Missing banter at work

[Bibliovore]

[background note - I'm hard of hearing and wear hearing aids]

I'm getting really fucking pissed off at missing twenty fucking conversations a day here at work - especially when people keep fucking talking over my fucking head as though I'm not fucking there.

HELLO! Why the fuck don't you try actually having a fucking conversation with me once in a while? I don't particularly give a shit about whatever the latest fucking gossip actually IS, but it'd be fucking nice to be fucking included once in a fucking while. Why the fuck do I have to keep fucking asking what's going on and trying to get involved in the conversation? It makes me feel like a needy little kid rather than a member of the "team" who's actually valued enough to share a bit of banter with. It's so fucking isolating and demoralising, but at the same time such a seemingly petty issue that even bringing it up will make me sound like the world's whiniest, most pathetic asshole.

FUCK!

[ladyfoxfyre]

[background note - I'm hard of hearing and wear hearing aids]


Maybe they've tried to include you, but due to your hearing issues you are unaware, and they assume that means you are ignoring them/don't care to be included.

[Living Well Is Best Revenge]

Can you turn up the hearing aid?

[Sicks Ate]

Perhaps they find it unpleasant to talk to you because you say 'fuck' all the time.

But what the fuck do I know.

[Bibliovore]

Everyone in our 5-strong team is aware of my hearing difficulty. I know they're not trying to include me because I'm looking at them when they speak - they're directing their conversation to each other and not to me. In fact they're not even looking at me to see whether I'm following. The only time they do look at me during these conversations is when I pipe up to ask who or what they're talking about. My trying to include myself in this way should be ample evidence to them that I want to be included, but I can't keep saying "What? What?" like a fucking child.

It's so demoralising - some days it rolls off my back, but today it's hurting.

[BubbaDog]

It's the look on your face.

Just a guess but people who have difficulty hearing will usually frown when they are concentrating on the sounds and speech they hear.

Your co-workers have incorrectly mistaken the look on your face for disapproval.
They think that by including you they are annoying you.

You might just work it into the conversation (that you start) that you have to work a little harder at conversation but you still want to be included. Tell them the frowns are concentration moves.

Also, If you are constantly asking them to repeat what they said then it's time to upgrade the hearing aid.

And fuck 'em if they can't get a clue.

[Bibliovore]

Can you turn up the hearing aid?

Wish I could. I wear them in both ears and even when they're in, I have trouble following group conversations that are batted back and forth across the desks.

[Double Foolscap]

Have you tried starting banter yourself, to show willing? Maybe your coworkers suspect that you don't care about gossip, so think that they're being courteous by not wasting your time. A few "So how 'bout them Knicks" comments might go some way to counteract that.

[Sicks Ate]

Wish I could. I wear them in both ears and even when they're in, I have trouble following group conversations that are batted back and forth across the desks.

I think that it's possible that this is exactly the reason that they are 'talking over your head.'

It's obviously very difficult for you to follow a conversation between multiple participants, and I'm sure they do realize that.

But it's probably also awkward for them to stop a conversation to repeat to you what has been said. Which sucks, but that's what I'm feeling.

[Lightray]

HELLO! Why the fuck don't you try actually having a fucking conversation with me once in a while? I don't particularly give a shit about whatever the latest fucking gossip actually IS, but it'd be fucking nice to be fucking included once in a fucking while...
You answered your own question, I think. They don't include you once in a while because you don't particularly give a shit about whatever they're talking about amongst themselves.

I'm left out of sports conversations at work because I have no interest in them (well, except for the ultrarare swimming conversation in Olympics years). Everyone can tell that I have no interest in sports conversations, and so when they're talking about the latest baseball game they don't include me. If I were to show an interest in baseball -- keep up on the players, follow the scores, etc. -- then I'd be included.

[Bibliovore]

Perhaps they find it unpleasant to talk to you because you say 'fuck' all the time.

But what the fuck do I know.

Hah I know you're kidding, but I never swear at work - the one time I swore out loud at an email I'd received, everyone was shocked! No I save my profanities for when I'm venting in the Pit or when I'm driving. :D

[lieu]

Perhaps they find it unpleasant to talk to you because you say 'fuck' all the time.Perhaps he's not actually saying it though but, instead, just using sign language.

[Vinyl Turnip]

I have a bad ear. I cope by either pretending I heard and understood what was said (simply nodding and murmuring "mmm" is amazingly effective, and I've yet to accidentally agree to wear a puffy shirt), or by repeating what I thought they said.

"Am I sailing back to port? Huh?"

"No, I said have you emailed me that report?"

"Ahh. Yeah, I don't even own a boat."

[Bibliovore]

It's the look on your face.

Just a guess but people who have difficulty hearing will usually frown when they are concentrating on the sounds and speech they hear.

Your co-workers have incorrectly mistaken the look on your face for disapproval.
They think that by including you they are annoying you.

You might just work it into the conversation (that you start) that you have to work a little harder at conversation but you still want to be included. Tell them the frowns are concentration moves.

Also, If you are constantly asking them to repeat what they said then it's time to upgrade the hearing aid.

And fuck 'em if they can't get a clue.

Thanks Bubba, but they all know about my hearing as I've explained it to them. they also know that when I frown at them in that particular way I'm just concentrating, not disapproving. And yeah, better hearing aids would be great but they're not cheap and I can't afford them right now. Even with top-of the line hearing aids though, I'm always going to be struggling.

[Bibliovore]

You answered your own question, I think. They don't include you once in a while because you don't particularly give a shit about whatever they're talking about amongst themselves.

I'm left out of sports conversations at work because I have no interest in them (well, except for the ultrarare swimming conversation in Olympics years). Everyone can tell that I have no interest in sports conversations, and so when they're talking about the latest baseball game they don't include me. If I were to show an interest in baseball -- keep up on the players, follow the scores, etc. -- then I'd be included.

Maybe, but they do this regardless of the topic. I'm not fussed about celebrity gossip for example, but they'll act this way no matter what they're talking about.

[amanset]

Do you start many conversations? Because right now all this seems to be about what other people do. Living in a foreign country where it took me years to get proficient at the local lingo, I've spent years not knowing what the fuck is going on. I never expected people to speak English just for me. I just had to roll with it.

[Bibliovore]

I think that it's possible that this is exactly the reason that they are 'talking over your head.'

It's obviously very difficult for you to follow a conversation between multiple participants, and I'm sure they do realize that.

But it's probably also awkward for them to stop a conversation to repeat to you what has been said. Which sucks, but that's what I'm feeling.

Then what's the solution? There has to be a happy medium between repeating every single word for my benefit and completely fucking ignoring me altogether. Seriously, I really don't feel like a member of the team because I'm excluded from participating in the socialising banter at work.

[Bibliovore]

Do you start many conversations? Because right now all this seems to be about what other people do. Living in a foreign country where it took me years to get proficient at the local lingo, I've spent years not knowing what the fuck is going on. I never expected people to speak English just for me. I just had to roll with it.

I used to. I'd always make a point of greeting everyone every morning, offering to make coffee, etc.. I even ask questions when I do catch a snippet of conversation in order to show an interest.

I'm really not a sullen, sulky kinda guy - any Doper who's met me knows that - but this kind of shit grinds me down sometimes to the point where if I'm having a really bad day, I'll just jam on a set of headphones as a sort of "fuck you" to all of them, and seethe quietly as they chatter and laugh around me.

[Bibliovore]

Perhaps he's not actually saying it though but, instead, just using sign language.

As my hearing is steadily deteriorating and I'm only in my mid-thirties at the moment, there's a very real possibility that I'm eventually going to lose my hearing completely and I'll have to learn sign language. :( Fuck, that's too depressing to even think about right now, but if that happens, one of the first thimgs I'm going to learn is how to swear, and then I'll roundly curse the whole fucking lot of 'em! That'll teach the fuckers!

Hah! Take that! I gesticulate at you provocatively! *waggle, waggle, twiddle*

[Sicks Ate]

Perhaps he's not actually saying it though but, instead, just using sign language.

Notice how lieu didn't even direct that comment toward you; talked right over your head! What a dick!

No, I mean that. That was kind of a fucking dicky comment.

[FuriousGeorge]

You're more than welcome to my share of work banter. Oddly I just got to hear the tale of the bunion problems of the woman who sits in the cube behind me... complete with visual aids.

Am now off my feed for the rest of the day.


You lucky, lucky bastard. Proper little boss' pet, aren't you? I lay awake at night dreaming to be left out of the work banter.

[Sicks Ate]

Then what's the solution? There has to be a happy medium between repeating every single word for my benefit and completely fucking ignoring me altogether. Seriously, I really don't feel like a member of the team because I'm excluded from participating in the socialising banter at work.


Hm, well that's a tough question. I can't think of anything that would completely alleviate the problem.

A happy medium might be to just not even try to get involved in the huge busy conversations. Stick with the smaller ones, where you can focus on one or two other people.

Barring better hearing aids, I'm not sure there is a very good solution.

[Bibliovore]

I have a bad ear. I cope by either pretending I heard and understood what was said (simply nodding and murmuring "mmm" is amazingly effective, and I've yet to accidentally agree to wear a puffy shirt), or by repeating what I thought they said.

"Am I sailing back to port? Huh?"

"No, I said have you emailed me that report?"

"Ahh. Yeah, I don't even own a boat."

Yeah, conversations can get mighty bizarre when your brain scrabbles around trying to fill in the blanks!

[shiftless]

I'll admit it. I have a hard time talking to you because of your hearing problem. Work converstaions, I make an effort because it is work. But when I want to talk about who is dating whom and what I think of the boss I don't want to talk loudly or repeat it twice. And nothing kills my witty bon mots faster than "could you repeat that."

It's not that I don't like talking to you, except for all the "fucks", it is just harder to have normal converstion with you and I'm lazy. I don't know how loud I do need to talk so that you can comfortably hear me. The same thing with my Mom who is 87. I will not fully include her sometimes when I am talking to my sister because it is a pain in the ass and we have topics to cover. There, got that off my chest. I'm sorry. Really, I am.

[lieu]

Notice how lieu didn't even direct that comment toward you; talked right over your head! What a dick!

No, I mean that. That was kind of a fucking dicky comment.You and I don't know each other, obviously, but Bib and I do. You're wrong, but then he knows that already.

[Sicks Ate]

You and I don't know each other, obviously, but Bib and I do. You're wrong, but then he knows that already.

Ok. I'm ok with being wrong.

[Bibliovore]

You and I don't know each other, obviously, but Bib and I do. You're wrong, but then he knows that already.

No problem - I realise you were making a joke and I chose to treat it as such, but I'm feeling a mite sensitive today (as evinced by this thread) and was nevertheless irked. But no harm no foul.

[Llama Llogophile]

Suppose they did talk to you, but you had trouble understanding their banter? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rKYL0tW-Ek)

[alice_in_wonderland]

Well, I'm bummed on your behalf, but I'm not sure there's much to be done about it. I think if you try to start conversations with people that might help a bit, but if people are chatting about trivial non-work crap having to repeat it makes it sort of...less fun - like you've been caught faffing around when you should be working.

[lieu]

Well, I am sorry then. It was and any comment I'd make is always is meant to lighten and I am truly sorry if it missed its intended mark.

I get frustrated too by the degree to which my hearing loss prevents me from engaging in conversations I'd like to participate in. However, it's not yet moved to the point where those conversations in the workplace have been affected, primarily because for the most part the ambient noise in those situations is relatively low. If I'm in a bar or restaurant though, forget it, all I hear is one continuous, inseparable murmur. In short then, I can't offer much in the way of advicve but without question I can commiserate and hope you find some means of resolution.

[Bibliovore]

Well, I am sorry then. It was and any comment I'd make is always is meant to lighten and I am truly sorry if it missed its intended mark.

I get frustrated too by the degree to which my hearing loss prevents me from engaging in conversations I'd like to participate in. However, it's not yet moved to the point where those conversations in the workplace have been affected, primarily because for the most part the ambient noise in those situations is relatively low. If I'm in a bar or restaurant though, forget it, all I hear is one continuous, inseparable murmur. In short then, I can't offer much in the way of advicve but without question I can commiserate and hope you find some means of resolution.

Don't worry about it, and thanks again.

[Bibliovore]

I'll admit it. I have a hard time talking to you because of your hearing problem. Work converstaions, I make an effort because it is work. But when I want to talk about who is dating whom and what I think of the boss I don't want to talk loudly or repeat it twice. And nothing kills my witty bon mots faster than "could you repeat that."

It's not that I don't like talking to you, except for all the "fucks", it is just harder to have normal converstion with you and I'm lazy. I don't know how loud I do need to talk so that you can comfortably hear me. The same thing with my Mom who is 87. I will not fully include her sometimes when I am talking to my sister because it is a pain in the ass and we have topics to cover. There, got that off my chest. I'm sorry. Really, I am.

Well then damn, I guess the only thing for me to do is to retreat entirely from normal working interactions and go live in a hole someplace while hoping that my scintillating wit and effervescent good nature shine through in all of my written communications to the outside world.

Seriously, sometimes I wonder whether I'd be better off in a job where I only write to people rather than work face to face with them, but then I realise that'd just be giving up.

[bump]

Wish I could. I wear them in both ears and even when they're in, I have trouble following group conversations that are batted back and forth across the desks.

I doubt it's a conscious thing on their part. I have a friend from high school who's hearing impaired, and when I went out to eat with him and another friend of ours, I found that the evening got kind of awkward at times, because the hearing impaired guy wasn't picking up enough of the conversation to do the normal butting in and interjecting that's normally done, so we had to consciously make an effort to include him, or else we'd have unintentionally excluded him.

[Cat Whisperer]

You have my sympathy, too. I know it's not the same as having hearing problems, but I worked at a job where the people there just decided they didn't like me for whatever reason (or no reason), and the exclusion really is hard to take. Human beings are social animals; no one wants to be left out.

[kayaker]

I'm in a similar situation. My right ear has loss that is too great to improve with a hearing aid. My left ear is gradually getting worse. I spent 3k on a hearing aid last year (not covered by medical insurance) and I notice it is not helping as much lately. I've been putting off going back to have my hearing checked because I dread finding out the results.

However people at work do talk to me and go out of their way to make sure I'm involved in what is going on. Because I'm the boss (I own the business).

Away from work I often wear headphones and listen to my iPod rather than struggle to understand what people are saying.

[alice_in_wonderland]

I worked at a job where the people there just decided they didn't like me for whatever reason (or no reason),

Was it a tattoo parlor? Cus' if so I think I may have identified the problem...

[Rachellelogram]

Wow, overhearing housewife gossip is the least-interesting part of my workday. If I could install a filter so it never got through, I'd be 100% happier.

[Lionne]

Biblio, I'm in the exact same boat. Some days it bothers me more than others...all you can do is just keep trying. Don't let it get to you. I know it's incredibly demoralizing and tough.
At least you can wear headphones at work.

[Bibliovore]

I doubt it's a conscious thing on their part. I have a friend from high school who's hearing impaired, and when I went out to eat with him and another friend of ours, I found that the evening got kind of awkward at times, because the hearing impaired guy wasn't picking up enough of the conversation to do the normal butting in and interjecting that's normally done, so we had to consciously make an effort to include him, or else we'd have unintentionally excluded him.

Was it difficult for you to make that conscious effort to include him? Or did it become second nature over time?

[PandaBear77]

Hah! Take that! I gesticulate at you provocatively! *waggle, waggle, twiddle*

MrPanda did that last night ...


Mighta been a different kind of sign language, tho ...

[sandra_nz]

I think you need to look at what is inside and outside of your control.

What is outside your control: Other people's behaviour
What is inside your control: Your own behaviour

Could you do more to engage individuals in one-to-one conversation? For example, when you get to work, do you make an effort to walk past people's desks and ask them how they are today? On a Friday afternoon, ask someone what their plans for the weekend are, then ask them on Monday how those plans went.

By starting with a one-to-one conversation, you can often draw a nearby person into the conversation, just by making eye contact with them, or laughing in their direction in a 'did you hear that?!' way. Then there's three people having the conversation and it's not as much strain on you to keep the conversation going, whilst hopefuly still manageable for you to follow what's being said.

'm really not a sullen, sulky kinda guy - any Doper who's met me knows that - but this kind of shit grinds me down sometimes to the point where if I'm having a really bad day, I'll just jam on a set of headphones as a sort of "fuck you" to all of them, and seethe quietly as they chatter and laugh around me.

I know it's not fair but this action, even if it's just occassional, sends a message to your colleagues that you're not interested in engaging with them. And unfortunately the negative things we do have a lot more sway than the positive things we do. So you could attempt to follow ten conversations, then do the headphone thing once, and what people are going to remember is the headphone thing.

[bucketybuck]

As others have said, the thing about workplace banter is that it is casual conversation, just effortless babble that sorta happens as you devote most of your concentration on your work. You cant hear it, and if your co-workers want to include you in it they have to make a special effort to ensure your understanding. And if they have to put in an effort, it is no longer casual banter, it is full blown conversation. Which they dont have time for, they are working.

Its not your fault, but it isnt theirs either. They probably like you well enough, but they just cant be repeating every little thing they say, thats just how it is.

Frankly, perhaps you shouldnt take it so personally. Stop sitting there whinging that you are missing out and that it isnt fair, and that perhaps you should go and live in a hole. We all have strengths and weaknesses when it comes to social interaction, and so what if you miss out on meaningless banter. Perhaps you get more work done at those times, and then knock'em dead when it comes to straight up face to face conversation. Spare a thought for those who can hear everything but are so clueless they kill conversation with every word they speak, would you rather be one of them?

Would you rather be me? I have a very soft Irish accent, and have loads of fun taking the piss out of people in an office enviroment. But put me in a club with loud music, and nobody can hear a damn word I am saying. I try to say hello to a girl in a club and I just get those blank looks of "what did you say?".

You are railing against the world here, but you cant change it, all you can do is be more secure in yourself and focus on what you can do. Like I did. Now I get ignored by girls in pubs, instead of girls in nightclubs.

[Cat Whisperer]

Was it a tattoo parlor? Cus' if so I think I may have identified the problem...
Heh - you so funny. :D

[papergirl]

Is there one person in the group you can talk to candidly? Someone who would listen to you and understand the problem from your perspective, and be able to make sure that you are included more often?
If so, try it...sometime it only takes one person making small changes or comments to shape the behavior of the rest of the crew. It's a small group, and they're doing what they've been doing for a while--they need someone to shake up the dynamic a little, in a positive way.
Good luck. I feel for you.

[you with the face]

I feel for you too, Bibliovore. People can be thoughtless sometimes, but thoughtlessness is not the same thing as maliciousness, and getting them to change may be more of a pain than it's worth. Both to you and to them.

But if it bothers you enough, maybe you could mention how you feel to the co-worker you trust the most. I wouldn't say "Hey, I'm here, can you include me in your gossip sessions too?!" But casually mentioning that you feel left out of conversations might make them more sensitive in the future. Unless they're a jerk, that is, thus curing you of the need to chat with them anyway.

That said, being surrounded by all that banter would personally drive me crazy, even if I was on the receiving end of it. A little chit chat here and there, fine. But stretched out dialogue about whole lots of nothing, at work? You might not like what you're wishing for!

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

9.4 percent of the OP is the word 'fuck' (or some variation thereof).

Impressive ratio.


mmm

[dropzone]

I don't miss the banter because I tune most of it out because I can't hear it well, anyway. Part of my brain seems to monitor it because people get used to me saying, "Hey, wait a second. What was that?"