Fans of "The Wire" -- what didn't work for you? Open spoilers!

[AuntiePam]

Character, story line, plot development, actor -- whatever. What didn't work, in your opinion?

For me, it was Dee, early in season one, when he's being questioned about Gant's killing, and he wrote a sympathy letter to Gant's fictional family.

A couple things bug me. Dee beat a murder charge. Bunk and McNulty know Dee killed that guy in the 221 and they know he's Avon's nephew, obviously in the game, so why do they think he's anything but a run-of-the-mill thug? We know that Dee was upset about the murder, but Bunk and McNulty don't know. Yet they're treating him like an innocent bystander, a citizen.

It seems lame that they ask Dee to write the letter and lame that Dee writes the letter. And Larry Gilliard overdid it with the lip quivering, almost crying, etc. He'd recently been schooled by WeeBay (talking business in the car) and demoted by Avon to the low-rises. He should have been on his game with the cops.

The story line was redeemed a bit with the reveal that the photo was of Bunk's kids, not Gant's. It showed the detectives weren't above some subterfuge. But it was a long winding road to get there.

Anything disappoint you with the series?

[Chefguy]

That whole notion of "Hamsterdam". A ranking cop manages to put this together with the buy-in of all those officers, dealers and druggies and nobody finds out about it immediately?

[Peremensoe]

Selective enforcement policies aren't particularly unusual. The only real difference in Hamsterdam was that the terms and boundaries of the no-bust zone were explicitly given to the dealers. Kurt Schmoke had endorsed legalization in real life.

As for finding out, remember that the cops on the street didn't buy in to the real strategy--they thought the whole point was just to set up for mass busts. And given that it was all taking place in a destroyed, largely uninhabited neighborhood within a single precinct--not that much of a stretch. There's no real reason for any of those involved to go talking about it.

[The Universe Lashes Out]

When Snoop was driving Michael with the intention of going somewhere to shoot him, and Michael realized what was happening and said "pull over, I gotta take a piss." No way Snoop actually pulls over right then and there. Snoop is a cold-blooded killer, she would have made sure she had the upper hand on Michael at all times.

[MOIDALIZE]

The whole fake serial killer storyline from the last season. David Simon could have made his point about a lazy and corrupt media without resorting to something so fantastical.

And maybe D'Angelo should have been more on his game when he was taken into custody, but watch the First 48. It's kinda shocking how many murder suspects break down and confess when pressured during police interrogation, knowing the consequences of confessing, but it's an extremely stressful situation that can break your will.

[Tarwater]

That whole notion of "Hamsterdam". A ranking cop manages to put this together with the buy-in of all those officers, dealers and druggies and nobody finds out about it immediately?

This, by far. For a series that prided itself on being realistic, Hamsterdam is such a jarring thing to behold. Wherein previous seasons, Simon's storytelling was more naturalistic when it came to condemning the War on Drugs, with Hamsterdam he completely abandons any pretense of realism. There are a lot of great things that happen in Season 3, but for me, they suffer mightily from being surrounded by the flimsy, transparent drama of Colvin's absurd experiment.

I'll also throw in Gus from the newspaper in Season 5, for much the same reason. I don't know if it improves with additional viewings, but Gus seemed like a transparent stand-in for Simon himself, and a mouth-piece for his criticism of the editors at the Baltimore Sun. I knew coming into the series that Simon had a long-standing grudge against the editorial practices at the Sun, so it was hard for me to see Gus as anything but Simon putting himself into the story.

[DigitalC]

Brother Mouzzoune (I'm sure i spelled that wrong) was a cartoon character in a realistic story, completely out of place.

[monstro]

All of season 2. I don't know why. I just couldn't get into it.

It's been mentioned already, but the fake serial killer was entirely lame...a desperate attempt to give McNulty something to do. Every time the show went to that particular subplot, I'd kind of tune out. And I didn't buy Lester going along with it either. That made it worse.

[drastic_quench]

Brother Mouzzoune (I'm sure i spelled that wrong) was a cartoon character in a realistic story, completely out of place.

As was Omar. And Snoop.

[DxZero]

As was Omar. And Snoop.

Except Omar and Snoop were based on real documented people. Brother Mouzone, not so much. Not that it makes Omar and Snoop any less cartoonish, but it gives a least a whiff of credibility. The fact that both eventually used up their 9 lives by the end of the show only enhances the whiff.

[AuntiePam]

When Snoop was driving Michael with the intention of going somewhere to shoot him, and Michael realized what was happening and said "pull over, I gotta take a piss." No way Snoop actually pulls over right then and there. Snoop is a cold-blooded killer, she would have made sure she had the upper hand on Michael at all times.

Good point. Especially since Snoop trained him. Was it the opening scene of S4, when we're led to think that Snoop and what's his face are hunting Michael? Faked me right out.

I liked Brother Mouzone. They didn't overuse him, which is good.

[multimediac17]

By season five, I was more interested in the fate of the established characters rather than caring about new ones, so the whole newspaper storyline really passed me by. It's been a year since I watched the complete series for the first time and to be honest I can barely remember anything about the newspaper plot.

[Ibn Warraq]

I found the fake serial killer storyline and the plagiarist reporter storyline of season five preposterous.

[Peremensoe]

Gus seemed like a transparent stand-in for Simon himself, and a mouth-piece for his criticism of the editors at the Baltimore Sun. I knew coming into the series that Simon had a long-standing grudge against the editorial practices at the Sun, so it was hard for me to see Gus as anything but Simon putting himself into the story.

Well, what's wrong with that? Simon was a real reporter; seems like having him in the story is a point to the realism side of the scale.

[Indistinguishable]

The problem is the Mary Sueism of Gus's portrayal (especially in contrast to the portrayal of his bosses, who were entirely lacking in positive qualities of any sort); that was for me the worst part of the series, that all the greys it managed elsewhere turned black and white here.

[Tarwater]

Because Simon was unable to write himself objectively. With the exception of Brother Mouzone, Gus was the only character in the series who seemed out of place; he was a walking, talking cliché whose only purpose was to uncover Templeton's fabrications. He had no real flaws. His only failing as an editor was missing the significance of Omar's death, and he could hardly be blamed for that. If Simon had written himself into the story and kept his most significant blemishes intact, it would have made for an interesting story, but what we got instead was the archetypal crusader character out for justice.

[The Universe Lashes Out]

Well, what's wrong with that? Simon was a real reporter; seems like having him in the story is a point to the realism side of the scale.

I didn't find that storyline as sub-par as many people seem to, but I can understand the objections to it. Basically, David Simon had some issues with his bosses at the Sun, and painted a picture of Gus (himself) as an ideal newspaperman getting screwed over by corrupt bosses and plagiarizing reporters. Maybe a little too personal of an attack.

[Peremensoe]

Because Simon was unable to write himself objectively. With the exception of Brother Mouzone, Gus was the only character in the series who seemed out of place; he was a walking, talking cliché whose only purpose was to uncover Templeton's fabrications. He had no real flaws. His only failing as an editor was missing the significance of Omar's death, and he could hardly be blamed for that. If Simon had written himself into the story and kept his most significant blemishes intact, it would have made for an interesting story, but what we got instead was the archetypal crusader character out for justice.

See, that's much better put. ;)

Though I'll have to watch it again to know if I entirely agree.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

As was Omar. And Snoop.
Snoop was basically playing herself. They even used the actress's real name. I think that character was the scariest in the whole series, and I think that was largely because the actress was barely acting.

A lot of the characters were based on real people. Interesting bit of trivia: Melvin Williams, who played the Deacon on the show, was the real life inspiration for Avon Barksdale.

[alexandra]

Hamsterdam didn't bother me. Like the West Wing, it was a bit of fantasy politics, brilliantly depicted. Unlike the West Wing, reality kicked in soon enough.

I disliked Brother Mouzone, and I think the comparasion to Omar and Snoop is really unfair - those two characters were naturally integrated in the world of the Wire, whereas Mouzone just drove in one day to play the big bad.

The plagiarism storyline has been done better elsewhere (e.g., Shattered Glass) whereas there are arguably more important, though less sensationalist, storylines to tell about journalism which haven't been explored through fiction.

[Prox]

I always felt Marlo was a big step down from Avon & Stringer. Those two had believable motivations whereas Marlo just seemed evil for evil's sake. I know he's supposed to represent the new class of criminal, but it didn't work for me. Further, he didn't really seem that smart when doing things like bringing down the New Day Co-op. If it wasn't for Chris and Snoop, I don't think I would've bought Marlo's dominance in the last couple of seasons

[MOIDALIZE]

His name is his name!

[AuntiePam]

Marlo is probably the closest thing to a psychopath we had on the series. He was spellbinding. It would have been nice to have some background on him, but he just suddenly appeared. He's like that piece of true evil from Time Bandits. Loved him.

[Tamerlane]

His only failing as an editor was missing the significance of Omar's death, and he could hardly be blamed for that.

He also missed the even more significant death of Proposition Joe. Simon listed several other stories that Gus as City Editor missed as well, implying that his saintly portrayal covered a deeper, subtle failure. But I tend to agree that if that was the intent it was too subtle and said failures are easily passed off on the obvious villains at the top.

Season 5 was good TV IMO. It was just a relative failure compared to the rest of the show's run. The plagiarism wasn't a bad storyline per se - it was just ham-handed. Gus was too obviously perfect as above. The false serial killer plot I DO sort of buy, as I think Lester and McNulty have just the right personalities to fall into the nonsense - but it too was telegraphed a bit too broadly. In general I think it all works, but not in the seamless way earlier seasons did. It became more of a quality, but still standard Police Procedural, rather than a show that transcended the genre.

Still worth the slog though.

[Spoke]

The plagiarism storyline has been done better elsewhere (e.g., Shattered Glass) whereas there are arguably more important, though less sensationalist, storylines to tell about journalism which haven't been explored through fiction.

They could have told the story of how political pressure and good-old-boy politics affect the newsroom. For example when an editor is drinking buddies with a figure facing negative coverage.

Or they could have told the story of advertiser pressures brought to bear to try to bury stories.

[Indistinguishable]

What's all this everyone's saying about plagiarism? I don't remember any plagiarism in season 5; just fabrication.

[DoctorJ]

Brother Mouzzoune (I'm sure i spelled that wrong) was a cartoon character in a realistic story, completely out of place.
I always felt like Brother Mouzoune, Snoop, and Omar (and to a lesser extent maybe Stringer) were written as folk heroes (or anti-heroes). Their stories were told the way they'd be told down the road by people in the neighborhood or in the game, with personality quirks exaggerated and somewhat fantastical details relayed as fact. I thought this worked really well.

You might think of Hamsterdam the same way. It's easy to imagine the story of a cop who got canned for going a little overboard with selective enforcement getting filtered through ten years of retelling in cop bars until it becomes the legend of a crazy motherfucker named Bunny who just gave a whole section of town over to the dealers.

The fake serial killer didn't work for me at all. I also didn't like the way that every bit of McNulty's growth as a character just unraveled in Season 5. It also pulled me out a little bit every time a large group of drug dealers had a meeting in a hotel meeting room, though I have no doubt that it has happened.

[mr. jp]

I always felt Marlo was a big step down from Avon & Stringer. Those two had believable motivations whereas Marlo just seemed evil for evil's sake. I know he's supposed to represent the new class of criminal, but it didn't work for me. Further, he didn't really seem that smart when doing things like bringing down the New Day Co-op. If it wasn't for Chris and Snoop, I don't think I would've bought Marlo's dominance in the last couple of seasons

I thought this the first time I watched the series. Stringer and Barksdale seemed to have more character, and I didn't understand Marlo's motivation. The second time however, I loved Marlo. His motivation is street respect, being the king. And he works toward this coldly and ruthlessly. Two great scenes with him include the one with Bodie ("What's your name again? Bony, Biddy?", "You know my name", "Yeah... Now here's the thing.") and the already mentioned "My name is my name". In that second scene we see what Marlo truly cares about, and how he has been actually holding back the entire series.

If it wasn't for Chris and Snoop, he would've had some other qualified soldiers. I think Snoop was actually mostly just in training when the character was first introduced.

[Spoke]

Snoop was basically playing herself.

No kidding (http://www.accessatlanta.com/celebrities-tv/wire-actress-pleads-guilty-1087518.html?cxntlid=thbz_hm):

An actress who played a Baltimore drug gang assassin in HBO's "The Wire" pleaded guilty Monday to conspiring to distribute heroin, caught by a wiretap in a joint federal-state drug probe of an alleged drug gang.

Felicia "Snoop" Pearson, 31, pleaded guilty to conspiracy to distribute heroin, a day before her trial was set to begin.

[clarkstar]

No kidding (http://www.accessatlanta.com/celebrities-tv/wire-actress-pleads-guilty-1087518.html?cxntlid=thbz_hm):

how do you serve 5 years for 2nd degree murder? wtf is wrong with our justice system

[Diogenes the Cynic]

how do you serve 5 years for 2nd degree murder? wtf is wrong with our justice system
She was a juvenile.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

It's kind of surreal reading the article and seeing how "Snoop" was caught on a wire conspiring with a major Baltimore drug gang to buy and distribute heroin by a Baltimore PD special detail. The veil between fiction and reality is so thin there. I almost expected them to mention McNulty and Bunk.

[Prox]

I get that Marlo was very concerned with his name, but that seems like such a Hollywood motivation compared to Avon and Stringer who had actual goals to accomplish. It seemed Marlo made decisions more because it made the plot more interesting than any character reason. Maybe when I watch it again, it'll work better. After all, I'm clearly in the minority here.

And I agree the serial killer & newspaper wasn't too believable. All in all, I found the last season to be a pretty clear step down from the earlier seasons.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Marlo is has a pathological need for dominance. His decisions are all driven by that need. He doesn't care about the money, it's the need to dominate others. Even when he is a fully laundered, "legit," millionaire "businessman" (the thing that Stringer always wanted to be, but never achieved) he is bored by it, and has to go start a fight with some street kids get the ego rush that he needs.

All his decisions make perfect sense when you see that he isn't operating from a business motive, but from his need to dominate others. even trivial slights to him (like the security guard who "talks back" to him at the convenience store) are responded to with a ruthlessness that almost borders on panic. Disrespect is intolerable to him.

[quixotic78]

After all, I'm clearly in the minority here.
I'm with you too, though. Yeah, Marlo was cold-blooded, and he's a decent character, but kind of one-dimensional. Stringer Bell, on the other hand, was just an amazing character. Barksdale didn't do much for me as a character either, but he's hard to separate from Stringer, so he gets some reflected awesomeness.

What didn't work for me was how they just totally moved on from the Dock plot of Season 2 like it was a fart in church. I mean, yeah, the Greek and Vondas carried over, and we learned that is where Prop Joe (who is also awesome) gets his good dope right off of the boat, but other than that, they hardly mention that plot at all. I think they show a poster of Frank Sobotka at the end of Season 3, and some of the dockworkers are yelling at Andy Krawchick (sp) in Season 5, but that's it. It's a fine season -- not the best, but fine -- but it was like the show's producers were ashamed of it or something. Didn't sit well with me.

Oh, one other criticism, as long as I'm here. The first four seasons were amazing at drawing parallels between the bullshit on the street, in the police department, in the legal system, in schools, and in politics. It wasn't quite subtle; understated is a better word, but there for the taking. But in Season 5, they decide to just go balls out and have both McNulty and Templeton making the same shit up. It was lazy writing, the kind of bullshit serendipity that is totally out of place for a show of The Wire's caliber.

[Spoke]

I dunno, I actually found Marlo a more believable character than Stringer Bell. (Really? A heroin dealer is taking business classes to improve his operation? Really?)

Marlo's motivation of having his name "ring out" on the streets struck me as a much more likely motivator for somebody running this kind of operation, and his actions seemed more realistic to me than those of Stringer Bell.

Actually, though, Proposition Joe struck me as the most realistic kingpin of them all. Just the right mix of street smarts and business savvy.

[Peremensoe]

I think both Marlo and Stringer were credible characters. The drug business is big; plenty of room for figures such as these to arise, even if they're atypical. Stringer was based in part on Kenny Jackson, who did take classes at BCC while involved in illicit dealings.

[DMark]

Obvious to everyone here that it was truly an excellent series!
I have to admit that often I couldn't understand the dialogue - mumbling and slang - and some of it could have used some subtitles! I started to understand more as the series moved along, but it really was like learning a new language.

[Cyberhwk]

Stringer was based in part on Kenny Jackson, who did take classes at BCC while involved in illicit dealings.Steven Levitt (the Freakanomics guy) has mentioned that some of his previous research on the drug trade was greatly helped by some surprisingly professional bookkeeping.

[Maserschmidt]

Successfully passing off a photocopy machine as a lie detector. Apparently we should believe that street gangstas are so ignorant that they've never seen a copier in a school...or a rare trip to the library...a parole office...an emergency room...government building...or on TV or in a movie.

[MOIDALIZE]

Steven Levitt (the Freakanomics guy) has mentioned that some of his previous research on the drug trade was greatly helped by some surprisingly professional bookkeeping.

Sudhir Venkatesh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudhir_Alladi_Venkatesh), who did research on a Chicago drug gang, whose leader took a liking to him and supplied with the books. Venkatesh concluded that the structure of the drug gang wasn't much different from a McDonald's franchise.

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

Successfully passing off a photocopy machine as a lie detector. Apparently we should believe that street gangstas are so ignorant that they've never seen a copier in a school...or a rare trip to the library...a parole office...an emergency room...government building...or on TV or in a movie.

He wasn't a street gangsta he was a little boy who probably had very little exposure to his school or library, surrounded by 3 very serious detectives in suits and visibly scared about being caught committing a serious crime. For the record, I've never seen a photocopier in an emergency room and I've worked in a government building for 6 years and I don't think I've ever seen a photocopier there either.

[Kobal2]

The whole fake serial killer storyline from the last season. David Simon could have made his point about a lazy and corrupt media without resorting to something so fantastical.

This, on so many levels:
- Nobody notices somebody's messing with the crime scenes ? No beat cop, no murder detective, no crime lab ? Most notably when McNulty starts putting bite marks on the corpses. A qualified coroner alone would be able to tell they were done long past post-mortem.
- McNulty's bosses, who're all thoroughly used to his bullshit by now, never notice he's dicking them around on the time sheets & reports, and is basically slinging department assets all over the place ? Where did they learn to supervise ?
- and the worst one of all: Lester, who so far has been proven to be the smartest, deepest thinker and most collected individual on the whole show (and, again, one who's used to McNulty's insanity and where it always ends), not only is in on it, he's all too happy to jump on the Crazy Bus. Then he's all surprised when it turns to shit and a fake serial killer happens to cause some ripples a little farther than the police department ? Did his IQ drop 50 points between seasons ? Oh shit. He's got early onset Alzheimer's, hasn't he ?

[An Gadaí]

All of season 2. I don't know why. I just couldn't get into it.


That's interesting. I felt that Season 2 worked the strongest as a single season than any of the others. Although I suspect on repeat viewing that Season 4 is better.

[Maserschmidt]

He wasn't a street gangsta he was a little boy who probably had very little exposure to his school or library, surrounded by 3 very serious detectives in suits and visibly scared about being caught committing a serious crime. For the record, I've never seen a photocopier in an emergency room and I've worked in a government building for 6 years and I don't think I've ever seen a photocopier there either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN7pkFNEg5c

Little boy?? I think your memory might be a bit fuzzy. And even big gangstas go to school as little kids, and for a couple of weeks every September.

[An Gadaí]

Successfully passing off a photocopy machine as a lie detector. Apparently we should believe that street gangstas are so ignorant that they've never seen a copier in a school...or a rare trip to the library...a parole office...an emergency room...government building...or on TV or in a movie.

That's a deliberate nod to the same ruse being used in Homicide: Life On The Streets but I think it's originally an urban legend.

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN7pkFNEg5c

Little boy?? I think your memory might be a bit fuzzy. And even big gangstas go to school as little kids, and for a couple of weeks every September.

I watched that last night before posting. He looks like a little boy to me.

[Maserschmidt]

I watched that last night before posting. He looks like a little boy to me.

<shrugs> The actor was 19 when it was filmed, so YMMV. Anyway, the thread is about what didn't work for me, and that didn't.

I also agree the serial killer plot line was silly. I liked the general idea of faking something and getting a reporter hooked, but there had to be a more subtle way to pull that off.

[Terraplane]

I agree with everybody who thought the serial killer storyline was weak. But it was almost worth it for the scene where Bunk brings Lester in to talk some sense into McNulty. Watching Bunk go from this smug "Lester's gonna set him straight now!" look to disbelief to outrage is one of my favorite scenes in the series.

[AuntiePam]

Successfully passing off a photocopy machine as a lie detector. Apparently we should believe that street gangstas are so ignorant that they've never seen a copier in a school...or a rare trip to the library...a parole office...an emergency room...government building...or on TV or in a movie.

I can believe it. Might be an urban legend, but it was either in the book or the commentaries that it really happened.

I've seen plenty of gadgets and didn't know what they were or how they worked. Watch Repo Games sometime -- you'll be surprised at how much people don't know.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN7pkFNEg5c

Little boy?? I think your memory might be a bit fuzzy. And even big gangstas go to school as little kids, and for a couple of weeks every September.
He was an 8th grader.

[An Gadaí]

I can believe it. Might be an urban legend, but it was either in the book or the commentaries that it really happened.


http://www.snopes.com/legal/colander.asp

[Maserschmidt]

Hey, I can buy the possibility that there are 13-year-olds who not only have never seen a copier in person or on TV, but who would be fooled into thinking it's a lie detector. But that's a small universe to me, since it's not a new or obscure gadget.

[marshmallow]

I'm curious why some people thought Snoop was unrealistic. It's been awhile since I've seen the show but I can't think of anything too unusual about her. Is it because she's a girl?

[JohnT]

The entire season five plot about the fake serial killer.

[JohnT]

To me, the one scene that didn't work for me was Omar's testimony. Everything was fine until he was being examined by Levy when the following exchange (paraphrased from memory) takes place:

Levy: "So you just take money from drug dealers, that's how you make your living?"
Omar: "Yeah, and so do you!" (Da-da-DAAAAA!)
Levy (apparently gobsmacked that somebody came back with this completely original insight): "Uh, what?"
Omar: (launches into long-winded explanation that everybody profits from The Game)

I just don't buy that an experienced lawyer like Levy would come CLOSE to being thrown by that comment, nor would he allow Omar to go into a detailed explanation of how Levy is just like him.

[Jas09]

Hm. Yeah, it was probably unrealistically sloppy cross. I do think Levy was taken aback by Omar's charm and banter (both on direct and at the start of the cross). Here is the exchange (taken from IMDB):

Maurice 'Maury' Levy: You are amoral, are you not? You are feeding off the violence and the despair of the drug trade. You are stealing from those who themselves are stealing the lifeblood from our city. You are a parasite who leeches off...
Omar: Just like you, man.
Maurice 'Maury' Levy: ...the culture of drugs. Excuse me? What?
Omar: I got the shotgun, you got the briefcase. It's all in the game though, right?

Certainly wasn't a "detailed explanation". I also give it a pass because its one of the shows Crowning Moment of Awesomeness, IMO.

[AuntiePam]

I give the Omar-Levy courtroom scene a pass too. I like that the writers occasionally serviced the fans, even if it was improbable or heavy-handed. Like the showdown between Omar and Brother Mouzone in the alley. "I see you favor a Glock." (or something) There's a YouTube video with Enrico Morricone music in the background for that one. And the scene where Omar's just standing around and someone drops a bag of drugs from a second-story window.

[Tamerlane]

- and the worst one of all: Lester, who so far has been proven to be the smartest, deepest thinker and most collected individual on the whole show (and, again, one who's used to McNulty's insanity and where it always ends), not only is in on it, he's all too happy to jump on the Crazy Bus.

No, see - that's the part I buy. Your other complaints are reasonable and...well..this one is as well, but I disagree ;).

Lester is a little smarter, rather less dysfunctional version of McNulty. But he is still a McNulty - as cops the two are very similar at base. Years ago he was busted down to desk-duty for taking his job too seriously. Then McNulty resurrects his investigative career and we see, season by season, that he becomes increasingly reinvested in being "good police" to the point that he becomes just as obsessive as McNulty at getting shit done and to hell with the the system that tries to impede him for reasons of bureaucracy, politics, incompetence, or just disinterest. That he falls to McNulty's level of desperate nuttery ( but delusional, thinks he can refine it with his smarts ) strikes me as an entirely believable character arc.

[An Gadaí]

The "shit" scene with McNulty and Bunk, while kinda funny, was ridiculous.

[JohnT]

"fuck"

[Marley23]

The whole fake serial killer storyline from the last season. David Simon could have made his point about a lazy and corrupt media without resorting to something so fantastical.
I regretfully agree with this. And it's not just that the fake serial killer was unrealistic, it's the way the McNulty-Freamon scam dovetailed so perfectly with Templeton's fake stories for the paper. I know Templeton was an analog of Jayson Blair, so that wasn't a problem. It was hard for me to buy cops faking a serial killer to make a point, but the combination of the two is where it really became unbelievable. (Even so, I was more disappointed with Lester for going along wit the plot than I was with the series for departing from reality.) Hamsterdam was somewhat plausible by comparison.

Brother Mouzzoune (I'm sure i spelled that wrong) was a cartoon character in a realistic story, completely out of place.
Seconded. I know some people here find Mouzzone awesome, but his appearances were jarring to me. I will admit that NOI guys are sort of caricaturiffic even in real life.

Because Simon was unable to write himself objectively.
Simon only wrote the first and last episode of season five, although as always, he was the showrunner and created the stories.

Gus was the only character in the series who seemed out of place; he was a walking, talking cliché whose only purpose was to uncover Templeton's fabrications. He had no real flaws.
I've seen Dopers say this a bunch of times, and I still disagree 100 percent. Gus was a very nice guy and almost any reporter would have wanted to have him as an editor, but he missed all the important stories and he didn't even when he become suspicious of Templeton's fraud, he didn't say anything and didn't act until it was too late. And for the most part he did not miss the big stories because he was incompetent. It's because those stories that the newspaper would not look at for systemic reasons, and I think that was Simon's real point. It's illustrated with the debate over the education story. People here keep forgetting that Gus whiffs on the important stuff, and I don't think that's a failing on Simon's part. I think it's a testament to his skill in creating complete characters. The publisher of the paper is a complete douchebag just like a couple of minor Wire characters have no redeeming qualities, but most of the major characters are better fleshed out.

To me, the one scene that didn't work for me was Omar's testimony.
Yeah, I think we have to acknowledge that Omar's answers in this scene are just too good. But I'm going to give this scene a free pass because it's modern day Shakespeare. It's that good. It's perhaps the greatest scene of the series and the distillation of why The Wire is great.

[quixotic78]

The "shit" scene with McNulty and Bunk, while kinda funny, was ridiculous.
Oh man, I so agree with this (except, as pointed out, it's fuck). It's a bullshit scene that would never even come close to happening, and people hold it up as some awesome TV. It's just Hollywood fakery to me.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I've had conversations like that. They weren't really talking. The scene was essentially silent. The "fucks" were just a way to externalize the thinking process for the audience.

[Marley23]

I don't think anyone likes the "fuck" scene because it's realistic, and I agree it isn't. They like it because it's funny. To tell you the truth that scene didn't make any impression on me the first time I saw it.

[An Gadaí]

Oh yeah the fuck scene, although Bunk does say shit in it too IIRC. :)

[Kobal2]

Oh man, I so agree with this (except, as pointed out, it's fuck). It's a bullshit scene that would never even come close to happening, and people hold it up as some awesome TV. It's just Hollywood fakery to me.

I believe I've read (either here or on TVTropes) that Simon put this scene in because of an interview he'd done with a detective who was dismayed at his coworkers' language and said something along the lines of "in a couple years, you'll have investigations where every single spoken word is the f bomb". Simon found it funny and made it happen.
So, yeah, it's exaggerated and caricatural, but it's not complete fuckery. Sorry, fakery.

[MOIDALIZE]

So, yeah, it's exaggerated and caricatural, but it's not complete fuckery. Sorry, fakery.

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit.

[Stoid]

The slang. I was unable to understand anything that anyone was saying, so I never got past episode one.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I think the slang was one of the best things about it. I never had trouble understanding it except maybe for Snoop once in a while. She was kind of the Boomhauer of the show.

[alexandra]

To me, the one scene that didn't work for me was Omar's testimony. Everything was fine until he was being examined by Levy when the following exchange (paraphrased from memory) takes place:

Levy: "So you just take money from drug dealers, that's how you make your living?"
Omar: "Yeah, and so do you!" (Da-da-DAAAAA!)
Levy (apparently gobsmacked that somebody came back with this completely original insight): "Uh, what?"
Omar: (launches into long-winded explanation that everybody profits from The Game)

I just don't buy that an experienced lawyer like Levy would come CLOSE to being thrown by that comment, nor would he allow Omar to go into a detailed explanation of how Levy is just like him.

He said "I got the shotgun, you got the briefcase. It's all in the game, though, right?"

That is by no means a longwinded explanation, it's an explanation with pith and wit.

If it were Hollywood, it would go on for about 5 minutes and involve stirring music and table banging.

General point: I think we need to allow for the fact that The Wire is a TV show, and if they used no dramatic conceits at all it'd probably be very difficult to watch.

EDIT: I totally missed that Jas09 already made my point. :smack:

[madmonk28]

I thought all of season 5 was weak:
The fake serial killer, I could have bought this if they had taken longer to get to that point. If I was Jimmy, I would have gone to the press and told the world that budget cuts meant that they weren't investigating the rowhouse murders, if that didn't work then fake a serial killer.

The newsroom, it was clear Simon was just sticking his finger in the eye of his former bosses who were all more cartoonishly evil and stupid than any of the murderous drug dealers. Also, Gus was the only heroic and noble character in a sea of complex believable characters.

[Marley23]

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit.
I HATED this, and it seemed to get more and more ridiculous as the series went on.

The slang. I was unable to understand anything that anyone was saying, so I never got past episode one.
This is one of the things that makes The Wire what it is: the characters rarely step out of the scene and explain things for the benefit of the audience. You either follow along from context, or you get confused and figure it out later.

[Capitaine Zombie]

Season 5 is seriously inferior to all the other seasons:
-Mc Nulty is rebooted, he is exactly the same guy he was in season 1. All his character development over the last 4 seasons (which also made possible focusing on other characters) was thrown out, for no good reason.
-Templeton (the hack journalist guy, I believe that's his name) has absolutely zero positive traits. It could have been interesting if he had been shown as a rather incompetent guy under pressure (either self built pressure or coming from the top) trying to cope in a very shitty way. No, he's just an ass through and through. And brownnoses as hell as well. Even Clay Davis was likable, despite being a caricature of a corrupt politician.

Apart from that, the two worst moments of the Wire in all the other seasons:
- Mouzoune Vs Omar alley scene: Omar is great because he is a walking folk legend. Mouzoune belongs to a comic book. Having those two trying to out-awesome one another on a show that's based on realism hurt the believability of the whole series
-Stringer Bell's death: all that for this?

[AllShookDown]

This is pretty minor but, even though the makeup artist did a pretty good job on his face, there were times when Andre Royo (Bubbles) was revealed to be way too buff to be a homeless junkie. The guy had the thighs of a speed skater.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

According to Royo, a real junkie once approached him during filming and offered him a hit, saying that it looked like Royo needed it worse than he did. Royo calls that his "street Oscar."

Yes, he looked a little too healthy to be a junkie if you examined him closely, but he sold the character enough with his acting that you didn't really notice it (at least I didn't).