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The Conqueror Worm
07-21-2011, 08:54 PM
This might be considered the companion thread to the other active discussion. I had hoped someone would ask this question in that thread, but as yet no one has.

I for one believe there is Something beyond us and think I have enough evidence to satisfy myself, but am more than willing to admit that this might be the result of psychosis. Now, I'm very curious as to what the atheists of the Dope would do with me and those like me. Am I to be drugged, incarcerated and rehabilitated? Perhaps executed if I can not change my mind? If I have children will they be taken from me so that I can not affect their thinking? I'm hoping for some sincere and honest answers here.

Trinopus
07-21-2011, 09:04 PM
How about....engage in it. Enjoy it. Accept it for what it is. Feel free. Put it in proper perspective. Skiing is irrational. Playing cards for money is irrational. Reading superhero comic books is irrational. Playing D&D is irrational.

But...also fun.

So long as "personal tastes" don't interfere with "real life," they don't have to be a problem.

Respect others. Celebrate diversity. Don't try to get laws passed compelling anyone else to worship your choice of divinity. Don't get obsessive about the "end times." Rejoice in God the way Johann Sebastian Bach or Michelangelo did, or even the way C.S. Lewis and G.K. Chesterton did.

Have fun! Make it into a Good Thing. If there are parts of your holy scriptures you don't agree with...ignore those parts. Many, many Christians have no grief whatever with gays and lesbians, and are perfectly willing to accept such persons as friends and neighbors.

As Humpty Dumpty said: Who is to be the master? That's all. If religion starts becoming a personal burden to you...change your religion!

Maximize personal freedom, emphasize personal responsibility...

(See? Even atheists can write sermons!)

Trinopus

smiling bandit
07-21-2011, 10:24 PM
So long as "personal tastes" don't interfere with "real life," they don't have to be a problem.

Oh God. it's one of them.

Trinopus
07-21-2011, 10:28 PM
Oh God. it's one of them.

Misusers of quote marks?

Seriously, what did I do wrong? I was trying to preach moderation.

Trinopus

Der Trihs
07-21-2011, 10:36 PM
Oh God. it's one of them.

Misusers of quote marks?Giant ant.

AnalogSignal
07-21-2011, 10:47 PM
Now, I'm very curious as to what the atheists of the Dope would do with me and those like me. Am I to be drugged, incarcerated and rehabilitated? Perhaps executed if I can not change my mind? If I have children will they be taken from me so that I can not affect their thinking?

What would you do to atheists? Burn them at the stake for being heathen witches? I am sure most Dopers can agree to disagree and leave it at that.

smiling bandit
07-21-2011, 10:54 PM
Oh God. it's one of them.

I won't get into it with you, but anyone who says, "So long as "personal tastes" don't interfere with "real life," they don't have to be a problem." is not someone I can easily respect. And that's only the bare beginnings of what's wrong with that. You do not preach moderation, but rank stupidity and utter madness in equal measure.

Ají de Gallina
07-21-2011, 11:07 PM
What would you do to atheists? Burn them at the stake for being heathen witches? I am sure most Dopers can agree to disagree and leave it at that.

That's right. You don't burn atheists at the stake for beaing heathen witches, that's stupid....you burn them for being godless monsters.
Heathenism would imply beliefs and witchcraft would imply consorting with the devil.

AnalogSignal
07-21-2011, 11:13 PM
Heathenism would imply beliefs

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heathens

Definition of HEATHEN
1: an unconverted member of a people or nation that does not acknowledge the God of the Bible

2: an uncivilized or irreligious person

Bryan Ekers
07-21-2011, 11:28 PM
Am I to be drugged, incarcerated and rehabilitated?


That depends - are you into that sort of thing?

The Conqueror Worm
07-21-2011, 11:35 PM
(See? Even atheists can write sermons!)

Trinopus

And some like to zealously evangelize more so than their perceived opposition.

That aside, I thank Trinopus for at least trying to answer my questions although the issue of my influence upon my children has gone unaddressed.

For the rest of you, please help me find some respect for your opinions on this matter (and others.) Please tell me and the rest of the Dope what your real thoughts are. If you can or will not, I can only assume you have never thought the issue through to its conclusion, are ashamed of your thoughts or else enjoy the mental masturbation ping pong game of "Yes, they are. No, they aren't." above all else.

To answer Analog directly, I qualify as one of the heathens so I'm not likely to recommend a pyre.

Full Metal Lotus
07-22-2011, 12:02 AM
Certain forms of insanity or more properly cognitive imparement can be diagnosed as belief in things that are not valid in observable reality.
for example:
If one person believes that rocks can talk - they are insane
If 25 people believe that rocks can talk - they are a wacky little cult
If 250,000 people belive that rocks can talk they are an obscure religion
If 250,000.000 people believe that rocks can talk, then they will have politicians and marketing agencies dancing to their faith/religion.

Still doesn't mean that person 1 isn't crazy...

The Conqueror Worm
07-22-2011, 12:05 AM
FML... what are you going to do with the one or the quarter billion?

Trinopus
07-22-2011, 12:06 AM
I won't get into it with you, but anyone who says, "So long as "personal tastes" don't interfere with "real life," they don't have to be a problem." is not someone I can easily respect. And that's only the bare beginnings of what's wrong with that. You do not preach moderation, but rank stupidity and utter madness in equal measure.

I honestly don't see this. I believe that personal tastes are irrational in nature -- and that this doesn't matter. Some personal tastes, however, are harmful -- as when the appreciation of a drink now and then becomes alcoholism. At that point, it ceases being moderation and starts being a problem.

Religion is fine, so long as it isn't a problem. When it turns to such things as holy inquisitions, it is a problem. When it's a bunch of people gathering in a church to sing praises to their idea of the divine....where's the problem?

I believe I am preaching moderation; if I am failing, I would certainly not object to being enlightened. I don't crave your respect, save only to the degree that you are clear in your rebuttal, so that I have a chance of learning from my errors. Arrant dismissal is not educational.

Der Trihs: giant ant? Huh?

I'm kinda new here, and I may not be getting some of the jargon.

Trinopus

(Many years ago, I actually ran a "giant ant" D&D campaign...)

Trinopus
07-22-2011, 12:10 AM
And some like to zealously evangelize more so than their perceived opposition.

Very true. I am trying not to be that kind of atheist.

Actually, I've never much minded evangelists, of the genteel variety, anyway. People who come to my door on a Saturday to persuade me to follow their faith: seems pretty harmless. I got a free copy of the Book of Mormon that way...

Only a tiny minority are offensive; I hope the same is true of atheists.

Trinopus

The Conqueror Worm
07-22-2011, 12:14 AM
Trinopus, thank you for your opinion. So far you are the only one willing to share. I'm really hoping others will be willing to step up and be honest rather than trying to make jokes and snide comments.

ITR champion
07-22-2011, 12:59 AM
Now, I'm very curious as to what the atheists of the Dope would do with me and those like me. Am I to be drugged, incarcerated and rehabilitated? Perhaps executed if I can not change my mind? If I have children will they be taken from me so that I can not affect their thinking?
Some atheists of the dope would answer 'yes' to some of that. For instance (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13066691&postcount=30).

Trinopus
07-22-2011, 01:50 AM
Trinopus, thank you for your opinion. So far you are the only one willing to share. I'm really hoping others will be willing to step up and be honest rather than trying to make jokes and snide comments.

There will be others! ("If you build it, they will come." It's true of civilized discourse and of baseball too...)

I've always been fond of the "Grand Hotel" model of society and culture. Our culture's mansion has many rooms... There will be a tendency toward segregation, as birds of a feather flock together, but we still live under the same overall shelter. I live right next door to a church. They ring their bells......softly! They don't peal them out in festive clangor......except at Christmas and Easter. For my part, I can cope with the very loud (almost painful) sounds of joy twice a year.

Rodney King was mocked for his naive plaint, but he was right: "Can't we all just get along?"

FWIW, I don't think religious belief is "insane." I compare it to other personal preferences, in fashion, cuisine, drama, etc. You and I might likely disagree on which movie to see, which radio station to listen to, or where to go for dinner, but neither of us would call the other "insane" for having different tastes. Tastes are, perhaps, "irrational." I can't defend them logically; they're just how I feel. If someone has a personal sense that the universe is founded upon animate principles -- that there are gods, spirits, devils, angels, or that there is one unifying god -- that is not, intrinsically, of any harm to me, and nor is my dissent from that personal sense any intrinsic harm or threat to the believer.

(I do have logical grounds and formal reasoning behind some of my religious ideas, but they don't belong in this thread. And, in an case, some people would disagree with my premises, and so nothing can really be logically conclusive!)

Trinopus

Der Trihs
07-22-2011, 01:54 AM
Oh God. it's one of them.

Misusers of quote marks?

Giant ant.

Der Trihs: giant ant? Huh?

I'm kinda new here, and I may not be getting some of the jargon.Them! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Them!)

Trinopus
07-22-2011, 01:57 AM
Some atheists of the dope would answer 'yes' to some of that. For instance (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13066691&postcount=30).

Legally enforced atheism would be one of those "cures" which is vastly worse than the "disease!"

The absence of a legally-constituted "state religion" is not only of benefit to the atheists, but to everyone practicing a minority religion. The secular state is, it is true, of comfort to the atheist...but in America, it is also of comfort to the Jew, the Mormon, the Wiccan, the Buddhist, the Hindu, the followers of various classical pantheons (I know a couple of Thor worshippers and a small group of Minerva worshippers) and others. Also to the smaller sects of Christianity: if there were an official state religion, would it leave room for Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, The Way Ministry, etc.?

At least some atheists answer 'no!' to what you cited!

Trinopus

Trinopus
07-22-2011, 01:59 AM
Them! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Them!)

Oh! (Blushes, hangs head, mumbles apologetically...)

Trinopus (loves "The Monolith Monsters")

Bryan Ekers
07-22-2011, 02:00 AM
Well, I have no interest in persecuting the OP, even if I live to see a day where my views are in the majority and his take their long-delayed move off center stage. If anything, persecuting him feeds into the whole martyr thing and strengthens his views.

Meatros
07-22-2011, 07:40 AM
This might be considered the companion thread to the other active discussion. I had hoped someone would ask this question in that thread, but as yet no one has.

I for one believe there is Something beyond us and think I have enough evidence to satisfy myself, but am more than willing to admit that this might be the result of psychosis. Now, I'm very curious as to what the atheists of the Dope would do with me and those like me. Am I to be drugged, incarcerated and rehabilitated? Perhaps executed if I can not change my mind? If I have children will they be taken from me so that I can not affect their thinking? I'm hoping for some sincere and honest answers here.

Your something beyond us is kinda of vague, but I get what you are driving at.

As to what should we do to you? Nothing. You may believe as you want - as long as you are not actively hurting other people, I don't really have a problem with your beliefs. If you are going to try to force them on other people (politically), then I'd have a problem.

MrDibble
07-22-2011, 12:55 PM
Now, I'm very curious as to what the atheists of the Dope would do with me and those like me. Am I to be drugged, incarcerated and rehabilitated? Perhaps executed if I can not change my mind?
Now why would we want to treat the religious the way the religious have treated us, and their co-religionists? I'm all for just shining a spotlight on the irrationality of religious belief and leaving it at that, except...
If I have children will they be taken from me so that I can not affect their thinking?...not...exactly, but I am in favour of measures that ensure that you don't get to affect their thinking too much. Like e.g. mandatory public schooling without religious indoctrination.

Drunky Smurf
07-22-2011, 01:21 PM
Well if they're crazy then they need to be institutionalized. So we better start building new facilities. Except there are more than 5.21 billion religious people, and that is the low estimate that I found and I did not include every single religion out there just the main ones, so the non-religious better get a second job or something to be able to pay for the new crazy houses. Except I doubt most non-religious people would want to spend the money it would require for the new buildings so I guess the only rational thing left is to just kill all religious people.

Christian popultion: 2.14 billion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_population_growth

Muslim population: 1.57 billion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population

Hinduism popultaion: 1 billion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_by_country

Buddhist population: 489 million.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Buddhist_population_by_country

Jewish population: 13.4 million.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population

fumster
07-24-2011, 10:47 AM
This might be considered the companion thread to the other active discussion. I had hoped someone would ask this question in that thread, but as yet no one has.

I for one believe there is Something beyond us and think I have enough evidence to satisfy myself, but am more than willing to admit that this might be the result of psychosis. Now, I'm very curious as to what the atheists of the Dope would do with me and those like me. Am I to be drugged, incarcerated and rehabilitated? Perhaps executed if I can not change my mind? If I have children will they be taken from me so that I can not affect their thinking? I'm hoping for some sincere and honest answers here.Well I'd begin by making you wear crosses so that we can find you when we round you up for the concentration camps. Luckily y'all seem to be doing that voluntarily.

sunacres
07-24-2011, 11:48 AM
... Am I to be drugged, incarcerated and rehabilitated? ... I'm hoping for some sincere and honest answers here.Apparently the sarcasm in your question has compromised the sincerity of the response.

Sablicious
07-25-2011, 08:08 AM
Anyone who truly believes in The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a few fries short of a Happy Meal. What's new...?

Acid Lamp
07-25-2011, 08:58 AM
If we suppose that all religion is a form of irrational insanity, then it should be controlled, but not persecuted. For instance we could institute zoning laws that would allow for only one building of faith that everyone would have to take turns sharing. We could disallow faith based private education. Eventually it would die out; just a bit faster and messier than it will o it's own. As education and quality of life increases religion decreases. Just stay the course and It will eventually become nothing more than a quint folk belief.

[cc]
07-27-2011, 10:18 AM
Trinopus, thank you for your opinion. So far you are the only one willing to share. I'm really hoping others will be willing to step up and be honest rather than trying to make jokes and snide comments.

This is mostly because you opened your thread so insultingly that I really had little desire to respond at first, as in:

Now, I'm very curious as to what the atheists of the Dope would do with me and those like me. Am I to be drugged, incarcerated and rehabilitated? Perhaps executed if I can not change my mind?

The fact that you even think atheists are a group of people who want to band together and abuse or murder "crazy" religious people is positively disgusting. You opened your thread with a gross and unapologetic equation of atheists to monsters, and are now sitting back with a defensive posture waiting for your targets to "step up". That makes it very difficult to conduct a civil conversation.

gonzomax
07-27-2011, 01:17 PM
When a politician says religion is what determines their actions, they should be hooted down. There are lots of religions in America . They are in disagreement for many fundamental reasons. All Americans deserve representation from their elected representatives. Because the rep has a religion, that does not mean that the rest of his constituents do not merit consideration.
Is a person like Bachmann be allowed to push her faith while doing harm to the rights of others be allowed? I don't think so in America, the melting pot.

Nars Glinley
07-27-2011, 01:32 PM
Giant ant.

I assumed that you were referring to our new insect overlords. Which I, for one, welcome.

Apollyon
07-27-2011, 07:06 PM
;14070167']The fact that you even think atheists are a group of people who want to band together and abuse or murder "crazy" religious people is positively disgusting.Indeed. Very few of us... I mean them, want to do that... except possibly in moments of weakness when we are in turn being abused or badgered by said crazies. (Who make up a very small proportion of theists really).
Well if they're crazy then they need to be institutionalized. So we better start building new facilities. Except there are more than 5.21 billion religious people, and that is the low estimate)...With due credit to the late Douglas Adams... it may be a lot easier for us non-believers to build our houses inside-out and claim that the rest of the world is the asylum.

Der Trihs
07-27-2011, 09:23 PM
With due credit to the late Douglas Adams... it may be a lot easier for us non-believers to build our houses inside-out and claim that the rest of the world is the asylum.Exactly. Even if it was scientifically and indisputably proven that believers are insane, that wouldn't change the fact they massively outnumber the unbelievers. So to answer the OP's question of "what the atheists of the Dope would do with me and those like me"; the answer is not much.