn.com/2011/SHOWBIZ/07/08/torchwood.miracle.day/
The Review sounds promising.
http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2011/07/08/torchwood-miracle-day-review-revue/?mod=google_news_blog

[levdrakon]

Me me me! I'm excited!

[aceplace57]

I wonder if they'll take a more adult approach like True Blood? It's cable and they can curse now. ;)

[levdrakon]

I thought Torchwood was already in a later British time slot so they could curse and have lots of sex.

As long as Jack unambiguously has more sex with guys than girls. I have a fear that in an Americanized version they'll let him have one quick gayish scene and then he'll boff women the rest of the season.

[Eyebrows 0f Doom]

I thought Torchwood was already in a later British time slot so they could curse and have lots of sex.

As long as Jack unambiguously has more sex with guys than girls. I have a fear that in an Americanized version they'll let him have one quick gayish scene and then he'll boff women the rest of the season.

According to this interview with John Barrowman (http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2011/07/john_barrowman_1.html),
And it's not me who just promises it, the writers wrote it, so it's not like "John Barrowman says we're having MAN SEX" and it's put in the script — it was there! It was given to me first, so it was like a gift. But yeah, men have sex together and so do women, and it's about time that we show full-on man sex on television [Laughs.]

[urban1a]

John Barrowman also promised lots of nudity. Looking forward to that too. :D

Bob

[aceplace57]

My vote is Gwen gets some hot sex too. ;) I'll fast forward through any Barrowman sex scenes. I can always look at my own hairy ass in a mirror. I don't need to see his.

I recorded tonights show. Will watch tomorrow.

[aceplace57]

Decided to stay up another hour and watch the debut.

Looks really good so far. I like the plot setup that brings Jack and Gwen to America. I won't say much more because of spoilers.

LMAO when I saw the Black Lady News Anchor again. She became an inside joke on Davies' version of Doctor Who. Anytime all hell broke out world wide, she'd be on the Air announcing the end of the world. Nice seeing her again. I don't think she's appeared on Doctor Who since the 11th Doctor started.

With Torchwood, these are Dead Actors Walking. I've never seen a cast of Actors killed off like Russell T. Davies did with Torchwood. Can't help but wonder who'll be the first cast member killed off. We all know it'll happen. Always does on Torchwood. They better not kill of Gwen or I'll be gone. She's the main reason I watch.

[aceplace57]

:confused: :confused:

The show aired hours ago and nobody is talking? Guess I'll shift over to Gallifrey Base.

I've heard the UK will see Torchwood next week. For years BBC America showed Doctor Who a week late. Now the shoe is on the other foot in the UK.

Since it will air in the UK. I don't expect any normal cable stuff like cursing or nudity. They got to keep it pretty clean so it can air unedited in the UK. That's fine. Really, if I want nasty stuff, I'll watch an R rated movie.

[Charley]

Since it will air in the UK. I don't expect any normal cable stuff like cursing or nudity. They got to keep it pretty clean so it can air unedited in the UK.

Haven't seen it yet, obviously (what's that all about? I would have thought they'd at least air on the same night, but hey ho! - it's Thursday for us) but this warrants a slight clarification I think. In the UK we don't really have the same split of cable/network suitability, although it does exist to a very small degree. It certainly isn't the case that swearing or nudity wouldn't happen on a terrestrial channel, this is something that would be covered by the timing of the broadcast. In an adult-audience programme, like Torchwood kind of is, intended for broadcast after the so-called 'watershed', swearing and nudity are not at all unknown. Where we tend to see more restrictions is on levels of violence which air.

[Shakes]

I watched last night. I enjoyed the show. I went ahead and set up my DVR to record the series. Does anybody know how many episodes we'll get his first go around? I was a little disappointed they didn't give us a two hour premiere.

[Dewey Finn]

Ten episodes, according to Wikipedia.

[enalzi]

I enjoyed it. Not quite as good as Children Of Earth (there was no great "We are coming back" moment), but still loads better than the first two seasons. If the show sticks around, they better stick to this sort of "mini-series" format. It's clearly working for them.

I loved the whole "autopsy" scene with the doctor who had no idea to even describe what they were seeing. Although after they cut off the guy's head, my first thought was "destroy the brain!"

[Lightnin']

Anyone know when it's going to be on Hulu or Netflix? I really want to see it, but I really don't otherwise have a need for Starz.

[aceplace57]

This...
For those with DirecTV, episode 1 is also airing several times this weekend on the Audience Network, channel 101.

or
http://xfinitytv.comcast.net/tv/Torchwood%3A-Miracle-Day/171389/2023446129/Ep-101---The-New-World/videos

[RandMcnally]

Anyone know when it's going to be on Hulu or Netflix? I really want to see it, but I really don't otherwise have a need for Starz.

The first episode was on the Starz website. I don't know they're going to continue like that. I hope, because I don't have cable.

[Dewey Finn]

I'd be surprised if they do have the remaining episodes on their website. (Since that would make it unnecessary to subscribe to the cable channel.)

[RandMcnally]

I'd be surprised if they do have the remaining episodes on their website. (Since that would make it unnecessary to subscribe to the cable channel.)

Yeah, I would be as well. But I can dream...

[levdrakon]

It was okay, but pretty slow. I don't think they'll grab a ton of new viewers like that.

What's with the Wales humor they hamfisted in? The CIA guy bitched because there's a bridge and you have to pay a toll. I guess Brits would think that's funny somehow? Sure seemed like I was supposed to be laughing about something. Wales is like New Jersey? So?

Is this a season, like the original Torchwood, or is this a long miniseries kind of thing like Children of Earth?

It's nice to see Gwen and Jack (and Gwen's hubby and Andy her old cop buddy) again. They were the anchors of the old team anyway.

As for the story, I'm thinking burning should do the trick. If people aren't healing or reconstituting, that has to be permanent, right?

If I were that rapist murderer guy, I wouldn't be so quick to return to the public. Think what an angry mob could do to him now.

[RandMcnally]

What's with the Wales humor they hamfisted in? The CIA guy bitched because there's a bridge and you have to pay a toll. I guess Brits would think that's funny somehow? Sure seemed like I was supposed to be laughing about something. Wales is like New Jersey? So?

I actually chuckled a bit at that part. IMHO I didn't think it was a specifically Wales thing but that he was so flustered he'd bitch about anything. It's like one of those days when nothing's going right so you bitch about a stupid red light, even though it doesn't make any sense.

[Oslo Ostragoth]

OK, obviously a lot happened in Children of Earth. Is there a place to watch it online?

[enalzi]

OK, obviously a lot happened in Children of Earth. Is there a place to watch it online?

It's on Netflix Instant Watch.

[fiddlesticks]

I liked it. I've been paying for Starz for years (I watch enough TV that I don't mind paying for the "platinum package") and it was nice to actually watch it. I thought the "Bridge to Wales" was a in-joke until I looked at a map and realized that was exactly -the- Bridge to Wales. :) Guess I'm not up on the geography of Great Britain as I thought.

The trailer for the Kelsey Grammar series The Boss made that sound intriguing. May be watching Starz this fall as well.

[Invisible Chimp]

I'm very curious what role the Death Row inmate will play. None of the Americans are likable. WTF are they gonna do with baby? This is a short season, by US standards, and because I loved Children of Earth, I'm in it for the season.

[enalzi]

I'm very curious what role the Death Row inmate will play. None of the Americans are likable. WTF are they gonna do with baby? This is a short season, by US standards, and because I loved Children of Earth, I'm in it for the season.

Didn't they say the baby was going to go to Gwen's mom?

[Dewey Finn]

So are we going with open spoilers, even though the episode has yet to air in the UK?

As for the baby, I can't remember if they said that she was going to Gwen's mom, but it makes sense. I can't see them running around with the baby. BTW, did you notice that when Jack showed up in the US, he gave his name as "Owen Harper?" And who was shooting at Gwen and Rhys? Also, who sent the message "Torchwood?" I doubt they're the same people doing both.

[Invisible Chimp]

Didn't they say the baby was going to go to Gwen's mom?

That was before they found out they were being renditioned to America. I suppose they still could do that, though.

[enalzi]

So are we going with open spoilers, even though the episode has yet to air in the UK?

As for the baby, I can't remember if they said that she was going to Gwen's mom, but it makes sense. I can't see them running around with the baby. BTW, did you notice that when Jack showed up in the US, he gave his name as "Owen Harper?" And who was shooting at Gwen and Rhys? Also, who sent the message "Torchwood?" I doubt they're the same people doing both.

Maybe we could get "Spoilers - American pace" (ala the Doctor Who thread) added to the title.

[levdrakon]

And who was shooting at Gwen and Rhys?I was wondering about that. It seemed clear if anyone from Torchwood surfaced, they'd be hunted and killed. I don't remember them making that sort of enemy, though.

[Merijeek]

I actually chuckled a bit at that part. IMHO I didn't think it was a specifically Wales thing but that he was so flustered he'd bitch about anything. It's like one of those days when nothing's going right so you bitch about a stupid red light, even though it doesn't make any sense.

After we watched it my wife decided she didn't remember enough of 'Children of Earth' and so we've started rewatching that. When Gwen goes to see Clem McDonald in the group home she's on her phone with Rhys and comments on the bridge.

And I disagree with most of the folks here. The cute blonde was cute and likable. The hyperactive black guy, on the other hand, I could happily do without.

I was wondering about that. It seemed clear if anyone from Torchwood surfaced, they'd be hunted and killed. I don't remember them making that sort of enemy, though.

Yeah, I don't know if they'll inform us or not, but something must have happened after the end of 'Children of Earth' that would make them kill-on-sight targets. Unless it was just their bringing down all those politicians. I doubt it, though, seeing as how I don't think, if you're hiding from the top levels of the UK government, that you'd want to be hiding out in witness protection in the UK.

My favorite part was Gwen grabbing the earmuffs and putting them on the baby before shooting at the helicopter. There's mothering instincts for you!

-Joe

[Scubaqueen]

I actually chuckled a bit at that part. IMHO I didn't think it was a specifically Wales thing but that he was so flustered he'd bitch about anything. It's like one of those days when nothing's going right so you bitch about a stupid red light, even though it doesn't make any sense.

i used to live in new jersey just outside of new york, and believe me, the wales crack made me laugh out loud. :D

for the record, good start to the new season and hopefully continued good story progress. i'm definitely in it for the long haul - ordered starz last month.

[Drunky Smurf]

- ordered starz last month.

I ordered last week. DirecTV had a deal. Normally a pay channel is $13 a month but they had a bundle of Starz and Showtime for 3 months for $13 a month. Worked out perfect and Tourchwood should be over by then and then I'm going to cancel the bundle.

[jharvey963]

I ordered last week. DirecTV had a deal. Normally a pay channel is $13 a month but they had a bundle of Starz and Showtime for 3 months for $13 a month. Worked out perfect and Tourchwood should be over by then and then I'm going to cancel the bundle.

Note that you can also get a $25 rebate from Starz after subscribing for 3 months. Here's the offer page:

http://www.starzoffers.com/

I signed up for Starz only on DirecTV for about $10 / month. So I figure Miracle Day will end up costing me about $5 net.

J.

[jharvey963]

I ordered last week. DirecTV had a deal. Normally a pay channel is $13 a month but they had a bundle of Starz and Showtime for 3 months for $13 a month. Worked out perfect and Tourchwood should be over by then and then I'm going to cancel the bundle.

Note that you can also get a $25 rebate from Starz after subscribing for 3 months. Here's the offer page:

http://www.starzoffers.com/

I signed up for Starz only on DirecTV for about $10 / month. So I figure Miracle Day will end up costing me about $5 net.

J.

[Lute Skywatcher]

Waiting for the DVD here. Not paying for Starz just to get one show.

[Lips_Obsession]

I believe I read on one of the Doctor Who sites that there will be some scenes in the US version not in the UK version and vice-versa... Not sure why on either tho....

[Dewey Finn]

I hope they don't do that (have differences between the UK and US versions), as it's going to make threads like this confusing.

[levdrakon]

Different US & UK scenes usually involve nudity, sex, cursing etc. Generally it doesn't change the story or continuity or anything.

[Uosdwis R. Dewoh]

Probably just in show advertisement removed from the British version as the BBC isn't allowed to do that sort of thing. In the British version Jack won't comment on what a cool car the Nissan Vectra (or whatever) is, instead he'll just get into the car.

[Merijeek]

Probably just in show advertisement removed from the British version as the BBC isn't allowed to do that sort of thing. In the British version Jack won't comment on what a cool car the Nissan Vectra (or whatever) is, instead he'll just get into the car.

Well, when we get to Gwen's full frontal scene I'd appreciate it if everyone would inform me as to which version it appeared in.

Appropos of nothing, anyone seen "101 Ways to Leave a Game Show"? It really sucks, but the MC (or whatever) looks like he could be Jack Harkness's younger brother. If they ever need a younger Gray, I've found him. Gimme my casting bucks!

-Joe

[aceplace57]

It just gets better and better. I'm not sure if some fans will like the slower paced character development. I love it myself. I know Russell T Davies is giving us a seat on a roller coaster and we'll have wall to wall action very soon.

This was a very strong episode for Gwen. I'll put my other comment in spoiler tags.

I appreciate that Russell T. Davies has the confidence to take his time and give us an episode that helps develop the characters.

We see that Rex doesn't care much for Jack or Torchwood. He much rather lead the investigation and simply use Jack & Gwen as bait for whoever wants them dead. I doubt Rex will ever be a full Torchwood member that follows Jack blindly. There's always going to be tension between them.

Russell is doing a good job fleshing out Rex's character. It'll be fun seeing how he reacts to the CIA's betrayal. Rex has no choice except to work with Torchwood. I don't think he's going to like it. But he has no other options.

We also saw tension and resentment from Gwen. She's still got anger towards Jack and what happened to the team. We learned a lot in this episode.

[aceplace57]

Jane Espenson was a writer/producer on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Battlestar Galactica, and she's also a writer/producer for Torchwood Miracle Day.

She's blogging a few comments. Here is the link for ep 1. She'll probably post ep 2's blog in a few days. She also posted some live comments on Twitter while episode 1 aired in the UK last Thursday.

http://www.afterelton.com/tv/2011/07/jane-espenson-torchwood-miracle-day-one

[LawMonkey]

So I'm guessing from the thread that you kind of need to be up on your Torchwood continuity for this one to work, right? I managed to miss the finales of both original seasons and then never bothered to watch Children of Earth because I'd missed the finale of the second season. (Also because I'd been spoiled by Doctor Who by that point.) I'd give this a shot, but I'm not enough of a fan to rewatch the first two seasons plus Children of Earth to do it...

[Dewey Finn]

Not at all. I don't think you'll have any problem following along even if you've never seen any previous episode of Torchwood. Very little of the first two episodes have referred to anything that occurred before.

[typoink]

So I'm guessing from the thread that you kind of need to be up on your Torchwood continuity for this one to work, right? I managed to miss the finales of both original seasons and then never bothered to watch Children of Earth because I'd missed the finale of the second season. (Also because I'd been spoiled by Doctor Who by that point.) I'd give this a shot, but I'm not enough of a fan to rewatch the first two seasons plus Children of Earth to do it...

Actually, no. Miracle Day was built to be viewable as a standalone. As long as you know who the main characters are in short, you're fine. There's some backstory allusions you might miss, but nothing that should break the series. Everything important is either obvious or spelled out directly.

[jackdavinci]

I quite enjoyed the second episode. Loved seeing the actresses from Dollhouse and Six Feet Under. And the doctor team trying to figure out how to create an antidote out of random things on an airplane. It was very House meets MacGyver! Things are heating up.

[SanVito]

What's with the Wales humor they hamfisted in? The CIA guy bitched because there's a bridge and you have to pay a toll. I guess Brits would think that's funny somehow? Sure seemed like I was supposed to be laughing about something. Wales is like New Jersey? So?


Just wanted to clarify this joke, which would be funny to Brits. To travel to South Wales from England you have to cross the Severn Bridge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severn_Bridge), for which you pay a toll if you're coming from England, but it's free if you're coming the other way (Wales > England), so the Welsh like to joke that it's a tax on the English.

[Scubaqueen]

fell off the couch lmao with the visual of the oriental chick staggering around with her head on backwards. RTD does have a twisted sense of humor at times... :D

[LawMonkey]

Thanks, guys. I'll be checking out the first ep online when I've got a chance.

[Folacin]

I'm not sure if the medical worries are mainline to the story, but I'm curious about the super-bug/resistance they talk about.

Heroine doctor has figured out that there is no longer a 'golden hour' - no one is dying. Assuming that we give people antibiotics so that they live long enough for their bodies natural defenses to defeat the infection - is it reasonable to assume that (after much suffering/puking/etc) that the body would throw off most infections, viral or otherwise?

[Merijeek]

I'm not sure if the medical worries are mainline to the story, but I'm curious about the super-bug/resistance they talk about.

Heroine doctor has figured out that there is no longer a 'golden hour' - no one is dying. Assuming that we give people antibiotics so that they live long enough for their bodies natural defenses to defeat the infection - is it reasonable to assume that (after much suffering/puking/etc) that the body would throw off most infections, viral or otherwise?

Who knows? I think part of the idea is that anything could be going on and nobody knows. Unintended consequences and all that. Maybe everyone becomes a walking supergerm, which is great, up until immortality wears off. Or, better yet, what happens if you get Ebola and it DOESN'T kill you?

-Joe

[typoink]

Does anybody know why the name "Esther Drummond" seems so familiar to me? I didn't even watch the trailers for this, but as soon as her name was said, my brain said, "Hey, I've heard that before." Googling it didn't turn up any obvious answers, though.

Was there a reference to this character in previous Torchwood or Who or any similarly-named characters in other geeky TV?

[Uosdwis R. Dewoh]

I was positively surprised they actually given thought on the repercussions a scenario like miracle day might bring. RTD usually glosses over the details. Maybe working with Americans has given the show the focus it has often lacked.

Some things that puzzled me. In the show they found out that human cells aren't dying but we're still ageing. Isn't old age a product of cells dying out faster than new ones are created? And if cells aren't dying but presumably still duplicating, wouldn't humans quickly turn into massive blobs as the old cells aren't dying to make room for the new ones?

[enalzi]

Does anybody know why the name "Esther Drummond" seems so familiar to me? I didn't even watch the trailers for this, but as soon as her name was said, my brain said, "Hey, I've heard that before." Googling it didn't turn up any obvious answers, though.

Was there a reference to this character in previous Torchwood or Who or any similarly-named characters in other geeky TV?

Honestly, every time I hear her name I think of "Wester Drumlins," the house from the Doctor Who episode "Blink."

[typoink]

Honestly, every time I hear her name I think of "Wester Drumlins," the house from the Doctor Who episode "Blink."

Holy thank you, Batman! That's absolutely, absolutely it.

[aceplace57]

3rd episode is the first one written by Jane Espenson. She delivered in spades. Nicely paced episode and we are slowly learning more. I'm not sure we know who caused Miracle Day, but we certainly know who plans to capitalize on it.

I didn't think the sex scenes were appropriate. With everything going on I have trouble believing Jack or the Doctor felt very horny. I guess the bare skin will bring in the ratings. BTW they weren't boffing each other. ;)
Previews have showed the weird people in masks. Interesting consequence of Miracle Day. People would react to it in many different ways. Some getting drunk, sex, and others religion etc. I'm glad RTD and the writers are exploring this.

[aceplace57]

Series preview shown at Comic-con this weekend. Best series preview so far.
http://www.radiofreeskaro.com/2011/07/22/torchwood-miracle-day-comic-con-preview/

[typoink]

I didn't think the sex scenes were appropriate. With everything going on I have trouble believing Jack or the Doctor felt very horny. I guess the bare skin will bring in the ratings.

I think, at this point, it's a safe bet that Jack Harkness is pretty much a straightahead sex addict, and I'd also assume mortality is going to bring out his established thrillseeker behavior.

The scene with the doctor, well, a little more gratuitous. You'd be stunned how little I'm complaining.

[aceplace57]

Jane Espenson's blog on the third episode. She wrote this episode.
http://www.afterelton.com/tv/2011/07/jane-espenson-torchwood-miracle-day-three

Torchwood was very lucky to get some of the best U.S. sci-fi writers to collaborate with Russel T Davies. Jane and Doris Egan are A list in every way.

[jackdavinci]

Another decent episode, though the personal calls started getting irritating. The car crusher was particularly chilling. I'm not quite sure what PhiCorp's endgame is with regards to Oswald. It seems like they set up the Death is Death lady to promote their segregation camps, but then replaced her with Oswald when he became popular again. But Oswald seems to be anti-camps, so it's not clear how that's going to work out for them.

I liked the "he was just about to tell us!" and "This is disgusting" / "I know!" bits.

I wonder if the 'blast from Jack's past' is a villain we've seen or heard about before. I'm calling it now - I think they are vampires. They'll soon have an unending supply of food!

[Folacin]

But Oswald seems to be anti-camps, so it's not clear how that's going to work out for them.

Oswald is anti-"Dead is Dead". The camps (per Gwen's husband) are being spun as the best possible place to take loving care of people who need extended care. The hospital Oswald was in was probably purposely set up as a hellhole (unlikely that all of those places 'accidently' sent people too early) - the camps will be spun as a humane alternative. Oswald's little performance was all about taking care of people.

I'm calling it now - I think they are vampires.

I like this. Are there vampires in the Who-verse (Dr., not Cindy Lou)? Since I understand this is a spin-off of some sort?

[Kamino Neko]

Are there vampires in the Who-verse

Yes. Quite a few different varieties of them, in fact.

There are regular human-turned-human-like-bloodsucker Vampires.

There are also...

Saturnynians
Plasmavores
Haemovores
Great Vampires (They created at least a couple of the normal-style vamps.)

And a couple others, but those 5 cover the ones that have been seen on-screen, AFAIK.

[levdrakon]

Hate to be pissy, but I thought most of the episode fairly sucked. A lot of that crap could have been put in a free webisode or something. The sex was completely out of left field, unneeded, and I'm embarrassed for them feeling they had to cram it in there to make the show "adult" or something.

Bleh. Hope it finds its feet, but they don't have much time left.

[aceplace57]

I liked most of the fourth episode. It moved a bit faster than the earlier ones. We're starting to see the ugly and disturbing side of Miracle Day. The public reaction to the undead will only get worse.

Oswald showed some brilliance in regaining his position as Miracle Day spokesman. I'm still not sure about this guy or what he will do. Bill Pullman is stealing the show with this character.

Mare Winningham did a good job playing the tea party lady. I still fondly remember her from St Elmos Fire. Seems so weird seeing her now middle-aged.

I'm getting very fed up with the personal phone calls. Esther & Gwen need a reality check. Even Rex visiting his drug dealer dad was very unprofessional. Torchwood better get its act together.
Best scene had to be crushing the car and entombing tea party lady forever. I don't think she'll be back. :D

[Dewey Finn]

Hate to be pissy, but I thought most of the episode fairly sucked. A lot of that crap could have been put in a free webisode or something. The sex was completely out of left field, unneeded, and I'm embarrassed for them feeling they had to cram it in there to make the show "adult" or something.

Bleh. Hope it finds its feet, but they don't have much time left.
Wait, I'm confused. Your location tag says you're in the US, but I think you're a week behind as the sex was in the third episode (Dead of Night), while the fourth one (Escape to L.A.) was what aired last night.

I find it hard to believe that Oswald could become such a public figure. When he picked up the baby in the hospital, I expected the other patients to be reviled but they were not.

And I'm trying to figure out how many factions there are. The character played by C. Thomas Howell who tracked them to the PhiCorp headquarters presumably works for someone else.

The idea that vampires are behind this sounds like a good one, although I don't know how they caused the miracle to occur.

[Folacin]

I find it hard to believe that Oswald could become such a public figure. When he picked up the baby in the hospital, I expected the other patients to be reviled but they were not.

Only the one old guy seemed to actually recognize him. Since these folks are the sickest of the sick, they may not be keeping up on the latest celebrities.

The public figure thing isn't that hard to accept - his survival would be news (as it happened on Miracle Day. And he's not universally (or even widely) loved (note his beat down last week).

With a PR push behind him and a seemingly good cause (care for the should be dead so that other people can get on with their lives) - I could see him swinging more public opinion his way.

[enalzi]

I'm happy we're finally getting to a real villain, other than "evil pharm company." Also, I seem to forget the premise of this show every ten minutes. I'm constantly going, "He's going to kill him! Oh, wait..."


I find it hard to believe that Oswald could become such a public figure. When he picked up the baby in the hospital, I expected the other patients to be reviled but they were not.

Yeah, the Oswald thing kinda bugs me too. You really think people would stop hating Casey Anthony if she started speaking about the debt crisis or the Iraq War?


And I'm trying to figure out how many factions there are. The character played by C. Thomas Howell who tracked them to the PhiCorp headquarters presumably works for someone else.


Howell was hired by the triangle people (who seem to be behind PhiCorp) to kill Jack, but I think he was so curious about the fact the Jack could die that he went off on his own.

[Dewey Finn]

But if C Thomas Howell's character worked for PhiCorp's backers, why did he need to go to such extremes to get access to the computer room?

BTW, I'm not enjoying this series as much as I did Children of Earth. Partly, it was that Children of Earth was shorter, and so it moved more quickly. Also, it aired over five consecutive nights, which helped to keep me interested.

[DigitalC]

The personal calls, unprofessionalism, etc is basically all par for the course for Torchwood. Remember Jack's plan in Children of the Earth was basically to run up to the alien and tell him "fuck you", he slept around with team members most of whom mis used alien technology. There's a reason everyone but Gwen is dead. Their modus operandi has always been extreme overconfidence backed up by a guy who can't die and their high casualty rate is the result.

[Folacin]

Also, Esther(? the CIA woman) isn't a professional field agent. She undoubtedly thought she was being careful - and will actually be careful in the future, now that she really understands what it is about.

[DigitalC]

She wasn't any less careful than the hypocrite CIA guy who went to see his dad.

[Boyo Jim]

Vampires? There are fuckin' VAMPIRES on the show? I've only seen the first episode and have been meaning to catch up watching the others using On Demand service, but fucking' vampires... Thanks for saving me the time... I think. Season two will have werevolves, I suppose.

[Kamino Neko]

Season 2 aired in 2008. This is the fourth season. But no, no werewolves (http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Werewolf)...those have been restricted to the Doctor's adventures, not Jack's.

Funnily enough, werewolves did show up in the second season of the current Doctor Who series (Tooth and Claw).

[enalzi]

Vampires? There are fuckin' VAMPIRES on the show? I've only seen the first episode and have been meaning to catch up watching the others using On Demand service, but fucking' vampires... Thanks for saving me the time... I think. Season two will have werevolves, I suppose.

People are just speculating that they're vampires (which I really doubt they are). And at least in NuWho, all the vampires/werewolves/other mythological creatures in the universe are really just aliens.

[jackdavinci]

Vampires? There are fuckin' VAMPIRES on the show?

I was only speculating. But it would amuse me greatly if that somehow became an uncontrolled rumor.

[Boyo Jim]

Thank god! I almost punched my TV.

[DigitalC]

It probably is vampires though.

[Eyebrows 0f Doom]

The guy in the server room said something like "the families will rise again." This season is supposed to be completely independent of Doctor Who, right? Now that they have different production teams? So I don't think that's going to end up referring to some previous villain.

[levdrakon]

Wait, I'm confused. Your location tag says you're in the US, but I think you're a week behind as the sex was in the third episode (Dead of Night), while the fourth one (Escape to L.A.) was what aired last night.I'm caught up now. :)

[Merijeek]

The guy in the server room said something like "the families will rise again." This season is supposed to be completely independent of Doctor Who, right? Now that they have different production teams? So I don't think that's going to end up referring to some previous villain.

"Families" had me wondering too. What could be the families?

The Family of Blood? Doesn't seem to be their style.

It obviously has to be someone with an absurd amount of Power - and that was a deliberate P.

-Joe

[typoink]

I enjoyed the last episode, but thought the cliffhangerish ending was awful. "Clues" to the identity of a former villain are only interesting if they can actually be deciphered. Otherwise they're just cryptic sentences.

[enalzi]

"Families" had me wondering too. What could be the families?

The Family of Blood? Doesn't seem to be their style.

It obviously has to be someone with an absurd amount of Power - and that was a deliberate P.

-Joe

The Family of Blood was my first guess, since they were trying to be immortal and all. But I really doubt that this will be a former Torchwood/Who villain. They're trying to go all new with this season it seems.

[Scubaqueen]

The Family of Blood was my first guess, since they were trying to be immortal and all. But I really doubt that this will be a former Torchwood/Who villain. They're trying to go all new with this season it seems.

my money's on someone(thing) out of jack's past that we don't know about, more than likely independent of the whoniverse. remember, longtime torchwood fans, captain cupcake Got Around, before and certainly after his tenure with the doc. who knows who/what he pissed off and for what reason?

he's what? something like three thousand years old - roughly estimating? that's plenty enuf time to make a lot of Very Important Enemies. :D

[DigitalC]

Three thousand? I thought a couple hundred.

[levdrakon]

Three thousand? I thought a couple hundred.If you include periods when he was buried for instance, he's much older than a couple hundred.

[Mr. Excellent]

I liked the bit where Rex is visibly annoyed with Jack's "You should have seen the other guy!" joke.

Jack: Oho! Rex doesn't like his jokes too gay!
Rex: No, I just don't like 40-year-old men acting like they're 20.

Setting aside the fact that Jack is actually rather older than that, the neat bit here is that Rex is actually *right*. Whether due to PTSD, the loss of his immortality, or whatever, Jack really is being wildly irresponsible - it's totally reasonable for Rex to be irritated, and it's neat that the writers are reminding us Jack is pretty deeply flawed as a character.

[DigitalC]

That whole conversation starting with "you are not the one who got impaled" was pure gold. I also like how Jack keeps alluding to how old he really is and Rex keeps treating him like he is crazy.

[Meltdown]

Question from a newbie (I haven't seen any of Seasons 1 through 3): in the episode before the last one, when Jack and Oswald were talking, right before the PhiCorp guys came and "escorted" Jack out of the building, the conversation turned to Oswald's murder of the girl. And I'm pretty sure Oswald, after describing the murder and the feeling he got as she died, said something like "Do you know how that feels, Jack? I think you do." And the look on Jack's face kind of made me think that he did indeed know how that felt (although I suppose it could have just been shock and/or disgust).

So -- anything to that? I'm assuming Jack has killed people in his career, but has he ever derived any pleasure out of it? Or am I reading too much into the scene?

Thanks!

[aceplace57]

Jack had to sacrifice his grandson in the previous series, Children of the Earth. I choose not to watch much of COE. I wasn't comfortable with the plot.

They realise that the audio signal used to kill Clement could be used against the 456. However, it requires that one child act as the focal point for the transmission, likely killing him or her. Jack is left with no choice but to use his daughter Alice's son, Steven, who is the only child immediately available to them. Jack and Johnson successfully send the signal, amplified through all the other children, and the 456 suffer in pain before withdrawing from the earth. Steven dies and Alice becomes enraged with Jack.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torchwood:_Children_of_Earth

[aceplace57]

Jane Espenson is live tweeting comments on episode 4 as it airs in the UK.
https://twitter.com/#!/JaneEspenson

[LaurenIpsum]

One thing about this series is bugging me. I tend to be a nitpicker, to the point where my husband tries to discourage me from watching Dr. Who at bedtime because then I will be up half the night thinking about it.

Anyway, so far we've seen that the Miracle brings a different sort of immortality than what Jack used to have. His injuries used to heal on their own, but in this case, people still get sick and injured, but just remain alive and in pain.

However, they are being inconsistent with how much people are affected by their injuries. There was the woman that Dr. Juarez was examining, whose husband tried to strangle her to death, and now she is a vegetable. However, that CIA woman got her neck twisted and all she ended up with was a backwards head. She was not in any visible pain and was able to get up and walk around. Someone even makes a comment about how she should have been paralyzed, but wasn't because of the miracle. Well then, why are other people seemingly affected enough that they can't just get up and act normal despite their injuries? (For example, the people in the hospital with Oswald.)

I guess I don't really have a question, just wanted to throw out that nitpick.

I also think there's more to Oswald Danes. I have a feeling that it isn't just mere coincidence that his execution was the same day as Miracle Day.

[Dewey Finn]

Based on the description of the episode scheduled to air in the US today, I think we should get some answers as to the nature of the miracle and who is behind it.

[Merijeek]

If you include periods when he was buried for instance, he's much older than a couple hundred.

Yeah, we really have no idea as to how old Jack actually is at this point. We know he's 40ish, plus 2000 years buried underground, plus a little bit extra.

We don't know how much time-hopping he's done though.

Also, a thought that's (technically) a Doctor Who spoiler...


Assuming Jack is actually the Face of Boe, and he's a fixed time and point in space that should live together, could it be Miracle Day sucking energy out of him that makes Jack (eventually) die?


-Joe

[Merijeek]

In that spoiler the word "together" should obviously be "forever". Duuuuuh.

-Joe

[barney5_99]

According to this interview with John Barrowman (http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2011/07/john_barrowman_1.html),

true that

[barney5_99]

I just wonder if we will have an appearence of the Doctor during the series, or Jack in the new season of Doctor Who...

[Folacin]

I'm confused about what step 2 could possibly be:

1) Burn the mostly dead (shut up, you're not getting better)
2) ??
3) Profit!

I don't know that I have any large moral qualms about what they're doing (other than the issue of misclassification - the brain dead are an obvious case, and then you have to draw a line somewhere that I don't know where is), and I see where they need to do it with as much secrecy as possible (c.f. Terri Schiavo). I just don't see what PhiCorp could be getting out of it to want to take the PR hit if people get upset about what happened to grandma.

But I suppose that's why I'm not a TV show writer.

[aceplace57]

I'll never listen to Smoke gets in Your Eyes again without thinking of Torchwood. :( Damn you RTD!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57tK6aQS_H0

[aceplace57]

They are speculating now on Gallifrey Base whether the pile of ashes is still alive and aware of their condition.

<shudder>

RTD came up with a pretty horrifying concept. Puts him up there with Steven King. Some of the Torchwood writers said they even discussed miscarriages and the premature fetus living on Miracle Day. :eek: I hope that wasn't really used in any scripts.

[Nicest of the Damned]

They are speculating now on Gallifrey Base whether the pile of ashes is still alive and aware of their condition.

<shudder>



I was wondering about this since we already saw a badly burned man that would not die. And how horrible would it be to say, fall off a boat and be stuck in the ocean forever without being able to drown?

Also wondering what would eventually happen to the Mare Winningham character trapped in the crushed car. She can't die of thirst or starvation. Will she just slowly get all dessicated and shriveled and turn into a skeleton over months or years, knowing where she is the whole time?

I have been enjoying the series but I didn't really care for the most recent episode. The evil guy at the overflow camp was so over the top, he just seemed like a caricature. And I don't entirely buy Dr. Juarez's actions. I know she feels very strongly about caring for patients but she knew she was in a dangerous position. I would think she would have played it cool so she could go back and tell the others what she found instead of getting angry and telling the guy she would put him in prison. And she should realize by now this whole thing goes pretty high up and this guy would probably have powerful people protecting him.

[aceplace57]

I don't see much value in killing such a brand new character. I had just begun to get interested in Vera Her death would have more impact if it were later, maybe ep9. Then we'd have a reason to care.

As you mentioned, her death was so badly written. Come on. Who's stupid enough to confront the camp warden inside their own camp? She was practically begging to get knocked off. Common sense tells us that she should play it cool. Don't comment too much on anything bad. Get out of the camp and then report it.

That's how I'd write it. She plays it cool. Gets out of the camp. Reports it and that person kills her. At least then we have a character that showed good common sense.

[holmes]

That's how I'd write it. She plays it cool. Gets out of the camp. Reports it and that person kills her. At least then we have a character that showed good common sense.

I think a big part of the show is that untrained people do stupid things and die because of it. I don't know that the average hot tempered person who was already pissed at the guy, would have enough common sense to play it cool.

I mean we all know people in real life whose common sense leaves them at the most dangerous moments and if characters in fiction behaved with common sense, we would lose whole genres.

That being said, I really was beginning to warm to character.

It was clear that she felt the guy was impotent and wasn't a threat. The mistake was that the guy was a 'nazi' and had already rationalized his actions.

[Nicest of the Damned]

I think a big part of the show is that untrained people do stupid things and die because of it.

I see your point but somehow the whole thing with Vera in the overflow camp just didn't ring true for me. Other stuff like Esther going to visit her sister I could believe (but why was she surprised when CPS took her sister's kids away? What did she think was going to happen?). And I wonder if she will ever find out that the visit caused Nicholas (the guy who designed the security system for Phicorp) to get maimed, even though the rest of the Torchwood crew got out mostly unscathed.

I also thought it was kind of crazy how they drove in together and Esther got out of the car while they were in line to drive in to the camp. Then the whole "pretend you don't know me in there." She should have gotten out well before they were in sight of the camp. I would think that would have been planned out better with some of the more experienced members of the team.

It was clear that she felt the guy was impotent and wasn't a threat.
I can see how the guy came off as a wimp but she was clearly in a dangerous situation and could have put Esther in danger as well. She is strong willed but she is smarter than that, IMHO. And smart enough to see that the world has changed and she can't be sure the old rules will apply anymore or that the same power structure is in place. Does she really believe no one in the government or military or law enforcement knows what is going on in the camps?

I just think the whole thing could have been written better and was disappointed by much of this episode. Be interesting to see how Gwen's situation gets resolved though.

I also think Oswald would be more believable if he had been someone who had say, killed someone while robbing a bank or something. I just can't buy a child rapist-murderer as any kind of folk hero, no matter how sorry he seems or how charismatic he might be.

[holmes]

I agree that the writing was a bit clumsy, but I think Vera's behaviour in the overflow camp was a realistic portrayal of her character.

We have a saying, "book smart but life stupid" and people like Vera who reach a certain level of confidence, power (remember she mentioned that she wrote the procedures / the rules that Colin was abusing) are so used to being in control, that they lose the ability to realize when they are in over their head. Especially when the threat would not be a threat in normal circumstances.

Vera believed that the problem wasn't the 'government', but that the systems weren't being followed or weren't designed correctly by individuals, such as Colin.
So if she wasn't 'part' of Torchwood and found out the same information, she would have sought out an official and still ended up dead, as you suggested, because she didn't understand the new world order.

Vera says that Colin represented the very thing she was afraid of the most, petty people granted power over the weak, this is a constant theme of Torchwood.

So while I think your example of Vera being killed by an outside agent would have shown the depth of the problem, it would have been unnecessary because we already know how powerful the organization is.

That being said, I don't think Vera needed to die to expose the ovens, as Gwen figured it out or to make what I consider a link to the Nazi's meme of the average man becoming a inhuman monster, when they are granted power; which is being reinforced by Oswald as Hitler and the categories of people.

Unfortunately, I am not so sure how off the mark the depicted level of society's acceptance of a 'reformed' Oswald would reach.

[Merijeek]

I don't see the argument - what Vera did was undoubtedly stupid. However, it was also understandable. Keep in mind that she didn't know what was going on there - she thought they had a shitty system that was the best that could be arrived at in a really short time. Instead, it was a shitty system that was being made even worse by a penny pinching bureaucrat who was causing undue suffering just to keep his numbers looking good. So, she lost her cool. Stupid? Definitely. But believable.

The thing I didn't get is why Rex's first visit to the Module had cold walls like it was refrigerated. Which seems unnecessary in a crematorium. It annoys me because my first guess was that the things were ovens and then I was thrown off by the fact that they seemed refrigerated...

-Joe

[holmes]

The thing I didn't get is why Rex's first visit to the Module had cold walls like it was refrigerated. Which seems unnecessary in a crematorium. It annoys me because my first guess was that the things were ovens and then I was thrown off by the fact that they seemed refrigerated...

-Joe

If the walls were thick and coated with a heat resistant material, they would feel cool, maybe cold to the touch. I think Rex would think, "cool walls to keep the bodies 'fresh' and heat out", as opposed to, "cool walls because they are insulated to keep heat in".

[levdrakon]

I just think the whole thing could have been written better and was disappointed by much of this episode. Be interesting to see how Gwen's situation gets resolved though.That pretty much sums up how I feel about the show right now. It just doesn't seem like a professionally finished product.

I can't figure Jack out at all. His character has been replaced by a new character and I don't know who he is, and there hasn't been an explanation for it. Sure, he's been through some stuff, but I can't tell at all in what ways that was supposed to have changed him, and Gwen doesn't act like he's different.

[Merijeek]

I can't figure Jack out at all. His character has been replaced by a new character and I don't know who he is, and there hasn't been an explanation for it. Sure, he's been through some stuff, but I can't tell at all in what ways that was supposed to have changed him, and Gwen doesn't act like he's different.

Jack went from immortal to the most vulnerable person on the planet. It's kind of understandable that he'd be a bit different.

-Joe

[Annie]

I'm more peeved that he's turned into a secondary character. Gwen's still kicking it, thankfully.

[holmes]

I'm more peeved that he's turned into a secondary character. Gwen's still kicking it, thankfully.

That may be one of the most interesting turns. What made Jack so powerful, was that he was immortal and could take stupid risks, knowing that he could eventually outlast his enemies; it was often his team that paid the price.

The ability to rush head first into any situation without dying, would turn any person into a primary character.

With that ability removed, now he's the only person who can't rush head first into danger. That reality would naturally turn him into a figure who needs to stay in the background in order to stay alive. He literally can't afford to be anything other than a secondary character.

I would love to see Gwen become even more kick ass, as the reality of her relative immortality becomes more matter of fact to her.

[Broomstick]

You know, since presumably the immortality thing will be taken away at some point, things could get really ugly between the moment people are mortal again and the time those same people figure out that they have to go back to their prior caution.

[levdrakon]

Jack went from immortal to the most vulnerable person on the planet. It's kind of understandable that he'd be a bit different.

-JoeI guess. It doesn't seem obvious to me that's the reason he seems different. Plus, he was a very mortal risk-taking adventurer before becoming immortal, and even as an immortal, he was never really keen on getting hurt unless he had to, since it still hurts.

[Dewey Finn]

I also think Oswald would be more believable if he had been someone who had say, killed someone while robbing a bank or something. I just can't buy a child rapist-murderer as any kind of folk hero, no matter how sorry he seems or how charismatic he might be.
That bothers me too, especially since I'm not seeing any charisma. But I suppose the idea is that the Miracle Day is such a weird thing that people are responding in a different way.

I did like how Jack played up the gay lover bit when Rex was being taken away. That was funny.

BTW, the Onion AV Club write-up of the episode suggested that perhaps whoever is behind this (presumably aliens; it's always aliens) wants "magical living people dust" or living cremains.

[Merijeek]

I guess. It doesn't seem obvious to me that's the reason he seems different. Plus, he was a very mortal risk-taking adventurer before becoming immortal, and even as an immortal, he was never really keen on getting hurt unless he had to, since it still hurts.

Well, the only other time we knew Jack before his immortality was when he was in WW2 with 51st century technology. That would probably make me seem pretty cool too.

-Joe

[Nicest of the Damned]

I agree that the writing was a bit clumsy, but I think Vera's behaviour in the overflow camp was a realistic portrayal of her character.

We have a saying, "book smart but life stupid" and people like Vera who reach a certain level of confidence, power (remember she mentioned that she wrote the procedures / the rules that Colin was abusing) are so used to being in control, that they lose the ability to realize when they are in over their head. Especially when the threat would not be a threat in normal circumstances.
But she was staying with two CIA agents who are in hiding and if I remember correctly she was at the meeting where they were discussing how the satellite images had been changed to hide the modules. Clearly she is in some deep shit here. I just don't believe she is that "life stupid." YMMV.

So if she wasn't 'part' of Torchwood and found out the same information, she would have sought out an official and still ended up dead, as you suggested, because she didn't understand the new world order.
That would have made a much better story, IMHO.

Unfortunately, I am not so sure how off the mark the depicted level of society's acceptance of a 'reformed' Oswald would reach.
Well Casey Anthony was acquitted of "just" murder, not even rape and people won't let it go. Sure, some of that is because it was her own daughter but I can't think of any pedophiles who have gotten any real public support. Bonnie and Clyde types, sure but not child rapists.

Anyway, I will keep an open mind for next week. I do think the whole premise is pretty interesting and horrifying. I shudder to think what aliens would do with magical living people dust. Hopefully it's going somewhere good. And I am more hopeful about Gwen's storyline.

[holmes]

Well Casey Anthony was acquitted of "just" murder, not even rape and people won't let it go. Sure, some of that is because it was her own daughter but I can't think of any pedophiles who have gotten any real public support. Bonnie and Clyde types, sure but not child rapists.

Well I know people (men) who think she is drop dead gorgeous and would have no qualms against sleeping with her. Hell if she gets a book/movie deal, the money would only make her more attractive to some. So while some people won't let it go, others want to 'tap that ass' and bath in the glow however tainted it may be and she is not a fictional construct.

So in regards to the new normal of Miracle Day, where millions of people have lost their bearings, I just don't know whether or not the child rapist part is remembered or considered by the millions of people who are the living dead or are with the living dead and are viewing Oswald through the filter of the media.

Although we have seen that there are still some people who consider and treat Oswald as a pariah, it usually only occurs when people have to deal with him personally, as when no one wanted to be in a dressing room with him; but they still were on the same program with him, as it benefited them.

[Apollyon]

BTW, the Onion AV Club write-up of the episode suggested that perhaps whoever is behind this (presumably aliens; it's always aliens) wants "magical living people dust" or living cremains. :eek: Oh goody, so they're suggesting that someone like the 456 wants to snuffle up human cocaine? Urk. *shudder*

[aceplace57]

Miracle day is somewhat misleading. People can't die. They are immortal.

That doesn't mean they can't be hurt. You still don't want to drive 200 mph on the freeway. Spending eternity brain dead and alive isn't much of a life. Or getting shot multiple times could leave you in tremendous pain for eternity.

Jack had the ideal situation. He couldn't die and he couldn't be injured for very long. He had perfect health no matter what risks he took.

[Boyo Jim]

He looks like he's got a lot of miles on him. How did that happen?

[aceplace57]

John Barrowman is getting older. :D I'm not sure how they'll explain Jack's aging if the show continues for more seasons.

[Broomstick]

They already did - in one of the Who episodes with Jack, back with the Tenth Doctor, he noted that he was showing signs of age. Jack may not be allowed to die and stay dead, but he certainly can change.

That was was also the scene where they dropped the large hint he becomes the Face of Bo - and if so that is one hell of a change, and it makes normal aging look pretty insignificant.

[DigitalC]

Vera acted like any doctor in that situation would have. Sure, the taunting was a little extreme but the guy had been sexually harassing her from the second he saw her, the urge to give him one big fuck you would have been too much for anyone.

[aceplace57]

I watched the episode again and realized Vera said she used her medical board contacts to get authorization to inspect that holding camp. Maloney was expecting Dr. Juarez and knew it was an official camp inspection. I suppose Vera thought that gave her some protection. Prior to Miracle Day, Maloney would never risk attacking an inspector. But, she badly misjudged the chaos of MD. No one on that medical board will ever come looking for her. Maloney knew that.

I still think Vera should have been more cautious. There is a certain irony that Vera wasn't killed by an assassin hired by PhiCorp. A limp dick, asshole bureaucrat killed her. A guy that usually would be considered very insignificant.

[LaurenIpsum]

I hate to sound anal-retentive (although I guess I am, ha!) but the inconsistency in the miracle is bugging me.

Prior to this episode, it seemed that the miracle, for the most part, was keeping people conscious. Like Rex when he was first taken to the hospital, or the guy who was blown up and all burned, but still conscious even when his head was detached. I think at one point one of the characters mentions this constant consciousness despite injuries/illness.

Now they seem to be saying that people with severe enough injuries will be brain dead, but technically still alive. What determines whether someone ends up brain dead or not? The blown-up guy, I assume had no way for blood to get to his brain, so he should have been brain dead. And Oswald Danes - even though he wasn't killed by his lethal injection, shouldn't it have caused enough damage to put him in Class 1 too?

Up until this point the miracle seemed to ensure that everyone would live forever (at least until the miracle ends). Now it seems like the miracle will just ensure that you live a long time until you become injured enough to be another Terry Schaivo.

As others have mentioned, I will be interested to see if they address whether burnt human ashes are still alive.

[Folacin]

One of the first episodes had a woman whose husband kept strangling her until she ended up brain dead. The doctor was complaining to a police officer, who said that they couldn't do anything since murder was an obsolete concept (although I'd think assault would have flown, but that's a different argument).

However, the burned guy and backward-head lady walking do seem out of what I'd think of as logical in what they're showing for most of the MD affect.

[levdrakon]

And Rex mentioned he's healing. That puts a new wrinkle in things, too.

[aceplace57]

Jane Espenson's blog on the fifth episode. She wrote this episode.
http://www.afterelton.com/tv/2011/08/jane-espenson-torchwood-miracle-day-five

Maloney.
He was a great character to write – he's a great condensed example of one of the key themes of this season – that the big enemy really is the sort of depths to which humanity will sink, not out of evil, but out of fear. He's that scared little human who plunges first into those depths.

[aceplace57]

Great episode tonight. Can't say much without spoiling.

Maloney is one sick S.O.B. It's going to take awhile to get this scene out of my head.

Glad to see Esther step up and kick butt.

Gwen, is just totally bad ass in this episode.

[enalzi]

I wasn't a big fan of this one. It just seemed to move really slowly. Every time they cut to a shot of Esther calling Vera I wanted to yell at the TV, "Get on with it already!" Gwen was really good though and it was nice to see Jack be his slick self again. Although I have to ask, when did Jack go from bisexual to straight up gay? He used to hit on anything with a pulse, not it seems to be strictly men.

[Smapti]

I wasn't a big fan of this one. It just seemed to move really slowly. Every time they cut to a shot of Esther calling Vera I wanted to yell at the TV, "Get on with it already!" Gwen was really good though and it was nice to see Jack be his slick self again. Although I have to ask, when did Jack go from bisexual to straight up gay? He used to hit on anything with a pulse, not it seems to be strictly men.

My guess would be sometime around when Steven Moffat lost creative control over the character to Russell T Davies.

[aceplace57]

I'm looking forward to ep7. It's supposed to feature only Jack and Gwen as they work out issues in their relationship and (hopefully) learn the secret behind Miracle Day.

I guess people noticed Oswald wasn't in ep 6. Rex, Esther & Oswald are good characters, but I'm glad we're finally getting one episode with only the old Torchwood team.

Previews for ep 7 show Gwen betraying Jack and taking him to the big bad dudes. I guess it's not surprising because Gwen's baby and husband mean more than her obligations to Jack and Torchwood. I hope this won't be a permanent split between Gwen and Jack. She betrayed him before at the end of S1 when she opened the rift to save Rhys. Damn near destroying the whole world in the process. Jack forgive that, so I bet he'll forgive this betrayal too.

[aceplace57]

Best episode yet. This came closest to the Torchwood I remember. As usual RTD pushes his gay agenda. But, he's always done that with this show. It'll take awhile to wash away the image of Jack's bare arse from my retinas. Still, this installment of the story was worth waiting for. Looks like the series will end on a great note. At least I'm hoping the last three episodes will be really good. ;)

I liked the religious metaphor a lot. Jack's bloody torture while hanging invokes the crucifixion. They even had a great shot of his bloody /crucified feet as Angelo wipes them off. Then the stunning image of the lady collecting the blood in a bottle. It's such a powerful image of communion.

I'll speculate now that Jack's blood has healing and rejuvenating properties. I bet Angelo and those three mob guys used it to stay young and keep alive until Miracle Day happens.

It looked like they drained blood from Jack for a long, long time. They may have gotten gallons of it over several days. Jack would die and come back to life with more, fresh blood. They could have drained him forever.

[Smapti]

I'm gonna have to say I was very disappointed in the big reveal.

So the entire reason the miracle happened, the entire reason the balance of life and death has been upset and the entire history of the world has been changed, is because Jack stuck his dick in the wrong guy 80 years ago ?

Just ONCE it would be nice to see Torchwood have to solve a problem that it didn't itself CAUSE.

[aceplace57]

I'm hoping there's more to this season's story than Jack's rejected gay lover too. That would be a huge disappointment.

[simster]

FINALLY -

we have the true meaning behind the Eagles 'Hotel California' :

'We stab it with our steely knives, but we just can't kill the beast'

(not to mention we finally get to who is behind this - and the triangle group is formed)

[Eyebrows 0f Doom]

As usual RTD pushes his gay agenda.
:rolleyes: Why no talk of RTD pushing his heterosexual agenda with Gwen, Rhys & the baby? And Rex and Vera?



So the entire reason the miracle happened, the entire reason the balance of life and death has been upset and the entire history of the world has been changed, is because Jack stuck his dick in the wrong guy 80 years ago ?

Well, that's just the cliffhanger. What effect, if any, that has actually had, will be revealed in the next episode.

[TBG]

:rolleyes::rolleyes: Come on. If RTD didn't have a gay agenda Jack would've knocked boots with Esther by now.:D

[aceplace57]

I wondered what happened to omnisexual Jack? Especially since the Starz show is introducing Jack to a new audience.

Older fans know Jack will screw anything that moves and has the appropriate orifice. He was always flirting with aliens, men, women and anything else that caught his eye. Better lock up the sheep and the dog too. :D

The Starz version of Jack is a dramatic change in the character. I miss the old Jack. A lot of the characters humor came from his constant flirting.

[Eyebrows 0f Doom]

:rolleyes::rolleyes: Come on. If RTD didn't have a gay agenda Jack would've knocked boots with Esther by now.:D

I'm sorry, but I just think it's pure bullshit when people trot out the old "gay agenda" card. What agenda is that anyway? Showing that, like the straight people on the same show, gay people have sex & fall in love?

Again I ask, RTD has written many straight characters. Why aren't you upset about his straight agenda?

[DSeid]

I'm sorry, but I just think it's pure bullshit when people trot out the old "gay agenda" card. What agenda is that anyway? Showing that, like the straight people on the same show, gay people have sex & fall in love?

Again I ask, RTD has written many straight characters. Why aren't you upset about his straight agenda?
While I agree that the word "agenda" carries more political baggage than is likely intended, I must observe that I have read no one being "upset" over the decision to make Jack exclusively gay and to show such in the same titillating manner that Starz and its like do with heterosexual sex fairly often.

When a producer is doing something that is different than the norm, and something that is a change in what has been the norm for an established character, it is reasonable believe that they are doing it with intent, and reasonable to wonder what that specific intent is without being upset over it. RTD has changed Jack into an exclusively gay character (and changing the essence of a character is always a bit jarring) and is filming very soft core gay love scenes with him for a reason. His reason may be indeed be as cynical as attempting to attract a gay male viewership; gays are a significant percent of our population, and in particular a group that may be a bit more likely to spring for a deluxe cable package that has gays presented in nonstereotypic ways, in modestly intelligent scripts (questionable for Torchwood so far), and with the same soft core treatment that heterosexuality gets. Or he could be out to normalize the treatment of gay romance in the media ... which would be an agenda of sorts. And one that many of us, gay and straight alike, can both note and agree with.

[Merijeek]

I think it's clear that RTD has an agenda, and honestly, the only reason it bothers me is that I'd like to see some Gwen and Esther ass to balance out the man ass on display. So, it's just the unfairness of it all - I suspect I'll get to see Rhys's wrinkly ass before Gwen's. Boo!

Anyway, I've seen a little discussion, but does anyone think that it all comes from the samples of Jack's blood? A powerful cabal who used Jack's blood to discover the secret of eternal life...Something that freaky and horribly traumatic could very well be enough to make the TARDIS run for it.

And I disagree with the below poster - the problem isn't caused because "Jack stuck his dick in the wrong guy 80 years ago", the problem is caused by Jack being outed and milked 80 years ago.

The only question, of course, is how it would affect EVERYONE at the same time.

I'm trying to remember how Jack would have ended up in the 1920's. The only time I can think of he would have been there he was buried under Cardiff. If he hadn't referenced Torchwood I'd say that it was during his Time Agent days...

-Joe

[levdrakon]

This might be my favorite episode yet. It felt more like a regular Torchwood story, and had a little less eye-rolly dumb in it.

The orientation of the love story was fine. I might have liked it a bit better if it weren't the third or fourth or fifth time we've seen Jack picking up guys. But, Jack likes guys.

He also clearly stated he's interested in lots of things, including the attractive woman on the balconey. He also recollected some clearly alien good times when he was in the confession booth, so I wouldn't state categorically Jack is all gay, all the time now. I would feel slightly better if he flirted with a palm tree or something once in awhile. :)

I can't prove it at the moment, but I could almost swear Jack has mentioned his blood doesn't do anything for people. Not normally anyway. I'm sure the superstitious mob wasn't the first to think of collecting his blood, and if he could save people with transfusions, I'm sure he would. He's lost a lot of friends.

Those three mysterious men who bought Jack while he was captive have to be involved somehow. I'm sure his old ex-lover is in fact all old and decrepit now, but he's probably also involved with the mysterious three. I'm just guessing.

[Boyo Jim]

Torchwood's Jack, now 30% more gay than in previous series!

[LaurenIpsum]

I'm trying to remember how Jack would have ended up in the 1920's. The only time I can think of he would have been there he was buried under Cardiff. If he hadn't referenced Torchwood I'd say that it was during his Time Agent days...


I may not have things exactly right, but this is what I've pieced together from the end of Torchwood's second season (the flashback episode where they showed how everyone joined) and the end of Doctor Who's third season (the 3-parter with Jack, the 10th Doctor, and Martha).

At the end of Doctor Who season 1, Rose had absorbed the heart of the Tardis and became all-powerful. The Doctor and Jack were fighting the Daleks in the year 50,000 or something. Jack had just been shot & killed, so she brought him back to life. After defeating the Daleks, and the Doctor regenerating, they left without him.

Jack later used his vortex manipulator (the thing on his wrist) to go back to the 20th century and find the Doctor, but he overshot and went back to the 1800s instead. There, due to some drunk talk about him being immortal, he was discovered by the original Torchwood and recruited for them. So then he had to "take the slow path," living through the next 100+ years in order to find the Doctor again in the 21st century. This is where we find him in the very first episode of "Torchwood." So at some point in the 1940s there were 2 Jacks because when we first met him in Doctor Who, he was temporarily posing as a 1940s military officer, which is where he took his name. Actually, there were 3 Jacks in the 1940s if you count the one buried underneath Torchwood for 2000 years.

When Jack finally met the Doctor in the 21st century, the Doctor revealed that when Rose revived him it made him a "fixed point in time" which meant immortal, and they left without him because the Doctor felt he was "wrong."

[Merijeek]

Good point. I'd forgotten about him going back in time and overshooting and getting recruited.

The thing about Jack #3 is that he was only there for a couple hours, so I don't think that one counts.

-Joe

[DigitalC]

I guess "the families" the hitman talked about are just run of the mill gangster families, aka the three guys who "bought" Jack.

[enalzi]

I can't prove it at the moment, but I could almost swear Jack has mentioned his blood doesn't do anything for people. Not normally anyway. I'm sure the superstitious mob wasn't the first to think of collecting his blood, and if he could save people with transfusions, I'm sure he would. He's lost a lot of friends.


Well, I don't think it was the blood directly that caused the miracle, since I doubt they gave a transfusion to every person on Earth. They probably spent the last 80 years figuring out how it worked.

I guess "the families" the hitman talked about are just run of the mill gangster families, aka the three guys who "bought" Jack.

Not quite run of the mill, since they formed the "triangle," which is pretty high tech and has infiltrated the government.

[aceplace57]

WAG Based on the typecasting of the actors, it looked they represented the black, Jewish, and Italian mobs.

[enalzi]

WAG Based on the typecasting of the actors, it looked they represented the black, Jewish, and Italian mobs.

Well, yeah, they were just regular old mob back then. I don't think that's the case anymore.

[Merijeek]

Not quite run of the mill, since they formed the "triangle," which is pretty high tech and has infiltrated the government.

The "triangle" had me expecting them to be Bavarian, but it looks like they're not going that direction.

I think we're going to find out that those three guys (along with Italiatwink) are all still looking young as ever - they were able to use the blood to keep themselves alive and young.

Of course, none of this explains the Miracle or anything about it - not really.

-Joe

[Folacin]

When the agreed to share Jack, they did a three-handed clasp that formed a triangle - is that the founding of the triangle organization, or were these three representatives of an existing organization (or alternatively, three organizations there were already cooperating to some degree for large scale operations)?

[levdrakon]

What I think is funny about Doctor Who and Torchwood is, between the two shows it appears at any given moment there are approximately 20 different secret societies/alien races controlling everything or almost everything on Earth.

It's amazing they don't bump into each other more often.

[ThirdCultureKid]

That occured to me as well. In fact, given the mention of The Blessing, and how 'they've always been there' or a similar quote, I thought it might have something to do with The Silence. Which would actually have been an interesting marketing move, as it would lead new US viewers back to Doctor Who.

Having said that, I can't see how that would fit with the newest revelations.

[DSeid]

Okay, that episode (End of the Road) actually did not suck. Good twists that I certainly never saw coming. Characters actually developing.

[aceplace57]

Good episode. I liked the twist with the CIA. John de Lancie was really good in his role.

The gizmo from the Torchwood hub didn't make much sense. I don't understand how anyone would know what it was or how to hook it up except Jack and maybe Tosh. SInce Tosh is long gone that only leaves Jack.

The cliffhanger ending left me itching for next week. I'm wondering what Esther will do.

Gwen gets sent back to Wales. Not surprising. A bit contrived this time. I know they want to keep the European feel to the show. It seems like they could do it better than to deport her.

[enalzi]

The cliffhanger ending left me itching for next week. I'm wondering what Esther will do.


That null device that Jack grabbed cancels out the effect of the Miracle. The miracle makes Jack mortal. Ergo, Jack should be immortal now. At least that's my theory. Of course, it seems that he's still quite hurt. Maybe it's not turned on.

Although I wonder why a man who has spent his whole life trying to live forever would have a device under his hospital bed that could keep the Miracle from affecting him. Maybe the Miracle has more of an effect than just making everyone not die.

[Folacin]

Jack doesn't have the whole device - I think the part he grabbed was basically the battery.

I'm wondering if there is some sort of DNA component to the cancelling also. Angelo was in the null field the whole time, and was in no condition to trigger it. He died when Jack kissed him - so that seems to be the trigger?

[Smapti]

Definitely a better episode than last week, though i'm still not really liking the idea that "the Mob" is the big bad for the season.

I'm disappointed that Major Kira got killed off so quickly, but at least we'll get more of Q chewing the scenery. The intern also got introduced, revealed, and killed off too quickly - seems like she should have been brought in a few episodes ago, though since there were no Danes/Kitzinger scenes the past two episodes i'm assuming most of her plot thread was cut for time.

Re Angelo dying: I don't think Jack's kiss was the "trigger" - it just excited his nervous system enough to set the machines beeping, and Jack pulling the plug on him was what did him in. That's probably part of why he ends up so mopey and taciturn the rest of the episode - Angelo may have had a nullifier installed underneath his bed, but Jack still killed the one person in the world who he had genuinely romantic feelings for.

[Candyman74]

Gwen gets sent back to Wales. Not surprising. A bit contrived this time. I know they want to keep the European feel to the show. It seems like they could do it better than to deport her.

Which was odd. She shoulda said "But you just renditioned me the other day! Make your mind up! Here? There? I was quite happy to stay at home in the first place!"

[Merijeek]

Although I wonder why a man who has spent his whole life trying to live forever would have a device under his hospital bed that could keep the Miracle from affecting him. Maybe the Miracle has more of an effect than just making everyone not die.

I don't think the Miracle is what Angelo is expecting. The big question, of course, is if is what the Family was expecting.

So, what's the motivation? What good does the Miracle do anyone? Maybe everyone (and I mean everyone outside the family) reaches the point where the Miracle is all that keeps them alive. So, the Family can control the world by simply threatening to throw the switch, turn off the Miracle, and wiping out Humanity?

I think there'll be more to these guys than the Mob. That had to have gotten access to alien technology somewhere. The Blessing was 1997, and that was not when The Hub got blown to bits, so that can't be it.

What happened in 1997? Anything significant anyone can think of? I don't think my stint as a delivery driver for Pizza Hut is it...

I also haven't really figured out the point of Oswald Danes. I can see it as a commentary on fame vs. worth, but that doesn't seem like quite enough. Speaking of which, I know the general consensus has always been that Bill Pullman is kind of a nothing actor, but I think he's done a great job on Danes. Watching him attempt to dance was kind of painful. Kind of reminded me of me trying to dance, really.

-Joe

[enalzi]

Jack doesn't have the whole device - I think the part he grabbed was basically the battery.

I'm wondering if there is some sort of DNA component to the cancelling also. Angelo was in the null field the whole time, and was in no condition to trigger it. He died when Jack kissed him - so that seems to be the trigger?

I thought it was some sort of control device, without it the rest of the thing wouldn't work.

Watching it again:
Jack said "This is the Alpha plate. Without it this is just a bunch of metal."
So he wasn't really specific about what it does.

You might be right about Jack's DNA turning on the field. The line went by so fast I didn't even notice it.

Esther - "So what did he do, trigger it with your DNA or something?"
Jack - "Maybe it was revenge, or maybe he was giving me a clue."

[TBG]

Gwen gets sent back to Wales. Not surprising. A bit contrived this time. I know they want to keep the European feel to the show. It seems like they could do it better than to deport her.

So.... frequent flier Myles :D

[LaurenIpsum]

Am I misremembering, or didn't "Newman" (I'll always think of him as Newman from Seinfeld) get shot in the head by Rex several episodes back? If so, he made quite a recovery (until he blew himself up). I would have assumed he'd have been in category 1 already.

[Merijeek]

Am I misremembering, or didn't "Newman" (I'll always think of him as Newman from Seinfeld) get shot in the head by Rex several episodes back? If so, he made quite a recovery (until he blew himself up). I would have assumed he'd have been in category 1 already.

Nah, he fired a gun right next to his ear to pop his eardrum. Which actually makes me think that RTD is a fan of Archer.

-Joe

[Merijeek]

So...was I the only one who watched it, or something?

And I still don't know what The Blessing is...I mean, it's, what, Earth's Vagina?

-Joe

[Dewey Finn]

They haven't made that clear yet, and there's only one more episode to go. Overall, I've been disappointed with this series.

[enalzi]

Why couldn't they have done that two month jump two or three episodes ago? I loved the whole dystopian future aspect where everyone's just kind of accepted the fact that the Miracle may never end. Considering how slow a lot of this season has been, I would much rather have four or five episodes of this then everything crammed in at the last minute. And more riffing between Rex and Q.

[LaurenIpsum]

They haven't made that clear yet, and there's only one more episode to go. Overall, I've been disappointed with this series.

I was thinking that myself. When the episode started, I said to Mr. Ipsum, "They'd better start wrapping this up now or the last episode is going to be totally rushed."

Then we watched the episode, and learned pretty much nothing. And I thought: they're going to have to answer a lot of questions in one single episode. Such as, how did the families create the miracle, what are they getting out of it, what is their connection to Phicorp, and why do they want Jack dead?

Then a horrible thought occurred to me. Maybe they aren't planning to wrap things up this season. Maybe they are going to have a cliffhanger and resolve it next season, if there is one.

Noooooooooooooooooooooo!

[Dewey Finn]

Along with all of the other questions, I'm wondering where the aliens are. Assuming, of course, that there are aliens. But every previous episode of the show has featured aliens and I can't imagine how the three families managed the miracle on their own. Also, it's weird that no one seems to be aware of the events of Children of Earth. That was traumatic enough that it should have affected the public in a very real way. Certainly it should have made people much less likely to trust their govenrnments. And yet in this series, people seem to be going along with the plans for Category One people, including the searches of people's homes and the ovens. No one ever makes the Nazi connection?

[levdrakon]

The Blessing may turn out to be the alien life form you're looking for. Not sure how it made the Miracle happen, but it's a pretty big alien. It seems to want/need Jack's blood too.

[Smapti]

The whole "Buenos Aires and Shanghai are antipodes" thing set off my geek alarm and I had to pause the video and Google it.

Turns out they're not. (http://www.antipodemap.com)

[jackdavinci]

The whole "Buenos Aires and Shanghai are antipodes" thing set off my geek alarm and I had to pause the video and Google it.

Turns out they're not. (http://www.antipodemap.com)

Seems pretty damn close. These are major cities. They cover a lot more area than their "representative dot". If one of the antipodes was in Queens and they said "we're going to NYC" I wouldn't be picking nits.

[Winnipeg]

I'm not pleased with this series at all.

Jack seems to have become more a standard "gay" character, rather than being attracted to just about anything, and his 'get-up-and-go" seems to have got up and gone. :rolleyes:

Some (most) of the other characters are just irritating.

The story is either moving very slowly, or jumping too quickly, it does not have a good pace thru an episode.

God knows what they are going to do to end it neatly. They had better end it next week...:dubious:

[Dewey Finn]

The Blessing may turn out to be the alien life form you're looking for. Not sure how it made the Miracle happen, but it's a pretty big alien. It seems to want/need Jack's blood too.
That had not occurred to me but it's a good idea. Perhaps the families are feeding it with the cremains of the Category One people?

[Merijeek]

I'm kind of thinking that it might be some sort of (corrupted) Time Vortex. But I could see them avoiding that as it might be too much of a tie-in with Doctor Who.

-Joe

[levdrakon]

I'm kind of thinking that it might be some sort of (corrupted) Time Vortex. But I could see them avoiding that as it might be too much of a tie-in with Doctor Who.

-JoeIt makes sense it's time related, since Jack's immortality is time related, and not a physical difference in his cells or anything.

[Merijeek]

It makes sense it's time related, since Jack's immortality is time related, and not a physical difference in his cells or anything.

Well, that, and the people who are exposed to The Blessing are a bunch of weird creepy fuckers.

If you think back to The Master, and the effect that it had on him back on Gallifrey...? But like I said, it really ties it too closely to DW in my opinion.

I thought I had picked something up where they all seemed to have blue eyes, except the guy that Jilly met in Shanghai (I wonder which clan Irving Neusbaum was supposed to be from?) killed that theory.

-Joe

[TBG]

That had not occurred to me but it's a good idea. Perhaps the families are feeding it with the cremains of the Category One people?

Soylent Blessing is made of people!

And the last thing this show needed was a two month jump ahead.

[Folacin]

Seems pretty damn close. These are major cities. They cover a lot more area than their "representative dot". If one of the antipodes was in Queens and they said "we're going to NYC" I wouldn't be picking nits.

Well, taking Concordia, Argentina as the closest town, it's about 270 miles from the antipode. So, more like saying "Iowa" when you mean Wisconsin. :)

On the other hand, since most of the world's dry land has water as an antipode (and so does most of the ocean), that they could come that close to two cities people would have a concept of where they are is pretty cool.

[scr4]

That had not occurred to me but it's a good idea. Perhaps the families are feeding it with the cremains of the Category One people?

When a body is incinerated, most of it goes up in smoke. So perhaps The Blessing simply inhales the remains.

As for the idea that The Blessing is some type of Time Vortex, that seems at odds with the constant references to morphic fields. I got the impression the Morphic Field is a biological thing, not a space-time continuum phenomenon. There's also the fact that it's only humans who stopped dying.

[Merijeek]

When a body is incinerated, most of it goes up in smoke. So perhaps The Blessing simply inhales the remains.

As for the idea that The Blessing is some type of Time Vortex, that seems at odds with the constant references to morphic fields. I got the impression the Morphic Field is a biological thing, not a space-time continuum phenomenon. There's also the fact that it's only humans who stopped dying.

Like I said, I don't think it's that just because I don't see Davies tying things into Doctor Who so tightly. I was pointing out that it could be something similar since The Blessing seems to sandblast the brains of people who see it. Kind of like the vortex does.

The whole thing is it seems to be both giving life energy and feeding off of it, assuming something is being done with the incinerees. So, some big piece of information is missing.

Why would they dig it up? How would Jack's blood lead to digging it up? Okay, we see this vial of Jack's blood (collected in the 20's) tugging toward this area...so let's start digging? That doesn't seem like a good business strategy.

-Joe

[scr4]

Why would they dig it up? How would Jack's blood lead to digging it up?

We don't even know if it was dug up. It may have been created by the Families, or came from somewhere else (through the Rift, perhaps?) It may have dug the hole, or the hole may be part of it.

[Dewey Finn]

It's a hole from Shanghai straight through to Buenos Aires. I doubt that the three families dug the hole on their own. Plus, how would such a thing be stable?

[scr4]

It's a hole from Shanghai straight through to Buenos Aires. I doubt that the three families dug the hole on their own. Plus, how would such a thing be stable?

I thought about that, but they could easily justify them with "alien technology".

[TBG]

It's a hole from Shanghai straight through to Buenos Aires. I doubt that the three families dug the hole on their own. Plus, how would such a thing be stable?

I've spent a week wondering what those lizard people who live in the middle of the earth think of having that giant hole bored through their home. :p

[DSeid]

Okay, that was actually pretty good.

[simster]

Okay, that was actually pretty good.

yeah - the beginning was good, the end was good - it was much of the 11 hours in the middle that sucked the life out of it.

[CorneaGenii]

yeah - the beginning was good, the end was good - it was much of the 11 hours in the middle that sucked the life out of it.

That pretty much sums it up for me. Still...

Jack: "What?"
Gwen: "What?"
Rex: "What?"

Priceless. :D

[Dewey Finn]

It's a hole from Shanghai straight through to Buenos Aires. I doubt that the three families dug the hole on their own. Plus, how would such a thing be stable?
I've spent a week wondering what those lizard people who live in the middle of the earth think of having that giant hole bored through their home. :p
Coincidentally, I saw that episode of Doctor Who yesterday (as I'm working through the fifth series). I'm still not entirely satisfied, although that little surprise at the end in the mausoleum was amusing. And the reference to Plan B was almost a suggestion that they're going to continue this storyline next time. I hope not. I'd prefer that they go in a different direction.

As for that hole, my guess is that was there the whole time. At most, the families uncovered the locations in Buenos Aires and Shanghai.

[Smapti]

I must say, the finale definitely made up for the lull the series had been in since episode 6 or so. I liked that they addressed the "but those aren't true antipodes" and "why isn't it a volcano?" points, even if just in a hand-wavey, wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey fashion. I liked that Oswald finally got a chance to be a hero in the end, even if he was still a dick and a complete monster about being happy that he's going to Hell so he can chase down the bad little girls.

I was pissed off at the end that they'd apparently killed off all the new Torchwood members they'd introduced. Then Rex came back to life and whammed me. It'll be interesting to see how they play that in the next series - Rex coming to grips with being immortal and how his relationship with Jack and Gwen develops. (I am SO going to flip out if Davies insists on making Jack and Rex a couple, though.)

I'm also intrigued by the "Plan B" that got mentioned in the end. I noticed in the final scene that the Family emmisary's eyes were an unnatural shade of blue - Were they like that before? Could that be a sign that he isn't human?

[Smapti]

Afterthought;

The Blessing had the blood of an immortal human introduced to it, and was confused and distressed thereby, so it changed the morphic field it was projecting to what it interpreted as being the new human "normal".

Isn't that the exact same plot as The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances, where Jack was introduced?

[Folacin]

I'm not too surprised there is a plan B. Per the show, the Families only started to figure out the blessing thing in the 60's or so - so they had at least 30 years to work on other avenues.

I was a little annoyed that Rex lived and Esther died - then Bam! Nice mis-direction (although an obvious clue in hindsight) when they mentioned several times that Jack's blood had no affect on mortals. I'm assuming that they thought that the Blessing had extended the morphic field long/far enough to save him but not Esther? I thought I heard some reference to that.

I was a little surprised that Gwen assumed Jack would be dead. Obviously, we know that Jack needs to live for next season, but you'd think she'd at least wait a beat or two to determine if the field reversal made him immortal again. Of course, if she had, Jilly would have run the elevator up, and I'm not sure that Oswald could/would have held off long enough to get it back down.

[enalzi]

When Ester and Rex were dying, I was thinking to myself, "I bet Rex is gonna suddenly gasp for air then come back to life." Nice little misdirection with the funeral.

I liked that Oswald finally got a chance to be a hero in the end, even if he was still a dick and a complete monster about being happy that he's going to Hell so he can chase down the bad little girls.


Yep, I think any other show would've had him say he was sorry or something like that. Nope, he's a monster and he'll always be a monster.

I'm assuming that they thought that the Blessing had extended the morphic field long/far enough to save him but not Esther? I thought I heard some reference to that.


No, I think they just thought Rex was lucky. All he did was open his wound so Jack's blood would flow out. He wasn't shot again or anything. Gwen was just saying that she wished the Blessing could've reached out and saved Esther.

[aceplace57]

I'm bummed about Esther too.

Looking forward to Jane Espenson's blog Monday. This tv guide article has a few comments.
http://www.tvguide.com/News/Torchwood-Miracle-Day-Finale-Postmortem-Jane-Espenson-Interview-1037194.aspx

I hope the next series has a full Torchwood team in place with a base. I don't want to see another Jack & Gwen adventure. Torchwood should be an organization.

[Dewey Finn]

If there is another series, I wonder if Rex will acquire some of Jack's attitude as a result of the immortality. And if the CIA finds out about Rex, they'll want to recruit him. Just think; a government spy who can't die.

[enalzi]

I hope the next series has a full Torchwood team in place with a base. I don't want to see another Jack & Gwen adventure. Torchwood should be an organization.

Good luck with that. For all intents and purposes Torchwood (the show) IS Jack and Gwen. You can throw in all the other extra characters you want, but those two will always be constant.

Also, I hope we get to meet "The Face of Rex" on Doctor Who someday.

[LaurenIpsum]

I just watched this episode, and my nitpicky brain is having a field day:

-Apparently Noah's "tracing" software works just as well on a phone as it does on the CIA computers.

-When Rex realized Charlotte was the mole, I don't think the solution is to suddenly shout "Charlotte!" and then run after her, because then she knows the jig is up. As several people said before, when Dr. Juarez lost her temper and got shot, Rex should have played it cool. Of course, since he wasn't killed, I guess it all worked out in the end. I'm glad Charlotte got her comeuppance - her permanent "sucking on a lemon" expression was really pissing me off. And for the last several episodes, I wondered why she was wearing a low-cut minidress to work. Just to provide some T&A, I guess.

-We never really did learn what the families' connection was to PhiCorp. When the series started, I was thinking PhiCorp was behind the whole miracle so they could profit by selling painkillers. But it sounds like they weren't responsible, but simply had advance information about the miracle that they tried to profit from.

-Is it just me, or was the families' big plan never really explained? They said that the miracle would bring down the government and the economy, allowing the families to take over, but they never exactly said how they were going to accomplish that. On the other hand, they did keep saying "This is only the first phase" so maybe that was all part of the next phase.

[DigitalC]

I liked that Oswald's sacrifice had no redemption to it, it was an act of petty revenge and he went down the same sick perv that he was alive.

[Smapti]

Two more things that occured to me;

Jack mentions that he was in China during the Boxer Rebellion, thus explaining why he wasn't with Torchwood when they exhumed his future self in 1901.

Second, the CIA must have hired on the same HR people who used to do hiring for CTU, since I can't figure out otherwise how the Families got two moles into the same office.

[Folacin]

One mole, really. They had some sort of blackmail/bribe deal going on with Newman - only Charlotte was a member of a Family.

[Merijeek]

I'm also intrigued by the "Plan B" that got mentioned in the end. I noticed in the final scene that the Family emmisary's eyes were an unnatural shade of blue - Were they like that before? Could that be a sign that he isn't human?

They were always like that. I don't spend too much time analyzing peoples' eyes, but if you look above you'll see that I commented that all of the Family (except for the one guy, which screwed my theory!) had extremely blue eyes.


Isn't that the exact same plot as The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances, where Jack was introduced?

Sort of. The difference being one was alien technology and the other was Mother Earth. Plus, one was scared and trying to fix things, the other was hurt and trying to bribe away the bad people hurting it even more.

I too was annoyed at the nihilism of both new Torchwoodies getting killed - my wife had actually surmised that Rex was going to be OK when he got up to throw the guy over the railing. Then, of course he dropped so, we figured that was that then. I was glad Rex came back, though I wish it'd been Esther, but that's just good old fashioned heterosexual desire.

One mole, really. They had some sort of blackmail/bribe deal going on with Newman - only Charlotte was a member of a Family.

Yeah, complaining about CTU I understand. Every two-bit terrorist organization seemed to have a member of their union in CTU headquarters. The Family, on the other hand, is kind of like The Illuminati, but less public.

As for the software running on Rex's phone, I thought it was more along the lines of Dead Guy's computer having saved its screens to a server that Rex's phone was accessing. Could be wrong though.

-Joe

[GargoyleWB]

T...
As for the software running on Rex's phone, I thought it was more along the lines of Dead Guy's computer having saved its screens to a server that Rex's phone was accessing. Could be wrong though.

I can remote-desktop from my phone directly to my home PCs and network, I assume Rex did similar.

I didn't care for the resolution at all. Jack's acquiring immortality came as a result of hand-wavy Tardis physics, an acquisition via transfusion for Rex didn't seem to fit within the rules of the universe, especially since it is assured that The Family would have tried themselves to do so with their Jack-blood reserves.

The whole episode had a feel of clumsily tying up the big plot while minimizing the cast list for a follow-on season that may never get signed.

[Merijeek]

I didn't care for the resolution at all. Jack's acquiring immortality came as a result of hand-wavy Tardis physics, an acquisition via transfusion for Rex didn't seem to fit within the rules of the universe, especially since it is assured that The Family would have tried themselves to do so with their Jack-blood reserves.

Two things you're missing though. Or two sides of one thing...

The only way to do the transfusion with Jack's blood without killing the recipient was during The Miracle.

So, the only time one could actually do that an achieve that special Harknessness would have been to transform themselves into a very mortal person when the rest of the world becomes immortal.

The big thing I didn't like about the story was Esther deciding out of the blue to save a couple gallons of Jack's blood. She knew it was tied to Big Happenings, sure, but making the leap from that to "it's our secret weapon" was a pretty blind jump. Unless I missed something.

-Joe

[DSeid]

I'm thinking that Jack's blood couldn't make anyone immortal, but it was able to make then immortal Rex mortal. The Blessing then reversed things, so Jack, and the then mortal Rex, become immortal and everyone else mortal.

[TBG]

Good luck with that. For all intents and purposes Torchwood (the show) IS Jack and Gwen. You can throw in all the other extra characters you want, but those two will always be constant.

Also, I hope we get to meet "The Face of Rex" on Doctor Who someday.

Face of Langley? :D

And someone had to knock up the Face of Boe at one point.:eek:

[levdrakon]

Rex didn't turn immortal until being killed, right? Otherwise his old wounds would have healed immediately.

I always thought Rex was the one sure goner. His fate was sealed in the first episode when he was all happy and gloating about a coworker's wife getting cancer which meant him getting a preemo job assignment. Then he immediately got a pole through the chest.

Well, that's what I thought. Maybe he earned his redemption during the Miracle, although I thought he was still kind of a jerk.

[jackdavinci]

Rex didn't turn immortal until being killed, right? Otherwise his old wounds would have healed immediately.

Yeah, don't quite get why people got Jack's lifespan but not healing powers or more importantly how the Families could have anticipated that.

[enalzi]

Well, that's what I thought. Maybe he earned his redemption during the Miracle, although I thought he was still kind of a jerk.

I want to see how Rex handles being immortal. Jack has a good mix of joy and guilt, but I see Rex being more of "Fuck yeah, you can't kill me bitches."

Yeah, don't quite get why people got Jack's lifespan but not healing powers or more importantly how the Families could have anticipated that.

The Blessing basically works by taking in the average lifespan of the people around it as a tempate, and then applying that template to the rest of the world. So they put in Jack's blood which changed the average lifespan to infinity. It's didn't apply Jack's immortality to the rest of the world, just his lifespan.

[emarkp]

...which of course never explains why Jack became mortal. Way too many plot holes.

Spent too much time meandering about and becoming Torch24Wood.

[Smapti]

Spent too much time meandering about and becoming Torch24Wood.

24chwood?

Drink every time Jack yells "Dammit!"

[Musky Moon]

I didn't dislike the series as much as others did, but I think this could have been a solid six part series. There were great things at the beginning and end, especially the distopian society that arose after the miracle. The problem was the three or four middle episodes where it devolved into a generic spy thriller. They had some terrific and truly fascinating themes going on, I just wish they could of cut the fat. Also, I don't think it was necassary for the show to be set mostly in the US. The same story could have been told in Wales with a quick jaunt to New York after the flashback scenes.

All in all, I'm still happy the series happened at all and hope it got good enough ratings to go another season.

[Musky Moon]

I also think Danes would have been more interestin as more of a two episode showcase as a byproduct of the miracle as opposed to a major character (kind of like the Tea Party Lady). With all the attention paid to him I thought he was tied to the miracle somehow. Instead, he was just red herring time sink. So much time wasted on him.

I'm dissapointed that the social effects weren't explored more. The more fascinating aspects of the whole miracle were the death cultists with the creepy masks and the 42 floor club. Also, the jmo forwArd episode where we got to see how people began to caope with the ovens being a fact of life now.

All in all, I think RTD missed the boat on what could have been as good if not better than CoE. Instead, he got bogged down with his version of 24.

I'm also on board with the idea that if there is another series, PLEASE send it back to Wales!!! Please give them a base again. I'm fine with Rex becoming a member, though I would have preferred Esther. No more Torchwood as persona no gratta. This whole on the run thing is getting old.

[Jormungandr]

One question I still have, what was the point of destroying the blood banks? The Families said Jack's blood had to be introduced to the Blessing at the same time, but the banks were destroyed days apart.

[Merijeek]

One question I still have, what was the point of destroying the blood banks? The Families said Jack's blood had to be introduced to the Blessing at the same time, but the banks were destroyed days apart.

Good question...

They were both in cities where Jack had been recently and were being ridiculously over-careful? They didn't want big convenient stores near the pits that could cause The Blessing to recalibrate humanity Anemic Alcoholic Asians?

That might be a little plot hole that got overlooked.

-Joe

[CorneaGenii]

One question I still have, what was the point of destroying the blood banks? The Families said Jack's blood had to be introduced to the Blessing at the same time, but the banks were destroyed days apart.

Just a WAG. My impression was that blood stored in blood banks was taken before Miracle Day, and therefore, mortal blood. Maybe it was a precaution against ANY mortal blood being introduced to The Blessing.

[Merijeek]

Just a WAG. My impression was that blood stored in blood banks was taken before Miracle Day, and therefore, mortal blood. Maybe it was a precaution against ANY mortal blood being introduced to The Blessing.

That's likely the best answer we're going to find. They couldn't destroy it all, but they could at least handle the convenient monkey in the wrench.

-Joe

[MJinks]

It's just aired in the UK.

I can't be the only one who expected the evil redhead women to die in the explosion only for Jack or Gwen to comment that 'she should have run faster' right? I was grinning from ear to ear in expectation and then nothing.

TBH, I thought this series was average. There's nothing else worth watching on a Thursday night at least (or most nights).

[Boyo Jim]

BBC America is running episode 1 of the original Torchwood series right now.

[Illuminatiprimus]

Drink every time Jack yells "Dammit!"Or every time that Gwen starts going off on some emotional monologue that is supposed to remind us she's the soul of Torchwood.

Or don't, you'd be dead of alcohol poisoning by the end of one episode.