Help Us Tweak Our Vacation: Adding Philly and DC

[Siam Sam]

Geez, we have never had vacation plans morph so much. We decided to spend the entire month of April in the US next year. Originally, we thought we'd spend the entire time lazing around in Hawaii. Hawaii is our special place. It's where we met, where we were grad students together, where we courted. It was a magical 2-1/2 years, and to paraphrase Humphrey Bogart: "We'll always have Hawaii."

But then we thought: "Well, ya know, we've always talked about visiting New York City but never moved on it." Except for the Newark, New Jersey airport flying to and from Europe, I've never been east of the Mississippi River at all. The wife has visited Boston, during a summer residency at the U of Michigan one year, but never New York. So we decided: "We'll do a week or 10 days in NYC and spend the rest of the month in Hawaii." That spawned this thread asking for NYC advice (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=592570) back in January.

Now, I grew up in West Texas, and it was a given that you had to drive several hours to get to anyplace that could even remotely be considered desirable, so it took me a little while to realize not only is Philadelphia just 90 minutes from NYC by train, but Washington DC is only three hours away. So now we're thinking: "We should really see Philly and Washington while we're on the East Coast." So that's cutting Hawaii down to maybe two weeks or less.

So we started checking out airfares even though it's still early days. China Airlines, which we've flown a lot, can fly us from Bangkok-NYC and then back home from Honolulu for only US$1100 each plus taxes. Not bad. We'd have to make other arrangements to Hawaii, as China does not fly domestically in the US. United Airlines can fly us Bangkok-NYC-Honolulu-Bangkok for $2100 each, taxes and charges included. I think we can do a little cheaper getting from NYC to Hawaii though. Again, it's still early days.

But now we're considering cutting Hawaii out altogether, mabe spending only three weeks or so in the US. The East Coast is on the other side of the world, and who knows when we'll ever be in that neighborhood again. Hawaii is practically right next door, and we last visited there six years ago anyway. If we just do a straight Bangkok-NYC round trip on China Airlines, which is the same $1100 fare -- seems they consider NYC and Honolulu equal for fare purposes -- we can hop over to Hawaii some other time and maybe this time have a leisurely look around the NYC-Washington corridor.

So what's a good amount of time to spend in Philadelphia and Washington soaking up the history? We don't want to be rushed, and we're open to renting a car and taking some day trips out, like maybe the Gettysburg Battlefield (where one of my great- or great-great-grandfathers fought on the Yankee side) or Appomattox Court House. But inside Philly and DC themselves, what's a good length of time? And a good area of each city to stay? We hope Philly and DC wil be cheaper than New York, and we don't care about fancy. In fact, we've always been satisfied with Motel 6, and I see Washington has two of those.

Any advice appreciated, and thanks in advance.

[ITR champion]

I would advise that you could spend a week or more in D.C. without getting bored. The Smithsonian is the world's best collection of museums. The National Gallery of Art alone could keep you occupied for several days if you life that sort of thing. If you arrive at the right time in April you could also check out the cherry blossom festival.

The best places to stay are either Georgetown or the Dupont Circle area, northwest of the Mall. There are a lot of small and cozy hotels in that part of town. I'd be careful about picking the very cheapest hotels, because they're likely in the bad parts of town, namely the northeast and southeast. Those neighborhoods simply aren't safe to walk around at night, but Georgetown and Dupont Circle are.

The other thing to be wary of is the traffic, which tends to be hideous at all times of the year and all times of day.

[Siam Sam]

Great info. Thanks!

DC has a subway system, yes? How about Philly?

[BetsQ]

April is a really nice time of year to be in DC. The cherry blossoms and azaleas should be blooming and the weather should be tolerable for being out and about.

Maybe you could rent a car in Philly and drive to Gettysburg, then on to DC? As long as you have a car, you might consider Monticello as a day trip from DC (2.5 hr drive). Mt. Vernon is a lot closer to DC and also very interesting, but I really like Monticello. Annapolis, MD is also a nice day trip from DC.

In DC, I'd recommend the Smithsonian, of course, and all the monuments on the Mall. The Spy Museum and the Newseum are both fairly popular non-Smithsonian museums. Georgetown, Dupont Circle, and old town Alexandria, VA are all nice neighborhoods for walking around, poking into shops, and going out to eat. The farmer's market at Eastern Market is always fun on a Saturday morning, even if you are just looking around. The Washington Nationals are pretty mediocre, but the stadium is lovely and the cheap seats are only ten bucks.

I think you could pretty easily amuse yourselves in DC for a week.

[BetsQ]

DC has a subway system, yes? How about Philly?

The Metro is DC is easy to navigate and will be convenient for most tourist destinations. You would really only need a car to leave the city. I don't know about public transit in Philadelphia.

[Siam Sam]

Excellent suggestions, but we'd probably skip the ball game.

Ah, I know -- White House tours. Is it true you generally need to be a group of 10? And if it's just the two of us, is it easy to join a larger group?

[DCnDC]

Personally I'd skip the White House. It's really not that interesting IMO.

[pancakes3]

you can easily add yourself to a whitehouse tour, but most veterans of DC sightseeing would probably tell you that the WH tour and going to the top of the washington monument are 2 of the most overrated touristy experiences DC has to offer: huge lines carving out massive chunks of your day with very little payoff.

for Philly i can only offer the Mutter Musuem and various historical tours. Baltimore is halfway(ish) between DC and Philly and has the world's greatest aquarium. Ft. mchenry is hit or miss depending on how much of a history buff you are, and the inner harbor itself is nice, but not must-see.

i've got DC bias but there is tons to do in DC and all for free. from the zoo to the smithsonian to the various historical gov sites (library of congress, ford's theater, etc.) and 75% of it FREE, why wouldn't you spend a couple days in the district?

[DCnDC]

I will also endorse the Mutter Museum if you're into that sort of thing (medical curiosities).

I also enjoyed visiting the Eastern State Penitentiary when I was in Philly once. It looks like a castle that's in the middle of the city. Very strange and creepy.

[Siam Sam]

I guess we'll figure on a few days in Philly and a week or so in DC. We'd sort of like to see the inside of the White House, but if it's that much trouble, then we'll be satisfied with just staring at it from outside. Maybe President Obama will invite us in. :D

We mainly like museums and historical points of interest. And eating. Shopping not so much, but we do enjoy browsing around. I'm afraid we're not sports people at all.

[Typo Knig]

Are you up for a Dopefest?

[Siam Sam]

Well, that would not be out of the question. I've always wondered which Doper is President Obama.

[rocking chair]

phila does have public transport. should you come in on train you have 3 stations to choose from.

market east is the closest to the historical sites. the train arrives at 11th and market and there are about 4-5 hotels nearby with in a block or 2. walking around is very easy to get to liberty bell, independence hall, and the constitution center. also the reading terminal is a good place for eating.

the next station is suburban. the hotels are a bit further out. you arrive at 17th and jfk (1 block north of market) this is the station for the museums, natural history, franklin institute, rodin, mutter, and art museum. i'm not sure if the barnes will be open during your visit.

the last station is 30th street. this arrives at 30th and market and i believe the closest hotel is 6 blocks away around university of penn. this is good for the museum of archeology and anthopology. other than that you could use the river park to get to the art museum and then use the "el" to get back the the hotel.

let me know should you need more philly info.

[Siam Sam]

Thanks. What would be a good number of days to schedule for Philly?

[Boyo Jim]

The Metro is DC is easy to navigate and will be convenient for most tourist destinations. You would really only need a car to leave the city.....

I would go a bit further. As in Manhattan, you do not want to use a car in DC. The Metro will get you to all the popular tourist and shopping destinations. There are tons of cabs too.

There is also Tourmobile, which circulates all day among these stops (http://www.tourmobile.com/tours_map.php) (for some reason the map is oriented with east on top). You can get a day pass. Norw the map shows boxed M's which are Metro stops. You can actually walk the entirety of that map east of the Potomac. From The Lincoln Memorial by the Potomac end to Union Station at the top is about 2 and a half miles.

Wisconsin and Connecticut Avenues are the places to shop. You can go along Massachusetts avenue to see "embassy row", but there are lots of embassies all around the northwest quadrant.

I lived in Adams Morgan neighborhood, which is the place to go for all kinds of ethnic restaurants.

The National Portrait Gallery is a few blocks north of the Natural History Museum. In fact there's a bunch of museums scattered mostly to the north within a few blocks of the Mall. The Holocaust Museum is just off the SW corner of the Mall.

If you get really energetic, there is a bike path that goes all the way from the Mall to Mount Vernon (about 20 miles), right along the west bank of the Potomac. I'm sure you can find something with an engine in it too if you aren't so energetic.

You can rent a sailboat at the Belle Haven Marina (just south of Alexandria, another good shopping and eating choice). Alexandria also has lots of artists' galleries -- you should check out the Torpedo Factory if you like that stuff (yes, it used to be the US Navy torpedo factory).

I could go on and on...

[Siam Sam]

Thanks again. We'd only use a car to go farther afield, such as to Monticello and such. (I'd love to bicycle out to Mount Vernon, but the wife has never learned to ride a bike. :()

[rocking chair]

about 3ish days. one day for history, one day for musuems, and one day if you want to go further a field to valley forge or other sites nearby.

bicycle built for 2?

[Siam Sam]

Do they still have bicycles built for two? We've joked about that, but I think she really would get on one of those. I actually used to ride one with a blind friend back in Texas.

[Boyo Jim]

Certainly. In today's language they are called tandems. I'm not sure of the wisdom of going for a ride on one with someone who doesn't know how to ride, but you will find out quickly whether or not it works.

[Siam Sam]

It worked okay in Texas. My friend had never been on one either, but he was able to sit behind and work the pedals okay. Hopefully it wouldn't be much different for the wife. (Although I guess the fact that she can see might panic her.)

[BetsQ]

Do they still have bicycles built for two? We've joked about that, but I think she really would get on one of those. I actually used to ride one with a blind friend back in Texas.

http://www.bigwheelbikes.com/rentals.htm

Tandems are $10/hour. The location in Georgetown is not more than a mile from a Metro stop and should be pretty close to some good bike paths. That would be a nice change of pace from museum-going!

[Siam Sam]

Thanks! I'm going to talk her into it. :D

[Boyo Jim]

On the weekend, Beach Drive (http://www.nps.gov/pwr/customcf/apps/maps/showmap.cfm?alphacode=rocr&parkname=Rock%20Creek%20Park), which goes through Rock Creek Park right past the National Zoo, is closed to car traffic all the way to the Maryland line so bikes and pedestrians have the road. That is a beautiful ride. It's going the opposite direction from Mount Vernon, but it would be a lot safer for a novice rider than a pretty narrow bike path that winds through the woods along the Potomac.

[Boyo Jim]

It worked okay in Texas. My friend had never been on one either, but he was able to sit behind and work the pedals okay. Hopefully it wouldn't be much different for the wife. (Although I guess the fact that she can see might panic her.)

Slap a blindfold on her! Or put a bag over her head! Yeah, that's the ticket.

[Siam Sam]

I'll at least take out extra life insurance on her, heh. :D

[twickster]

Plenty to do in Philly -- let us know when and we'll set up a Dopefest.

You could hit the highlights in three days -- art museums in one, historic district another, and misc. touristy stuff (Mutter Museum, Eastern State Penitentiary, Franklin Institute, City Hall Tower, Zoo, Fairmount Park, Reading Market, Rittenhouse Square, South Street, the Magic Garden) in a third. Or a third and fourth.

If you guys like gardens, Philly is one of the best garden towns in the country. World-famous Longwood Gardens is about an hour outside the city (and Winterthur, another former DuPont family estate and major Americana museum, is a bit further in that direction). A non-DuPont, but superb, garden is Chanticleer, out on the Main Line. I actually prefer it to Longwood, which is pretty static for repeat visitors, but which everyone should see at least once.

[JohnT]

I guess we'll figure on a few days in Philly and a week or so in DC. We'd sort of like to see the inside of the White House, but if it's that much trouble, then we'll be satisfied with just staring at it from outside. Maybe President Obama will invite us in. :D

We mainly like museums and historical points of interest. And eating. Shopping not so much, but we do enjoy browsing around. I'm afraid we're not sports people at all.

My wife and I did a DC-Philly-Boston vacation once - we had an agenda to see Ivy League schools and Revolutionary War sites of which there were plenty of (The spot where Washington crossed the Delaware on Christmas day is to the NE of Philadelphia, about 20-odd miles away). In Philly of course there's the Liberty Bell, the Continental Congress, Ben Franklin stuff, and most importantly from a historical perspective, the steps where Sylvester Stallone successfully completed his workout montage in Rocky. ;)

Also, 90 miles in the Megalopolis that is I-95 from DC to New Haven is a MUCH longer 90 miles than I-10 in West Texas. Don't think 90 miles <= 90 minutes.

[Siam Sam]

Also, 90 miles in the Megalopolis that is I-95 from DC to New Haven is a MUCH longer 90 miles than I-10 in West Texas. Don't think 90 miles <= 90 minutes.

Ah, so you get cows and chickens blocking the road there too, eh? Everywhere ya go, it's always the same.

[JohnT]

No cows and chickens, just assholes and idiots. ;)

[Boyo Jim]

There's a few Civil War battle sites not far out from DC in Virginia. But other than a couple of markers, there's not a lot to see. The land is still working farm land, unless you happen to catch some special re-enactment events.

I know you said you're going in April, but I have to say that DC is the best place in the world to be on July 4th. Not non-stop events from morning til midnight, including tremendous fireworks and terrific concerts on the Mall. OTOH, there is the July weather, when you really understand at gut level that DC was built on old swamp land. It's kind of in a geologic bowl, and omg the heat just settles in something horrendous in mid-summer.

[Siam Sam]

I'm afraid July is not possible. Due to the wife's commitments, we're pretty much locked into April right now. But by any chance, in July is there a re-enactment of Zachary Taylor's death from eating contaminated cherries?

[Boyo Jim]

Indirectly. They re-enact Washington chopping down the cherry tree, which then falls on Zachary Taylor.

[rocking chair]

april is better than july for the eastern seaboard. we are up to heat wave # 6 or 7 now.

isn't the cherry tree thing in dc during april?

[JohnT]

I cannot tell a lie... I do not know. :p

[Bridget Burke]

Sounds like a great trip with a wealth of Things To See. I agree that, staying in the cities, you'll do well to use public transport, the occasional cab & your own feet. (Although the bicycle built for two is a great option.)

Add to the list of Expeditions Worth Renting A Car: Harper's Ferry. Events commemorating the Civil War Sesquicentennial (http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/2011/07/in-or-out-jayma-mays-in-reem-acra.html) begin in April.

What was the first target in Virginia following secession? Where was the largest capture of of Union troops during the Civil War? The answer to both is Harpers Ferry! Strategically located on the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad at the northern end of the Shenandoah Valley, Union and Confederate troops moved through Harpers Ferry frequently. The town changed hands eight times between 1861 and 1865. Four years of warfare resulted in a garrison town under martial law, military hospitals, partisan warfare, and a base of operations for military campaigns.
The park’s battlefields include fortifications, trench lines and ruins and were described by one soldier as carved out by nature for some great tragedy.

Although it's worth a visit when not crowded with tourists; beyond history, there is great natural beauty (http://wikitravel.org/en/Image:HarpersFerryWv.jpg). Very different from anything in Texas. (And probably anything in Thailand.)

[ataraxy22]

isn't the cherry tree thing in dc during april?

Usually late March.

[Siam Sam]

april is better than july for the eastern seaboard. we are up to heat wave # 6 or 7 now.

Haha! I'll tell you about heat. But it will be nice to get into a cooler clime for a change. April is our August over here.

The wife things the tandem-bike suggestion is great. (I've not mentioned the extra life insurance yet.)

[Siam Sam]

This is starting to get a little out of hand. Now friends in Connecticut want us to stop there, and so do friends in Boston. That's good and nice of them, but it's starting to feel a bit stretched now. Connecticut's doable, as it's right by New York, they live in a small town, so just a quick overnight and then we can catch the train somewhere. But Boston feels a bit much. I've never been, but the wife has, and we'd like to see places that are new for both of us this trip and have our Boston friends meet us in New York. Especially since now it turns out my friend upcountry over here, who is also a friend of the Boston group, will be in South Carolina at the same time and is thinking about meeting us up in New York. We could all get together in that case.

Anyway, if we do add Boston, what's a good amount of time for the city. Maybe a long weekend? The wife was there for maybe 60 hours 15 years ago, staying with these same friends, and she's no longer even sure what all she saw except for Harvard.

[SciFiSam]

I can't see anyone else mentioning it, but getting on a Whitehouse Tour (http://www.whitehouse.gov/about/tours-and-events) isn't as simple as turning up on time or even booking in advance; you have to request a ticket via your congressman or, if you're a foreign citizen, via your embassy. I'm not sure what you'd do as a US citizen living abroad.

There's more than enough to see in DC, anyway. We stayed at the Washington Plaza Hotel and liked having a pool for chilling out as well being all cultured and sophisticated. We didn't actually use the metro because it was easy to either walk everywhere or use the tourist bus (we used DC bus tours, but there are others). There are also tourist buses out to Arlington, GW's house, etc, which might be a better option than hiring a car just for one trip - you don't stay with the group, you just get taken there.

Given how great it was in August, I'm jealous of you getting to go in April.

[Siam Sam]

Thanks. I do have a congresman based on my voting district in the US, but I think we'll pass on the White House tour. It doesn't sound like any great shakes. (I'm holding out for a personal invitation by President Obama.)

[Boyo Jim]

You could increase the odds with large campaign contributions. Or, for a free extended mini-tour of federal facilities, you could just mail him some threats. :)

[Siam Sam]

I was thinking of hopping over the White House fence. Heard that gets some attention.

[Boyo Jim]

Yes, and you will probably get an extremely close up view of the lawn grass, not to mention it's pleasant scent -- should you survive long enough to be thrown down onto it by the security staff.

[Siam Sam]

New question regarding Gettysburg. In my naivete, I figured it would be nice to have a quick look on our way to Washington. But it's looks like there's more there than I imagined. Would it be worth staying overnight nearby? Or is it really just a day trip?

[Boyo Jim]

Until someone can provide you with a better answer...

I haven't been to Gettysburg, but I've been to several civil war battle sites in Virginia and they have all been disappointing. They consist of open (or fenced) fields and historical markers. Perhaps Gettysburg has re-enactments or something else to make it more interesting. I understand the cemetery is pretty impressive, but I doubt it can compare to Arlington.

[Siam Sam]

Thanks. We'll definitely see Arlington, of course. But I'm interested in Gettysburg because I think it was my great-grandfather fought there with some sort of New York regiment. An aunt and uncle took a tour there one time and seemed to like it.

[Dangerosa]

We just spent a week in DC. We had started with "well, four days will be plenty" and ended up after seven saying "there is so much we didn't do." We had a twelve and thirteen year old with us.

You should login to your U.S. Rep sites and request tickets (I think you are still a U.S. Citizen with a rep, right?). They can do the White House (the tour was good, they run them first thing in the morning - you only see some public rooms, the most amusing things is the specially trained Secret Service agents standing in each room to say "Mary Todd Lincoln purchased this sofa."), Capitol (tour isn't great, but might be worthwhile) and the Bureau of Engraving (fun tour - right next to the Holocaust museum so if you want to do that, plan them together). You'll also want advance tickets for the Holocaust museum if you want to go (its very good, not very upbeat). We spent a whole day riding the Tourmobile and seeing monuments - then going out to Arlington where my husband got trapped by the chattiest park service employee ever. We did Air and Space, Natural History (several times - the human origins exhibit is amazing - especially when you consider 'publically funded in the U.S.') and American History. We saw pandas at the zoo. Went to Ford's Theatre. We went out to Udvar Hazy which was amazing and my son's favorite part of the trip (you can see a Space Shuttle. And the Enola Gay - which I found really creepy). We saw the expensive, but fun, Spy Museum. We walked our feet to stumps, were exhausted each evening and didn't manage to get out to Alexandria, Mount Vernon, or Gettysburg - all on our "if we run out of things" list. And didn't step foot in an Art Museum (I promised the kids ;) But I cheated, we walked THROUGH the National Sculpture Garden)

[Siam Sam]

We just spent a week in DC. We had started with "well, four days will be plenty" and ended up after seven saying "there is so much we didn't do." We had a twelve and thirteen year old with us.

You should login to your U.S. Rep sites and request tickets (I think you are still a U.S. Citizen with a rep, right?). They can do the White House (the tour was good, they run them first thing in the morning - you only see some public rooms, the most amusing things is the specially trained Secret Service agents standing in each room to say "Mary Todd Lincoln purchased this sofa."), Capitol (tour isn't great, but might be worthwhile) and the Bureau of Engraving (fun tour - right next to the Holocaust museum so if you want to do that, plan them together). You'll also want advance tickets for the Holocaust museum if you want to go (its very good, not very upbeat). We spent a whole day riding the Tourmobile and seeing monuments - then going out to Arlington where my husband got trapped by the chattiest park service employee ever. We did Air and Space, Natural History (several times - the human origins exhibit is amazing - especially when you consider 'publically funded in the U.S.') and American History. We saw pandas at the zoo. Went to Ford's Theatre. We went out to Udvar Hazy which was amazing and my son's favorite part of the trip (you can see a Space Shuttle. And the Enola Gay - which I found really creepy). We saw the expensive, but fun, Spy Museum. We walked our feet to stumps, were exhausted each evening and didn't manage to get out to Alexandria, Mount Vernon, or Gettysburg - all on our "if we run out of things" list. And didn't step foot in an Art Museum (I promised the kids ;) But I cheated, we walked THROUGH the National Sculpture Garden)


Thanks. Dang, that sounds like a pretty full trip on its own. Gettysburg we'd hit on our way to DC; planning to rent a car between the two cities. Yes, still a US citizen. The Holocaust Museum is definitely on our list; after touring the Killing Fields and the old Khmer Rouge torture center in Phnom Penh, I think we'll be prepared for that. (I've also visited Dachau Concentration Camp near Munich.)

[booklover]

Turns out that theNational Cherry Blossom Festival (http://www.nationalcherryblossomfestival.org/category/events/)this coming year will be huge because it's the centennial--although the opening ceremony is March 25, events run through April 27.

Ask away if you have questions about DC hotels, Metro, etc. Make sure to book your hotel stay early because of all the spring break travelers.

[Dangerosa]

Thanks. Dang, that sounds like a pretty full trip on its own. Gettysburg we'd hit on our way to DC; planning to rent a car between the two cities. Yes, still a US citizen. The Holocaust Museum is definitely on our list; after touring the Killing Fields and the old Khmer Rouge torture center in Phnom Penh, I think we'll be prepared for that. (I've also visited Dachau Concentration Camp near Munich.)

Oh, the Library of Congress. We didn't intend to go but got into a cab to do our capitol tour and the driver said "see the Library of Congress, its amazing" and then we went to the Capitol tour and the guide said "and while you are here, go over the the Library of Congress."

We didn't do a tour (which is, I hear, cool), but just saw the building and the exhibits - which we didn't have time to do justice to. Including a Gutenberg Bible.

Also we went to the National Archieves where you can see the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and Bill of Rights (and, it was out when we were there, one of 17 original copies of the Magna Carta). Rather faded, but still - you are looking at THE Constitution.

[booklover]

Re-reading the OP, I see you mentioned Motel 6 in DC. The two locations are very different, with the one on 4th St. NE in a fairly sketchy neighborhood. The one on Georgia Ave. NW is in a safer area--I would guess they get a lot of families of military personnel there since Walter Reed is close by.

[gallows fodder]

Gettysburg is pretty close to DC, actually -- it took maybe an hour and half up Rt. 15 the last time I made that trip (~10 years ago). It's a much shorter ride from DC than it is from my home in the Philly suburbs, though.

If you're coming from Philly, you'll probably take Rt. 30, which has a 50 mph speed limit and you're lucky if you'll hit 50 even if there's no traffic because for some ungodly reason, people just coast along like they're on a Sunday drive. And then there usually is a ton of traffic because big trucks take that route to avoid paying tolls across the state. Plus the occasional Amish buggy that will slow things down even more.

So from Philly, it could easily be a 4-hour drive (I live 45 min. west of Philly, and it takes me 3 hours to get to Gettysburg).

It's worth the trip no matter how you get there, though. IIRC, it's the best preserved Civil War battlefield in the country, and it's got a well-marked driving tour and great visitors' center. I've been there at least a dozen times, and I never regret making the long trek out there.

[Caffeine.addict]

Re-reading the OP, I see you mentioned Motel 6 in DC. The two locations are very different, with the one on 4th St. NE in a fairly sketchy neighborhood. The one on Georgia Ave. NW is in a safer area--I would guess they get a lot of families of military personnel there since Walter Reed is close by.

Yeah, that Motel 6 on 4th Street NE is pretty shady and I wouldn't want to be at Union Market at night as the area gets pretty deserted. There is a Courtyard Marriot a few blocks south that is much nicer and almost on top of the Metro.

[Siam Sam]

Also we went to the National Archieves where you can see the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and Bill of Rights (and, it was out when we were there, one of 17 original copies of the Magna Carta). Rather faded, but still - you are looking at THE Constitution.

I'll be damned! I had no idea they had Xerox machines back that far. :eek:;)

Sounds like our week in Washington is going to be rather full. Hopefully New York will have toughened up our leg muscles.

Thanks all, too, for the Motel 6/Gettysburg recommendations. I'll look more into accommodation this month; Motel 6 just popped into my head, so I looked at their website. We'll be wanting a pretty safe aea no matter what we use.

Again on Gettysburg, is it good for a day, or is it worth staying overnight somewhere near there?

[Mr. Miskatonic]

I've done Gettysburg in less than a day - even with taking in the Cyclorama, the museum displays, the light-up map demo and a car tour of the battlefield.

The only way you really take more than a day is if you take one of the very detailed tours with the more obsessive National Park Guides. Loads of info, but a lot that they cover. I come across them on the PA cable channel around early July and they really do know a lot of stuff but man they could talk about the battle for twice as long as it lasted.

[Siam Sam]

Thanks. We're leaning toward making it a day stop on our way to DC.

[Mama Zappa]

Thanks. We're leaning toward making it a day stop on our way to DC.
You might want to stay near there the night before you do the touring, however - e.g. spend the day in Philly or en route to Gettysburg, then spend the day doing Gettysburg, and drive down to DC in the evening.

You don't want to do the hotel the night *after* you do Gettysburg. Well, that'd be fine.... but if you're then heading to DC in the morning, you'd be on the road with several hundred thousand other cars. Not good at all.

The trip from Philly to Gettysburg: you should make a leisurely drive of it - it's pretty countryside (at least the Lancaster area, I haven't been east of there in decades), the Amish countryside is nice, there are places to look at Amish-made things like quilts, there's a fun railroad museum in Strasburg not too far from Lancaster...

it was on a trip to that same railroad museum that I saw the funniest "cognitive dissonance" moment of my life. We were stopped at a traffic light, and observed an Amish man driving a buggy.

Through the drive-through banking lane across the street.

I really, really wanted to snap a photo, but I figured it would be rude.

[Mama Zappa]

Oh - speaking of DC-area hotels: The suburban hotels which are near / on the Metro might be just as good an option as staying in the city itself. And might be considerably cheaper.

Some areas to consider:
Crystal City ( Arlington VA) - some of the hotels there connect to underground shopping areas and then directly to the Metro. May be pretty pricey.

Rosslyn (another part of Arlington VA).

Courthouse / Clarendon (ditto).

There are some nice hotels fairly near the Eisenhower Avenue subway stop in Virginia. Ditto the King Street station.

Bethesda MD.

Silver Spring, MD

I don't know the MD side of things well at all, I admit, but other Dopers can chime in.

The tradeoff is a few more minutes on the Metro to get to the museums.

Many hotels also run shuttles to/from the nearest Metro, but the tradeoff there is what hours the shuttle runs, and also having to wait for it to come get you.

http://www.wmata.com/rail/maps/map.cfm

As you get further out along the suburban lines, you will generally find that accommodations are not necessarily walking distance to the subway station.

You can use Google Street View to get a feel for the neighborhood, and also what kind of a walk it would be.

[Siam Sam]

Thanks again to all. We've pretty much got our time line set now: Eight nights in NYC, a night with friends in Connecticut, four nights in Phillly, a night somewhere near Gettysburg, eight nights in DC, then back to NYC and stay near the airport on the last night, maybe venturing back into the city.

After learning Valley Forge is on the way to Gettysburg, I decided we'd go ahead and do an overnight. Thanks too for the DC hotel suggestions; I haven't had a chance to look closely into that yet, been so busy making sure we've got something in NYC secured.

[Dangerosa]

Thanks again to all. We've pretty much got our time line set now: Eight nights in NYC, a night with friends in Connecticut, four nights in Phillly, a night somewhere near Gettysburg, eight nights in DC, then back to NYC and stay near the airport on the last night, maybe venturing back into the city.

After learning Valley Forge is on the way to Gettysburg, I decided we'd go ahead and do an overnight. Thanks too for the DC hotel suggestions; I haven't had a chance to look closely into that yet, been so busy making sure we've got something in NYC secured.

We stayed downtown - walking distance (though a long walk) to the Mall. It was nice to not have to take the Metro (we took it once, to get to the Zoo, and a few cab rides). But downtown DC is a big East Coast downtown. When we took the Metro out to the zoo, you can find hotels in neighborhoods - much more charming if not as convenient.

[Siam Sam]

The best places to stay are either Georgetown or the Dupont Circle area, northwest of the Mall. There are a lot of small and cozy hotels in that part of town. I'd be careful about picking the very cheapest hotels, because they're likely in the bad parts of town, namely the northeast and southeast. Those neighborhoods simply aren't safe to walk around at night, but Georgetown and Dupont Circle are.

Have a new question. We're looking at accommodation now and see that Georgetown is not served by the Metro but hear the bus service is good. Is relying on the bus to and from Georgetown much of a problem?

[SciFiSam]

Have a new question. We're looking at accommodation now and see that Georgetown is not served by the Metro but hear the bus service is good. Is relying on the bus to and from Georgetown much of a problem?

It'd be fine - it's not even a very long walk.

[Siam Sam]

Thanks, that's good to know. We're actually leaning toward the Tabard Inn (http://tabardinn.com/) in Dupont Circle at the moment, but we are considering Georgetown too.

[Patty O'Furniture]

You can use Google Street View to get a feel for the neighborhood, and also what kind of a walk it would be.

Most walkable neighborhoods in DC (http://www.walkscore.com/DC/Washington_D.C.).

I don't want to sound too discouraging, but a first time tandem ride on the path to Mount Vernon, might not be a good idea. I'm a somewhat seasoned rider of that trail and I get a little nervous when some of those aggressive racing types zoom past me without so much as a beep. Actually, maybe they did beep but the sound waves never caught up to them. If you do end up trying it, make sure you learn the cyclist's rules of the road. There are some seriously steel hills toward the end, too.

It takes me about 2 hours each way, peddling at a good clip and making a few rest stops. For you and the wife I would estimate at least 6-8 hours round trip (if you go all the way to the end), unless you both really take to that tandem and make really good time.

[Patty O'Furniture]

The Tabard is nice, and there's the Swann House (http://swannhouse.com/) which is also really nice but I don't think it has the mini-restaurant or bar that the Tabard has, but it's perfectly located half way between Dupont and U Street, and very close to a mini-restaurant strip with lots of sidewalk tables on 17th Street between P and R (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=swann+house&hl=en&ll=38.91214,-77.038482&spn=0.000008,0.005107&sll=38.912324,-77.037313&sspn=0.010168,0.020428&vpsrc=6&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=38.912261,-77.038479&panoid=0Ib2fhuFmS0ejgcZB81cEA&cbp=12,57.45,,0,-3.15). Just off the top of my head I can think of five different types of ethnic food within that 2-block strip. I'm sure you'll be itching for some Thai food :D

[twickster]

After learning Valley Forge is on the way to Gettysburg, I decided we'd go ahead and do an overnight. Thanks too for the DC hotel suggestions; I haven't had a chance to look closely into that yet, been so busy making sure we've got something in NYC secured.

Valley Forge is "on the way" to Gettysburg, but they're at either end of that trip -- VF is half an hour from Center City Philadelphia, Gettysburg is a couple of hours away.

[Patty O'Furniture]

We're looking at accommodation now and see that Georgetown is not served by the Metro but hear the bus service is good. Is relying on the bus to and from Georgetown much of a problem?

The G2 (http://www.wmata.com/bus/timetables/dc/g2.pdf) connects Georgetown, Dupont and Logan Circles. Runs every half hour most of the time. But the previous poster is correct in that it's hardly a 20 minute walk on P Street between Georgetown and Dupont, so I often don't even bother waiting for a bus.

[Siam Sam]

Thanks again for all the info. Maybe we'll just take out the bike to fool around on it for a couple of hours. Another place we're looking at in DC is called the Inn at Dupont Circle.

I see now that Valley Forge is very close to Philly. But we don't want to rent a car until it's time to leave the city. Is there tourist transportation out to there? Or is it best to just stop by on our way to Gettysburg?

About Gettysburg. I may have made a mistake in mentioning to the wife this weekend that Hershey is nearby, the center of the universe for chocolate. Now she wants to go. (She takes her chocolate seriously.) There's a chocolate museum there that sounds pretty neat actually. I'm thinking once we rent a car and head out of Philly, we'll stop at Valley Forge, stop at Hershey, then overnight in Gettysburg. I assume VF and Hershey can both be done in a day.

[twickster]

You can get to VF by bus (http://www.septa.org/schedules/bus/pdf/125.pdf), but it takes about an hour because it's pretty much a local bus. (It also goes by King of Prussia Mall -- the largest mall on the East Coast, and I think second- or third-largest in the country -- if anyone in your party was interested in doing some shopping.)

[twickster]

BTW, I hope you're planning to announce specific dates when the time comes -- I'll be happy to arrange a Philly Dopefest for you, and am sure NYC and DC will want to do so as well.

[SciFiSam]

Thanks again for all the info. Maybe we'll just take out the bike to fool around on it for a couple of hours. Another place we're looking at in DC is called the Inn at Dupont Circle.

I see now that Valley Forge is very close to Philly. But we don't want to rent a car until it's time to leave the city. Is there tourist transportation out to there? Or is it best to just stop by on our way to Gettysburg?

About Gettysburg. I may have made a mistake in mentioning to the wife this weekend that Hershey is nearby, the center of the universe for chocolate. Now she wants to go. (She takes her chocolate seriously.) There's a chocolate museum there that sounds pretty neat actually. I'm thinking once we rent a car and head out of Philly, we'll stop at Valley Forge, stop at Hershey, then overnight in Gettysburg. I assume VF and Hershey can both be done in a day.

Has she ever read the Chocolate Wars by Deborah Cadbury? The name tells you it's more about the Cadburies than the other firms, but it talks about Milton Hershey quite a lot too. It's way more interesting than a corporate history has any right to be and the audiobook version is very well-read.

[JRDelirious]

Three Philadelphia RR stations were mentioned, but if travelling Amtrak from NYC, Sam's most likely going to 30th Street Station. (BTW, "Suburban" Station is not suburban at all but in the business district; it just has that name because it was originally where the suburban lines connected.)

Still, definitely make the NY/Phila segment on the train. The highways on that segment are always full of surprises(*), in both cities parking costs are stupefying (and unnecessary due to decent transit), and though Amtrak timetables are sometimes just polite suggestions of when it would be nice to have a train run, it's still better for everyone's sanity.

(*I-95 around Philadelphia, and through SW/Central Connecticut has repeatedly stymied me by having drives last 1 hour one day and 3 hours the next...)


I'm thinking once we rent a car and head out of Philly, we'll stop at Valley Forge, stop at Hershey, then overnight in Gettysburg. I assume VF and Hershey can both be done in a day.

Doable, IMO, if you can budget your time. Valley Forge NHP visitor center opens at 9am, so you could hit it first thing in the morning then head for Hershey, which is an hour and a half drive away (per Google). At Hershey (as long as you avoid the Theme Park) Chocolate World and the Hershey Museum should fit an afternoon, then it's an hour (sez Google) to Gettysburg.

[Mama Zappa]

It'd be fine - it's not even a very long walk.
Yep - 15ish blocks from the Foggy Bottom metro to the "main drag" where most of the restaurants are (might even be less?). I've heard that some folks actually go to Rosslyn (Arlington VA) and walk across the bridge but I can't think that's any closer.

[Siam Sam]

Thanks, all. Our plans are coming together, and I can tell you we'll be in Philly four nights starting April 14. I've just booked a nice B&B in the Historic District/South Street area. We'll actually be coming from Connecticut, a small town maybe an hour outside of NYC, as we'll be staying with friends there after leaving New York. I'm hoping they can point us to a train to Philly. After our side trip to Gettysburg (and Hershey), we'll be in Washington for a week from the 19th. NYC will be a week starting April 5.

For Hershey, we'll definitely skip the amusement park. Not that we have anything against amusement parks, but we just can't fit it in. We'll check out the museum and then head to Gettysburg.

[Siam Sam]

We've gone ahead and made reservations with the Tabard in DC, near Dupont Circle. But here's something that's annoying: Someone recommended we check out staying across the Potomac in Arlington, Virginia. Said if we stayed by a Metro stop, it was almost as convenient as being in DC, plus the rates and Virgina hotel tax were lower. Doing some checking, I found the Key Bridge Marriott right by Rosslyn Metro Station, just across the river. Looking at the rates, we could get a room for $119 a night. Great! Perfect! But what's this here? Right in the middle of our stay, the rate would bump up to the high-season tariff of $269. !!! Averaging it out, we'd be paying exactly $1 less than for the Tabard pre-tax. Grrr. Rather than move our entire trip up a few days, we'll just go with the Tabard. Every other hotel in Arlington that's convenient to a Metro looks to be bumped up for that entire period except for ones farther away from the river and a good distance from the Metro.

But if anyone has suggestions for Arlington, please share them, as we've only reserved at the Tabard, not paid.

[Siam Sam]

Time is getting close. Just one more question: As mentioned, we're picking up a car in Philly to take to Gettysburg, then dropping it off in DC. But we're thinking of keeping it an extra day to have it to drive out to Mount Vernon. We'll have to pay some stiff overnight parking fees in Washington, but an extra day's rental is only another $125 or so all in. Is it worth it keep the car like that, or is public transport out to there so reliable that it's really a waste?

[MsRobyn]

I live very, very close to Gettysburg, so if you'd like some company for lunch, PM me and we'll work something out. I can also give some information about local attractions and stuff.

Robin, of the Central Pennsylvania Dopers.

[Boyo Jim]

Time is getting close. Just one more question: As mentioned, we're picking up a car in Philly to take to Gettysburg, then dropping it off in DC. But we're thinking of keeping it an extra day to have it to drive out to Mount Vernon. We'll have to pay some stiff overnight parking fees in Washington, but an extra day's rental is only another $125 or so all in. Is it worth it keep the car like that, or is public transport out to there so reliable that it's really a waste?

So I guess you're not gonna do the bike idea.

There are cruises (http://www.trustedtours.com/store/spirit-of-washington-dc-mt-vernon-cruise-and-tour.aspx) down the Potomac to Mount Vernon.

FYI, DC Tourmobile recently shut down so if you had any plans for it, change them.

Gray Line (http://www.grayline.com/Washington_DC) runs a bunch of tours from DC including to Mount Vernon. It's a 4 hour trip that includes Alexandria, which is woreth seeing too, but that isn't enough time IMO to do both, especially if you want to stop and have a leisurely lunch somewhere.

Parking is free at Mount Vernon (http://www.mountvernon.org/search/node/parking), and the entrance fee is pretty reasonable (http://www.mountvernon.org/tickets).

[DCnDC]

We'll have to pay some stiff overnight parking fees in Washington,

http://washingtondc.centralparking.com/Washington-DC-11-Dupont-Circle-NW-Parking.html

$7 - $14, with coupon.

[twickster]

Thanks, all. Our plans are coming together, and I can tell you we'll be in Philly four nights starting April 14. I've just booked a nice B&B in the Historic District/South Street area.

Start an MPSIMS thread closer to the time and we'll organize a Dopefest for you.

[ReticulatingSplines]

is public transport out to there so reliable that it's really a waste?

WMATA is only reliable in the sense that it reliably lets you down. Keep the car. Just last weekend they shut down several entire stations for track work, and buses frequently just don't show up. Mount Vernon by public transport is a long train ride plus a bus connection.

[DCnDC]

WMATA is only reliable in the sense that it reliably lets you down. Keep the car. Just last weekend they shut down several entire stations for track work, and buses frequently just don't show up. Mount Vernon by public transport is a long train ride plus a bus connection.

Be fair. For weekday commuting and getting around town it's pretty convenient, but yes it goes way downhill on weekends. If a trip is going to involve Metro'ing to the end of the line and getting on a bus, yeah, you're much better off keeping the car.

[Siam Sam]

We'll keep the bike idea, but not to Mt Vernon. The wife likes the idea of a tandem ride but not that distance.

Thanks for the info. We'll be keeping the car the extra day. Drive around some and take a look at Alexandria in addition to Mt Vernon. My US license expired long ago, but I have an international one based on my Thai license. Should be fun. Will take twickster's suggestion and see about a Dopefest as time gets closer.

[Boyo Jim]

If you're going to be in DC on a Sunday, I suggest biking along Beach Drive in Rock Creek Park, when they shut down the auto traffic.

[Siam Sam]

That sounds good. The wife's never learned to ride a bike, so that would make her more comfortable with it.

[Boyo Jim]

Yup, having thought about it some, the Mount Vernon bike trail is kinda narrow and twisty for a tandem, even aside from any distance issues.

[Siam Sam]

Yup, having thought about it some, the Mount Vernon bike trail is kinda narrow and twisty for a tandem, even aside from any distance issues.

I'm glad we decided against biking out to Mt Vernon, as I have a history of getting us into situations that are harassing for her. Such as getting us lost on a hike up on Tantalus on Oahu and actually emerging miles away from where we should have. Or walking down a small mountain outside of Pokhara, Nepal instead of finding some sort of transport; on that one, her legs gave out at one point and she rolled into a rice paddy.

[MsRobyn]

Start an MPSIMS thread closer to the time and we'll organize a Dopefest for you.

I might even go. :D

[Boyo Jim]

Then I would say to skip the tandem bike altogether unless you can do Beach drive on a Sunday. I wouldn't go out on any streets in DC with a shaky rider and unfamiliar bike -- auto traffic is heavy and constant. And the bike trails are all narrow and also filled with hikers. Beach Drive is the only place I can think of that's safe enough.

It does have the advantage of being beautiful and it allows you almost to forget that you're in the middle of a big city. It also runs right next to the National Zoo, another nice place to visit.

[pseudotriton ruber ruber]

The Beach Drive is a good idea. You can lock the bike up and walk along Rock Creek (or visit the Zoo, as suggested) which is quite lovely. Teddy Rex used to go horseback-riding along the creek when he was President. You could even lock it up and stroll (uphill a few blocks) the streets of Adams-Morgan--a nice place for a lunch on a good day.

[Mama Zappa]

WMATA is only reliable in the sense that it reliably lets you down. Keep the car. Just last weekend they shut down several entire stations for track work, and buses frequently just don't show up. Mount Vernon by public transport is a long train ride plus a bus connection.
Or a cab from the Huntington Metro station.

A car would certainly be easier, but is it worth 125 extra dollars?

Metro is pretty reliable, weekend track work notwithstanding. Those can be a pain. Depending on what day(s) you'll be in DC and when you're going to want to go where.

One of the Smithsonian museums (the Air and Space Museum's Udvar-Hazy center) is located 20ish miles west of town; if you're interested in going there a car would be useful (though there is some kind of bus that runs - for a fee - from the A&S museum location in the city).

[Mama Zappa]

I'm glad we decided against biking out to Mt Vernon, as I have a history of getting us into situations that are harassing for her. Such as getting us lost on a hike up on Tantalus on Oahu and actually emerging miles away from where we should have. Or walking down a small mountain outside of Pokhara, Nepal instead of finding some sort of transport; on that one, her legs gave out at one point and she rolled into a rice paddy.
WHOOPS!!!

For what it's worth, the bike trail to Mount Vernon is pretty much "can't get lost" once you're on the Virginia side of things (though around the airport there might be some traffic to deal with). But it *is* a long ride if you're not in shape.

[Mama Zappa]

....

About Gettysburg. I may have made a mistake in mentioning to the wife this weekend that Hershey is nearby, the center of the universe for chocolate. Now she wants to go. (She takes her chocolate seriously.) There's a chocolate museum there that sounds pretty neat actually. I'm thinking once we rent a car and head out of Philly, we'll stop at Valley Forge, stop at Hershey, then overnight in Gettysburg. I assume VF and Hershey can both be done in a day.
(former Hershey neighbor here): Depends on what you want to do in Hershey. There's a pretty significant theme part there as well - called, not surprisingly, Hersheypark :).

Chocolate World (where you ride a ride through a cutesy educational exhibit, get a small piece of free candy, then get dumped into a huge shop that sells all things chocolate) is free - parking is even free (just follow the signs for Chocolate World vs the park). Interestingly, I've never visited the museum itself. If you want to go to the park, that's certainly a full day; depending on your travel dates however it may or may not be open for the season yet.

A drive down Chocolate Avenue (I think) shows the nifty streetlights which are shaped like Hershey Kisses.

I'd actually suggest making a point of driving through some of the local roads in Amish country (en route from Philly to Hershey). One of my favorite "cognitive dissonance" moments was when we were stopped at a traffic light in Strasburg. catty-corner from a bank with a drive-up window..... and watched an Amish man take his horse-drawn buggy through the drive-up.

[Mama Zappa]

....
If you're coming from Philly, you'll probably take Rt. 30, which has a 50 mph speed limit and you're lucky if you'll hit 50 even if there's no traffic because for some ungodly reason, people just coast along like they're on a Sunday drive. And then there usually is a ton of traffic because big trucks take that route to avoid paying tolls across the state. Plus the occasional Amish buggy that will slow things down even more.
....
(I should read the whole thread and reply ONCE, not spam with a bunch of little posts in a row - sorry!).
Actually, coming from Philly, they could take the Pennsylvania Turnpike. It's a toll road, but is likely to be faster than US 30 if not quite as direct. I've never taken 30 except for a few miles west of Lancaster. The turnpike would put you on Route 15 30ish miles north of Gettysburg; US 15 is an easy drive to Gettysburg from there. To go to Hershey, you'd get off at the Harrisburg East exit near the airport, or you could exit 20ish miles east of there at Lancaster.

[cmkeller]

Siam Sam:

Thanks. I do have a congresman based on my voting district in the US, but I think we'll pass on the White House tour. It doesn't sound like any great shakes.

It really isn't any great shakes as a tour, but it doesn't take long to do, and how do you say you've "seen" Washington DC when you didn't do its most well-known landmark? I live in New York, so I've been in incredibly tall buildings and seen views from up high, but I never for a second considered visiting Saint Louis without going up the Arch, or Seattle without the Space Needle. An iconic landmark is its own sense of greatness.

I'll echo what most people here suggested in Washington, and add two more sites that I didn't see mentioned: The Crime and Punishment Museum (it's about a blocks away from the Spy Museum and costs about the same amount) and the Voice of America Radio studio tour (free, their offices are about two blocks from the Air and Space Museum).

Also, just outside of Washington on the Maryland side (in Ford Meade, to be specific) is the NSA's Cryptography Museum. Awesome and unique place.

[Boyo Jim]

... that Hershey is nearby, the center of the universe for chocolate. Now she wants to go. (She takes her chocolate seriously.) There's a chocolate museum there that sounds pretty neat actually. I'm thinking once we rent a car and head out of Philly, we'll stop at Valley Forge, stop at Hershey, then overnight in Gettysburg. I assume VF and Hershey can both be done in a day.

I hope she realizes that Hershey is the center of the chocolate universe like Budweiser is the center of the beer universe. The taste is... less than one would hope for such popular products.

[Boyo Jim]

...
Also, just outside of Washington on the Maryland side (in Ford Meade, to be specific) is the NSA's Cryptography Museum. Awesome and unique place.

That's a ways out, isn't it? About half way between DC and Baltimore?

[BetsQ]

That's a ways out, isn't it? About half way between DC and Baltimore?

It's only an exit or two past the Beltway. I've never been, though.

Re: the bike path, where do you plan to start? I understand that the southern end (through downtown) is a little more challenging, and the road isn't closed there. You might also think about the C&) Canal Towpath (http://bikewashington.org/canal/canal_a.php) or the Capital Crescent Trail (http://bikewashington.org/trails/cct/cct.htm), both of which are immediately accessible from Georgetown and have no motor vehicle traffic to contend with. I haven't actually done Beach Dr/Rock Creek Trail that far south, so maybe it isn't too bad.

[cmkeller]

Boyo Jim:

That's a ways out, isn't it? About half way between DC and Baltimore?

When I went there, I was coming from Baltimore, and it took me about 1/2 hour, with traffic not a major issue in my drive, so it has to be closer to Washington.

[Siam Sam]

Thanks again, all. Definitely will keep the car the extra day. I figure we can spend a day driving around to Mount Vernon, Alexandria, maybe even Baltimore. I drive once a decade or so these days, so it will be fun. (Just stay out of my way! :eek:! Nah, I'm actually a good driver). Doing Beach Drive in Rock Creek Park on a Sunday sounds good. (Isn't that the park where that congressman's aide was murdered? And even though it turned out he didn't do it, suspicion fell on him all summer of 2001 because they had been having an affair? I remember that being the big news story in the US until 9/11 finally bumped it down the ladder.)

Still not sure about the White House tour. But for Hershey, if it does turn out to be rather flat, that might not be a bad thing. Means we can cross it off our list quickly. The theme park itself we hadn't planned to hit and are not even sure if it's open mid-April when we're there.

[Typo Knig]

But for Hershey, if it does turn out to be rather flat, that might not be a bad thing. Means we can cross it off our list quickly. The theme park itself we hadn't planned to hit and are not even sure if it's open mid-April when we're there.

Hershey Park is only open for the first two weekends in April:

http://www.hersheypark.com/hours/index.php

Chocolate World is open pretty much year 'round:

http://www.hersheys.com/chocolateworld/visitor-info.aspx

[Boyo Jim]

Yup, IIRC they found her body in Rock creek Park.

I don't think you can do Mount Vernon, Alexandria and Baltimore in a day -- or it would be a long day. They are nearly opposite directions from DC. Baltimore is about an hour's drive to the northeast, and the other two are to the south across the Potomac.

You could spend every minute of a week in the museums on and around the Mall and only see a fraction of what's there, so give lots of thought to your priorities.

[Boyo Jim]

Here is Wiki's list of DC museums (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_museums_in_Washington,_D.C.). It doesn't seem to include museums that are just outside the District's borders.

So, here's their list of Virginia museums (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_museums_in_Virginia). Arlington and Alexandria are right next door to DC. Some other cities on the list that aren't real far away: Langley, Great Falls, Fairfax, Vienna, Mount Vernon, Lorton, Vienna, Leesburg, Reston. Maybe a few others, but my memory is failing.


And the list of museums in Maryland (Baltimore is about an hour's drive)
Some other cities the list that are not prohibitively far: Annapolis, Columbia, Beltsville, Suitland, College Park, Bowie, Upper Marlboro, Glen Echo, Fort George G. Meade, Rockville, Greenbelt, Laurel, Oxon Hill, Germantown.

[Siam Sam]

Yup, IIRC they found her body in Rock creek Park.

I don't think you can do Mount Vernon, Alexandria and Baltimore in a day -- or it would be a long day. They are nearly opposite directions from DC. Baltimore is about an hour's drive to the northeast, and the other two are to the south across the Potomac.

You could spend every minute of a week in the museums on and around the Mall and only see a fraction of what's there, so give lots of thought to your priorities.

I admit Baltimore probably is not realistic. Probably we'll check out Mount Vernon and Old Town in Alexandria in a day and drive around a bit. The Mall is pretty much where we'll be centered for the next week or so.

This is assuming we can get a car. The rental website started asking me surrealistically impossible questions. I even called them in the US and asked what to do, and they'd not encountered this before. Gave up and will try again tomorrow.

[Siam Sam]

Yup, IIRC they found her body in Rock creek Park.

I still recall sitting in my Beijing hotel room in August 2001 watching some lady talking head pontificate on the case. Then a month later she was on one of the hijacked 9/11 flights.


I don't think you can do Mount Vernon, Alexandria and Baltimore in a day -- or it would be a long day. They are nearly opposite directions from DC. Baltimore is about an hour's drive to the northeast, and the other two are to the south across the Potomac.

You could spend every minute of a week in the museums on and around the Mall and only see a fraction of what's there, so give lots of thought to your priorities.

I admit Baltimore probably is not realistic. Probably we'll check out Mount Vernon and Old Town in Alexandria in a day and drive around a bit. The Mall is pretty much where we'll be centered for the next week or so.

This is assuming we can get a car. The rental website started asking me surrealistically impossible questions. I even called them in the US and asked what to do, and they'd not encountered this before. Gave up and will try again tomorrow.

[madmonk28]

Chandra Levy was the name of the woman who was murdered in Rock Creek Park. It turned out that a man who was already in jail for assaulting other women in the park was responsible and tha Congressman Condit had nothing to do with it, but he went out of his way to make it look like he did (he was caught throwing away a watch she had given him). But don't let that scare you away, Rock Creek Park is a great urban park; on Saturdays and Sundays they close part of the roadway to vehicles and open it up to bikes and pedestrians, about a mile south of that point is the National Zoo.

Mt. Vernon, Old Town, DC and Baltimore in one day is not really viable, as you noted. You said you haven't driven much in the past few years, traffic can be really horrific here. If you are around the Mall at lunchtime, the American Indian Museum has a great cafeteria. Also, there is ice skating on the mall (although I don't know when they stop doing it for the season).

BTW, the Mall is all dug up right now as they are building a new museum and doing other landscaping and if you get off at the Smithsonian Metro and someone tries to sell you a map, it's a racket: the maps can be had for free at a kiosk a few yards east of the Metro escalators.

The going out guide at www.washingtonposts.com has a listing for museums that lists what special exhibits are taking place.

[Siam Sam]

I'm sure I'll have no problem with driving. I always get back into the swing of it quickly, and I'll have a few days of rural practice. Plus I'll be insured, so I can play bumper cars if I get stressed, heh.

Thanks for the heads up on the Mall. Feels like everywhere we go is being dug up for one thing or another. Thanks for the tip on the maps too.

[madmonk28]

I'm sure you'd do fine on the road, it's just that rush hour in the DC area is a profoundly miserable experience, but when you are actually in the city, it's not that big of a deal (except around 14th street or the other arteries in and out of the city).

[Boyo Jim]

Parking is a bigger problem than driving.

[madmonk28]

That's true, I assumed the hotel had parking for the car.

[Siam Sam]

Unfortunately, the hotel we've booked doesn't have parking and "recommends" a nearby carpark that costs something like $25 a day or overnight or something. May be the parking lot DCnDC recommended on the previous page, as we're staying in DuPont Circle. We may be switching places though if we can get something good on Priceline.

But we do have the car now. The website worked tonight, and we've reserved and paid for a car for four days, Philadelphia-DC via Gettysburg.

[madmonk28]

NM

[madmonk28]

Today's Washington Post had an article on planning a trip to DC. Oddly, I can't seem to find that artticle on their website, but I did find some other similar pieces. You might need to register to view the article, but it's free.

BTW, did you know that DC was recently voted the 3rd rudest city in America by a travel magazine? We'll have to try harder.

Here are a couple of articles
http://www.washingtonpost.com/gog/dc-visitors-guide.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/three-days-in-dc-day-1/2011/05/25/AGro1WBH_story.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/03/AR2006020302168.html

[Mama Zappa]

Today's Washington Post had an article on planning a trip to DC. Oddly, I can't seem to find that artticle on their website, but I did find some other similar pieces. You might need to register to view the article, but it's free.

BTW, did you know that DC was recently voted the 3rd rudest city in America by a travel magazine? We'll have to try harder.

Here are a couple of articles
http://www.washingtonpost.com/gog/dc-visitors-guide.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/three-days-in-dc-day-1/2011/05/25/AGro1WBH_story.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/03/AR2006020302168.html
Huh.

Well, we *do* have the worst *traffic* (seriously - we used to be second after LA but we beat 'em a couple years back), so I guess that's something ;).

[Caffeine.addict]

BTW, did you know that DC was recently voted the 3rd rudest city in America by a travel magazine? We'll have to try harder.



I don't think we are rude so much as we don't give a shit.

[DCnDC]

I don't think we are rude so much as we don't give a shit.

That's how I see it, but to the recipient the effect is the same either way.

[madmonk28]

We wouldn't need to be rude at all if people would just stand on the right on the god-damned escalators.

[Caffeine.addict]

We wouldn't need to be rude at all if people would just stand on the right on the god-damned escalators.

Isn't that the root cause of 50% of the city's homicides this year? The other 50% being Maryland drivers. ;)

[madmonk28]

God, Maryland drivers, they just piss me off so much. If a car comes speeding through my neighborhood, doesn't stop at the sign and then ignores pedestrians in the crosswalk, I don't even have to look for the MD tags.

[Boyo Jim]

God, Maryland drivers, they just piss me off so much. If a car comes speeding through my neighborhood, doesn't stop at the sign and then ignores pedestrians in the crosswalk, I don't even have to look for the MD tags.

What neighborhood in DC has traffic light enough for cars to speed in?

[madmonk28]

Actually most of the city during the day. It's only around the arteries into and out of the city that it is clogged. In my neighborhood, Petworth, MD drivers cut through our street to get from NH ave to North Cap, and they seem oblivious that the city is comprised of a bunch of neighgorhoods with people in it. They installed a speed hump on our street and MD drivers speed up the street, slam on the brakes for the hump and then floor it again.

[Caffeine.addict]

Actually most of the city during the day. It's only around the arteries into and out of the city that it is clogged. In my neighborhood, Petworth, MD drivers cut through our street to get from NH ave to North Cap, and they seem oblivious that the city is comprised of a bunch of neighgorhoods with people in it. They installed a speed hump on our street and MD drivers speed up the street, slam on the brakes for the hump and then floor it again.

Its the same thing in my neighborhood. We get people trying to avoid traffic on New York Avenue and Benning H Street. I'm always a little hesitant when they fix the streets because that keeps people from speeding.

Parking can be pretty tight around Dupont Circle and the mall during the week. I haven't had many issues on the weekends but we tend to visit the museums in the winter to avoid tourist season.

[madmonk28]

My tip for parking around the Mall on the weekends: there is usually street parking to the south of the Mall due south from the American Indian Museum, there's a government building (maybe Dept. of Energy?) that has metered parking around that doesn't fill up even when the Mall is jammed and is just a block or two walk to the museums.

[madmonk28]

Sorry for the doubl post, but it is the Dept. of Education. You can usually find parking on Maryland Avenue, or on one of the streets south of the Dept. of Ed (4th and Cish SW).

[Siam Sam]

BTW, did you know that DC was recently voted the 3rd rudest city in America by a travel magazine? We'll have to try harder.

Yeah? Well, fuck you, buddy! (Just trying to get in some practice.) My old theater-arts professor back in Texas had done some work in New York. He said when you first get there, you're trying to edge through the crowds and going, "'Scuse me. Excuse me. Pardon me." Then after a week, you're all, "Get the fuck out of my way! I'm walkin' here! I'm walkin' here!"

Those are some good articles. Thanks.

[Siam Sam]

One more question, and I promise it will (probably) be my last. We're looking at the Metro system and see there is a one-week pass for $47 for unlimited Metro travel. And there's a SmarTrip Card for $30 (starts off with $25 worth of fares) that seems to be just a stored-value card for rail bus and even parking; is that correct? Someone recommended to us the SmartTrip Card, but if it's just stored value, I'm not sure I see why that's better than the pass.

[beowulff]

I haven't read through the entire thread, so someone may have mentioned this already, but the Newseum (http://www.newseum.org/) is worth a visit. It's not free, but it's pretty interesting especially if you have an interest in media. Also, the Holocaust museum (http://www.ushmm.org/) is an excellent, if sobering, visit.

[Boyo Jim]

One more question, and I promise it will (probably) be my last. We're looking at the Metro system and see there is a one-week pass for $47 for unlimited Metro travel. And there's a SmarTrip Card for $30 (starts off with $25 worth of fares) that seems to be just a stored-value card for rail bus and even parking; is that correct? Someone recommended to us the SmartTrip Card, but if it's just stored value, I'm not sure I see why that's better than the pass.

The standard Metro card just stores whatever cash you put in, so you'll have to do some figuring as to whether an unlimited card is going to be worth it given how often you think you and the family will ride it.

The fares vary by distance, and there is a premium for traveling during morning or afternoon rush hours. Here is the Metrorail general fare info page (http://www.wmata.com/fares/metrorail.cfm). On this page (http://www.wmata.com/rail/stations.cfm) you can look up any station, and once you click on it, you can find the fare to any other station, with or without the rush hour premium.

One thing that will not work is to use the same card for multiple people. You can't pass thought the turnstyle and hand back the card for the next person to use.

Here's their blurb on the SmarTrip card (http://www.wmata.com/fares/smartrip/), which didn't exist when I lived there. It doesn't say anything about whether you can use it for parking, so I couldn't say whether that's true. Reading it, it seems to me there are only two reasons it's worthwhile -- it can hold a lot more money than a standard card, and it can be used on multiple transit systems in the metro area. I'm not seeing any particular advantage for a family that's visiting for a week.

[Typo Knig]

The SmartTrip card not only can be used for parking at Metro stations, it's pretty much the only way to pay. Some exits at some stations take credit cards, but not all exits, and some stations only take SmartTrip for parking. Metro parking is free on Saturdays and Sundays. And not all Metro stations have parking. Check WMATA's web site for details.

[Boyo Jim]

Re: parking. On the same web page where you can look up individual Metro stations you can also find information about parking or the lack of it for Metro passengers at each individual station.

[Mama Zappa]

The SmartTrip card not only can be used for parking at Metro stations, it's pretty much the only way to pay. Some exits at some stations take credit cards, but not all exits, and some stations only take SmartTrip for parking. Metro parking is free on Saturdays and Sundays. And not all Metro stations have parking. Check WMATA's web site for details.
Concur - but unless you expect to be parking your car at the Metro, this is probably not something you'll worry about - you're staying in town somewhere. The Smart Trip card is not likely to be the right option for you.

It doesn't say anything about whether you can use it for parking, so I couldn't say whether that's true. Reading it, it seems to me there are only two reasons it's worthwhile -- it can hold a lot more money than a standard card, and it can be used on multiple transit systems in the metro area. I'm not seeing any particular advantage for a family that's visiting for a week.
I agree. For those of us who live locally, it's useful - we've used ours on the local bus system. But since you have to pay the 5.00 to purchase it, that's money thrown away, for convenience that Siam Sam won't really need.

[Siam Sam]

Thanks. It's true that parking at the Metro won't be a consideration for us. We'll still have the car for one day to use outside the city, then turn it in. I expect the vast majority of our time (a week after turning in the car) will be centered around the Mall.